no. First of all, there hasn´t been a single succesful “wowkiller” and that monicker exists only in the audience´s mind anyway, noone in the industry bothers with such nonsense. Wow will be killed by time and it has way more than twice the people that ever installed GW2 as paying SUBSCRIBERS almost a decade after launch. Anyways, GW2 is fine, your prediction is utterly false though. The mmorpg market is struggling. WoW made the genre appealing to the masses of players, launched marketing outside the usual target audience, had a large fan base to carry over from other games of Blizzard´s franchise and didn´t have any strong competitors. The market today is sated, no, it is bursting from mmorpg. Single player or “normal” multiplayer games have also improved a lot in recent years when it comes to story telling mechanics, no mmorpg can rival that by nature as they cannot concentrate on the experience of a single person. MMORPG will struggle more in upcoming years than they do now overall, GW2 will just be one of many.
Of course Guild Wars 2 will be one of many. But I think the OPs point is many of that many will be looking to Guild Wars 2 for guidance, in the way that many WoW clones looked to WoW for guidance.
No one is saying that Guild Wars 2 is going to corner the market. But people are saying that the changes Guild Wars 2 have brought to the genre will help pave the way forward.
No, OP meant exactly that, at least by how he phrased and wrote. You are right though on GW2´s evolutionary influence on the genre (well, TSW has similar elements, argueable which developer team came up with them first, GW2 is better known at least) , you see the first new games already adopting GW2´s combat mechanics.
no. First of all, there hasn´t been a single succesful “wowkiller” and that monicker exists only in the audience´s mind anyway, noone in the industry bothers with such nonsense. Wow will be killed by time and it has way more than twice the people that ever installed GW2 as paying SUBSCRIBERS almost a decade after launch. Anyways, GW2 is fine, your prediction is utterly false though. The mmorpg market is struggling. WoW made the genre appealing to the masses of players, launched marketing outside the usual target audience, had a large fan base to carry over from other games of Blizzard´s franchise and didn´t have any strong competitors. The market today is sated, no, it is bursting from mmorpg. Single player or “normal” multiplayer games have also improved a lot in recent years when it comes to story telling mechanics, no mmorpg can rival that by nature as they cannot concentrate on the experience of a single person. MMORPG will struggle more in upcoming years than they do now overall, GW2 will just be one of many.
GW1 players were teased for quite some time before GW2 with possible rewards for their loyality. the 50/50 was a HUGE undertaking, in that time you could get thousands of points in GW2 – lots. And the skins you unlocked were rather disappointing and probably not the big shiny people expected when transfering to the new game. How about: Remove those kitten leaderboards of yours that serve no purpose whatsoever and leave GW1 veterans and anet alone?
OP you have a problem with people playing the game in your ’’favorite’’ area? Boy do I have some rough news for you about this thing called life….
if you want to chastise OP you may want to reread what he actually wrote as you are apparently not getting what this thread is all about… like AT ALL.
The “I have limited time” argument is a fallacy here. As long as there are new incoming LS achievements, it simply does not matter whether you completed the one before. There will always be enough to do to earn points, in fact, apparently more than you have time for. Only people who really HAVE a lot of game time will be possibly feeling the pressure to complete each and every mini-achievement of a LS as they may have run out of achievements to do already.
it is very frustrating, but the Belcher´s bluff achievements section gives you a big amount of points on the other hand. Seems like a fair trade. That dude really had me banging my head on my desk. Take a break, come back with a more relaxed mind. The other grandmasters were so easy to beat I only bothered to understand the strategy of this game (yes, there is quite some luck involved with Adnul, I admit that) when I ran into the norn brick wall. Give it some more tries here and there, stop when you are too frustrated. Eventually, you will beat him.
Is this supposed to be a good news? No one liked them… and i can assure you that for lev40+ EVERYONE will be skipping these two. So this is just two additional fractals everyone will skip like they skip dredge/shaman/cliffside. GG.
actually, most people I did them with liked them for being more thought out and harder than the usual GW2 content.
a few … do not ruin a community, those are inevitable, especially on the internet. Block annoying people, report abusive ones. And do whatever you like in the zone, you don´t have to care about their zerg schedule at all. Problem solved.
They cannot rush through the dragons´ main story. If all of them had made a major appearances or even been defeated by now, major parts of the game would be “outdated” to most people storywise. I imagine there is quite some percentage of folks who haven´t even done the first dragon. Guess it will take years till we have seen all dragons – which is ok as long as they insert a living story here and there actually reminding you of the big picture.
