Would it be fairly accurate to say that it’s not so much the across-the-board nerfs in itself that has Revenant players up in arms, but that they’re being applied to a class that’s still only half-functional?
It’s like we were bleeding out on the sidewalk and the much-anticipated ambulance stopped, the paramedics got out and just kicked us in the head before climbing back in and driving off.
Whether the nerfs were justified or not (I’m mostly too casual to accurately assess) I honestly can’t blame the rev community for feeling more than a bit salty about this.
That’s a valid comparison.
Let’s see:
- no racial skills usable
- underwater combat is an afterthought (as in we can barely make do)
- terrible customisation options (due to class design)
- 2 useless legends from a total of 5 (4 if you look at the base class only)
- a LOT of bugs in class skills
Yup, checks out.
Also this heavy bias towards spvp in argumentation. Great, revenants were top tier, some of the 9 classes always will be due to the competative nature of the game (guess it’s thiefs turn now again). What about pve revenants? All they had going for was auto attack damage and boonbot. Conditions were not even on the radar.
While some form of nerfs and changes were justified. The extent of the nerfs coupled with literally 0 changes or fixes to the class while at the same time other classes were way overbuffed or unchanged (see Thief, Necro, Warrior) leaves a very bitter taste.
It leaves the player with the impression that arenanet are only focused on short term solutions that favor mixing up the spvp meta for their new found loveball that is spvp (a game mode that was and still is being shuned by a majority of the playerbase) instead of actual class design and balance.
Personally, I don’t mind them spending time fleshing out the esports side of the game. In general it is always good to have new players moving towards the game.
That being said let’s clear some things up:
WvW is NOT esports.
Spvp is partly esports, but certainly not with this terrible design of a league system.
Pve is no esports (this one is kind of obvious to most, but spvp and wvw get mixed up a lot).
Now where do things go wrong?
Once the entire game gets balanced around 1 of these aspects. We’ve seen this in the past with pve and arenanet balancing the game around this game mode. The spvp crowd, no matter how big or small, was up in arms, rightfully so, and we are now almost 3.5 years into a game where 3 years of this time was spent on mostly only pve.
The last few months post HoT (and slightly before) have been heavily focused balance wise towards the spvp segment while the trying to grow the pve game (content and mechanics wise). We’ve gotten:
- raids
- fractal redesigns
- harder open world maps
- new skins and pve movement skills
- masteries
It does not take a genious to notice that balancing and focusing on spvp instead of pve, while expanding the core game might be a bad idea. Get the new stuff fixed first, then move on to other projects. Cue the people who say: but there are multiple developer teams working on different parts of the game. True, but what they’ve done so far is mediocre at best, and terrible at worst.
At least they’ve started trying to improve their communication on the official forums. Baby steps I guess.
People might notice that I have completely omited WvW from my argumentation. Well for me to talk about WvW, there would have to be WvW to talk about. The neglect that game content has seen (yay new maps, which were more a design orgy than actually play tested) is very sad.
Here would be my 3 main advices:
- The marketing department is NEVER right. Marketing is a tool to be used which when used properly will greatly enhance the strengths of your product. Once you let them run the show though, you lose.
- have 1 person half the numbers the balance team throws out there. Literally do the same things as before, then at the very end, have 1 person go through ALL the numeric changes (no matter if good or bad) and cut them in half. This excessive over the top balancing back and forth (while done in most MMOs) is really hurting a game with 3 game modes.
- other games have had to deal with similar problems (matchmaking and Elo, pvp rankings, pve rewards, wvw, etc.). Stop trying to reinvent the wheel (new league system for example). Go and take a look how others have solved the problem, then addapt that approach to GW2.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
So, the squad is full, five minutes until reset for DS, JOINED A SQUAD, so did other people…boom reset happens, that’s fine, this is great we are all going to get to do this because we got in a commander’s group beforehand and still are…yah! ummm no…click “join commander’s name here in Dragon Stand” Been in a squad from the beginning, all of us…the answer “sorry the map is full” the whole entire squad can’t get on the same map. No that is not anyone’s solution as it doesn’t always work. The solution is not a 50/50 chance of actually getting in. “poor man” solution did not work for this, so what does it need a “destitute man” solution now?
The question was why use a squad.
The answer is simple, beacuse it allows you at least some fraction of possibility to save your progress and get rewarded.
Also you didn’t just compare joining on DS 5 minutes after reset (essentially where everyone tries to get on) to joining on VB towards the end of a cycle? The maps, map population and design are so different that my guess is you just wanted to make a fancy referance to the map is full problem.
Well that will be less of a problem on VB than on DS 5 minutes after reset.
In case you didnt know this thread is a community thread.
Yes, and the topic at hand are dungeons in GW2. It’s not a general community thread or a thread about MMOs in general.
These threads were originally created as a casual chat platform for the community. As members of the dungeon community we are free to post a few offtopic things so long as we dont go overboard.
Says who? Only because the mods are to lazy to clean this up does not mean you can go off topic and advertise for other MMOs (or be kitten about getting called out on it). Also the thread got started to get derailed 7 days ago. Before that there was at least a minor semblance of the responses being directed at GW2 or dungeons.
Going to the BD forums would serve absolutely no purpose since i want to discuss such off topic matters with other guildwars 2 dungeon community members.
So get on ts, skype, a neutral forum, guild chat, etc. (its 2016, there are enough channels to communicate). The current discussion about BDO aren’t even related to dungeons there. It’s just smoke and mirrors to advertise in a dead topic which does not get closed due to mods sleeping.
There are countless of off topic posts in this thread, part 1 and part 2. You are the first to get upset over it.
If anything you are the only one trying to aggravate others. Dont be a kitten.
I wouldn’t care if this nonsense wasn’t pushed to the top of the forum every time nonsense gets posted effectively pushing useful threads further down.
I was for hours on VB and i was 200% participation and almost ready to get t4 reward. Then i got dc just before we kill matriach, and when i log back in i was t1 and 0% participation…. this is bs big time!
A-net u are so unfair… whats the point of playing when crap like that happens? All this time for nothing?
Great game… so much fun….
Next time join a commander’s squad and just tell him that you have joined because you have ISP/hardware/bad luck problems. When you relog you’ll end up in the same map. Most commanders won’t have a problem with this.
And to you also the question:
Why do people HAVE TO join a party or squad to rejoin the same map?
Because the current megaserver system has flaws.
You can debate this as much as you want, or go for a poor mans solution and work with what you are given.
The choice is yours.
oh god my hands are cramping all DEM SLIDERSSSS
Tamer master race. Or rather, master class.
Game must be super interesting if you find the time to post nonsense on a different games message board in a thread which even has nothing to do with your message.
Then again, have to advertise mediocre games that underperform expectations don’t we?
Wow you’re really upset.
The game’s not out, it comes out in march.
I imagine if it didn’t meet expectations, they wouldn’t be localizing it for the west, though.
Why would I be upset?
I’m not the one hijacking a thread with a topic which has nothing to do with:
A. Guild Wars 2
B. the thread itsself
C. on an issue that had quite a few people rilled or confused
I’m pretty sure the BDO has its own forums and community groups where people are stocked about the game. I just find the notion to bring these topics to other MMO forums sad and pointless.
