Guild Wars 2

I ran out to cursed shore to do some samples of real game combat but it took me a while to find something with sufficient hp to show the full dmg of 100hb.

Danicco.3568:

DeathPanel.8362:

You linked no such image. Maybe you should check your link before spouting off nonsense.

But I did. If it wasn’t there I would’ve edited it by now…

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/52408/nowai.jpg

Since there’s no option to “hide attachments” in the forum, you might want to check since it seems to be a bug.

Your attachment just proved your own statements totally irrelevant.

That’s a meditation build guardian which is fully traited and specced for dps and pvp, which is irrelevant to the topic, “FULL SUPPORT for dungeons”.

The build I specifically stated was the AH build, which is traited for support/utility and the contention was over the stats of the gear. (cleric vs soldier/knight vs zerk)

Also, based on your stats the characters weren’t wearing full zerk gear and when the guard did the dmg in the later panels he had 16 stacks of might. That’s only achievable via empower from staff #4 and damage from that source is not nearly as consistent as a zerk warrior.

Maybe read next time before you start spouting off contrarian nonsense at people.

Danicco.3568:

So if you think about it just a little bit, you might notice a Guardian can deal 50% of the damage of a Hundred Blades just with the auto-attack.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Zerk warriors with the correct traits gain might stacks on every crit.

I consistently hit 12k-20k damage every 100 blades with my warrior.

Even with full zerker gear and empowering might on my guard, which I ACTUALLY tested the hits come no where close to that.

Again, the main issue here is that I actually PLAYED with the actual gear setup while you are just bloviating over things in theory based on fantasies in your head.

Danicco.3568:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. I backed up my claims, you did not.

All I’ve seen so far is a bunch of nonsense from you and unsubstantiated denials of reality.

In case you didn’t noticed, I linked an image that should speak for itself, but if you didn’t understand it, I can explain it to you: Guardian’s have a higher base damage (auto-attacks) than Warriors.

You linked no such image. Maybe you should check your link before spouting off nonsense.

Astralporing.1957:

They admitted that the price was calculated high enough to make it an unreasonable option, and force people to do guild missions.

50 ectos is far from unreasonable for an ascended piece. Laurels are essentially free and the amount is limited only by time.

Danicco.3568:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong.

Extraordinary claims do in fact require extraordinary evidence but my claims were NOT extraordinary and can be easily proven.

So your claim of your Guardian dealing 1/2 or 1/3 the damage of your other professions is true, backed by your experience with all characters, and it really means you’re doing something terribly wrong.

You might be assuming I called your claim false, but I didn’t.
I said your claim is absolutely irrelevant and that you’re presenting a false argument to the discussion. I find it really bad when someone who’s asking for advice, seeking for knowledge, and he gets wrong informations from arguments based on whims.

Me, the pope, as being you, the super pro player, calling the Earth square (it’s a lie! And what me being the Pope has to do with it?) as opposed to you saying Guardians deal 1/2 or 1/3 the damage of other professions (protip: it’s a lie! And what has you having some professions at 80 do with it?).

Got it?

Wrong. I backed up my claims, you did not.

All I’ve seen so far is a bunch of nonsense from you and unsubstantiated denials of reality.

Goloith.6349:

Hey guys I’ve been running Knights (with two PVT) for WvW and FOTM on my guardian and I was wondering what the best armor/runes I should be running. So far I’ve been running Sceptor-(shield or focus)/Staff and been using my shouts to help my friends out in FOTM by taking away conditions and providing regular Aegis. Should I be using Clerics for the heal or should I just focus on staying alive with as much PVT gear?

I’ve had this Guardian for awhile and recently came back with all the bugs that are facing the Engineer so though I’d ask for some advise.

If you are going clerics then go all the way or not at all because any half measure will nerf your build and not achieve the healing you want anyway.

For PVT you should mix with knights gear to get a decent amount of crit chance. (knights gear also has higher toughness rating than pvt.)

For runes you want either runes of the soldier (for removal of a condition each time you shout, this stacks with pure of voice) or 2x sup water, 2x sup monk, 2x major sanctuary runes for max increase to boon duration.

This is assuming you are running the standard AH build. 0 0 30 30 10.

Danicco.3568:

DeathPanel.8362:

I have a full set of zerks, a full set of clerics, and a full set of soldiers/knights(half and half) for my guardian since it’s my main.

