Guild Wars 2

Yup, same here.

It’s not whether or not its fun or not for the other side. Clearly the people the Romans conquered didn’t think it was fun, but doesn’t make it illegal in anyways.

I’m not talking about whether it is illegal or not. Rather, we’re talking about if it is good or bad for WvW. I’m saying that we need to do what’s necessary to remove it from WvW. Is the goal of war for the Roman’s fun? No, it’s conquest—Testudo helped them achieve that. Stacking helps you win, but does it make it more fun for all parties? WvW is not about dominating your opponent—it’s about having fun. If you have fun by dominating, fine, let’s make it so actual strategies dominate the field as opposed to hiding inside of one another.

It’s silly and stupid. It removes the feeling of chaos, that awesome feeling when you see a huge zerg of enemies charging you… Now you just see one blob of dozens of names. It’s not as fun. Sure, it can be countered, that’s fair, but should it exist at all? I still, through every post I’ve read, not heard one good reason as to why it is more fun to have. Yet, I can provide multiple reasons why it is less fun for most parties involved.

Orb “hacking” is clearly grounds to ban someone, standing on top of another person in order to gain their boons is not.

I’m not talking about what is illegal—it’s irrelevant.

If people want to get rid of this tactic because it’s not fun for some people, that’s not a valid reason at all. The only reason anything should be removed from a game is if it is in violation of ANet’s T&S.

I disagree completely and 100%. A bug that makes people’s equipment disappear is not in violation of ANet’s T&S. Under your logic, it should not be removed. See why that logic is faulty? Also, I’m not talking about removing something that is not fun for some people. I’m talking about removing something that is not fun for most people (I believe anyways).

Golem rushes were initially seen by some naysayers as “too OP” “Doesn’t give the defense enough time to respond” ect, and now that people know how to counter them, that mostly has stopped. I’m guessing it’ll go the same way for stacking.

No, because even when stacking is countered it is still more efficient than not being stacked. More than that, there’s a difference between Golem rushing and stacking. Building an army of Golems fits the setting. It requires a lot of money, but it’s not gaming the system. Stacking is borderline (not quite, maybe) abusing the system to milk out every last little advantage you can get. It doesn’t fit within the lore, it uses advantages that shouldn’t be present in first place, and it removes a lot of the fun things about WvW from the equation (chaos, large battles and battlefields, individuality and so on).

Rendering and culling issues are completely different and once ANet fixes them, no one will have an excuse for being wiped by a stacked group besides being unprepared or caught off guard.

I know. I’m saying that this is just another way that stacking provides a massive benefit. Even once this is 100% fixed, stacking/turtling whatever you want to call it will still be lame for many reasons.

Darkhaven has had hackers multiple times in it’s past. It’s not even worth mentioning, at all. Hackers exist, people can’t choose what server they exist on. It’s no different than blaming a group of people for a tornado. They can’t choose that it would happen—it simply did.

Evokerz.4952:

2000 years ago the Romans invented the turtle formation, did the Persian/Parthia crying and yelling to the gods for unfair tactics employed by the Romans? lol

Cry me an effin river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation

Did Roman soldiers phase shift into other Roman soldiers? Were attacks that affected large areas limited to only hitting five people? Could the Romans become invisible?

No? Okay, so we’ve established these two situations are completely different. Your analogy, even though I appreciate the point behind it, fails. Turtling makes WvW far less fun for almost every single person I’ve talked to. I’ve not heard one convincing reason as to why it’s preferable that it should exist.

This line of thought that because other games work a certain way that therefore every game should work that way is destructive and exemplifies everything wrong with modern video games.

Let’s look at Dark Souls here. Dark Souls instantly kills you multiple times through your first playthrough. It makes you go through insanely difficult and tough to figure out encounters. You die repeatedly through each playthrough. There is no option for difficulty. You’re not told what to do, except through dialogue you have to go out of your way to find or item descriptions. Becoming human opens you up to be viscous attacked, and in rare cases, having your hard earned humanity stolen.

All of the aforementioned things are counter to the standard logic of gaming. Every single one of them is the exact opposite of what the majority thinks it wants. But, if it didn’t have those things, Dark Souls would not be half the game it is. These differences that it has make it stand out from other games. It has made a nice place for itself within the market, catering to certain types of people.

Guild Wars 2 may not have what most people are used to. It may not have what people want. But, it offers a different way of playing MMOs. You don’t have to have no life to be strong. You can play with the big boys from day 1.

Guild Wars 2 is not for everybody. If you can’t play and enjoy yourself without gear progression, that is fine. No rude intentions here, but go play a game that you enjoy. Most other MMOs out there have raids, gear progression and that sort of stuff—play them. But please, leave this game alone for those of us who enjoy the core of what it is. Sure, there will always be room for improvement. But, I never want to see gear progression, raids, holy trinity, or anything. Other games revolve around those things, why should every single MMO in existence have to as well?

Stobor, I don’t think they’ve commented on what all expansions will be. I very much doubt they’ll all be free. But, in fact, they will be adding free content even if they do paid expansions.

I too have both an 80 Mesmer and a Necro (not 80, though I SPvP a lot on it) like many people in this thread…

The Necro is generally better than Mesmer in PvE. But, I’m hearing a lot of people say Mesmer is not good (or close to a Necro) in PvE—only an amateur with the class would think this. As a Mesmer, if you’re a shatter build, you can pump out insane amounts of damage. It’s not even funny, especially if you’re using Great sword. I know it’s tempting with how powerful a necro can be in PvE to assume that it’s unrivaled, but that is far from true.

