(edited by Azure.8670)
Right now, I’d rank Daredevil DPS as #3, behind two other classes: Herald, Tempest. And tempest is a technicality, as there are plenty of situations where Daredevil does more.
Daredevil DPS in my experience is highly variable. It depends on several things:
#1: The location of the target. Next to a ridge or against a wall is preferred.
#2: The size of the target. Bigger is better.
#3: How well paced their attacks are. An even paced moveset is best.
#4: If they have projectiles that can be reflected, and how well I can predict it.It all comes down to how much I can cut loose with Weakening Charge. Against a near-ledge target or a cornered enemy, I can cut loose a full fury with Weakening Charge, and do just massive damage. Against large targets, too.
Against smaller targets I have to use the Bound -> Vault -> Charge -> Auto to maximize DPS, with Fist Flurry thrown in for good measure. If the target is particularly troublesome, I can tank it by standing in its face and using vault in place to avoid each attack. That tactic is… surprisingly effective against certain enemies. Against enemies with wide sweeping attacks, I’ll occasionally use dust strike -> auto -> dust strike to disable their moves. Or sometimes I’ll just chain my stuns to keep something disabled.
Even against dangerous enemies I can stay engaged for quite the time. I definitely recommened channeled vigor as a heal, because its healing potential is massive and that extra 1.5 dodges means quite a bit of maintained engagement time.
As for the competitors…
Tempest beats Daredevil against large targets, stationary targets, and enemies that must be engaged at range. As much as I like unload, the fact is that font + fireball is better. Tempest loses to Daredevil against mobile targets, or targets that you have to engage at melee range, and also in situations where sustained damage is unavoidable. The glass is real here, but I’ve found the DD more than capable of surviving.
Herald beats Daredevil in most circumstances, except that in which sustained damage is unavoidable in melee. Heralds don’t have a real “heal” as much as they have a few utility skills that grant health along with their other functions, so I’ve found that in bouts where I need sustain, the Herald starts to fall short. Otherwise, the herald does stupid good DPS by just auto attacking with sword. There is a note here: Heralds have to sacrifice a lot to deal with projectiles, but thieves sacrifice very little.
Well if you’re talking power, I’m pretty positive berserker has higher dps. If we are including condi builds thief isn’t even in the top 5. Engi and berserker blow it out the water. Also as for the healing, herald heal is top tier to the point of being broken. Swapping between Glint and shiro you can heal so often you never stop attacking Champs solo.
Thief is probably around reaper dps. Thief is higher but when enemy drops below 50 it’s much closer with reaper possibly doing more, but I think thief still wins
I… didnt even know there were viper trinkets? since when?
Exotic crafted, from Tarir
blucka
just found them.
So, ascended viper armor, exotic viper trinkets with berserker runes is better than sinister trinkets with whatever rune?
I… didnt even know there were viper trinkets? since when?
I know Scholar is good for dungeons and stuff, where a solid group can keep their health high enough to make the best of it, but in HoT, especially the meta events, I find myself often falling below the health threshold.
What rune set would you guys recommend to maximize DPS?
I just noticed I had a Strength rune lying around, and I happened to have gotten a lucky drop out of the exotic equipment chest just now which gave me another one. Should I just shell out for 4 more of those?
ive been using strength since hot dropped and it works great if youre using soul reaper. However, I just switched to scholar and dropped soul reaping for blood magic and I find I stay above 90% hp and do a bit more damage personally. both work great though
Oxygen had a post over a month ago about how powerful condi warrior is and he was laughed out of the building. Not sure if NIKE or not posted in it as I havent followed the thread recently, but I believe this is what hes referring too
Mmmhm. I did have to deal with posts such as:
Berserker is far from being the new top damage dealer.. it doesn’t even kill faster than old power build Warriors sad to say the difference is evident as night and day. Anything you can kill with a power Warrior inn 3-4 hits will take a while for a condition Warrior to bleed out or burn down. Condition is fairly feasible on huge HP bosses.. where you stack bleed and burning up to 5k a tick assuming you keep your ticks on a high enough uptime.
or…
Condi does good damage.
Power does moreThere is the issue.
or…
Flaws in your process….
1. Scorched earth is only an improvement over COmbustive shot for large hit box bosses.
2. You haven’t recorded a video of a stable DPS rotation of your build in action for evaluation. If you posted a stable 1 minute dps rotation video I would be more than happy to tell you the exact DPS of your build with typical PvE buffs and optimal gearing.
3. I’m not closed minded about condi warrior. I’ve been playing condi warrior for months or years. Also, when better practices prove themselves to be better practices, I ofcourse incorporate them. changing one’s mind when they get new data is what you should always do. The problem is you haven’t taken a single step towards validating your ideas besides posting a combat log screen shot and a suboptimal build calc from gw2skills.
or…
Thief bashing us about complaining about berserker while displaying some cherry picked data here. Am i the only one that sees the problem?
