Guild Wars 2

sephiroth.4217:

Wouldn’t Americans and EU hate it if OCX was the only valid time zone though?

Looks like you got this wrong, we don’t want to have a single valid time-zone, we want to stop the domination of times with few players.

Shilajit.9023:

there are no night capping it’s all strategy.
…

After we enjoyed this imba-strategy for 3.5years it’s time to nerf it, such that other more interesting strategies can become relevant as well.

Shilajit.9023:

if you want to stop night time point capping WORK FOR IT instead of lame excuses .

How large is your NA-night force? Our EU-night force is even in T1 less than 40 people per server. These 40 people (or not) usually do a score difference of 2k/h with PvD whereas 400 people fighting in prime are really dominate if they make 400/h.

A tenth of the people doing 5-times as much points per hour is the reality.
This is neither fair nor a lame excuse, this is bad game design.

Shilajit.9023:

many suggestions like … will drive those night layers away

If there is only the choice of either driving the 40 night-player or the 400 prime-player away, I would prefer the 400 would stay.

Shilajit.9023:

The complains about night capping are very idiotic .

Your argument “Leave me my advantage or I will leave the game” fits this better.

Shilajit.9023:

it’s all strategy , there are no such thing as “Night Capping” …

Yes night-capping is the one and only winning strategy since 3.5years. Everything else is completely irrelevant compared to night-capping. I would call this extremely boring and definitely not an anyhow interesting strategy.

It’s really time to open up space for the development of other strategies by nerfing this imba-strategy.

KayCee.4653:

we’ve not even heard of ANet even thinking about this.

Not totally true. First time I saw ANet accepting the presence and problematic of Night Capping:
""We recognize that there are areas that can be made better.
…
Hand in hand with population imbalance is scoring. The current scoring structure allows scores to run away, a problem that is compounded with night capping where it is possible for a team who has recruited players from different time zones to conquer everything in off-hours leading to one side getting ahead while most players are asleep or at work. Comebacks are difficult and it is hard to make up for that lost time that you spend on your real life needs."
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Invitational-Statement-from-John-Corpening-game-director-for-World-vs-World/first
and there was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Scoring-Discussion as 1 of the 2 mayor input for the overhaul. (The other was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Solution-to-fix-the-population-imbalance)

How extreme it is (i.e. how many CCs it absorps before it breaks) isn’t said.

What I do not like on the old stability that it is very very different per class.

Do you think gliding in home-stances is worth a single developer minute?
There are really more important things to fix.

lil devils x.6071:

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

It is only unbalanced during certain hours due to having too many servers open. Reduce the number of servers and have Temporary overflow maps in use for actual gameplay (More EBG’s, for example) during peak hours . Problem solved.

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

I do not see how you would not be able to, considering T1 NA can queue a map any time of day or night at times, and I thought there were more playing on EU servers than NA….

Maybe the total is higher, but EU has player from mostly 4 timezones UTC+0 (UK, Portugal) till UTC+3 (already Moscow), and not many see a point in getting up in THEIR night to PPT against doors.
Don’t forget: EU-night is NA-prime, why should someone fight doors in EU, when he can have the best time in NA?

Correct me, if I am wrong (wasn’t in WvW during the night for a while), but currently my server is in EU-T1 and the T1-server have around 15-40 people per team in the night in TS.

lil devils x.6071:

It is only unbalanced during certain hours due to having too many servers open. Reduce the number of servers and have Temporary overflow maps in use for actual gameplay (More EBG’s, for example) during peak hours . Problem solved.

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

Do you as a player need to now the exact rules? Maybe it’s even ood if the players do NOT know the exact rules, to prevent manipulation of the value.
Isn’t it sufficient that they are implemented, you have an idea how they work, and you as a player see the value it would give to you and the enemies. E.g. if we currently capture Outlook we would get 100pts, if we fail they get 5.

I would not say they should revert it, I would say they should further develop it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Breakbar-for-WvW-Player

I really like the idea of asymmetrical values for objectives, i.e. that the value depends on the distance and capture-likelihood.