But the OP’s post is hilarious. Generally speaking, Necros simply destroy Mesmers in PvE. Mesmers are far harder to use properly in PvE, and generally just more geared towards PvP. He’s simply not using his Necro to it’s fullest.

Nihilius, try to look at their size relative to the airship. Remember that airship on the ground in the pact HQ (I’ll put an SS in). The airships are much larger than they appear to be. Each of those dragons is larger than the airships. This airship is massive, and Teqatl compared directly to this airship is about right relatively compared to the dragons in the sky versus the airships in the sky.

Now, I’m also going to put a photo up of a dragon flying around one of those airships in the sky.

Watch in the background as the dragons fly around these airships. You’ll notice they’re the same in scale compared to those airships as we saw them from down below—because they reused the same skins/animations for the background again (it saves them time).

Now, compare Zhaitain to those dragons as he flies by them. You’ll notice, one dragon from its left wing to its right wing isn’t as large as one of Zhaitan’s wings. Then there’s his body and then the other wing. Then, how long is Zhaitan prior to losing his multiple tails? His whole body’s length is about 4-5 times longer than that of the other dragons.

Zhaitain is truly massive. People can’t appreciate that for multiple reasons.

Aaron.4807:

Arius.7031:

I recognize that since it’s common place, that it’s a valid tactic. Turtling (or as my server calls it, stacking) really sucks all of the enjoyment out of our fights. We were a low tier server up until we made a huge leap upwards in the rankings. We got matched with a server called Maguuma. They used stacking against us. At first we viewed it as abusing the system for multiple reasons, we were to an extent wrong, but the idea behind it remained.

That entire match, we were quite dominant thanks to numbers. But, in order to fight Maguuma forces 1 on 1, we would have to start stacking on each other. Now, any time my server is having trouble with a fight, we pull out the stacking (though to our credit, we don’t when we don’t have to). Sadly, it just sucks every bit of fun out of WvW. It doesn’t feel or look epic when there’s two groups of people just sitting there AoEing at each other. There’s no chaos, no sense of a battle, it feels just far too much like we’re milking every little bit of effectiveness we can out of the game. It’s not fun, it’s what’s required to win. And combine that with culling, and sometimes we can’t even see these large groupings of players. It’s really sad.

Portal bombing I love on its own, though I think portal needs to be nerfed. I think stacking/turtling will be the reason I stop WvWing, and culling just makes everything worse.

OMG. I want screenies of two forces just standing there looking at each other! I think just how ridiculous this is won’t hit home until the masses and ANet can see it.

I’ll see if I come across it in my WvW. We’re not against Maguuma anymore so it’s not very common. However, even if I did find it, truth be told, you probably wouldn’t even see them. Stacking does something that actually manages to make culling worse. I’ve seen stacks go undetected by the majority of a zerg for extended periods of time. It really is just insanely broken, stacking makes something already bad far worse. Another reason I don’t like it :/.

Some spoilers

Zhaitan was massive, Nihilus.

Do not watch the following video unless you’ve beaten the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A0WJF9PjCg

Zhaitan is at least 4 times bigger than those dragons (each on the same as Tequatl). Each of those dragons was huge, and Zhaitan dwarfs them all. Literally, when his tails are shot off, they fall off and they’re far longer than his lieutenants, and that’s before we even get to his body. His wings alone are larger than the other dragons.

waeren.9743:

Arius.7031:

waeren.9743:

Yes, why change. The current zerg and hope you see your opponents first meta is a lot more fun.

On a more serious note, some guilds from SBI are saying it’s already been countered., it might be worth checking with them. You can always organize a different non turtle defense if it doesn’t suit your playstyle.

If this game would be played in the same way all the time it would get old pretty fast. A bit of change from time to time is never bad.

This is just a tad bit fallacious. To say that a little change never hurts is too general to be true. It would be a change if suddenly everyone in WvW became a pink pony, does that mean it would be good? Stacking is a change, but what does it bring that is positive? Does it add to the fun of WvW? I don’t know, for me it severely decreases the fun and is in fact bad. I like change when it’s good change.

Do other people actually enjoy stacking? This is all just my opinion, but I’d be pretty surprised if there were many people out there who found it enjoyable.

Just curious, but since you think something is bad you’re assuming it’s bad for everybody?

I can’t speak for everybody but I’ve had quite a bit of fun. Guess being on the receiving end is less fun.

No, I never said that I assumed that. I specifically said:

Stacking is a change, but what does it bring that is positive? Does it add to the fun of WvW? I don’t know, for me it severely decreases the fun and is in fact bad … This is all just my opinion, but I’d be pretty surprised if there were many people out there who found it enjoyable.

I never assumed anything to be the case. I merely said I’d be surprised if it was any different. Unique and cool strategies are fine, but is standing inside of one another a tactic/strategy? If so, what is fun about it that you cannot have playing normally?

Arani.9057:

Arius.7031:

I recognize that since it’s common place, that it’s a valid tactic. Turtling (or as my server calls it, stacking) really sucks all of the enjoyment out of our fights. We were a low tier server up until we made a huge leap upwards in the rankings. We got matched with a server called Maguuma. They used stacking against us. At first we viewed it as abusing the system for multiple reasons, we were to an extent wrong, but the idea behind it remained.

That entire match, we were quite dominant thanks to numbers. But, in order to fight Maguuma forces 1 on 1, we would have to start stacking on each other. Now, any time my server is having trouble with a fight, we pull out the stacking (though to our credit, we don’t when we don’t have to). Sadly, it just sucks every bit of fun out of WvW. It doesn’t feel or look epic when there’s two groups of people just sitting there AoEing at each other. There’s no chaos, no sense of a battle, it feels just far too much like we’re milking every little bit of effectiveness we can out of the game. It’s not fun, it’s what’s required to win. And combine that with culling, and sometimes we can’t even see these large groupings of players. It’s really sad.

