Guild Wars 2

Tanglewood.7523:

Wow… Did you read the thread before posting fighter? I occasionally play hot join but never more then 3 games to do daily while I wait for team to log in. I am fully aware hot join is a load if rubbish and does not reflect the tpvp game type at all. All if my comments and opinions where based on playing a large amount of tpvp with a 5 man team on ts. So that is why I’m talking about esports. Hot join is rubbish and does not help new players learn about tpvp at all and I do go with the not uncommon opinion that it should be removed.

Please people read first then type….

Sorry, but mentioning 3 thieves in a setup should be good… Means you’re not competitive enough to talk about e-sports. Still I apprectiate you’re not a 24/7 hotjoiner. You earned some respect.

Obviously you have no idea how to play this class or you play hotjoin.

Another topic from a all-day-hotjoin-player who has actually no clue about competitive pvp. Why you even mention e-sports then?

A bunker isn’t sitting on the same node the whole match. He rotates to places where teamfights are happening to support. If you look at temple and spirit watch you will also see that bunkers tend to leave nodes often, as buffs/orbs are very important.

Agree. In PvP you should have always the overwiev of the whole team.

The balance isn’t weak, it just needs some little changes. If it would be weak you would seen things like 5 eles. But no, you see 4 to 5 different classes in every setup. Mabye in hotjoin you see 5 thieves in a team but don’t consider it as PvP.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Are you serious? Watch these ranks and now tell me again, are you serious???
That’s like saying, I’m skilled because I reach 300 points in hotjoin. Play against real players and then tell me again how easy it is to gain points on bunkering a node.

hotjoin huh?ranks?real players? sorry mr elitist ,i’m just showing the OP that killing a person at a self defended cap points gives 15 points in total,5 for kill,10 for defending at cap point. This is with regards to the OP saying bunkers not getting much rank points.

What I want to point out is that against ppl that have an idea how pvp works and have experience won’t just run in allone and die. They will regroup and push in together to stomp you or just go on the other node where the bunker isn’t standing.

If you have too much powder you can grab converters and craft with lower materials (like orbs and crystals), higher ones like slivers.

Passive points are a fine in tpvp. Shouldn’t be implented in hotjoin, so instead of zerging you can go afk drink a coffee and still get points.

We have allrdy enough topics about “how mesmers are op” and other fancy stuff hotjoin players post here. So to summarize, we need more incentive to play.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Are you serious? Watch these ranks and now tell me again, are you serious???
That’s like saying, I’m skilled because I reach 300 points in hotjoin. Play against real players and then tell me again how easy it is to gain points on bunkering a node.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Battosai.5620:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Battosai.5620:

why are you people only considering trap rangers? it’s just not as good, it’s subpar and get’s easily countered.
furthermore a ranger shouldn’t lose a 1v1 against a dps guard – but then again keep playing trap ranger till you figure out how to abuse the only 2 really viable trait lines ranger has.
oh and on a sidenote – nobody is playing any class to it’s full potential (yet), there’s just no reason to, people might have done the theory crafting for it but why bother trying hard, when the current state of the game really doesn’t take much “skill” to be on top.
but keep the arguments coming, they’re at least fun to read.

i am only using the best builds now with my numbers because they are the best builds. there is no point for to take into account a worse build because when you get to high lvl play there is no reason not to give yourself every advantage.

i honestly do feel i am using mesmer to the full potential it has. every new role i want to make it i have different builds but for the optimal play from the mesmer it really falls short. i belieave im the best mesmer in the game but to be humble i will just say top 3. but i go 100% hard every game rather its against pugs or premades it dont matter to me.

but that goes to my saying karl needs to somehow get the top 3 of each class and test numbers in a full potential environment so we can correctly balance this game.

trap ranger is not the best build. do you seriously believe that?

yes i believe facts. vinhungry ran a awesome bunkery build were he could come to pressure home point and do crazy dmg with pet and not taking dmg. that build is good but doesnt bring the time efficency with taking points nuetralizing or dmg per second that the vyndetta type trap ranger brings. but all the other ranger builds dont compare.

You can’t compare NA with EU. There are different playstyles etc.
As I see the effectiveness of the BM ranger and compare it to a trap ranger, the trap ranger isn’t that flexible. Also more squishier and easier to get. In EU you won’t see trap-rangers becuase there not viable enough to play. But that’s just MY opinion.

Diagramms are really interesting. Only thing confused me is that ppl are pretty happy about the actual balance situation and in the same time Balancing the game is priority…
GJ anyway for doing A-Nets job.