I really don’t want to spend too much time recording raw data but just to tell you I have 8 characters(one of each class) each with all exotics/ascended all specced for dungeons/wvw.

My zerk warrior, mesmer, engineer, thief, and elementalist can easily output 2x to 3x the damage my guardian can in a full zerk spec from my direct observations. (especially my zerk warrior)

I don’t intend to flame but, if I told you I’m the Pope and that I have 10 GW2 accounts with all characters full Exotics, all legendaries, inside knowledge from the devs, a Math’s degree and a 3m longsword and I say the Earth is square, would you believe me?

Wrong.

Extraordinary claims do in fact require extraordinary evidence but my claims were NOT extraordinary and can be easily proven.

For example:

Red Falcon.8257:

I’m sitting on all these essences and the bank NPC is badmouthing me with others saying I’m a clutterer, but that’s false!

Seriously is there going to be any way for us fractal lovers to use said mats outside of making rings?
Couldn’t you perhaps make amulets or earrings obtaintable, even with a crazy amount of mats like 10 shards 20 globs 30 vials etc?

I like fractals but I feel like I’m getting junk I don’t need and I would really like that I can improve my ascended gear or build new one with what I get in there, afterall 40+ frac is the hardest content out there.

Build alts and give them the extra rings.

Go do wvw with your fully updated character while waiting for new fractals content if you already have maxed alts too.

Direngrey.8376:

Today, I had gotten kicked out of my own team during a fractal. ( My own team as in I recruited the people via gw2lfg and started the dungeon )

Why did I get kicked out?

Their reason was because I had no AR ( Agony Resist ) for a daily fractal 10.

I also got reported because when I got booted, the instance closed. They angry and said I wasted their time. And that they would see to it that “Anet compensates them”

Just goes to show, only run dungeons with guildies/ real life friends.

You got unlucky with trash people. Ignore them and move on.

fotm 10 doesn’t require any AR anyway.

Aragorn Son of Arathorn.4015:

It isn’t a skill, it’s a technique. Before the Maw agony is applied, you have one or two members of the party die. Res them to 99%, trigger agony, res on receiving agony (small window). Done.

That’s a great idea. Going to have to try that.

bytes.1650:

The end of this fight is the oddest thing. I usually don’t even get hit by agony, i just get downed and defeated a split-second later.
According to my combat log, i wasn’t hit by anything, nor am i dead.
But it still happens in almost every run, while another person can stand right next to me, picking their nose and nothing happens to them.

Jade Maw hits everyone with an ultimate laser attack before he dies.

You’ll need to have a reflecting crystal in hand to survive it.

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

The damage you bring is trivial compared to damage dealing classes unless you are in full zerk spec, and even then it’s not comparable.

I would like to see some actual numbers, can you please link this data?

Reason I ask is in my testing Guards can sustain comparable damage to other classes like War and Thief. I haven’t been able to match their burst but sustained I believe we’re close, PvE wise. Now, without an accurate dps meter or combat log this is hard to verify so any actual data is needed. Without it we’re just guessing.

@OP
I’ve run with some people that do the Tank/Healer setup and what they bring to the group is at best on par with a standard setup, in most cases I think the group would be better off with both just doing damage and staying alive. With most weapons you’ll just naturally bring support to the group and your utilities, especially reflects and shouts, are great support to a group. My suggestion is go with a build you have fun playing, does good damage and keep support in mind. We have a lot of viable builds.

Yes we can heal and I’m interested in finding a high damage and healing spec but haven’t explored it yet.

Blood~

I have a full set of zerks, a full set of clerics, and a full set of soldiers/knights(half and half) for my guardian since it’s my main.

I really don’t want to spend too much time recording raw data but just to tell you I have 8 characters(one of each class) each with all exotics/ascended all specced for dungeons/wvw.

My zerk warrior, mesmer, engineer, thief, and elementalist can easily output 2x to 3x the damage my guardian can in a full zerk spec from my direct observations. (especially my zerk warrior)

For guardians:
Zerks output decent dmg and is good for quick exp dungeons, no good for wvw and high fotm.

Clerics is great for any dungeon and good for wvw only if you travel with coordinated zerg. (including especially fotm) It may not be neccessary for some of the exp dungeons since they are so easy they don’t require too much support anyway.