…and so on. So yeah, a bit.
What? NIKE always said condi warrior was at least equal and stronger on gorse. His calculations were based on engi doing perfect rotations. Perfect rotations on engi ia hard. Good rotations on warrior is easy.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-Will-anyone-take-thief/page/2#post5755299
Point being: before I figured SE double dipping out, he didn’t think condi would cut it. But that is pretty much irrelevant. If it hadn’t been me, some other guy would have figured it out sooner or later.
Basically, he posted an unoptimized build and said “this is good.” People said, “is it?” And he didn’t provide any proof of the build working in practice. […] if you want people to take your theorycraft seriously you have to do something with it.
I laid down the basics of the build and put out a decent written guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/13G_nyKtoh7xnsO2cl5HPghakMw4oaE9va0Ci96y96rk/edit) where I suggested a couple of gear sets to try and maximise damage/condition duration. As it turns out, that’s the right answer (as with all condi builds) but more pieces were required to run Earth. I wouldn’t call my work lazy or whatever; I just lack time. The discovery in itself is pretty important; beforehand, no one had figured out that Scorched Earth could double/triple dip, and included a very clear video despite limited means and resources to build the gear in PvE. That was the real issue for me; I mostly PvP/WvW, I simply can’t craft valuable gear & runes on-demand.
Your optimisation essentially involved the mighty process of swapping out 3 pieces of armor and a sigil. Ayy.
So I optimized the build more
By swapping out 4 pieces of armor and a sigil. Very good catch on Earth; that’s a nice 4 extra stacks of bleed.
Should Oxy have done these things? Probably. especially so if he wants a pat on the back and e-credit for the idea.
I’m very busy with university work, icy-veins writing, & HotS tournaments. I did put out an open invitation to work on the build which, obviously, ended up paying off because it proves to be really doing well. The quote below:
I have no clue what to do for runes and sigils because mathcrafting puts me to sleep, so let’s have someone smarterer than me do it or something.
when rational people are given new information they change their conclusions
Glad to see we agree. Case settled.
sinister warrior was already a thing. There was already a sinister meta condi build that use longbow and sword torch, since sinister came out. It was already tested agisnt bosses like LUPI in solo runs etc. The facts were already know the DPS was better than zerk warrior due to nerds atleast solo.
Scorched Earth didn’t exist to anyone not in the beta just about 30 minutes before I posted the build video. So I don’t think so here.
Are you guys new? Nike already had a video and build guide for condi war and said it was more DPS than melee on Lupi.
That’s funny, he doesn’t seem too impressed with the berserker in his hands-on video found here; https://youtu.be/7BXULiE_-Tc?t=591
That is in fact the video that made me want to look into the condi warrior’s newfound viability because the class and playstyle was my PvP love and how I ended up topping the PvP leaderboards pre-hot.
Way before OXY even knew what a warrior was. If anything Oxy copied Nikes build that was already out.
lolz
this is like… 22k stacks of burning
Unfortunately, there are basically 0 encounters in the game where condi engie is better dps in practice than condi warrior. A supremely skilled condi engie is at best equal to an average condi warrior who understands the build. I say this as a main warrior, but its sad that the balance is so off that one of the hardest builds to play well in the game has a lower dps ceiling than one of the easiest, but thats been a GW2 issue since the start really.
That’s so far off your initial assessment of the condi warrior. I wonder what happened.
What? NIKE always said condi warrior was at least equal and stronger on gorse. His calculations were based on engi doing perfect rotations. Perfect rotations on engi ia hard. Good rotations on warrior is easy.
Oxygen had a post over a month ago about how powerful condi warrior is and he was laughed out of the building. Not sure if NIKE or not posted in it as I havent followed the thread recently, but I believe this is what hes referring too
ok I cancelled my 32bit download because that patch seems ridiculously large. what is it and why is it so huge?
great vid honestly!
Sadly, this for ME PERSONALLY shows exactly why I dont play mesmer anymore… Just seems too strong and too safe.
Thanks, but maybe it seems so strong and safe because I’ve been practicing with it. After a lot of play I’ve learned a lot of the ins and outs of how my traits work with the weapon skills. That practice allows me to figure out how to hit hard while not getting hit hard myself.
Not taking anything from you at all, the game play was fantastic and youre better than most mesmers! Im not at all trying to come off as knocking your skills, so if it seems that way I apologize. What im trying to say is I dont think most other, or any other, can pull off things of this level with the same level of skill, if that makes sense. Again, thats me PERSONALLY. Love the video though
I admittedly wonder how people determine that they have a certain level of DPS at any given time.
The short answer is they don’t. unless they are using a DPS meter (which is pretty janky too) they are just guessing.
They see X hit or X tick and assume that’s their dps. Maybe they got that number, but without knowing how they maintain it over the course of the fight there’s no way to know.
