Guild Wars 2

Things that need to be done asap:
- defense needs to be more viable, if ppl spent hours to upgrade keep, it shouldn’t take 5 min to flip it to paper
- outmanned buff needs major rework – ppl see outmanned buff and quit; outmanned buff should give you major buff to stats so even if you are outmanned you can still at least defend vs huge blobs and not get 1 shot or watch your sieg getting destroyed by eles on the walls BECAUSE ANET STILL DIDN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT WALLS BEING ABSOLUTE USELESS VS ELES, ENGIS AND NECROS

the problem is, Anet stated that wvw is unfair so nothing will be done so the only solution that is left: if you want to win wvw, buy guilds…

try to fight BG or SoS, they will abuse the hell out of your lack of coverage lol

i do feel the OP tho, defense is very weak in this game while requires a lot of effort hence why many commanders don’t even upgrade anything anymore but just keep kitten “papper” so they can flip it back later

while anet can’t really nerf “coverage” i think they should indeed make defense more viable and rework outmanned buff so it is actually usefull for wvw and not pve’ers only

i don’t want to be rude but their idea of “oh hey we are outnumbered, more MF, let’s wvw” is stupid, players don’t work like that; they see outnumbered buff and think “crap, there is karma train running around, we have no chance” and quit << THIS is reality

there is a pve item, forgot the name, that allows any class to use smoke bomb

body block can cause so many issues and griefing…i played a game before with body block in pvp, i was really bad, especially fighting classes with pets

imagine fighting pet necro: you get body blocked by pets in the corner and can’t do kitten about it

backstab doesn’t have any risk? did you ever try a thief even?

plz go roll a thief and try to land those 9k backstabs on half decent players on ANY class, tell me how it went

Fortus.6175:

Yeah I can see all the hate coming my way, but I will stand strong on my point. As someone getting really tired of thieves one shooting me and my friends (which guesss what, have also quitted sPvP for this and many other reasons) I can tell you that this is wrong.

I know most of you hate comparisons, but I will do the unthinkable; LoL Evelynn. A stealth cahmpion which would one shoot most people in stealth with a 3 secs stun followed by 2 spikes. This was back when the game was young and very unbalanced, she got gutted and was nearly useless for some time. I dont want thieves to be gutted, I do enjoy playing them a bit, but people has to realize how unhealthy this is for the game. New players and old players are getting annoyed by this, perhaps it might not win games, in fact I believe having a thief in your team might cost you a game, but still makes the game not enjoyable, it is, toxic, yes I went as far as calling one shoot mechanics toxic

And yes, tbh I dont have much issues with my guard vs thieves, but this is not the case for all the other classes. Can we please eliminate rock/paper/scissor stuff and add fights?

9k is not one shot though, even zerker ele would have more HP than that….

i play a thief and necro, i did get hit that hard few times; i blinded them right away, guess who died….yep, that very same one shot thief

i honestly would be more worried about things like mesmers after patch, about necros being probably the most effecient class for pvp with their tankiness dmg and utility etc. thieves are getting worse and worse with every patch, i don’t think you will have to worry about them soon

Kai.9182:

It can be frustrating to see lowbies on the map when it’s queued. Easiest way to avoid these players is be in a guild that likes to run tagless or don’t play large scale.
I feel like if they are new it’s not as poor as someone who has an 80 is making the choice to rely on their server or team more.
At the end of the day you all paid to play, so will never happen.

in other games you are not allowed to join max lv pvp events despite paying

in legaue (even if it is a free game) you can’t even do ranked untill you are lv 30 and have at least 15 champions

sylvari <3

Sanduskel.1850:

Cynz.9437:

after patch thieves will be the worst

here, i said it

Only for players who are too lazy to do something other than abuse a broken stealth mechanic.

lol stealth nerf isn’t the problem…

Sanduskel.1850:

