While I do agree mimic is the most useful in pvp I wouldn’t call it completely useless in PvE.
There are some mobs (most notably dredge) which often use might, protection etc… and do so for quite long duration applications.
By using mimic & or Arcane Thievery in combination with signet of inspiration I can give a decent number of stacks of might & quit e long duration protection to my entire group.All that being said I do wish they would change mimic so that it could be used on any target including allies.
For instance, say you have a guardian ally who pops save yourselves. You could then immediately pop mimic on him & gain all the same boons.
Firstly, have you ever once seen a mesmer use this as their game plan? There are countless numbers of more useful utility which can achieve better results. I, for one, don’t see mesmers running mimic in any situation, even against dredge. Sure, the combo is cool in theory, but it is one of the least optimal strategies in 99%[my own made-up statistic] of PvE out of all the actual strategies of every class.
Also, I’d like to correct you: It is not more useful in PvP. It is currently viewed as weak in PvP as it is in PvE.
If your truly having trouble with ranged enemies I would suggest pucking up the traits warden’s feedback & or masterful reflection.
The later works quite well with several different traits & can cause you to reflect ranged attacks quite often.
I’m not having problems with ranged enemies. The thing I have a problem with is having underwhelming skill in the mesmer kitten nal. I brought up the ranger buff because it felt like ANet just nerfed a mesmer’s range-defense at the same time as buffing the ranger’s range-offense in order to make the ranger seem stronger. This might not have been the intent, but it was outright insulting to be nerfed for such a reason. And this is, indeed, a nerf revamp given how 10% of mesmers[made-up statistic] ran it before while maybe 0.00000001% or less[made-up statistic] run it now.
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Counter play for you / mesmer class , don’t mean counter play of equal measure for Ranged users.
all in all they weighted up the odds and made the changes , since Los and clones/illusions are counter play enough to stop LB rangers (unless they have Piercing arrows) 4second block would of been fine if the old channel of 5secs was still in effect since it Tracked for a longer amount of time.
the change was made to ether match that of the Tracking duration , and was pointed to be not worth matching so changed the effect of minic to copy boons to be more Viable vs All classes rather than just Ranged attacks of the Direct form , excluding barrage , or a warroirs LB aoe’s.
The counter play would have to be reactive or predictive, which would require some level of skill. But, that’s more of an opinion matter.
Now, your second point and last point can be rebuked in a single argument, which I will present thus: Mimic now gives neither counter play nor is useful against all classes. More so, it can be said to be useless in any situation. Also, Mimic has combos which allowed the mesmer to trigger the block himself, thus making it usable against all classes if they’re smart.
Even disregarding the ranger changes which are more of the salt than the wound, the changes to mimic were overall negative. Even if ANet had the best of intentions for the revamp, Mimic has become what I believe is the most useless skill in the game. Thus, it is only rational to buff or revamp such a skill.
The mesmer forum-goers have been talking, and we remember a certain redesign to a skill that is now just bad in all areas of the game. If you didn’t know, Mimic was a skill which gave the mesmer a 4-second block after absorbing 1 projectile. The message could then use “Echo” to fire the projectile. It is now a skill which allows one to copy all boons of the target. There are numerous problems to this… change.
Firstly, it is not usable in all areas of the game. Some might argue that this is the same for all skills. But that isn’kitten This is quite literally useless in PvE, where the NPC enemies have no boons to copy. And no, it won’t help if you just give the enemies boons.
Secondly, the given reason for this change, I believe[may be wrong] is that it was underused in PvP. Now, it is completely unused because its whole purpose, copying boons, is overlapping with a much more useful skill in the same type as it. This skill is Arcane Thievery, which both sends conditions from yourself to the enemy and takes their boons[3 to each]. A boon-strip and a condi-cleanse. Compared to that, the new Mimic is much, much more situational and thus not worth taking.
Thirdly is, most insultingly, that this change was made on the same patch as the ranger buffs. Yes, it’s a spit in the face. Maybe ANet didn’t mean it this way, but it almost feels like we mesmers were balanced around the ranger changes, nerfed for this new meta. Maybe that 4 second block would save mesmers from that rapid-fire or 1500 range pew-pew. Maybe it would open up amazing counter-play options. Point is, it’s salt in the wound that we mesmers were nerfed to make rangers even stronger.