Take every post you see with dps claims with a grain of salt. remember that the average forumer is a l33t gamer (read: a pretty stupid creature).
going to strongly disagree here. There are actually people on these forums, specific people, who have been playing since launch with myself, that sit and crunch these numbers with precision
Look at some raid revenant PoVs. I can link you 2 different runs in an instant, of 2 different revenants, using sword auto for 7 minutes straight, not a single other skill(except glint facets – not even activating elemental blast) and outputting around 17k dps when target is over 50%, then having around 23k when it gets under 50%. For a class averaging 20k dps from using auto attacks, you can see why so many, including me, rerolled. Don’t get me wrong, I love my revenant, I faceroll 99% of the content in HoT(I got a shield so I basically have facet+shield5 = 2 safety nets that make me unkillable) but its skillcap is very low(yes, even when SUPPORTING and dpsing it’s easy as hell, stop trying to justify reve as being hard to play- you know who you are)and the huge downside is that it’s boring as hell when it comes to long fights.
TL;DR even if reve is OP as hell, no good player wants to play a class that only auto-attacks any target from 100-0.
im… going to have to agree with this. I love rev, and I actually switched from warrior to rev (former ele mes main, but somehow fell in love with warrior early this year dont ask) but after launch – last week of nothing but rev and some reaper, I decided to give berserker another shot and im loving it. Nothing against rev, but I am finding it super boring
Healer for fractal really. Just pay attention and don’t rapid fire when retail is up. Better yet go condi
ive found having a healer in frac 75+ is actually helpful tbh. most people dont even know, because they just spam mossman, but yea, it helps. It barely slows you down actually, if anything it makes it less painful due to the nonsense type deaths that are (somewhat) inevitable
I was getting 2 KB/sec download. I switched to the 32-bit client and updated in under 5 seconds.
just did this as well and it installed instantly
great vid honestly!
Sadly, this for ME PERSONALLY shows exactly why I dont play mesmer anymore… Just seems too strong and too safe.
I think Guardian GS is the best melee weapon in the game overall, and LB is the truth.
every other weapon needs a buff and a half
Ive been competitive in every game ive ever played. I hustled older kids in street fighter 2. I never left an arcade with less money than when I went in. Ive tried to compete in literally every single game ive ever played.
except gw2, and this is the game ive put the most hours in, and the game I love. I have been waiting years for true balance, because it just bothers me how the beta has been so awkward since launch. I barely pvp (I do, but casually, which disgust me) because the balance is just so bad. I dont understand how there arent another 5-15 people hired just to test numbers constantly and raid these forums and reddit to see what we want and solutions we have. The solutions keep getting worse and the difference between classes effectiveness has never been so large.
Since gw2s launch ive said the best way to balance this game is to make every class almost too powerful, thus making them equal. Virtua Fighter uses this tactic actually. In VF, any character played perfectly can end a fight near instantly, or can be completely untouchable. As broken as it sounds, its probably the most balanced fighting game series. Now MMOS work different, obviously (somewhat) but im starting to think that even this wont save pvp now. The Elite Specs have changed some of the classes so drastically in terms of effectiveness that it will take a major overhaul to even start a change.
I truly think ANET needs to look at their design and balancing teams, if they exist I truly dont know how they operate tbh, look at the core classes and elite specs, and get to work. There have been SO MANY WEAPONS and SO MANY TRAITS that have been screamed and yelled about since launch that simply dont do anything. Main example is the Revanent, and how all of its weapons have a use, despite how limited the class is, it can do so much. The Warrior on the flip side is stuck in the past. You cant even tell if the Mace is supposed to be condi or power, and its absolutely terrible despite how great it could be. Warrior, the weaponsmaster, sucks with weapons. Lets not talk about how much weaker melee hammer is compared to revs ranged hammer.
These things keep getting put off or on tables, and its been years. I remember a talk about buffing necro axe. It got the slightest buff ever, after 3 years, and then forgotten again. Now theres a pro league using roughly 3-4 classes for the most part.
Long story short, If my FAVORITE game doesnt turn ME onto PVP, the game mode ive loved since bill clinton was president, theres a lot clearly wrong.
ty
without the circle the rev will look just as bland as warrior
and I love warrior
this post deserves
15 bloodstone dust
Dps calculation don’t mean anything if the method for those calculation are not clear. To say don’t bring a ranger if you want good dps is plain bs.
Was the pet damage included (which pet), did you have 25 stacks of might. Did you use spotter and frost spirite. Did you include the druid damage buff. What weapon did you use. Vs what target. What class are you using as a damage comparison.
Rangers bring a number of unique buffs and while their personal dps isn’t the best (nor the worst) their ability to bump the groups dps out weights any short commings they have.
actually im pretty sure ranger dps is the worst, maybe mesmer is worse, but even that im not sure.
however frost/sun spirit are awesome
in PVE atleast. from HoT until last week there was 2-3 revs in every frac I ran etc now I iusually dont even have one, but ive been seeing 2-4 berserkers per party
Herald reaper and tempest. Tempest is u killable with shouts and aura heals. Reaper can crush and survive anything. I give herald the nod because it’s better at range than reaper and certain things you’ll want to range.