This idea finally makes pure event-scoring possible (which is a zero-sum game with symmetrical scores, i.e. with symmetrical scores, the total score of the week is equivalent to map-possession at the end). And if we have pure event-scoring the nightcap-discussion will have an end as well.

Events that count:

• capture
• defense replaces PPT (value of the defense event depends on kills during defense, such that a distance trebbing or thief-hitting a guard do not give points)
• upgrading
• kills
• supply delivered/captured

Modifiers of the value:

• type and capture-likelihood of the objective
• distance from spawn (the further away from your spawn the more valuable for you)
• upgrade-status (the higher the upgrade, the higher the successful capture value, and the lower the successful defense-value)
• man-power distribution on the map (e.g. killing or capturing from a side that has out-manned buf doesn’t give points)
• for kills: died how often in the last time as for WEXP and local area man-power distribution (e.g. within 1500 range of the dead, the ratio is higher than 3:1 for the killer gives no points)

CC in WvW is really out of control at moment, neither stability nor stun-breaker nor condition-removal can counter it in zerg-fights anymore as the number or AoE-CC increases from week to week.

As a result of this CC increase more and more PvE-mobs get a breakbar instead of just imunity to CC.

How about adding such a breakbar (as replacement for stability) to players as well?

• the capacity of the breakbar depend on a primary attribute
• there are skills to refill it (a bit)
• it scales with the number of player in the surrounding (such that 1vs1 breakbars are sêasier to break than 50vs50 breakbars)
• ….

Reverence.6915:

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

The problem is the mentality that it matters. PPT matters jack all. It’s kitten that people come in here demanding that my time is somehow worth less (T1 NA matchup is still extremely active at NA late night/early morning, still occasionally seeing queues). Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT. Those people make WvW boring and dull for the rest of us. No loss for me.

Whow, 3 contradictions/mistakes in 5 lines, not bad.

1. You request for others PPT should not matter and complain that it makes your time less worthy to weight PPT by the number of players playing?
2. You argue that it would harm the very active T1 NA late night/early morning, but if it is active, then a weight of PPT by players playing would give it a high weight.
3. The arument is not “Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT”, but because “PPT is meaninless to most players, if it is dominated by the times with the fewest players”

Knob.6835:

Super easy night capping fix… Combine NA & EU servers… T1 NA & T8 Eu.. T2 & T7 …. And so on….. Population problem fixed…. Coverage problem fixed… Now let’s all celebrate with a drink, cheers

Any volunteers for NA server to learn german?

bye bye is correct, that is what most people already said when facing your opinion about WvW, RedBaron.

Nice picture but it is only useful for GW2, if we would not have 3 leagues (NA, EU China).

On EU-server we have over 95% from UTC+0 till UTC+3 they all have morning at the same time,

DeWolfe.2174:

Dayra.7405:

Off-time

Here’s the problem in a nut shell, that people see anything but “their time” is “off time”.

No. Off-time is simply: whenever there aren’t enough people to play all maps. I’ve heard several server have now always off-time. Game play in off-time is mostly: each team has one chunk of people, they jump over the 4 maps, are in a race of turning stuff, and rarely meat each other.

lil devils x.6071:

I offer an actual solution that works .

Unfortunately your solution doesn’t work very well with the current maps. And we all know what happens when ANet makes new maps.

But week has 7 days, so there can be a rotation, e.g. 1st off-time only green BL, 2nd only blue BL, 3rd only red BL, 4th only EB, 5th off-time only green BL, 6th only blue BL, 7th only red BL. A second (third, 4th) maps is added if 2 of the 3 server have queue on the existing maps.

Gideon.6742:

People really want the 1 or 2 extra chests for the week

Funny that you say that to me, who has a whole bunch of unclaimed boxes in the queue and not to the ones that spend a lot of nights to get them by PvD.

Offair.2563:

Then suck it up. But stop making kittenty proposals to make your time more valuable then another.