Soldiers/Knights is decent for both dungeons and wvw, but not as good as clerics in higher fotm.

It’s all about what you want to do and what trade off you are willing to make. Since the OP said he wanted to focus on dungeons, I recommended the full cleric setup.

Shimond.2478:

DeathPanel.8362:

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

Nobody here is advocating running around in a full zerker set nor saying that a full dps guardian is the way to go.

I’d appreciate if you read what I said instead of try to put words in my mouth and argue those.

By full support what I meant was focusing on healing/tanking ONLY and ignoring damage entirely – this is a bad idea. A balanced build is where you really shine. As good a healer as you can possibly be, people will die if they make stupid mistakes nor can you “hold agro” – you will never prop up a party’s shortcomings in that fashion like you would in other games. You need to bring SOME damage to the table or you’re just as much a liability by extending boss fights.

The damage you bring is trivial compared to damage dealing classes unless you are in full zerk spec, and even then it’s not comparable.

Survival is just as important if not more important in a majority of encounters, since dead people do 0 dps.

Most of the dmg you contribute is in terms of might stacks, team retaliation, and wall of reflection, not direct attacks in more difficult dungeons.

No one is saying you should just stand around using only support skills as a support guardian, I’m just pointing out the damage you deal is not comparable even in a so-called “balanced” build you have and the reason people invite a guard is NOT for damage.

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

DDog.4350:

DeathPanel.8362:

DDog.4350:

Now this is not a thread where i am going to whine about mesmers. I’m just going to ask you a question. I have been playing bunker for a few days now and tried several builds. I use sceptre/shield – hammer (Looks like nobody else uses it?) because i had more succes with these weapons then mace/shield – GS. I use the MASSIVE amounts of CC (on sort of low CD) to avoid damage instead of using mace 2 or GS 2 to regen. I have noticed i can survive a good amount of time against any class except for the mesmer. I lose 1v1 most of the time and sometimes i already die withing ~15 sec.

My question.
Is this normal or is this a l2 play issue for me?

Edit: putting l2p followed by issue will replace with “kitten” xD

Are you talking about wvw or spvp?

sceptor + shield / staff works pretty well for wvw if you travel with zergs.

sPvP

I’d say your current weapon setup isn’t bad for spvp.

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Hello Everyone. I’m leveling my Guardian right now and i want to ask a question. IS Full Support Spec( Boon “Buffer”, Heal, abit “Tankish”) Guardian viable for Dungeons?? I really like the way guardian works with boon etc but i am not sure if it will work well. Also if it is, whats your opinion about Weapons etc?

Full support works, but it depends on your traits and gear.

You can do the standard altruistic build (0 0 30 30 10) and add cleric’s armor on top. (Pure of voice over empowering might for condition removal since you won’t crit much)

The traits themselves will give you a decent hp boost even though your gear will not.

You can either go soldier’s runes for shout skills remove conditions or 2x superior monk, 2x superior water and 2x major rune of sanctuary for max boon increase duration. (if you have pure of voice trait already, you may opt for the max boon duration rune setup as I’ve explained.)

For skills you should do 2 shouts + signet of judgement (for retaliation)
The 2 shouts I would prefer stand your ground and hold the line. (retaliation, and regen/dmg reduction to team. With Pure of voice each time you activate a shout you change a condition on your whole team to boons.)

Elite should be renewed focus. (invulnerable emergency button/recharge your virtues)

This way you’ll have decent hp, good toughness, and max healing power.

Recommend staff / sceptor + shield

This build is exceptionally good in dungeons, and good in zergs in wvw.

Just don’t expect to 1v1 anyone, that’s all.

DDog.4350:

Now this is not a thread where i am going to whine about mesmers. I’m just going to ask you a question. I have been playing bunker for a few days now and tried several builds. I use sceptre/shield – hammer (Looks like nobody else uses it?) because i had more succes with these weapons then mace/shield – GS. I use the MASSIVE amounts of CC (on sort of low CD) to avoid damage instead of using mace 2 or GS 2 to regen. I have noticed i can survive a good amount of time against any class except for the mesmer. I lose 1v1 most of the time and sometimes i already die withing ~15 sec.

My question.
Is this normal or is this a l2 play issue for me?