Also, though expensive, I’ve found condi warrior to be extremely great for solo
Unfortunately, there are basically 0 encounters in the game where condi engie is better dps in practice than condi warrior. A supremely skilled condi engie is at best equal to an average condi warrior who understands the build. I say this as a main warrior, but its sad that the balance is so off that one of the hardest builds to play well in the game has a lower dps ceiling than one of the easiest, but thats been a GW2 issue since the start really.
I dont fancy myself a master of math, but are you SURE (like 100%) that condi engi isnt stronger?
You guys seen condi reaper? lmao so good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODtnV2KI7gA
yep I looove it
Revenant condi is way better ! Pain absorption + resistances you get from other mallyx skills make really the difference, imo.
condi rev is trash for pve, pvp whole diff story
Condi war CAN be top dps, takes great placement, and on larger enemies, decimates.
Engi is still overall more powerful against targets that dont move/small targets
Viper necro is weaker than both but can maintain its full dps far easier and reliably
Grossly over performing? Or maybe a ton of other things on core professions are underperforming from 3 years of neglect?
core rev is underperforming so no
this games population is so high that theres dozens of maps open at once, just open lfg and merge because instead of maps filling on their own, it locates you to wheres best for you by guild and such and not by capacity
as title says, plz add condi duration to tactics or defense banner.
ty
Somebody got stomped in ESL by a condi rev? Source?
Dude condi rev in pvp is a ridiculous menace. It’s built for pvp but is meh in pve
Anet,
Isn’t it about time for a response on this thread? This is affecting the morale of your customers and in the end that affects your profit through customer retention and gem store purchases. To be blunt, avoiding this thread for so long is unprofessional and inexplicable. This is the first place you want to resolve issues like these, before they get out into the wider world via other forums. Ignoring this just doesn’t make any business sense. I, like many others, care about this game. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother to discuss this point time and again, as objectively as I can. There is a clear failure of customer relations in this forum and I cannot believe that you are unaware of this. If there is no-one on staff with the training or time to manage this forum and provide at least the impression that you’re listening, hire somebody – even temporarily. Hire an intern and introduce them with the disclaimer that they’re only learning, that they might make mistakes but at least you’re providing a point of contact. The player base will, I’m sure, accept and appreciate the effort. Your customers just want engagement with you. Again, I can’t believe I’m saying anything you’re not already aware of and I cannot guess at the reasons why you keep silent when it’s detrimental to your business, and when some simple customer expectation management – for which there is ample training and resources out there – would benefit your business. Your players don’t expect you to be omnipotent or infallible. They want to help you grow this game. Sometimes they will disagree on your directions but avoiding that discussion isn’t going to make the problem go away, not here and not in any other avenue of life.
This is another great post Zoltar.
It amazed me that they’d take this road right before the holidays, right after the expansion released. Don’t they want the great word of mouth a satisfied customer base will provide them? Perhaps the gift a happy player might bestow on someone who hasn’t played GW2 before? I can’t imagine recommending the game to a friend, or family member right now, let alone, purchasing it for them as a gift. I feel like the graphics touted with the expansion was a bait and switch. I only came back to GW2 a few weeks before the expansion, after having left not too long after Triple Trouble launched and all of the bugs were ignored, forcing many of us who were in on some of the first kills (ugh, the hours spent) to repeatedly go back and repeat things for achievements or rewards. Once I achieved that, bugs and all, I was done, my whole family left.
We heard of the expansion, looked into it, thought we’d give it a go. Both me and my husband had recently (a few months ago) built new systems, and we were really looking forward to playing with maxed out graphics (a far cry from what we were able to do before, but that was on us and we were fine with playing on low/med settings) like our son does (liquid cooling, sapphire video card, yada yada). The expansion hit and we were thrilled. Everything looked great. The spell animations, etc.. then this. It just feels like they said, “psych!”I wish they’d at least give us option to slide the settings, not just take stuff away.
I left a very large insurance company and now work for a much smaller one, and I love it. We were studying large companies and how at a certain point of success mostly all business lose touch with their base. The conclusion thus far anyway, is that once a company sees success from their own doing they feel that their direction is the correct direction, and that steering their crowd is a better idea than speaking to them. In recent years it seems this has changed, as due to social media and the Internet being such a strong presence on reality, more and more large companies have began reaching out and listening and talking to their base.
I hope anet realizes this soon. Their lack of communication has become well known and many people don’t take this game seriously because of it. We never know what direction the game is going so they go back to wow or ff14 or their mobas. Shame really
i actually never miss my steal and i don’t see where this would be a buff. even if you miss, you usually get at least a speedbuff and/or stealth. (depends on your traits)
as a wvw and pve player i see it as a nerf. huge maps – no speedbuff… chasing someone – no speedbuff…
tbh, this patch made just made me put away the wvw gear of my thief into the deepest parts of my bank, because roaming became entirely annyoing with this class. maybe it is even time to move to my warrior/zerker as a main…
Welcome to the dark side brother.
