Guild Wars 2

The option is still open to post your videos! I am kind of disappointed nobody has yet, as it had been surely enough time

Culling is going to be fixed and should drastically reduce the amount of time you don’t see a thief/mesmer

I love this idea, but depending on how long the skill sets lasts, changes to the CD on steal may have to be made.

Wow, thank you for anyone else who provided help for players struggling with this, especially you teamkiller. That is a highly detailed and solid description. +99999

I know it seems like a hassle guys, but it will be worth it, especially if you want to improve yourself. A lot of these tactics can be applied to other situations. Learning from your mistakes can help against other classes too!

style.6173:

I like the idea. Maybe offer the other side as well. A thief who is losing to a particular class all the time and needs some help.

Great idea! I will surely change this in the future.

Haziq.3907:

Wow thats alot , i wonder what’s gonna happen if JQ beats BG. They gonna transfer again ?

It seems to me that alot of guilds went to JQ as well.

IMO, JQ will win. They have insane weekday coverage superior to BG’s own coverage.

Oresh.4729:

nd is nine dragons or never die?

Nine dragons transferred a while back ago and Never die recently transffered

style.6173:

Doomdesire.9365:

I would like a weapon set that doesn’t have to rely on stealth to be successful, unfortunately, due to the nature of the thief and it’s squishiness, S/P is hard to work. I think the best way to buff this class to make it useful yet not “OP” is to change blind totally. It should blind for the duration of the condition, not for one hit. Of course this could already render extremely powerful builds like D/P OP, but I feel like D/P is going to be changed in the future, anyhow.

I also think the stun time on pistol whip needs a buff, or let us move while S/P is activated.

Or reduce the cast time for Pistol Whip

Personally I think the first caste time(the pistol part) is fine since you can move around and make it work, but the second cast time(when you start to swing the sword) is long enough so that at some point the enemy can just move out easily.

I would like a weapon set that doesn’t have to rely on stealth to be successful, unfortunately, due to the nature of the thief and it’s squishiness, S/P is hard to work. I think the best way to buff this class to make it useful yet not “OP” is to change blind totally. It should blind for the duration of the condition, not for one hit. Of course this could already render extremely powerful builds like D/P OP, but I feel like D/P is going to be changed in the future, anyhow.

I also think the stun time on pistol whip needs a buff, or let us move while S/P is activated.

+1

Skill will always triumphant against anything in wvw(well, minus a 1v30, but you get the point)

It’s just the level of skill needed!

Tempest Darqmane.4862:

Geez, has it really come down to this? Such great lengths have to be made to defend ourselves?

Don’t get me wrong. I commend you for your efforts.

Defend ourselves against what? I plan on making these for guardians as well, as soon as I level and fully gear him.

Churchill.8714:

NA:
AoI:
VI (Violent Impact)
WORK (The Industry)
ATAC (Applied Tactics)
ONS (Onslaught)
DR (Dragon Riders)
NeX (The Nexus)

Aussie:
MERC (Black Lion Mercenary Corps)

SEA:
ND (Never Die)

They also received Aggression[AGG]

I think FoE too, however I am not sure.

In an effort to help a lot of people who seem to have trouble with thieves both in WvW and spvp, my goal is to individually help each person on how to deal with thieves. Personally, I think the thief class is alright(minus D/P), so long as you know the counters, since the thief class is predictable and features on the rail gameplay. So, how do we get started?

1. Download a free video recording software(Xfire is great and free)
2. Next time you encounter a thief in WvW, or sPvP, record your gameplay from beginning to finish.
3. Include in your video, your hero menu along with your gear
4. Upload to youtube
5. Post a link and a description

I will then proceed to walk you through step by step possible mistakes or things you did specifically that were beneficial/detrimental and will do my best to give advice. It seems like a hassle, but it’s worth a shot!

