Guild Wars 2

Furajir.3815:

Chaith.8256:

Furajir.3815:

Chaith.8256:

Thieves and Guardians have been meta/competitive from August 2012 to October 2015. So many builds and eras, they’ve remained until the expansion.

Warriors have had a few off and ons, but the two seasons following the expansion have been the longest period where they’ve been bottom tier.

Other than Warriors, Eles have either been really meta, or really crap, and Rangers have been bottom tier the most out of any class in competitive PvP

Anyone who’s followed the competitive scene since launch will have the same knowledge. Remember the game didn’t come out last October.

Pretty sure petting zoo rangers were meta for some time.

Yep, briefer stints as Trapper Rangers, and Spirit Rangers, but my observation is still true. It’d be sad if a profession was subpar forever, wouldn’t it

cough Warriors cough

One build over the course of Esports history as the saving grace doesn’t mean the class isn’t subpar, or rather ON PAR, with everyone else, especially when that build is deader than the dream that is GW2 e-sports.

Yea, we are aware Warriors have been bad this far into 2016 and for a period before Hambow.

But you keep exaggerating really hard to defend points, like do you actually not know about the Shoutbow build that was meta for the entire Celestial meta, and then Rampage Warrior being competitive after the Celestial meta until the X-Pac?

Furajir.3815:

Chaith.8256:

Thieves and Guardians have been meta/competitive from August 2012 to October 2015. So many builds and eras, they’ve remained until the expansion.

Warriors have had a few off and ons, but the two seasons following the expansion have been the longest period where they’ve been bottom tier.

Other than Warriors, Eles have either been really meta, or really crap, and Rangers have been bottom tier the most out of any class in competitive PvP

Anyone who’s followed the competitive scene since launch will have the same knowledge. Remember the game didn’t come out last October.

Pretty sure petting zoo rangers were meta for some time.

Yep, briefer stints as Trapper Rangers, and Spirit Rangers, but my observation is still true. It’d be sad if a profession was subpar forever, wouldn’t it

Thieves and Guardians have been meta/competitive from August 2012 to October 2015. So many builds and eras, they’ve remained until the expansion.

Warriors have had a few off and ons, but the two seasons following the expansion have been the longest period where they’ve been bottom tier.

Other than Warriors, Eles have either been really meta, or really crap, and Rangers have been bottom tier the most out of any class in competitive PvP

Anyone who’s followed the competitive scene since launch will have the same knowledge. Remember the game didn’t come out last October.

MMR Hell, tru as hell.

A good simulation estimated 4.5% of people are in MMR hell, this happens when you’re always playing on non-peak hours, (MMR Hell downward spiral doesn’t exist on peak hours).

So you gotta never play on peak hours and you gotta lose a lot vs. beginner/average rated people to dig yourself that hole.

Actually I think that OP might be a troll, so many people are triggered by dunning kruger effect posterboys, I’d rate 10/10 if so

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Seems like an overbearing power meta to me. After every match nearly 70% of the damage i’ve taken is from power damage. Of the top 11 meta builds 8 are power based and 3 are condition based.

Do you have any actual evidence that conditions are overbearing or did you just build to kill power specs and not condition specs?

Both the evidences you listed are not realistic. If 11 meta builds were evenly represented then you may have some kind of comparison, but OP is talking about casual ranked play where it’s necro spam and common Condi Mesmers too, due to the win rates associated with them. They’re not too over the top in competitive play, but the pug-busting strength of these condi builds are what we’re talking about here. It’s not an argument to how there are more condition builds than power.

Condition builds also don’t do 100% condition damage, they can deal as much as 40% of their output as power damage. So don’t take the 70% of damage received being power damage as an indication of what builds are dominant, either.

Shylock.4653:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Infiltrators arrow needs LOS otherwise it won’t work yes you can ground target ledges and bridges to port not but LoS is needed can’t go through walls.

That’s not correct. You can teleport through walls (0:37) and roof (0:42) in Khylo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqqCmqYoIDA

Both arguments are pretty irrelevant, of course targeted teleports require LoS, and yes, even if you go to the other side of a wall/roof you still need to have LoS to the area you’re targeting.

If the nerf everything patch ever happens, it’s definitely in order for a phase traversal nerf. I’d probably predict a nerf to 16 seconds in cooldown, (and Riposting Shadows refilling 25 endurance). It’s good to promote other skills/legends for decent intra-profession balance.

OP overextended his argument a lot to include Condi War, Scrapper E-Gun conditions, and Druid conditions,

Really it’s just Mesmer and Necros now are the least effort to power ratio combo for casual play.

