@Dirtyrascal.1023:
- old system wasn’t looking for 50/50 matches most of the time
- old system promoted farming, there was literary no difference wether you are good or bad player, you just had to farm matches; it was literary old farmboards with sprinkles
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
Funny, cause you d think a good player would be able to maintain his winstreak. Oh silly me, so the challenging system was more lenient than the SNAP system?
You think matching HIGH MMR PLAYER (7000 MMR) against Low MMR players (3000 MMR) is ok and competitive?? Really??
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
If you only knew how many players are there camping bronze league (amber) in LoL all season xD (because there you can actually lose tiers).
But at least they don’t lose or win 20 games in row, or get through the whole season (from bronze to challenger) in a week.
Um, yes they do. Also, you won’t get to diamond/legend with 20 games. Besides leagues in LoL have more tiers within each leagues and tiers are 100 pts based and not just 5 pips.
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
If you only knew how many players are there camping bronze league (amber) in LoL all season xD (because there you can actually lose tiers).
@Dirtyrascal.1023
My statement comes from almost 3 years of playing this game. Even before leagues the system was there. It is such an illusion if you actually think that matchmaking puts you in 50/50 matches because they were anything but 50/50. I mean i understand that you face better teams when you win more but shouldn’t your teammates also be better? Then how do you explain that i was getting guards stomping mesmer clones, zerging animal, getting point capped literary behind their back etc. while enemy could 1v3 my team with ease?
Certainly i couldn’t prove it before leagues but thanks to lovely 3 pips per win i can now. I won some matches i wasn’t supposed to win from begin with and we got 3 pips for it. And i had such matches few times in a row after having win streak. I think i can even dig out some screenshots of having 10 wins and followed by 10 loses in a row.
Yea you like the fact the weaker team can win then, sorry but thats not real pvp to me. The strongest team should always win, and also the buffs at temple doesnt break the gameplay as much as lord on foefire does.
“We can’t keep the enemy team from killing lord, they suck!”
I didnt have any issues with the lord prior to the last meta change. Since we now have a huge clusterferk of damage spammed out like never before, one person can actually solo the lord now. When it requires max 2 people to kill the lord and with only two they can kill the lord in a few seconds, how the ferk do you think the team can be there in time? It just require right classes at lord and its dead in a few seconds.
If your gate is open and losing your lord would cause issues for your team, why do you leave him unprotected?
If your gate is not open, why do you ignore the warnings?
Here is the problem, even if you actually follow enemy to lord sometimes, as i said, you won’t even get chance to heal lord. DH are biggest offended in my opinion due to instant traps one shotting NPCs. You can’t interrupt traps.
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
Even though you can play around it, Impacting Disruption should have 5s internal cooldown (so people wouldnt spam it or get rewarded for a random interrupt so often).
i can agree on it just because i think anything that promotes excessive spam is bad design
Er no. What good is distracting daggers then?
The bad gameplay is on the part of the person who gets interrupted over and over again. INI already limits the number of times a thief can use the skill.
When you take away from the damage one can do with iNI type skills with cooldowns as you suggest it merely promotes more AA type attacks.
Thieves already have an issue with backstab in that many feel for cost of INI spent one might as well just use dagger AA. I fail to see how diminishing the returns of another INI type skill , which is already relatively easy to counter , promotes better gameplay.
The issue with headshot is it was always a skill that could be ignored to a great extent. If one was pulled off pre PI the impact on the recipient was minimal. They got used to using skills when they wished and shrugging off that headshot.
Now it not so easily ignored and those same people suggest it a problem with PI rather than it being their own unwillingness to adapt.
Headshot projectile is pretty slow. React to it as you would rapd fire or long range shot. It will do less damage than either of those in the long run.
Well that is because on one sunny day Anet decided to nerf headshot years ago.
This is not true. You need to win several matches in a row to move up tiers in emerald and sapphire. If you are in the bottom half of match making in your division you aren’t going to be winning 3-4 matches in a row because you will constantly be facing teams with better players. The more you lose the more your rank goes down. *So if you start a losing streak you are essentially done for the season. * No matter what happens you will have to get win streaks with people that are in the bottom of your division.
This is more of the caste system for match making. It is designed to ensure people can’t work their way out of where they have been binned by MMR. If I gave the best player in the game the worst MMR they would struggle getting ranks. If I gave a bad player the best MMR, they would likely get carried across several divisions before their teams couldn’t carry them anymore.
Why is that? Because it is a lot easier for 4 relatively good people to carry 1 relatively bad player than it is for 1 relatively good person to carry 4 relatively bad players.
….But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
I lost like 7 matches in a row in sapphire. Eventually i won some. It is NOT that bad.
If you were right, i would never win any games anymore.
I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?
You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.
But it was what I said: nobody can improve if his team is completely destroyed or the opposite (faceroll the enemy team). One can only practice on even matches.
Um no, i personally learned more from losing games than winning.
