- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights
Things that hardcounter a thief (this is assuming ppl knowing how to use the builds):
1.) DH Meta Trapper
2.) Most condi builds (Condi Chrono, Condi reaper, even Burn Guard can apply enough constant burn, and P/P engi…things with strong condi pressure)
3.) Anything with strong AoE (where facetanking isnt usually an option for teef)
4.) Highly Mobile Zerker
5.) DPS PewPew / Staff Druids (Range and those channeled attacks can be easily fatal)Condi reaper, pp engi and "highly mobile " zerker get hardcountered by the (dp) thief…not the other way around.
Condi reaper can down the DD in 3 ticks of the mass bleed they do and can sustain it and they are usually tanky. While its true that Necros/Reapers are typically easy targets for reapers, one quick condi burst can make it all crash down on the DD (where it takes a bit more burst from the DD to do the same).
p/p engi…my 2nd main class in PvP/WvW…ive destroyed MANY daredevils with it. It can put on more condis than a DD can typically cleanse w/o wasting his shadowstep and siggy, with being a bit tanky and heavy condi sustain, DD’s are ez pz when im on mine. Mobile DPS zerker can typically force all dodges and endurance out of a DD due to their innate amount of HP. GS + x/S make them fairly mobile and with even skill they can take out more than just a DD alone. (now with the recent balance with Headbutt and such, I havent fought a good berzerker since so I cannot elaborate any more on this class/build)
I find (after being in 4 servers) that SF is pretty friendly (I was in CD, DH, JQ and MAG) and I think I know who in CD you are referring to as I clashed when I used to pugmand a lot back then.
Usually T2-3 and lots of roamers/pugmanding opportunities. I personally run havoc/roaming myself. If its somewhere you would consider, look me up in game.
I’ve heard thieves claim that it’s guardian, but thieves often choose to attack guardians and seen them do so with great success.
Dh do have that reveal added on their f2.
Some of us thieves are…shall we say…kitteny? The only way to learn to beat DH is by fighting them right?
I try…sometimes I win, sometimes I lose but technically DH should be able to beat a teef on equal skill level.
Can we be more specific here? I’d like to know your opinion.
Sure, as mentioned by myself and others in this thread, thief is much more forgiving of mistakes than it used to be, especially since HoT was released and people learned how to play the new spec.
It used to be true that a single mistake (or maybe two) would mean death for a glass thief if the enemy knew to capitalize on it, but not so much now. The unparalleled mobility (not just the best, which would be fine, but another league), combined with the number of evades available (often attached to damaging skills), traits like Unhindered Combatant, and the low cd on Bandit’s Defense, gives even fairly inexperienced players room to be effective and plenty of chances if they make a mistake.
Whether that means nerfs are in order is debatable. My personal preference would be to see some of that toned down to increase the risk in small scale, while buffing to give the profession more large scale value. Regardless, thieves really don’t have that “live fast, die young” thing going anymore.
While true the thief has more mitigation methods then before and can be more forgiving of mistakes it also true that power creep has happened on the other side to the persons the thief is fighting against. Fights across the board have been extended to a degree so the “make a mistake thing” is relative. Where in the past it might have been " a thief makes one mistake and dies" it becomes “a thief makes two mistakes and dies” whereas with other classes it might have been “a XXXX can make 4 mistakes and dies , becoming an XXX can make 6 mistakes and dies’.” (quotations for purposes of example)
In relative terms the thief is still fragile in this regard. It certainly has a greater ability to survive a mistake but then so does everyone else. A lot of that “salt” in my opinion is because those fighting a thief can no longer as easily capitalize on that single mistake.
You just became my hero. People still want thief/DD to be a quick kill…1 quick burst and they are done….with HoT, they now stand a chance (Extra dodge and some that use Bandits Defense). This doesn’t make them OP, just finally able to make 1 small – mid mistake without getting blown up and this is ticking people off that they cannot kill them as easily. (Well…some classes can still blow them up but now it takes a bit of skill).
Equal skill, thieves are still the same but as you mentioned (very awesomely may I add) people can’t capitalize on it as easily as they could due to an extra dodge or BD and I find seem people don’t want to “re-train” themselves on how to do this.
From what I’ve seen LGN guild left, quickcry, and a few friends I got took off the for the coast from JQ.
Reverse of the bandwagon affect in action to be honest, just the way it is.
LGN moving servers is nothing new tbh. They move quire frequently. I Wonder what server they moved to this time (think I may have seen some on FA but I could be wrong).
Things that hardcounter a thief (this is assuming ppl knowing how to use the builds):
1.) DH Meta Trapper
2.) Most condi builds (Condi Chrono, Condi reaper, even Burn Guard can apply enough constant burn, and P/P engi…things with strong condi pressure)
3.) Anything with strong AoE (where facetanking isnt usually an option for teef)
4.) Highly Mobile Zerker
5.) DPS PewPew / Staff Druids (Range and those channeled attacks can be easily fatal)
Imo its because ppl complained about the power creep post HoT so anet reduced some DPS and increased some Condi…kinda like a “Be careful what you wish for” scenario.
Like the title suggests, I am currently using a variation of a burn DH for PvP and have a not so effective one for WvW (Love the PvP build tho but feel like it could do better and the one son Metabattle are trash) however I am looking for a non meta build for both of these modes. I main thief atm but always was interested in Burn Guard/DH.