Throw in some Tempest protection spam, and would be attackers melt to condition spam far faster than even really strong focus fire can work.

ResJudicator.7916:

I personally would rather see a slightly modified (smarter) S2 system with the following changes:

• Increase RD (rating deviation) slightly for purposes of forming a team —* This gives “average” players a higher chance to team with “above average” players, or “below average” a higher chance to team with “average.” So having a high MMR is less a guarantee of victory, and a low MMR less a guarantee of loss.

• Tie MMR loss to Pip Loss —* The only regular complaint I see with S2 is about people claiming that they’ve fallen into “MMR hell”. This only happens if you’re constantly losing games (so losing MMR) without losing pips (so not dropping down and playing with worse players). This could easily be resolved by adjusting the system so that you only lose MMR when you lose a pip. In other words, if you are 0 pips into Ruby, further losses won’t decrease your MMR. Voila, no more MMR hell.

• Smarter MMR system —* The amount of MMR you gain/lose after a game should be affected by the final score. For example, the MMR impact for a 50-500 loss vs an equal-MMR team should be greater than the impact if you lost by only 495-500 to that same team. And the system could even increase your MMR if you had a close loss vs a much stronger team. This may incentivize players to try harder even when they think the loss is inevitable. (This ties in with the next suggestion)

• More transparent MMRs* — Let players see their personal MMR. Also, display the average MMRs of each team after a game. This way, players can track their own growth (or regression), and also better understand how their games were lined up. This would be particularly helpful for players who incorrectly feel like they’re stuck in MMR Hell. (For example, several of the MMR Hell gameplay vids that have been posted show that the poster was actually on the stronger team, but the poster simply lacked the awareness to realize it).

I’ve seen, even suggested myself many of these tweaks to matchmaking, and the end result would be the same.

I think the Season1 matchmaker was nearly spot on, besides the high rating deviation between players on each team, as long as that could get tweaked, bring it on. In my personal opinion, nearly all the problems with Season1 stem from the league system itself, not the matchmaker.

A tight grouping or small rating deviation inside a team is a great thing, unless of course you are up against other tightly grouped teams of random skill levels. I’m not fussed whether the rating deviation is relaxed in the way you suggested, or the same result in any other way.

jessiestiles.9437:

Someone created a statistical analysis of the current system and showed that if you queue outside of primetime you are put into mmr hell. Excedingly unbalanced matches. The devs thanked the original poster and acknowledged this was a problem they plan to fix for next season.

That is not an outside factor. The system cannot function as intended 21 hours a day. That’s broken.

Still the important bit is the part you glossed over. How can you keep a system that creates imbalanced games in a low playerpool with a wide variation in mmr and also create balanced matches at the same time? Did you really think about this?

There were a number of big takeaways from that thread. The red post said, and I quote:

“We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system”

I would shy away from cherry picking one of the many points that the OP touched in that thread, and claim that a Dev acknowledged specifically this as one of the problems he was referring to.

For all we know, ArenaNet could not consider everything mentioned in that thread an issue. Some, undoubtedly.

Phil.8901:

Not always people want to switch profs or they’re good at the same level with every profs.

A good pvp game needs to guarantee good quality games at every level, not only in diamond/legendary.

Locking builds and roles should be prioritized like design, the problem is in this game many times ANET (balance team) doesen’t really know which role they want to give to some prof.

There is no clear direction about balance, this is one the main issue of this game.

I’ve seen lots of PvP games that lock the class picks, but in GW2 we need the ability to switch characters really bad, for more than one reason. When I play SMITE I’ll see someone pick a tanky bruiser god and watch him play/build it like an an assassin to the detriment of the team. It’s never foolproof. Fortunately the players who can’t make decisions to save their pips will have less pips than everyone else.

Also it’s funny you mention that the lines between roles seem blurred for professions in PvP, I think they couldn’t be more cut and dry.

I hardly ever see a profession using a build that I can’t use the same two words to describe it as I do with the rest of the profession.

Every Ele: Support bunker.

Every Engi: Support bruiser.

Every Ranger: Support & Assassin-Pet

You get the idea.

If you mean ArenaNet can’t decide whether to make casual Thief/Warrior players a little bit silly, or an outright free kill, then I suppose you’re right. This just reinforces the need to have a backup profession or two, or you and your team might pay the price in pips.

But I seriously think that balance and pre-game picks are not so huge an issue that we can’t talk about having nice matchmaking.

Phil.8901:

It’s a good reply Chaith but I really think in a game like GW2, where professions are really different and balance is really important, A MMR – league system is not enough to guarantee a good game.

