Guild Wars 2

If we start throwing around terms like pay-to-win, we should be careful what we look at.

Is 1 expansion in 3 years pay-to-win? Sure, if you make no distinction between buy-to-win and pay-to-win.

But where do you draw the line? What about scaling in pay-to-win? Is a game that requires constant ingame shop purchases better or similar to one that brings out an expansion? Was Guild Wars 1 pay-to-win? I don’t recall people ever naming it that.

Are elite specs a clear increase in power? For most classes, yes.

Are they the problem spvp is having right now? No. Balance between classes is way more out of hand.

Will the expansion eventually drop in price? Sure.

As Jafw said, people just like throwing around the term pay-2-win to dramatise the argument.

Also lol at the comparison between GW2 and Dota. If you think the buy-to-win aspect of GW2 is what is holding it back, you are either a pve player talking bs on a topic you know nothing about, or you just wanted to sound smart. Fail in both cases.

Ayrilana.1396:

Donari.5237:

I think this will be the first year I don’t manage the Wintersday meta, myself. I think I have to do the JP to do it (as I’m not doing the drinks) and I simply can’t. Even when I jump fast as I can I die long before I get to candy canes. Unless standing on a tower rampart = instadeath? On my best try this year I jumped on a tower, began to spin my camera to the next snowflake, and bam I was back at the start. I assumed it was from the freezing damage, which I had absolutely no time to look at. But maybe I wasn’t allowed to jump on anything but snowflakes?

I think you have to stay on the snowflakes or candy cane platforms for that entire time. You should not need to jump onto any of the towers. One trick is to hold down the right mouse button as you do the JP. This allows you to move your hararwith your camera.

Try using the action cam. Saves you keeping the right mouse button pressed.

Since they’ve already started down the road of having 2 different sets of infusions (one set for wvw, another for agony aka fractals) I doubt they are going to change this.

It would require to revamp the entire system. I’m sure there is plenty of people who are anoyed their +5 power +5 agony resistance infusions have become outclassed by +7 ar infusions (total 3k gold worth of Powerful Blood down the drain).

As is I think the system is convoluted and overly complex. No reason for offensive, defensive and utility infusion slots. Should have just made it 1 slot type. Still, don’t think this any where near the plate of things arenanet are working on right now. There is more Black Lion Ticket skins that need designing.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Thaddeus.4891:

Yaki.9563:

I’m pretty disappointed. I guess I’m forced to craft ascended armor and weapons if I want to continue in fractals and that is just not worth it. I opened about 20 days worth of daily boxes (40 regular, 20 adept, 20 of the middle tier) and got nothing. GG and bye bye.

If you bother looking thing up. If only lol.

Ascended box are dropped from daily 51-100. There is a very small chance to drop from Veteran and zero from Adept and Mist chest.

With Trinkets alone you can reach 94 AR which mean you can do up to level 68 where you should get about 1 Ascended box (weapons or armor) for every 6 days on average.

Pretty much similar to what we used to have.

Honestly, what data are you looking at?

I’m looking at King’s Fractal Drop Rate data here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18IHVJao5j85KOp6lBTOgO8qs4VYD3Xty-jKPZo8o-Q4/pubhtml#

These data indicate that from the daily boxes you have about a 12.5% chance of getting an armor box from a Champion daily chest, and practically 0 chance from any other chest. That’s a skin every 8 days. Pre-HoT if you did 50, 40, 30 daily you’d get an armor box every 5 days or so (again, using that same data sheet.)

Skin drops have been radically nerfed – about 1 per 5 days to 1 per 25 days. Golden skin drops are abysmal – about 1 per 50 days.

The rewards are worse than before HoT, still. The only thing that’s better now is XP and maybe gold, though I haven’t looked at that data.

Pre HoT, dailies took 4 fractals, now it’s 3. (this easily accounts for the now slight reduction of ascended armor droprate from lower fractal daily chests, not to mention the 3 fractal dailies take way less amount of time now)

Skin drops have been nerfed. Then again pristine fractal relic drops are up (considering very few people ran 30,40 and 50 pre HoT, especially once they were full ascended). Now a lot more people are running all the fractal dailies. Oh and those pristine relics at 5 per day? 4 days per skin once you’ve completed fractal 50. Skin availability is WAY up.

If XP, Gold, skins and total ascended gear aquisition is up, what else is there which is worse than pre HoT?

Murelax.6398:

AS before mb drop rate depends on personal fractal lvl.
we have max lvl 100 now , so in scale with the old system 50 max.

if your lvl is 75 atm then you are like 25 in the old system.
I think skins in the old system started to drop after personal lvl 25… or something ,
So higher fractal personal LVL more shinnies

I call bs.

Fractal level 100 is way above the old 50. Not only visible via the increased necessity for agony resist, but also from mob life and damage.

Level 70 equats aproximately to the old 50 in form of difficulty and agony resistance needed.

Reading about the rewards people are getting from master boxes, it seems to equal pre change drops (actually a bit higher). 1 ascended per aproximately 10 dailies was common.

Same here.

Deleted local.dat, even redownloaded the full game.

Didn’t help. Very anoying. Probably enough to keep logins to 1nce per day and just not play. Having to redo all the options every single time after login/disconnect is not fun.

- 25 adept chests opened
- 25 veteran chests opened
- 25 master chests opened

got 2 or 3 skins. I think we are good on getting skins via RNG. Don’t care much since I have the collection done, but one luck streak no buff makes.

Gaile Gray.6029:

In this iteration, there will be several changes to how fractals give out liquid rewards (gold and items designed to convert directly into gold). The negative aspect of this change is a required decrease to the amount of keys you receive from converting a stabilizing matrix from two to one. However the upside is threefold:

- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Upcoming-Fractal-Changes/first (posted over a month ago)

So you being illinformed is arenanets fault? The change to keys was THE ONLY THING we knew for sure was going to happen.

Yamialexa.5103:

laokoko.7403:

What I’m saying is you are telling people to spend their time staying in town, looking at spreadsheet, learning the market when they can spend their time “out side of town”. Maybe that’s what they rather do.

What I’m saying is not everyone want to spend their time doing flipping(which they might not enjoy).

Many people barely have time to play after work. I doubt they want to stay in town playing with the TP. Even if TP don’t take long for some, it still take “effort” to learn.

Sorry, but this is a bit of a useless argument. This is a thread about how to make gold. People suggest how to make gold. The TP is one way shown and saying “oh maybe they don’t want to do that” doesn’t do anything. Sure, maybe people don’t want to do flipping. But maybe they don’t want to do SW either. Or they don’t want to farm wood and the like. Maybe they simply want to known different ways of how to get money and do a little of everything. But the point is, that’s for the people to decide for THEMSELVES after seeing the possibilities. Not for someone else.

True, but in that case also mention the huge possibility of losing a lot of gold if you unsuccessfully flip. Which so far no one has done. All people have been saying is:“do it”.

That’s the major difference between flipping and other gold farm. If you farm Silverwastes and prices drop, you lose out on your income, but you aren’t risking ingame assets.

If you manage to curb your spending, you win all-around.

If you missflip (and that will happen) you will lose out on gold.

The inherent nature of the risk flipping holds is part of the reason why it can be so lucrative. If it were 100% safe, everyone would be doing it (well not everyone, but a lot more people).

Yamialexa.5103:

You’re not exactly considering people either.
There are people who have no idea how flipping works or that it’s even a thing. I was among them. I only learned about it through the forums, read tips and tricks and other advice people gave and tried it out for myself. Sure, I’m nowhere near the level of Wanze or other trading moguls, but it helps me get a bit extra, so I can get some gems for gold or afford my next ascended armor.

Stating something does not make it true.

So you enjoy flipping and it works for you. Great. I haven’t seen you, as well as Wazzouf, once mention that flipping could be risky.

As long as we have threads where people have no idea:

- how the trading post works (listing tax and sell tax. had one of those just yesterday where someone was considering the TP being broken)
- how the gem exchange works (where gold gets created do to magic)
- people spending way more gold then thay make

I will not recommend them starting to flip as the very first option. If they get more accustomed or interested in how trade works, they’ll find out about these things on their own or in more serious threads.

People will always take the path of least resistance. Thats nothing new. As is, the horrid toughness scaling just is the icing on top. Even after nerfing this, rest assured people will keep running

- Swamp – very fast
- Molten Boss – fast too, but insane toughness/vitality atm
- Jade Maw – very easy

Adding in random tripplets of daily fractals would essentially have the system work similar to how fractals were in the past. It would reduce the accessibility for a more diverse gameplay experience. I’m fine with that, not sure many more casual players are too though. I’ve said this in the past, I miss the excitement of getting that super smooth run (Swamp-Ascalon-Volcanic-MB), or the power through of having Swamp-Cliffside-Taumanova-Mai Trin pop up.

