All is vain.
I got totally rolled lol.
It’s funny because I have never been rolled so much in WvW before. The people in that game run some serious 1v1 builds and it figures that my WvW build is no match but still….extremely humbling.
Do you guys play in those games sometimes? How do you do?
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Have ANY of you faced that new stunlock warrior build? Mace Shield and Hammer/GS? Ironically I have one stun break in PvP most of the time (SS, I really wish steal was a stunbreaker sometimes) so the only way I can kill them is to abuse my pistol blinds, or you will be CC’d into next year, it’s not even funny.
That’s hardly a new build lol. I complained about them a month ago.
So I would guess that everyone has faced them by now. Especially considering that it’s their current meta build.
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Signet of malice is decent in PvE, but could use some buffs to bring it up to par with other god-tier healing skills like healing signet.
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For me I’ve always played with it off. But I can see why someone would want to have this on.
On the warrior, I prefer fast cast on because it helps to be able to use abilities such as whirlwind attack and combustive shot instantly.
Discuss.
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Just had a game with 2 warriors in one team and 1 warrior and 1 guardian on the other team. All of us bunkers.
Gets ridiculous noone can kill anyone else. We just ended up sleeping and call it a day.
All is vain.
yea warrior is the best bunker now because it has no counter play. heal can not be interrupted since healing signet is the go-to heal now (even though it took like a month for tPvP to adapt it since it’s slow as hell to react to what’s actually good), boons can’t be stripped since it doesn’t rely on boons to bunk. best mobility between berserker stance and/or stability and whirlwind attack → rush.
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Yup, warrior feels more like guardians now.
They keep trying to say warrior can’t bunker, but imo warrior is best bunker right now. There is just no counterplay. You can’t strip its boons you can’t interrupt its heals.
When it gets too hot just pop berserker stance or dolyak stance then use whirlwind attack -> rush. Free get out of jail card on low cooldown.
I thought ANET said bunkers should not have good mobility.
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(edited by Excalibur.9748)
Thieves are too squishy and can barely dent a warrior’s regeneration. Requires too much concentration and field awareness to be effective.
All is vain.
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Results are hilarious.
Had this thief whack at me the whole game, my HP doesn’t even go down LOL. He was definately playing D/P. I don’t know if he was trying to burst or what but my HP didn’t even go down at all. I was whittling him down with just auto attacks and he had to run every time. Poor guy, dying to auto attack and can’t even hurt me lol.
Everytime I was close to dying when getting mobbed, I just used whirlwind attack and then rush and everyone was so far behind me. Basically just used auto attack and can kill everyone except for full bunker which can’t hurt me obviously.
You killed a D/P thief with autoattack?
That was a really bad thief.
Alas, Warriors are really good counters to thieves in 1v1.
Well I made him run like 4-5 times, can’t remember if I killed him in the end. But having to run from a 1v1 in sPvP isn’t really that good. If I slot in mace/shield and do the macecrack -> 100b -> whirlwind attack probably could kill him though. I was carrying a longbow in the switch slot that I didn’t really use.
Healing signet + adrenal health + banner regen + defense banner + 3341 armor + 28000 HP + berserker stance sustain is no joke in sPvP where everyone hits like a wet noodle. I whacked all the NPCs (profession training dummies) down with just auto attack and standing in the same spot and using hundred blades occasionally. For some NPCs my hp didn’t even go down.
All is vain.
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Results are hilarious.
Had this thief whack at me the whole game, my HP doesn’t even go down LOL. He was definately playing D/P. I don’t know if he was trying to burst or what but my HP didn’t even go down at all. I was whittling him down with just auto attacks and he had to run every time. Poor guy, dying to auto attack and can’t even hurt me lol.
Everytime I was close to dying when getting mobbed, I just used whirlwind attack and then rush and everyone was so far behind me. Basically just used auto attack and can kill everyone except for full bunker which can’t hurt me obviously.
All is vain.
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This (Sept. 6 SotG) seems like it belongs here. I can’t remember when they mentioned it in the video, but S/D thieves got mentioned a couple of times during the discussion with possible ways to nerf them.
Can you summarize please, because an hour long stream is too long to watch for most people.
From what you said so far, it seems like an S/D thief nerf is on the table. The only uncertainty is HOW. Meanwhile, they want to buff warrior. Sounds like they know what they’re doing!
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According to this poll thus far, the most OP classes are:
1) Warrior (double the votes of necro)
2) Necro (double the votes of thief)
3) Thief
4) Rest hardly got any votes at all
and the devs want to buff warrior :P I want whatever it is they’re having LOL because it’s some really good stuff.