Profession/builds are really important, there should be some control system on balancing the right mix sustain/damage in both of teams, or if you have a bad mix of profs against very good comp is always an handicapped game.

Agree to disagree,

Players choosing to not run elite specs, players choosing to not switch characters so there’s a semblance of balance of support and damage on a team, that is on the players to decide. Impossible for the system to manage, outside of simply assigning the poorly adjusted and unwilling to switch players a lesser rating.

In high MMR games I see players playing the right things and switching their picks. Your ability to play strong and well adapted builds, multi-class & pick a comp properly would simply be something that is characteristic of higher divisions if it were to be implemented properly.

Salamander.2504:

Chaith.8256:

Salamander.2504:

Chaith.8256:

The main difference would be instead of finding two very different groups of 5 very alike MMR people, and having a potentially imbalanced match, try to find the 10 most similarly rated players in MMR within the pip range, rank them #1-10 based on MMR, and have even vs. odds. With an expanding PIP range, and variation in MMRs accepted as the queue goes on.

In a 5v5 with the 10 most similarly rated players, there won’t be as big a need to promote certain players over others, as it’ll be much harder for you to become underrated in MMR by the system.
…snip
In S1, getting high divisions without fighting tough enemies …snip

How will your proposed system prevent people getting high divisions without fighting tough enemies, i.e., a repeat of season 1? On first glance, it seems that if people are matched on opposing teams based on similar MMR as you’ve described, low MMR players can grind their way to the top fighting only low MMR players, just like S1.

It’s based on highest party member pip range, can’t queue with low division people and gain Diamond Pips for beating Sapphires.

Right, but if low MMR players are only fighting low MMR players, they can just solo que to legend and never have to fight someone with high MMR. I.e., they can reach the same division as someone much better than they are. For example, if they grind through with even w/l, they should simply maintain their MMR. Even if they winstreak through, wins shouldn’t raise their MMR quickly enough because they are fighting low MMR players. In theory, they could go through the leagues without ever being matched against someone with exceptionally high MMR, despite being in the same league.

Take into account that win rates are going to be stabilized, and win/loss streak pips will be less prevalent. How does one grind through divisions with even w/l? And in glicko, my understanding is that your rating will get boosted fast when you’re winning vs. equally skilled people where skill should matter. Glicko moves you around fast in even matches, and slowly in uneven matches. So I can’t really see how you can winstreak through and not get your MMR boosted to match your pip range.

Obviously my ideas are rough, but it should be where pip level and MMR gain are as closely tied in as possible.

Salamander.2504:

Chaith.8256:

The main difference would be instead of finding two very different groups of 5 very alike MMR people, and having a potentially imbalanced match, try to find the 10 most similarly rated players in MMR within the pip range, rank them #1-10 based on MMR, and have even vs. odds. With an expanding PIP range, and variation in MMRs accepted as the queue goes on.

In a 5v5 with the 10 most similarly rated players, there won’t be as big a need to promote certain players over others, as it’ll be much harder for you to become underrated in MMR by the system.
…snip
In S1, getting high divisions without fighting tough enemies …snip

How will your proposed system prevent people getting high divisions without fighting tough enemies, i.e., a repeat of season 1? On first glance, it seems that if people are matched on opposing teams based on similar MMR as you’ve described, low MMR players can grind their way to the top fighting only low MMR players, just like S1.

It’s based on highest party member pip range, can’t queue with low division people and gain Diamond Pips for beating Sapphires.

Highest realistic burst in PvP right now is Invocation/Devastation Marauder Rev,

Staff 5 into Legend Swap, into weapon swap, into Precision Strike. If you land it perfectly on somebody without damage reduction (good luck finding one though), it’s outright deletion.

Novuake.2691:

It wouldn’t be easy to get it right, but how would you do it otherwise? How else will would you promote individual players out of lower tiers in the short period a season lasts?

So the goal is to give additional pips to individual players based on merit, but I’m not convinced that is necessary to having a skill based league system. It might even create problems, like division getting way too high for their skill, via boosted rewards for beating on minionmancers & eles all game and accomplishing nothing.

I have a rather simple proposal to change the matchmaker so this problem doesn’t happen in the first place, and that’s simply ship a priority change of how MMR grouping works.

In any pip range we have a variety of MMRs, let’s group them into 3 camps – below average, average, and above average.

Right now, from my understanding of the matchmaker, we’ll have a team of 5 taken from the below average camp and randomly faced off against a team from the below average, average, or above average camp.

When ArenaNet heard our desires of having teammates relatively close to us in skill, this MMR grouping was absolutely NOT what we wanted, if I can be so bold as to speak for the general population.