Edit: putting l2p followed by issue will replace with “kitten” xD

Are you talking about wvw or spvp?

sceptor + shield / staff works pretty well for wvw if you travel with zergs.

shadowdust.2018:

Or you can have 2 members die and rez both at 99%, less room for errors.

How do you do this? Jade Maw hits everyone with lethal agony. What skills do you use to survive?

Lyndis.2584:

This is like the 100th kick I’ve gotten from a group about to run a dungeon (CoF, AC) because they saw that little paw print next to my group portrait square.

What can I do other than just scrapping my class for an obviously superior one (warrior, warrior, or a warrior) to be able to find a dungeon run when my guild is busy?

If you are kicked that often maybe you should look into your attitude, playstyle, level and/or gear rather than conclude that it was due to your class.

My ranger has yet to be kicked even once for any reason nor have I ever seen anyone in my team kicked due to their class.

Not saying it’s impossible, just saying that it’s improbable that you alone experience that many kicks solely based on class since if the issue is truly prevalent as you imply I would’ve likely experienced it already playing on my ranger.

OliverClothesOff.5142:

I was wondering if a few people could add me and help me out with the dungeon right after the main story ends. I have been trying it by myself for hours with no luck so even 1 or 2 people helping out would be greatly appreciated. If you want to help me out add me, message me or reply to this and if anyone else needs people for a dungeon or guild id be glad to help out however i can.

Try GW2LFG.com

You can find teams easily.

Look at the dungeon vendors lists, find the gear that you want, and join teams for that dungeon.

One thing though, since you are new make it clear that you are new and ask for tips on what to do.

People really despise new players who don’t say anything and end up messing up and wiping the team.

Skoteinos.4213:

How to Overcome Jade Maw Agony at Fractals 40+

---

There are three ways:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ97yrn2Z9s
________________________________________
99% Succeeded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXkae5kQCrA

It’s impossible with current AR limits.

He does something like 9 ticks at 18% each even if you have 45 AR.

It’s conceivable you can survive in downed state if you started at 100% health if you have 45-50 AR.

The guardian elite that gives you 3 sec of invul mitigate it a little bit reducing the ticks to 6.

Maybe once they create infusion recipes for all the acc slots you can get 55-60 AR, with which you can survive it.

Maestro.5376:

Ethics.4519:

Talking in caps always gets your point across better. The sooner you know the better.

Since this game was sold as catering towards casuals and probably has a higher population of casuals, I wouldn’t say they should stop ‘listening’ to them.

Edit: Ahhhhh, you’re a brony. That explains a lot.

Using a demographic to attack an individual instead of the views he has expressed is rather poor debate tactic, don’t you think? I’m kind of glad I haven’t stated my race then…

He is in fact attacking your views, using demographics as one of the pieces of evidence to support his statement.

Meanwhile, we are still waiting for you to put together this video. Since if you are correct you should be easily able to find a team and record this for everyone to see.

Ethics.4519:

DeathPanel.8362:

You are only embarassing yourself further with this nonsense.

If it’s doable as you’ve said, then providing proof should be simple. You can easily record a demo video of it happening.

Bahahaha, thank you. My thoughts exactly. I loved “Normalizing for approximate toughness values”

He’d do well writing pseudo technical jargon for future star trek movie scripts.

Maestro.5376:

Actually, let’s go ALLLL the way back to the Beta, to examine Arenanet’s original standpoint on this.

I don’t know how many of you where here for Beta, and were able to run AC Ex, but I remember the Spider Queen’s poison pools doing about 3k per tick in damage, which was basically instant death if you didn’t get out of them IMMEDIATELY. In fact, you had to actually WATCH the projectile to get out of the pools in time to avoid death, not just wait for the red circles on the ground.

Arenanet, at that time, maintained that this was the dungeon difficulty as intended, that they’d done internal playtesting, etc etc.

Honestly, they never SAID the ENTIRETY of their game was catered towards casuals, only that the majority of the content would be casual-accessible. And to that degree, they’ve delivered.

Now you are trying to dishonestly back out your assertions.

Regardless of what ANET’s claims were, it was YOUR CLAIM (on the other thread related to this) that a team of low lvls lvl 35ish can beat this dungeon POST patch.

Either pony up the evidence to support your assertions, or admit you are wrong.

You are just digging yourself a deeper hole with this nonsense.