Let’s make it burn
So happy I don’t main ele anymore because these visual changes would make me rip my hair out
This is going to be one of the better examples of what an engineer is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYdHZ-bZuo
If you notice early on, the damage is really high and trumps what a condi necro can do in a similar situation pretty dramatically, but as the fight gets more mobile, you can see that DPS drop dramatically, to only a couple thousand or less in some parts of the fight (in those isolated circumstances). A scepter necro can basically keep up his rotation minimally affected by similar circumstances. The only DPS lost because of movement in this fight for a condi necro would be:
-Some poison cloud ticks
-If the boss exceeds 900+ range from lightning.
-The ability to whirl finish as reaper as often as you can normally due to lightning duty.The long durations of your bleeds means you’ll drop that low much less frequently, if ever, playing properly.
I’d post some footage if I had some of myself, I promise I will when I get my new CPU and RAM.
TLDR: In a stationary situation, a engi will blow necros out of the water. But in any fight with a lot of movement and/or the ability to take advantage of epidemic, it’s going to be at least even, and perhaps necros blowing engis out of the water (but also synergizing with them because of epidemic).
So far, in the 3 encounters we’ve seen I think you can justify bringing a condi reaper to all of them. (Though I’m pretty confident Dom still does more damage than I do overall on VG, people spitting out BS numbers like “25% of what engis do” is clearly absurd.)
good feedback.
I im beginning to think, as a few others have mentioned, that Condi reaper/engi/war together can bring the total highest dps in game. (with might stacks coming from somewhere) the amount of burn and bleeds, and then epidemic for trash, this can (should) be meta for fractals/raids
Whether this is an acceptable risk or not is up to the players and the members of that raid group who are affected by this.
It is an acceptable risk. As much as I love the theory crafters and what they do. Seeing all these wonderfully structured optimal builds that fall into the ‘meta’ category makes me just die a little inside. As then it’s the expected norm for like you said, perhaps a negligible difference.
(edit: Just want to state for the record we’re not going for a PHIW approach. We have everyone fine tuning their builds and getting as much advice as they can, we play with what we have, and we make it work. We find that fun ^^)Theory crafting though doesn’t end with the Classes, it goes on to groups. An example based on what is observed. Guardian Tank, Druid Healer, 1 Berserker, 2 Heralds, 3 Condi-engineers, 1 Chronomancer. and whatever else.
These casts out entire classes, let alone builds or gear. Yes it’s the most optimal way and also the highest chance of success. But if I have to leave my girlfriend who is an Elementalist or my best friend who is a Thief, it becomes a no deal.
I apologise, this was off topic, if you wish to continue this send me a message. Back on topic.
As stated above the condition slots have been filled, one by a condi-engineer, already. I do not have vipers gear, but I have Zerker. I would be interest to hear about this build being compared to other power based builds of other classes. How does it match up?
I will be testing this build over the weekend and will give you full feedback. Ive played almost every possible engi build there is and tested almost everything thrown on this board and always go back to p/p sinister before it was even popular.
Lets go for it
im in a similar boat except im nowhere near new lol.
I played sinister engi engi for a long time and I want to use hammer now but I cant seem to find a build to make it work
I will shamelessly post my Power Scrapper build.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Scrapper-powerbuild-raidsI am thinking about taking out the elixir gun in replacement of slick shoes. But it’s really what ever you fancy.
I like this set up a lot actually. I will test it this weekend as during the week all I do is my fractals and daily for the most part.
I will whisper/ hit your thread with all the info I compile
I’ve been making quite a bit of bank in, get this, Tangled Depths. I’ve been trying to run the meta a lot lately, even though I already have a success on my belt.
Once you’ve navigated the map, the rewards are quite good, even for failed events. Once you’ve gotten a lot of ley-line crystals, buy a crap ton of chak acid and use it to dissolve the crystals that cover the entirety of the map. You’ll get a large amount of random loot.
Also, it is good practice for the Gerent.
actually this is what I do as well, but I do it for the ley line sparks. I took a break from it because ive been working on the legendary axe…. hmmm ty
Warrior’s personal DPS is absurdly high right now in PvE and they’re in really good shape at the moment, what are you two on about?
I’ll agree that as far as group utility is concerned, it’s not as exciting of a class to take anymore but there are still banners and EA and phalanx strength is still a great asset to group play despite it not being absolutely necessary in order for there to be capped might at the table.
As far as survival is concerned, warrior isn’t really a class that should experience much of a problem anywhere in PvE unless you’re in a situation that would probably end up in a disaster on pretty much all other classes as well. Azure you’re right about most of warrior’s heal options being extremely situational, which is why healing signet is generally always the best choice when you actually need to concern yourself about sustaining in combat. It still heals over 20k hp/min, which is significantly higher than what most other classes have.