No matter what arenanet decide or how they decide to change fractals. They should always keep 1 thing in mind: no matter how much you nerf or put blocks in the way of players. There will always be an “easiest” way which people will aim for. Designing around this is the art. Not nerfing or fixing things left and right. Not to mention that their fixes usually just endup leaving stuff even more broken. Poor Mossman will have to returf his roof after the last few weeks, after having to take a deep breath from swimming so much or having his bridge destroyed and his tree stomped into the ground.

As is, even the anoying 41-50 fractal instability (enemys gain boons on crit) just gets ignored. This is essentially the only one where boonstrip might be interesting.

It’s a lot easier to:

A.) just work through the boons
B.) bring condi builds with less crit and just not have them build up in the first place

Getting ascended for necro or mesmer should not be dependant on boonstrip. Both of those classes (especially mesmer/chronomancer) get taken along for other things besides boonstrip. You should instead consider if you enjoy playing the class.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

laokoko.7403:

Most of it is already soloable. Even cof path 1 is soloable if you have 5 account(and I actually tried it).

What do u mean if u have 5 accounts? am i to understand you’re saying having 5 gw2 accounts? and if so, you want me to play 5 different accounts at once? geez, no tnx. lol. How’s that even possible, certainly not for me coz u know, i ain’t superwoman.

What he is saying is:

- the only reason some paths are not soloable is due to mechanics. Every other path is solable and has been soloed. Same goes for fractals.

Solo AC P1 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gMSucIhDTs
Solo AC P2 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CT8eGZW4g
Solo AC P3 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmYf0Y9fqDU

Solo CM P1 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzTm_FHWhho
Solo CM P2 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJZ_Tn6-J0U
Solo CM P3- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4opy32ySzU

Solo Arah P2 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXnuNuDXIt0
Solo Arah P3 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9TK6zMgdOg

I could go on, but I think you get the drift.

Wazzouf.2748:

Cyninja.2954:

Wazzouf.2748:

If you wanna make only a few golds per day= Farm
If you wanna make a huge amount of gold per day = Flip the Trading Post

I flip the Trading Post and I make between 50-125g/day but it’s not easy and you’ll have to find your niche market because nobody is gonna tell you.

To get started flipping consist in ordering an item at low price and resell it for a profit.
Keep in mind that when you sell an item there is a 5% listing fee and 10% tax when you sell. So if you wanna make profit make sure that (selling price x 0.85 = more than you paid for the item).

Ex: I ordered and item for 50 coppers and people are selling it 1 silver
(1 × 0.85 = 85 coppers) so (85 copper – 50 = 35 coppers profit) it doesn’t look like a huge profit but when you buy 250 units of that item it gives you 87 silvers straight in your pockets.

Do not throw all your money into 1 item, diversification is the key!

You can find multiple tools online that for exemple scan the auction house and list items that are worth flipping because of the high profit, but the most important thing in flipping is to invest in items that will resell easily, don’t throw you money on a item that nobody needs.

Cheers and have fun getting rich.

Or more exact, likely throwing a lot of gold down the toilet since doing this kind of thing half-a***ed will cost you a lot of gold.

People willing or interested in TP flipping will pick it up naturally. Suggesting it to players who are already strugling to make ends meet is like offering a heroin addict a crackpipe at a discount so he can “get off the stuff”.

This is probably the dumbest thing I ever heard, maybe you tried flipping in the past but didn’t make it work because you simply don’t know how to do it but do not turn people off. The only thing you have to do is to read about it online and find what people are actually buying. Pretty simple imo + you can start with only a gold and make it work.

I have no problem with flipping or making gold.

You on the otherhand are not taking into consideration whom you are giving advice to.

If people were competent enough to flip for gold, they certainly would not be asking about how to make ends meet.

I stand by my statement, people interested in TP flipping will pick it up naturally. Suggesting it to casual or everyone is stupid.

beefjus.9347:

@OP- You really want a budget build? What if I told you that you could get FULL Viper armor and weapons without spending a single gold? All you need to do is complete the HoT PS for each toon, up until the “Bitter Harvest” quest to get a “Box of Viper Gear”. Do this nine times, and voila! You end up with 6 boxes for armor and 3 boxes for weapons! I’m currently working on my 8th character, so it’s only a matter of time before I filly kit out my Burnzerker (you still need to spend money on crafting your Sinister trinkets though).

Good recommendations, but not really part of the topic.

The title was chosen on the basis of the guild KING running budget builds.

Stil, the easy/cheap availability of viper gear boxes does help gear a condition damage character.

Nay, they should instead rework the availability of the more difficult adventures.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Do you think such an item would be harmful to other players trying to progress the map meta, or beneficial?

Yes it would, simply because now you get the potential for even more people not working towards the meta.

Don’t think people would be to happy with such an item getting added. Especially the ones who are struggling with adventures.

I have to disagree on this being similar to the coin. The coin just saved you some farming of continue coins, which essentially was no issue, or not a big issue to begin with. This would be completely different.

If you have decided on which stat combination you want to go for, this wiki page should help: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats

Also ascended equipment has its very own pages, all of which are linked to from here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_equipment

My recommendation would be as follows:

A.) find out what stat combination you want to go for first. Read up on your class, see what peopel recommend. Chances are you should go for berserkers first, but you can also go for soldiers. Reason being, you can later use the soldiers gear for wvw while it allows you to get used to the game (this mimics the natural progression the pve meta went after launch of the game. going soldiers is not ideal, but it might help).

Best in slot (for pve) is in general:
- full berserker for direct damage classes
- viper, sinister combination for condition damage classes (rabid and dire warrent a mention since they are cheaper alternatives and are sort of the soldier equivalent for condition builds)

B.) use the pvp area to try certain stat combinations out. changing stats here is free as is trying out different builds

C.) start working towards your goal equipment. exotic should not take you to long to complete, for ascended read up a bit and start your journey accordingly. Good start here is probably starting with fractals for the rings, do the living story season 2 achievements for sinister trinkets, find a guild to run guild missions with for guild tokens.

Unlocked, all.

Completed, all.

Playing currently? Herald and Chronomancer.

In the process of finishing the story on all the twinks (13 characters in total) but taking my time. Just getting the chak and auric weapons unlocked first with all of them.

So far I think most elite specs are fun. Some are deeper than others though and I certainly can’t judge anything not guardian, revenant, warrior or mesmer.

Shin.3701:

I already did some chest farm, but I still cannot get how I’m supposed to make gold if I need mats to craft.

You can’t.

The game is currently in a gold deflation. There are no huge direct gold rewards as dungeons used to be, yet materials are still spiking since a lot of players have huge gold reserves.

You can basically make use of this and make good gold by selling materials into an overvalued market, or spend gold on using those materials.

That being said, fractal dailies provide a nice income as well. Or farm fractal level 40, works too.

Vinceman.4572:

No offense but I think that Blood Red Arachnid is having some real severe health issues if not having some sort of autism. We are having a player with similar habits in the german forum. One discussion was going over 2 thread sites and stopped first after he admitted of being autistic.

Usually BRA has some valid points and is constructive in disscussions. Not sure what his deal is today.

Seems he is bored and feels like trolling a perfectly fine thread. I don’t really care for that any more though. Anyone interested in the video/reddit thread is able to get them from my OP.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

That doesn’t even account for Sinister trinkets (best in slot condition damage) which are all almost completely achievement bound or via bandit crests from farming 2-3 hours of SW. Again, not that big a deal.

Actually no. Sinister trinkets aren’t the best for condition damage. Vipers are. It is just that the only place to get Viper’s Trinkets is in raids.

Just going to reply to this since, once again, you are wrong.

Since Viper’s expertise caps condition duration at 100%, using viper’s trinkets are a waste. So no, viper’s is not best in slot. Sinister is. Just so people who actually came to this thread for information do not get missinformed.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just because something is doable in exotics doesn’t mean that Anet isn’t trying to get people to gear up. You can do high level fractals in the nude, too, but that doesn’t stop Agony Resistance from being an unyielding pressure to get you into ascended. I’m also not going to pretend that the consistent debate on the nature of raids and casuals that has permeated this game suddenly doesn’t exist.

Great, so take your bs into those other threads and stop derailing this one. Or did I just misunderstand you basically stating that “since everyone is talking about raids being for casuals, I’m going to blame every topic about raids for doing this?”.
Show me where this was at any point part of this debate.