Portal bombing I love on its own, though I think portal needs to be nerfed. I think stacking/turtling will be the reason I stop WvWing, and culling just makes everything worse.

We “stack” also but we move… we stack then push, stack/rally then move, stack then siege… etc. Movement from location to location… or maybe we just use the term “stack” much more loosely more compared to group up before a movement.

With this Turtle Port there is no movement at all outside of portal and no risk in this. Stacking is not quite the same thing or could just be a terminology difference.

I never suggested my way of phrasing it was correct. I was pointing out that my server called it stacking—not that it should be called stacking. But I concede (though that’s not the right word since I never opposed it) that turtling is more accurate. Really it’s a bit silly, because I never said that’s the way it should be said… But whatever.

waeren.9743:

Yes, why change. The current zerg and hope you see your opponents first meta is a lot more fun.

On a more serious note, some guilds from SBI are saying it’s already been countered., it might be worth checking with them. You can always organize a different non turtle defense if it doesn’t suit your playstyle.

If this game would be played in the same way all the time it would get old pretty fast. A bit of change from time to time is never bad.

This is just a tad bit fallacious. To say that a little change never hurts is too general to be true. It would be a change if suddenly everyone in WvW became a pink pony, does that mean it would be good? Stacking is a change, but what does it bring that is positive? Does it add to the fun of WvW? I don’t know, for me it severely decreases the fun and is in fact bad. I like change when it’s good change.

Do other people actually enjoy stacking? This is all just my opinion, but I’d be pretty surprised if there were many people out there who found it enjoyable.

I recognize that since it’s common place, that it’s a valid tactic. Turtling (or as my server calls it, stacking) really sucks all of the enjoyment out of our fights. We were a low tier server up until we made a huge leap upwards in the rankings. We got matched with a server called Maguuma. They used stacking against us. At first we viewed it as abusing the system for multiple reasons, we were to an extent wrong, but the idea behind it remained.

That entire match, we were quite dominant thanks to numbers. But, in order to fight Maguuma forces 1 on 1, we would have to start stacking on each other. Now, any time my server is having trouble with a fight, we pull out the stacking (though to our credit, we don’t when we don’t have to). Sadly, it just sucks every bit of fun out of WvW. It doesn’t feel or look epic when there’s two groups of people just sitting there AoEing at each other. There’s no chaos, no sense of a battle, it feels just far too much like we’re milking every little bit of effectiveness we can out of the game. It’s not fun, it’s what’s required to win. And combine that with culling, and sometimes we can’t even see these large groupings of players. It’s really sad.

Portal bombing I love on its own, though I think portal needs to be nerfed. I think stacking/turtling will be the reason I stop WvWing, and culling just makes everything worse.

Drede, Crystal Desert is better than us. I’ll withhold judgment on whether Yak’s Bend is better than us or not. Having 2nd place doesn’t mean you’re better than 3rd place necessarily. I’ve seen 3rd place and 2nd place be matched up with each other after getting stomped, and 3rd place schooled 2nd place. I’m eager to get a match with the Yak’s that doesn’t have a 3rd server dominating us both. That would be a fun fight no doubt, seeing as both servers are quite notorious for having coverage at all times (night cappers we’re called).

People conflate endgame with things to go for at end game. This game has plenty of end game, and in my opinion it’s more fun and diverse than almost any game in existence as well as it being extremely fun.

25 paths essentially meaning 25 dungeons, 2 max level zones filled with tons of events and farming spots, 3 world bosses, S/TPvP, WvW, and then completionist stuff like achievements/maxing all crafting, and then more incentive to make alts because the 1-60 story will be dramatically different depending on race and all that. Even after you start the pact storyline you’ll experience tons of new stuff due to different choices.

So the game is not lacking in end game. The area of debate is more over things to go after and achieve at end game. Legendary is just so far out of reach for most people that they won’t even consider it. Getting all the skins you want, doing map completion, getting full exotics, that will take a month probably at most. After that, people are left wondering what to do. I myself have no problem in this regard. I’ve put in over 400 hours on my main character alone (and 45 hours on one single alt). Since it has popped up in this thread, yes I can provide screenshots.

So yeah, I think we need to stop confusing these two issues. But I also agree with the OP, if you approach this from a different angle, you may find yourself enjoying it more and for different reasons.

Just by seeing your attitude, I have to admit I’m skeptical. You’re very quick to bring your real life agenda into the discussion. It was completely unnecessary to even mention Fox News. This seems to me to indicate you have a bias against Anet, when taken together with your quickness to resort to insults and failing to consider completely possible alternatives other than massive conspiracies.

Okay though, let’s assume that is true. Mistakes happen no matter how good the team is. I have never experienced the issue you have. I have not heard (though I don’t deny the possibility) of other people having this issue. Even if they did, it’s clearly not common place. Errors will happen. On the whole most suggestion threads are left alone. Most rule abiding posts are left alone.

Fern, hundreds if not thousands of suggestion threads have made it through just fine. Logic suggests that your posts were somehow different. This one, for example, is not constructive in the slightest. It’s essentially you calling Anet incompetent.

Remember, criticism is not constructive by its nature. It can be constructive, but tone and intent are two other components to it. If you’re not trying to be helpful, and if you’re not approaching the situation in a reasonable and polite manner, then you’re not being constructive (at least not the kind of constructive they’re looking for). So think, were your posts constructive? Did you do or say something that could be construed as offensive?