We get it, you’ve found a new toy to hope for. It’s not like this hasn’t happened before. Oh look, a new MMO that is going to be better in every single way than all the ones before it (see latest BnS hype which is slowly dying down).
The only reason for people to do steps 1-3 is to aggravate others due to boredom or whatever other reason. There are subgroups, forums, communities, etc. these discussions are there for. This thread is certainly not it.
I don’t know if there’s a schedule. They do come back every so often but I’ve never paid attention to exactly when it is.
I’m surprised they didn’t bring them back after introducing the shared inventory slots though as I can imagine a lot more people would want them now.
True, but can you imagine the outrage?
I mean people were already upset about the price of shared inventory spots (unjustly in my opinion, but that is a different matter). If arenanet had offered the permanent passes the same day/week there would have been enough people screeming pay to win nonsense.
On a more economic note though, maybe they wanted to see how the shared inventory space offer goes, then decide if the 1,000 gems are warrented any longer (both combined does provide access for all your characters meaning arenanet does incure a potential loss in gem sales). While I don’t hope for it, I could imagine they uping the price on the permanent passes (or hopefully the marketing team realises greed does not always more money make).
What I recently noticed happening on TP is this:
I want to buy some material, let’s say linen scrap. I open TP and click buy order 1 copper higher than the previous buy order listing. But’s that? – Even though all sellers offer it for much higher price, there alway ONE guy selling ONE piece of that scrap for exactly ONE copper higher that the top buy order. If I want to buy multiple of those scraps, TP for that price of 1 copper higher, TP will always automatically redirect me into instant buy list because of that ONE piece, which I get for that price and then I can actually just buy the mor expensive ones in the insta tab.It has these implications:
1. somebody is trying to exploit, rob people by enforcing them to misclick on insta buy instead of buy order
2. those who don’t get fooled are blocked from clicking a buy order, unless they remove that 1 piece from insta buy listI consider this a semi-serious flaw to the TP system. And I consider these people biggest kittens ever.
Nope, you are seeing this from the wrong side of the equation.
The person putting up those 1 copper over buy oders in doesn’t care about your purchase from the TP. He also doesn’t want to trick you since the game clearly shows what the total sum is and which orders are getting filled by your request.
He is aiming to get as many people to sell to him via the “I’ll sell 1 copper cheaper than the current sell order” and turn a profit by relisting the material for its actual price (or at a different time of day/week for a higher price). He risks his 1-10 items which he puts up undervalue in order to grab as many instant sell players as possible.
It’s a common and known way to manipulate the market. Working as intended. If people can’t be bothered to read and watch out for what they click, then they are rightfully parted from their goods undervalue.
You on the other hand got a couple of materials cheaper. Everyone wins.
Yes, the new legendarys are more expensive and sought after (demand side in form of demand for materials by players) compared to legendarys available for over 3 years (supply side of old legendarys).
Checking our most basic economic understanding of supply and demand: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
We can thus realise that high demand leads to higher prices (if supply is unchanged) and high supply leads to lower prices (if demand is unchanged).
Working as intended.
Edit:
If your goal was to simply get a legendary axe, then yes, going for Frostfang would have been the economic sound choice. New precursors are not sellable though.
oh god my hands are cramping all DEM SLIDERSSSS
Tamer master race. Or rather, master class.
Game must be super interesting if you find the time to post nonsense on a different games message board in a thread which even has nothing to do with your message.
Then again, have to advertise mediocre games that underperform expectations don’t we?
Because giving players more options to deal with the games block system is a good thing.
I just don’t see the problem. Maybe I’m to old to care about people who I’ve blocked, but if you use your bock list for anything else than unblocking that is up to the player.
Not sure what you actually do on your block list, but I’ve been on it probably 3-4 times, in over 3 years of playing the game. That’s what a responsible player does.
Then again, people who enjoy on/off blocking and making life hard on themselves or are overly attached to people they’ve blocked, well there is people who will obsess over just about anything isn’t there?
I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are nowI’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.
Experience.
Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.
Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.
No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.
The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.
xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.
Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).
[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]
[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]
Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.
Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)
The words you might want to use are:
- differentiate or distinction
Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:
You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.
Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.
Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.
You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.
There fixed that analogy for you.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.
The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.
Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.
Good point, on:
- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotationyou getting what I’m trying to point at brah?
Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.
ps.
Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
So your link proves my point as well, thank you.
Aha but discriminating by DPS is NOT the same as discriminating by a born trait (like sex or race), its discriminating by output (as in discriminating by usefulness – which is just like door vs window).
People can improve their output (even with help from the DPS meter) and so can earn greater favour by DPS meter discrimination.
Discrimination is logical and completely fair when applied to output – exam results for example discriminate based on how well you did (I hope you can see that this kind of discrimination is fair and just). The term is not negative just you keep wanting to act like we’re comparing women to men when actually we’re actually comparing straight As to fails.
Output discrimination does not lead to bad things (its the reason you’re using a computer right now and not excrement to make pretty shapes on a cave wall).
Correct, and this has done abosultely diddly squat in disproving that discriminate has a negative conotation and was used (and mostly gets used) in this negative way, see this entire thread.
You see now we’ve established people are using it in a biased and stupid way we can start eliminating the worthiness of their posts.
When the dust settles all we’ll have is “DPS meters give you information on which to make decisions” and I shall think it good.
Except that correcting people’s grammer, spelling and/or vacabulary and use theirof does not change their irrational behavior nor does it solve human nature.
It also does not counter past experiences which might or might not repeat themselves.
Ultimately it solves none of the dilema at hand except maybe creating more clarity in expression (which I find doubtful non-native speakers would even care about).
So I’m not sure what you believe to have proven or solved besides sidetracking this entire discussion with semantics.
I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are nowI’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.
Experience.
Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.
Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.
No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.
The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.
xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.
Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).
[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]
[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]
Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.
Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)
The words you might want to use are:
- differentiate or distinction
Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:
You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.
Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.
Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.
You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.
There fixed that analogy for you.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.
The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.
Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.
Good point, on:
- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotationyou getting what I’m trying to point at brah?
Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.
ps.
Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
So your link proves my point as well, thank you.
Aha but discriminating by DPS is NOT the same as discriminating by a born trait (like sex or race), its discriminating by output (as in discriminating by usefulness – which is just like door vs window).
People can improve their output (even with help from the DPS meter) and so can earn greater favour by DPS meter discrimination.
Discrimination is logical and completely fair when applied to output – exam results for example discriminate based on how well you did (I hope you can see that this kind of discrimination is fair and just). The term is not negative just you keep wanting to act like we’re comparing women to men when actually we’re actually comparing straight As to fails.
Output discrimination does not lead to bad things (its the reason you’re using a computer right now and not excrement to make pretty shapes on a cave wall).
Correct, and this has done abosultely diddly squat in disproving that discriminate has a negative conotation and was used (and mostly gets used) in this negative way, see this entire thread.
I wonder how many of these opinions are completely based on one bad experience, the bad experiences of others or even the prejudices about those mean elitists raiders who will always kick anyone who isn’t perfect and never forget to call them “newbs”.