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Don’t even bother chasing a warrior if you’re not a thief built to chase them.
All is vain.
meta warriors will run with 98% resistance to cripple, chill, and immobilize. this is achieved with dogged march, runes of melandru, and bowl of lemongrass poultry soup.
All is vain.
It’s possible fleet shadow only works when you’re affected by movement impairment abilities such as cripple, chill.
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It probably just feels like low damage before FS/LS change since there was some kind of boon tanks everywhere where people just stack boons especially guardians. Yes FS/LS was responsible for this meta shift imo.
The meta kinda shifted now and the auto attack is a beast now. Also fairly common combo to open with FS/LS to strip boons then just whack with AA.
All is vain.
There is no burst damage on 3
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.
FS/LS does more damage than AA, it is faster executed and LS does more damage than CS + evade + boon steal + unblockable. It also doesnt suffer from the problem that if you opponent dodges / blinds / blocks your Slice / Slash you have to start your AA chain over again, it is quite hard to get to crippling strike. FS/LS doesnt have that problem.
I play 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 double S/D and i still do enough damage (3,5k lac on glass, around 2,3k on bunker guards), i’m sure a 30 CS thief could live with a 20% dmg nerf (only on LS, not on FS). Yes, in PvP.
Also PW’s problem is not the damage, it’s retaliation which renders it useless in a team fight.
There were calculations that showed FS/LS doing LESS damage than auto attack chain and DPS was actually lower. Besides theoretical calculation, people who compared damage between AA and FS/LS on target dummies recorded similar DPS between AA chain and FS/LS. It probably comes out faster yea since it’s 2 hits vs 3, but AA does same or better DPS.
FS is evade and LS is boon stripping and unblockable but CS is weakness and cripple and doesn’t cost initiative. It’s also a lot easier to connect AA chain than LS especially considering you can use the initiative on dancing daggers to help you connect it.
That is hard to believe, you dont happen to have a link? im quite interested
Well all the theorycrafting was done shortly after FS/LS was buffed, and S/D has only been nerfed since then. It would be a pain to find it again since it’s been so long, but the general concensus is FS/LS does same DPS as auto attack. The burden of proof should not be on me anyways, since what I’m saying is widely accepted as the truth for a very very long time.
All is vain.
by rerolling a warrior.
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There is no burst damage on 3
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.
FS/LS does more damage than AA, it is faster executed and LS does more damage than CS + evade + boon steal + unblockable. It also doesnt suffer from the problem that if you opponent dodges / blinds / blocks your Slice / Slash you have to start your AA chain over again, it is quite hard to get to crippling strike. FS/LS doesnt have that problem.
I play 10 / 0 / 0 / 30 / 30 double S/D and i still do enough damage (3,5k lac on glass, around 2,3k on bunker guards), i’m sure a 30 CS thief could live with a 20% dmg nerf (only on LS, not on FS). Yes, in PvP.
Also PW’s problem is not the damage, it’s retaliation which renders it useless in a team fight.
There were calculations that showed FS/LS doing LESS damage than auto attack chain and DPS was actually lower. Besides theoretical calculation, people who compared damage between AA and FS/LS on target dummies recorded similar DPS between AA chain and FS/LS. It probably comes out faster yea since it’s 2 hits vs 3, but AA does same or better DPS.
FS is evade and LS is boon stripping and unblockable but CS is weakness and cripple and doesn’t cost initiative. It’s also a lot easier to connect AA chain than LS especially considering you can use the initiative on dancing daggers to help you connect it.
All is vain.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
i don’t think devs know what they’re doing if they’re buffing war instead of nerfing them.
All is vain.
There is no burst damage on 3
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
The point of the ini system is to not have any cooldowns on weapon skills, not even if its 1 second.
they should nerf the damage a bit (around 20% seems fine) and give dancing dagger actually a use to compensate and complete the set, because at the moment it feels incomplete. (just like D/D, P/P and P/D)
That would effectively put FS/LS in a worse situation than pistol whip. At least pistol whip does same damage as AA. After 20% nerf FS/LS would do 20% less damage than AA.
All is vain.
There is no burst damage on 3
I don’t think you understand what “burst” means. It doesn’t mean backstabbing an enemy to death in two shots, it means an attack (or sequence of attacks) of elevated DPS compared to your autoattack, which is traditionally predictable pressure damage. This is mostly done to finish off a foe that you pressured down or to shift the pace of the battle so they use their heal prematurely.
The Flanking Strike>Larcenous strike chain is a much faster delivery of damage than the autoattack chain.and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
You didn’t understand the point of my suggestion at all, did you?