The etymology of the word has nothing to do with distances.
why no crossbow, why no melee spear, why no chain-whip? They had to release a set of finite skills/weapons on release. I am sure we will see new weapon skillsets in the future, but very probably no lance, it is, as was already pointed out, an equestrian weapon. You probably mean some kind of footman polearm. Sure, why not.
I don´t know about you, but I certainly haven´t cast a single spell in my life nor do I know any mages personally, so I have no idea what casting a spell would “feel like” in real life. As for different games, well, they are different, why would GW2 have to be the same?
It is really tiring that everything someone doesn´t agree with gets the “unfair” monicker. No, it is not unfair. Unfair: Player A gets some advantage by the game mechanic, like a 50 % bonus to damage, when fighting a champion solo, Player B, playing the same class with the same build, does not. It may be unfortunate for you that you cannot singlehandedly kill everything in this game, but that does not make the game unfair or bad.
“I am casual and hence feel treated unfairly” seems to become the main argument for any demand in changing the game. Those achievements reward a lot things. People who stick to the game and log in often. People who supported anet in GW1 times. People who keep the pvp aspect of the game alive. People who go and try things new to them. People who try the harder things in GW2. Someone who invests more time, skill, dedication, whatever into the game gets more rewards… is that such an exotic concept? Do we need game socialism now? This game rewards about anything with AP safe standing still, you will get to your next reward tier sooner or later. Not to mention those rewards are not game changers worthy of note.
Last time I checked pve made up more than 80% of acheivement points so if you mostly pvp or wvw you are going to be way behind. Then dailies+temporary content make up more than half the the achievement points not sure how that takes skill…
I guess it makes sense to further your own argument to take “skill” out of my post and forego any other quality like sheer time in game I also mentioned.
I hate it That you get to many points for Daily quest .. I dont want to get forced to do my dailys because they are boring . Start to do some real challenges where people earn some more Ap for it
Then I have to really ask what are you actually doing in this game. The daily achievement offers a wide variety of activities, 5of those are usually completed almost automatically. Kill x enemies, veterans, champions – don´t you fight in open world in case you play pve. deconstruct x items – don´t you collect and deconstruct for materials? gather x materials – do you run past all resource nodes (which the maps are abundant with), kill x in WvW/pvp – are you avoiding all fights in case you are a pvp player? The only thing that pushes you a bit are things required in a specified area, well, then play your time there, not a big deal with level scaling as it is in GW2. Sorry, I just don´t buy it that anyone has a playstyle that would totally bypass any of those activities.
(edited by Algreg.3629)
“I am casual and hence feel treated unfairly” seems to become the main argument for any demand in changing the game. Those achievements reward a lot things. People who stick to the game and log in often. People who supported anet in GW1 times. People who keep the pvp aspect of the game alive. People who go and try things new to them. People who try the harder things in GW2. Someone who invests more time, skill, dedication, whatever into the game gets more rewards… is that such an exotic concept? Do we need game socialism now? This game rewards about anything with AP safe standing still, you will get to your next reward tier sooner or later. Not to mention those rewards are not game changers worthy of note.
it is not crappy, but rather well done for a MMORPG environment. That being said, they are completely overdoing it. This is the second LS in a row that relies heavily on jumping puzzles and other Super Mario stuff. While these things are nice for a change in small dosages, atm, I cannot say we are really playing a rpg type of game. Anet, please no more jp hell in upcoming LS for a while.
First of all, I do not intend this to be derogatory in any way. It is human psychology which is neither bad nor good, but just is. PvE is usually about comparatively easy perpetual gratification without great risks of losing invested time. That is appealing to most human beings and the reason why MMORPGs are really addictive games. PvP is a completely different animal, competitiveness is the key element here. Which not everyone enjoys. Just look at sports and see how many people are active in any given discipline there and the comparatively small number that enters competitions, even on a hobby level. Regardless of small rewards in a PvP enviroment, for most people the high probablity of losing will make it unappealing. Which is fine, btw.
Kudos to anet for obviously developing a twisted sense of humor. After all the complaints during Sky Pirates putting yet another achievement into OS. Just hilarious. Part of me thinks “oh man, it is called an achievement for a reason”, another part “get that jp out of there to stop the incessant whining every second day”. But I have to admit, anets pigheadedness in this case really makes you laugh.