The matchmaking in season1 was good in the way that it had high quality, close matches. A big problem (excluding other problems) is that it did whatever it took to even the team MMRs, including adding players who didn’t belong there, to handicap, or boost the team MMR. This was disruptive.

What I propose is a combination of S1 and S2 matchmaking, where matchmaking still determines your matchups based on pip range, like it does now, to stay in line of ‘perserving prestige’ in divisions.

The main difference would be instead of finding two very different groups of 5 alike MMR people, and having a potentially imbalanced match, try to find the 10 most similarly rated players in MMR within the pip range, rank them #1-10 based on MMR, and have even vs. odds. With an expanding PIP range, and variation in MMRs accepted as the queue goes on.

In a 5v5 with the 10 most similarly rated players, there won’t be as big a need to promote certain players over others, as it’ll be much harder for you to become underrated in MMR by the system.

I could even TLDR; and say bring back the matchmaker from the era of old Leaderboards & Solo queue days. At both extremes of skill, the best players had 70% winrate, and the worst players had about a 45% winrate. Right now I’d ballpark the two extremes at a respective 85% and 20% winrate.

With the league infrastructure we have now, and a few more tweaks, we can have a pretty awesome casual PvP league. The problem was that after we invented the wheel, we invented and used a square wheel with points/grind based leaderboards, and then a triangular wheel – In S1, getting high divisions without fighting tough enemies – and now we’re using a rectangular wheel in S2 – grouped up based on MMR and face different MMR groups!

I’m a bit weary of all the crazy matchmaker/ladder fads we’ve tested. I’m happy we added the league system which was a huge step forward, but we just need to get a normal and ordinary matchmaker to complement it like we had before.

@Fivedawgs, When you worded it ‘a loss by the X pro team’ I thought you meant a loss caused by them, now I see you were talking about their own losses.

You’re suggesting that even pro matches you can pick apart the decisions that ended up causing a loss, and that means that people who claim to be in MMR hell have a justification to moan even if they’re making (terrible) decisions that throw the game, too.

Not better..

Fivedawgs.4267:

Let me just cut you there, I can show you any video of a loss by the abjured or any other pro Esl team, you know what?? We will find a mistake. True afker and dcer don’t count, what count is the you could be facing 1 vs 10 or 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 1.

So folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so.

Folks who are crying about MMR hell have every right to do so because of losses to pro ESL teams that they were helpless against?

You’ve kind of discredited yourself forever on the subject, in my personal view. I question if full roster pro teams on NA have even once queued casual league play in Season2. Let alone it’d take farming day and night, and hax to never leave the pip range of the person who’s MMR got tanked by pro teamz.

Anyone with general understanding of the league system knows that MMR hell is probably the last thing to associate with even solo queued top40 players.

I’m 100% against contribution scores. It will undoubtedly, guarantee that players will find a strategy to efficiently farm contribution in a way that’s a detriment to the gameplay, and also leaving playstyles dead that don’t contribute on paper as much.

Scrap it

So much wasted effort in talking about people’s personal biases. Opinions are all subjective, no kidding, guys.

In my opinion, balance right now is a tug of war between Rev & Necro vs. Ele & Engi. Of course if the carry classes were nerfed, the supports would be unchecked & vice-versa.

The problem is that everything else is benched with some notable exceptions like Portal, Continuum Split-Moa, and Search & Rescue. Need more options than just that for the game to be maximum fun.

DaShi.1368:

Anet rarely brings old build back. There are still many old GW1 builds that I miss.

Not really so much bringing builds back that were axed, but rather having there be 12 strong builds instead of 6 builds. They’re already there, just covered by HoT crap.

No easy solutions.

Scrappers, Tempests, and Druids have over the top group support/personal survivability in the current PvP builds.

Revenant and Reaper have very easily landed, over the top pressure while still having a good amount of defensive utility.

Continuum split Moa morph & Portal is really just the last viable profession here, I mean Chronomancer.

Looking on the bright side, they’re all equally overpowered.

The only problem is that every build that players have been using for 3 years is dead. We traded a ton of builds for a few next-level builds, it pretty much killed diversity.

Let’s just think of all the top meta builds that used to be playable, right before HoT launched.

The people who politely request that everything be nerfed, they probably just want to be able to play some of these builds again:

• Rampage Warrior
• D/F Fire & Arcana Eles
• D/D Earth & Arcana Eles
• Burn Guardian
• Bunker Guardian
• Mantra Mesmer
• PU Mesmer
• Power Grenade Rifle Engi
• Signet Classic Necro
• Shadow Arts Medic Thief
• S/D Acro Thief

And the patch before that

• Cele Engi
• Condi Engi
• DPS Meditation Guard
• Shoutbow Warrior
• Power Necro
• Non-Meta builds that actually came close, like Resbot warrior, Staff ele, Fresh Air ele, Static Discharge engi, Hambow Warrior.