(…)
This is generally how things happen in other games when things “go wrong”:
Leader – “Okay, tonight was a little rough, we need everyone to be at least at 10k DPS by next raid or we’ll have to start replacing people with those that can do it”
—next night—
Leader – “Okay Jonny and Sarah you are both sitting at 5k DPS unfortunately that doesn’t cut it for this type of content, we are going to have to replace you tonight. We can talk after the raid to see if we can get your damage up to where it needs to be”
Now lets look at a very real example of what happens in GW2 when things aren’t going right:
Leader – “Guys last attempt we were at 5:45 when the Vale Guardian split. We need to have much better damage if we are going to hit the enrage timer. Make sure you are using the best gear, food and utilities possible and optimizing your rotation.”
4-5 attempts later
Leader – “We are still consistently below the 6 minute mark when the Guardian splits. What’s going on? Why is our DPS not where it should be?”
crickets
No one knows. No one has any idea who’s pulling their weight and who’s not. It’s a complete crap shoot.
There’s a couple things the RL could do at this point:
1. Have everyone link him their gear. This would require some extensive knowledge of almost every profession and what their best build is (Or even viable builds, many professions have multiple raid viable builds). It would require them to start discriminating based on gear. They may end up dropping their most valuable player simply because he has a few less than optimal pieces of gear. It’d also take hours to figure out where the problems are.
2. Continue attempting without really changing anything and hope people magically get better (generally they won’t). If things don’t improve people will stop having fun and stop showing up, usually the first ones to go are the ones who are actually the best players.
Neither of these are good options. It’s unlikely you’ll find the problem with either and it’s unlikely you’ll be able to get past this hurdle either because you simply don’t have the information available to make an informed decision. Damage meter would make this a fairly simple decision. Sure, one maybe two people might get their feelings a little hurt, but you won’t have 10 people frustrated and getting burnt out.
TL;DR – Part of teamwork and cooperation is accountability and without tools like damage meters leaders can only make guesses at who’s doing their job and who’s not.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Have seen the “crickets” thing happen so often in this game. You end up pointing out that DPS is pretty low as a whole because you don’t want to hurt any feelings and of course nobody owns up or even knows he is the one.
It might just be the true accountability that some people seem to oppose. People might actually have to start respecting LFG requirements then… I have been asking for a LFG tool that let you set specific requirements which will block some players from joining but you can imagine how people hated that idea.
I seem to be part of your “elitist” group then. Got all the raid content clear (6/18 achieves for armor, all raid achieves done bare 2) and even without that I can see a damage meter as problematic.
If you are any type of semi decent raid leader (extends to guild leaders too) you know who is pulling their weight and who isn’t. This starts by having a general overview of how well founded player understanding of mechanics is which does not take long for someone to figure out if you are on ts/mumble/skype over multiple periods of time. I find it funny that people would bring this up. Either you’ve never actually lead a raid (I have in multiple MMOs starting with DAoC over WoW to Guild Wars 2) or you haven’t been paying attention to you fellow players (granted this was quite difficult with 40 man raids, but still possible since you had sort of a core team).
This doesn’t help random groups though, true. Then again we are talking about raid content which is not supposed to get puged even if it’s easy enough for this to be doable.
If you need a damage meter to see who is pulling their weight or not, you are far less good of a player than you might think. The damage meter just makes it easier, I won’t argue against that, but it certainly is not required.
I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are nowI’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.
Experience.
Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.
Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.
No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.
The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.
xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.
Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).
[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]
[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]
Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.
Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)
The words you might want to use are:
- differentiate or distinction
Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:
You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.
Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.
Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.
You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.
There fixed that analogy for you.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.
The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.
Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.
Good point, on:
- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotation
you getting what I’m trying to point at brah?
Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.
ps.
Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
So your link proves my point as well, thank you.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are nowI’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.
Experience.
Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.
Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.
No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.
The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.
xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.
Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).
[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]
[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]
Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.
Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)
The words you might want to use are:
- differentiate or distinction
Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:
You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.
Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.
Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.
You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.
There fixed that analogy for you.
I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are nowI’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.
Experience.
Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.
Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.
No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.
The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.
You legit can nerf every single class for PvE for around 20%-30% of their total DPS and you could still complete the raid just fine. The fact that people can’t is simply a L2P issue. Like it has been said earlier, there’s been instances of people soloing raid bosses already. Balancing around PvE is idiotic.
That said, if the devs decide to split up WvW, PvE and PvP balancing, that would be a good day, but until then, balance based on PvP only.
It is not about overall DPS, we are not asking for DPS, we are asking for balance so all professions are viable there. Current situation is, if you are not burnzerker warrior/DPS herald/fresh air tempest/alacrity chronomancer/heal druid you are not welcomed in a raid party.
So form your own raid party? Don’t you have a guild to run raids with? This isn’t an issue with balance, but with players too lazy to organise their own business
The 10 guardian raid that didn’t pass Goreseval begs to differ.
While I agree the raid is lenient on damage required for Vale Guardian and Sabatha since those fights are more based on technique, Goreseval is a hard damage race. Do people finish him with minutes left over? Sure, by squeezing the maximum out of best per encounter classes and running multiple burnzerkers (at the moment) and lots of heralds.
Do Goreseval with 10 not top tier damage classes, or with even only 5 not top tier damage classes and come back and ask for 20-30% damage reduction.
That’s the core problem, different classes being more or less viable for current pve content getting hit by changes that are aimed at spvp.
Imagine the boss has timers on his skills (green circle, red seekers, blue teleport bubbles).
His channel basically prevents him from using these skills, but the cooldowns will still runout thus allowing the boss to cast his skill.
Once you break his breakbar, he regains his ability to cast his other skills. Due to coding and priorities, he will cast the skills as soon as they are ready. Thus you have to have him in the next area before he starts his channel (or be prepared to help your ranged team).
Because of this, it is very important to move him to the next zone BEFORE he does his break bar. Specifically, what you should do is the 2nd time you rotate to the Green colored section you should wait for a green circle to spawn, then have the tank immediately move the boss to the lit up blue region. There is several seconds where the tank will take a lot of damage from both the boss and the lit section AoE, however, his movements are inconsistent in this part of the phase (he stops to use blue teleport at a bad time) and this is generally the safest option. The DPS should hang out on the unlit section until he goes into breakbar mode.
The next green circle will after this will also be dangerous, having the potential to be in a bad spot if you don’t move the boss early but is much more manageable.
This is good advice. Having a ranged team that can take a green circle in a lit area helps too.
If available and your group is on point, use support skills to help the ranged team survive the green circle.
It all boils down to geting the timings right. The old strategy with letting the boss run his breakbar down slowly is obsolete, so in general you’ll want to break it asap to let your tank have the best possible ability to position the boss.
Would recommend people read the books if you enjoy the GW2 lore.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghosts_of_Ascalon
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sea_of_Sorrows_%28book%29
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_Destiny
Don’t expect some Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones or The First Law type of quality, but they are entertaining and fun.
If I had to rank from most to least favorite it would probably go as follows:
- Caithe – really enjoyed the character, Living World S2 definately had a part in this. Quite disapointed how little value she had to the HoT story
- Rytlock – SAB commercial. Nuff said.
- Eir – I like the direction Brahm is taking. Let’s see if he can live up to the original.
- Logan – meh. He’s okay. His biggest flaw is he has to contend with Rytlock for awesome likeable pummel stuff upfront guy.
- Sojja – never a big fan. I don’t dislike her, it’s just that Taimi just steals the show.