Thanks in advanced
Problem is. What is a ‘good match up?’ I’d like to hear it from ANET, and I guess you too. Can’t really claim to have that goal if there isn’t a definition for it really. I can only assume it means even competition but even that’s vague.
TBH, you will never get a good match up for anything that last longer than 2 hours (e.g. we’d have to abandon 24/7 persistence). That’s if you want things mildly competitive past a gauge of who plays longer like the current WvW.
My definition that leads to good Match-Ups…would have us opening restaurants.
Why not treat each server like a restaurant?
Players are both Owner & a Customer of restaurants.
Really good restaurants naturally attract a lot of customers.
Allow owners & customers to visit any restaurant using World Guesting.
In this solution…players don’t Guest to other Server’s Home BL to defend it.
Players Guest to their Customer’s restaurant to wreck it.
Players can only defend the restaurant that they Own.
- Use World Guesting & “tailor” it for WvW to let players pick their own match-ups, but keep track of their server fight choices…then weekly limit players on how many & which servers that they can fight on. Player’s choices then get reset every week to keep things fresh.
- Give each World Server a single Home map to defend…then allow players to visit any Enemy World Server BL map to fight on…within their weekly limits. The number of maps that a single World Server has to defend can later be increased/decreased to accommodate player capacity demands.
Reserve seating for Owners, Customers, and ANet (Health Department).
45% = Owner Seating
45% = Customer Seating
10% = ANet SeatingOwners & Customers are allowed to visit any restaurant, but will need to wait if they expect to get a table at a #1 Ranked Restaurant.
Let Owners & Customers figure out for themselves if they want to wait or visit another restaurant if tables (maps) are full.
The solution is practical & it already works in the real world when you go out for dinner.
Yours truly,
Diku
For a Better Long Term Solution to WvW – Try a Google Search for – wvg world vs globes
1.) I really like this. This would def take some time and dedication for ANet to work this system out, but its fesable
2.) kitten you , I am hungry now
This is what I run…if you dont have Trailblazer gear, Dire also works well. You can also swap a sigil for Smoldering for extra burn duration.
I personally am going for full Trailblazer. This is also a vanilla build as I find scrapper doesn’t offer enough for a good condi build (although you could swap Inventions for Scrapper and take the sneak gyro).
I have very little issues in PvP/WvW running this (PvP I use deadshot ammy and sometimes replace FT for Elixir C or U and replace Juggernaut for Incendiary Powder)
I main a thief in all game modes atm and started using a burn DH vs teefs is too easy (well…vs most classes/builds anyway)
Thieves are in no way OP…unbalanced? hmmm thats questionable but there are way more classes/builds that need to be looked at before thieves. Thieves are not in THAT bad of a position compared to most.
YAY, creating more bandwagoning and causing more issues for WvW.
Rifle isn’t bad by any means, 3 attacks synergize with each other and Jump Shot is pretty potent, however there are not many that do run it anymore as it doesnt offer the same balance of DPS/Utility as the hammer. You have an immob and CC and a (blast?) finisher on Rifle with some range, but hammer you get might stacking on AA, Reflect and whirl finisher on 2, Leap/Evade on 3, 10 stack vauln/block on 4, Field/Stun/Vuln on 5 so every attack had a useful effect.
Damage wise, AA on Hammer is more than 2x stronger (despite might stacking), self finisher (5 for field and 3/2 for finisher) which can provide more CC than rifle.
Imo only plus to rifle are the range (although 2 hammer attacks are 1000 range) and the #3-#5 abilities have smaller CD than hammer.
Kinda like on a p/p engi build (condi) questioning if you should take shield or off hand pistol. Shield will work, but pistol is a better/stronger weapon for the build.
I really hate it when I get immob’d by thief stolen nets and jellyfish pets in PvP.
ikr its a pain. OP plz nerf
This is what happens when you give professions way to much stability, They don’t even realize how much CC there is now.
“how often do you get immobed, dash away and instantly get immobed again?”
Every Time you Engage an opponent, What kind of players do you fight? even in bronze tier NA they know enough to stack CC. It’s like you don’t even play this game.Stability doesn’t even effect immobilizes though, stability access is completely irrelevant when tolking about immobs.
Also few builds can apply immob twice.
Warrior – has no immobs
Guard – has one on scepter, zero otherwise
Power rev – none
Condi rev -none
Ranger – 2-3 depending on build
Thief – 1 if traited, a spammable one if and only if they have mainhand pistol
Scrapper – none
Necro – none
Ele – none
Mesmer – none.