Greifing is when they camp and never let anyone through. Especially when people are there for the achiement. Like the Cache being in the Oblivion. And I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why I’m seeing people camp the JP. I’ve never seen anyone just camp and troll people in any of the WvW JPs untill this point. This is what I call griefing. If it wasn’t for the fact Anet put something unrelated to WvW in WvW was a mistake on their part. But should people camp and troll people when they know they are there for the cache. I was sitting on a ledge because one server was camping the entire JP and we weren’t the only server waiting for them to give up and go home the third server was waiting as well. This is trolling/griefing just for the sake of it. And no large WvW group is going to help people go through the JP. I’ve asked. But woah unto me to think people have at least some decency. I don’t think what they did was right. Not during this time period anyway.
that is still not griefing, still being a pvp zone. Of cause people took advantage when the cache was put in there. They knew there would be a lot more activity there and the opportunity for easy kills. And yes, it makes sense to do this, leveling your rank and collecting achievements. If some group was camping there for hours, well, you gotta ask the question why in the entire time you did not organize a group of like-minded people to deal with them. That would be an adequate response in a pvp zone instead of pulling the griefing card.
if that was true, then they´d do the scavenger hunt, craft the thing and leave again, nothing gained there.
the real issue is this
item salvage is an infinite way to gather as many achiev points as you want
people with loads of gold can simply purchase their way into 15k AP’s like thisAs long as they do not adjust these kinds of things it will never work properly.
and was this gold gifted by the magical anet fairy or has it been “achieved” somehow, even if it was via credit card and “grinding” the office? I guess most complaints about the new reward system boil down to: hey, those guys over there have more than I have, only my MO is supposed to work well, the system must be wrong.
(edited by Algreg.3629)
even though I like their ambition, a month seems like a more reasonable time frame. Players don´t feel rushed or start planning their private activities around a computer game, the developers don´t risk a creative burn out that fast, not to mention better quality control.
everything in this game is an achievement apparently, even chopping trees and with points from daylies, even perpetually so. There is virtually no style of play that does not come along with a steady influx of achiement points. No, it is not a treadmill. If you hate jp (much like I do), well, kill some people in WvW, get dungeon completions, whatever.
why should this game ever raise the level cap? Your character level scales according to content in most parts of the game, raising the max level would barely change anything save a metric ton of extrawork for developers rebalancing builds and abilities.
God forbid there was anything hard in GW2 that would require some improvement of gaming skill, an outrage.
Real life racism is – rightfully – scorned because it ascribes inferior traits to a certain type of people while there is no correlation between those traits and the ethnicity in question. In Gw2 you have different species who ARE very probably quite different in character, temperament and qualities. That is one thing. More important: Ficticious character aren´t necessarily an extension of the author. GW2 depicts a world with interspecies conflict and mistrust, of cause that includes derogatory remarks between members of different species. Accusing the game of racism is like that nonsense of accusing Mark Twain books of racism because of the frequent use of the n-word while the author was a crusader against racism and slavery.
I really don´t want to debate GW2´s quality, but what you like about games is really about personal taste in the end. This is just an opinion, a blogger is just one singular voice, even more so when it comes to games where the audience is often as informed and invested as the journalists. There haven´t been many big launches last year anyway, TSW would have been a great contender with it´s deep game design if it had GW2´s polish, but sadly…. well, you know.
I disagree with OP in all points, but still think anet should remove WvW from world completion to end those daily tiring, atrocious entitlement whining threads finally. I mean that as sincerly as condescending, yes.
discrimination is a big word thrown around at the slighest inconvience these days… no, you cannot be discriminated against for a certain playstyle in a video game. That being said, most of your points have nothing to do with roleplaying at all:
Guild Halls – only relevant to roleplay as being a private environment
Epic end game stories and expansions – as far as I understood, roleplaying in MMORPG is about acting your role together with other roleplayers, what has the PvE part of the game to do with that?
No promise of new playable races or classes – absolutely nothing to do with roleplay as that is about impersonating “real” individuals, not an assortment of stats.
Denying new areas until ‘PVP’ is perfected – so how many empty maps do you need as a stage to use the chatbox?
Removing important cultural aspects of GW from the game to create a more ‘unified’ and ‘Culturally sensitive’ community – like what?
Lore updated so slowly – no, lore is rich in GW2 and draws a lot from its predecessor, also, I was under the impression as a roleplayer you start creating your own lore.
No promise of an official RP server for the thousands of roleplayers – roleplay all you like anywhere, most people certainly don´t want an anet bad renaissance english-police controlling player dialogue – and I doubt anet employees are really eager to do this themselves.