I don’t think you understand at all. In the time you can complete an FS/LS chain, you can finish an AA chain which does comparable amounts of damage. It would literally be stupid to make AA do more damage than FS/LS by adding a cooldown on LS.
All is vain.
There’s a new thing on TC where commanders run tagless. So don’t come to TC for this.
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I get 9 empyreal per tower.
3 empyreal per camp.
4 dragonite per keep.
But it varies depending on how many I kill.
All is vain.
S/D 3 is so easy to land anyway. I say we take away all weapon sets except d/d, remove stealth, but wait…that still leaves skill slot 1…hmmm. need to rethink this.
Easy to land? I hate that spec BECAUSE of how hard that is to land. It’s prefaced by a moving dodge and has a slow animation.
Ya LS is hard to land these days.
All is vain.
There is no burst damage on 3, and a 1 second cooldown would be stupid since there is already the initiative system.
All is vain.
3 empyreal per camp.
9 empyreal per tower.
4 dragonite per keep.
Not sure what the absolute max is though I’ve gotten lower before.
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This sort of thing is really subjective.
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Sept 17th = no balance
Oct 1st = yes balanceIt would be nice to have another case of “leaked” patch notes so that players can offer feedback before it goes into the game. If nothing else it’ll give us something to debate.
LOL…..that was an epic failure. the leaked patch notes were so bad. Good thing we helped them fix it up.
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It’s because we swing the sword so fast and skill 3 and 4 are OP
Lol since when is dancing dagger OP??
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Mesmer and elementalist are kitten ed that S/D thief removed them from the metagame and are complaining like crazy.
Apparently it’s okay for warrior to hard counter spirit ranger and condi necro, but not okay for S/D thief to hard counter mesmer and elementalist.
All is vain.
Dogged march is a passive -33% condition duration. The CD is just for activating a regen effect.
Also, Warrior Sword #2 ability ignores cripple/chilled and works as an awesome escape.
Yea the 10s icd is just for the regen, so it’s not like they can have constant regen from it.
Sword isn’t really meta anyways. The meta is mace/shield + greatsword. True they can use sword + greatsword for maximum mobility but that’s probably harder to play since without skullcrack good luck landing the 100b.
All is vain.
I don’t know what build you have, but anybody, even without any sustain, can regenerate from 400 dancing daggers. Also, warriors usually have -70% cripple duration (food and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March), not to mention free 3 seconds of regeneration to entirely outheal it…
You don’t use DD to do damage, it’s there for the cripple. Considering FS/LS does about the same damage as AA, it doesn’t make sense to spam it when you don’t need to. DD is there to ensure every single hit of my auto attack chain connects.
Warriors usually have 98% cripple duration resistance (just gonna assume dogged march + melandru runes + bowl of lemongrass soup as it’s meta and it’s good to assume the worst case) but, then 98-66 = 32% cripple resistance left, still plenty enough duration left to stack on the cripple that they can’t cleanse to make sure I connect every single hit of my auto attack chain.
Dogged march has 10s icd so it doesn’t really matter if it procs.
All is vain.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
Initiative is fine, you make a choice on which skill you use. Personally I use dancing dagger in S/D kit a lot, possibly the most.
1. The problem is, initiative system GREATLY reduces the number of choices.
2. Then I want to see you dueling against a warrior (or pretty much any class), using dancing dagger for 400 damage and 3 second cripple. It costs 3 ini, and it means you can’t use shadow return to escape from stun combo and cleanse one condition. And if you want to stay back and casually throw these scissors at a group of people – just use short bow’s auto attack.This ability had it’s use before it got its damage nerfed by 50% and cripple by 2 seconds. Personally, I used it a lot against rangers for high damage and 10 sec cripple.
Now, you can only use it to finish that dude who just attempted to run away from you with 1 hp left, while your infiltrator’s strike is already activated, and weapon swap is on cd.
Well I have 66% condition duration (30 in DA and eating super veggie pizza always in WvW) so my dancing daggers cripple for 8.5seconds (5seconds I guess since it’s bugged) and when I spam this, it basically screws over anyone in an Xv1 situation. Roaming isn’t really that profitable, I move with the zerg when I can especially since I need ascended mats. I also run sigil of earth and the trait to stack on vulnerability so this makes it extremely unlikely they can clear my cripples. Considering I can consistently stack 4 conditions (weakness, vulnerability, bleed, cripple not counting immobilize from sword #2 and panic strike and poison from mug)
Also the dancing dagger spam screws over warriors the most since they rely on disengaging to regen their HP with that cheap signet of theirs. Between AA cripple and DD cripple you can keep on laying that damage on them to overcome their regen. So technically I don’t see a problem with spamming DD to fight warrior, since that’s what I do anyways but ofcourse you need to have enough ini for FS/LS and shadow return.
