So does d/d stealth. From blinds to group buffs. Still I’d rather not go d/d stealth in spvp due to the nerf there. They used to be, but since the nerf it has become less so. It’s really not hard to grasp. But for wvw and pve, d/d stealth is pretty active. Rather than comparing one build to another that has been nerfed in a very limited section of the game, I’d rather see better balance between the various thief builds in all aspects of the game. But just one thiefs opinion I guess hehe
dp offers interrupt, blind, gap closer, aoe stealth, stealth w/o target… that w/o traits
dd only offers dmg/slow and very crappy evade
in teamplay d/p is just more usefull (see stomp interrupts, banner interrupt, team stealth etc.)
Just MOA the Warrior with rampage, or blind him, or kite him, or port away, or strip stability and burst him.
Some matches i can´t even finish the transformation (stability striped and then CC/burst down).
can moa only if mesmer; can’t blind him if he is in zerker; port away doesn’t always work (see foefire) besides you are giving up point; stripping stab is pointless as it is reapplied
I have done pretty much all content this game has to offer, have been on countless speed runs etc. I have around 15k ap (since apprently some ppl care so much about it).
Now lately i made an alt account for NA (since my main is on EU). My alt account obviously has only 1k ap, doesn’t change my knowledge about game nor that my character is 80 and in zerker. Getting into dungeon groups w/o being instantly kicked is actually pretty hard.
I feel bad for you sad fools that think AP is everything.
Oh please, people would complain just as much – probably more – if there was no access to stealth in combat, but we were able to be perma-stealthed while running around.
Assassin’s where complained about in GW1, they didnt have stealth…
Ah, so what you’re saying is – people will complain just for the sake of complaining no matter what.
Yup…
Well mainly, it’s that they want a “fair” fight, and not being bursted in 2-3 seconds… Despite the context of that burst build…
It’s irrational to not want fights to be over in 2-3 seconds? I get the feeling that most people who play thieves/stealth classes are people who just didn’t quite make the cut in FPSs. o.O
Well… for instance the BoA assassin from GW1, while they were able to burst someone down in 3 seconds, they had about 45-60 second CD where they were completely useless and anyone with a weapon equipped could kill them. But yeah let’s just focus on the 3 second burst. (And you could mitigate it…)
And about not being good at FPSs, on the contrary… those that die to thieves probably didn’t make the cut, because they didn’t react/dodge/or at the very least move about… And would just eat backstabs
Backstabs. Eat. From stealth. But anyways.
Regardless. Sure it was “made” to tear people up then be useless. But you think that’s good design? That sounds absolutely terrible to play and play against…
actually most backstabs are pretty predictable
yesterday some thief was crying that his invis was broken or i am hacking because i could predict where he was and was killing him despite stealth
Yes ‘some’ are. But they also bait a lot of defenses and cause waste if the thief plays well and as not predictable as possible.
then just be better than them duhh, it literary comes down to mind games… and needed vs any class really
You’re really going to suggest the person WITHOUT stealth has any leverage against the invisible guy with “mind games”? Come on man… You’re just being silly now…
um yes they do
most stealth spells have a tell (see bp+hs, refuge, hide in shadows etc.) and can be interrupted
you can spam aoe
you can count stealth time and dodge in time
really the only time i have issues vs stealthed thief is when i am being focused by other players at the same time… but then it is outnumbered situation that i shouldn’t be winning anyway
Saying rampage doesn’t actually have any counter is just ignorant and inaccurate. You’re saying z-axis and blind spam doesn’t? Sigh.
And before people say Zerker stance to rampage makes it impossible to counter it, why don’t you bait out zerker stance way before he rampages? And if does reach the stage of zerk stance rampage, why don’t you abuse z-axis and jumping puzzle? Just god.
you can’t blind rampage with zerker… how would you force someone to use zerker before rampage (would you kindly use zerker before rampage please? ty)?… z-axis isn’t always a choice (see foefire) especially considering how war can throw a boulder at you that knocks you down for ages
they wanted to reduce waiting times for teams (except there are very few teams) at costs of solo players (which are majority)…. don’t think it was such a good idea…
…i see acro suffering from a meaningful nerf while other traitlines are getting buffed. Karl on stream said that behind the FG change lies the idea of “promoting skillful play”. (well it has come clear that Karl does not even know how some current traits work.. do you even thief?!?!?) i dont see how nerfing one of the highest skill cap fun to play build promotes skillful play but sure you do. #random proc promotes skillful play
you forgot crit line, that will be obsolete once changes go live~
also not so sure about high skill cap, considering sd carried a lot of bad players because all they needed was spamming any evade/dodge available while opponent had to actually sit there and aim between evades if they wanted to win vs sd
that being said i do think acro got hit pretty hard together with crit line but at least there will be one viable build… those changes are not final and i hope there will be some varierity besides DA/SA/trickery~
Oh please, people would complain just as much – probably more – if there was no access to stealth in combat, but we were able to be perma-stealthed while running around.