Meh screw it, this game isn’t worth the aggravation.
Cant tank here
Cant heal here
wow, that trinity beast sure seems hard to kill if it can wiggle its way into a topic like this.
Shields, like all “weapons”, are hookpoints for skills. If you haven´t figured that out by now, obviously you haven´t grasped the game mechanics yet and probably never will.
yeah, by now it seems rather probable either a really young kid or a feeble attempt at humor.
either you do not read the responses or you actively do not want to understand what is written in them. Here in short form:
a) there is no xp/loot stealing. Contributors to a kill tag for the xp/loot and it is NOT split amongst them.
b) even downleveled to area you are more powerful than a player at level
most of all, the vast majority of the open world pve is ridiculously easy. If you keep failing as dramatically as you describe, you really must be doing something fundamentally wrong. Check your relevant class forum section, check gw2wiki, google for your class and builds, would be a good starting advice.
ok, I left the game several months ago because the overall difficulty setting really was too “casual” for my taste, but when I see a post like this it really itches to comment. Is this the daily/weekly we need trinity-post? What the heck does it matter what WoW does? GW2 is a nicely crafted game, the monicker mmorpg does not imply every game has to be the same? GW2 is not broken, well done and enjoyable by quite a lot of people. Your “criticism” is along the line of “Super Mario games allow me to jump onto turtles to destroy them, GW2 is broken because it does not feature this mechanic”. If your mindset is so narrow it can only fathom the mechanics of a single computer game, a reasonable advice would be “play that game”.
typical leftist broken argument: No, it were only “not fair” if “rich” people would get stuff only for their quality of being rich, while in reality, they get more because they pay more. “poor” players don´t get less because they are “poor”, but because they pay less. Also, most well-to-do people are partially that because they do not throw away money according to every whim. Lastly, noone keeps you from qualifying for a higher real life income, if you want to have more money to spend on a game, well, go and get it.
no, it means different countries and/or geo-political regions have different systems of taxation.
no, it doesn´t. In fact, removing that stale abomination is the only thing GW2 did right.
welcome to the “casual” gaming market of today, where even the tiniest amount of challenge&reward, be it as small as logging in and completing a handful of very, very easy tasks, will cause some people to shout “unfair!”. I guess MMORPGs future is really bleak in our entitlement society.
quitting the game because ONE daily event failed? Wow, GW2 really has a causual audience.
as the guy who named his marsh drake Fishbreath.
Actually, that makes you appear as rather creative and tongue in cheek as opposed to some examples given here.
I have seen too many XXDr33zzad D0 Urd3nsXX over the years to give a kitten. Usually I avoid to team with them individually, because there seems to be a tendency for them to either be wanna be elitist jerks who fail miserabely or really clueless, probably kids. Don´t care if they are in a group I join.
Depends on your definition of casual. If you’re pushing for the top content (high level fractals) the game demands you log in and play daily both for the daily and the fractal dailies (not to mention doing dragon chests for rares to break down for ectos). Some wouldn’t call that requirement ‘casual’
I think it is very casual. It is addictive, but not “hardcore”, log in once a day and complete very easy tasks, you may miss one day or another, but that does not really bother you as a casual player. Ther e are no difficult missions to accomplish, it is almost autosucceed mode. And better players (no, I do not think of them as better human beings, just as better computer players) do not have any advantage over you, there are no raids to be farmed efficiently to force rare drops and things like this. GW2 invented casual grind and I am pretty sure they will expand that model in upcoming months.
yes, and in today´s gaming market, it has to be. Sadly for some, including me, good for others. There is just no way around it, the costs of developing and running big games, especially online massive multiplayer ones, are just too great for any other target audience model to succeed. And the invention of a casual friendly grind system now is an ingenious move from a business point of view.
(edited by Algreg.3629)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Combat-Depth-where-is-it/first#post1606362
Many people think trinity is less engaging and deep, but they probably haven’t played GW. The decision to marginalize trinity roles in this game is solely a marketing demographic decision to pull in WoW players and people on the fringes of mmo gaming looking for something new.
So with a healer class in GW1, i had to prot with guardian, remove hexes, rely on the warrior to backline for me, all kinds of things…here, i zerg, mash my cooldowns, if i die, i get picked back up again through down state revive( which is a terribly shallow system and needs to be gutted altogether) all the while i’m dodging red circles. There were no red circles in GW1, you truly had to watch the field to be a good player.