It’s not just about builds either, at some point we shot to balance teamfight strategies with skirmish strategies, having to sacrifice battle strength to get portal/moa, and keeping some higher risk/reward builds in the mix instead of 5 self-sustained super-soldiers.

For the first time we added traits and an entire new profession but we kissed goodbye every build that we’ve found fun over the years, as well as Thief/Warrior/Guardian. I think later in 2014 until October 2015 is the period that set the bar for PvP profession balance in this game. Balance has improved so much since the Expansion came out, but we’re still so far from being where we were.

Fay.2357:

Ravenmoon.5318:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If you live in the EU these kinds of threats fall under their new anti-terror cyber laws. You can report these to your local law enforcement and they will force Anet to reveal their identity and arrest them. These new laws carry a 1-2 year prison sentence.

If you are in the US or elsewhere you are out of luck though.

Never heard of such laws and never heard of anyone sentenced on something they said in a game or a forum.

Every lawyer with half a brain can plead freedom of speech which just so happens to be constitutional right. Unless you live in like China or North Korea. You get my drift.

Freedom of speech has restrictions. Harassment is against the law. Inciting panic is against the law. As is per usual, your freedoms end where someone else’s rights begin. You cannot hide behind the protection of freedom of speech when you’re making attacks against someone else.

Kids will continue to tell each other in team chat and VOIP that they’re trash and unwanted in their games without ever violating cyber harassment law. It’s called being a jerk.

Nice concept, it’s pretty far away from anything GW2 could ever be. Looking forward to playing your game, amateur developer guy.

Professions in Guild Wars 2 don’t have a strict distribution of strengths and weaknesses like a tabletop RPG. The professions just evolved based on concepts that were deemed stylish and interesting, then had their effectiveness balanced.

Just the idea that the core specs and the elite specs of the same profession having completely different strengths, that’s a bit hard to believe possible in GW2. In reality elite specs just tack on a best-in-slot increase in support/survivability/utility to the original profession.

Also, the idea of having a profession need to make more sacrifices to get something sounds good in concept, but in reality – every good player will only play each profession in exactly the way its affinities point towards. Making sacrifices to achieve something not in your class’ natural affinity means that it’s garbo, inefficient, and you’d just swap to another character if you want to do that.

Kinda like why one would play a condition based Elementalist in any game mode when you have professions that can not be utter crap at achieving that.

And a random thought, I hope that Guild Wars 2 brings back a usable frontline Warrior archetype. Do they even MMO (?) I feel sometimes. Haha

dominik.9721:

Meta can make teams worse, tho. Best example is orng s1.

If enough people have to play things they’re not as familiar with it can create that effect, HoT put pro teams through hoops to see who can learn new things the fastest, this was usually the most important thing.

If a team appears to be slipping it often comes back to substitute roster people. Tage was out for all of S1, hopefully he gets back on it.

Sadly being told to kill yourself or told that you’re garbage, or even to go pick flowers, or collect rocks (both are new ones) if you’re in Sapphire is pretty much everyday if you play a Warrior or Thief casually. Probably a lot worse, actually.

I don’t think the people ingame know who OP is, or are targeting her from the forums. I think there are just naturally lots of crap humans in the toxic Sapphire dump.

Quadox.7834:

Chaith.8256:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Ikr, I def agree but those folks (pro players) have to be rewarded with something or this game will die in a sec.

E sport sure is garbage now, NA teams are getting worse day after day!!

Not true, matches on NA between top 3 teams are closer than ever.

That doesn’t contradict his statement.

Well, your choice whether to believe or not that skill levels are ‘getting worse’ when talent isn’t leaving the teams. Pretty absurd thing to say really, as long as NA rosters are stable, which they have been quite stable, teams will get better.

Fay.2357:

Chaith.8256:

Mogar.9216:

ranciddy.8243:

What a fallacious argument. Just because Arena Net is spending $200,000 on a tournament doesn’t mean that they can’t spend their money elsewhere on GW2.

I have a feeling that people should have to say their posts out loud before they’re allowed to post them.

yes, just because I spent 100k on a fast car doesn’t mean I can’t spend another 800k to buy a house…. All I have to do is go and shake my money tree in the backyard a bit harder.

No, he’s right. In fact about a year and a half ago now when the WTS tournaments were being announced Grouch red-posted about how the marketing budget is both required, presumably by the higher ups, and not transferable to balance or the PvP teams.