I hope Arena Net can see this and please either explain how the current Mimic is equal to or better than the old Mimic or consider reverting it or giving it another revamp.
What put salt in the wound was the fact that mimic would be perfect in the LB ranger meta. Simply put, it seemed ANet thought Mesmers might be too strong with Mimic and all the other reflects against a ranger, so they nerfed it to something nobody needs. Therefore, they should at least give us something useful if they don’t want us to have the shield-bubble. Maybe if this current mimic could let us copy Defiance from a boss, it could be good in PvE, but right now it’s all-round bad.
Net never said anything about a majority. There’s a minority who likes it, and I agree with ANet in that it should not balance PvP around what only the majority likes. Every time I’m in que and Skyhammer is an option, at least 1 person votes for it. That’s 10%. That’s a lot, despite not being the majority.
Well said.
except the joke is they did say that in some interview that most players liked skyhammer
ANet lied. Point is that the people who like Skyhammer is around 10% of the player base, maybe, and therefor is not a minority that ANet can simply ignore. Don’t get too caught up on the details, try looking at the picture that matters.
Net never said anything about a majority. There’s a minority who likes it, and I agree with ANet in that it should not balance PvP around what only the majority likes. Every time I’m in que and Skyhammer is an option, at least 1 person votes for it. That’s 10%. That’s a lot, despite not being the majority.
Female Charr, they big and since they big they have wider range on there attacks. Also the weapons are bigger which increases range too.
Asura no good, too tiny not good range.
Think of it this way, your in a punching match, you watch to be the midget and have short arms, or you want to be the 7’ tall dude with massive arms?
Midget is never going to be able to get a hit on the tall dude because tall dude just keeps the midget’s strikes outta range but in range for his strikes the entire fight.
Edit, also the 7’ guy will land nothing but headshots and the midget will most likely be unable to even land a headshot if he could.
Makes sense. Such logic. Many wow.
preliminary must knows
what are you going to use the build for: pve, wvw
what sort of damage do you want to do: condi vs power, zerk vs tank
something that i missed
PvP. I’d probably need to find a host and act parasite on them. Probably power damage, though, since MH dagger is a power weapon that gives me some good survivability.
Courtyard trick won’t work, and here’s why: you get “nudged” (an actual condition is placed on you for a few seconds) out of the base after a few seconds (I’m assuming 20-30 seconds).
I am unsure, however, of what happens when you place a portal in base right before being nudged out and try to re-enter the base with the “nudge” buff on you.
Huh, didn’t know that. Well, that’s failed attempt #1. Looks like ANet thought that through~.
I don’t think you’ll be able to portal through base and I’m a 100% sure it’s not gonna work either way. It should be pretty clear to you that you can not premake tactics or rotations. PvP isn’t about doing set rotations or using set tactics. You’re supposed to react to what’s going on in the map and rotate accordingly to that.They all depend on a billion factors and you need to figure them out during the match. Be it a simple deathmatch game on courtyard or a conquest match. You don’t say “I’ll bust this guy and then portal out” I can give you an infinite amount of situations that this will not work in.
Not saying to not be flexible, but a little planning, tricks, or start rotation isn’t bad. On that note, I’ll edit the thread a little later to not sound so confined and more as a general strategy.
Yeah.
This isn’t going to end well.
Which part?
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A number of [OMFG] members, including myself, like to PvP. Sometimes, we form a full-mesmer team. We win some, and lose some. However, given we’re doing this more than a little, I think we can start thinking more advance-like, with game plans made for full-mesmer teams. Of course, anybody can contribute, but I think we have some unique options for strategy because of our utility. This is not meant to be a sure-way to win an entire match, but a way for teams to compensate for a mesmer’s weakness and build around a mesmer’s strengths.
One-Kill Courtyard Trick
Map: Courtyard
Quite a simple, yet ruthless trick. In the arena Courtyard, there are no other ways to get points other than killing a player. The trick here is using Portal, Timewarp[Optional, but advised], and Mass Invisibility and/or Veil[Optional, but highly advised]. Once the game starts, drop a portal entrance at the base where the enemy can’t reach you. Stay together with the team. Mass Invis everyone, then place a timewarp around the area. As quickly as you can, burst that single target down. Drop the portal exit, and go through back to the base. Once this is done, you’ll have more points than the other team. Wait out the clock, and you win.