It is not about overall DPS, we are not asking for DPS, we are asking for balance so all professions are viable there. Current situation is, if you are not burnzerker warrior/DPS herald/fresh air tempest/alacrity chronomancer/heal druid you are not welcomed in a raid party.
It will always be this way in PvE, no matter how Anet balances the game. There will always be those “best” comps, because unlike players, PvE enemys don’t adapt and try to counter the meta. And many player want to play only with those builds, because it makes it easier, faster, or because they don’t know it any better, even if tons of other builds are totally viable and the difference would be barely noticable. At least in casual runs.
If people wait 10 mins or longer to find players with the perfect classes and refuse to take anything else, even if the difference in run time would be way less than their waiting time, it has nothing to do with bad balance. It is just stupidity and that’s something, Anet can’t change.
Agreed, doesn’t mean they have to balance around spvp and make things worse.
Also those 10 minute arguments (which I completely agree on for fractals) kind of become moot when people are looking for spots in raids.
Most trophies have something along the line of:“Only useful as part of collection xyz.”
Those you can mostly sell without worries. If you are in doubt, simply check the wiki, then keep or sell/destroy the item.
Alacrity was dominating PvP. So what is the effect in PvE when you have 7 mesmer all nearby?
Good question, I wouldn’t know since we only bring 1 per raid/fractal.
The reality is if guardian traps were getting over the top in PvP where there is 10 players on a map, then what is happening in WvW with zergs and traps? What is happening in PvE with Full maps of traps?
Nothing, traps suck in pve. Nerfing them any further just removes them from the bar.
How does balancing a profession with PvP in mind affect the PvE experience?
That is why balancing across the board is useful. If it is a problem in small groups of skilled real players, then in zergs of players against PvE targets it just trivializes content.
Not really, you seem to never pve at all otherwise youd know that:
- pve is worlds different from spvp and wvw. this has nothing to do with player skill. Scaling of players is no concern since pve enemys can get scaled howerver arenanet wants, make them cc immune, etc. -> also a moot point. The mere fact that you compare pve to spvp is sad. Not even going to get into the most basic difference of rotations, duration of fights (huge factor in balancing for spvp not so much for pve), class demand, etc.
- you seem to be under the impression TC is only refering to open world zergs, the pinacle of pve content. Or maybe he was more worried about fractal and raid viability of his class.
This why we’re seeing 10 guards or 10 revenants doing raids. There is also a video of a revenant soloing vale guardians in beta weekend.
And they got all the way to Goreseval and failed the damage gating. There is a reason guardians are rare in raids.
But all of this is moot, since as I said, pve is way different from spvp and wvw. Hence the valid question: why does the entire game get balanced around 1 game mode, instead of splitting skills.
You CAN get it from a pod, it’s just rare. I have done so.
You WILL get one item you need from the MoM chest, if you had that collection open before the MoM died.
I can confirm this.
Had 1 drop from a pod and the other 3 from completing the meta event.
It’s not that bad really. The hassle to get all the materials is way worse.
Isn’t PvE supposed to be easy?
No, not really. Starter zones, sure. L80 zones, not so much. Expansion zones? definitely not.
Just getting from point a to point b?
It’s supposed to challenge you. I had trouble day 1. Now I don’t, even with squishes.
Doing events when no one’s around?
Some events are really hard solo, even in the old zones. More so in the new zones. But mostly, why are doing group events when no one is around ? Use the LFG tool to find full maps.
Soloing mobs no matter what class you are? (Play as you want to play)
“Play as you want to play” means you can get rewards for all sorts of things in all sorts of areas. It doesn’t mean you aren’t expected to be challenged in some zones or modes of play. Soloing mobs is more difficult than being in a group; if it’s hard for you, change your build or your rotation or your gear (or all of it).
While group content is supposed to be hard? HoT failed because the entire expansion is a group expansion. Nothing at all was aimed for individual players who play an hour or two a day. (Which is individuals with full time jobs, girlfriend, friends)
HoT didn’t “fail” — it’s just not everyone’s cup of tea. Keep in mind that a lot of people from GW1 never migrated to GW2, and said that GW2 “failed.” What they meant (and I suppose, what you mean), is that it failed to meet your expectations.
I try to avoid that issue and only ‘expect’ that ANet will deliver something unexpectedly fun and challenge me in ways that I have to stretch.
Raids and fractals are wonderful for people who have time for them. Anymore though the game feels like one giant raid.
Raids and fractals, interestingly enough, take far less time per night than PvE. (Depending on your abilities, your in-game friends and coaches.)
Anet….even though a lot of people may like it you truly did fail. Why? Because you killed guild wars for what it’s been from the very start of release. I truly hope the next expansion makes it worth coming back.
I’ve seen this sentiment before & I still don’t get it. The original areas are virtually unchanged, made easier with auto-looting and permanent city speed buffs. I understand that the expansion isn’t your cup of tea, but that just means that you didn’t like it.
Cya in eso till then
Sorry you didn’t like HoT. Have fun in ESO.
This.
Have fun in ESO.
Aside from the mostly similar approach to free to play with cosmetics costing money, the 2 games are very different.
Blade and Soul is way more out there with oversexing characters. While that might appeal to a part of the male audience, it could also anoy others. I’m out of that age where I need virtual boobs shoved in my face every step I take, other more mature gamers might see that in a simlar way.
BnS has the more classic approach going for it though. People who are having a hard time without trinity might stay longer or prefer BnS over GW2. Rest will depend on future content. Short term I’m sure quite a few people will give the game a try. If they stay will depend on how the game feels after that new car novelty has worn off.
B&S wont take me from GW2. BDO might.
CP2077 certainly will.
CP2077 is no MMO, so hard to compare. I do have high hopes in CD Project Red though, their the Blizzard of this time before the company sells out to Activision (personal opinion).
I have already pointed out solution to that exact problem. And people continue to make the SAME argument that it’s impossible. Not sure exactly who’s having a monologue here.
If there is a problem with the solution, say exactly what it is. There isn’t anything that actually makes it impossible. It just need to be approached in a clever way.
I am not the one having a monologue when people make the same argument they did five year ago without reading my post. It’s NOT too complicated when you reset the character.
No one is saying it’s impossible. Arenanet officially said they will not do it because of the complexity involved.
Since your knowledge of the game will be vastly inferior to arenanets, I’ll go by what they said.
So keep barking up that tree…
GW2 has no DPS meters and yet its elitism and build/class demands are even worse than games like WoW. In no moment in WoW have I been denied in a PuG or seen LFG messages saying “only these classes and specs, not these others”.
And that’s with DPS meters and even further, combat logging analytic tools.
And yet you’re acting as if this game gaining a DPS meter will be the difference between elitism and not having it, as if people were so stupid as to no realize that some classes are doing so much more damage than other classes and often these very classes also have overwhelmingly good utility to boot.
You may like to stick your head in the sand, but that doesn’t mean everybody else doesn’t have alts and realize how certain classes perform compared to others while you waste people’s time with your PHIW staff condi necro.
You must have not played a lot of WoW, or only with friends/guildies or only the LFR if at all with chat turned off.
Funny thing, playing with friends/guildies here will also cause a lot less heartache.
Here is a hint, if it comes to elitism, don’t bring up WoW. There is enough MMO players who have spent a VERY long time in WoW in the past, present or future to know when they are getting bsed.