Allocation of funds for a studio like ArenaNet is more complex than your average small business account.

Granted, the argument could be made that they could find better things to spend marketing money on than the dead-end esports scene, but that’s obviously not the argument being made here.

Competitive scene is what it is, Season 1 was balls, due to bad balance reducing the hype moments to about once a match. Everyone knows this lost a lot of steam for the S1 finals, which were actually one of the best GW2 tournies to watch. Viewership on Twitch, I think last August we peaked at 11.5k concurrent viewers or so when the game balance was good, and popular teams were playing.

I guess we’ll know if it’s not enough, sooner or later. I think positively of the current patch on live, and hope for a good turnout in S2 finals.

Mogar.9216:

ranciddy.8243:

What a fallacious argument. Just because Arena Net is spending $200,000 on a tournament doesn’t mean that they can’t spend their money elsewhere on GW2.

I have a feeling that people should have to say their posts out loud before they’re allowed to post them.

yes, just because I spent 100k on a fast car doesn’t mean I can’t spend another 800k to buy a house…. All I have to do is go and shake my money tree in the backyard a bit harder.

No, he’s right. In fact about a year and a half ago now when the WTS tournaments were being announced Grouch red-posted about how the marketing budget is both required, presumably by the higher ups, and not transferable to balance or the PvP teams.

Allocation of funds for a studio like ArenaNet is more complex than your average small business account.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Just know that I’ll use your post as a reference in the future; because I remeber going over the casual/competition argument with you, I am glad your stance had changed.

As long as the context isn’t lost, sure thing. A disclaimer, my last post was mostly referring to people who are Legend that are left with nothing but to be casual. I’m sure there are instances preserved in late diamond where people are seriously competing and doing everything they can.

Fay.2357:

Pick one: competitive or casual. You don’t get both.

There isn’t a competitive element to leagues at all, watching Nos stream prestige 4 Queues or so, he’s rolling people 500-100 most wins, with a 75% win rate.

This is because the league system is a casual handout, there’s no incentive to be competitive, in the definition you hold it. Everyone is casually just doing whatever.

Playing crappy alt classes you haven’t read the buttons to – for The Ascension, even in legend, climbing to legend on your friend’s account, and the occasional player(s) who are very strong, just dominating anyone queuing in legend. Everyone is just casually doing as they please.

I think that some serious incentives need to go into making players want to try and reach the highest prestige possible. Mid to late season is just a joke, and you can’t stop people from doing whatever, even if we agree it’s scummy, some players will get a kick out of facerolling to Diamond, and repeating.

Jourdelune.7456:

I don’t know who you are.

Are you below average MMR? Do it, it will be easier for you.

Are you top MMR? Do it, because you don’t want to screw your own MMR.

Are you a twitch streamer and need more money because you are too lazy to work? Do spot advertising saying you do amber to legendary stream with a F2P account. (make sure you play some games off twitch to raise your MMR on it with your best friends)

Is there anybody in PvP who isn’t a scumbag/lazy according to you, the only things you type is to shame players for their attitude, you should check yo’self first.

Agemnon.4608:

Chaith.8256:

fedegf.6534:

And btw most of them, like Caithe and such, they’re teenagers, so whatever, it’s ok.

What the hell is this post. Lmao. So much wat. You think I have any pride in my casualwars2 ranked queue badge, yeah, nope.

What can you learn from what is said here? Top players think on such a higher level that they don’t even care what other players think. Keep in mind that a legendary badge and title is the ultimate prize during leagues.

In other words what Chaith basically said was the play and execution and refinement of skill itself are the true prizes while the symbols are merely symbols.

That’s deep, man. I have no idea how you came to any of those points but feelsdeepman

fedegf.6534:

And btw most of them, like Caithe and such, they’re teenagers, so whatever, it’s ok.

What the hell is this post. Lmao. So much wat. You think I have any pride in my casualwars2 ranked queue badge, yeah, nope.

SoPP.7034:

Chaith.8256:

Can’t speak for those that do, this season, but like most things in life, to each their own. Perhaps more incentive to queue in Legend would curve the issue, such as actual rewards, not counting the 2 dye and 5g.

^ Thanks for that reply.

However, I’m sorry that the OP along with is thread combined with my post (that you replied to) didn’t hit home why s1 was mentioned.

Yeah I see where you’re coming from but the only thing your posts have in common is anti-legend sentiment, cause in S1 when you 5 queue with legends you don’t expect to get solo queue rubies.