Now, one thing that I wonder is if you’re trying to exclusively play with the elite spec or if you think warrior in general is in bad shape? There is a problem with the elite spec actually— you have to sacrifice a lot of useful options in order to take it, be it the arms traitline or the discipline one.
Discipline is mainly needed because of fast hands to have a comfortable rotation, whereas arms is needed because of signet mastery and furious however it also has blademaster for reducing sword skill cooldowns. This can be used for a 12s riposte instead of a 15s one, and that results in having blocks available for 18.75% of an encounter. Thats pretty darn good for surviving.
To anybody else that might claim warrior’s current state in PvE for damage is bad hough… seriously, you’re doing something horribly wrong. Both condi builds and direct damage builds are higher now than they were pretty much ever as far as I know since Bloody Roar got that nice 10% damage modifier.
I formerly wasn’t convinced that the current maximum potential of a warrior could compare with the warrior of the pre-ferocity days, but now it’s pretty obvious that it can.
Im happy you came to this thread PM, good to see you.
I agree Berserkers dps is great, especially condi which I will admit I tried sinister/viper as fast as possible and I had no success with it but my build was kitten by bad rune and sigil choices, im glad to see a more patient theorycrafter put together the current condi (meta).
As for Berserker power dps, I too agree it is a beautiful thing, but Its not higher than revs at least from what I can see. I know the numbers said Rev has the highest dps for a power build and I argued that was wrong, but ive been too busy to really test berserker vs rev and decided im prob wrong at this point since ive seen no one else come to berserkers side in this argument.
However, I DO struggle in pve using a power build. NOT for anything group related, but for solo things such as farming currency and such in HoT maps, I just get eaten alive and I truly dont understand it. Half of it is because ive always hated rifle and I feel like its necessary to use for farming in hot (I dont know why tbh). It seems this is user error however since like you said, it shouldnt be difficult at all.
Im happy you agree with me on the healing as most people dont even think about this since theyre so stuck on healing signet. Healing signet IS great, ill never say its not, but I think I prefer the berserkers new heal.
My issue with berserker over all is the core warrior. Fast hands not being baseline, regen on banners not being baseline (I can understand why theyre not, somewhat) and our lack of variety in weapons is somewhat.. disturbing. We have the most weapons in the game and have such limits on what we can use. Mace and Hammer are both great weapons that are limited by either Berserkers F1, or their lack of actual dps.
I can go on and on but theres so many posts about this
Well, imo, one of the reasons, if not the main, Warrior is in a bad spot is that Revenant directly compete with him. Thus direct comparisons are completely justified. And if it’s seen by someone as hatred toward Revenant, I’d say it’s very childish to think that.
Revenant wears heavy armor and has the most recently “tools” if I may say and makes Warrior look really ridiculous. Both are, in a RP way, bruisers with great burst ability.
Revenant can equip less weapons but benefits from Legend swaps and offers more counter-play options. The weapon skills are way too optimized and make us wonder finally why we’d need more weapon access on Warrior?
Warrior can equip way more weapons and got free-access to a lot of utilities, but only 4 or 5 of them are usually taken and became necessity to Warrior’s efficiency (&/survival). The weapon skills are from another age. It’s really outdated… Just the sword-3 on Revenant makes the Warrior’s greatsword-2+3 rook ridiculous..
I think a lot of re-work is needed on Warrior at this point (PvE sorry, but you might benefit from it), giving him right tools. Rework on traits, weapon skills, utilities (healing included) would be really nice and make the class look like a new one.
You can adopt Riot’s policy, as I see you doing it, and you can take a lesson from them and re-work your old / dead classes. We’re allowing you to do it, we’re asking for it…
Anyway, as I’ve seen the Anet on GW2, I’ve lost hope and I’m sure they are just going to do nothing, hoping for miracles, keeping the 0 communication policy.
It makes me sad to see so much “re-work” threads from users, they are giving really good ideas and 100% of them are wasted.
Now concerning your suggestions :
-Mace :
I kind of think is the most well conceived weapon, from a PoV of dev’s making effort into it, not saying they are lazy. I find the damage of the AA’s really good for a control weapon, I’ve found myself surprised by it’s damage, good times…
But berserker’s F1 kind of killed it… the how berserker works… it uses adrenaline and it replace your F1 …. I mean, why would I pick a mace now if I’m playing berserker control oriented burst build. You can’t switch on/off the berserker mode at, meaning it’s unavailability of the normal F1 for 15s, and you can’t use normal F1 and berserker mode… it’s so kittening paradoxical.
And they added a berserker F1 that’s condi oriented… and it doesn’t make more sens, as the weapon itself has no condi oriented skills …. I don’t know what they were thinking. But so yeah, it would add little sens to it they added confusion somewhere (AA like you suggested) even if I don’t like the idea of it going full condi.