Khairos.3890:

This whole idea is laughable.

This is proof that level 35 players can’t simply just into the fray and enjoy a dungeon. You NEED to have a group of experienced players that are outfitted in rares, and have already had experience doing AC on an 80 alt or something.

Exactly. The fact that the OP doesn’t realize this just shows how uninformed and out of touch he is.

SkyChef.5432:

DeathPanel.8362:

SkyChef.5432:

I am not going to argue w/ u. You should go to buy the same book I link in another post.

You wouldn’t be embarassing yourself so much if you actually bothered to read your own book.

I have all of his books if that makes you feel better.

Using them as paper weights instead of actually reading them is probably an oversight on your part.

SkyChef.5432:

I am not going to argue w/ u. You should go to buy the same book I link in another post.

You wouldn’t be embarassing yourself so much if you actually bothered to read your own book.

Maestro.5376:

Ethics.4519:

Maestro.5376:

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

In your OP you are trying to prove something is possible. In your example you are trying to prove something isn’t real. To prove something possible, it takes 1 piece of evidence. To prove something doesn’t exist, takes an infinite amount of evidence.

You talk about extrapolating numbers like you know what that means. I guarantee I can jump 10 feet high because one time before I got new shoes I jumped 3 feet high. You don’t believe me? It’s not my fault you can’t extrapolate.

Let me try to explain this in a way you will understand.

Prepatch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X1 Damage.
At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y1 Damage.

(Normalizing for approximate Toughness values)

Post patch:
At level 80 in AC Ex, Mob A does X2 Damage.

Assuming they haven’t changed damage scaling which is a fair assumption, we can thus:

At level 35 in AC Ex, Mob A does Y2 Damage.

It’s not that hard to do a bit of basic algebra -_-.

You are only embarassing yourself further with this nonsense.

If it’s doable as you’ve said, then providing proof should be simple. You can easily record a demo video of it happening.

SkyChef.5432:

Ethics.4519:

…
None of this matters. The issue is that this is the very first dungeon to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and how things work. You calling for “experienced” players completely negates this. How about you fraps 5 casual players who hit 35 on their first toon and want to see what a dungeon is like.

Am going to take their side on this. It’s a gauge into a difficulty of a new set up and from a very experienced ideal party point of view. My conjecture is this: from a very ideal party (with low level gears, skills & traits) only wiped couple times then the new AC is very doable to the less than ideal party of the same levels. However, if they wipe more than 5 times then the new AC is still doable but very hard for the inexperienced players. If they are wiped like 10 times or more then I think the inexperienced new players can just forget the new AC.

The number of wipes is my guesstimate which I think it’s reasonable based on my observations of many dungeons run in all dungeons w/ PUG. But your guesstimate might be different than mine, but at least it’s a check point that we agree to disagree.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

That’s like saying an Aston Martin can go 220 mph so therefore we can assume a Honda Civic Sedan can go that fast if you give it enough tries.

Until you DEMONSTRATE that an AVERAGE team mixed with newbies and experienced alts with VARYING GEAR at 35 CAN beat AC EXP everything you’re saying is just make believe and failed mental gymnastics.

Ethics.4519:

Maestro.5376:

SkyChef.5432:

Levistis.8356:

Aden Celeste.3650:

Please do this run WITHOUT wiping. Record it, screenshots wont do.

LOL, without wiping? I assure you, we will wipe once or twice. W/ the screenshots I will give a full account of the battle.

No wiping? Ha.

OK So please state the #of wipes during the run. That could be magnified 10 times w/ a less than ideal party like yours.

I’m not actually aware of a statement by Anet ANYWHERE that states that a competent-enough party should never be expected to wipe. But I suppose we’ll do our best.

None of this matters. The issue is that this is the very first dungeon to introduce new players to dungeon mechanics and how things work. You calling for “experienced” players completely negates this. How about you fraps 5 casual players who hit 35 on their first toon and want to see what a dungeon is like.

Exactly. I’ve already pointed out something similar in this guy’s other post. He has no evidence to back up his assertions and outright makes stuff up.

Maestro.5376:

SkyChef.5432:

Maestro.5376:

…
We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

http://www.amazon.com/Conjectures-Refutations-Scientific-Knowledge-Routledge/dp/0415285941/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362507458&sr=8-1&keywords=Conjecture+refutation

The book is cheaper than the game and it will definitely help you to beat Death…

There’s no need to beat someone who nobody gives credit to anyways. But it’s fun to watch him try to work his way around my counters.