In one thread, I responded to a guy who was being a jerk by calling him a jerk. My post got infracted. The mod went out of his way to essentially say “I know it was not your intent, but this is against our rules”, and I received no infraction points for it. They’re hyper strict with their rules. Things you say may be against the rules even though you didn’t even intend it.

Revan, if you enjoy the game, then there’s almost never ending amounts of things to do. Getting all of the achievements, playing WvW/SPvP, maxing SPvP rank, maxing all professions, getting 1 legendary, and if you enjoy that kind of thing making more than one 80. There’s many things to achieve, and many ways to achieve it. All of this hinges on you enjoying the game regardless of what you’re gaining. If you like the game, then you’ll always have stuff to go after (achievements, SPvP rank, Legendary and so on). This is many thousands of hours of playing.

This is not like WoW though. You’re not strongly compelled to do these things. You’ll only do them if you enjoy the game on its own. If you don’t, then they’re simply not worth doing. That’s okay, we all have our own reasons for playing the game. But if you like the game for itself, you’ll have all the content you could ever want.

I love how everyone just complains about PvDoor. Yak’s Bend and Darkhaven are notorious for night capping. It’s funny that PvDoor is coming out even from people notorious for night capping.

P.S. Intense fights at night time, it’s not PvD.

Saiyr,

I said specifically we do outnumber you, it’s not even. I’m only saying that it’s not by as much as you think, if you come at night often, you’ll realize that you guys have a decent night time population. We simply have a dominating night time population. All I’m saying is that it’s not PvD.

Apparently stacking is a tactic because you have no idea how or why to do it and it kills your zergs over and over. Nightcapping isn’t a tactic because it’s not a planned move; your entire server doesn’t decide to roll their sleep schedule back 6 hours. You just happen to have people allocated in that time zone. I think the word you want to use to define nightcapping is “happenstance”.

We’ve also wiped out a few of your uncoordinated zergs by stacking. Darkhaven is learning, we are doing stacking now. I don’t know why you’re speaking as if it’s a completely foreign tactic that we’ve never seen used or used before. We’ve been doing it for days at this point, have you fought us recently? Sometimes we don’t do it, but it’s becoming common place. Again, you have to define tactics.

Also no, we do plan to night cap. We specifically have people nap during the day to play at night—this goes back to when we originally started night capping. It’s not as prevalent now, because as soon as word of our night capping spread, we got a legit overseas base. However, it still exists. Though you’re partially right. Even so, that’s merely semantics and really is unimportant.

No server has a “non-existent” night force, to put it literally, but I don’t think anyone meant it like that. There is no way I would ever believe that Maguuma was putting up substantial fights on all maps when Darkhaven owned all maps.

I’m not being hyper literal. You guys did have substantial forces in certain BL. No, you most certainly could not come anywhere near to matching us in all 4 BL, but Maguuma could match us in 1-2 and so could NSP. Yet for some reason, all of our victories were PvD, when you guys would have zergs going and we’d beat you with equal numbered (maybe higher) zergs.

That’s the thing, it’s concentration. If you’re matching us equally in just 1 or 2 zones, and NSP is doing the same, then at best we’re only PvDing in 1 BL. And that’s another thing, your comment suggests (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) you’re not there for this night capping, yet you claim it’s PvD (or are at least defending your fellows claiming it’s PvD). I am there, I have seen massive organized Maguuma forces. I know it’s very hard to accept, but sometimes we beat you without outnumbering you 3-1. Most of the time we win at night due to numbers, true, but you guys put up competent resistance.

The only point I’m trying to get across is that you guys have a nighttime presence. That has been proven. Does it match ours? No, but you guys can concentrate it into 1-2 zones which does match our presence in those zones.

I agree with your post except nightcapping is not a “tactic”.

Eh, you have to define tactics. I don’t call stacking on top of each other a tactic. It all depends on how you define tactics. Exploiting your enemy’s weakness is a tactic.

Well it’s a pretty broad generalization when you make the last two day represent the whole matchup. The days that mattered were the first few days and DH nightcapped really well and that’s how you guys bounced way out in the lead.

I didn’t generalize in the slightest. My post was merely trying to show that you guys don’t have a non-existent night force. I’ve seen zergs from both sides. A lot of excuses in previous threads came from “well x server has no night guys so it’s player versus door for Dh”. This night has clearly proven that 100% false. We may have outnumbered you, in fact we most certainly did. However, that does not mean that we didn’t have to fight you guys in substantial numbers at times. It wasn’t usually player versus door, and that was the only point I was making.

It is because it was statistically impossible to “lose” (whatever losing is).
Still fun fights though!

Perhaps, and yes they were fun!

Ninein.4782:

Arius.7031:

Raffie.7865:

Earlier this moring DH was getting hard to find on most maps.

Yeah, it’s been really odd, I haven’t seen nearly as many people in WvW recently. Maguuma also led during most of the night IIRC. At least we can finally put these “Darkhaven just does PvD at night (player versus door)” comments to rest.

This isn’t anything strange. There is a core group of WvW players on Maguuma that just likes to WvW regardless of the score. It’s actually kinda fun to beat people up in WvW even if your success doesn’t always reflect in the matchup score due to nightcapping. Nightcapping is a legitimate strategy just like portal bombing so no complaint here. Myself, I have come to term with nightcapping and no longer care if we lose to it and it doesn’t ruin my WvW experience.