Do not post someone else’s gameplay
Only post 1v1s with no other players interfering
The quality does not have to be high, just good enough so I can see what gear you are using
This thread is NOT to discuss if thieves are “OP” or not

Thresher.3049:

One of the things SOR hasn’t understood about BG and to some extent may not, is that this server has run the gamut of some of the toughest opponents in the entire NA matchup. We’ve gone head to head with TSYM at their peak, weathered the fury of Warmachine, faced the zombie-like hordes of early JQ and many others. We been tag teamed, blown up, sent back down to T2 and punched our way back up ‘the very hard way’ to T1 time and time again.

Anything we can’t beat, we’ll sure as hell try to outplay you and we will never stop coming at you until we have won.
Meaning, sometimes we have “BAD FIGHTS”
Sometimes like yesterday when I am looking at a map with maybe 1 or 0 assets, log on with 16 guildies, with 4 friends from other guilds in the voip, manage to scrounge up another 18-20 from another guild and we’ll set out to put points on the board.
The enemy, two servers running big zergs of 40 or 50+, in our past we’ve also looked down the barrel 70+ ones that mean your skills don’t fire off, lagged to heck and have commodore 64 era frame rates.
You think to yourself, this isn’t going to be easy, I’m probably going out to take a hit.

Do I log off? Go somewhere else where its easy?
No, this is Blackgate. You joined this server because you will fight even if its those horrible, bad fights where you don’t get a choice of where to play, who you play, or on the often distinct possibility of a dirt nap more than the enemy does. But you will do it because of combat discipline and respect of those you play with to help them out.
You will man that siege until you are dead
You will pull that crappy guard duty to watch for golem rushes and enemy feints
You will proc-swords in order to pull the enemy out of position and die in the process
You will scout zergs and tag gates alone so the enemy cannot port or be near your comrades

Blackgate, the server with an iron jaw that never stops regardless of how hard someone hits you personally because you’re a part of that play that means your server will win and know that it has always aimed for 1st.
Give us even so much of an inch and we’ll take your eff….g head off!

Like most of my guild, I’ve been here from pre-launch, hour-1 on this server, know that we will never stop, never transferred off and never shied away from anything because its ‘too hard’ or ‘might be a bad fight’. Unlike most, I was one of the first oceanics so I’ve seen stuff that’s not possible to win, but did it anyway because someone had to.

When I did log on with that one tower, it was 90% Red when I logged out 9hrs later.
If anyone cares, I will kill 22 of you, for every time you kill me.

Blackgate forever.

KnT is an awesome guild and Blackgate is an awesome server. Nobody is denying that. You guys bring the pain.

Joker.8064:

Some footage during reset vs [Choo] enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbfADrc-prc

Sorry about the early cut offs, didn’t want to show anything tactical

Good fights, hope to have many, many more!

Says you have more than 12 minutes of footage.

Shows 9 minute clips of 4-5 fights.

GG

wondo.2870:

Gene Rojo.4207:

Score Updated. 10 Superior Trebuchet. Goodluck JQ)

here’s our view trying to block the shots was like whack-a-mole!

I see your 10 superior trebuchets and raise you

3X trebuchet vs gate

JaredKincade.9761:

I’m not angry, I just refuse to sit back and let an organized lie flourish on the forums. Because it is a lie. To imply that something that happened four months ago in any way effects what happens today.

So if certain posters continue to make inaccurate statements, then they will get posts in reply.

By the way, the vid is on the way. It looks great.

We’re over that. We just don’t like how much people from some guild trash talk on the forums despite being wiped over and over.

And the fact that said guild hacked into our forums.

D/P has no hard counter, unlike X/D where you can dodge CnD.

My best advice would be to disrupt their stealth process via the use of scorpion wire(thieves guild also uses this) and a lot of chill to slow them. Then stuns if you can(thieves don’t have this, except for S/P). S/D daze should totally own the little buggers, though.

Thundar.3910:

. For the record, I don’t think SoR has any issues with BG as a whole, just one single guild.

Seconded. BG has respectable guilds. Especially KnT and HB. Nothing but pure respect for you guys. BG as a whole is a great server. We just don’t like one guild in particular though. According to some BG players I talked to, a lot of BG don’t like them either, LOL.