I did not made a proposal that makes my time more valuable.
I did made a proposal that makes every time equal valuable.
Whereas you seem to insist, that the value of several hundret players should be nothing compared to the value of a handful player.

Fine, you can have WvW for your handful players alone. But do not make HoT resposible for your attitude that killed WvW.

Offair.2563:

No. Just drop the ppt attitude, have fun while playing so people wont have to come with redicilous proposals to cut off other people fun…

No I will not drop that attitude. I will see what the overhaul will do. If it fixed it. Fine I will play more again. If not I finally stop as many others already did.

And if your fun is PvDing for points in the night (or why do you care?) for victory, I feel sorry for you

Ayrilana.1396:

That’s weird. I remember them always resetting with daily reset assuming you hadn’t mines them within the previous 6 hours.

So you mean they do not reset, if I mined them after 19:00 CET? That could be the reason as well.

But that would be a bit weired as well, if you mine them before 19:00 CET you can mine them every day, if you mine them after 19:00 CET, you can only mine them every 2nd day?

from again after 23h to once a day (resetting at 0:00 UTC)¨

It drives me crazy that I have to remember at which time I was there yesterday to avoid being to early today. (was “go there a bit later than yesterday to get something” before edit)

Corrected: thanks to the info of Belzebu.3912 below.

I find games more interesting, if there is a meaningful winning or loosing.

Offair.2563:

23-10-2015, the real death of WvW.

There are also several voices in the forum, saying that the death of WvW isn’t HoT (that was only the last nail, but WvW was already lying in the coffin), but that less and less people have the “PPT attitude”.

Btw.: How can someone by punished by a score-multiplier, if he doesn’t care about PPT? And how can it be punishment, to take someone the advantage he had away to make him equal?

Steelo.4597:

Yeah it would be more accurate – but then you have a system which can be influenced by players themselves – logging on and off, going afk or not, multiboxing etc. – leaves open a lot of holes for abuse / drama.

An average over all 27 (24) server over 7 days is very imune to manipulation.
If a server stays off or doubles its presence via multiboxing a whole night the multiplier will be influenced by less of a 1%
A server does that a whole week will influence it by less than 4%.
Most likely the manipulation of different servers will nullify each other.

But they main reason for bein so accurate is:
Every person from every time-zone count equally

And if a EU (NA) player goes and a OCX comes, it adapts automatically.

To easy to be good

Collect over all EU-server over all days of the week (last 7 days) how many are playing in which hour.

Set the maximum-hour to 100%, set for every other hour the percentage of players in this hours relative to the maximum hour. In each hour multiply the score with the percentage for that hour.

Manipulation save, every player counts equally whenever she plays.

Lexander.4579:

people who cap at night/morning still have to sleep at some point of the day so stop making up kittenty excuses and finally accept that its just a strategy

As you can see in the current state of WvW not many like games where the only relevant strategy is to fight doors when the others are sleeping.

Junkpile.7439:

Well 2 hour matches would be solution.

3-4 hour would be better: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Proposal-for-a-new-competive-WvW

(and yes, this proposal would also allow matches that happen when I sleep)

StormageddonBK.9842:

OMG I can’t believe someone in 1 time zone wants to kitten the rest of the world if they don’t play on ‘THEIR’ time. How selfish can someone be?!

Yes I wonder about that as well.

Why the hell do OCX or other non-prime-player need an impact multiplicand of 10-100 per player? How selfish is it to fight with no arguments against the reduction of this privilege?

Jai.3058:

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Because it makes part of the game mode useless. During the day, every effort you make is undone at night, someone ticks 400+ at night and the MU ends up totally one sided, sometimes before the weekend is over.

Deal with it, its not all about NA. North America isnt the only country in the world. Request OCX/SEA servers and it’ll be all good. But otherwise, recruit more night time players for your server.

There aren’t enough. No one would complain, if the amount of player would be equal in all time-zones. But they are not!