Yeah, I was only pointing out that the claims that Darkhaven goes unopposed at night are simply untrue. In fact, NSP at one point lead during the night. I agree night capping is a perfectly valid tactic, so is morning capping when one server is all at work or asleep. That’s why I applaud Maguuma and NSP for not giving in, and taking it to us and beating us at our own game at a time when you’re weakest. It’s impressive, and it reflects well on both of your servers.

Raffie.7865:

Earlier this moring DH was getting hard to find on most maps.

Yeah, it’s been really odd, I haven’t seen nearly as many people in WvW recently. Maguuma also led during most of the night IIRC. At least we can finally put these “Darkhaven just does PvD at night (player versus door)” comments to rest.

-Dungeons 1
I agree to a minor extent. Getting an Onyx Lodestone for example makes me really happy, 1g baby.

-Dungeons 2
NO, NO NO NO NO NO. This would make the game an absolute nightmare for anyone trying to grind for a certain set. I’ve done dozens of runs through dungeons, if this were in place, I would quit this game the moment it was added. If you want to be a little more reasonable with this, try this: Instead of having to redo hour long dungeons, instead, once a boss battle in a dungeon is entered, add a barrier to the entry to the battle. Make it so people who have died and respawned cannot re-enter the fight. But, if anything, add more waypoints. Let’s kill the tedium, running back and forth sucks, re-doing stuff sucks. Let’s be smart about it.

Also no, it’s not the only end game. Farming events in Orr, farming items in Frostgorge Sound, world bosses, SPvP, and WvW, and finally explorable dungeons are all end game activities.

-Dungeons 3
Partly agree and not. I do hate the outrageous HP on some mobs, but at the same time it can make things more enjoyable.

-End Game
They’re uninteresting to an extent, I think Claw of Jormag is fun enough. However, I think the issue is less with interest and more with how engaged you are. You feel useless and you feel perfectly safe in Tequatl and Shatterer, you feel as though you can leave it on auto attack and what away. That needs to changed, and it was mostly fixed during the Claw of Jormag fight (fear, that weird effect that kills you, having to focus on crystals)

-Story
It’s not good compared to a single player game. It’s way better than the overwhelming majority of MMO’s.

Also, sorry for typos, I’m eager to get back to playing. I just felt I had to share my opinion. This is because my opinion is better than yours—I can’t be wrong (sarcasm, no infraction please).

It’s funny, because I simply disagree with the majority of what you said. It’s fine, opinions differ, no problem with that. Just letting you know, most of your solutions would kill the game for me, and I think they’re really poor (e.g. having to start a dungeon over if you wipe).

The only thing I really agree on is crafting, it is almost completely pointless.

-Transmutation
Interesting idea, would be cool, but I don’t really think this is a problem to begin with. It’s not a negative, so much as it is a missed opportunity for a positive.

-Too Many Currencies
Disagree entirely. Multiple currencies allows for diversity. If everything were purchased through gold for example, nothing would prevent gold buyers from getting Legendaries with no issue, and other things like that. It rewards people who play certain things (badges of honor for WvWers) with currency applicable to what they played. Now, having more to do with each currency to make them useful, that’s something that should be discussed.

-Armor Rarity Disparity
Getting Exotics takes less than a week if you’re a casual and only mildly competent player. It’s not an issue in the slightest.

-Magic Find armor
It’s for people who love farming. Sure, it sacrifices stats. What do you expect? Giving the magic find on top of all the stats you want? What’s the downside, and what’s the point of even having a magic find system to begin with if so? Having magic find allows for people to get cheap gear at 80 that will help them get more money to get all the exotics/skins they want. It takes nothing away and at least gives options to some people, therefore, in my opinion, it’s only positive.

-No depth 1
This is personal taste. Some people prefer simplicity, and it’s not something that only casuals prefer. Simplicity makes the game easier to balance. Plus, there actually is depth. You confuse depth with volume, there’s much depth (many potential good builds, weapon swapping adds to the depth, over a dozen unique skills per class, the ability to swap on the fly etc.). There may not be hundreds of skills per class, sure, and I’m thankful for that.

-No depth 2
You have issues here with why certain classes can use certain weapons… My question is, why shouldn’t they? What’s the problem with them using these weapons? It may not fit your stereotype of what a Necro should use when he’s using an axe, but perhaps that’s simply because you have a irrational and useless preconception of what this class should be. Also I don’t get your suggestion, and I read it multiple times, sorry, I’m tired. Play a different class, my weapons are dramatically different as both a Mesmer and a Necro, each one is an entirely different beast and they all have their place (except maybe the axe for a Necro).

-No Depth 3
Why rename it? A trait is a characteristic that someone possesses, this fits fine. Besides, it’s just a name.

-Combat sucks 1
Effects are pretty much the same no matter what level you are. I’m not going to address each individual complaint, because most of them are fluff that aren’t actually issues. You should never have 1 build that fits every single situation, that would be stupid and would make builds pointless. Builds that excel in certain situations is the way to go. Some adaptability by having two weapon sets with dramatically different skills is in place, you’ll always have the tools to get through even though it will be extremely rough. Also, you perhaps have to change one slot skill per dungeon, I jump back and forth between a condition remover and a skill that revives people… And I think it’s cool that I can easily do that.

-Combat Sucks 2
I think the dodge system is great and adds a new level of depth to the game. I think it’s cool seeing an AoE coming down and people quickly rolling away to escape it. I disagree 100%.

-Combat Sucks 3
Now we’re talking about minor visual things? It’s to bring the focus into your character (the zooming) and to give the impression that you’re dying, as well, the sudden change makes your mind instantly aware of the state you’re in (downed state) as opposed to it making very few changes to your UI and you not realizing it for a little while. Also, ask anyone would they rather run dungeons with or without the downed system… See how people answer.