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How about a field supporter using various utility skills to give your partner an advantage? This can be complimented by Mantra healing+Rune of Water, since it’ll proc on mantra charges every 10 seconds.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW8dl0npVtlqxMNUrNytRY6txrTv+mWqAA-TJxHAB1+EAQqMgP7PAwFBAA
It’s only theoretical, but if you used focus to act as a reflecting wall, you’ll have 5 fields to put down at your convenience, and a little burst healing. In such a way you can create a more advantageous battle field for your partner while you try to stay at safer distances.
You can also replace Mantra heal for longer lasting glamours, and chaotic dampening for BI. If you want to, you can switch Cleric stats for Magi stats and change out a sigil for a Sigil of Fire. This allows for interesting combos such as using the Fire Blast to give your team Chaos Armor. You can probably also use Valkyrie instead of Cleric since it isn’t focused on healing so much. For that same reason, you can abandon healing completely and go for survivability, perhaps Ice Runes for that Ice Nova or Mercy Runes for speedy revives.
There was one instance when I, while in an arena match, got a pop up for a second que. This forced me out of the current match. Unsure if this is common[happened only once for me], but just wanted it to be known.
True on the VS thing, but the vigor synergizes with DE for more clones. Here’s an idea, though it will require some give for the take: Take out of the 2 points from Inspiration and Illusions each, losing your condi-cleanse on shatter. Instead, you can switch out Signet of Inspiration for Disenchanter, a constant boon-condition removal which can be shattered too. You can put these points in Dueling for DE and Mantra CD.
Alternatively, you can take the points out of Inspiration to add 2 to Illusions and get Phantasmal Haste, adding to the Disenchanter’s effectiveness.
Or, a more off-bar alternative could be traiting for retaliation. The set up would be 0/2/6/4/2, keeping all your traits minus cleansing and changing MoM for Confusing Cry, and adding Retaliatory Block. This would give you a large amount of retal to share. The weakness is no cleansing.
@Nex: Thanks, I’ll take that into consideration~
@Ragnar: No, because that would be too simple~
Here’s an odd something: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdRlknpVtlqxMNcrNSphc6nNjiqykOwhEA-TJhFwAAOFAE3fAaZgEPBAA
It may not be super-effective, but I suspect it’ll be a fun build to mess around with. This is a sort of control-condition build where you try to catch your target[s] in a field, have them run out, then pull/push them back in, putting confusion on them each time. And during all this, kite them and put some phantasms on them, crippling them and hindering their movement to help your survivability.
Hello, I’m a mesmer who wants to try necro out on the side, so I’m very ignorant of your deathly and less-glamourous ways~
I was thinking of making a Necromancer Healer [No idea what sigils] that has a side of power and good bit of vitality. Was wondering if there was any precedent to a necro in the supportive role and wondering what the more experienced necros think. Is there a better build for such support out there?
Ah, and another thing I’ve been wondering: Does Plague Signet synergize with Unholy Martyr in that the signet draw conditions and give extra Life Force, or does it deactivate upon Death Shroud or just work independently? If you don’t know or it hasn’t been tested, please don’t shatter my hopes and dreams with presumptions~ Shatter them with hard, cold, necrotic facts~
Thank you for any help you can provide.
What I don’t get in this post is that it used the excuse for the nerf “the Abjured lost to it”. Sure, the Abjured are good, but this is extremely narrow sighted. Maybe they had a bad day, or maybe they lost to somebody that was actually really better than them[upstarts an all]. Maybe the necro was just built and played well in the instance it beat them. The fact that this post seemed to ignore these possibilities seems to make it an inconsequential suggestion.
Anyway, I think cele is fine since the two professions that use it are also fairly hard to play[maybe not turret engi, but y’know] in the first place. I’d say nerf the “Experimental Turrets” trait, which gives buffs passively based on the turret. In this way, the engineer gains perma-buffs and puts them on a stupid advantage. Maybe shave turrets and compensate with buffing elixirs and gadgets to become viable.
Might want to censor out those names, fellow.
I might be for “3 Seconds of Quickness on Mantra Channelling” instead of Protected Mantras to speed up mantra charging. This might create cool techniques like canceling mantra channelling to gain an on-demand quickness.