Saying there is no elitism in WoW will definately hurt your credibility.
I’m not even going to open the can that is: gearscore, or discrimination vs tanks/healers (back when tanks/healers actually had to do stuff in wow), discrimination versus certain builds or just general balance rotation of classes Blizzard runs.
Think lot of people ignored my main question; which is, by going full assassin is the ferocity boost (gained from blood reaction trait) gain you any dps boost? as for my crit chance currently in berserker gear i have no problem maintaining 90%+. So far from what i gathered its worth in investing in both gears?
Unlikely, since the amount of precision you have more in assassins over berserker is not that much. To lazy for the exact math, but it basically boils down to this:
Full Berserker Gear (old school):
- still has precision as secondary so he misses about 33% precision from gear only
- might also not hit crit cap, not sure what the math on warriors was
→ probably the most difference you are going to get.
Berserker with splash Assassins (current optimal):
- hits crit cap in a group enviroment
- has slightly less precision than full assassins
→ ideal nothing more to say
Full Assassins (more solo oriented than group content):
- takes a hit as cap power goes (a nono)
- has over cap precision resulting in wasted stats (a very big nono)
- gains the most from blood reaction (which is negligable since you gain back about 7-14% of stats you are over caped on precision with)
→ maybe intersting for soloing, but even here with all the boons flying around and warriors easy access to self ferocity very likely to heavy on precision
The only real gain you have in assassins over berserker is the higher precision, which if overdone leads to a lot of overcap useless stat points (can’t go over 100% crit). The small gain of 7-14% ferocity does not really cover that.
As I said, to lazy for the exact math, but I highly doubt the result would vary. It seems like common sense that if you enter wasted stat point areas, that would result in worse performance.
True, though not failing at GW2 is easy enough without dps meters. If you need dps meters to “not fail” at any GW2 content, you have way more serious problems to deal with than the addition of damage meters.
How did you get that from what I wrote? I was responding to your claims that there is rampant elitism around content. I don’t need dps meters to play my own builds correctly.
The point of my post was that it’s not elitism to expect people to pull their weight. The only ‘serious problems’ I have to deal with is that I can play a piece of content correctly and still lose because of other players not contributing.
I was taking your point and assuming it had to do with the topic of this thread at hand.
If I misstook your comment and you actually ment elitism in general, then sorry, no to that too.
Elitism as defined by -
1
: leadership or rule by an elite
2
: the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery <elitism in choosing new members>
3
: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite
- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elitism
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their superiority, as in intelligence, social standing, or wealth.
- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elitism
The belief that one’s social group is superior to another group. elitist
- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=elitism
In general elitism has a negativ connotation and was used as such by me. In GW2 I was refering to people feeling better or more important than others and verbaly, or otherwise, abusing their peers (aka flaming, cursing, blaming, etc.) over ingame content.
Yes, it’s fine to be excited, passionate, striving, etc. about completing ingame content (how ever hard that content might be), but there is no reason to be a kitten about it to others.
Spreadsheets cannot model confusion for different bosses, so actually yes in game DPS meters are needed for that.
Anet haven’t given sanction to third part program DPS meters.
You genuinely think TV hasn’t changed society in a noticable way? Wow.. I’ll just pretend you said that out of passion.
You seem to be ignoring personal improvement as the primary reason for it.
Why are you scared of DPS meters? Being provably incompetent?
No such modeling is needed for any ingame GW2 content. Again, the game is not so hard as that it warrents this kind of optimisation, especially when the possible fracture of the community gets increased.
Also reading comprehension please. I never said TV did not change society. I said the effects of TV on such a huge scale are less visible and direct to an individual compared to a way smaller group of people expriencing massive change to their smaller community.
Best example is the elitism around harder content.
The desire to not fail despite playing correctly is not elitism.
True, though not failing at GW2 is easy enough without dps meters. If you need dps meters to “not fail” at any GW2 content, you have way more serious problems to deal with than the addition of damage meters.
Prophecies has five armor sets. Factions has twelve armor sets. Nightfall has seven armor sets. EotN has four armor sets plus one that can only be used by one profession. Then there’s one armor set you can get from an elite map.
GW2 came out with more armor sets than GW1 combined. HoT had four armor sets plus one specific to an armor weight. That’s pretty much how GW1’s expansion was.
We’re also not taking into consideration how some armor sets were re-skins.
I’m pretty sure that’s wrong.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Prophecies_armorAnd it has more armor sets per class – now you get 3 armor sets per weight.
It means ALL heavies get 3 armor sets – not 3 sets per warrior, 3 per guardian, 3 per revenant, etc.
I listed them in the same way people usually use for GW2. Those who compare it against GW1 tend to split it by profession and distort the comparison. With GW2, you can split it by armor weight and then by race. Oh, and by gender.
Each GW1 armor set can have up to 18 variations depending on profession and gender. GW2 armor sets can have up to 30 variations depending on armor weight, gender, and race.
I refer to armor sets by the name of the set and not by each variation.
That is essentially one of the major things most people do not consider.
The fact that GW1 had only humans (male/female) and GW2 has 5 different races (male/female) for which armor needs to get designed. Granted even if you assume Sylvari and Humans are very similar with Norn just requireing some size adjustments. Charr and Asura definately require their own design for every single armor piece. That alone means that any armor set introduced to GW2 has a minimum of 3-5 times the amount of work (not factoring for improved grafics, more detail, third dimension requirements).
Now I’m not justifying the amount of armors, just that the comparisons to GW1 are not in favor of GW1, but rather GW2 if you go objectively about it (pink glasses of nostalgia aside).
The DPS meter also will open up build diversity. Right now I want to test confusion builds (cannot test on dummies or spreadsheets – Tequatl is kittening hilarious, stack before he breathes ^^), I do not know (without an “ok” from anet) if I will be allowed to use a 3rd party DPS meter and would be scared to do so. Thats just me, imagine all the people in the game who could run an experiment, get data and be able to prove their idea works well on boss X or Y. You will get TONS of inventive and creative builds suddenly coming forward with real proof.
This is already being done by raid guilds via spreadsheets, parsers and rotation simulations. The data is out there. Near optimal builds for maximising damage rotations are available and quite a few players are constantly trying out new things.
That being said, the amount of variables are limited. Expecting to come up with a new genious build no one has ever thought of are near 0. Sure you might pride yourself that you came up with a similar build that someone else already created, but always assume there is another player out there with:
- more time
- more knowledge
- more data
- more creativity
unless you are a basement dweling, 12-14 hours per day playing, creative, hobby mathematician. Then yes, you might have a valid point in that damage meters would help your work. Doesn’t change the fact that if you are this obsessed with the game, the 3rd party damage parsers work for you just as well for now.
Worrying that some people would misuse them is like asking TV not to be invented because the Kardashians (sp?) might get famous. Yes it will happen, but its worth it for the greater good.
Yeah, no. That example is no where near similar.
The effect TV has on society as a whole is way less noticable to the individual than a change of behavior in a small community.
The possible negativ impacts on a MMO community are way more drastic than global social change. This has been visible in every step that arenanet (or other MMO developers) have taken. Best example is the elitism around harder content.
Saying that negative changes are “worth it” for the greater good would mean that the “greater good” is actually of value.