I’d also suggest to add little more range to the 3 (or add a leap? but it’d be real op but interesting), and make faster the counterblow (2). The off-hand ones are good, imo, but maybe add a reflect projectile effect on the 5 and lower the CD of 4?-Axe:
Yeah the AA need some love if the 2 and 3 have to be this kittenty… maybe add vulnerability? so this way they can rework the 2… that’s really laughable now.
The 3 has no more reason to exist… as we can’t root/immo with leg specialist (tactics) in a Power/berserk build, and it’s really outdated. Complete rework is need… my suggestion is that either you make it a pull with cripple, or a leap with root/immo (as description: You throw your axe nailing down the foe if hit and do ferocious jump toward him)
The off-hand 4 and 5… are still complete jokes. 5 works better on thief…
My suggestions are : make the off-hand axe a chained one -> 4) you throw your chained axe and pull your enemy toward you. 5) Either add projectile destruction as on the thief one, or as it’s a chained axe, you gain massive range? Or both…-Shield:
4) is fine imo but it needs to work better at close distance -_- it’s badly scripted. when <130 range, I don’t need my char to do a levitation on himself, write on a sign “Attention, I’m doing to stun you, hihi hihi, you better dodge!” and show it to my target… It works better at >130 though…..
5) The mobility is appreciated, either for offensive and defensive options BUT disputable because of the conquest mode. And I must admit that Revenant one is really superior to Warrior shield, the healing changes a lot. Maybe something like : removes all current conditions (= resistance buff though, which would still last little longer after shield stance is off) and give it a breakstun? This would really favor the mobility side of our shield stance.-Hammer :
Revenant hammer, I couldn’t believe when I discovered it was a ranged weapon… xD and I’m not ok with it, that’s why I don’t play it but, who cares…
The engi hammer made warrior one ridiculous too, imo.
I have no really no idea what to change on hammer… it’s always been my fav weapon but since I came back (at HoT launch) I didn’t play it much… No opinion. It should still be good, specially the F1!Anyway there’s so many ideas… and as Anet is stubborn, they won’t consider them. And as they don’t communicate, we shouldn’t support their game ._.
This is great feedback thank you.
I agree with you, Warrior hammer is one of my favorite weapons, but its damage is so poor is unbelievable. It should arguably be our strongest weapon dps wise, with axe being 2nd due to having off hands available. GS is fine how it is, might stacking of course and mobility.
What kills me is anet makes huge changes when they make them, but not to the things we EVER see as the problem, and sometimes it makes the class stronger/better, but we STILL get stuck on the same issues (3 years!!) and the builds have barely changed…
yes I know I could search for it, but im seeing so many diff set ups (which is lovely and makes me grin) and im in the midst of trying to settle down with just 3 professions at most since playing all of them is just.. too much of a hassle.
decided on war rev and nec, POSSIBLY engi replacing rev but we’ll see.
I have a full ascended power reaper already but I want a viper/sinister or whatever set for pve as well. jus looking for whats strongest or closest to meta or whatever ty in advance
nvm theres like 30000 topics on this ill jus research myself
(edited by Azure.8670)
Power scrapper is extremly strong in pve. People overestimate condi engi at this point due DnT dps sheets that say “condi is 22k, power is 20k dps”. Yet some things have changed since then.
Open World and Dungeons
In open world and dungeons, everything that is downscaled, the power scrapper is better than the condi engi, since viper means expertice and that gets downscaled too compared to sinister. Also the new maps barely have mobs that stand still in napalm or fire bombs, especially chak just run away from aoes.
Fractals
In fractals right now condi engi is probably superior past 50ties. Low level the power scrapper is much better due low toughness. At 50~ the condi will have slightly better damage in long fights, but against all the trash the power scrapper is better. For skips etc, sneak gyro, for utility all the new reflection stuff and aoe etc – overall the scrapper with power is a much more powerful ally in fotm than a pure dps 0 utility condi engi. After december, condi engi is probably dead for fotm.
Raids
In raids the bosses have LOW toughness wich favours the power professions. All the dps calculations are against MEDIUM toughness enemies. The condi engis are rare, and needed for VG, but after the 3 condi engis, every additional engi should be a power scrapper due to superior dps, cc, break bar destruction and utility in general.Btw condi engi at VG? No thank you. The condi scrapper with traits 112 and medic gyro instead of HT is superior in terms of mobility due super speed, protection in damage phases where you don’t want to interrupt or green fields in danger zones and more heal for scrapper fellows at red wenn you want to save cc but seekers are near.
The old condi engi, has barely a place in the game right now. Yet people have to realize it first. It’s a mass of sheeps out there who encourage themselves with what they are doing, but barely one of them looks beyond the horizon and tries to kill their darlings to improve.
greez
- ZiggyHi, my engineer just hit 80 and i bought rampager set from karma vendor. I am trying THE different builds and I was wondering if you could point a new engineer in THE right direction? What do I need to farm, get going etc..I have enough wvw badges to buy a berserker set too if that helps for my lower fractals ????