Also your point on fractals being doable naked if off. That used to be the case but certainly is not with guaranteed agony damage ever since the fractured patch.

Um, no, that’s now how it works. When there is an ever-present topic about something, especially something controversial like raids, then every thread made about that topic is just a more specific line in the entire grand discussion. So yes, everything I’ve said is pertinent to this thread, especially when it has been in response to the small paragraph that I originally posted.

Likewise, your complaint here is that I am right about fractals, but not in the particular exact way that you would like. It is called nitpicking.

Okay, so you decide to bring in points to this topic which were never part of it just so you can complain and moan.

No, my comlpaint is that you are wrong about fractals. Fractals are literally not possible without agony resistance unless the group you are playing with keeps ressurecting you (meaning they are covering for you not having ar). The guarnateed 100% agony damage makes sure of that.

Not sure when the last time you did fractals was. Seems like 2 years ago.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

You’ve made up an intermediary step that wasn’t there. The real line is this: Recommended = Balanced Around. And it holds. Riddle me this: if the raids weren’t balanced around ascended gear, then why would the devs recommend it in the first place? Wouldn’t they say “don’t worry, you can stick to exotic gear?”.
Your end point is also nonsensical. You’re basically just saying that I will be right in the future, and therefore I’ve made a mistake somehow. I fail to see how that follows. And also, this contradicts your first point, because you are saying that yes, ascended will be required for raids, in spite of everything you’ve done to assert the contrary.

Yes, and we might see a level cap increase in the future, or the introduction of a new tier of gear, or the moon might fall onto the earth and end all life as we know it. Doesn’t matter we should worry about any of that now because, you know, it might not happen too.

Plans change, and even if arenanet sticks to their original plan, it’s not in game yet.
Also on why arenanet would encourage ascended: I don’t know, maybe to have people slowly gear up and prevent this current made up issue before it becomes an actual issue.

To simply assume this to be due to balance is assuming much.

The devs haven’t recommended buying higher level gear, so I wouldn’t worry about a level cap. Regardless, you’re using the uncertainty of the future to distract from the point that what you wrote is paradoxical.

You’re saying you don’t know why it is Anet recommends ascended. Maybe it is because, as the hardest content that has ever been released in the game, that ascended provides bonuses that are significant enough give success where there would’ve been failure? That maybe, as the content was designed to be “hardcore endgame content”, that the assumption would be that this end-game content would require end-game materials to beat it? Maybe it is because the gear of tier would be pertinent to the success of the raid in some way, shape, or form? Frankly, the idea of assuming it would have to deal with balance isn’t “much”. It is common sense.

Please use some of that common sense yourself when replying. I stated that you are using unknown future events in your arguments, now you call my train of thought a paradox. Also, no one expected ascended tier of gear until arenanet added it. Going by past experiences, it’s not far off to expect new tiers of gear.

The same goes for endgame. The current raid is not endgame or maximum endgame design. It’s leading up to endgame design clearly seen in the balance and gear one can use to complete it.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Yeah, sorry, having an opinion doesn’t make you superior. You are not the next best thing to a word of god. I have demonstrated, time and again, that what you are saying doesn’t make sense, and have provided countless counter-arguments. You are just so full of it that anything you don’t agree with or don’t believe doesn’t count in your own mind.

I do wonder exactly how your brain functions. You first consider yourself absolute authority, then say you are open to opinion and let people say whatever they want, then have a problem with people saying whatever they want because they don’t agree with your beliefs, and that nothing anyone says that disagrees with you can mean anything. There’s a term for this: doublethink

I consider myself above nothing no matter how many times you state this. Do the following, reread this thread or better yet, have someone who’s opinion you value read the thread and ask them: what do you think?

You strolling in here and smokbombing a thread with predjudices and preconceptions from other threads certainly is not a simple opinion. Also no matter how many faulty examples you give, none of them stick unless they make sense.

I see you, too, do not have access to the scroll wheel. I came into this thread and said two sentences along with a quote from the video. The only reason why this discussion exists is because people were not content with the fact that I said the video was of no comfort to the whole “ascended required” debate that rages on everywhere. Every. Single. Thing. I have said in this thread has been a response to people being utterly intolerant to me.

You hypocrites have provoked the beast yourselves. Your words are betrayed by your actions.

The video was ment to show people that there is no reason to fret and obsess over ascended gear. You’ve taken this idea and keep trying to pervert it. What the hell is wrong with you? Provoked the beast? You seem very obsessed with yourself.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

When I say things, I’m not even sure you understand them.

Wait, what was that about feeling superior and above others? O yeah right, it was me supposedly.

Actually, I’m fairly certain that Vinceman isn’t a native English speaker. The words are misspelled and written oddly, and it seems like every point I make goes over his head. I’ve typed out “the point is” so many times that I am considering making it a macro.

So him being a non-native speaker allows you to be condescneding towards him and a general a*** in this topic? Okay.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Likewise, you are being a hypocrite again. You accuse me of being deceptive, while deliberately omitting everything I have said about trinkets. I have to repeat that, out of trinkets, only rings were cheap. Everything else is not. Likewise, I calculated the ascended back item using the Quiver of Swift Flight, which costs 159.2 gold to make. Going by that cost, I underestimated it. Your original statement is omitting something very important: the most statistically significant difference in terms of performance in ascended gear is weapons. Not only because of the additional stats they provide, but because their modifier on weapon strength applies to everything, magnifying the bonuses of every other ascended item. I am not "deceptive’, I am more inclusive.

Also, the trinkets via alternative methods use specific stat sets. It only matters if you can use alternative means to acquire a useful trinket, not a useless one.

So you pick a more expensive backpiece to prove a point? Great, there goes your credibility. I thought we were talking about cheapest possible way.

Actually, I didn’t know that the other quiver existed. I picked the quiver of swift flight because it was listed under the “berserker” section on the wiki.

Is this your way of saying:“Sorry, I am not omniscent and stand corrected on this point.”

Apology accepted.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

Mentioning alternative stat combinations for trinkets too is not in favor of your “trinkets are not cheap” credo since most new stat combinations are based on achievements (if available at all). Again, not a major goldsink. Let’s keep throwing those smokebombs and confusing people.
If your “inclusion” of ascended weapons had been simply inclusive, you would have made a clear distinction of this instead of lumping it with the value of trinkets.

So you can buy berserker trinkets with achievements now? Regardless, I am lumping together weapons and trinkets because they are part of the package. In fact, weapons are far more significant than the trinkets are. So you are saying “at least coughpartchough of the ascended gear is cheap! heyyyyyy, don’t bring up the bigger, more important part. you’re lying! weapons don’t count!” when you moan about how I brought up weapons when dealing with the cost of ascended. You’re trying to catch me on a technicality, but to do so means that you are lying in the first place.

No, berserker trinkets are easily obtained via (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_trinket):
- rings – pristine fractal relics – 0 gold (takes about 1 week for both if you get unlucky and can only do low level dailies)
- accessoires – guild commendations +5 gold each – 10 gold total (takes a bit longer, about 3-4 weeks of running guild missions)
- amulet – 30 laurels (20 laurels and 250 wvw badges)- 0 gold
- backpiece – about 80-100g

So again, where is the big cost for trinkets? I don’t see it. Even if we go for alternative methods, the main factor is not gold but laurels which equate time (thus encouraging people to get the items via the primary method of aquisition).

That doesn’t even account for Sinister trinkets (best in slot condition damage) which are all almost completely achievement bound or via bandit crests from farming 2-3 hours of SW. Again, not that big a deal.

I’m not moaning about you bringing up weapons. I’m questioning how you added weapons in to strength a weak point. Yes, ascended weapons are expensive IF you build them (no where near as armor) and are literally the ONLY expensive item you currently need for a decent setup. That’s not even considering alternative methods of getting them which will occur over time if you play the appropriate parts of the game.

I’m done arguing with you. I thought the video was very infromative and could be of interest to people in general who are interested in raiding in this game. Obviously there always has to be some sob to come around and nitpick/spoil the fun just to feed his ego.

I can’t even begin to…

Okay, you stick with your shiny new MMO and enjoy that fresh MMO feel.

Let’s talk again once you’ve hit cap level in WoW, raided and geared up your character to the absolute maximum, then had it get wiped by the next expansion which is going to hit in about 1 year.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have provided quotations, links, mathematics, and logic, and I have explained multiple times in detail how your assertions are faulty. You are being a hypocrite here: You made this thread so people can make their own conclusions, then spew a superiority complex when someone makes a conclusion you don’t agree with.