The question is if a ranger can get to far before the defending player cap it. If there is another player, for example a necro, who slows you out then i doubt you will reach the point before capping. With the ele this problem doesn’t exist. (rtl, blink, stability, instant condi remove) Second things are invis-spikes as lot of thieves put a shadow refuge with another player to get you instantly from stealth. The ranger will have a hard time. The ele just put mist form and he’s fine. That’s why the ele is over the top. (pls no argues about bm-ranger and his dmg).
About guardian we don’t have to discuss I think. You have no mobility and 2 dps will get you sooner or later, without any chance of getting out. The knock-back is not really a guarantee though.

Wow, so the player you stomped will have 15 sec respawn + time to get to middle. So about 30 secs you have a 3v2 advantage. Gl when third is coming and they stomp you with timewarp…cuz obviously you wasted it before. I don’t get this tactic, you should try it without timwarp mabye

The Class-Ratings are well made. Comes really near to my opinion. Well a 3 for warrior is a bit hard, though he has Battle-Standard, is the best class against downed ppl (100b, whirlwind = nearly impossible to get a person up) and brings generally some great dmg input to teamfights. The things is timing and know when to retreat. Also a warrior can’t be left allone, but as roam support it can work out pretty good.

Ranger 9/10 in the aspect of a 1v1 or 2v2 he’s pretty effective, also roots are destroying. If it comes to bigger teamfights like 4v4 mid-fights then he looses against other classes its value due to nearly no dmg and bleeding remove through different classes (e.g. guardian; ele). Prolly would set him to an 8/10.

Oh god, we had the same thing a week ago.

It teaches you at least how the map looks like and where the nodes are, or that you need 500 points to win etc. Just Basics, like in GW1 where for you also had to unlock TA with random-arenas first.

No worries, they are informed about this issue and will fix it soon.

Archaon.6245:

Defending our side point with mesmer, ele crossed…brought him to “almost down” 4 times….and every time he just mist form> rtl away, rufulled and started all over again…at the end i had to call our war to wait for that kittener outside henge and bring him finally down cause i couldn’t leave the point (With portal) to go help somewhere else, and i was “just a bit” kitten off since he kept coming back full life in seconds after running away like a dam rabbit to avoid being downed once and for all….mesmer’s mobility compared to ele’s…you know….

He was like r25 or something…he was plain crap since i could esily beat the kitten out of him while being almost full hp…but he managed to contest our point for minutes due to that stupid rtl allowing him to “Oh kitten button” run away and going back full, what I was supposed to do? Leaving a portal on point just to chase a stupid ele? Because you know, without portal if i leave the point he can easily go back to it to decap even before i can cover half the distance i made trying to get him to finish him off…having to call out backup just to get a kittening r20 ele able to do nothing but running away while dieing, heal up and come back just for gettin his kitten owned again doesn’t sound legit to me…am i wrong?

As long as you capped the node the ele is useless for the team, trying to get it.

What brings you balance without incentive to play? you mean just because the meta changes ppl will come back, and play the same mode over again for 6 months?
Prolly not

Boon-Hate is an obvious counter-reaction to the famous bunker-ele build. The problem the devs didn’t realize is that other proffessions are also affected by this (guardian mentioned) Would be so much easier to decrease heal or boon-duration on ele.
Mabye bunkers start to play with symbols again, instead of shouts.
kitteno

-In 1v1 and alone-roaming they’re the worst class.
-In teamfights pretty good. Take banner (aoe rezz + boons), GS good AoE dmg. played with sword you have good immobilize (best condition in pvp), some sort of mobility.

Never let the warrior roam alone and he is pretty effective.

Exactly. More different builds will come with different modes. Balance is pretty important, don’t get me wrong here, but in the actual sotg it wouln’t be good spending alot of time with balancing issues. This would result in a lack of time for other really really important things. Balance gets important if a game is some sort of complete (gw2 obviously not).

you can compare the actual state of sPvP with a raw diamond. The problem we see here is, end users buy polished diamonds framed in gold rings and necklaces. Noone would ever buy a raw diamond. So now what the most ppl do is waiting till polisher akka programmer start getting out a value for the customers. Till then this game will be quite empty, sadly…

Please stop with these balance issues.
- They have more other priorities to handle than balance (see all 100 threads about incentive and suggestions)
- They said in sotg they won’t seperate skillz to only PvP / only PvE.
Means it’s even harder to balance for 2 absolutely different gameplays.