Cynz.9437:

i would really love to hear from devs where they see thieves role

they can’t defend points in pvp
they can’t capture them (unless point is empty or very bad players are defending it, but you don’t need to be thief for it…)
they contribute little to group fights
in pve they are overshadowed by warriors/mesmers (mesmers for stealth etc.)
in wvw a ranger can scout as effective except they contribute more to fights

what are thieves for in this game? for roleplaying a ninja?

i think it would really help if devs would set on certain role for thieves and would balance them around that role instead throwing nerfs around just because non-thieves don’t know how to handle stealth

I don’t agree with any of your assertions about what thieves can or can’t do.

i think i might have to rephrase it

my point was that i can take any other class and perform those tasks better than thief

i have a necro for example: i can very very effectively defend point in pvp
i can also can quite effectively fear people off the point, kill them even and capture point
necros have amazing group utility, i would have to make an extra thread just to list of all possible amazing things they can contribute to team fights
in pve they might not offer stealth, ports or run speed but they are pretty good at killing mobs
in wvw necros are probably most desired profession along with guard and warrior

you might not agree with me though, which is fine

Kincaidia.3192:

Okay Straegen, the nerf to Opportunities roughly matches the buff to base init regen.

Is it necessary to nerf my emergency init (Klepto and 3 signets) from 9 down to 5?

Can you nerf that and still lie through your teeth and call this a “MASSSSSSSSSIVE BUFF”?

^^so much this

the thing is, even if every class had anti-stealth abilities ppl would still cry rivers about stealth

other games have such mechanics and it doesn’t stop people to cry about it

bradderzh.2378:

Cynz.9437:

after patch thieves will be the worst

here, i said it

Yeah all that extra initiative without the need for traits is going to kill them.

there is more to it…but there are threads for it elsewhere

oh the kitten talk…
be happy we actually get to fight people and don’t log in into empty maps…
be happy anet actually supports wvw and doesn’t just throw it in game w/o any changes ever after launch

what are you all trying to accomplish by talking crap to guilds/servers? do you want them to quit or something? what would it accomplish? nothing except for the fact you wouldn’t have anyone to fight and game will become boring

i am not member of any of this guilds, i am just an a normal player that enjoys wvw/pvp and find the whole drama here just silly

go do some wvw and stop talking crap, jeez

back to match up: had some fun fights today with our little roaming group vs SoS and JINX, GGs

after patch thieves will be the worst

here, i said it

Keiel.7489:

Cynz.9437:

many games have automatic loot, idk why thise one doesn’t

Many games doesn’t have WvW. I dunno why this one does.

and many games do have wvw or something similar and auto loot

i see where it could be helpull, examples: if you are using ACs and get eventually overrun or fight in zergs

sometimes zerg fights last really long that bags actually disappear; ppl say just spam F but here is the joke: rez has higher priority than looting, there were quite few times when i tried to loot bags during fight and ended up in rezzing animation and got stuck in it which is really bad if you are in 50 vs 50 fight

sometimes ppl just wanna pvp w/o having to worry about rank etc.

i understand OP, i had similar experience today as well

Justin ODell.9517:

For more context, I’m interested in improving matches beyond just finding players near your MMR. This includes doing things like preferring a better spread of professions and builds, matching people with dishonor with other people with dishonor, grouping people by rank or play style, etc…

These things can sound like a good idea, but can also cause you to wait in the queue longer. I want to know much longer than typical MMR pairing you’d be willing to wait. We can compensate for that wait by doing things like shutting off extra filters if you’ve been waiting, or adjusting the scoring weight by wait time.

as said before i think match making (while having its own issues) in LoL works pretty good, maybe you should look up it as an example

ipan.4356:

@Cynz

Yep.

Notice how the majority of the ‘roles’ you talk about for Rogues involve killing people very quickly (much more quickly than other classes – we are Assassins, and the closer we get to one shot one kill, the better we are doing our job).

The problem with that, which you mention, is that other people HATE US when we are actually doing what we are supposed to – GANKING people.