Vodka.3958:

Doomdesire.9365:

Scores come second. You will still win overall. It’s inevitable. SoR can’t compete.

Well your server can obviously compete since we’re in a tier together that isn’t broken like T8… Just like in boxing for example, everyone in T1 are heavyweights while the servers in T4 are lightweights. We can all knock each other out with a certain degree of equality but its about putting in that extra effort to make it through the end of the round. Saying you can’t do something is just an excuse not to try.

SoR has zero coverage Euro time and an extremely weak oceanic time. Unless we all stay up and put our lives to a stop we won’t win. Our oceanics can only do so much compared to the onslaught of BG and JQ oceanics.

The winner isn’t determined by how well you do during your primetime. It is how well you do during your offtime.

djkittiek.7694:

Oddly, scores do matter in that the objective defines the game. Bluntly put, saying score doesn’t matter is simply saying “We are strong as a group but weak as a whole”. Score matters to your opponent and they are fighting that way. You are being denied fights that are equal simply because your opponent doesn’t share your objective.

It’s really odd, I respect a lot about Choo except that statement.

Don’t get me wrong. We care about the scores, we just follow the fights more. We would rather lose and have epic fights rather than win by PvD.

A lot of you are misinformed in the fact that Choo cares about scores.

We don’t. We care about the fights. Scores come second. You will still win overall. It’s inevitable. SoR can’t compete.

JaredKincade.9761:

Pvp.2758:

spartanx.1364:

http://youtu.be/RpfV8YzrKi4

Welcome Back to Tier 1 BG! Here is some footage from last night, I just had to make an ICoa video. Props to your resilience yall kept coming out and swinging all night long.

We had to drop vendors because our bags kept filling up -.-

Hmm, how many times you wipe us without siege? None.

How many times we wipe you in open field? I honestly can’t remember.

Our video is coming. Sorry its taking so long, we had a lot more footage than 12 minutes over the eight hours of reset to edit.

You guys couldn’t even take garrison with PRX helping 2 hours into reset.

But hey, your right, you looked good for those twelve minutes. lol

Looking forward to the video, if there even is one.

Score update brought to you by choo!

So I waited in queue for quite a bit four times and got DC four times before I could reach my guild.

I am mad.

It seems to be the same people DCing, like the server hates us, while others have no DC

15 character limit

Half of choo keeps DCing trying to get into BG BL…this sucks :/

We don’t double team because double teaming is boring

jkctmc.8754:

Doom, I’ll take that deal. I eat Guardians for lunch on my Bunker Thief.

Sure. You versus me and my warrior friend. Anytime spvp(not on reset night). If you want wvw you will have to wait until i gear and level him.

Xsorus.2507:

Awe.1096:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for.

This is all fun and games as long as every single class gets a niche where they can excel. And I mean a viable niche which is often demanded. Like a WvW/sPvP roamer for thieves, sPvP point guard for elems and guardians or PvE dungeon steamrollers for warriors. If thieves were designed to wtfpwn people in small skirmishes in PvP, what was is the design principle behind engineers or rangers for example?

Specific class roles can be fun if it works well for everyone (an example of Team Fortress 2 comes to mind). But current class “balance” in GW2 is not good and the thief issue discussion is part of the debate concerning it.

My main is an engineer becouse I liked the concept of the class. But atm it serves me as just that. A “main” which waits for better times. Meanwhile I use my warrior to run dungeons, I use my guardian to farm PvE and I am leveling more classes, cant yet decide which one will be my pick for WvW but it will be either thief for stomping “noobs” or mesmer for group utility. So far I submit to this flawed design but it does not change the fact that it is flawed.

the game isn’t really designed like the way he’s suggesting, Its an excuse used in every game that’s had stealthers

“Well, Such and Such stealther is meant to be amazing in 1v1”

Completely ignoring that my Stealth can do 1vsX and do much better then other classes as well

Is that your final argument? I guess it is. I’m the sterotypical excuse guy who makes the excuse people do in other mmos. Logic.