Assassin’s where complained about in GW1, they didnt have stealth…
Ah, so what you’re saying is – people will complain just for the sake of complaining no matter what.
Yup…
Well mainly, it’s that they want a “fair” fight, and not being bursted in 2-3 seconds… Despite the context of that burst build…
It’s irrational to not want fights to be over in 2-3 seconds? I get the feeling that most people who play thieves/stealth classes are people who just didn’t quite make the cut in FPSs. o.O
Well… for instance the BoA assassin from GW1, while they were able to burst someone down in 3 seconds, they had about 45-60 second CD where they were completely useless and anyone with a weapon equipped could kill them. But yeah let’s just focus on the 3 second burst. (And you could mitigate it…)
And about not being good at FPSs, on the contrary… those that die to thieves probably didn’t make the cut, because they didn’t react/dodge/or at the very least move about… And would just eat backstabs
Backstabs. Eat. From stealth. But anyways.
Regardless. Sure it was “made” to tear people up then be useless. But you think that’s good design? That sounds absolutely terrible to play and play against…
actually most backstabs are pretty predictable
yesterday some thief was crying that his invis was broken or i am hacking because i could predict where he was and was killing him despite stealth
Yes ‘some’ are. But they also bait a lot of defenses and cause waste if the thief plays well and as not predictable as possible.
then just be better than them duhh, it literary comes down to mind games… and needed vs any class really
i wasn’t talking just about thieves, see necro arguments above; frankly any class w/o fast swap would get destroyed; as far as i know s/d is getting pushed out of meta
what you describe for a thief change is basically warrior… and something tells me if anet did ever change thief mechanics people would still cry rivers about the class
P.S. i hate s/d and i don’t play it so don’t bring me in that argument, tnks
how matchmaking works:
your win rate <= 50% – you get decent matches
your win rate > 50% – you get worst teammates possible vs best opponents possible; the game will keep stacking odds against you untill you drop down to 50% win rate again
those changes would work for some classes and completely delete other…
also what’s up with whole complains about spamming lately, unless we are playing different game spamming gets you killedif you face any half decent enemy
Oh please, people would complain just as much – probably more – if there was no access to stealth in combat, but we were able to be perma-stealthed while running around.
Assassin’s where complained about in GW1, they didnt have stealth…
Ah, so what you’re saying is – people will complain just for the sake of complaining no matter what.
Yup…
Well mainly, it’s that they want a “fair” fight, and not being bursted in 2-3 seconds… Despite the context of that burst build…
It’s irrational to not want fights to be over in 2-3 seconds? I get the feeling that most people who play thieves/stealth classes are people who just didn’t quite make the cut in FPSs. o.O
Well… for instance the BoA assassin from GW1, while they were able to burst someone down in 3 seconds, they had about 45-60 second CD where they were completely useless and anyone with a weapon equipped could kill them. But yeah let’s just focus on the 3 second burst. (And you could mitigate it…)
And about not being good at FPSs, on the contrary… those that die to thieves probably didn’t make the cut, because they didn’t react/dodge/or at the very least move about… And would just eat backstabs
Backstabs. Eat. From stealth. But anyways.
Regardless. Sure it was “made” to tear people up then be useless. But you think that’s good design? That sounds absolutely terrible to play and play against…
actually most backstabs are pretty predictable
yesterday some thief was crying that his invis was broken or i am hacking because i could predict where he was and was killing him despite stealth
this thread reminds me on my guildmate that decided to play thief, copied metabattle build, went into match, spent pretty much entire match in downstate….yep, easy to play, no counter~
on the other hand, when ele daily came out i created dd ele (that i have 0 idea how to play), pretty much mashed my face on keyboard, somehow things died around me and i didn’t~… same goes for shoutbow~
I have account on NA and account on EU (playing from EU though) so I am looking for team or just decent players (that don’t expect me to carry them by myself _) to queue with for ranked (i hate skyhammer), maybe do tourneys in both regions~
I main thief, 3500+ games exp, top 100 on NA before farmboard patch. Have ts/mic if needed~
best designed: probably warrior, simple but effective
worst: rangers, ai based classes are never good thing and never will be any fun imo (neither for enemy nor for the user)
people need to learn to play this game really. Look what happened to turret engies nerfed to the ground killing a build completely, top players didn’t even have problems against turrets, anet should stop listening to the casual crowd.