I only recently hit HotA and have not unlocked scrapper fully? Should that be my focus? If so, do I run berserker or rampager to explore there? And what skills do you run on berserker? I only know condi Well! Would really appreciate your input ????
im in a similar boat except im nowhere near new lol.
I played sinister engi engi for a long time and I want to use hammer now but I cant seem to find a build to make it work
You answered the question yourself, since the prices for crafting materials went up its even more profitable to sell them.
You could do two things, first you could farm stuff like metals or wood, there are good maps out there in the www where you can find the best places doing that. Second, if you don’t have a problem with ZergWars, go to the Silver Wastes for chestfarming or places like Cursed Shore for champfarming. Salvage everything you get and sell it.
you know I actually wouldnt mind going to cursed shore again, its been a long time
ive barely RAIDED to be honestly and didnt beat VG but those are my goals for the weekend.
full ascended zerk reaper here, working on viper set
actually I dont think DH has great DPS
It has AMAZING burst damage, but after burst, its kinda meh.
in pve however, bursts destroy most things so DH is fine
wit the dungeon nerf and fracs giving close to nothing, how is everyone making gold?
only way I ever made gold in this game is crafting and sell damask and insignias, but with leather added and the prices shooting up even that has become close to non rewarding
Warrior is horrid in PvP, but it is in better spot than Rev in PvE… I really think the core needs some buffs to make it again viable as right now it is not, in terms of 1v1 it is doing good…. but in team fights and general spvp… Anet halp
Sorry did you just said that Warrior is in better spot in PvE than revenant? Please explain how you came up with that conclusion?
- Best might stacking in the game
- Unique buffs from banners
- Has a top end power and condi build.
In a raid, you’ll never want more than 2 heralds since the boons are just redundant after that and revenants don’t have any non-boon focused dps build that’s worth using. However, you can easily run 2 PS warriors plus some condi warriors in an ideal raid comp.
^This. The Warrior outclasses the rev in terms of DPS, heck ideally for dungeons I would not run a Rev for a speedclear anyways
condi war does more dps than power rev, but power rev surpasses power war
@ Azure,
So basically my mindset is a bit off in thinking we (the group) want survive-ability and DPS in the same build but rather Glass Cannons and Tanks separate?
depends on the content. events and such? sure np
fractals and raids? I dont think so. I mean, YOUR group might like it and thats PERFECTLY fine, but for min maxers which this game is infested with, and I surely am I sadly, no.
Lol, we won’t get nerfed, that much is obvious, sadly we are not the most OP and unable to counter a rev? Pretty much every class can counter a rev easily, thing is we punish and excel on the mistakes of people, not anywhere else really.
You’re def joking right
Nope. I highly doubt it would tantamount to anything, the only thing I expect is a hammer 2 rework. Unless they plan on nerfing a few classes.
Ok ok ur Joking XD
Ive played since HoT Release Rev in PvP and its a bit too strong, the only thing that can counter a Rev easy is a condiclassI’m not. I sincerly hope you are joking, there are a few more counters to a rev then just simple condi.
do you play this class?
do you see how many revs are in the pvp tournie?
do you see … anything?
I dont know if youre testing our rev knowledge or just dont play rev
Honestly though, the Mallyx and condi revs were mostly complaining about PVE. In pvp it was a grey area, and actually still is, but condi rev in pvp was never thought to be terrible or even bad, but I def didnt think it compared with power
Our weapons are fine. Longbow should out damage a mace, since the mace is largely a defensive weapon (although it still outputs respectable damage). The sword is a fine weapon that specializes in mobility, it just falls short in damage because it doesn’t have a nice damage pairing offhand to fill in its weaknesses. If torch was rebuilt to provide a strong DPS increase in the off hand slot then both mace and sword would see a lot more play.
…what…
Torch and Focus are really nice strong DPS offhands (in PvE) so what the hell are you talking about? xd
Also sword doesn’t really provide that great mobility. If it would be warrior sword we’re talking about which is basicly a utility weapon maybe I would agree with you but guard sword utility is tiny, especially in PvE where you don’t use the meh projectile defense or the port at all, apart from skips.
condi berserker here!
just chiming in to let you know that warrior sword is no longer a “utility weapon” as, paired with torch and in viper/sin gear, (pve) I am auto attacking for 900-2000, 1000-4000 bleeds and 5-12k burning per second.
The sword shall rise!!!!
Well the only thing condi berserker is better at than phalanx strength berserker is utility though. At least as far as I know the one thing it’s really good at is spamming imobs on the big adds on gorseval which is a utility thing if you ask me.
condi berserkers is outright more dps but stacks no might
Condi rev can’t compete with other specs at damage, which is what condi is for, pure death.
However in pvp I can def see condi rev working because you don’t need high numbers, just constant ticks which rev will def get