Balance won’t bring players back. So balance without ppl is worthless to achieve.

Lady Sara Goldheart.2764:

The most knowledgeable and experienced players should give feedback.
Facts or coherences should also not be twisted by those for selfish reasons.
As it has been made clear before that Conquest will be the competitive game-mode as long as the developers do not change that, the competitive players playing that mode have the highest chances to give proper feedback for now considering their broad experience and knowledge. I do agree though, top players should not be the only ones to give feedback but if this game should be more competitive than it is now, it has to be balanced around the highest level of play.
Also, people have to deal with the fact that some stuff ain’t easy and has to be learned. So there is no excuse for dumbing down the game. There should be more opportunities to learn and improve. Custom servers may help a lot once they are out.

But what I find most important besides that is that we have PvE and PvP seperate skill-wise as it used to be in GW1. Some balance-changes cannot be made as it would influence PvE heavily. The best example is the warrior.
Alternatively more skills can be seperate.

Agree. As on a high-level the classes show their full potential. Best example is thief in hotjoin, considered to be op by instant-kills. If it comes to tpvp they’re chances aren’t that great due to instant rezzing, aoe and focusing on gc’s akka thieves.

If you go full glass-canon your marks can crit till 7k, if you go balanced with def specs you still can destroy in teamfights, especially with wells. Besides that you have lot of different conditions, aoe rezz signet and plague + deathshroud, makes you really survivable. If you need mobility or combat-leavers take worm with you. The fact that necro has not only one viable build makes that class even viabler.
If you give a necro more mobility i think this would be too strong.

Mesmer is pretty good balanced. The only thing that peaks out is time-warp, it’s just deciding a teamfight if set right. Reduce its CD and reduce quickness from 100% faster movement to 50% or smthin like that.

LordByron.8369:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

LordByron.8369:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Elementalist in PvP = Best Class
Elementalist in PvE = not bad, but there are better classes

You see it’s hard to balance the class for A-Net.

do you really have to jump in every thread to say “nerf ele”?

COnsidering you play a mesmer its quite funny you ask to nerf other classes…..

I’m playing guardian and never every played one single game with a mesmer. And I didn’t even said nerf ele. I said it’s hard to balance it for PvP and PvE together. Don’t interpret stuff and read carefully. Thanks

don t make me link your post…
Also if you play a guardian you cannot lose to an ele unless you are playing that “debatable” (insert any kitten word there) new spvp mode in wich running is OP or other weird modes.

Your post does not make any sense to me. What are you trying to say?

LordByron.8369:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Elementalist in PvP = Best Class
Elementalist in PvE = not bad, but there are better classes

You see it’s hard to balance the class for A-Net.

do you really have to jump in every thread to say “nerf ele”?

COnsidering you play a mesmer its quite funny you ask to nerf other classes…..

I’m playing guardian and never every played one single game with a mesmer. And I didn’t even said nerf ele. I said it’s hard to balance it for PvP and PvE together. Don’t interpret stuff and read carefully. Thanks

Mabye it provided bad play, but in 3v3 you are more outstanding in terms of skill than in a 8v8 zerg fest. As in GW1 the mode was a big success, and the incentive to play it was high due to the rank-system. Please don’t compare hotjoin with RA.

Xeph.4513:

milo.6942:

i don’t think it’s all karl’s fault. again, consider they’ve no data collection systems, and no resources from anet to get it. certainly, he seems to not know what’s going on, but lay the blame at the feet of the people responsible, and not just the only people we interact with.

I agree, it also could’ve been the fact that Karl could’ve possibly been nervous he is only human, and it could happen to anyone; I know that in my life I have had those blank out periods.
Anyways all I can say is, I was very grateful to the devs for the experience and their patients.

Ye sure, Karl is just not as talented as Jon in speaking to people. But for public interviews you need ppl who are good in talking and have not “uhmmm” as every second word.

As many ppl mentioned, they have no clue about competitive pvp. Otherwise they wouldn’t say eles don’t need restrictions in healing or talking about minion-masters. Especially Karl: had no idea, didn’t even know if turrets are blasts or not. If they want to improve the balance issues around classes, then mabye just ask top-players about it. They have much more experience than the devs, while playing on private-test-servers with joke-builds nobody has ever played.

I’d be glad if we could be as quite as your team is. The crippling clone is harder to dodge and works in my expierence at least only when you have a distance to the mesmer. As I play guard-bunker obviously not

Archaon.6245:

definately this. If you learn how to dodge a shatter (You can do also by hearing the leap sound) you just learned how to counter a mesmer…yup i know coming on forums crying is way more easy than actually learn something…but come on, it’s not so hard…and…leave hotjoin already…no joke, just leave and l2p your class properly..