Hansen.3264:

Is 5 vs 5 teams scrims not worth streaming on twitch?
Just asking, i dont know from pro player view.
I know there could be builds, setups, tactics one would keep secret. But theese could be alternatet.
I would really love seeing it more on twitch outside tournement times.This would be good content for me and Way more cool than newbie farm.

Pretty much no PL scrims have ever been streamed there’s too many moving parts in getting 10 players on board with that. The point of scrims is to practice your serious comps

Fivedawgs.4267:

Ikr, I def agree but those folks (pro players) have to be rewarded with something or this game will die in a sec.

E sport sure is garbage now, NA teams are getting worse day after day!!

Not true, matches on NA between top 3 teams are closer than ever.

SoPP.7034:

Tbh I’m surprised you would cheapen your brand by responding with personal insults, and making inferences that simply aren’t true. But then again, am I the one that hit a nerve? Perhaps try some new strats when competing with EU, farming isn’t one of them.

S1 provides context, S2 is the same dog with different fleas, so there’s that.

But please explain why multiple accounts into Legendary is a thing, instead of playing your main in legendary. I doubt I’ll get a sincere response, after all legendary team farming soloqers in season 1 was acceptable, sorry if they’re scarred for life but they need to move on. amirite.

After all, S2 managed to do it right……….. oh wait

I’m not insulting you by mentioning that you seem to have been really affected by something if you’re posting screenshots from months ago from different MMR systems that aren’t even relevant to the topic, which is smurfing.

I’ve not really a clue what it is you’re about, ‘cheapening my brand’, I’m just someone who plays the game, not Heinz Ketchup or posting on behalf of an organization or team.

And you really don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to training methods for LAN events, you should probably leave that up to people who go. Leagues are casual fun, m8, god have mercy if you’re trying to get practice out of those.

Explain why multiple accounts to legendary is a thing? I only did a climb once not on my main, and that was a Season1 solo queue, non-HoT Engi climb on EU. I did it for something fun for my viewers on Twitch to enjoy.

Can’t speak for those that do, this season, but like most things in life, to each their own. Perhaps more incentive to queue in Legend would curve the issue, such as actual rewards, not counting the 2 dye and 5g.

SoPP.7034:

It’s similar to the amber farming of season 1. They’ll tell you it’s because of queues or w/e reason seems reasonable.

However there’s a level of acceptance, in the upper tiers of GW2 PvP gaming, at least in NA that farming is acceptable, which is what these accts are designed to do. Because they can keep their MMR high, they’ll always be matched into good teams with ANet’s current system so always stomping other teams. Basically keeping the low mmr players low.

The attached picture is a mix of ESL players, these guys were farming this for the better part of 2 days, hour after hour in season 1 and ANet MMR determined these games were OK.

I’m curious if this happens on EU, or is accepted because it always strikes me as a cheapening of ones brand, Pro players becoming farmers. Perhaps it explains why EU performance is always better than NA.

Hey, matchmaking put me up against you a few months ago when I was queued up with legends and in a party, looks like you’re still scarred for life, but only thing to say is sorry for matchmaking. Only that S1 matchmaking is irrelevant now, but I hope your life isn’t still too disrupted.

And the rest of this thread needs to chill, we’ve just reached the point when a solo queuer beat you 1v1, you assume he’s on a second HoT account solely because he beat your kitten .

I don’t really know how people are buying HoT on new accounts enough to cause this much angst, not with the $$ to me.

Ithilwen.1529:

Good Morning, Chaith.

Once again, my point is this:

The matchmaker created a match that was clearly set up to make my team lose.

Keep telling yourself that, if you can put up 350 points up, like for most of your games, you are not outclassed, and you can put up 500. Watch some Guild Wars 2 tournaments – teams can dominate one game and get dominated the next based on a few fights.

So far from a blowout that it’s insulting to people getting way worse matches than you.

In S2 you have this MMR hell bug to go with, but don’t be too quick to forget your 30 loss streaks in S1 algorithm, that pushed for mirrored group MMR every time.

What say you to posting a gameplay clip for one of your close games? Prove that your teammates are the ones getting outclassed, which is what MMR hell actually is.

Shouldn’t be more effort than making threads

Fivedawgs.4267:

Oxidia.8103:

idunno, last night i was able to get 4 tiers in ruby and crossed to diamond in 4 hours of spvp, and gained 1 tier in diamond. i guess it was a lucky day. cca 6 wins per 1 loss.

just put some sweet tunes and rock it.

Nice!! I was one pip away from diamond yesterday then got farmed by 2+ necro for the remainder of the night. Back to T4.