Warrior – Brutal Shot (Rifle), Pin Down (LB), Throw Bolas (Utility), Flurry (sword), Rupturing Smash (Hammer), Leg Specialist (Traited)
Guard – Hammer 3, Signet of Wrath, Scepter 3, Wings of Resolve (Traited), Wrath of Justice (Traited)
Revenant – Shackling Wave (OH Sword), Grasping Earth (Downed), Momentary Pacification (Traited)
Ranger – Vine Surge (Staff), Muddy Terrain (Utility), Entangle (Elite), Crippling Shot (SB), 5 pets have immob (Spider, Red Jellyfish, Krytan Drakehound and Black Widow/Jungle Spider), Quicksand (Stone Spirit), Natural Convergence (C.Avatar), Ancient Seeds
Thief – Bodyshot (Pistol 2), Infiltrators Strike (Sword), Impairing Daggers (Utility), Needle Trap, Devourers Venom, Surprise Shot (stealth SB), Throw Net (Stolen), Panic Strike
Necro – Dark Pact (Dagger), Rigor Mortis (Bone Fiend), Tainted Shackles (Shroud)
Ele – Magnetic Grasp (MH Dagger), Shock wave (Staff), Aftershock (Utility), Signet of Earth (Utility), Overload (Earth), Grasping earth (Downed), Elemental Surge (Traited)
Mesmer – Swap (Sword, Illusionary Leap), Chaotic Interruption (Traited…this one gives access to lots of immob)
Engi – Glue Shot (Pistol 5), Net Shot (Rifle), Net Turret (Utility), Streamlined Kits (Traited for EGun), Glue Bomb (Bomb Kit), Net Attack (Net Turret)
Whew…There…Fixed it for you
You didn’t specify what builds you were referring to, so technically there are lots of different builds so I helped you and did the work…Your welcome
Daredevil is really forgiving relative to core.
Condi in general is really forgiving.So you can see where this is going.
Until they round out most of the elite specs and not make them overpowered, everyone’s gonna be salty. But this is extremely unlikely because it would require major overhauls and ANet doesn’t do those.
A slight correction for you btw Choppy; the old Nike warrior actually had higher landspeed than the thief unless the thief ran an entire build of gap-closers and initiative restores (really bad for anything but strictly moving around, unlike Nike Warrior having some potency from Strength/Defense traitlines), at the cost of no vertical mobility. Depending on what environment you were in, this was a back-and-forth between the two. Obviously it now favors Daredevil in all environments.
Daredevil is a bit more forgiving relative to core.
Fixed it for ya
Wouldn’t go as far as to say “really” forgiving but due ot the extra dodge (with effects) does make it a bit forgiving.
They have even more tools to beat thieves and high-mobility classes in general when running GS.
No lie, Eremite, in a lot of those fights, you could have outright ended them with a single well-timed GD. Staff did almost nothing for you a majority of the time.
tbh any fights where a GS reaper are involved are not as hard as condi or even axe (range dps). GD is really strong, thats no secret, but it’s too telegraphed and slow so its easily avoidable (the nerf to warriors headbutt got nothing on GD’s clunkiness). If Aney sped GD up a bit, then maybe GS can be viewed as a more serious DPS choice.
A tether is something that has something visible that attaches one person to another for a certain period of time (DH Spear of Justice, Druids Elite Siggy…etc)
On topic, I regularly avoid stomping people who are obviously new to fighting real people or the game mode. I’ve also pulled them aside for duels and to give them advice on how to play better.
We need new people to stay in wvw, and the early learning curve (and resulting frustration) can be harsh. I’m also more interested in better fights than whatever garbage they’ll drop if I kill them.
Ive made some WvW friends by letting some ppl live (those not taking any camps ofc, sentries are ok). Good duels and good times. The odd time you will get that one person who doesn’t like to be shown respect and will burst you right after they get up but w/e…if that makes you feel better about losing a fight then thats your problem
Hello my fellow WvWvW fighters.
Currently returning to Guild Wars 2 after a good 6 or so month break. At the moment i resign in FA (Fort Aspenwood) and i want to become a frequent contender in the WvWvW scene. The problem i am facing is what server to choose! FA is by any means not a bad world, but its not what I’m looking for.
Sounds strange but i want to be apart of the zerg! Colossal armies fighting each other constantly, with as minimal down time as possible. All of while listening to a experienced commander who is able to get his army to listen and follow every command. As i said above, FA is not a bad world but being a tier 3 server, we see barely any zerg fights and the server at many times can be very dead.
I have spent awhile looking at the different forums of the different servers but the amount of access i have to them is very limited.
So if anyone could help me out deciding what server to choose, that would be great! I’m not looking for a winning server or a server that steam rolls, just a server where the battles are fun and thrilling!As a side note, I am from the UK however i am not limiting my self to only American servers or only European servers. I started on an American server as the population was very high, but now with the introduction of mega servers it does not matter which i choose.
Thanks for Helping!
Elliott / Buster
What you are looking for (mindless blobbing), MAG/BG/JQ are your best bets (ill refrain from poking fun at these servers for now)
FA does have good zerg fights and FA is also a T2/T3 server so they do see a lot of action at times (inb4 im not on FA).
But if its skillless zerging you prefer, then bandwagoning to one of the above mentioned servers are your best bet
Not siding with any of these classes (as I dont main neither), but necro has minions and a way to spec to be tankier when they are out (also they make good meat shields and another form of damage/utility). Necro has wells that force any melee berserker to stand in them, thus potentially blinding. Necro has Projectile blocks and are fairly tanky as well, eben if spec’d as DPS (Yes the 2nd HP bar does count. It doesnt heal like a HP bar but it does mitigate damage such as one).
Berserker does have lots of blocks, stab and a painful burst, however blind them and they are kitten.
Corrupt boon is also now deadlier to a berserker now that they don’t pulse boons as much as they used to.
(edited by Bigpapasmurf.5623)
Condi Engi is fairly outclassed by meta builds and you negate a lot of its pressure if you stick to range or use Survival/pet transfer/Druid traits and skills. If they stealth up for Magnet combo, stunbreak/stability/stealth and negate that.