No mistake, the shatter condi build is top notch but like the only true viable bursty build that mesmers have.
This is so far from the truth. Did u mean power shatter build?
No i ment shatter condition build. Shatter power build relies mostly on the F1 & does dish out alote of dmg. As for the Shatter condition you can shatter 4 times & overall keep controle of an area.
Power Shatter is “bursty”, as you described it. It is what is called the only viable high-end PvP build used by mesmers in tournaments[and winning, at least]. Yes, it has 6 points in Illusions[+300 Condition Power], but it uses IP with Berserker stats in order to hit hard quickly, much like a thief. It focuses on coming out of nowhere and turning the tide. It also uses all the shatters, not just F1, because of various reasons regarding boon-stripping and survivability, along with the fact that it doesn’t have bad condition damage too.
Condi Shatter is currently an experimental sub-meta build, something that has the potential to be on the level of Power Shatter, but its too new of an idea to know fully how the game will react to this build. Right now, I’d say its ranked around the same as Lockdown in second place of Mesmer builds, right behind Power Shatter.
You seem newish to the forums. I say this because you seem to have come out of nowhere with these strong ideas about the mesmer profession. Thus, you might have developed these ideas in-game.
Condition mesmer has not been what we can call “viable” until now. I think, if not my previous assumption, you mistook the 4/4/0/0/6 power shatter build as a condition shatter build[though it could be] because of the 6 in Illusions.
On a side note, “Fay” is the most knowledgeable about mesmer and its numbers on the forums and in-game. Same thing with Chaos of Archangel. It would be best to not underestimate their criticism, even if you don’t blindly believe their words[which is good]. Ask questions before making assertions, or else it sounds like ignorance.
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thank you for any and all help you can offer, was getting super super bored of thief the last year and a half, this is a nice breathe of fresh air!
Off topic, but if you had said elementalist and not thief, this would have been a great pun.
I’m glad you’ve fallen in love with the mesmer. It’s the one class I truly enjoy in this game.
The only answer I have for you is the focus #4 temporal curtain secondary skill into the void: it pulls from the center but doesn’t pull to the center. So if you drop it in the middle of a group they will end up 600 units on the opposite side of the curtain. If you pull from the side of the group it’ll work better. I do pve not pvp so it’s easier for me to pull mobs against a wall than it will be for you to pull players on a point onto a phantasm.
The only thing I can think of but a pro player may think I’m wrong, is to pull to group them up, summon warden and aoe stun with mantra daze before they disperse. As I said I don’t pvp so that may not work.
Good luck with your awesome choice of profession
Somewhat right, but few problems. Firstly, he doesn’t have CS, so no AoE stun, but that’s fine.
Once you place your curtain down, preferably near yourself or where you think the enemy will go or still be, start summoning your warden. Practice your timing a bit, and a moment before you summon the iWarden use the pull. If you interrupt, they’re rooted and take a good brunt of the phantasm. If not, they’re still CC’ed for a little bit and take some of its damage.
The combo used a lot is doing the iWarden-then-Pull trick to position the enemy next to the phantasm then use iLeap+Swap to absolutely root them to the ground, and add a Blurred Frenzy in there. This will trap the target between a rock[your phantasm] and a hard place[you]. Except this rock and hard place are swinging very sharp things at him/her[gender equality].
We know a few players like Skyhammer and the majority do not.
Fixed. Run the numbers after the change and let us know the reality.
Still, even if it’s only a few, they do like it. You can’t throw them out on the curb just ‘cause they’re not the majority.
I personally don’t like Skyhammer very much[Sometimes if I use focus on my Mesmer it’s humorous], but I support ANet’s position on not ruling out the minority opinion.
I find stealth-spamming thieves to fall easily to my current Condi-Shatter. Every time they come out, I shatter on them for a good amount of torment+confusion+some other condition I happen to throw on them, burning or poison or both. With the cover condition and both burst conditions, the thief will wear down his health and be lower or at the same amount when he surfaces again. Repeat this. The strength of condition mesmer though is the defense of scepter-torch and staff, using your block or stealth or Chaos Storm.