turrets were too rewarding… it gave bad players 0 motivation to get better
i have no issues with lich form besides getting hit through the wall, because logic~
rampage is different story, as said before, too much moblity for such high dmg and literary no way to control war in rampage atm
didn’t see p/d in ages; did see quite few PU on NA, none on EU for some reason; faced bunker guardian hour ago; teamed with mm necro yesterday, we won every match; didn#t see spirit ranger since turret engi nerf
thief is still required for any team and overpowered , same as warrior and engi , but ele is already dropping out of the meta
define overpowered… thieves are not required for any team, yes they are nice to have but not required, there were tourneys that were won by teams that didn’t have neither mesmer nor thief….. but 2 eles 2 engis (see SALT/bigD team) etc.
my point was, feedback and weither we like changes or not doesn’t mean jack to anet
Since we are forced to sit in queue for 7+ min and do absolutely nothing in HotM can you at least add mystic forge back to map so we could at least make gold/clear bags… please?
OP, medi guards are hardcounter to thieves. I would avoid fighting them and go help teammates somewhere else unless you are forced to fight them (see 4 medi guards on enemy team, yes it happend to me multiple times; eff you marvin for trying to counter and camping mah alt thief, I SAW THROUGH YOUR SCHEME).
If you really have to fight them, try to kite them at begin of the fight as most medi guards usually spam their CDs trying to nuke you. If you avoided that and have still decent amount of HP left you have good chance of killing them. Best way to learn it is probably play medi guard yourself to see how they work though.
Note: this applies only to noob/average medi guards. If medi guard is one of the top players you won’t be able to beat them unless you outnumber them.
from game?
1. skyhammer
2. immob bug, getting immob mid of heartseeker and unable to use any spells is just stupid
3. soloq merged with team q
4. matchmaking system that punishes you heavily if you have above 50% win rate
5. medi guards (i main thief duhh)
6. engis (any kind, they just have too many good things; anet srsly needs to stop overbuffing them so much in hopes that class will be more popular)
7. getting shot through walls (see lich claws, engi rifle etc.) because logic
8. outfits…. wtb cool thief like armor set that doesn’t look like sack of patched leather
9. female sylvari fat leg problem that don’t allow to use any knie high boots because models weren’t fixed since launch… i mean look at those boots!!! D8
Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.
Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.
there are ways to beat his build, it is pretty much useless in competitive pvp for example… besides it is just a youtube video, obviously those contain best shots, i think it did serve it’s purpose and was fun to watch imo
Well, dire/plex don’t exist in PvP, thankfully. I do think caltrops and needle trap are underestimated in PvP, but thieves aren’t usually an on-point bruiser, so very few people run them.
that build would get smoked in competitive pvp… pvp is not built of duels, most of the time it is outnumbered fights and rotation… his build has less moblity than common thief builds and his job (condis) is done better by other classes (see engis/necros)… he would just crumble under pressure.
Idk why people freak out so much honestly, yes the build is annoying (like anything in wvw) but wvw was never supposed to be balanced (even devs admitted it) and you can always create build that counters his. Crying OP is silly, i am sure you can do similar things with classes that have high dmg utilities/F1,F2 etc.
Screaming and kicking and spitting vitriol at OP rather than willing to admit that maybe… maybe there is a certain combination of thief skills, traits and runes that might be a bit too powerful and need an adjustment.
Just wow. Thief subforum at its best.
there are ways to beat his build, it is pretty much useless in competitive pvp for example… besides it is just a youtube video, obviously those contain best shots, i think it did serve it’s purpose and was fun to watch imo
actually spamming your skills will get you killed if you face anyone decent… the system might not have mana but it does punish you by putting spells on CD… all skills are different and have different purposes; if you spam them you might not have the right spell when you need it the most
i honestly don’t see what would be the good thing about adding mana; i used to play wow which did have that system and there was literary nothing good about it
sd got plenty of dmg, the reason why it does not as much dmg as let’s say common dagger/x builds is because most sd go trickery/acro and spam evades thus losing dmg for survival duhh
topic aside, i hardly doubt there will be any major balancing changes considering specializations are comming out and traits/stats are getting reworked…