Well….I def wouldn’t say is “fairly outclassed” by meta builds. I have a condi vanilla engi (as I havent found a good scrapper build I liked again yet) that can topple a lot of the meta builds. A lot also do not use Magnet as well (thats mainly condi scrappers that do). Range is a good counter, however with our access to stealth, CC and pistols have a bit of range, we don’t need to get THAT close to a pewpew ranger before we make them panic.
The best counter to a condi build is a condi build that can send the condis right back (yay necro). Condi builds typically have sup par condi cleanses and if they do, they are sacrificing condi damage/sustain to have it.
This is what happens when you give professions way to much stability, They don’t even realize how much CC there is now.
“how often do you get immobed, dash away and instantly get immobed again?”
Every Time you Engage an opponent, What kind of players do you fight? even in bronze tier NA they know enough to stack CC. It’s like you don’t even play this game.
BAZINGA
Sorry, just wanted to say it.
For those still salty, there is a post in WvW forum on teaching people how to fight a thief. Maybe pro thieves here can go share more there so people will be be less salty =D
There’s not really much more that can be added to help people kick our kitten lol.
tbh Ive seen more berserkers take thieves out than the other way around. Maybe there are a lot of bad thieves out there or maybe there are bad berserkers but this is what I have noticed.
The changes to Headbutt, Shield Bash, and Arc Divider should tip that scale. We’ll have to see, but those increased telegraphs and slowed burst give thieves more breathing room to work with.
This I have no doubt will help, however a few of thieves I know havent come across a fair fight vs berserker to really test out (Well…I lie…Ive come across one we were partied with in WvW from another server and attacked them…they attached back but I was beating them down til another person stepped in from my side). No idea if they tried HB tho…tbh I dont know if many people know what the animation looks like.
This is def going to be tested. In theory it till help, however its a theory.
As for the shield nerf…that was un-needed imo. Arc needed range or damaged toned down so it was weird the nerf that got instead. despite the warmup times, the quickness going to god mode (rage mode) still makes the burst quick (i don’t know what the animation is for HB so I just get in, do some damage and gtfo as usually you guys try headbutt as soon as you are in range).
Also imo, the speed of headbutt was fine, as was the range, however i think that if the amount of adrenaline was scaled back about 50%, that would have been fine. That way HB isnt as sluggish and even though it wouldn’t instafill the rage bar, it still makes it jump a bunch. Just a couple of AA’s after and you would be golden.
there’s also a fair amount of warrior salt kitten all passive blocks, easy to play I just hit my skills on cooldown, low skill threshold, thiefs are the best blah blah blah and they wonder why people get angry? its nonsense thiefs 1v1 warriors everytime and seek them out so why call for nerfs? on the grandisio ‘behalf of the game’ its all delusional.
tbh Ive seen more berserkers take thieves out than the other way around. Maybe there are a lot of bad thieves out there or maybe there are bad berserkers but this is what I have noticed.
Glad I don’t use/never used the healing turret
#NoEngiProblemsForMe
Hard to take OP seriously when they complain a A LOT about teefs, berserkers and mesmers (33% of all the classes). Sounds like they are salty and looking to vent on the forums (which isnt a bad thing).
Kinda interested on knowing what class they typically play, however beign the nice Canadian I am..
OP: If you want practice fighting vs thieves/DD’s, if you are on NA I am offering to be your sparring partner. As I mentioned, just sounds like that well known PvP toxic salt that PvP instills on some so I am offering my assistance. Hit me up in game if interested, id be more than happy to help…maybe I can even help you adapt to fighting them like a good player does.
yawn
I have over 20k games played and over 2k plus on each profession (3k on thief). I have 52 characters on my one account with various builds. I’ve tested hundreds if not thousands of builds out. Please, it’s quite obvious when things aren’t healthy for the game and it’s painstakingly when people want to protect their profession instead of advancing the game.
You can state any fact that makes your kitten hard, doesnt change any fact that other players have stated. The fact you felt the need to state what you did, how you did, means little to nothing to me and shows me that you have no more valid points to make toward this discussion.
You don’t know any other player, nor do you know whether or not people have more experience than you. Just because you have “2k on all professions and 3k on teef” doesn’t necessarily mean you are any good at them. There are better ways of having a discussion without bringing that pompous toxic pvp attitude into it.
For someone that “knows it all and played it all”, you would think you wouldn’t be as salty and be more willing to l2p vs thief.
Also..despite how “pro” you want to make yourself out as, there’s always room for improvement. My offer still stands if you want to l2p vs thief. I am not pro, but I am not bad either.
Wow, someone got all in their feelings. Stating an opinion doesn’t make it a fact. People have expressed opinions all through this thread.
Please note, you were the one who asked what I played.
Again, whatever makes your kitten hard mate. Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree. Cheers
/bow
Watched your twitch…clicking in this game………………………………………………………………………………Can’t laugh hard enough or long enough. Q ball
You really are trying to make that kitten hard aren’t you? Its kinda sad really, laughtign b/c someone clicks, you must really lead an exciting life. Gl on your future fights mate. You already lost
I’m watching your gameplay. To put it kindly, you’re not very good. Yet, you want to try to jump in a conversation and question the level of the person who made a post instead of the merits of the post. If we’re going to review level of play, you’re in no position to speak on the subject matter. That’s the direction you wanted to take this post. Again, you got all up in your feels for nothing.