What you call “counters” is more like squirming around questions and avoiding facts.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

That’s NOT evidence.

You are just basing your conclusion on something you are making up in your mind, not real testing.

We could also assume that there’s a tea kettle orbiting somewhere between Mars and the asteroid belt because it hasn’t been disproven by real testing, but we’re all kind of assuming we have brains and can make accurate conclusions based on extrapolation, yeah?

Wrong. You must demonstrate that it is true with evidence since you are making a positive claim that something exists.

Just because you don’t have the data to prove something one way or the other doesn’t mean YOU JUMP to conclusions. It means the answer is you don’t know.

But in your case it’s not a matter of you not knowing. It’s a matter of dishonesty in presenting your argument.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Um, because with a party of mixed levels (40-80), the run wasn’t a problem for any of the members post-patch? Because I have a brain and can extrapolate numbers?

That’s NOT evidence.

You are just basing your conclusion on something you are making up in your mind, not real testing.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Well I apologize for assuming that people can be actually intelligent and see that nothing’s been changed significantly since the patch and the bottlenecks are still at the same place, I guess?

No, you should apologize to everyone for your blatantly dishonest post and your continued dishonesty.

How would you know that “nothing’s been changeds significantly” if you admit yourself you haven’t done it with that setup post patch especially since the patch notes and the reality is completely contrary to what you say?

You can’t, and you are making conclusions based on no evidence yet again.

Maestro.5376:

DeathPanel.8362:

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

I mentioned that nothing had been changed significantly to warrant the outcry that has been given here. That would imply that I at least had bothered to check out the new AC before saying anything.

And what is representative of a “real” AC team? You’re still dodging the assertion, ANET’S ASSERTION, that Ex dungeons are meant for COORDINATED, EXPERIENCED PLAYERS who know what they’re doing.

You are avoiding answering for your own dishonesty.

You still haven’t answered to the fact that you made the conclusion that it’s doable both BEFORE AND AFTER the patch when in fact you didn’t do this AFTER the patch with that setup.

Lunatic.9314:

There’s a huge difference between hard and challenging. I don’t think there hard at all, as a matter of fact there quite easy. If your a bad player at judging mechanics and figuring out the pattern of the mob/boss then that make it hard for YOU and everyone else in your group… Plain and simple.

The key part you should’ve emphasized in your statement was “…and EVERYONE ELSE IN YOUR GROUP…”.

That’s exactly the point. When you make the content harder, a team is only as good as the lowest denominator and everyone suffers.

All this would promote is more so-called “elitism” and fracturing of the playerbase.

That’s how MMOs decline and die.

Maestro.5376:

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Perhaps you didn’t read my post carefully enough. THERE IS NOTHING SIGNIFICANTLY NEW ABOUT THE NEW VERSIONS THAT WOULD WARRANT THE EXTREME HIGHER AMOUNTS OF PUNISHMENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WHINING ABOUT.

I did read your post carefully. That’s why I pointed out your BLATANT DISHONESTY.

You said you only did it BEFORE the patch with that team setup and only with alts. (Meaning people already know what they are doing, which is not representative of what a real AC team is)

You then made the dishonest conclusion that it’s also doable AFTER the patch even though you made NO mention of actually doing it AFTER the patch with that same setup.

Maestro.5376:

It was doable before (And I’d run it successfully with a party of lvl 35-40s who were alts of more experienced players just for fun) and it’s still doable now. The dungeon mechanics haven’t changed so significantly that they’ll punish lvl 35s any more than they did before.

Everyone who’s saying otherwise has just been basically spoiled by exploits and shortcuts that allow you to basically do zero work for rewards. Doesn’t take much brain to Hundred Blades/Frost Bow 4 graveling burrows, but GOD FORBID someone tell you to kite gravelings through fire, because the difficulty on that…man…it’s so hard to just dodgeroll through the fire if you have gravelings chasing you.

Seriously guys. Doable before, doable now. STOP WHINING AND GIVING THE DEVS UNNECESSARY JUNK TO FILTER THROUGH WHEN THERE ARE REAL ISSUES TO FIX, like Grast not spawning his bubble properly, or having long cast times on his melee attacks.