So the big question is: “Do you want to play a game where winning/loosing is determined when you sleep?”

No one wants this (you do not as well, as your post shows), that’s why it is bad game design to average the rating of a team over all time-zones. And one of the solutions proposed was : Time-sliced matches. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage
which should give everyone better (in the sense of more fights against people and less against doors) matches.

The other solution is mega-server as in EotM. 50 maps in NA-prime, 2 maps in OCX/SEA prime. I guess the mayor overhaul will go into this direction.

The problem of off-time-capping is so obvious:

If 5% of people (I guess it’s even much less) dominate the score, 95% of people loose interest in score. If they loose interest in score, they lost interest in winning, which sooner or later means loosing interest in the game mode and go elsewhere.

WvW is in the bad state it is, because most people have no influence on the outcome of a match

Off-time domination of PPT is one of the mayor forces that destroyed WvW (the other is man-power imbalance)

Gideon.6742:

Lets talk about morning cap…

It’s all the same, that’s why I prefer the term off-time-capping.

BlueBoy.1236:

Dayra.7405:

Noob.5908:

Again this isn’t a night capping issue its a scoring system that’s broken.

In the meantime I would go further. The scoring system would be ok, what’s wrong is the
missing adaptation of map-capacity to players

If 1000 player at primetime get maps with objectives worth 695 points than 10 player should get a map with objectives worth 10 points. Problem solved, scoring would work well. But as they get the same maps 1000 player get, each of them scores 100 times as much as an primetime player.

So if my server is losing the fight during the primetime, we can just log out of wvw and let them take that 10points tick. Take a rest, then relog during off time, flip everything, put a few ppl in each map, and have that 500points tick (since we only have few ppl in the map).

If you loose prime-time, and not login in off-time, you loose. If you do it by 10 or by 500 who cares. So where is your trick?

Anyhow, demand driven map-capacity can be determined manipulation-save by e.g. averaging over several weeks and/or teams.

BlueBoy.1236:

So kittening genius /s. You might as well tell ppl to quit wvw all together

I don’t have to tell that to anyone, they are already gone.

Noob.5908:

Again this isn’t a night capping issue its a scoring system that’s broken.

In the meantime I would go further. The scoring system would be ok, what’s wrong is the
missing adaptation of map-capacity to players

If 1000 player at primetime get maps with objectives worth 695 points than 10 player should get a map with objectives worth 10 points. Problem solved, scoring would work well. But as they get the same maps 1000 player get, each of them scores 100 times as much as an primetime player.

Talking about EU which has mostly 3 timezone, 1 outnumbering everything else by far, no idea how this apply to NA where people around the world are more common.

If 5% of people (I guess it’s even much less) dominate the score 95% of people loose interest in score. If they loose interest in score, they lost interest in winning, which sooner or later means loosing interest in the game mode.

Thats what happen to WvW.

It surprised me that it took over 3 years, it happend to me after 1 year, but I think it was unavoidable and I warned about it 2 years ago. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage

But I wonder even more about the people PvDing all night long since years. Can this be really fun? Do you feel important? Great heros? Or do you loose fun as well now that no one takes scoring serious anymore and most left the game (-mode)?

Still people defend Night-Capping with the argument “your night is another persons day” which was never true in EU.

I do not understand it, the only thing that would bring me to playing at night would be a reduction of map-cappacity, such thaat I can find and fight enemies and not only doors.

Also I wonder about the hate EotM player and posts become. Yes, EotM fights doors quite often, but Night-player do it even more.

FogLeg.9354:

Dayra.7405:

Sounds to me as the bottom 6, 9 or even 12 server:

• All player there can freely transfer to somewhere else
• ANet should either mark them as locked (new player will suffer only a bad experience, should they select such a world when they do not know what they do) or set the transfer-price to them the same as very high worlds (such that the free transfer from them cannot be exploited to switch cheap between higher worlds)
• When no one there enters WvW anymore they can be dissolved.