OK, but take my last match as example. I lost by like 500 × 50. Every single time I tried to neutralize a point, the enemy team jumped on me in a 1×3 fight. Do you think someone learn from this type of fight? I don’t. The contrary is also true if we win too easily.
Yeah, you actually do. Take a guess what happens when you fight in tourneys? Idk what class you play but as thief it is common all 5 ppl just focus you non stop and teammates can’t always help you.
The problem with thief being able to beat necro’s is that you cannot hold/cap/decap a point while doing that. Which means your win is futile in most situations..
fear + immobilize and you will be able to decap
because necro clearly doesn’t have enough instant condi transfers….
I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?
You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.
But it was what I said: nobody can improve if his team is completely destroyed or the opposite (faceroll the enemy team). One can only practice on even matches.
Um no, i personally learned more from losing games than winning.
I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?
You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.
I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions
Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD
I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.
Implementing what you are asking won’t change a thing since,even then, High Mmr player will still face low mmr player. The problem is not the placement or whatever. It’s the way the system is setup up. It doesn’t take a genius to know that 10 > 5. And as long as this goes up; the 5 might not win a single match all season long. What Anet should have done is mix 10 with 5 and match them against another team with a 10 and 5.
I’m just concerned about player population declining due to excessive loss streaks. I still believe that in a competitive game mode there should be some rewards for being better.
To follow up on it.5 currently there is nothing competitive about the game since the odds favor one camp at the beginning of every game.
Actually they won’t since matchmaking takes divisions into account. As sapphire you will never face amber/emerald (unless those emerald is in t5 or premade with someone).
I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions
Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD
I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.
LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min
Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffee
THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED
Dude, I routinely got 20m+ queue with the last season. 3m queue is extremely good for me. The system could be improved (see my sig), but it’s definitely better than Season 1.
Same here, last season queues would go up to 10-15 min, sometimes longer depending on day time. Right now i am having 2-3 min queues – it is amazing.
I also have to say thanks to Anet for actually improving solo vs premades issue. I face premades very rarely now.
I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions
Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD
I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.
It means they have brain … not like others… if we loose, but I saw everybody did all that he could, I say nothing, I even enjoy it, but when 2-3 plays good, at my or legendary phase, and the other 2-3 player is emerald type, no brain, than I want to climb the walls…
There is no enjoy, and it will remain the same.. ppl will remain in ruby with solo queue forever…
Don’t tell me to get gut, ’cauze I f smash your face, when I played with 4 pre-made legendary type players, we smashed them, I was the best player there…there is no chance to solo queue and expect to win/climb divisions after you reach ruby, no more, nada ,ever…
brain? Baddies got the Primordial Legend title in season 1 because of the Matchmaking and those exploits.
It just means they grinded the hell out of season 1
Title does not equate to player skill
^^this
you didn’t even need to exploit, you could just maintain 50% win rate and eventually get up there
5k+ matches eh? That’d be less than 1% if they are still around. I mean how much more elitism should be displayed in this forum before some of you get your butt soaked in reality that many of us do not play this game as a job?
Getting new people in the game is good; it’s not bad. And that’s exactly every single online game wants and needs. That said, for leagues, ANET probably should have created a barrier of entry – Rank 80 would have sufficed.
Now show me yours Stickerhappy.8052.
I mean no offense, I am generally curious coz If Anet said MMR works by placing you on the same skill as your teammates, 5k worth of games is a lot meaning, you are already an experienced pvper so your teammates should be prolly the same If that’s what the Matchmaking intended to do.
If this isn’t the case, I do not even think there is proper Matchmaking
Saw everything this season, good teammates, bad teammates, really good enemy team, really bad enemy team, even matches~
I usually restart queue if it is longer than 5-7 min. Sometimes it helps. But yeah i agree, sitting afk in Hotm is boring (hence why i spam forums between queues), i miss old times when you could queue outside of hotm or duel.
Did we ever get a reason why they disabled being able to hotjoin while in Q?
yeah they said something once about ppl missing queue because they were on loading screen while crossing zones or in fun wvw fight/duel etc.
I usually restart queue if it is longer than 5-7 min. Sometimes it helps. But yeah i agree, sitting afk in Hotm is boring (hence why i spam forums between queues), i miss old times when you could queue outside of hotm or duel.
Meanwhile engis/scrappers got gold spooned with each patch, probably because of Grouch…
Engi was probably the most nerfed class for the first 12-14 months, not that it matters, because most people should be able to work out that logically classes getting more nerfs or not is irrelevant, what counts is the end result, but I guess that doesn’t fit into your thief victim complex fantasy.
Just as for most of the game thief being perma meta, being the strongest solo carry in the game and having some of the most broken builds the game has ever seen (s/d thief at its peak was hilariously broken) doesn’t fit either.
Sssuuureee that is why people throw tantrum when they get more than 1 thief on team.
End result is: scrapper is stupidly broken right now. Period.