None of these were made in this thread or in any thread you linked in this threads discussion.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Just because something is doable in exotics doesn’t mean that Anet isn’t trying to get people to gear up. You can do high level fractals in the nude, too, but that doesn’t stop Agony Resistance from being an unyielding pressure to get you into ascended. I’m also not going to pretend that the consistent debate on the nature of raids and casuals that has permeated this game suddenly doesn’t exist.

Great, so take your bs into those other threads and stop derailing this one. Or did I just misunderstand you basically stating that “since everyone is talking about raids being for casuals, I’m going to blame every topic about raids for doing this?”.
Show me where this was at any point part of this debate.

Also your point on fractals being doable naked if off. That used to be the case but certainly is not with guaranteed agony damage ever since the fractured patch.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

You’ve made up an intermediary step that wasn’t there. The real line is this: Recommended = Balanced Around. And it holds. Riddle me this: if the raids weren’t balanced around ascended gear, then why would the devs recommend it in the first place? Wouldn’t they say “don’t worry, you can stick to exotic gear?”.
Your end point is also nonsensical. You’re basically just saying that I will be right in the future, and therefore I’ve made a mistake somehow. I fail to see how that follows. And also, this contradicts your first point, because you are saying that yes, ascended will be required for raids, in spite of everything you’ve done to assert the contrary.

Yes, and we might see a level cap increase in the future, or the introduction of a new tier of gear, or the moon might fall onto the earth and end all life as we know it. Doesn’t matter we should worry about any of that now because, you know, it might not happen too.

Plans change, and even if arenanet sticks to their original plan, it’s not in game yet.
Also on why arenanet would encourage ascended: I don’t know, maybe to have people slowly gear up and prevent this current made up issue before it becomes an actual issue.

To simply assume this to be due to balance is assuming much.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Yeah, sorry, having an opinion doesn’t make you superior. You are not the next best thing to a word of god. I have demonstrated, time and again, that what you are saying doesn’t make sense, and have provided countless counter-arguments. You are just so full of it that anything you don’t agree with or don’t believe doesn’t count in your own mind.

I do wonder exactly how your brain functions. You first consider yourself absolute authority, then say you are open to opinion and let people say whatever they want, then have a problem with people saying whatever they want because they don’t agree with your beliefs, and that nothing anyone says that disagrees with you can mean anything. There’s a term for this: doublethink

I consider myself above nothing no matter how many times you state this. Do the following, reread this thread or better yet, have someone who’s opinion you value read the thread and ask them: what do you think?

You strolling in here and smokbombing a thread with predjudices and preconceptions from other threads certainly is not a simple opinion. Also no matter how many faulty examples you give, none of them stick unless they make sense.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

When I say things, I’m not even sure you understand them.

Wait, what was that about feeling superior and above others? O yeah right, it was me supposedly.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Likewise, you are being a hypocrite again. You accuse me of being deceptive, while deliberately omitting everything I have said about trinkets. I have to repeat that, out of trinkets, only rings were cheap. Everything else is not. Likewise, I calculated the ascended back item using the Quiver of Swift Flight, which costs 159.2 gold to make. Going by that cost, I underestimated it. Your original statement is omitting something very important: the most statistically significant difference in terms of performance in ascended gear is weapons. Not only because of the additional stats they provide, but because their modifier on weapon strength applies to everything, magnifying the bonuses of every other ascended item. I am not "deceptive’, I am more inclusive.

Also, the trinkets via alternative methods use specific stat sets. It only matters if you can use alternative means to acquire a useful trinket, not a useless one.

So you pick a more expensive backpiece to prove a point? Great, there goes your credibility. I thought we were talking about cheapest possible way.

Mentioning alternative stat combinations for trinkets too is not in favor of your “trinkets are not cheap” credo since most new stat combinations are based on achievements (if available at all). Again, not a major goldsink. Let’s keep throwing those smokebombs and confusing people.
If your “inclusion” of ascended weapons had been simply inclusive, you would have made a clear distinction of this instead of lumping it with the value of trinkets.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Vinceman.4572:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

There isn’t some magic force that will guide you to an optimized DPS rotation and a perfect build for the encounter. You can’t even measure your DPS.

You can measure your DPS. PvP-Golem anyone + Dmg-numbers in the chat panel?

Now this is hilarious. Your damage numbers aren’t your DPS. That’s just how big a number you can get. Your DPS is your damage divided by time, which is a unit that isn’t provided in this game. I’ve taught enough people physics to know that “rate” is a concept not everyone understands easily. Hell, you yourself just got it wrong.

Maybe use a damage meter? Might help…. oh and those available use the chat panel currently. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Cyninja.2954:

It always amazes me how people try to spin and argue things into their favor no matter what is shown

You are utterly full of it. Your beliefs on this subject are not automatically correct and superior just because you hold them. What proof do you have that you aren’t the deluded one, spinning things into his own favor no matter what they are shown? And here you stand, talking down to people who disagree with you. It is insulting, and you should feel bad.

The biggest problem I have here is that I have not been given one piece of information that isn’t internally contradictory or utter nonsense. It is like this in every single thread I’ve heard. Why can’t you people just admit that, as the devs intended, raids are not casual in any sense? No, you always have to go on with hate speech about anyone who can’t do the raids because they’re stupid or something.

I’m not full of anything. I provided a link, everyone can watch the video and read the thread and make their own conclusions. You have provided 0 material on this subject except for your subjective view.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

. Why can’t you people just admit that, as the devs intended, raids are not casual in any sense? No, you always have to go on with hate speech about anyone who can’t do the raids because they’re stupid or something.

No one said raids are casual friendly. Wth are you talking about? This entire thread is about players and for players who are interested in raiding. The fact that raid content is not casual friendly AND difficult is a GIVEN.

The only question was and always has been, is it doable in exotics or are arenanet forcing people to gear up.

Oh and on the hate speach part, I’m not going to comment your aggressive post. People reading this thread get to make their own judgments.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is not true at all. The devs recommended having full ascended for the raids, ergo the raids were balanced around full ascended.

Recommended =/= required =/= balanced around.

Also we are not at the endboss of the raid which essentially is where ascended will supposedly be required. Stop making stuff up.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

This is nonsense. “Well designed” is a quality judgement. It can’t be a fact, because “well” is strictly an opinion. As is “very”. If I say they are not well designed, how do you prove me wrong, or prove yourself right?

Correct, and my quality judgement is based on the given material to be viewed. The only way to prove this to be or not be the case would require a look at the exact numbers used in the code. Since we have no access to those and I don’t expect arenanet to give us access, I’m using the next best thing. You have not provided anything resembling a counter argument even to this subjective opinion in form of player data.

I’d get into all the nitpicking seperately, but to be honest I simply don’t care what you think. You mix my statements with other facts in order to delude and twist their meaning (see my comment on trinkets. I never mentioned weapons to be cheap, yet you use them as a counter argument).

Trinkets are easy to come by IF you use the appropriate content (yes, they are more expensive if you revert to backup content. this has been pointed out multiple times).

Also last time I checked, even the backpack number you gave is way off (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quiver_of_a_Thousand_Arrows) at current market price comes out at about 90g (way less than 150g, and evene cheaper with buy orders. that’s not even considering the cheapest alternative which is via the intended way of crafting a fractal backpiece). Hyberbole much?

It always amazes me how people try to spin and argue things into their favor no matter what is shown.

The reason for posting this video (which some people didn’t even watch, or watched maybe 2 minutes of) was to put an end to people arguing that ascended is mandatory (from a pure balance perspective) and to show what a great job arenanet has done at balancing their first raid content.

Let’s look at the fact first before deconstructing into rambling and theorycrafting:

- the raid is doable and balanced around being completed in full exotic – FACT
→ the damage is managable (no 1-hit kills mechanics except for the ones that are ment to be)

- the raid timers are very well designed for a group of full exotic – FACT
→ does no one even appreciate the fine tuning that the dps check (Goreseval) was so perfect that there were about 8-10 seconds left on the timer? Both other bosses had 1-2 minutes left

- no expoits or use of massive damage combos are required to beat the bosses. Bursting down Goreseval with 6 condi berserkers is not required to finish the fight. It’s just an alternative that makes it easier.

- obviously, if groups with full ascended are wiping for over x-amount of attempts without progress, it’s a matter of player skill (or lack theirof). Now we know for a fact that this is the case.