Well, since you want to post pointless things, here is what Anet should do to fix the population problem:

• disband all tier 1 servers and randomly spread those players between remaining servers
• never allow any transfers again after that
• new players will be forced to join lowest population server

Hm. If you compare my and your proposal you will find some remarkable differences.

• I proposed free transfers to people like Rahkylus.8097 such that they can play again as they like to play where ever they want.
• I proposed to keep all server as long as anyone enters them.
• I proposed to warn new player that have no idea what they are choosing when they enter a world where their gaming experience is seriously limited.
• I only proposed equally high transfer costs to avoid exploits.

Yes I liked that very much as well, but I think, I noticed it earlier this year, i.e. before the 26 January. It’s not the first time that the best goodies don’t make it into the release notes.

Btw. if you switch between DD and Staff, what do you think of: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Idea-A-different-kind-of-Ele

Attunement switch traits in Arcane would apply to weapon switch as well
and/or elemental weapon skills (e.g. ice bow) only available when arcane selected (not because it’s logical, but because it balances the amount of available weapon skills very well).

I like to play my Ele as Staff as well as DD ele. I would really love to play him with both weapon sets as I like to switch between long-range and close-range.

But I also see that this would be 8 skill-sets (plus zoomed weapons) which is much overpowered.

So here my idea:

• you get 2 weapon sets, but
• you get only the elemental Attunements you selected as trait.

So you may make a 3 Attunement ele, but that means no elite and no Arcane or a 2 Attunement ele with either elite or Arcane or an 1 Attunement ele with elite and arcane.

Maybe you can choose between 2 weapon sets and restricted Attunement and 1 weapon set and full Attunement.

What do you think?

Sounds to me as the bottom 6, 9 or even 12 server:

• All player there can freely transfer to somewhere else
• ANet should either mark them as locked (new player will suffer only a bad experience, should they select such a world when they do not know what they do) or set the transfer-price to them the same as very high worlds (such that the free transfer from them cannot be exploited to switch cheap between higher worlds)
• When no one there enters WvW anymore they can be dissolved.

Twinny.9304:

are there any of these type of stats available for EU?

The API doesn’t deliver them for EU.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/api/WvWvW-API/first#post5947134

I am in doubt that these numbers are correct for NA.
Deaths can only be larger than Kills, if the system also counts suicides (falling to death, dc while in combat without being hit) as deads without killer (Kills can be larger than Deads as a single kill can be credited to both other server).

Any 0 as kills or deaths is very unlikely to be true, also that T4 has 0 kills/deaths over all maps is very, very unlikely.

So if the API is that buggy, it’s impossible to draw conclusions from the numbers it delivers.

Swagger.1459:

Edge of the Mists numbers?

Unfortunately no API for EotM. You wouldn’t know which map anyway.
EDIT: See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/API:Main for all available API services.

There are 2 things that interrupt the continuation of fights
- the objective reset on capture
- the 5min invulnerability of the lord.
I think both have to go, not just 1 of them.

But for the invulnerability to go, the event-reward has to be chaned. So:
- you get only a capture reward, if you hold it for 5min afterwards.

Dayra.7405:

Then there is also a third thing. The exit button in the WvW-Dialog. This seems to be a bug to me. While the map-buttons are dimmed and are not usable during combat the exit button remains usable. I think it should be dimmed and unusable during combat like the map-switch buttons.

After 5 month finally fixed. Is it just my impression or does the WvW-bug-backlog really get shorter

From https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-January-26-2016/first#post5946360
The “Leave the Mists” button no longer functions when dead or in combat.

Loot says: equivalent to karka, not to Teq and karka is only a joke.

Shadow.3475:

And one more thing it will demand more from the servers and the clients computers to have gliders.

No, the gliding people do not have a 1-skill
So it will reduce server-load if we always have some skill-less people in the air.

DGraves.3720:

if there wasn’t a conversion of skill points to spirit shards I would have easily had enough stored up to get the specialization on three characters day 1.