The problem is two fold:
1. Encounters and instances don’t encourage or require much strategy, have much mechanical depth, or really accent any clever usage of skills or technique in the combat system. They design around gimmicks like the ghost buster fight in AC, which only serves to marginalize the depth of the combat system. No content really encourages mechanical depth in certain team specs and in the end, there are flavor of the month balance issues like Mesmer and Warrior teams stomping content when at the same time, Engineers and Rangers are booted from runs. The combat is imbalanced, bosses have too much hp but not enough real challenge.
2. The roles that we do have are extremely homogenized. There are no healers that save you from death, no tangible way to control aggro with melee characters, no deep synergy between classes. What we have is revive, mash cooldowns, throw out DPS and homogeneous buffs while you dodge. If you’re in trouble, click your insta-heal button, no team play required beyond revive. You all just DPS. No class or role is individually effective or integral because the system is inherently homogeneous.
maybe I romanticize GW1 now, but as far as I remember, it was never tank ´n´ spank-heavy. What set it apart though compared to its heir were interesting mission mechanics, you really had to be on your toes in a lot of those story missions at least. And of cause the build flexibility you mentioned – the various parts of the game actually forced you to come up with new build ideas as things that worked in area A failed miserabely in area B. Still, I think GW2´s system could pull that off, but, quite naturally, neither is the company the same it was 7 years ago, nor are computer players. Complex games do not fare well today with casual and accessibily written all over the industry – that is not inherently bad, but really unfortunate for players who liked old school challenging games. It is not the lack of trinity that is disappointing for GW1 players, but the overall design choices.
The more I think of it, the more I come to the conclusion that GW2´s problem regarding combat is that it is a transition product towards possible next generation games. Trinity is really stale by now, as is 1-7 rotation, GW2 introduced elements of single player action rpg without going all the way. It has left behind meaningful character building to a heavy degree and other MMORPG elements, but did not dare yet to become a full “gamepad rpg”, if you will. It really is a weird beast trapped between two worlds, not really good in any of them – neither is it strong in the static old rpg elements like character building, complicated and fun “raid mechanics” nor is it great as a skill based combat game.
Trinity will not come to this game, it would take an enormous effort to rebuild characters and classes from scratch. Why do trinity addicts need to start a thread about this every week. All arguments have been exchanged many times over anyway. Yes, GW2 combat can be extremely boring, but that has quite different reasons than a lack of trinity – which would make the battles even more boring. And stop selling that concept as “strategy”. It is cookie cutter builds, rotating cookie cutter abilities in a cookie cutter order, all memorized from doing the same raid many times over. There is rarely strategy in the trinity approach, knowing what to do beforehand to counter rigid AI behaviour is simply memorizaiton, nothing else.
You just explained the current state of GW2… no strategy.
The lack of trinity wouldn’t even bother me if I wasn’t pigeon holed into using 2 skills on my thief constantly and oh switch to shortbow for AoE to spam 1 button how exciting.
ANet didn’t just remove trinity, they removed ‘build wars’ which was what kept GW1 alive for so many years and still interesting to this day. They made these 2 major decisions without replacing them with anything of value.
Can you honestly tell me you’ll be enjoying your character in a few years with the same exact skills, same rotation, same everything? Hell I’m already bored of it… was bored on the first week. Then again, I DO come from GW1… a truly unique game.
no, I am not telling you that and if you care to reread my post carefully you may stop then for a moment and ask yourself why the heck you thought we would disagree there.
Trinity will not come to this game, it would take an enormous effort to rebuild characters and classes from scratch. Why do trinity addicts need to start a thread about this every week. All arguments have been exchanged many times over anyway. Yes, GW2 combat can be extremely boring, but that has quite different reasons than a lack of trinity – which would make the battles even more boring. And stop selling that concept as “strategy”. It is cookie cutter builds, rotating cookie cutter abilities in a cookie cutter order, all memorized from doing the same raid many times over. There is rarely strategy in the trinity approach, knowing what to do beforehand to counter rigid AI behaviour is simply memorizaiton, nothing else.
I understand the difference very well, but here people advised against doing this event because there was nothing to gain even for him apparently. He did not state he asked for help because he needed the event done for some reason or another. And OP also did not include any story of being insulted. Instead, he himself made benelovent actions towards artificial inhabitants of a gaming universe the focus of his argument. I have argued often enough against the “it is only game” card in my mmorpg career, because no, it is people´s time and emotions, but you really jump to conclusions here not backed the least by OP.