With all this being said:

- yes, the skillcap is high for running in exotic. No one said you get to run in with the bare minimum requirement and get a freeride. Important is, that it is possible
- yes, ascended will allow for more mistakes and leeway as far as damage goes. we knew this beforhand simply because of how far good groups could push the endtimer limit. Now we have more precise numbers
- remember, getting part ascended (trinkets first, weapons second, armor last) will cover a HUGE amount of the stat spread between full ascended and exotic. This being said, getting full ascended trinkets is VERY cheap. We can deduce that ascended armor, with the current state of the market, might be a bad investment for raiding.

and finally the most important aspect:

- skill is more important than gear!

Wasn’t this the major aspect people were fretting over? Sure, to maximise your chances of success you’ll want players with ascended gear (that’s simple math). But in the end, the player behind the keyboard decides how successful the raid will be.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

“I will not, in general, recommend anyone doing the raid in exotic gear as a group going in on their first run, regardless of what I’m about to show you, as even we were surprised by the tuning of some of the enrage timers”.

Your interpretation of what Deroir said is very faulty. The reason for him stating this was due to so many factors which are subjective and not part of the game that to bring it up in this context is missleading. Ofcorse he will recommend players run with ideal gear to begin with due to:

- faster success and better tries to keep motivation up. If you are already struggling on Vale Guardian, it’s very likely you are not a seasoned raider with a seasoned raiding party. Perfecting your play and mechanics is always easier when you have room for msitakes.

- Natural skillcap of players. Unfortunately a reality, not everyone will be able to reach the ideal/perfect skillcap required for the encounters. Having better gear means this person doesn’t have to be cut from the raid and/or replaced

- he is being honest to the viewer in that they have mastered the encounters with perfect setups and gear and tells us that, if given the choice, he would recommend players to go for that. It’s simply not mandatory

- the fights (except for the first one) were pretty spot on with some very minor msitakes here and there. After the VG kill Deroir even states that they were goofing around in the beginning, but decided not to wipe and restart since they had confidence they could finish the fight. He even mentions that the same fight 1 day earlier in full exotic left them with 1.5 minutes on the timer. Again, a lot of room for mistakes from less experienced groups.

Just thought I’d link and leave this here since I know not everyone frequents reddit.

The premise is simple:

The guild [KING] went on a challenge to clear the current raid wing with following rules and limitations:

- full exotic gear on every member (no new stat combinations allowed. so no viper, zealots, etc.)
- dungeon token gear allowed
- budget runes and sigils
- absolute price limit of 100g per person per gearset
- no cheese tactics
- no transmutation of any gear (I guess this is just as a fun aside).

I’ll leave the reddit link and the direct link to the youtube video of their run (which can be found in the reddit discussion as well).

reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3wicqj/is_budget_raiding_possible_exotic_vs_ascended/

youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DFPFQCc47Q

For anyone interested in rading in GW2 it’s a good watch.

Enjoy.

Supply and demand.

Obviously reclaimed weapons are in shorter supply than demand, otherwise the 13-15g (were up to 15-18g) for a rare item drop wouldn’t be.

Not sure there are any rare reclaimed armor drops per se. I know caches in Tangled Depths can reward reclaimed weapons, but don’t expect to be getting more than 1 per day (if at all).

Your best bet is to either wait until prices fall further due to demand decreasing, or keep farming until you get lucky.

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DeWolfe.2174:

Flipping should have been treated like any other form of farming in game. Now, I don’t mind farming at all. I just don’t like that all but this one form of farming has been removed.

This seems like hyperbole rather than truth. Name one farm that was removed where players were not being rude and belligerent to other players in chat, and where there was no outright exploit. If you cannot, and I don’t believe you can, then there are other, obvious reasons for farm removal. Tbh, in-game farmers are their own worst enemies.

Dungeons.

Yeah, dungeons had no exploits. riiiiight.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

CETheLucid.3964:

Essence Snow.3194:

Capitalism is not the best system we’ve ever created. The best system we’ve had in modern society is a mixture.

… Based more on a free market capitalist system than anything else. The dogma in this thread as a whole is astounding.

“I came from an ex-communist country man, let me tell you: It sucked. Capitialism is the better system.”

“I’m from a capitalist country and the old system that you suffered under was better because I am right and you are wrong! I clearly know what I am talking about!”

Gotta love that kind of response. It’s that kind of crap you can’t make up.

“Oh? Someone who’s experienced the reality of my misguided ideals and is speaking out against it? Better dismiss them and assure everyone I’m right.”

“After all, that dictator guy was just doing it wrong.”

I hear it’s been called the ideal dilemma before. Essentially, they are comparing practical capitalism to ideal socialism. The unfair advantage being that they completely ignore the negative aspects of human nature when dealing with socialism, but focus heavily on it in capitalism. If you want to talk ideals, then you might as well trumpet anarchy. They take shelter into the fact that real socialism hasn’t been done yet. How do you know it wasn’t real? Well, it didn’t work of course!

This.

Also I find it disgusting how certain individuals think their theories can stand up to real-life experience.

It takes are very special kind of arrogance to go around telling others they are wrong about their life experiences based on 3rd grade theories of “I know better”.

This comes from someone whos family got persecuted and who’s Uncle got shot at an eastern european border trying to flee an oh so great communist system. I’d never dare tell any one who had lived through that timeperiod “they are wrong” or they just “didn’t understand”.

But that is one of the great things of open societies with free speach. Everyone gets to have an opinion, no matter how kittened.

Casmurro.9046:

So 1800 toughness is too much for druid? Because i geared my druid with clerics armor, rings and amulet and got 1800 toughness from that too. So i should equip magi armor instead?

Keep the clerics gear for Goreseval (2nd boss), but yes, Vale Guardian you don’t want toughness unless you are the tank.

Some comps have the druid tank Gore while the rest of the group runs maximum damage.

Wazzouf.2748:

If you wanna make only a few golds per day= Farm
If you wanna make a huge amount of gold per day = Flip the Trading Post

I flip the Trading Post and I make between 50-125g/day but it’s not easy and you’ll have to find your niche market because nobody is gonna tell you.

To get started flipping consist in ordering an item at low price and resell it for a profit.
Keep in mind that when you sell an item there is a 5% listing fee and 10% tax when you sell. So if you wanna make profit make sure that (selling price x 0.85 = more than you paid for the item).

Ex: I ordered and item for 50 coppers and people are selling it 1 silver
(1 × 0.85 = 85 coppers) so (85 copper – 50 = 35 coppers profit) it doesn’t look like a huge profit but when you buy 250 units of that item it gives you 87 silvers straight in your pockets.

Do not throw all your money into 1 item, diversification is the key!

You can find multiple tools online that for exemple scan the auction house and list items that are worth flipping because of the high profit, but the most important thing in flipping is to invest in items that will resell easily, don’t throw you money on a item that nobody needs.

Cheers and have fun getting rich.

Or more exact, likely throwing a lot of gold down the toilet since doing this kind of thing half-a***ed will cost you a lot of gold.

People willing or interested in TP flipping will pick it up naturally. Suggesting it to players who are already strugling to make ends meet is like offering a heroin addict a crackpipe at a discount so he can “get off the stuff”.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Don’t forget that you get 9 from salvaging Upper Bound and 5 from salvaging Finite Result. You need 14 total, and salvaging those two along the way gives you 13, so you really only need to salvage 1 ascended weapon/armor to pull it off.

You need 2 Balls of Dark Energy to finish step 1 and craft the first backpiece. But essentially, yes.

You don’t want to infuse Finite Result and Upper Bound. You have to salvage those 2 to make Unbound. Making spare ones is more expensive than making a normal ascended backpiece and put the skin on it.

http://dulfy.net/2015/11/08/gw2-hot-weapons-armor-and-backpieces-guide/#Legendary_Backpiece

Step 1:
- Aetherblade Recruitment Form – 1 Ball
- 1 Cube of Stabilized Dark Energy (1 Ball of Dark Energy, 75 Stabilizing Matrix)

Step 2:
- Aetherblade Handbook – 2 Balls
- 1 Spirit of the Finite Result (from salvaging Finite Result) – (-5) Balls since salvaging the Backpiece from step one guarantees 5 Balls of Darnk Energy and has to get salvaged either way
- 2 Cube of Stabilized Dark Energy (2 Ball of Dark Energy, 150 Stabilizing Matrix) – 2 Balls

Step 3:
- Aetherblade Secret Handshake Tutorial Book – 3 Balls
- 1 Spirit of Upper Bound (from salvaging Upper Bound) – (-9) Balls since salvaging the Backpiece from step two guarantees 9 Balls of Dark Energy and has to get salvaged either way
- 5 Pristine Mist Essences – 5 balls

Finaly, the salvage rate you are refering to is only for rings. Armors and Weapons guaranteed almost 1 Ball per salvage. Even without the +14 Balls of Dark Energy you get, you’d still only need 14 total. Not sure where you got 33 from.