-Combat Sucks 4
Agreed, except for healing skills. Healing skills being diverse keeps things interesting. It also allows certain classes to play off their strengths (Mesmer for example) with their healing skills.

zastari.1730:

I’m bringing it up because I’m trying to say that Darkhaven is mostly Bad Players that Complain A Lot because they don’t have any tactics. If you go read the JQ / SB / IoJ thread you are not going to see a single person complain about LoSing, stacking, or portalbombing. All of them already understand that it’s a legitimate strategy.

Also, you’re right that they don’t need to outnumber us 2:1, it’s closer to 2.5 or 3:1.

First off, I’ve seen Darkhaven beat Maguuma when Maguuma had more players, although on average you’re better.

Secondly, Darkhaven has not been a high tier server. I know this is hard to understand, because you’ve always been high tier. You’re from a server that was blessed with organization in WvW from day one, we never were. We always have been a primarily PvE server, and we’ve sucked in WvW up until the past 3 weeks.

Can you really blame Darkhaven players for seeing something that really appears to be cheating (that they’ve never seen before) and calling people out on it? I love that you bring up IoJ/JQ/SBI, because they’re the highest ranked servers in the entire game. Did you know up until this week Darkhaven hadn’t ever been higher than the third to lowest tier?

So yeah, you’re better than us—good for you. We outnumber you, good for us. Can we all stop boasting and patting ourselves on the back now?

An excuse for him winning? XD

I think he’s saying they’re doing things to try to cause the culling issues to worsen. Not just doing things that make it worse, actively trying to make it work. I have no idea if this is true or not.

Tyjaka.6137:

If Maguuma had a larger population for the times midnight to 8am PST, we would easily be in first place. The only time I see Maguuma with a smaller amount on the pie chart is at that time due to the lack of population able to play at that time.

Wouldn’t be so sure about that, Tyjaka. Darkhaven has not had many people WvWing recently, most of us have been far more focused on PvE. Winning without there being much competition for 4 straight weeks will tend to do that to a server. I’d wager if we had our full WvW population going against yours, your domination prior to midnight wouldn’t go unchallenged. We haven’t had a queue today that I can recall (except for maybe EB, haven’t checked), we’re not fielding anywhere near as much as we could.

But, Maguuma certainly does have a very strong day crew—despite it being not overpopulated.

I have discovered that I don’t need a never ending stat climb in order to enjoy end game. I used to be like everyone else, chasing after stat increases in order to feel superior to others. Why bother? What does it really matter? I can get the same amount of joy from making my character look sick without making the game imbalanced in my favor against the people who can’t grind all day.

Really, Guild Wars 2 has changed my outlook on MMOs completely. It has a load of issues that really need fixed, but the base game itself is awesome, the idea behind it all is awesome. All they need to do is expand content to make the game more varied, balance certain aspects of the game (WvW/SPvP), make certain currencies have more uses in general (Badges of Honor, Karma) and then add bells whistles (e.g. spectator mode). Once they’ve done those things, GW2 will be my favorite MMO of all time without any comparison.

By Grabthar’s hammer… I wish that’s how the conversation had went Ayane!

I said your attitude was the problem Rhyis, not any specific words you said. And I have a plenty thick skin, as already stated, your words do not affect me personally. I’m saying that your attitude will spark more arguments and will eventually lead to the closing of this thread. But go ahead, make more irrelevant points like “you need a thicker skin”. Ad hominem + Straw Man = impressive accomplishment, congratulations!

Also, please read my posts in the future before responding to them, thank you.

Our discussion was not at any point about the ups and downs of the play by play. Our discussion was about me congratulating your server, and you bragging about how you beat us outnumbered. How is that healthy, and how is that a discussion?

I’m not truly offended by your comment, it’s the internet. I’m simply tired of the endless arguments and such. I want a friendly atmosphere, but threads keep getting closed because of silly arguments. I did react too harshly and for that I apologize, I simply don’t see the point of your response to me unless it was to try to show that Maguuma can win outnumbered.

And this sub-section is created for talking about them in a friendly way. Our discussion was like:

Arius: You guys have really good numbers today (you take this to mean I was saying Maguuma is only winning because of numbers).
Rhyis: We rolled you guys while we were outnumbered in your BL, so we don’t need to outnumber you.

You see what the issue is here? If you had been like “Oh it was a good battle, I was proud that we were able to beat Dh in your garrison today” something like that I’d be patting you on the back and saying you should have pride in the fact that you beat us while outnumbered. But, your point (no offense intended) was not made in the spirit of healthy competition.

I’m just trying to say we need to get away from that, it’s pointless and it will eventually get this thread locked.

roqoco.4053:

Loot in MMOs is strongly related to progression and if GW2 wasn’t about progression, then why would it have levels?

Guild Wars 2 having progression and being about progression are two different things. Having some progression is nice, but forcing you to always try to progress isn’t quite as nice (to everyone).

The central problem with GW2 PvE is that loot and karma are scaled to the level of zones, so that you get much less in earlier zones (why?). That means that high level players can never progress by going back. When you couple that with GW2s frenetic levelling system that gives XP for everything and catapults you up to level 80 in a few weeks it’s a recipe for having large amounts of content that noone ever does.

Because a down scaled 80 is way stronger than a level 10 not being down scaled. It’s even way stronger than a level 50 not being down scaled. Then, the events in lower zones tend to be easier to complete and much simpler. These combined mean GW2 needs level 80 focused areas for people to grind in. That and they need the level 80 areas to focused on in order for people to be able to easily access the grind. If everyone can farm everywhere, not many people will be farming in each specific area, making the farming spots far less effective.