I’ll tell you what. I’m in the process of leveling and gearing a guardian. When I’m done, how about you, versus me and my buddy, since thieves excel at 1vX, right? So surely you should have no problem against a 1v2?

Here’s a preparation tip for you: We aren’t trash pugs.

Awe.1096:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for.

This is all fun and games as long as every single class gets a niche where they can excel. And I mean a viable niche which is often demanded. Like a WvW/sPvP roamer for thieves, sPvP point guard for elems and guardians or PvE dungeon steamrollers for warriors. If thieves were designed to wtfpwn people in small skirmishes in PvP, what was is the design principle behind engineers or rangers for example?

Specific class roles can be fun if it works well for everyone (an example of Team Fortress 2 comes to mind). But current class “balance” in GW2 is not good and the thief issue discussion is part of the debate concerning it.

My main is an engineer becouse I liked the concept of the class. But atm it serves me as just that. A “main” which waits for better times. Meanwhile I use my warrior to run dungeons, I use my guardian to farm PvE and I am leveling more classes, cant yet decide which one will be my pick for WvW but it will be either thief for stomping “noobs” or mesmer for group utility. So far I submit to this flawed design but it does not change the fact that it is flawed.

The problem here is that Rangers and Engineers are exceptionally weak overall and the design behind it fails to accomplish what the classes are designed for.

Take in, for example, ranger. How many ranged rangers give you trouble? I mean, speaking from personal experience of 700+ hours in wvw, a rifle warrior gives me more trouble. But melee rangers, they excel, moreso than ranged rangers. There’s a big hypocrisy in that melee rangers are better than ranged rangers. This is a class that should have been high damage, far range that would excel at defending keeps, towers, or hanging at the back of a small group. It fails to accomplish that.

And to be honest, I don’t even know the purpose of engineer. They should have been able to repair siege, gates, walls, hold more supply, and have tons of CC.

runeblade.7514:

Warriors: PvE gods
Guardians: PvE support gods.
Thief: WvW gods. You don’t even need to be skilled to take down 5 other players. If you’re skilled, you can even take down a zerg if you want to.

Must be a bad zerg if 25 players are getting killed by a single thief.

Best overall gw2 class is the elementalist.

In WvW they can solo roam effectively, and are the most valuable professions in zerg combat
In PvE they can run mass support in dungeons and get tons of AoE. Strong overall.

Second would be guardian. Good WvW support in zergs, mediocre in roaming. Great in PvE.

I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.

If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.

Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description

“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”

Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that

A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE

^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.

If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.

I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for. If you are suggesting thieves be nerfed in 1v1s to be brought on par with every other class, then I better be seeing guardians/necro/ele/hammer warrior/confusion mesmer be brought to the same level as every other class in zerg v zerg. Then I want to see warrior be drastically nerfed in PvE to be brought on par with the other classes, which would all need balancing changes in order to be on par. Hell, lets just make a new game.

Warriors can eat up thieves if the thief makes a mistake. I play a tanky condition thief and a semi glass semi tank warrior using

Greatsword and Axe/Shield are powerful. I wouldn’t even dare face a glass cannon warrior if he is with multiple people. They dish out a lot of CCs, and if you get caught in one they will drain your health faster than any other class. Nothing is worse than getting stunned, evicerated, knocked downed, and 100B’d before you can get up. I usually pack stun breakers to help remedy it, and it works well. Just be aware

NO MISTAKES!

Versus rangers it’s pretty much roflstomp. I’ve never had trouble with a ranger…honestly. All other classes have an equal chance against me if they are skilled(I haven’t lost a 1v1 in 2 months against any class including nasty S/D thieves >_>), especially guardians. But I’ve never had trouble with a ranger…

I find it funny that melee rangers are better than ranged rangers, however.

Culling isn’t “broken” It isn’t “unfixable”

Culling is a measure purposely put in to help the systems involved in GW2. It’s a matter of optimising, not “fixing”. Once done, the devs can simply remove culling from the game. It’s not some bug or glitch. It seems like 80% of you don’t know that…Research what culling actually is before commenting on it, otherwise it just looks like blind rage.