If we don’t gank, then we die too quickly. If we do gank, then everyone else despises the class and screams for nerfs – also, the other proble with ganking is that you get a whole group of Rogues together who can basically instagib entire groups by getting the jump on them and using all their burst – with cd’s or initiative, if an entire party or guild is doing this, then they can burst down anyone, and be refreshed when the respawns come back>

So, you either get nerfed into nothingness – or the class slowly becomes a doppelganger of another class – or they let us remain OP.

Being OP is the Thief’s CLASS MECHANIC.

I wish developer would get this from the get go – and either decide NOT to include the class who must be OP to survive – or explain to everyone up front that this is simply how the class has to be.

I played the Witch Elf in WAR forever, and it’s exactly the same bs.

the funny thing is tho, this game has active dodge; if i decided to blow all my burst in wow for example only thing ppl can rely on their passive block/dodge or pop w/e CD before i do that; in gw2 you can actually actively dodge the burst w/o sacrificing major CDs…

look at pve, there are plenty of NPCs in this game that would one shot you if you don’t dodge in time and quite few of their spells are not even telegraphed; burst in this game IS managable imo

or could just make mix of it: new content every month and pvp update every month….

mind blown!!!

Kai.9182:

Every time someone makes fun of SOR I just think of the guy the server was named after and shake my head them.

i doubt majority even knows about the name..<_<

Deli.1302:

Cynz.9437:

what if a pve’er wants to play with irl friends and they play on t1 server?

They can guest.

you can guest only on 2 servers at time… what if i used up my guest tries to run CoE and CoF… i can see major qq from pve comming

define what is “better quality” match?

i am personally fine with waiting 5 min for decent match tho, that is how LoL match making is, while not perfect at least you don’t have as many afkers and get queued with/against ppl of similar skill level

i think LoL is very successful esport and matches are not really based on death….<_<

just look at very first min of the match, it is usually support with adc sitting in their corner sniping creeps for gold zzzzz

Keiel.7489:

JaredKincade.9761:

Keiel.7489:

Maelwaedd.5842:

hardknockbb.6284:

Sunt.6835:

hardknockbb.6284:

Heard a BG commander rage quit on BG BL not too long ago.

I heard a whole SoR wvw rage quited since reset night.

That’s ok we’re having more fun collecting loot. Got my third precursor.

Did Anet do something to the precursor drop rate? cos I got the legend on friday and someone else in the guild also got another precursor, and i have heard a number of people have gotten them since then too, or it could be i have noticed it more since i got mine

Should’ve kept your mouth shut, now Anet is going to nerf precursor drops.

Don’t be silly, ANET doesn’t read this thread.

Tell that to my infractions =(

lol that’s moderator..not dev tho

ipan.4356:

Cynz.9437:

i would really love to hear from devs where they see thieves role

they can’t defend points in pvp
they can’t capture them (unless point is empty or very bad players are defending it, but you don’t need to be thief for it…)
they contribute little to group fights
in pve they are overshadowed by warriors/mesmers (mesmers for stealth etc.)
in wvw a ranger can scout as effective except they contribute more to fights

what are thieves for in this game? for roleplaying a ninja?

i think it would really help if devs would set on certain role for thieves and would balance them around that role instead throwing nerfs around just because non-thieves don’t know how to handle stealth

The problem is, that the Rogue playstyle is always a SOLO playstyle, by nature.

Gimicky-ness IS THE PLAYSTYLE. What I mean is, nothing you do is sustainable – you hit fast and kill, and then run.

Or you hit from the shadows – and then RUN.

Or, you stunlock and kill – then run.

Or, you jump and dodge and spin and roll so much that you can’t be hit.

Whatever you do, it isn’t going toe to toe with anything (except maybe another Thief).

Your role, by it’s very definition, makes you a solo character (or, at best, support for a small group of adventurers/dungeon runners).

Prob is, Anet has to balance them for grand melee (i.e., WvW and sPvP) – and this is precisely where the Thief does not fit in, and never will.