Sure we play the game for fun. But, it would be a lot more fun if you could progress towards long term goals in all areas of the content, not just by grinding/farming in Cursed Shore.

You can gain a great deal doing dungeons and doing WvW, I do both to supplement my farming and it makes a very powerful and diverse end game experience.

Levels in GW2 just appear to be a throwback. The promise of GW2s design was to be something new and revolutionary. There is some of that, but in the end they caved into the temptation to follow the illusory crock of gold at the end of WoW’s rainbow rather than developing their own better ideas from Guild Wars 1.

It’s just short of revolutionary if you ask me—but it is still quite innovative and refreshing. Love the post and the respectable tone about it, I simply disagree is all :P.

“Throw out passive aggressive ribbing and play it off as praise.”

This implies dishonesty, which would be an insult. And it wasn’t the insulting that’s immature, it’s the defensiveness. It’s the fact that I congratulated you guys on showing up in good numbers (which may have been incorrect) and then you feel the need to boast about taking our Garrison. You somehow took my post to be an attack on Maguuma, so you proceed to start a useless argument about it. This exact type of behavior is what got the last thread locked down. People couldn’t accept losing so they start attacking anyone from that server. I can’t count how many posts I saw saying Darkhaven sucks, Maguuma rocks, Maguum’s cheating and things along those lines.

That’s where the immaturity primarily comes from. This adversarial (not in a healthy way) attitude of “I need to brag about us winning to prove we don’t need numbers to win” or whatever reason you did it for. I never even tried to imply you need numbers to win, this entire matchup I’ve been perfectly honest about the fact that Maguuma outplays Darkhaven man for man, that’s a fact.

Edit: It’s the attitude of “because he made a comment that sounds like it could be passive-aggressive, I need to remind him of how amazing my server is”. That’s the stuff we need to get away from. It’s not helpful, it only starts arguments, and it’s immature.

Okay then Rhyis, instead of congratulating Maguuma, I’ll simply say that Darkhaven needs to get its act together and have a stronger showing (and Maguuma does too). I wasn’t trying to start an argument. I recognize that numbers are important to warfare, I’ve said that in every single time I’ve ever posted on the subject (look at my post history, I frequently tell people not to whine when outnumbered, it’s part of the game). If we’re outnumbered it’s our fault and we need to improve, it’s not something that reflects poorly on Maguuma.

I have no issue with Mag outnumbering us in one zone, I brought that up to show that Mag is not done fighting yet (I refer you to my thread about EB vs NSP vs Dh, I posted a similar picture about EB when they took the lead in potentials, which was surprising). I try to compliment my opponents when they take the lead so as to try to boost their morale and make them participate in WvW so we can all have a more enjoyable match. I also do it just to try to make people feel better when they’re losing, don’t really know why.

But fine, whatever, attack me and try to start a stupid argument that shouldn’t exist in the first place. Lesson learned Rhyis, I won’t compliment you guys again. But I suggest you change your attitude, it really is quite immature and it reflects poorly on your personal character.

Rhyis, why so defensive? I was congratulating you guys on how much of a showing you’d had. Numbers are an important part of WvW, and until today Maguuma was falling short in that area (that or we’re falling short). You guys have got to get out of this mentality of thinking you need to prove how much better you are than everyone else. Really, it’s quite immature to be honest.

I was quite impressed by Maguuma’s showing today. Notice my buffs.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Diablo 3 is an ARPG who’s only endgame is the grind for loot (and apparently Paragon levels, haven’t bothered to log back in recently). Guild Wars 2 on the other hand, puts equipment loot in the back seat. Instead, you’ve got many different types of end game to enjoy.

In your above example you use Lodestones and cores, they’re not worth farming. That’s fairly true, but, if they suddenly increased their drop rate their value would decrease. Then, it wouldn’t be worth farming for a different reason and certain end game things would be accessed a bit too quickly/easily.

Now, if you ask me, they should add 3 random drops to the last boss of a dungeon, each one being masterwork or higher, with a good chance for rares and a small chance for exotics. I think there needs to be that rush when killing a boss, hoping to get good loot.

This would only makes queues worse, sadly. Is it worth making it so people can’t play when it happens to be their play time, in order for it to be fair? I don’t think it is personally—and server imbalance as far as population can make the game even more fun (think 300, stuff like that actually happens to an extent in this).

In addition to this, what if people are AFK or off PvEing (puzzles/completion) in WvW? How can we regulate those two things? Those two still exist and would in fact be far more detrimental under your suggestion. And what if one side’s players leave? Then your suggestion doesn’t even fix the one issue it’s aiming to fix. The server with more people would still have an advantage, because people would just stay on after prime time and not log out. And then there’s the randomness factor, what if one server gets a very organized guild in, while the other server just gets a pug?

This just doesn’t seem to solve many problems, and seems to create a few of it’s own. I’m just gonna have to say, to me, it’s definitely not worth it. But, I loved your post, I read most of it, skimmed through the rest, and it was very constructive at least.

Brazen, I doubt they’re just trying to stick it to all Rangers. It may just be bad luck, or there may be a reason they’re leaving this open.

In any case, they can do both at the same time. A content maker can’t necessarily fix bugs efficiently, and vice versa, that’s why I bet they have two teams that do it separately—in which case it doesn’t matter how much content they add.

Renegret.3564:

fellyn.5083:

Halo.8976:

saiyr.3071:

Second favorite Darkhaven tactic!

Probably it’s the first one.

Ah, Darkhaven, you gave me so many laughs…

I hate that I have to point this out but there are people who have no clue what they are doing on every server.