Nightshade.5924:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Again, it does depend on the traits, skill, and equipment used by the mesmer. Those in the know can be devastating in a PvP. The rest? They make great free points for me.

Godmoney.2048:

Nightshade.5924:

Cyninja.2954:

Nightshade.5924:

First, if anyone cares, I posted something on this topic about a year ago. I was at the time QUITE fed up w/ getting trashed by mesmers. Many people derided and defamed my viewpoint. See here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stealth-Classes-OP-in-PvP/first#post4615485
BUT Now, all those detractors will HAVE to eat crow.

You can’t be serious.
You are aware that a few minor things have changed in the last year right?
Not only that, you even got the class wrong (which should have been an indication of things having changed).
Bunker chronomancers are OP, not mesmers. But hey, who pays attention to details.

Congratulations, it took over 1 year and massive changes to the game for a point of yours to become valid. More power to you.

Links to said same? Or again, links to champ matches three, six, and nine months ago that of course would SHOW us that Mesmers aren’t being used? Those sort of details?
Did you WATCH the twitch link, where typically ONLY one Mesmer on a team was running chronomancer? What WAS that other Mesmer doing, I

If anything has changed in the last year, it is that Mesmers HAVE BECOME MORE POWERFUL, NOT LESS. Feel free to PROVE otherwise.

Cheers

The fact that you know nothing of the meta from a year ago speaks volumes. Mesmer for the last 1.5 years has been lacking. Everyone knows that. Until the specialty patch mesmer was one of the weaker classes in the game.
If anything mesmer has been towards teh bottom of the pile for the majority of the games life at least in competitive play.

Andraus.3874:

@NIGHTSHADE. I don’t need to prove I’m correct. You need to prove You are correct and I’m incorrect. You are the one making the accusation not me. So Again. Saying Mesmer is OP based on match wins and composition comparison is completly wrong.

Your problem is only your opinion is right. You are therefore too blind to see the truth. You are unable to step back and evaluate the situation or consider other possibilities because your judgment is clouded by being over emotional. And this goes all the way back to last year. It’s pretty much impossible to inspire someone through a forum post to be rational when they are set on being irrational.

I AM glad to see that this time SOME people are willing to admit just how nasty mesmers are. Then of course, there are the rest.

The ones that deride, subtly insult, insinuate. Mind you, they never offer a SHRED of countervailing proof. Not them. These sorts lack the Honesty, Integrity, and Courage to own up to the fact that THEY could be wrong. I now offer something that I have asked said detractors for TWICE. It wasn’t hard to find. Funny that.

Now, I’m sure that certain people will be quick to point out that the LOSING team in the matchup that goes w/ the link I’m about to post has a Mesmer, and the Winners Don’t. But I remind ALL and sundry… First, that team came in second place. SECOND, and more importantly, to get to this Particular matchup that team, WITH a MESMER, had to play elimination Matches over MONTHS to end up at this particular match.

So HERE’s the PROOF that Mesmers were combat lethal and HAVE been for some time. Proof that Oddly, all of people in the first thread AND in this thread chose NOT to acknowledge or even consider, since that would of course force them to change THEIR “opinions”.

Without further ado, I give you the TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN WORLD CUP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1xGvbYnmbo

Where HAVE I heard the name of the winning team? I swear I’ve seen it somewhere before in regards to beating a team w/ a Mesmer or two…

Cheers

Oh no, one of the teams had 1 mesmer in their comp, which was built specifically around having that 1 mesmer. Nerf nerf nerf.

Serisouly, do you even read what you write?

The one thing every single respons in this thread agrees to is: You are making yourself look not very smart, to not use more drastic words. Take a chillpill and stay away from the forums for a while.

Your making life for people with valid complaints about chronomancers harder right now by being on the side screeming nerfs.

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

kult.3465:

Cyninja.2954:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

ZoSo.4867:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

7) They’ll run around in full knight gear with all defensive specializations because “HoT is hard”.

Wait a sec, what is so bad about using knight gear?

Probably that it’s not Berserker or Assassin, because apparently, that’s the only way to play the game, didn’t you know?

I use Knight’s on my Ele, actually. HoT isn’t hard, but Ele is way too squishy for me to be comfortable in Berserker gear with it.

? What a **** comment.

Maybe because Knights is absolutely not needed in HoT (go celestial on Ele), especially when the main limiting factor is damage.

You can run Knights on any content where you want to spend more time than necessary or you lack the player skill for useful gear. Timegated content is a different story. Learn to play or at least use something that resembles damage gear. As is, there is NO content in game that requires Knights (aside from some WvW bunker builds). Even raid tanks only take as mich toughness as absolutely necessary to hold agro (400-500 over 1,000 base usually for a total of about 1,500).

It’s not the players fault that arenanet balanced the events around everyone running maximum damage. I don’t even want to imagine an entire group running full knights on TD scar lane. Have fun never succeeding. Wearing knights on this map is effectively leeching off of other players contribution.

False, difficulty is a subjective matter. HoT is a difficult to me. It’s the people in paper towel gear that I rez all the time while I wear my Knights gear.

Agreed, I’ve been in several SUCCESSFUL TD where the majority people are using whatever they see fit.

And you wound know this how? By asking everyone nicely?

The popular opinion of TD being the hardest new meta map and current requirements for 100% success beg to differ.

And you would know the opposite, how?

?

What’s the primary topic of this thread you are posting in?

Are you even serious?

Nice strawman argument, was talking about your post about their being only one way to beat TD meta. If you don’t want to answer how you know this, that’s fine.

There is only 1 way to beat the TD meta, and it requires an absurd amount of group damage.

You still ahven’t answered how this would be possible with everyone running waht ever they like.

My argument is supported by the close nature of the event, and the very specific demand for as much damage as possible consumables in organised maps.

Your argument is supported by:“You said so.” Not a very strong foot to stand on.

Your argument is supported by: “You said so.” which isn’t relevant at all.
My argument is supported by people stating what they did not have and not even having food buffs. We were able to do TD King of the Jungle just fine because we were organized. We had to do 3 phases of DPS on the Chak Geruent instead of 2 but it turned out just fine. Your DPS optimal experience is not universal to all of King of the Jungle wins.

The fact is this:

- TD requires a lot of damage (especially SCAR and Nuhoch lane)

I’m done arguing in circles with such stupidity.

That’s about the only fact you stated that was valid about it requiring a lot a damage. Notice you did not say optimal damage nor that there is a need for optimal damage. Lastly, resorting to insults what is this Youtube comments? Extremely childish, people resort to insults when they have nothing better to say and admit defeat in a conversation. You can keep trying to spread false information but facts will continue to defeat you every time.

Right, because achieving near peak damage is done without running optimal damage setups. Okay what ever.

You want to give people bad advice as to gear up? Fine. Eventually once players grow more experienced they will notice that all that gold/ressources/runes/sigil they wasted on getting their knights, clerics or nomads gear which essentially is useless, could have gone towards getting their ascended.

I feel bad for the groups that have to pick up your slack, but hey, as long as you find enough people to cover for your lack of damage, more power to you.

Meanwhile in reality land, I’ll try not to be a burden on my fellow players.

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

All gear is viable.

No, it’s not. You’ve failed to provide evidence to this being the case.

My Revenant headband says otherwise.

Your revenant headband just says that you’ve completed the meta. So does mine. Your point is?

Now how many players had to cover for your lack of damage?

Ferhat Rock.9431:

Cyninja.2954:

Ferhat Rock.9431:

Hello,

Ive been playin for 2 years , i’ve never had more than 200 gold.
I want to get a elgendary but I honestly dont know how to make gold, so I was wondering if any fellow players got any decent methods to make me some gold.

Your queston should be:“How do I stop myself from spending gold.”

That seems to be more your problem.

Otherwise just play the game. If you do have an more expensive playstyle you might try some of the following though:

- farm Silverwastes, Dry Top, Auric Basin or t2-5 materials
- use sell orders instead of instant selling
- do fractal dailies
- play pvp and use reward tracks that give decent rewards

But again, it’s not your gold gain you’ll want to work on. Make sure you stop spending gold in the first place.

I will try to lessen my spending, but I dont have much gold to spend anyway.

I’ve had the same issues in the past.

Then once you notice you don’t HAVE to spend gold on every single shiny or flavor of the day item, boom, gold starts piling up.