I’m in game now, feel free to join me.
HAHAHA . Its cute you are still pushing…sad but cute. Clearly this is getting nowhere and you seem to want to prove something for your soft kitten so i iz out…Again, gl on your ventures.
I wasn’t trying to prove anything. You were the one who wanted to try to make things personal. You want to practice dueling. I’ll practice with you.
Welp, im always up for a new dueling partner. I’m not home atm, nor wilI be for another 7ish hours. If you are serious about dueling for practice (as opposed to trying to make yourself look big) then im game. ill hit ya up next time you are on. Someone as experienced at every class as yourself should be more than happy to teach someone to better their class.
Hard to take OP seriously when they complain a A LOT about teefs, berserkers and mesmers (33% of all the classes). Sounds like they are salty and looking to vent on the forums (which isnt a bad thing).
Kinda interested on knowing what class they typically play, however beign the nice Canadian I am..
OP: If you want practice fighting vs thieves/DD’s, if you are on NA I am offering to be your sparring partner. As I mentioned, just sounds like that well known PvP toxic salt that PvP instills on some so I am offering my assistance. Hit me up in game if interested, id be more than happy to help…maybe I can even help you adapt to fighting them like a good player does.
yawn
I have over 20k games played and over 2k plus on each profession (3k on thief). I have 52 characters on my one account with various builds. I’ve tested hundreds if not thousands of builds out. Please, it’s quite obvious when things aren’t healthy for the game and it’s painstakingly when people want to protect their profession instead of advancing the game.
You can state any fact that makes your kitten hard, doesnt change any fact that other players have stated. The fact you felt the need to state what you did, how you did, means little to nothing to me and shows me that you have no more valid points to make toward this discussion.
You don’t know any other player, nor do you know whether or not people have more experience than you. Just because you have “2k on all professions and 3k on teef” doesn’t necessarily mean you are any good at them. There are better ways of having a discussion without bringing that pompous toxic pvp attitude into it.
For someone that “knows it all and played it all”, you would think you wouldn’t be as salty and be more willing to l2p vs thief.
Also..despite how “pro” you want to make yourself out as, there’s always room for improvement. My offer still stands if you want to l2p vs thief. I am not pro, but I am not bad either.
Wow, someone got all in their feelings. Stating an opinion doesn’t make it a fact. People have expressed opinions all through this thread.
Please note, you were the one who asked what I played.
Again, whatever makes your kitten hard mate. Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree. Cheers
/bow
Watched your twitch…clicking in this game………………………………………………………………………………Can’t laugh hard enough or long enough. Q ball
You really are trying to make that kitten hard aren’t you? Its kinda sad really, laughtign b/c someone clicks, you must really lead an exciting life. Gl on your future fights mate. You already lost
I’m watching your gameplay. To put it kindly, you’re not very good. Yet, you want to try to jump in a conversation and question the level of the person who made a post instead of the merits of the post. If we’re going to review level of play, you’re in no position to speak on the subject matter. That’s the direction you wanted to take this post. Again, you got all up in your feels for nothing.
I’m in game now, feel free to join me.
HAHAHA . Its cute you are still pushing…sad but cute. Clearly this is getting nowhere and you seem to want to prove something for your soft kitten so i iz out…Again, gl on your ventures.
Hard to take OP seriously when they complain a A LOT about teefs, berserkers and mesmers (33% of all the classes). Sounds like they are salty and looking to vent on the forums (which isnt a bad thing).
Kinda interested on knowing what class they typically play, however beign the nice Canadian I am..
OP: If you want practice fighting vs thieves/DD’s, if you are on NA I am offering to be your sparring partner. As I mentioned, just sounds like that well known PvP toxic salt that PvP instills on some so I am offering my assistance. Hit me up in game if interested, id be more than happy to help…maybe I can even help you adapt to fighting them like a good player does.
yawn
I have over 20k games played and over 2k plus on each profession (3k on thief). I have 52 characters on my one account with various builds. I’ve tested hundreds if not thousands of builds out. Please, it’s quite obvious when things aren’t healthy for the game and it’s painstakingly when people want to protect their profession instead of advancing the game.
You can state any fact that makes your kitten hard, doesnt change any fact that other players have stated. The fact you felt the need to state what you did, how you did, means little to nothing to me and shows me that you have no more valid points to make toward this discussion.
You don’t know any other player, nor do you know whether or not people have more experience than you. Just because you have “2k on all professions and 3k on teef” doesn’t necessarily mean you are any good at them. There are better ways of having a discussion without bringing that pompous toxic pvp attitude into it.
For someone that “knows it all and played it all”, you would think you wouldn’t be as salty and be more willing to l2p vs thief.
Also..despite how “pro” you want to make yourself out as, there’s always room for improvement. My offer still stands if you want to l2p vs thief. I am not pro, but I am not bad either.
Wow, someone got all in their feelings. Stating an opinion doesn’t make it a fact. People have expressed opinions all through this thread.
Please note, you were the one who asked what I played.
Again, whatever makes your kitten hard mate. Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree. Cheers
/bow
Watched your twitch…clicking in this game………………………………………………………………………………Can’t laugh hard enough or long enough. Q ball
You really are trying to make that kitten hard aren’t you? Its kinda sad really, laughtign b/c someone clicks, you must really lead an exciting life. Gl on your future fights mate. You already lost
Hard to take OP seriously when they complain a A LOT about teefs, berserkers and mesmers (33% of all the classes). Sounds like they are salty and looking to vent on the forums (which isnt a bad thing).