As is NO content in Guild Wars 2 requires this amount of optimisation. The chance of this being required is doubtful at best the way the game is and has been headed (aka being very casual). So essentially no, adding a nearly meaningless damage meter option which is not required does not qualify as being more valuable than possible negative results in the games playerbase.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Why? Because it will end exactly the same way Tequatle ended. Either the boss becomes to hard and a big majority of the playerbase start complaining and/or stop doing the boss which ultimately leads to arenanet caving and making the fight faceroll once again.
….The devs admitted that version of Teq was unintentional. It was a bug when they increased the WB’s health pools, but made them critable – Tez got the HP increase, but was only critable from one small spot below his head ( I think). The devs didn’t “cave” to anyone, they fixed their mistake.
Except that tequatle was UNCRITTABLE ever since his revamp. Unlike any other world boss. This was by design.
Either way, they admitted that version of Teq was a MISTAKE, and they fixed it.
Okay, then let’s look at activity and amount of people doing Tripple Trouble. Or how about we look at Tangled Depths? That one just got nerfed recently due to difficulty.
What about the general complaints about HoT difficulty?
Fact remains, the moment open world content becomes even remotely challenging, the cries for nerfs grow.
Making world bosses more interesting would be fun, but pointless if no challenge is added since it becomes old content after 5 times you’ve run it. After that it’s all about how fast can I get my reward.
Making world bosses more challenging is pointless if they just make them slightly hard and everything beyond that either gets nerfed again or shuned by a big majority of the playerbase.
Longstory short: wasted developer time.
Why? Because it will end exactly the same way Tequatle ended. Either the boss becomes to hard and a big majority of the playerbase start complaining and/or stop doing the boss which ultimately leads to arenanet caving and making the fight faceroll once again.
….The devs admitted that version of Teq was unintentional. It was a bug when they increased the WB’s health pools, but made them critable – Tez got the HP increase, but was only critable from one small spot below his head ( I think). The devs didn’t “cave” to anyone, they fixed their mistake.
Except that tequatle was UNCRITTABLE ever since his revamp. Unlike any other world boss. This was by design.
For a complete set purchased with laurels, it will cost a whopping 150 laurels (180 if you want infusions)… Those numbers ARE excessive considering we are gated to a MAX 55 laurels per month… You are asking players to wait an entire 3 months (and 16 days if you want infusions)… The wait is an entire QUARTER year and season for enough laurels for a complete set… This IS too much waiting and gating and cost, so here are my suggestions…
Actually they are asking players to go do fractals and guild missions. Around two weeks for all the rings and accessories.
Infused ascended rings x2 in 2 weeks? Good luck with that!!!
I’ve been doing them for a 5 weeks solid as a newbie to GW2 and last night I got my first ever infused drop. To infuse them in the forge takes Vials/Globs and Shards of Mists Essence and I’ve only ever had 11 Vials.I know for the 2 Accessories it’s 2 weeks in Guild Missions – no other way afaik.
Complete enough dailies worth to get 10 (20) pristine relics. Without 51-100 daily that’s 5 days.
Now farm fractal level 52 (Grawl) begining part (no agony restaince required) for Shards of Mists (about 1-3 hours to have enough Shards for both rings depending on your luck).
Deconstruct shards into globs and globs into vials until you have the required amount of all.
Infuse rings at the mistc forge.
Your right, it takes even less than 2 weeks. I guess Khisanth wanted to give some leeway.
EDIT:
Ascended gear is only necessary in Fractals, so if you don’t do Fractals what’s the rush?
This. But I still like my suggestion because it’s elegant and convenient…for both players and programmers. OP responded and made a good point that converting the trinket system to amulet-only would open slots for things like auras…and I’d also like to throw in a slot for the halo, and while we’re at it, how about using one of the defunct slots for tonic.
While your idea is interesting. It takes away a LOT of customisation possibilities on trinkets. It would also require a complete revamp of agony resistance, upgrades for exotic items and infusions in general.
Most of the customisation would be forced onto armor and weapons which are very expensive for ascended gear. Not sure a lot of people would enjoy that.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
None of them. Maybe the ones that are story relevant for the next Elder Dragon and Living Story.
Why? Because it will end exactly the same way Tequatle ended. Either the boss becomes to hard and a big majority of the playerbase start complaining and/or stop doing the boss which ultimately leads to arenanet caving and making the fight faceroll once again.
No, no matter how “interesting” a world boss is. By the time you’ve killed him 10 times you will be bored. No reason to waste developer time on this.
Give the ones that are story relevant a revamp so when we have to kill them they are not to boring, but let’s not get trapped in the same old:
“We want harder content”
→ arenanet changes world boss to be harder and more challenging
“Wah wah, you over did it. The boss is unkillable. You suck!”
→ arenanet makes boss farmable again by nerfing
“We want harder content”
….
Thanks a lot Cyninja. I do know about toughness scalling up only until 50, but that nasty instability which gives mobs and bosses boons when crticially hit is something that requires the least possible precision. Is it really that easy to just faceroll that instability with full zerk? It sounds like a waste of time with all that regen, aegis and constant protection the bosses must have if you are killing them in zerk party.
Edit: yeah, I have just 1 ascended armor – heavy. The 3 boxes I have were supposed to be light. But I’m not really that much attracted to light classes :/
The instability you are thinking of is for fractal levels 41-50 No pain, No gain (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists) and is indeed anoying but absolutely doable in full zerker.
I would probably recommend you go with exotic armor for now. You can get quite a lot of agony resistance with only trinkets and weapons (was it 114 or so?) which would get you all the way to fractal level 78-80. Then you can still decide if or what class you want to play. Ascended armor is very expensive and only useful for the agony resistance. You should be very sure it’s the right armor type that you pick. Who knows, on your way to fractal level 75+ you might even get lucky and 1-2 ascended boxes drop.
Hey guys, please can you tell me from your experience what is the most useful profession for fractals 50-100? I used to play guardian but I quite uselessly changed his gear into cavalier/knight/zerk for vale guardian (I still hope there will be more bosses that need to be tanked so i’m not going to change it) so he is quite useless in fractals now. I have 3 ascended armor boxes and I am thinking about building the full set just for fractals. But I don’t know what to pick. High level fractals need condition and not zerk…. Should I play for engi/necro/mesmer/ something else? What stat combo would you suggest? (I’m saving up black diamonds just in case).
Someone didn’t get the memo of the toughness revamp for post 50 fractals. Condition damage is nice, but certainly not mandatory.
If you want to go all out ascended, decide which armor type first:
- Heavy
Warrior – still useful for standards
Revenant – the new faceroll auto afk class
Guardian – still nice to have in fractals
- Medium
Thief – stealth skips are less important for pugs, but useful for organised groups
Engineer – good condition damage master of all class. To bad so many suck at playing it
Ranger – they got pets, which are kind of useless.
- Light
Elementalist – good ele is great to have. They got it all, boons, damage, utility
Necromancer – still a damage beast. still not to mch utility
Mesmer – that 1 chrono can be really usefull, if the player can play the class
That being said, fractals have become seriously faceroll compared to pre HoT(not that they were hard to begin with ever since the agony changes). They increased the maximum fractal level to 100, but streatched fractal difficulty too. Basically the current fractal 50 is about fractal 30 pre HoT, current fractal 70 is about fractal 50 pre HoT. Rest are mostly minor inconveniances with 2-3 nasty fractals due to instabilities. What I’m trying to say is, every class can do the content.