You’ve provided NO evidence. (You said you did this run BEFORE the patch with ALTS of high lvl people, which is NOT a valid test relevant to the real situation.)

You also didn’t mention anything about doing this POST patch but decided to make that conclusion anyway.

In short, your post is wholly dishonest.

Shimond.2478:

DeathPanel.8362:

This is a game, not work. Overly punishing lazy people or those who are bad at the game doesn’t mean automatically they will get better.

It just means they will move on to a different game and decreasing player counts is the beginning of the end to any MMO.

Not necessarily, it just means the game is not for everyone like some other MMOs try to be (and fall apart for that reason). GW1 ran strong for years without compromising their integrity in how difficult the content is.

I see no reason that GW2 should be different, and it isn’t even as difficult as GW1 was.

MMOs fail because of low player counts, without exception. All that “integrity” and “difficulty” talk is nonsense.

If the number of casual, “lazy” people vastly outnumber the number of hardcore people, then the smartest business decision is going to be to cater to the former.

Derelyk.2719:

BurnWeed.5902:

The forums are not always a true indication of the majority of players.
Send Everyone an in game mail asking One Simple Question:
Ascalonian catacombs , More enjoyable pre-change Or post-change?
When the result is post-change then i will believe that i am in a minority- until then i firmly believe i feel, as do the majority of players.

I know 3 people in my guild that will answer quite simply, they don’t know.

why? because they won’t do dungeons anymore. One evening of frustration, and they consider dungeons a no go, same with fractals.

I don’t know if this is working as designed, having people not experience content. But if that’s Anet’s goal, it’s working great. AC level of difficulty as a introductory dungeon is kitten Full on kitten

If you are low lvl it’s better and faster to go exploring and doing events anyway. That’s the definition of “experiencing content”.

Lowbies flooding dungeons makes some low lvl zones deadzones and that’s bad for the game.

Velkyn.5168:

After a few days with the new AC, I realized that me and my guild are now sort of lacking a “short” dungeon to go to with our members who might either not have a high level character yet, or are only logging in with less than an hour time of time to spend on a dungeon run.
We used to end up going to the “old” AC a lot for both of these reasons, and are now missing an alternative. We are a casual guild with a lot of players who are relatively new to the game, so dungeons usually include a few wipes, which means taking a little extra time.

Yes, CoF is fast, but it is for higher levels and also it takes a while to do the event first in case it isn’t opened. HotW path1 is fine, but unfortunately only for high levels, too.
TA is fine IF the group can get past the first boss, but that’s not always a given either.

I’m wondering if other people are concerned with this as well. Personally I am ok because I usually play for a couple hours every day and I can fit anything I want to do into my play time just fine. I also love Arah for example and the fact that it is as huge as it is and takes as long as it does.

But I do miss shorter dungeons for above reasons and I am worried that the future revamps of other now “short” paths might turn out similar to the new AC and leave us with little to no options for people with less experience and less time on their hands.
How do other people see this?

Try CM. It’s low lvl, a bit harder than old AC but doable.

Shimond.2478:

I’m probably going to insult some people here (I’m really not trying to) but I feel that dungeons are too difficult for the LAZY player. Not ‘average’ not ‘new’ just someone that doesn’t want to stop a second and figure out why the standard ‘rush in and attack’ doesn’t work so well for a particular encounter.

This is a game, not work. Overly punishing lazy people or those who are bad at the game doesn’t mean automatically they will get better.

It just means they will move on to a different game and decreasing player counts is the beginning of the end to any MMO.

MithranArkanere.8957:

I had to ragequit for the first time in my life in AC story the other day.

It was amazing:

• They were deaf-mutes the whole time. They completely ignored the chat, never writing or reading anything, and just ran around following whoever was farther. And I know all of them were from my world, so they had to understand me, because Baruch is the Spanish world. No one goes there unless they actually speak Spanish.
• They Kilroed every single battle. I tried to explain the tactics for each boss to them, but instead, they ran straight to the bosses. I tried to explain the tactics during the fights, but they still ignored me.
• They didn’t move at all. I kept writing “MOVE!” “DODGE!”, and they just stood still, letting anything hit them, like Vassar’s chaos storms or Kasha’s wells.
• They didn’t revive anyone. Not even once. They had people downed right next to them, and no enemy was focused on them, yet they just let others get defeated.