Kinda interested on knowing what class they typically play, however beign the nice Canadian I am..
OP: If you want practice fighting vs thieves/DD’s, if you are on NA I am offering to be your sparring partner. As I mentioned, just sounds like that well known PvP toxic salt that PvP instills on some so I am offering my assistance. Hit me up in game if interested, id be more than happy to help…maybe I can even help you adapt to fighting them like a good player does.
yawn
I have over 20k games played and over 2k plus on each profession (3k on thief). I have 52 characters on my one account with various builds. I’ve tested hundreds if not thousands of builds out. Please, it’s quite obvious when things aren’t healthy for the game and it’s painstakingly when people want to protect their profession instead of advancing the game.
You can state any fact that makes your kitten hard, doesnt change any fact that other players have stated. The fact you felt the need to state what you did, how you did, means little to nothing to me and shows me that you have no more valid points to make toward this discussion.
You don’t know any other player, nor do you know whether or not people have more experience than you. Just because you have “2k on all professions and 3k on teef” doesn’t necessarily mean you are any good at them. There are better ways of having a discussion without bringing that pompous toxic pvp attitude into it.
For someone that “knows it all and played it all”, you would think you wouldn’t be as salty and be more willing to l2p vs thief.
Also..despite how “pro” you want to make yourself out as, there’s always room for improvement. My offer still stands if you want to l2p vs thief. I am not pro, but I am not bad either.
Wow, someone got all in their feelings. Stating an opinion doesn’t make it a fact. People have expressed opinions all through this thread.
Please note, you were the one who asked what I played.
Again, whatever makes your kitten hard mate. Looks like were going to have to agree to disagree. Cheers
/bow
Hard to take OP seriously when they complain a A LOT about teefs, berserkers and mesmers (33% of all the classes). Sounds like they are salty and looking to vent on the forums (which isnt a bad thing).
Kinda interested on knowing what class they typically play, however beign the nice Canadian I am..
OP: If you want practice fighting vs thieves/DD’s, if you are on NA I am offering to be your sparring partner. As I mentioned, just sounds like that well known PvP toxic salt that PvP instills on some so I am offering my assistance. Hit me up in game if interested, id be more than happy to help…maybe I can even help you adapt to fighting them like a good player does.
yawn
I have over 20k games played and over 2k plus on each profession (3k on thief). I have 52 characters on my one account with various builds. I’ve tested hundreds if not thousands of builds out. Please, it’s quite obvious when things aren’t healthy for the game and it’s painstakingly when people want to protect their profession instead of advancing the game.
You can state any fact that makes your kitten hard, doesnt change any fact that other players have stated. The fact you felt the need to state what you did, how you did, means little to nothing to me and shows me that you have no more valid points to make toward this discussion.
You don’t know any other player, nor do you know whether or not people have more experience than you. Just because you have “2k on all professions and 3k on teef” doesn’t necessarily mean you are any good at them. There are better ways of having a discussion without bringing that pompous toxic pvp attitude into it.
For someone that “knows it all and played it all”, you would think you wouldn’t be as salty and be more willing to l2p vs thief.
Also..despite how “pro” you want to make yourself out as, there’s always room for improvement. My offer still stands if you want to l2p vs thief. I am not pro, but I am not bad either.
If a necro is on point he is a free kill because he can’t kite.
I find that if a necro utilizes chill, or grasping hand, or spectral walk, they can kite a bit…maybe not as much as most classes but they can still kite a bit.
But when you’re on a point you can’t kite.
You can’t kite when confined to a point because you are working in a confined zone. Hence a necro on point is a free kill.Same can be said about most classes. Necros dont need to kite with the chills/pulls/fear/CttB will slow down/stop his opponent for them to receive some pain. Its about being a smart necro/reaper.
Except necro will lose pretty much every flatground matchup except support builds.
Necros have to kite, if the necro doesn’t kite the necro is dead. and you can’t kite while holding a tiny circle. Brawling with a necro is suicide.
Support and condi. A Reaper doesnt need to kite to win a fight (on point of not). There are several reaper players out there that I have seen who can prove this (im not good with names however as idc about remembering good class players of any class).
Like teefs, necros werent meant to really fight on point. Teef is meant to decap and +1 fights where necros/reapers excel in teamfights…however there are those that can fight on point for both reapers and teefs.
I agree that reapers need some more mobility (and this coming from a teef main), however to go as far as what you are saying is something we’re going to have to agree to disagree as I have seen otherwise.
If a necro is on point he is a free kill because he can’t kite.
I find that if a necro utilizes chill, or grasping hand, or spectral walk, they can kite a bit…maybe not as much as most classes but they can still kite a bit.
But when you’re on a point you can’t kite.
You can’t kite when confined to a point because you are working in a confined zone. Hence a necro on point is a free kill.
Same can be said about most classes. NEcros dont need to kite with the chills/pulls/fear/CttB will slow down/stop his opponent for them to receive some pain. Its about being a smart necro/reaper.
If a necro is on point he is a free kill because he can’t kite.
I find that if a necro utilizes chill, or grasping hand, or spectral walk, they can kite a bit…maybe not as much as most classes but they can still kite a bit.