I’d also suggest everyone complaining to see when the WvW march update hits to see how that fixes culling.

If that happened many people would buy a second copy of the game and have their little way to abuse the system >_>

Kind of a weird change, considering thieves are so weak in PvE aspect. At least this doesn’t affect S/P, which every PvE thief should be running.

Reasons why thieves are less prevalent and successful in sPvP is for a number of reasons

-Enemies tuned to small scale fights. I don’t know about you, but almost the entirety of my guild, and other guilds on my server have their builds focused around zerg fights with tons of support. They are NOT adjusted for small scale fights

-Culling is almost non existant in spvp

-Players who are more experienced in small fights. This sort of goes with my first point, but different in the fact that it has to do with skill. WvW players are not only atoned via trait for large scale fights, but by playstyle. It’s not an AoE and ranged spam between two large forces in spvp. These players single out their target and attack each other more often that WvW players, and are more experienced at doing it.

Jayne.9251:

Doomdesire.9365:

Jayne.9251:

And poof. Lol, guess that answers that question huh?

Yes it does. I received an infraction not to discuss exploits on the forums and copy and paste staff messages.

I really find it surprising that someone from Choo acts this way …. You guys have such a great rep.

I personally liked how well TC used to keep their trolls covered. What happened?

Jayne.9251:

And poof. Lol, guess that answers that question huh?

Yes it does. I received an infraction not to discuss exploits on the forums and copy and paste staff messages.

sostronk.8167:

Were we actually PvDooring or is that just more internet QQ. I haven’t played for about 9 hours and when I logged off we were around +400PPT with a zerg of about 60 SoR and 40 SoS getting around EB.

Any server that gets a 695 score is PvDooring, and every Tier 1 server has done it. JQ doing is now. SoS did it to Tier 2 a while back, SoR did it to T2 before it moved to T1. If there is any resistance, you won’t take anything. Heck, all it takes is one thief to cap a supply camp.

The only way one could achieve such an insane score is if there is no resistance left. Most people will agree with this.

IMO, 6K badges would be a good number

Tobias Steele.2071:

Doomdesire.9365:

We need a server with comparable coverage to counter balance JQ. BG, please get your butts up here.

Sorry SoS, you guys decimated WvW with your unparallel coverage for a long time, but it looks over for you.

An outsider looking in here with no knowledge of current events would see from that score update that’s we’re no worse off than you and as half our guilds have left and you outrank us, what does that say about you? Something to think about.

SoS is going down a tier, whether you like it or not, as BG is moving up. That doesn’t mean that it is a bad server, and is Tier 1 ready, but needs time to recover. That wasn’t an insult.

Burl.9567:

Thief
- Cloak and Dagger: The player can no longer use this ability stack stealth by attacking WvW walls.

Told you it was an exploit. Nobody listened. All those thieves I reported hopefully will get banned!

Major SoS guilds transferred to BG, and since SoR has zero euro coverage, JQ had no resistance.

We need a server with comparable coverage to counter balance JQ. BG, please get your butts up here.

Sorry SoS, you guys decimated WvW with your unparallel coverage for a long time, but it looks over for you.

Robot Chocken.7012:

I think if the guilds are going to transfer Kaineng would have been a better choice for them.

Now that SoS guys all migrated to BG

We have two competitive Tier 1 servers. SoR is there but it’s going to look like SBI did without the coverage. Then we will have Kain and SoS battling it out in Tier 2 with TC being there but…not actually there due to lack of coverage.

If they migrated to Kain it would help even out the fight between BG and Kain, and things would probably stay the same for longer until SoS drops out and either BG or Kain moved up. It would be pretty boring.

Now the ideal scenario is that we have 3 of the same T1 servers with the same coverage and 3 T2 servers with the same coverage.

pot.6805:

SoR got a ton of guilds just a couple weeks ago, they don’t need help. TC needs more help then SoR.

Against JQ and the new stacked BG, we need all the help we can get.

I think it’s fine.