After the 4th time they all got defeated and left me alone with Ralena and Vassar, I could not take it anymore, so I excused myself out.

I hope this is just an exception, not the norm.

Shouting at a pug team with all caps just pisses them off and cause them to not want to listen. (Especially useless things like “DODGE! MOVE!” Since you are just shouting without any context as to when they should do it.)

Even if they were all trash players it would be better to simply realize this in the very beginning and excuse yourself rather than wasting all your time being frustrated.

You can in general tell if a team is going to not be able to handle it in the very beginning by simply looking at their level, gear, achievement points.

Obviously a low lvl dungeon is going to have a low threshold but if you are in a team of all players 30-60 with less than 400 points in achievements then your chances are going to be near nil.

Sarcasmic.6741:

DeathPanel.8362:

This guy is a bit annoying. Daze could interrupt his heals.

Daze only interrupts his heal if all Defiant stacks are gone, just like any other cc.

If he’s Superheated he’ll Stun himself when he attempts to heal. No cc abilities needed.

The above is the same for the Dredge Mining Suit as well.

Just pointing out an example.

The whole fight is extremely boring since it’s just kiting back and forth between 2 points. (or clockwise/counterclockwise depending on people)

It’s more a test of patience instead of difficulty since if you save your endurance you can easily dodge out of the boss’s aoe rings out during each iteration.

Kiruata Motaki.1250:

Is still possible to change char in the middle of dung – when I find out, I cant make it with my choosen char -, or it will kick everybody in party? And how it is with kicking party from dung? When someone leave party or that one who started dung? Ty for answer

Do not change chars if you are the one that opened the instance. It will immediately end the instance and boot the whole team out.

No, it’s not worth it.

Hryssar.5029:

Man, I am in full knights gear. basically gemmed for it too since I am still figuring out the right build for me. The only thing I could do to survive better is go to the more tanky setup with toughness and vitality. Dolyak I think.

But even then, say we are at an champion boss in Orr. Theres times where I think I just explode. May be from all the players attacking at one area, so you get 40 people on screen, kinda tough graphic wise so it doesn’t load the one second ‘get out’ sign. I don’t know. But one hit kills should be more avoidable.

Sure I get it that most people at events would just tunnel with ranged weapons. Live entire time and be safe. But theres times that the boss isn’t even looking at me and then my near 16k health and about 2k-2.5k toughness means nothing as I lay on the ground.

Being able to avoid that attack of death would be best as you can see other players who didn’t notice die. (Yeah at times you cannot see a red circle when you have five charr in full plate armor and spell effects, pets and minions. But aside from the point)

Dungeon wise. Cannot speak there. Only did one and that was a LONG time ago. Gotta get me a nice niche for dungeoning. Specially to snag like 3 pieces of exotic gear for it. Want to look at a cleric/spirit build. Since dead dps do no dps. And when my spirits and pet can laugh at you, its all good for me.

Just need to get gold for the other parts. of the set…

If you are a guard, you should use soldier runes for the stats and condition removal.

Xionaz.7065:

I’m not trying to be a dick here but in all honesty dungeons are a pretty huge joke. I’m assuming a majority of players in GW2 have never played EQ or WoW to experience really difficult encounters. I’ve always wondered what it would be like to put GW2 players in the roles of raiders and try to accomplish bosses like 40 man 4 Horseman, Muru or 0 Hardmode Mimiron. Those fights were difficult… Not these GW2 fights…

I played EQ before even the first expansion came out. I’ve joined the mandatory hardcore raiding guilds where you have to raid 4-5 hours a night and need max lvl and at least 150+ alternate advancement levels and must be flagged for all the key dungeons to join.

I’ve done 100+ player raids before where a single mistake by one person could wipe the whole raid in seconds and undo hours of work.

Been there done that. Never want to again, and neither should anyone with any sanity or any hopes of having a social life.

GW2 is NOT EQ, and that’s one of the biggest reasons why I play it.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

(Note: I personally disagree with his reasoning, because some players simply have no access to guild missions and its rewards because smaller guilds (10 people or less) have difficulty earning enough influence to unlock the guild content, let alone completing any guild missions.)

That would be exactly why ANET decided to offer an alternate way to get these items by laurels and ectos.