Hard to take OP seriously when they complain a A LOT about teefs, berserkers and mesmers (33% of all the classes). Sounds like they are salty and looking to vent on the forums (which isnt a bad thing).
Kinda interested on knowing what class they typically play, however beign the nice Canadian I am..
OP: If you want practice fighting vs thieves/DD’s, if you are on NA I am offering to be your sparring partner. As I mentioned, just sounds like that well known PvP toxic salt that PvP instills on some so I am offering my assistance. Hit me up in game if interested, id be more than happy to help…maybe I can even help you adapt to fighting them like a good player does.
Pretty sire I read somewhere that anet was working on some sort of priority system so the players can choose which to cleanse first (im too lazy to look for the source)
The same red circle that your marks can almost completely cover? Must be rough.
Its def no secret that there are unbalanced classes in the game, however as someone who started out as a noob teef about 2-3 months ago I can say that if a thief makes a mistake, its always fatal so there’s very little “forgiveness” unless the opponent(s) don’t catch it (in which the opponent is part blame).
I just don’t see it like that anymore. Used to be true, but not any more.
For example, it used to be that you might be able to lock a thief down with immobilize or with a well timed stun (after baiting out Hard to Catch and Shadow Step). Now immobilize is removed on dodge (and there are more dodges than ever) and, in addition to the aforementioned stun defenses, you’ve got Bandit’s Defense on a 15s cd.
When you combine the ability to not be held down with the amount of easy mobility available to the class (through teleporting, movement speed, movement skills), stealth, and evades built into high damage skills, it makes for very forgiving builds that very low skill players can get a lot of mileage on. Combine that with melee and medium range options on most builds, and that’s a big toolkit.
That doesn’t mean no thieves have skill (obviously), nor that thieves will win every fight. But I regularly fight thieves who eat nearly every burst I put out (I play zerk gear warrior, have some really obvious tells), yet they can squeeze a lot of do-overs into that fight that isn’t a product of skill.
Like I said before, I see how thief is kitten in other areas. That’s why I’d support buffing the thief in some respects while also doing things to address issues like unparalleled escape potential and either reducing the reward (damage) in small scale or increasing the risk.
EDIT: I do know that other classes have their own issues that need to be addressed, including stuff that really bones thieves. I don’t think warriors pose much of a threat to thieves anymore post-patch, but others do, sure.
I can respect what you are saying. A lot of thieves (not I or the 6-7 other thieves I know) run Bandits defense as its the only thing they have to eat bursts if they are unprepared for it (as in unable to stealth or shadowstep away). I agree that Bandits Defense needs to be toned down (either set the CD to 20s or remove the CC on it or remove the “stun breaker” on it). I Assume that, like scrappers Stealth Gyro or half of the hammer skills, this will also be changed/toned down down the road.
Berserkers still post a threat once you bait out the BD, just means they have to do a bit more work (wont take much tho)
As a Reaper main, I feel for the OP as good thieves can sometimes feel almost like a hard-counter similar to a long-range bow druid.
perhaps a well-played thieve really is going to be a hardcounter to all reaper builds but one can always learn how to lessen the threat.
Even Reapers can increase their chances to kill good thieves.
Reapers have the tools, however its their mobility (or lack thereof) that helps teefs have a chance. If you had better mobility then teefs wouldn’t be much of an issue.
Does thief have invuls, huge HP sponge, high access to blocks and multiple heals, stab? No. All they have is [the ability to be invulnerable three times on tiny cooldown] [total invisibility]
When I change it to what it means it suddenly doesn’t seem so weak, does it?
You also missed out the ability to be half way across the map in the blink of an eye and massive burst with no cooldowns.
Not OP at all… #BlameMcLain
No Cooldowns HAHAHAHA, you are cute. As mentioned, a thief only has stealth and dodging as their defense against everything (also as mentioned, no stab/immob/little evades/little passives/small condi clears…etc)
Things that counter Thief:
Revealed (DH, Scrapper/Engi, Rev/Herald, Druid/Ranger)
Moderate Condi Pressure (All classes)
AoE (Bereserkers/Wars, Tempests/Eles, Reapers/Necros)
CC’s Soft and Hard due to lack of stab and reliance on mobility (All Classes)
Range attacks (pewpew Druid/Ranger, DH LB)
Yeah, thieves are OP because they only have stealth and a bit better mobility than all but 2 classes (Nike Warriors and Mesmers can catch a teef). Most of these weaknesses mentioned are in most builds and if not, then the problem is the QQing player, not the thief.
If one can move halfway across in the “blink of an eye” they either they are hacking, someone is lagging, or you are exaggerating (bet I can guess which is more possible).
Even before I started playign thief about 2-3 months(ish) ago I had very little issues with them on my Engi/crapper, Warrior/Berserker, Guard/DH and Ranger/Druid. Either Adapt when you know you are going to face one (like most good players do) or l2p with your current build. Simple as that
/bow
Well, speaking only about small scale and 1v1 in wvw, I find thief has way too much forgiveness to it. It’s no longer a matter of highly skilled people being able to pull off dramatic wins through a high risk:high reward playstyle. It now allows average and low skill players to recover from countless mistakes to eventually win through attrition.
As a point of comparison, people used to complain a lot about Nike warriors in the same way. The current incarnation of daredevil puts the old Nike warrior to shame in terms of mobility, but also has far more cheesy build options and requires much less in terms of sacrifices or tradeoffs.