Get rekt n00b, Legend was easy for my superior wits and ESL skills, Kappa

All these kitten major league players in Emerald and Sapphire, just tryna keep a girl down

You have all these close 500-350 games that were clearly winnable if things were done differently

#post a match video

#posting in daily Ithilwen thread

Fivedawgs.4267:

BTW what’s more doleful then having pro player ( top 5%) mocks the underlings; with stuff like you are solely response for the outcome of your game ( implying everyone runs GODLY scrapper or Rez bot ranger).

This is a new a low for the community; first Evan now chaith blatantly spewing nonsense. A sight to be revered indeed

Yeah, go kitten yourself if you think that’s what I’m saying

Edit: But just for you, you can get good, you scrub. L2P

Marketing budget has to be spent on viewership

It’s non-transferable to the balance or PvP team and money can’t entice them to make better decisions

style.6173:

Not sure why you think killing esports is going to fix anything?

1. Is it going to make the balance team learn to balance?
2. Is it going to make the matchmaking guy learn to matchmake?

ESL matches are icky and I don’t like watching it, they should just disappear.

Get class wins on your achievements, but not your PvP stats? Seems very unrealistic, I’d say that’s something you’d just have to forego to keep your pure Thief account.

Alekt.5803:

Well, it seems like the balance team forgot how to change dynamics of classes or skills. All they seem to do is removing amulets to balance between PvE, SPvP, WvW…

I am just going to give the example of the Icebow, which is completely worthless in PvP now. (No need to argue on that, I have a lot of experience with Conjured Weapons, on many different builds). The issue with that weapon was the Ice Storm, a more stacked version of Meteor Shower. It would deal a massive load of damage to large and immobile targets in PvE. Instead of changing the skill to break it’s broken nature against immobile and large targets, they gave it the greatest number reduction, near 60% nerf. It is still used in PvE, but in PvP, it’s not usable anymore; marauder amulet now deals the damage of settler amulet of before.

To me, it seems like the developpers forgot how to fine tune balance, to play with slight changes that does not necessarily mean damage reduction. I may have a list of ways to rebalance that seems to have been forgotten:

Blind Duration. It could be possible to reduce the blind durations of certain blinds to a short duration. (I am looking at you, Warding Rift!)

Radius. It has been a while since radius of skills were adjusted in a positive manners. Instead, they were pushed to an extremely large 600 radius. (Chill to the Bones, Jade Wind, Tempest Shouts)

Accuracy and velocity. Adjusting velocity of certain weapons does not affect PvE. Consider Staff elementalist, which is extremely good in PvE, but unviable in PvP. Adjusting velocity and chance to hit against moving target would not affect their pure dps in PvE, but would help the PvP side. Same thing goes to have an immediate first tick on Lava Font that would not affect the pure damage of the skill.

Buff unused skills by PvE folks Given staff elementalist again, buffing skills damage-wise, cooldown, or cast time from attunements the PvE rotation never uses does not affect PvE, but helps PvP. (Like Shockwave or Icespike)

Yes, seems ArenaNet is very leery about adjusting the classes on the subject of class balance.

Where to even begin? Always seems to involve staff ele and conjures with you though, haha.

style.6173:

Seems to me like ANET reached out to some pro league players.

ANET: Guys, the season sucks. we know it. We are afraid of losing players. If we lose players, there won’t be a pro league.
Pro League: Ok, ANET. Give us a script and we’ll see if anyone believes us in the forums.

Ha-ha that’s a really funny script, pro league players trying to further some agenda by chatting on the forums about the game they’re passionate about, never heard that one before.

It’s pretty much what every single kitten on these forums turns every discussion into

style.6173:

Chaith.8256:

Also, lol @ deleting Clerics. Ele doesn’t get carried from having 13k HP so much, man.

I’m sure your team just uses an ele because Wakkey looks good playing it. *facepalm

Ele is a huge problem and needs to be nerfed

Clerics =/= Ele

Clerics is an AMULET, separate from the classes that use them, and which are two completely different things, so don’t act like I just said Eles are fine.

Eurantien.4632:

I would actually argue that full glass ranger like the one I was playing might be one of the best carry options. You can single handedly slay a team fight, you can save teammates with search and rescue. Sure, druid is really strong, but if your teammates aren’t killing people you probably won’t be.

I felt the same way you did about your Power Ranger when I solo’d my Viper P/P Grenade Engi up in S1. It would just crap on anyone unfortunate enough to eat Grenades while reviving/stomping.

Lost builds like Condi Engi and Power Ranger definitely are fun to see at work in the hands of someone who feels comfortable using a mere mortal build aka, surviving without a ton of sustain or unavoidable damage.

Sigh, now I have pre-HoT build nostalgia.