To be fair, it isn’t entirely Anet’s fault – this same problem crops up in every multiplayer game that attempts to incorporate such a gimciky class.

There’s a reason other games stick to single-player RPG’s when they allow the Rogue class.

The more the Thief gets patched, it will either be nerf stomped into the ground, or it will be made far too similar to another class, most likely Warrior and everyone will just wonder why not roll that class instead.

Rogues simply don’t belong in multiplayer games like MMO’s – and if you think I’m wrong, then I challenge you to come up with a single major MMO where this hasn’t happened, because in every MMO I’ve ever played, this exact scenario plays out with this class every single time.

yeah i agree with you, i played few mmos and all thief like class followed same fate: they got nerfed to the point where nobody played them anymore which is why it saddens me because i personally think thieves could have a role despite their “gimmicky-ness”

i can bring as example wow rogue (wow has its own problems, and rogues suck there atm but let’spout it aside): rogues were pretty good in arena in some seasons for control and and high dmg which allowed them to kill enemies fast or at least provide enough CC support so the team could kill enemy; in RBGs (which is kind of like gw2 arena, except 10v10) they would be there to ninja points or ninja kill flag carrier and were pretty good at it in some seasons

another example: Evelynn from LoL, she is one of those non conventional junglers, she is also a stealth class but is based on high dmg and decent moblity; ppl in LoL hate Evelynn as she is good at keeping enemy gold low since they have to buy pink wards or they will end up in 3v2 or 2v1 situation very quickly w/o seeing it comming; full build Evelynn is also quite nasty as her dmg is really high and she can drop someone pretty fast

it IS possible to give thief-like classes a role that they are really good at, imo

the major difference i see between thieves in gw2 and rogues in wow for example: when rogues were in good state they could actually defend point untill help came or they could also win 1v1; if the patch comes in it’s current state i don’t see thieves being able to win 1v1 fight vs other classes given same skill level of the players

i think servers should get their crap together and team up against BG just for the lulz

KaiserCX.7103:

…
One last thing not related to current list of changes. Can you please reduce the cool-down on out of range steal to 1-2 seconds? 4 seconds is kind of ridiculous, especially considering you can stand right at the edge of the range where the red line range indicator under steal isn’t showing and it will still fail like you’re not in range, which also honestly needs to be fixed.

^^ so much this… please

Keiel.7489:

Maelwaedd.5842:

hardknockbb.6284:

Sunt.6835:

hardknockbb.6284:

Heard a BG commander rage quit on BG BL not too long ago.

I heard a whole SoR wvw rage quited since reset night.

That’s ok we’re having more fun collecting loot. Got my third precursor.

Did Anet do something to the precursor drop rate? cos I got the legend on friday and someone else in the guild also got another precursor, and i have heard a number of people have gotten them since then too, or it could be i have noticed it more since i got mine

Should’ve kept your mouth shut, now Anet is going to nerf precursor drops.

inb4 stealth nerf haha

i didn’t get any, saldy

i would really love to hear from devs where they see thieves role

they can’t defend points in pvp
they can’t capture them (unless point is empty or very bad players are defending it, but you don’t need to be thief for it…)
they contribute little to group fights
in pve they are overshadowed by warriors/mesmers (mesmers for stealth etc.)
in wvw a ranger can scout as effective except they contribute more to fights

what are thieves for in this game? for roleplaying a ninja?

i think it would really help if devs would set on certain role for thieves and would balance them around that role instead throwing nerfs around just because non-thieves don’t know how to handle stealth

Justin ODell.9517:

Obsidia.5127:

I am bringing this up again as ArenaNet clearly don’t understand how much of a problem it is.

We do, and we’re approaching the problem from multiple angles.