Also make sure to set appropriate longterm goals. Getting that Precursor collection done in 3 days is tempting, but spreading it out over 3 months is way more enjoyable. That being said, if you have the appropriate crafters, craft daily ascended materials and sell them (remember, right after reset prices usually drop since people make and sell them. 3-4 hours before reset they usual are at their peak price).

Finally, make a profile at gw2efficiency and check your bank/material storage. See if there is any high value items you can sell. Everytime I clear house every 1-2 weeks, I usually pull an easy 80-120g just from collected materials.

Ferhat Rock.9431:

Hello,

Ive been playin for 2 years , i’ve never had more than 200 gold.
I want to get a elgendary but I honestly dont know how to make gold, so I was wondering if any fellow players got any decent methods to make me some gold.

Your queston should be:“How do I stop myself from spending gold.”

That seems to be more your problem.

Otherwise just play the game. If you do have an more expensive playstyle you might try some of the following though:

- farm Silverwastes, Dry Top, Auric Basin or t2-5 materials
- use sell orders instead of instant selling
- do fractal dailies
- play pvp and use reward tracks that give decent rewards

But again, it’s not your gold gain you’ll want to work on. Make sure you stop spending gold in the first place.

Nightshade.5924:

First, if anyone cares, I posted something on this topic about a year ago. I was at the time QUITE fed up w/ getting trashed by mesmers. Many people derided and defamed my viewpoint. See here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stealth-Classes-OP-in-PvP/first#post4615485

BUT Now, all those detractors will HAVE to eat crow.

You can’t be serious.

You are aware that a few minor things have changed in the last year right?

Not only that, you even got the class wrong (which should have been an indication of things having changed).

Bunker chronomancers are OP, not mesmers. But hey, who pays attention to details.

Congratulations, it took over 1 year and massive changes to the game for a point of yours to become valid. More power to you.

To answer the question: probably not everybody.

You said yourself it was 1 person. That leaves 9 others, you included, who were just fine. Maybe you should have gotten rid of him earlier isntead of taking the abuse.

Bllade.1029:

The real problem with the player base in this game, is that they’re not used to wiping on content for hours or having to work at difficult content. For the most part this game is easy, everything is just about handed to us on a nice gold diamond encrusted platter.

This is unfortunately very true.

On topic, and not wanting to nitpick, but 1,800 toughness is a lot. You should be running base toughness as much as possible. The problem is simple, the agro mechanic of the first boss is based straight on highest toughness. If you run 1,800 toughness, your tank needs to run 2,000. You both do less damage than you could.

As mentioned, usually tanks run 1,400-1,600 toughness (often full zerker with some knights trinkets to get the toughness needed). You are well advised to be below that value with about 200-300 toughness.

It also amazes me how all the praise for arenanet finally letting us “play the way we want” has disapeared. I remember page long posts of people here laughing at zerkers being required and praising the implementation of tanking thinking they could finally run their Soldier, Knights, Clerics or whatever gear in content.

Where are we now?

- unless you are tanking, you better have full damage gear of appropriate type (yes, zerkers won’t do any more. better have that condi gear ready too if your class demands it)
- the selection process has become even steeper
- the cutthroat attittude has become worse due to harder content

Now some players, myself included had warned about this happening. We got blamed that all we wanted was to stick to our “zerker meta” (which in hindsight was never as enforcing as the current situation is).

So here is my recommendation once again:

- play with friends and guildies (this is a big one)
- try to be informed and properly geared (not talking full ascended. but exotic armor and ascended trinkets is a good start. ascended weapons help too)
- have the appropriate buff food, and don’t be cheap. having second grade food is okay for tries, but make sure you bring the grade 1 stuff for serious tries
- don’t take abuse. leave if things turn sour
- do plan to invest 1-2 hours. nothing is more frustrating than having people leave after 2 failed attempts

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Cyninja.2954:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

All gear is viable.

No, it’s not. You’ve failed to provide evidence to this being the case.

Try doing the raids in full knights. Not viable there.

The disscussion here has been about TD, where the vast damage decrease makes it not vaible here too.

This is not a matter of:" Do I want this to be the case." But more a matter of:“Mathematically not viable.”

Deal with it.

Right, right. I’m sorry, I forgot, Gear = Skill. Because dead zerkers do LOTS of damage.

Oh wait…

Good zerkers don’t die.

Bad dead zerkers waypoint, the event scales down, they run back, the event scales back up and keep doing damage.

Toughness players might die less, even though we already discussed that toughness is marginal at best, and keep the event scaled up while providing less damage.

Do you event know how mechanics in this game work?

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

All gear is viable.

No, it’s not. You’ve failed to provide evidence to this being the case.

Try doing the raids in full knights. Not viable there.

The disscussion here has been about TD, where the vast damage decrease makes it not vaible here too.

This is not a matter of:" Do I want this to be the case." But more a matter of:“Mathematically not viable.”

Deal with it.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Now if you and Cyninja could just run along, there are other people here with opinions that actually matter. And by that I mean people not being complete kittens. K, bye!

Funny, and here i was thinking we were talking about how to succeed at a certain event.

Is it my fault the vent is designed the way it is? No.

I’m giving pointers and correcting missconceptions as to what is and isn’t viable as far as gearing goes.

But sure, go back to your “play the way you want” retour. Just don’t be one of the people posting in other threads about content being to hard or requiring getting nerfed.

Vinceman.4572:

Cyninja.2954:

You ofcorse have factored in the material supply provided via SW and CS to the Trading Post and the gold that flows out of the game along with that right? The gold on taxation of selling those materials.

You are not able to read: I don’t talk about materials to trade on the TP. They are not responsible for the inflation, I mentioned that.
I am speaking about opening bags and getting DIRECT COINS + the lump of raw ambrite which is DIRECT GOLD WITHOUT ANY SINK. The materials come on top but they play no role due to TP selling.
You got it now?
These rewards are so high due to the fact that thousands of players playing SW compared to a minority of dungeon runners.

Yes, the incentives were good if u were able to faceroll them. As a frequent dungeon tour player but also pugging player, the difference between faceroll and Pug-faceroll were huge! Still the amount of dungeon gold wasn’t as high as Anet wants to tell us.

Period.

Cyninja.2954:

All signs of deflation.

Nope, and you know it or you are writing bs. You are wrong.

Cyninja.2954:

Sure, since you do not believe in inflation

Where did I wrote this? I only wrote: Dungeons weren’t responsible for inflation as Anet wants to tell us. Prices were stable as hell and now they are not.

End of discussion for me.

I am able to read:

SW and CS provide:
- direct gold rewards (in form of event rewards and vendor rewards for selling things to NPC vendors)
- massive amounts of materials (which get sold on the TP and increase the avaialable supply)

Dungeons provided:
- direct gold rewards
- very little amounts of materials

See the difference? Please try to follow.

Vinceman.4572:

The materials come on top but they play no role due to TP selling.

Right, except for the 15% fee which removes gold from the economy. But who cares about that. Again, try to look at the big picture.

I’d even go as far that. since the materials made up a big chunk of the gold earned via SW/CS, it’s not that far to estiate that the trading post fees reduce the total ingame gold almost as much as the direct gold loot increases it.

If we assume 1/4 of the reward is direct gold, and 3/4 are loot, the gold removed from the game would equal about 11.25 silver removed for every 25 silver injected.

Nausicca.6038:

Cyninja.2954:

If you want to misslead people into believing that they can slack off, fine. I’m done arguing in circles with such stupidity.

But you know, most adults are playing video games to slack off and relax after a hard working day. They don’t give a rat about your l33t skills.

If you want to prove yourself, you know, you could still participate in pvp leagues instead of insulting players here.

And we can disscuss reducing the difficulty of the event. But as it stands right now, the event is challenging enough.

Vinceman.4572:

I have never meant anything else than direct gold rewards. Run SW and count every single copper you get directly out of the bags + the lump of raw ambrite everybody is selling on the vendor after salvaging. Same with Cursed Shore bags although the direct copper/silver loot isn’t that high.
Then keep in mind, that many more ppl are and were doing this “Press-1-content” than dungeon runners because Anet has always confirmed that the dungeon com belong to a minority of the game. The sum of direct gold is therefore much higher than the dungeon gold which was also reduced on a daily basis.

I was expecting these answers and was so hoping you would not use them.

Not because they are valid, but because they show you too haven’t put more thought into more than what happens to your wallet…

So, you bring SW and Cursed Shoreas an examples, mind you just about the only ones that might come close. You ofcorse have factored in the material supply provided via SW and CS to the Trading Post and the gold that flows out of the game along with that right? The gold on taxation of selling those materials.