Not sure how many sets of ascended armor you have. That might influence which armor type you’ll want to go for. Since you seem to own 1 heavy set, you might want to consider getting a light armor set with those boxes. Personally I value heavy>light>medium as far as overall class usefulness goes (absolute personal preference).
Condition damage versus zerkeris not that big of an issue every since the december patch, so that should not affect your decision to much. Also consider if you are puging or playing in an organised group, big difference.
My personal favorites: Revenant, Guardian and Mesmer.
EDIT:
PS Warrior, Alacrity/Quickness Mesmer, Condi Warrior, Sword/X Herald and D/W Fresh Air Elementalist are some of the most powerful profession right now for instanced content.
Agreed.
I think people just haven’t realised what abandoned content actually means.
They have literally NO ONE working on dungeons. They do not care about dungeons. They do not care about improving or changing dungeons. Dungeons are DEAD.
It’s not about rewards or lack thereof or balance or difficulty. It’s about the content not getting supported any longer. If it wasn’t for the story mode being an integral part of the GW2 vanilla lore, I would bet arenanet would have removed the content completely.
@Cyninja… There are lots of methods of course, you miss the points…
These items are available in wvw, so are you saying that’s not an “intended method”… Are you going to tell all the players who prefer the competitive aspect of the game that it’s not an “intended method”?
Some players prefer fractals, so great for them… You can’t force them into other game modes if that’s not desired…
Your wordings of “intended method” and “it’s not meant” and “highly inefficient”… do not apply to the spirit of this thread and are just “paper covering holes” commentary.
There is nothing wrong with suggesting to reevaluate these laurel systems…
True, and that is why wvw players get all those ascended trinket items at discounts as far as laurel cost goes compared to normal laurels costs.
Arenanet have state multiple times that they want players to take part in all of the game modes. Only because they implement backup aquisition methods does not mean those have to be jsut as fast as the primary way of aquisition. Here is a train of thought:
- ascended trinkets were not available at all for laurels back when rings got introduced
- how about we revome all ascended trinkets aside from amulets from the laurel merchant? Then there would be no reason to complain about to high laurel costs
There might be nothing wrong against reevaluation of the ascended trinkets aquisitions, but the laurel system is fine as is. There are way to many items available via laurels that would have to be looked at if laurels were made farmable.
The quarter year argument is bs. It takes exactly 30 days to get all the ascended trinkets one needs for a character (that is unless you get some of them via achievements, which is faster). Those 30 days are equivalent to the laurel cost of the amulet. Rings take exactly 2 days per ring. If you want to waste 20 days worth of laurels for that, that is your decision. Accessoires take 2 weeks worth of guild missions per slot, so again 4 weeks.
None of the activities require a huge unjustifiable time comitment from the player. I’d understand people not working on getting their gear if it took hundreds of hours. As is, we are talking not even 4-5 hours per item stretched over an entire month and easily split up into smaller segments most difficult being the guild missions. That is not unreasonable or to much to ask for.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
You do know there are other ways to get asc jewelry? If not, do some research before you write a complaining thread.
This.
The laurel price for ascended items is a backup option for people who are unwilling or incapable to get the desired trinket via the intended method. It’s not ment for someone to buy ALL their trinkets via laurels, that is and should be highly inefficient (since laurels require no gameplay at all, only login).
For more details, read up on: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment
and more specifically: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_trinket
Personally I could care less. I’m confident enough in my skills and past experiences that I usually perform decent enough to not fear damage meters.
As far as self improvement goes, I don’t see it. At least not as beneficial as everyone is trying to make it out to be.
Let’s look at what players might be interested in damage meters:
- people who want to optimize their build, rotation etc.
- groups who want to improve their composition, rotations, players
- raids
Essentially these are players who already will use methods available to them to optimize their performance. As menttioned, there are 3rd party dps meters that can be run. Maybe arenanet will take an official stance on this.
Now, who might abuse, misuse or misunderstand damage meters:
- players who don’t know what a damage meter is good for
- players who don’t undertand the difference between class roles and that a high damage number might not be given for each role
- players discriminating against certain classes (we all know this will happen)
Essentially all players who lack a general understanding of the game and/or what damage meters are good for (self/build optimizastion).
On the idea of damage meters allowing for build variety: No.
Yes in theory it sounds nice, people can prove their build works, but in reality this will play out differently. There will be 1 or 2 “meta builds” that achieve the highest amount of possible dps no matter what they sacrifice. Bad players will start demanding people run these builds and everything else will get omited. It’s already happening without damage meters and metabattle where players just copy bad builds without customizing them.
Adding damage meters would essentially be a small conveniance addition for already engaged, intelligent and optimizing players, while at the same time a huge addition for more bullying, hostility and discrimination in the player base. It’s happened in every game with damage meters (especially WoW) and it would happen here too.
Actually they have announced a while back (before HoT release) that they won’t be offerring new armor skin sets on the tp anymore, only outfits.
That said, the expansion came with three sets each for light and medium (bladed, leystone, guild) and four for heavy (the former plus the mist-something armor for the revenant), as well as individual pieces for each elite specialization. Seeing how living story season two also brought two new armor sets (carapace and luminescent), I’m hoping to see more new armor with season 3 later this year.
Outfit and armor are the same crap. You can disable the helmet and even shoulders. Point is, the chunk of the looks are being made available by cash shop, and an even larger portion locked behind the gambling boxes that are black lion ticket scraps.
Besides, the armors you mentioned added is a pitiful excuse. Most of them are locked behind zerg event and gold grinds.
Core Tyria came with 8 dungeons, of each with 3 paths except arah that came with 4 in addition to the story instances. So, 33 instances.
So 8 sets of light, medium, and heavy armor behind instanced content involving groups and teamwork and not a zerg event grind where strangers mash their autoattack at a HP punching bag. That’s double what we received from an expansion alone, not including other base sets not coming from dungeons.
And this came not from garbage zerg content where all you have to do is map hop and sit with your ranged weapon mashing 1 at the boss until it dies AFK style ala Vinewrath.
Outfits and armor are by far not “the same crap”. They function different enough to warrent a distinction. You might not care about the difference (being that outfits can not be altered but togled on/off at will on every character) but a great many players who love customizing their characters do.
On topic, there were 3 full sets of armor added with HoT (4 for heavy armor users). Most cosmetic additions came in form of weapon, backpiece and glider skins though. See http://dulfy.net/2015/11/08/gw2-hot-weapons-armor-and-backpieces-guide/#Guild_Armor for details.
You trade the ability to mix and match pieces (defeating the purpose of the word “armor SET”) by gaining an outfit you don’t have to constantly spend transmutation charges on.
The point that cosmetic variety comes mainly from the cash shop still stands, and you reiterated your point about 3 sets for no reason whatsoever; I already acknowledged it and raised a counter explaining what a pitiful amount that is in comparison for what you got in vanilla GW2 and the awful HoT zerg content required to obtain that armor versus other venues for acquisition in vanilla.