Bleed isn’t supposed to be strong, and there are attacks which do 1 stack of bleed at a time. Bleed is supposed to be the weak condition which can be stacked easily. Sure, if you’re looking at all those skills which put 2 stacks or so on a target alone, it might not be a bad change. The problem is that bleed is part of many synergies where multiple hits will stack bleeding. Take for example Mesmer’s iDuelist+Sharp Images. This would essentially double the… wait, what am I talking about. I’m a Mesmer, why would I care? I’ll tell you why. Once you make these bleed-stacking skills and traits overpowered, the result will either be nerfs on bleed or nerfs on the traits or class, therefore why this isn’t the best of ideas.
Um… Mesmer is good because I can kill with it. I don’t feel like going into all the logic of it, but I generally kill most other classes with my mesmer. Sometimes they kill me, that happens, but I think that’s the same for everyone. So, to answer your non-question, mesmer is not as below other classes as you make it out to be. Our DPS comes from lots of skills in a short amount of time, not like spamming in way of the thief, but combo-ing[e.g. Shatter Combo]. Our survivability does not come a lot from our armor, but our avoidance of damage in the first place[e.g. stealth, evasion, distortion, some blocks]. Mesmer is slightly different in its play style in its heavy reliance on our illusion and shatter mechanics, so you may have not been playing it to its fullest potential.
On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.
I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.
Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.
I honestly can’t see it working even remotely well at all. Maim builds already have enough difficulty maintaining good damage even with DE. You have to be continuously aggressive; maintaining constant pressure through nonstop shatters and attacks. Without that constant pressure people can easily cleanse off the torment and negate almost all of your damage. Without DE you simply can’t apply that pressure, so this build would be pretty much worthless.
It might “work”. I agree with your pessimism in that it won’t be what I might call “meta”-level[Power-Shatter] or even “sub-meta”-level[Lockdown], but it might be workable, just not viable in most sPvP. But, still, might as well try it for fun, be happily surprised if it works, and understanding if it doesn’t.
Also, I’m not accusing you of being wrong, I agree with your conclusion. Just prefer a more optimistic way of seeing new things, even if they won’t give the best possible results. For all we know, RI-Maim Mesmer could be a new sub-meta way over the horizon, if they ever fix the DE barrier holding us back.
“For what purpose?” is the question that comes to mind.
Something more tanky and more condi-heavy. Currently condi-shatter with 4/4/0/0/6 is mixed with power for damage. In a pure condi set-up, the mesmer would get more survivability and offensive pressure with more of the damage and healing they’ll be getting from each shatter. No idea whether it’ll be good or how good, but it could become “viable” with a new clone-generation trait.
And I can’t speak for the build itself, but at least we’ll be able to find out if we can get those clone traits we so dearly need for diversity.
On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.
I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.
Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.
I honestly can’t see it working even remotely well at all. Maim builds already have enough difficulty maintaining good damage even with DE. You have to be continuously aggressive; maintaining constant pressure through nonstop shatters and attacks. Without that constant pressure people can easily cleanse off the torment and negate almost all of your damage. Without DE you simply can’t apply that pressure, so this build would be pretty much worthless.
It might “work”. I agree with your pessimism in that it won’t be what I might call “meta”-level[Power-Shatter] or even “sub-meta”-level[Lockdown], but it might be workable, just not viable in most sPvP. But, still, might as well try it for fun, be happily surprised if it works, and understanding if it doesn’t.
Also, I’m not accusing you of being wrong, I agree with your conclusion. Just prefer a more optimistic way of seeing new things, even if they won’t give the best possible results. For all we know, RI-Maim Mesmer could be a new sub-meta way over the horizon, if they ever fix the DE barrier holding us back.
On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.
I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.
Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.
Why not create more traits which can create clones in certain circumstances? Clone on heal[good with Mantra of Recovery], Clone on interrupt[good in Lockdown], Clone on teleport[no idea, but might be fun to play around with], and maybe even Clone on boonstrip[would create this ridiculous combo with Nullfield to create a barrage of clone-death AoEs very quickly]. These are fun alternative ways to create clones, illusions which are our profession resource for our mechanic. Putting these in different trees creates more diversity in options.
Yeah I mentioned this in the other thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-Trait-Deceptive-Evasion-swap/first#post4575064And still think that would be the best solution. Ideas, though – not much aside from one I thought of. Add one clone to all clone generating skills on every weapon if you take the cooldown trait for that weapon. Each MH weapon and Staff/GS has one.