All is vain.
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I’m succesfully using S/P with trickery and para sigil
Right now i’’m collecting material to make a vid of its gameplay.
S/p is way more interesting manner of playing than s/d 311333v331v3v113
Lol it’s 33333333333 when I play S/P in PvE. But I don’t spam 3 when I play S/D.
All is vain.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
Initiative is fine, you make a choice on which skill you use. Personally I use dancing dagger in S/D kit a lot, possibly the most.
All is vain.
That’s the first time I’ve heard someone claim signet of agility is OP…
All is vain.
S/D Thieves SHOULD be nerfed.. it the most spammy ridiculous spec in the entire game. I have a level 80 thief and I’d rather this spec didn’t exist. Spamming 3 is BORING.. even if S/D was 100x more powerful than any other class/spec I still wouldn’t play it. Destroy this build and give us something more fun and interesting.
I don’t think you’re playing it correctly if you’re spamming. This is the MOST fun spec for me and I don’t spam 3.
I don’t play D/P or D/D since I don’t like hit and run playstyle but you don’t hear me clamoring to DESTROY it and replace it with something more fun and interesting.
All is vain.
And they should not be account bound.
Let us play how we want to play. We want the freedom. Make it happen.
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In my thoughts thief should be no faster than a ranger or warrior. The rest sure.
According to the devs, the thief should be the fastest class.
All is vain.
Full zerk trinkets. PVT armor. Melandru runes.
Greatsword + Mace/Shield. Healing signet, berserker stance. Bowl of Lemongrass. Dogged march. There you go, meta warrior.
All is vain.
Now that every class has passive 25% movement speed, it’s time thief get a buff to mobility to keep them at the top of the mobility food chain.
All is vain.
I don’t have any explanation for this one. I just casted shadow refuge over the downed mesmer, I went ahead to stomp him. My stomp got interrupted. Is that even possible in this scenario?
Had that happen to me too.. Was there anyone else around? I believe “throw bolas” on warrior can “channel” into stealth and have the same effect as what we are discussing. I know I have gotten "bola"d while in stealth before.
Noone else around I was just 1v1ing this mesmer.
I’ve been hit by Magic Bullet while in Stealth (during duels).
Perhaps that is what you mean?
I guess it’s possible the mesmer used this before he was downed, and it bounced to me from maybe another nearby animal or something while I was trying to stomp him.
All is vain.
I don’t have any explanation for this one. I just casted shadow refuge over the downed mesmer, I went ahead to stomp him. My stomp got interrupted. Is that even possible in this scenario?
Had that happen to me too.. Was there anyone else around? I believe “throw bolas” on warrior can “channel” into stealth and have the same effect as what we are discussing. I know I have gotten "bola"d while in stealth before.
Noone else around I was just 1v1ing this mesmer.
I kinda deleted my previous post cuz now that I think about it, there isn’t really any way a downed mesmer can interrupt me so I thought it must be my memory playing tricks on me.
All is vain.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
I’m sure ANET has this statistic, maybe they wouldn’t mind telling us. Also what percentage of players had successfully gotten the achievement for throwing 8 orbs?
All is vain.
Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.
i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.
Do you remember which weapon it was? Mesmer’s greatsword 5 is a cone knock-back, which is still basically an AOE and doesn’t require a target.
don’t remember the weapon I don’t pay attention to what weapon my enemies use lol. but i didn’t see a red AoE circle on the ground.
Yeah, there’s a few skills out there that are active in a cone area and don’t need a target to work. Blunderbuss is an example of one of those skills capable of damaging a stealthed player even though it’s from a ranged weapon and doesn’t put up a red circle.
Good to know for future reference, thanks.
All is vain.
Warrior > Necro > Ranger > Guardian > rest.
All is vain.
Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.
i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.
Do you remember which weapon it was? Mesmer’s greatsword 5 is a cone knock-back, which is still basically an AOE and doesn’t require a target.
don’t remember the weapon I don’t pay attention to what weapon my enemies use lol. but i didn’t see a red AoE circle on the ground.
All is vain.
Also understand that ranged weapons without AOE skills have no other way to hit a stealthed player than by precasting channels. Non-channeled ranged weapon skills require a target to hit even if you’re lined up and shooting someone point blank in the face.
i’ve been interrupted while doing a stealth stomp by a non-AoE downed skill, by a mesmer.
All is vain.