In the long run we’re planning on doing something very similar to your suggestion. However, while conceptually simple, it is not so simple of a change that we can include it as a hot fix.

yay they are working on it, any fix to this problem is better than none

i will just leave it here

i wish we could at least vendor them…. i threw away thouthands

there is generall issue

you can leave matches (tpvp or hot join) w/o real punishment…. any game i know that had arena had certain punishment for leaving games prematurely…

many games have automatic loot, idk why thise one doesn’t

the problem is: ppl say that lv 1 bought the game and desrves to get into wvw

but i also bought the game and i also spent my time pve’ing to get to 80 and get good gear, do i not deserve to wvw with 80 and not rally bots?

there is nothing more frustrating when i put effort into downing enemy and yet they rally because there is uplv mindlessly running around like a chicken spamming 1

it is not elitism, it is about effectivness; i want to have fun doing wvw, i do not have it when i watch half of the group getting downed because they just left character creation screen while there are a lot of good wvw’ers sitting in queue for hour

Junkpile.7439:

If two monkeys fight monkey thief kick monkey warrior kitten because it’s much harder land some ground target skill than heartseekker.

he doesn’t have to play hammer lol

probably BG unless nr.2 servers follow BG example and buy more guilds

what could happen also (but unrealistic) is that servers fighting BG would team up just to keep BG points down, but considering those 2 servers are also competing each other, it won’t happen probably

Gudradain.3892:

Cynz.9437:

Gudradain.3892:

Here how to fix the problem about tier 1 and balance the servers population :

You can’t transfer to a server ranked higher than yours.

So BG would not get any transfer until it go down in ranking. Eventually every server will get at chance at #1.

that won’t happen

That should happen.

WvW will be a better place and T1 won’t be able to bully and destroy community anymore.

You want a shot at #1? Build a stable community and get some playing skill.

the problem is they won’t remove xfers in such manner; what if a pve’er wants to play with irl friends and they play on t1 server? that is just an example

imo the issue lies within zerg….
- zerging is too effective
- sieging up and upgrading is weak against zergs

conclusion? buff defense and nerf zerging

for example: walls need to be higher or have better protection for defensive sieg
outmanned buff needs complete revamp etc.

Gudradain.3892:

Here how to fix the problem about tier 1 and balance the servers population :

You can’t transfer to a server ranked higher than yours.

So BG would not get any transfer until it go down in ranking. Eventually every server will get at chance at #1.

that won’t happen

JaredKincade.9761:

All the posts about “buying” guilds has got me thinking.

Before I start let me clarify something that people like to forget. I can’t speak for all servers, but I know enough about what’s going on BG to know that BG has never ever given more than the cost of a guild to move. In fact, I know of no particular case where it was more than 50% of the moving costs. In ZDs case, it was much much less. So for the definition of helping guilds move, or “buying” I’m talking about 50% or less than the guild cost to move.

It shows how differently SOR and BG consider their community. SOR is very proud of the fact they never ever “buy” guilds to SOR. They talk about their community but they refuse to help any guild become a part of it.

BGs community is inclusive and SOR’s is exclusive. BG invites guilds to become a part of its community. More importantly, we are willing to go to bat for any guild that wants to become a part of it. We’ve done influence boosts, let people share guild missions and yes, we’ve sent gold to help reduce a guilds out of pocket expense to become a part of our community.

It’s not something we are ashamed of, it’s something we are PROUD of. Committing to moving a guild that one person or a small group of people have worked months or even a year to build to move to a new home is scary. The costs are enormous, not just transfer costs, but influence for guild upgrades and guild missions are a six week minimum to rebuild, that’s with unlimited influence. Why in the world would a guild make that sacrifice if they weren’t 100% sure they would be welcomed into the new community.

That’s why we go to great lengths to make them feel welcome and put our money where our mouth is and help cut the costs they have down. We show them that we want them here, that we’ll make room for them on reset night, that we’ll invite them to the server meetings and welcome them to post on server websites. Nothing brings guilds together like sharing the same guild chat for a week or two while you build influence or share guild missions. THAT is community.