Most people don’t take these traits because there are other options so much more appealing. This would force some serious consideration for those. Scepter and Sword are two cases where DE can easily be taken with, but still, it’s just one extra clone and don’t think it’d be OP. At the same time, you can forego DE and get a little extra clone generation that isn’t based on randomness or RnG.
EDIT: Not sure how I feel about it related to the scepter AA clone but still might OK. I was more thinking of the clone on scepter block.
Yeah, I think I stole the idea from you. Forgot who said it and was too lazy to check.
The boonstrip-clone generation was more of a joke, but maybe if it was every 3-seconds it might not be too bad.
Oh, and running 5 of any professions is also going to hurt them on matchmaking, so it’ll take them longer to find a match, and that match likely isn’t going to be a good one. We’ll probably toss them in with other cheeze comps.
Why?
I’m part of [OMFG], a mesmer guild, and we often like to play 5-Mesmer comp in tPvP because, hell, we’re mesmers and we’re just that awesome.
That’s besides the point. We don’t try to coordinate ourselves to all be cheese. We play what we like[Shatter, Condi, Lockdown, etc.] and are good at and do pretty well so long as we play well. Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?
5 mes comps are much less viable than 5 engie comps so presuming A-net knows this it’s possibly less likely to get thrown into other “cheese” comps. As for taking longer well I’m sure that’s because of MMR or the game trying to force diversity in match making.
If that were so, I wouldn’t be troubled, however from the wording and from Justin’s response, it sounds like ANet is putting “duplicate professions” in a very all-encompassing box and not differentiating by profession or build.
Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?
We reduce matchmaking score for duplicate professions, whether intentional or not. Do you think there are many others like your team?
Not really, but it somewhat peeves me. There was only one other time where I’ve seen a single-profession team[warriors]. In the profession forums, there’s a full-necro and maybe a full-ranger guild who do teams, so there are some floating about.
So, every person of the same profession reduces the matchmaking score? While I understand you might want diversity in professions, is the fact that you’re discouraging duplicate profession teams like admitting that certain “cheese” of certain professions are ridiculous en masse? Like, let’s say, the engi previously mentioned? If so, I think rather than cripple those of us of the same profession who like to join up in PvP, wouldn’t nerfs be more reasonable?
Or is it just a simple want for diversity in each? That could also be fine, but at the cost of “playing how you want to” by handicapping certain comps.
Or, if it’s something I haven’t said, can you please explain the reasoning behind this idea?
Sorry for all the assumptions and questions, but understanding the reasons behind these changes is very important for those of us it affects.
Oh, and running 5 of any professions is also going to hurt them on matchmaking, so it’ll take them longer to find a match, and that match likely isn’t going to be a good one. We’ll probably toss them in with other cheeze comps.
Why?
I’m part of [OMFG], a mesmer guild, and we often like to play 5-Mesmer comp in tPvP because, hell, we’re mesmers and we’re just that awesome.
That’s besides the point. We don’t try to coordinate ourselves to all be cheese. We play what we like[Shatter, Condi, Lockdown, etc.] and are good at and do pretty well so long as we play well. Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?
Yesterday, I was in a tPvP match and I was defending Home point[Stealth let it be decapped, but I could kill quickly if they focused too much on fighting on point] and I killed one guy, left with 20% health or so, and another guy came in and I killed him to. Not a 2v1, but 2 1v1’s back-to-back. Sadly, I don’t remember the details of this particular fight[though I remember the awesome feeling of winning], but I remember a thief asking for my build and at one point two thieves cooperating to double-burst me because neither could burst me quick enough for me to not counter alone. Simply put, Maim Mesmers are fantastic, even compared to Power Shatter. They don’t burst quickly, but they kill with a certain methodicalness which seems almost torturous if visualized.
On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.
I know there were a load of threads on this topic, but each seems to not be mentioning this solution which I believe to be the most acceptable while changing the least amount of stuff currently.
Why not create more traits which can create clones in certain circumstances? Clone on heal[good with Mantra of Recovery], Clone on interrupt[good in Lockdown], Clone on teleport[no idea, but might be fun to play around with], and maybe even Clone on boonstrip[would create this ridiculous combo with Nullfield to create a barrage of clone-death AoEs very quickly]. These are fun alternative ways to create clones, illusions which are our profession resource for our mechanic. Putting these in different trees creates more diversity in options.