What about the effect the supply has on prices themselves? More supply, lower prices.

See, dungeons were straight up gold with minimal materials. The ralationship was no where near what SW or CS bring to the game economy. Next example please.

Vinceman.4572:

And: referring to the actual trend, inflation is still growing. We only have a reduction in prices of T6-Mats when many many many other items are more expensive than ever. Ask the poor players who are trying to craft asc armor. ^^

Yes, because supply and demand too factor in with prices. Read further up what I said about “you don’t want the current demand price increase get further spiked by more direct gold rewards”. We have a price spike on highg demand items which are most notably requirements for ascended and legendary gear. Maybe take a peak at the rest of the trading post and see what has happened there. Or take a look at the gem-gold exchange rates. All signs of deflation.

Vinceman.4572:

The last argument is driven by the fact that they could have changed item rewards in dungeons like you also mentioned but they didn’t. They fricking didn’t! Even take a closer look on the XP when finishing a dungeon. The whole thing smells like dog’s breath.

And i’ve agreed that rewards should get increased, only not via direct gold. For the 5th or 6th time in this thread.

Vinceman.4572:

I’m not against direct gold rewards because it has shown that everything was accessible and nobody got behind in acquiring enough gold nor was inflation a big problem. The whole statement in that case was and still is a big joke.

Sure, since you do not believe in inflation or the effect higher gold supply has on prices. I too would be in favor of easy straight into my pocket gold rewards. Unfortunately I don’t think in this case I’d have much fun with them when all the prices adjust accordingly.

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

kult.3465:

Cyninja.2954:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

ZoSo.4867:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

7) They’ll run around in full knight gear with all defensive specializations because “HoT is hard”.

Wait a sec, what is so bad about using knight gear?

Probably that it’s not Berserker or Assassin, because apparently, that’s the only way to play the game, didn’t you know?

I use Knight’s on my Ele, actually. HoT isn’t hard, but Ele is way too squishy for me to be comfortable in Berserker gear with it.

? What a **** comment.

Maybe because Knights is absolutely not needed in HoT (go celestial on Ele), especially when the main limiting factor is damage.

You can run Knights on any content where you want to spend more time than necessary or you lack the player skill for useful gear. Timegated content is a different story. Learn to play or at least use something that resembles damage gear. As is, there is NO content in game that requires Knights (aside from some WvW bunker builds). Even raid tanks only take as mich toughness as absolutely necessary to hold agro (400-500 over 1,000 base usually for a total of about 1,500).

It’s not the players fault that arenanet balanced the events around everyone running maximum damage. I don’t even want to imagine an entire group running full knights on TD scar lane. Have fun never succeeding. Wearing knights on this map is effectively leeching off of other players contribution.

False, difficulty is a subjective matter. HoT is a difficult to me. It’s the people in paper towel gear that I rez all the time while I wear my Knights gear.

Agreed, I’ve been in several SUCCESSFUL TD where the majority people are using whatever they see fit.

And you wound know this how? By asking everyone nicely?

The popular opinion of TD being the hardest new meta map and current requirements for 100% success beg to differ.

And you would know the opposite, how?

?

What’s the primary topic of this thread you are posting in?

Are you even serious?

Nice strawman argument, was talking about your post about their being only one way to beat TD meta. If you don’t want to answer how you know this, that’s fine.

There is only 1 way to beat the TD meta, and it requires an absurd amount of group damage.

You still ahven’t answered how this would be possible with everyone running waht ever they like.

My argument is supported by the close nature of the event, and the very specific demand for as much damage as possible consumables in organised maps.

Your argument is supported by:“You said so.” Not a very strong foot to stand on.

Your argument is supported by: “You said so.” which isn’t relevant at all.
My argument is supported by people stating what they did not have and not even having food buffs. We were able to do TD King of the Jungle just fine because we were organized. We had to do 3 phases of DPS on the Chak Geruent instead of 2 but it turned out just fine. Your DPS optimal experience is not universal to all of King of the Jungle wins.

We are exchanging arguments in a thread where the predominant belief is that TD is the hardest meta out there (besides TT).

Multiple comments have dealt with how SCAR lane or Nuhoch lane keep failing with low % or no chance at all.

Yes, I’m the one deluded.

The fact is this:

- TD requires a lot of damage (especially SCAR and Nuhoch lane)
- you can’t know what every person of your squad was running. All you can do is assume and extrapolate based on what select members have said. You even have no idea how many people were in full ascended or in exotics and rares (yes, some new players aren’t full decked out in exotics)
- their certainly is leeway in how much damage everyone brings, but suffice to say, with such close events anyone bringing stats that are NOT NEEDED will be hurting the success rate

You base your argument on that 1 kill you had. I’ve been running this map multiple times with organized groups and have defended every lane (even commanded Rata Sum myself). If you want to misslead people into believing that they can slack off, fine. I’m done arguing in circles with such stupidity.

Vinceman.4572:

There would have been way better opportunities to lower inflation. Reducing direct gold rewards from dungeon was not. The whole argument was crap as hell and only to lead players away from dungeons to other content, nothing more.

I’ll bite, tell us, which parts of the game had similar direct gold reward as dungeons?

I’d love to know since I must have missed that gold reward over the course of 3 years.

Remember, DIRECT GOLD REWARD, not gold earned via the TP or such. The game must create the gold you are getting. Just putting this here since some peope seem to have a hard time understanding the concept of monetary inflation versus trade.

Goldberg.4831:

Yes diminishing returns existed, run the same path for the seccond time in a day, it was not worth a gold.

I never said diminishing returs did not exist. Again, learn to read. I said there was enough easy very fast dungeons that you could fill up hours worth of them and reap the gold rewards.

For soemone who only ran AC1-3 and CoF1 this could be a suprise though.

Goldberg.4831:

So you can say inflation, liquid gold, etc etc. All it has to do with is Anet wants you to open your wallet and buy gold. Thats it.

Yes, the current shift in the ingame economy is taking it’s toll on people who are used to spending gold like crazy and only getting it via dungeons.

Yes, arenanet are shoving people to buy more gems.

I never disagreed with any of that. I even agree dungeons rewards should be buffed and gave examples of what could be done.

I disagree with DIRECT GOLD REWARD getting increased and have explained multiple times why. The only counter arguments so far was:" I don’t believe you." or “There was no inflation happening.”

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

Cyninja.2954:

reapex.8546:

kult.3465:

Cyninja.2954:

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

ZoSo.4867:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

7) They’ll run around in full knight gear with all defensive specializations because “HoT is hard”.

Wait a sec, what is so bad about using knight gear?

Probably that it’s not Berserker or Assassin, because apparently, that’s the only way to play the game, didn’t you know?

I use Knight’s on my Ele, actually. HoT isn’t hard, but Ele is way too squishy for me to be comfortable in Berserker gear with it.

? What a **** comment.

Maybe because Knights is absolutely not needed in HoT (go celestial on Ele), especially when the main limiting factor is damage.

You can run Knights on any content where you want to spend more time than necessary or you lack the player skill for useful gear. Timegated content is a different story. Learn to play or at least use something that resembles damage gear. As is, there is NO content in game that requires Knights (aside from some WvW bunker builds). Even raid tanks only take as mich toughness as absolutely necessary to hold agro (400-500 over 1,000 base usually for a total of about 1,500).

It’s not the players fault that arenanet balanced the events around everyone running maximum damage. I don’t even want to imagine an entire group running full knights on TD scar lane. Have fun never succeeding. Wearing knights on this map is effectively leeching off of other players contribution.

False, difficulty is a subjective matter. HoT is a difficult to me. It’s the people in paper towel gear that I rez all the time while I wear my Knights gear.

Agreed, I’ve been in several SUCCESSFUL TD where the majority people are using whatever they see fit.

And you wound know this how? By asking everyone nicely?

The popular opinion of TD being the hardest new meta map and current requirements for 100% success beg to differ.

And you would know the opposite, how?

?

What’s the primary topic of this thread you are posting in?

Are you even serious?

Nice strawman argument, was talking about your post about their being only one way to beat TD meta. If you don’t want to answer how you know this, that’s fine.

There is only 1 way to beat the TD meta, and it requires an absurd amount of group damage.

You still ahven’t answered how this would be possible with everyone running waht ever they like.

My argument is supported by the close nature of the event, and the very specific demand for as much damage as possible consumables in organised maps.

Your argument is supported by:“You said so.” Not a very strong foot to stand on.