So: “Extension bought, login, spend saved points, Extension done” is what you want?
Yeah I said from the beginning, they should sell HPs for Gems for those that do not want to play.

Dawdler.8521:

Dayra.7405:

Capping an objective is an PvE-event, killing or escorting a dolly is an PvE-event.

And that’s what create PvP – mobs are little more than a buffer to encourage players to come and help them fight enemy players while dollys are strategical assets that can be attacked and thus need to be defended.

Yes, I though so as well till today. But: player/server-rewards entirely scale with PvE difficulty and are completely independent of: PvP happened or not. And that’s the problem, it’s more rewarding if you avoid PvP and concentrate on the PvE-race.

How could a more PvP oriented design look like?

• less automatism e.g no automatic dollies, dollies must be hired (cost supplies, more with escorts) and asigned to a route by a player, which they repeat till killed or stopped, no automatic repair on capture doors and walls broken during the attack remain broken, walls and doors must be repaired to 50% till they block again, no automatic uprades, they must be started by player, the WP of a tower or keep is a damageable object that can be build/repaired by people with resources they carry
• no NPCs (or only when explicitly hired)
• no events and no event rewards, capture is simply: you destroyed the enemy WP and build your own, no delay in recapture, it only interrupts interesting battles.
• short ways to battle (unblockable WPs in every tower/keep, usable by the side that currently controls it wherever it is), but you can only voluntarily port from anywhere to the spawn and after a delay of X secs from the spawn to every WP under it’s side control.
• no revive of totally dead, a dead must go back to a WP under it’s side control after a X sec delay
• only your “third” produces resources you can grab or spend on upgrades, but you can plunder enemy resources, and you can carry them yourself or hired dollies to transport them

Match-Scoring and rewards purely on WEXP

• an enemy get killed with contribution from your side, your server get the WEXP he give (once! not per player that get it) as score
• a wall/door/WP get destroyed with contribution from your side, your server get the WEXP it gives (once! not per player that get it) as score
• a wall/door/WP get build/repaired by your side, your server get the WEXP it gives (once! not per player that get it) as score
• an upgrade finishes
• a hired dolly delivers it’s resources
• an enemy dolly get killed
• …

Player rewards are improved and more frequent WEXP-chests, nothing else.

If there isn’t anything left to do you do not get score anymore.

Hopefully the result is something like a permanent battle about an objective, i.e. the hour-lasting 3-way fights over SM.

DGraves.3720:

I miss when you would get skill points for leveling up. I want a Chronomancer without playing in the jungle with a Mesmer. . . Because I am really bad at Mesmer.

That is not really a problem, you can get a total of 214 unused HP from Tyria, Silverwaste, Dry Top and WvW, as soon as you have gliding 2 and Nuuhloch tunnels achieved with a char you play better you can get the missing 40 points without fighting a single mob in the new area.

I wonder, if I am the first (outside ANet) who ever noticed that, but

The basic design of WvW is not PvP, but three teams that are in a race of doing PvE-event.

Capping an objective is an PvE-event, killing or escorting a dolly is an PvE-event. The difficulty of this PvE-Event only determines the reward: player-wise (loot, karma, Exp …) as well as server-wise (points of the objective). The amount of player (defender as well as attacker) have zero influence on the reward (only on the speed of getting it, sometimes in denying). That is also the explanation why EotM had better rewards: The PvE-Events where harder (doors always upgraded, lords more difficult) and therefore are more rewarding.

The only PvP-aspect of it is: instead of PvEing faster, you can decide to disturb an enemy team to slow it down in it’s race.

This also explains why ANet never had problems with Off-Time-Capping: The PvE-Event is the same, so should be the reward.

WvW-Improvements in this sight are therefore are better i.e. more demanding and variant PvE-events. Which explains very well why the new BLs (and EotM) are as they are.

No wonder that WvW and EotM have a tendency to mutate to champ-trains, that’s what they are designwise.

Maybe WvW would be better, if we would have a more PvP-centric design.

How could a more PvP-centric design look like?