Just because you got a screen shot of some one doing that it doesn’t mean those kinds of players can only be found on darkhaven.

Don’t be ridiculous. Clearly all of server X is stupid because a single person did a single stupid thing.

Also keep in mind that if one person does a glitch or hack on server X, then CLEARLY all of server X is full of hackers and glitchers. Hackers are mutually exclusive to X and don’t exist on my server, server Y, which is also clearly superior.

While we’re on the subject, if server X is winning, then they’re nothing but skilless, glitching nightcampers. If my server, Y, is winning, it’s because the other servers are bad and we have superior tactics.

My logic is infallible, don’t dare try and refute me.

You’re just a server X fanboy! Your server is full of noobs and you’re just trying to defend it. haha l2p noob.

Glad this thread is more civil than the last.

Krathalos, I’m sorry but it’s time we start dealing with what the facts are. You’ll find them in the screenshots below. Arg, it’s not letting me post multiple screen again.

http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp317/bbryant0620/gw020.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp317/bbryant0620/gw026.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp317/bbryant0620/gw027.jpg
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp317/bbryant0620/gw030.jpg

Those are all my screenshots, notice the time in the bottom right (it is PST).

Those are screenshots of 4 separate days from myself that show we led during the noon-prime time areas. We would quite often steal and hold the lead from you. NSP would have the lead from morning until noon, from that point on NSP would start losing ground at any time from 12-4pm, and we always (I think) held a huge lead by 8pm.

Krathalos, you need to define day time. Yes, I’ll agree, morning/afternoon we sucked because we simply couldn’t field anybody. But, at around 3pm PST we would start taking the entire map from NSP and by 8pm often times we’d have virtually everything. These are not just claims, I can provide you 4 screen shots of Dh dominating during the day on different days. We need to get away from this, because Dh doesn’t only dominate while people are sleeping—we also dominate prime time (usually).

saiyr.3071:

fellyn.5083:

Rhyis.7058:

Kita.7819:

I still don’t get where all this criticism comes from. Yes we have a decent night time. We also have a superb daytime.

No you don’t. With the exception of Friday, Mag always has had control of the day time score pretty handily. The issue is, even your most hardcore of players are never on more then 8 hours a day. When you’re asleep or working, that’s 16 hours you’re not online defending anything. And Mag really doesn’t have any night time crew at all to speak of.

This isn’t a complaint, as we have lost every single match up to date due to Mag not being online. We’re quite used to it. But when Mag is online in force, we are almost always gaining points at a furious pace. Our day time crew is beyond reproach… So much so that you DH players are calling them cheaters for using standard tactics.

Is that why we’ve been getting 350~ points a tick for the last 3 hours during prime time to your 150~? (confused)

Your evening population numbers are much better than ours, but not so much mid day.

Yeah, noon and around that time we’re outnumbered pretty heavily. It’s a big weakness in our server. Exploit it please. People on Darkhaven need to be aware that we’re not invincible and that if we get complacent we’ll get smacked down a few tiers.

Though, the original point of that poster is correct, we’re capable during the day time, we make mistakes and we’re certainly not on Maguuma’s level, but we held our own against NSP with completely equal numbers during prime time for 3 weeks (we usually won in fact).

I’ve never seen one Drede, I’ve been on Darkhaven for a long time too. Perhaps now that it was mentioned, one of our commanders or something will organize it. After all, since everyone seems to have written off Maguuma and NSP, perhaps this match should be used to learn and practice for the ones ahead.

My threads always seem to devolve into flame wars… hope this one has better luck.

@Javy

Difference is, he’s being genuine, you’re not. It makes your post ridiculous and his not so much. Anyways, rationally speaking, why would he accuse you of this when we’re beating you pretty bad? What have we to gain? We have no motivation—it does us no good to accuse you—it does us no good even if we prove you did it. Not only does he gain nothing from lying, he’s known for being overly respectful to people (look at his post history, seriously). There’s no motivation that we can find, and it doesn’t fit his personality to run around lying and accusing people. These seem to indicate he’s telling the truth.

I’m not saying that proves he’s right or that you should assume that he is. I’m just saying that we should all try to be a little more fair in our assessment of the situation.

Edit: And just to be clear, I don’t find blaming an entire server for these things as acceptable. You may have a few individuals who do this, that’s fair, but I don’t buy for a second that your server is in on it.

I thought VIP left for Darkhaven, not SoR.

1. I fought NSP, I know they had fair (not overwhelming) numbers both at night and in the day, they also had a massive amount of morning time players. So I actually had a clue on what I was talking about, whereas that guy was trying to talk about what happened 4 weeks ago on a server he hadn’t even seen before until 2 weeks ago.

2. My claims were more moderate and not insulting. I deduced something using logic (I may have been wrong), but it was very non-specific and it was based on observations I had. Your server had more in the way of numbers than any server we had fought previously (even SoR when they dominated us) and you had a very healthy night game. So I figured, you guys were either waaayyyyyyyy overpopulated, or you hadn’t lost as much as the person was suggesting. But fine, I can admit that I was wrong, and it was perhaps hypocritical, but I believe my claim was justified whereas none of his were.

Edit: It’s not so much that people should not comment on other servers. If that were true, saying anything about another server would be wrong. But, it’s that you shouldn’t talk about other servers when you don’t know at all what you’re talking about. Disagree with my conclusion all you want, but I at least had reasons for why I thought NSP didn’t experience such a dramatic decline in population. The guy I was responding to was just saying things with no backing for them whatsoever, because he wasn’t even in a match with us at the time of our 1st fight with SoR.