Some might think “then we’ll be required to have at least one of these, then!”
Probably, yes, you’ll want one of these for builds that shatter a lot, but you’ll have 4 points you’re free to spend anywhere! You want to go all into Domination and maybe all into Chaos for a full-lockdown spec, but need clone generation? No problem, just have to choose a bit between maybe BI and SC. This might increase competition between traits, but this competition is good because it just means you’ll have more freedom of choice instead of knowing what you “have to” go into.
Thoughts on this solution?
Yes, a small sacrifice in exchange for getting rid of or reducing AFKers. Though, if their system is really much better than before, maybe you won’t be waiting for minutes from now on.
So you say, ( and Anet ) , the chance that someone will go AFK while in the queue is higher if he is actually playing the game in another part than standing in the mists while doing nothing ????
Interessting…
No, this is out of the context of ANet’s solution to AFK which simply results in having to stay in the Lobby. It is not that being in the Lobby itself prevents AFK.
The solution of having the menu pop-up to tell you to join is good. Before, people who went AFK would, after a minute or so, be dropped into the arena while AFK. The solution ANet presents stops this AFK entering of arenas, thus preventing 4v5 match-ups. The side-effect of this is that the menu could be blocked by various things in other game modes and loading screens. To prevent this, you have to be in que. Now, if they have really fixed PvP queuing so well, we might not even have minute waits. So, my thoughts are thus: I’d rather wait for a little while in the HotM[not more than 3-5 minutes] than enter a match with only 3 other people on my team, or only 4 opponents. Weigh the gain and loss, and you’ll see the solution is better than the problem.
Leaving the PvP lobby will remove you from the queue.
So, this means i have to stay in the mists until a game is found ?
If this takes some minutes i am forced to be in there waiting ?
No more joining from anywhere in the world ?
No more pve’ing / WvWing while waiting for the queue pop ?
Yes, a small sacrifice in exchange for getting rid of or reducing AFKers. Though, if their system is really much better than before, maybe you won’t be waiting for minutes from now on.
I’m with the people who posted above on this. There is no reason to disallow profession swapping. It’s a perfectly valid tactical choice to punish an enemy team which has invested too heavily in an easily-countered profession. It seems that you’ve only chosen to disable it so you could enable your MMR-by-profession feature. Well, MMR-by-profession a neat idea, but I don’t think it’s necessary. The other improvements you’ve made to matchmaking should be enough to make matchmaking better. I confess, as someone who gets slaughtered every time I try a new build (because I get matched against people who are as skilled as I’ve gotten on my main), it would be nice to be able to slum it at a lower rank when playing something new, but since you’re introducing an unranked arena, that should be enough for people like me who have only started playing a warrior last week. I don’t want this enough to want to disable profession-swapping, and I doubt many other people do either – I don’t remember anyone raising this issue on the forums, so it’s not like this is a feature that many people think is necessary.
You may be right, but we’ll wait until we have actual data to look at. If the cost of having the feature out-weight the benefits we’d definitely be willing to change it. The new systems make this sort of thing much easier to do.
That said, I think character swapping mid game should be discouraged. Does anyone have an opinion on that?
My opinion on profession swapping is that it was something of a more tactical advantage which a well-versed player could use to gain a one-up on a more skilled player. Just like strategizing where to go, who to target, and what build to use, profession swapping was something of a “brain” part of the game where the ability to utilize one’s character, the skill or “brawn”, would be the flip side to the strategy, since both are needed to win.
So while it’s good to encourage people to become more skilled, I think that those capable of learning more than one profession and using them well enough to switch mid-game or in the pre-game should be allowed to take advantage of this.
I main a mesmer and can’t really get into other professions, therefor I do not profession-swap myself during games, but I can appreciate the work one had to put into becoming good with another profession besides their main.
With all the changes to traits and weapons and such, think it’s time for another Build of the Month? I think it might do to help inspire some creativity in the community nowadays. I miss seeing all those build designs posted up and explained, kind of like a bunch of asura displaying their most recent invention, even if it turned out to be a dud.
While I’m all for diversity, I think this can be solved another way, because in this case it only reduces the problem, it does not solve it.