Hearing the leap sound is also a solution, but in tpvp actually hard as ppl constantly speaking.

You missspelled “overpowered”.
No other class can stack might up for the whole team so easily than an ele.
Through constant boon sharing you have alot of support for the team too, not to mention the water heals. You have a high survivability if playing alone, while you still have a nice movement and viable dmg. Actually pretty good in some fractals.
Sure you have not high-bursts like other classes have. But still you got a lot of aoe.

20 in air is not in any way usefull. I would even change 10 from air to earth, to get more survivability and armor of earth at 50% health. The damage won’t really change.

Elementalist in PvP = Best Class
Elementalist in PvE = not bad, but there are better classes

You see it’s hard to balance the class for A-Net.

guza.6170:

turn your sarcasm radar on man

was obvious.
Otherwise I would give you the address of an asylum

milo.6942:

hey, while we’re on the topic of builds, I’m looking for a trustworthy website resource on pvp and pve builds. googling for gw2 builds seems to give many outdated results (often from beta periods). there are many builds scattered on youtube as well. is there 1 site in particular that has a good collection?

http://www.teamparadigm.net/guides

Here are some (older) builds explained. Not all classes but a good start.

If you need some tipps and help with this class, you can pm me ingame. I will be online from 18:00 gmt till 22:00 gmt.

SmoothHussler.6387:

Jax.5261:

IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE BURST, LEARN TO DODGE.
If you don’t know how to dodge properly you deserve to have a hard time. If there was no dodging in this game it would be completely different, but there is, so it isn’t.

Whoa there partner. Thieves are the only class which can spam their highest dps attacks more than once every so often. There are only 2 dodges. You’re angry post has a problem of economy here do you see it?

As for me, either Anet will fix this problem, or pvp will die on the vine in this game. There are simply 2 classes which dominate the landscape (yes hotjoin, what the majority of people are playing…dont act all elitist as tournament games are ghost towns moreso than hotjoin).

People can defend decisions till their blue in the face, it wont change the fact that mesmers and thieves are horribly balanced vis a vis other classes in pvp.

This problem appears only because hotjoin is a broken-mode which provides an overload of these classes. It’s still easy to handle them there due to the lower skill-level of players.

Ye, you’re right.
Still I think 5 different classes will be better in any way (except elementalists), due to the different abilites. And well, we play on many maps 2 guardians (bunker, dps). With this rule we would be restricted in build variation.
A really difficult topic.

Zinwrath.2049:

league of legends dominion point system is far from perfect but its a similiar “ticket” “hold point” style game.

It gives you points for standing on the cap point periodicly, that way if you are gaurding a point…instead of r unning around mindlessly killing where you may not see as much action…your still getting points. Also, kills on or NEAR a point in dominion is worth more points, and dieng on a cap point merits some points.

This helps rewards people for fighting on points instead of wondering aimlessly, and for defending points. Its still not a perfect system, but…its better than gw2, and ironicly has been around and had this point system for about a year longer :P

This will not change the zerging mentality. As now they will zerg on cap-points instead of fighting in savage areas.

Put in 0/10/0/30/30, flame-sword as elite. Together with a mesmer and timewarp.
You actually never die and do viable dmg while stacking might for the whole team.

Besides the Elementalist, for me personally, I see no other class that would make sense to have 2 of them. And elementalist is just working that good because of broken trait-lines.

It’s the rewarding system that forces you into zerging and not winning the game by capping/defending nodes. As zerging obviously gives you more points, why should ppl stay on a point to defend it?
If you bored of this non-sense then i recommend to find a guild/other players to form a team and get into tpvp

Sorry to say that but the game in the aspect of PvP is balanced around tPvP. And tbh, the thief is one of the worst classes in 1v1. If you don’t expect him then mabye he’ll get you. Otherwise he has no chance. And now keep playing hotjoin or WvW and stop bringing up arguments without any knowledge of these classes.

If actually experienced players and not hotjoin/WvW kids would answer, this thread would be so smaller. Why? Because ppl would agree that in tPvP (and this is the mode where A-Net is balancing the classes) a thief is one of the most difficult classes to play, also good players know how to dodge the dmg of a mesmer easily. As a mesmer you face most of the time eles. Telling me you don’t need any skill for these both classes is just lack of experience in real competition.