(EDIT: Based on posts that SOR never ever helps guilds move with gold)
In contrast to that philosophy is SOR’s, which can be boiled down to “Get on my level.” You make it clear that no one is welcome to SOR unless they take a step of faith towards your community, instead of you making a step of faith towards their guild.

(EDIT: Based on posts from your community in this very thread) It is the same attitude towards new players on your own server. They have to be as “hardcore” as your guilds are before they are welcome on the map. Casuals need not apply, either to your guilds or your server.

Then, you make it a point to degrade and downtalk BG for its community choices. We aren’t inclusive in your eyes, we are “PvX guilds filled with pugs”. We don’t help people that want to join our community, we “buy guilds as mercenaries” and “destroy competitive play”.

A guild wants to know that you as a server have their back once they move over, not be worried that they will be excluded once the gems are spent.

Do not lay the blame of a difference in population or coverage on the choices we’ve made on how we built our community. Maybe take a look at the image of your own community you’re putting out.

i wouldn’t say that SOR doesn’t welcome new people…i xfered there for wvw few days ago and people were pretty friendly, regardless if i was roaming or helping zerg commander; i also got into wvw guild within first 5 min after xfer

people can say all they want, but it is actually fun to play for SoR and the server does have quite few good commander; i personally had a blast this past few days

i come from lower tier servers where roaming/scouting/upgrading keeps/tactical play is rarely appreciated; ppl on SoR at least care about such things and try to support them, SoR might not win this match-up but i still think they did quite well and props to all guilds who going to wvw every day

i especially loved commanding from guard from [FEAR] and had fun running with [Choo] train xD

Junkpile.7439:

Sound like thief needs nerf. It just isn’t fair that other profession players need to l2p when thiefs doing fine without any skills.

i can right now make a warrior and literary mash my face on keyboard and probably archive way better results than thief spamming heartseeker…

ppl who die to heartseeker spammers are ones that stand still and don’t do anything aka training dummies

the thing i don’t think OP is being serious…

so many BG ppl trolling SoR, that is hilarious

i think one of my favorite was Devona’s Rack and Ebay

this game needs DR in generall or major nerf to CCs, some of them are too strong and come at low costs

well i guess thgey want us to kill ppl with auto attacks while having even less survivability….

Switch.4892:

On a slightly related note, the other day I went 1on1 with a warrior. I was playing D/D at the time. He pretty much ran around in circles spamming auto-attack while I was getting easy cloak and daggers off on him. After I downed him he whispered me and told me he reported me for hacking and that my mother would be proud.

I suppose the only way a thief could ever beat a warrior is if he was hacking. Warrior logic 101.

and that is why thieves are getting nerfed on 10th lol

funny how no matter what game i played, everyone was always crying rivers about rogues going stealth so devs in every single game kept nerfing rogues untill nobody played them anymore…

in gw2 thieves don’t have actual perma stealth yet still players can’t handle it; if stealth is such a big issue, maybe they should buff thief base survival as trade off for stealth nerf, maybe then ppl won’t rely on stealth as much

the joke is, if theoretically thieves were deleted from the game, mesmers would probably end up on their place as major subject for QQ hacking can’t see player yada yada

i like being sneaky, i like the fact that thieves survivability is very active (compare to guard or necro that can just stand and kitten facetank dmg in the face) and involves high risk; i like high mobility; playing a thief feels like playing an action game almost

things i dislike:
- other classes have little trade off compared to thieves: if warrior for example goes bunker they still do a lot of dmg, if thief goes bunker, they are still glass cannon and do no dmg
- traps…what are those…? feel very weak
- everything is tied to stealth (regen, condi removal etc.) yet stealth keeps getting nerfed and is not as reliable normal buffs/hals from other classes

Doggie.3184:

If you’re a Charr Thief your reason to live is to creep people out with your beached whale Death Blossom.

i died laughing irl xD

i don’t like the change to medium t3 either :/

i love my sylvari look, idk what you are talking about :P

oh i just realized: thieves will be still best class to get map completion done xD