As another forum-goer suggested in the Mesmer Forums, it would be better to add new traits, maybe 2 or so, which provide an alternative method of clone production. Maybe “Create an extra clone when you teleport” or “Clone on Interrupt” or “Clone on Shatter Skill[so after you use a shatter you have another illusion off the bat]”. This way we don’t have to rely on a single trait and it doesn’t mess up the builds that don’t use it.
This is how the functionality always has been, no changes here.
Really? Huh, never mind then. I thought I heard that Mantra of Recovery’s charges didn’t proc Rune.
Well then, kill the thread.
Today I decided I wanted to pick a random rune and try to make a build with it for fun. What I found, however, might be a hidden buff to Mantra of Recovery[though I might have just missed this].
What I found was that any rune with an ability that says “on Heal Skill[or Healing Skill]” now procs on the Mantra of Recovery’s healing charges, meaning we can have an on-demand use of the rune’s ability every 10 seconds. This means, for example, the Rune of Adventure gives an automatic half-refill of endurance, giving us another dodge for DE. Or Rune of Water AoE healing, or Rune of Grenth AoE chilling.
Again, I just stumbled on this while experimenting so I’m not sure if this is big or new news, but since I haven’t seen anything about it I believe this might be a ninja buff?
(edited by Dondagora.9645)
I’m amazed any of you bothered to write on this topic with earnest answers..
This is clearly an ill-informed and grumpy child.
Or its a painfully obvious troll.
To save face for the Mesmer community as a whole, in the future I would suggest you all just skip over these type of topics and put attention and energy elsewhere.
We’re a community that’s sensitive to flaws. If we see anything ill-informed, we destroy it right away. If we see anything that’s mechanically broken, we test and report right away. If anyone asks earnestly about something he/she[gender equality] doesn’t know, we generously help them. Something about our collective mindset, I believe, makes us want to defend our profession against any flawed logic that might, through some random and extremely improbable cause, generate a flawed nerf.
That’s my psychoanalysis
Maybe put it as a minor trait or a adept trait, because the thing that’s hurting is having to go a complete four into Dueling. I don’t think ANet will give us it for free, though.
Keenlam is on a good track though. I think we need a clone generating trait in each, or at least 3 total, trait lines. I wouldn’t mind them all being Master Traits so long as they were appropriately placed and equally strong in context.
While my build is slightly different than messiah’s, I don’t think Maim is any inferior to Lockdown. Shatter is good at what it’s meant to do, but Condi Shatter is not inferior in potential.
would love to hear your build
i use 4,4,0,0,6 if no mesmer around or 0,4,4,0,6 or 0,4,2,2,6 if i see potential of condi pressure teamActually confused you for someone else using Maim using a different build. Ours are more similar though, here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWnsISjaWoGOoB3aGp1gQdVGTPJZAKQJbQ1A-TZRHwAIOCAILDca/BBnCAAPAAA
signet heal on shatter build- why? longer cd less health
why no MI for more clones?
and you are brave one with carrion gear !
:)
Holy- What is wrong with Carrion? Mesmer’s condi weapons are half normal damage, so it just makes sense to use. I never knew Carrion was so shunned before.
Anyway, the signet heal is because I usually have 1-2 illusions up and it heals me between my shatters or during my stealth set-ups for condi-shatter bursts. And if I’m in need of an immediate heal, I can screw the passive defense for the normal heal. It isn’t that bad with my play style. Might also be due to the fact that the clones we use are ranged, so people don’t go a lot out of their way to destroy them.
As for Mirror Images… I don’t know, just not my usual thing. I could, but I find I have enough clone generation without it. Plus I use my phantasms a good bit before I shatter them. If I had to define it, this builds more like a hybrid of condi-power and shatter-phantasm, shattering when I can but using phantasms when it’s not an inconvenience.
While my build is slightly different than messiah’s, I don’t think Maim is any inferior to Lockdown. Shatter is good at what it’s meant to do, but Condi Shatter is not inferior in potential.
would love to hear your build
i use 4,4,0,0,6 if no mesmer around or 0,4,4,0,6 or 0,4,2,2,6 if i see potential of condi pressure team
Actually confused you for someone else using Maim using a different build. Ours are more similar though, here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWnsISjaWoGOoB3aGp1gQdVGTPJZAKQJbQ1A-TZRHwAIOCAILDca/BBnCAAPAAA