It’s also wrong to compare warbanner which is an aoe instant rezz with search and rescue which was good 1 week after release when people didn’t expect the skill.
And druid is far away from being great. Every team is replacing their druids atm because they get shrekt by revs and reapers easily and have no real function anyways.
Then it has something to say about revs and reapers….
Soo, i got to sapphire after 4 days of pvping…When i got there, theres still the same nabs who let close getting decapped. So…everyone who got to sapphire with the speed of lightning i can burst your bubble right now that you all suck and that you got carried by the system. I litterally have played 3 matches as a rev and kill sapphire boys with it without any issues. I start to feel this season 2 league is a bigger joke than season 1.
I am losing matches right now, quite a lot of this. I did hit the brick wall and i am ok with it.
Just wait give it a few more days you’ll be less happy about the new system
I stopped caring so much about loses long time ago (thanks to lovely 50% algorithm). If i did well, idc if i lose, at least i had fun fights. If i did bad then i deserve to lose. Simple as it is.
If game is absolutely not fun (example begin of HoT when thief was total trash and i couldn’t even have fun in fights regardless los/win) i just play other games.
It doesn’t help much to resize map. If your teammate is sitting exactly on point, you can’t see them.
hmmm true.
say Cynz, what do you think about adding red blue profession icons under the home mid far icons at the top?
eh, by the way, are you sapphire or ruby already? as your MMR is quite high, you should be there already i think.
I would prefer those icons be above point icon, after couple games everyone and their mother knows where points are. Don’t need flippin big red circle telling me HI I AM THE HENGE.
Sitting in sapphire, can’t carry there on thief so progression is really slow.
Would you prefer to have guys stoming mesmer clones, zerging animal etc. in diamond/legend? Because that is what i saw last season due to moronic 50% algorithm.
Yes, dude. You can shut up now. We get it. You are on lucky win streak and you love the new system, because it carries you through the divisions with all the bonus pips for a streak. Well good for you. I really hope you will hit the same brick wall, which many decent players have been hiting from the start of the season. You will come here to complain so fast, it will be like your kitten is no fire.
All I am seeing around the forums and ingame is people who either are on huge win streaks or on constant lose streaks. So you want to tell me that this is the represantation of the pvp community? Only big pros or terrible noobs, right? Well WRONG. There are many decent players stuck without any progress at all, because they constantly get terrible matchups. There are barely any competitive game right now. Almost every game is ended with like 200-300 point difference. This is no fun for either side AT ALL. Its a complete mess right now, and I honestly don’t know how anyone can defend this crap.
If you really think this is a properly working system you really need to get off the pink clouds you are drifting on right now, and try to have broader perspective upon the current system outside of your lucky winstreaks.
I am losing matches right now, quite a lot of this. I did hit the brick wall and i am ok with it.
Would you prefer to have guys stoming mesmer clones, zerging animal etc. in diamond/legend? Because that is what i saw last season due to moronic 50% algorithm.
All damage is on AA with thief expected to spend all initiative on defense and gap closers.
If damage was moved from AA to initiative abilities and defense abilities were buffed then thief would have a place by being to able shift their tactics on the fly. Out of combat stealth needs to be easier. Thief needs more blinds, evades, and endurance refill mechanics less hard CC.
Thief doesn’t need massive buffs. They need to nerf scrappers and revs. I honestly don’t understand why Anet is so obsessed with adding more and more hardcounters to thieves.
There are very good and dangerous players out there that playing warrior or thief at sapphire/ruby. It’s a lot about if someone skilled or don’t have skill for the class/game.
Given same skill level no scrapper or rev should lose to thief/war.
Well Anet been nerfing thief class non stop for 3 years under moronic excuse of +1 role (even tho past june mesmers and after HOT revs filled that role as good while maintaining great survivability and ability to team fight).
Meanwhile engis/scrappers got gold spooned with each patch, probably because of Grouch.
HoT didn’t do thieves any good, a lot of passives, brainless aoe and more condi spam got added. Thief can’t handle any of those well. Then some dev had the “bright” idea also to give classes that already hardcountered thief revealed on 20 sec CD /facepalm
Unless revs and scrappers get some hefty nerfs thieves will remain meh.
Yea people who are lucky enough to get teamed up with experienced players and vs teams of new players every match are extremely happy and easily say just learn to play even though most of us have been playing this for 3 years and use meta builds no way we can win with a full team of new players against a full team of high ranked experienced players . If u get on a losing streak cuz of ur horrible team matchups there’s no way you will ever win again this pvp has become a joke….
Chill is also an attrisive condition. It intentionally makes you hard to fight against the longer you are in a fight with someone because of the coolfown increase and because of the reduction in move speed it will more often force you to fight rather than retreat. For a class with relatively low mobility and low active mitigation / defence it fits. The damage from.the trait needs further toning though.
I’m sorry but that’s the biggest lie of necromancer class. We were never hard to escape from, and we will never be from what i see.