Outfits:
- non changeable
- on/off toggle and thus available to every character on the account
Armor skins:
- single item only
- require transmutation charges
- override each other
That qualifies as 2 different game mechanics in my opinion. So no, it’s not “the same crap” as you stated. Different functionality for different purpose. Again, if you enjoy using a full skin without altering parts, this might be of no difference to you (except for the 6 transmutation charges) but there are a LOT of players who enjoy mix and matching different pieces.
You trade the ability to mix and match pieces (defeating the purpose of the word “armor SET”) by gaining an outfit you don’t have to constantly spend transmutation charges on.
Hence why they are called outfits.
I never disagreed that the amount of armor sets offered with HoT was low. I disagreed with your statement that outfits and armors are equal or similar.
The majority of cosmetic skins added were for weapons and other pieces.
“Just hit lvl 80, what now?”
Well, you flip out that big ‘ole wallet ya got there, and ya go to the gem store. Once there, spend alot of money gems, while buying completely meaningless things like pet rocks and outfits that you really can’t customize. Then, after you realize thats not giving you a fun and unique look, just start turning that hard earned cash into gems, and from there, gems to gold. Then, and only then, will you be able to really experience the fun of this game as you realize it costs right around $1000 to buy the materials to craft a legendary. Or, you could just grind for the materials, and wished you’d made better life decisions. Good luck!
Or instead of obsses over the game, decide that legendarys are longterm goals which do not have to be completed day 1 or day 30. Play parts of the rest of the game you enjoy and eventually reach your goal. Or if nothing is fun to you, leave for another game.
But sure, let’s give the old “buy it with real $$$” advice. Only problem is, if the game wasn’t fun beforehand, having that nice new legendary will not make it any more fun afterwards. It remains the same game.
Why is this so hard to understand? If collectively, players report openings in bulk of 1000 chests, their average is likely to be fairly accurate. You’re not going to be able to collect this data on your own (in any reasonable amount of time anyway). We have already collected this data. It’s about 10-12%. Why is that hard to accept?
Its hard to understand because it hasnt yet be replicated.
IF everyone has the exact same chance of dropping an ascended chest at the end of a given fractal daily, then any collection of data collect by a group should be easy to duplicate by any other group that tries it because, as you say there is no other variable.
However, if another group cant duplicate the results then you have to look at the possible reasons why: faulty data collection, different times data was collected (different builds that altered loot tables), and the population used in each collection.
I have not been able to get anything close to 12% for the entire population of my sample group. I do have 1 guys who is currently sitting around 20% (3 chests in the last three weeks) but in the same time frame only 2 other chest dropped to 2 different people, which only comes out to a 6.667%. Yes, its early and +/-1 drop has the power to swing the % a lot but so far my numbers support what most people have seem to have suspected for weeks now and that is drop rates for ascended chests are greatly reduced compared to pre-HoT
Correct, your only problem is: your sample size is laughable.
There, problem solved. That’s why you can’t replicate the data shown.
Every other collection of drop research provided by hundreds or thousands of players does point to a correction of the drops post the december update (in fact it pointed to way to low drops pre in the first place, which is why arenanet took a look at the droprate).
So now please, either get about 400-500 runs worth of drop research more (minimum) or let it be. You’re not even grasping at straws any more.
Well, to be fair to Anet (lol) it’s only been since October 27 that they’ve know that there is a problem with the Megaserver and empty maps.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/heads-up-iteration-incoming/
Excerpt:“Finally, we’ve discovered a setting that was creating some lower populations in maps in the Heart of Maguuma than we’d ideally been looking for with our megaserver system. We’re really happy with the difficulty of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns—our players have asked for more meaningful challenge from Guild Wars 2, and we believe Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is bringing that—but having lots of players to play with makes that much more fun, so we’ll make sure you’re always in maps with numerous friends (and soon-to-be friends) to play with.”
The maps are empty because the game is dying. It really is that simple. The HoT maps are so boring that they failed to attract enough player to populate the maps without extensive taxi play.
And yet every day thousands of people complete the meta events and are playing the maps.
The maps are empty if you get placed unlucky in an empty map and can’t be bothered to use the LFG tool to find a populated one.
Then again, I’ve entered multiple maps of TD where the meta event was completed shortly after without having to use the LFG tool. Obviously some maps are more populated at different times. It has to do with the real time event cycle the maps have. Take a look at that. Entering a Verdant Brink 5 minutes after night has passed might not be the best indicator of how full maps are.
On topic, yes the megaserver system is not ideal with the way the new map rewards are designed. I’d also love for a way to turn in the participation early. Nothing worse than having 200% participation and having to wait over an hour until the meta event gets completed.
Actually they have announced a while back (before HoT release) that they won’t be offerring new armor skin sets on the tp anymore, only outfits.
That said, the expansion came with three sets each for light and medium (bladed, leystone, guild) and four for heavy (the former plus the mist-something armor for the revenant), as well as individual pieces for each elite specialization. Seeing how living story season two also brought two new armor sets (carapace and luminescent), I’m hoping to see more new armor with season 3 later this year.
Outfit and armor are the same crap. You can disable the helmet and even shoulders. Point is, the chunk of the looks are being made available by cash shop, and an even larger portion locked behind the gambling boxes that are black lion ticket scraps.
Besides, the armors you mentioned added is a pitiful excuse. Most of them are locked behind zerg event and gold grinds.
Core Tyria came with 8 dungeons, of each with 3 paths except arah that came with 4 in addition to the story instances. So, 33 instances.
So 8 sets of light, medium, and heavy armor behind instanced content involving groups and teamwork and not a zerg event grind where strangers mash their autoattack at a HP punching bag. That’s double what we received from an expansion alone, not including other base sets not coming from dungeons.
And this came not from garbage zerg content where all you have to do is map hop and sit with your ranged weapon mashing 1 at the boss until it dies AFK style ala Vinewrath.
Outfits and armor are by far not “the same crap”. They function different enough to warrent a distinction. You might not care about the difference (being that outfits can not be altered but togled on/off at will on every character) but a great many players who love customizing their characters do.
On topic, there were 3 full sets of armor added with HoT (4 for heavy armor users). Most cosmetic additions came in form of weapon, backpiece and glider skins though. See http://dulfy.net/2015/11/08/gw2-hot-weapons-armor-and-backpieces-guide/#Guild_Armor for details.
The “enormous” expense is easily justified by the amount of people who want this. As for why it’s not done already. It’s because for every person trying to accomplish something, there is another trying to get in the way.
I don’t think you understand how forums work, at all. No one here has the ability to get in the way. Pointing out problems with your idea isn’t the reason why it’s not done already. The purpose of a forum is to discuss things. Someone may propose an idea, but others pointing out flaws in the idea or saying that the Devs have already said no aren’t being obstructionistic, they’re pointing out why it might not work. If you don’t want a discussion of your idea and people pointing out problems with it, then I suggest you don’t post on a public forum.
This.
TC has been very hostile towards people who have told him what arenanets stance is on this topic.
Even after provided a direct link to arenanets answer that this will issue will not get tackled, he continues to argue and blames other forum posters who essentially just wanted to have him not waste his time.
That’s not a dialoge, it’s a monologue which you can ahve by yourself and don’t need the forums for.
Would arenanet LOVE to make more money with something like race/class changes? Sure, the issue has come up before. Their answer was: it’s to complicated to be done.
Now deal with it or continue on your futile quest, but stop blaming other players.