For example, a standard d+p/sb thief has way more in and out of combat mobility than the old Nike warrior, way more burst, way more defense potential, the same old control over fight initiation that always caused salt to be thrown at thieves, and then loads of burst.
So I get the salt from that perspective, but I can’t deny the limitations of the class in other contexts. I’d personally like to see the thief to be evened out with other classes in small scale and simultaneously buffed to expand its usefulness in other aspects of the game.
Its def no secret that there are unbalanced classes in the game, however as someone who started out as a noob teef about 2-3 months ago I can say that if a thief makes a mistake, its always fatal so there’s very little “forgiveness” unless the opponent(s) don’t catch it (in which the opponent is part blame).
There is also a lot of good “risk vs reward” fights, and I couldn’t tell you how many I have been in. I also do not run sb or staff so my mobility isn’t as great as a meta teef. With the amount of AOE’s, Traps, revealing abilities (these ones actually help me…Revealed Training ftw,lol) and bursty builds out there, there is still a good level of skill involved to get a win (maybe not as high of skill pre HoT but there is still a good level of skill involved…Ive seen some terribad thieves that can prove this,lol)
Ive received lots of salt, esp from condi chronos and berserkers (the main 2 classes/builds i get salt from actually) ranging from “Cheeze, use a real build noob”…here im like “really? Pot calling the kettle black dont you think?” to “HA, you needed to stealth to kill me”…here im like “Uhhh really yeah, and you needed your weapons to attack me and to do your damage, whats your point?”
TL:DR Stuff happens, theres still a good level of risk and uhhh….ppl need to stop being salty…not like I throw salt at berzerkers or condi reapers or condi chronos.
For a reaper (DPS or Condi), Pulmonary Impact is your friend. If you can bait out their Chilled to the Bone (as about 90% of reapers have), then you are golden. Always save a dodge in case they try to fake you out with it (start to cast but cancel it on purpose).
Range is also your friend, they only have so many projectile blocks. Also, if you can, save a burst when you bait out their dodges. They have crappy mobility so if they have no dodges, they are almost like a sitting duck.
Reapers are fairly predictable (moreso the condi ones). If you get caught in a chilled to the bone, watch the bleed stacks. Their best damage comes from the 25+ stacks of bleed they can really quickly put on. Use a cleanse when you have at least 10-15 stacks.
Very strange nerfs.
Arch divider should have been a range nerf not CT
Adrenal health should be targeted not the signet.
Shield bash was unneccessary
Tount nerf was also strange and not needed….
Rest feels OK for me but well in total it feels too much.
Shield bash was weird. I agree with what you are saying. Eternal champion was something I saw coming. Headbutt needed a change. Should keep the distance and warmup but reduce the amount of adrenaline gained. This way its still quicker, but wont guarantee an instaburst. Between the heal siggy and adrenal Health, AH should have been looked at. Makes ya wonder if it was just a “lazy fix”. Something easier to implement so they just did it.
@cyn
That is by far, so far, the best idea I have heard to at least remedy this disgusting nerf, much better than my alternate button option. IF this nerf won’t be reverted, I also agree that would be an awesome implementation. At least i won’t be locked out of AA knowing i don’t have enough time for a second backstab try but want to keep pressure up.
I also agree that this is a great idea for the same reason. Its bad enough we cannot backstab for another 1s, however to lock us out of #1 completely is kind of a double nerf on 1 attack with the same patch, which Anet (to my knowledge) hasn’t done before. despite me adapting to that change, I never understood why the double nerf in 1 shot to the #1 skill. If you miss a backstab, stealthed or not you are vulnerable and if something can catch ya in that 1s cooldown then its a good chance its game over (all because of the #1 skill)
lol kiting warriors is so easy now. I just 1v2d a thief + warrior on my thief and the warrior was a literal non-factor.
This update was pure scrub pandering. Rather than encouraging players to learn how to avoid a class that was already easy to evade if you had decent reflexes and understanding of the class, anet just nerfed it so anyone can.
Maybe the warrior was trying a new build or was scrub on warrior (maybe not their main)?
1 4v1’d in an enemy camp on my thief, doesnt mean they were ez and doesnt mean I was pro (I too was on teef). Pretty sure it was vs a Zerk/DH/Necro/Teef
Mabe t hey were just having a bad WvW run or maybe I was having a A++ run…who knows lol.
After the Tuesday changes, Cleansing Burst only seems to activate once on turret deployment and never again. Is anyone else experiencing the same issue? If so, I feel heal turret should be reverted back to its old functionality. I don’t always want to waist my condition removal on turret deployment (if I have no conditions on me).
Base condi removal, imo, should come from the alchemy line (HGH ftw), not your healing turret. Like most classes/builds over time, you get nerfed and you must adapt. Either change your traits or utilities or sigil/runes. So many engis are so attached to healing turret, its kinda sad, especially where there are possibly better options based on your playstyles.
LFM
Engi & Ele
War / Ranger / Mesmer – Pick will depending on player experience and team comp.P.M me on site or in the game, serious inquiries only please.
Saiyan.1704
What kind of engi build are you looking for?
If you want a good interrupt build, play thief.
Sorry, I have to +1 this response ^—^
People were complaining about the powercreep HoT brought. People were complaining there wasn’t enough protection and ways to remove/corrupt boons.
Ask and ye shall receive.
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