Guild Wars 2

well i was just reading the thief forum and look at that, many threads complaining about backstap being OP and a cheap mechanic – from thieves. these are just 2 i picked up on page 1 most recent posts.

Fortus plays an elementalist, FYI.

It’s just elementalist complaining about thieves. They also complain about warriors more. Because warrior is more OP.

What’s the point of a 0.25s cast time, if the aftercast is 0.75s??
Get rid of or reduce the aftercast, and that will make shortbow a lot better.

Zach.3264:

Thieves get mobility, survivability and outrageous burst in 1 build, Warriors don’t.

It’s the meta mace+shield/greatsword build. It has all 3.

are people really still complaining about burst thief? I can’t even remember the last time I ran into one of those.

Walker.3056:

Sensotix.4106:

it was an example
another example..thief wins vs warriors in tournys
thief wins vs ele in tournys
vs necros
vs mesmers
vs guardians
vs some engis
vs some rangers

again this is just an example to show you guys there is no atual counter

Man all those pro tpvp players are so bad they should all hear ya and buil a 5man thief team they would win everything so ezzz

Funny because in reality, having more than 1 thief means you just kitten yourself hard.

it’s an indirect nerf. rangers will be able to reveal thieves.

Alys Florent.1359:

The QQ about warriors in this current meta honestly reminds me so much of people QQing about backstab thieves (even if you avoid the first backstab, they can just go back into stealth again!!!!! nerf stealth!!!).

Tbh I’m not sure why there is such a sudden outcry over warriors now. Warriors lacked sustain before cleansing ire and healing signet buffs, and were basically useless. They got some sustain several months ago, and now suddenly the game is completely broken and we need a hotfix RIGHT NOW?

QQ about backstab thieves worked though, they were nerfed a lot, repeatedly.

I’m pretty sure there would not be as many QQers if QQing didn’t work because it practically works everytime.

Also the sudden outcry about warrior is probably due to PAX finals where Super of Car Crash demonstrated how good warrior is. The majority can’t actually think for themselves and need someone in a top guild to demonstrate a good build before they start to use it. So right now we got a ton of FotM warriors running around and steam rolling the competition and so it’s easy to see why the QQ is building.

The people who can actually think for themselves, started the warrior QQ more than a month ago. The precise timing is right after the healing signet buff patch.

Ya I know, all the meta builds are cheesy as hell and all revolve around mindless spamming.

S/D build actually has quite a high skill cap compared to most other meta builds, but it IS pretty cheesy.

Still, there are other builds that are more OP and cheesy right now that should be taken care of first like healing signet warrior and necro.

Most instagib thieves start with basilisk venom. SO what you wanna do is when your character gets turned into stone, hit your stunbreak then dodgeroll. It’s actually simple, you don’t need superman reaction speed.

kill shot OP!

inb4 L2DodgeNoob

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Wont happen. Would be nice, the costs would have to be insane though like 2,500BoH as well as 20g or something silly

That is acceptable.

That includes weapons, armor, and trinkets.

With just badges of honour.

Make it happen ANET.

I don’t want to hear thief QQ from the most OP class in the game.

Nikkinella.8254:

I doubt a thief could take down a warrior who isn’t afk or just plain horrible. On any other class, thief is a threat. When i’m playing as my warrior, I actually feel bad for them because of how easy it is. 1 pindown is usually enough to drop those glass cannon ones who put everything into attack and forsake all defense. The ones who stealth constantly and fart condition removal still aren’t a problem. I can stack on the conditions faster than they can cure them, and that’s saying a lot since if traited for it thief has the best condition removal in the game. Well after warrior anyway, but warrior can be totally immune to conditions.

I think a lot of wars aren’t traited and equipped correctly still. Typically they’re of the berserker/PVT hammer/sword+warhorn variety. They should be running condi bunker with longbow/X or cavalier gear with mace+shield/greatsword if they’re roaming.

When they start to gear, trait, and equip correctly we should hear even more QQ than now. There is still untapped potential. The general public is too slow to adapt meta builds.

Nikkinella.8254:

Bottomline is if you have any clue at all what you’re doing with warrior, you should NEVER die to anyone else unless it’s another warrior. The other professions simply don’t stand a chance against a semi competent warrior. It’s in a tier all of its own now. That’s why my guild is pretty much all warriors now. we gave up on the other classes. Anyone who still thinks warrior is bad, or needs any kind of buff is just stupid and doesn’t know how to use the class.

Yea I know. Thank god the vast majority of warriors roaming around WvW suck. Or otherwise my thief wouldn’t be able to kill any of them.

Like your condi bunker war, I just can’t think of any way to kill it except for rolling a mace+shield/greatsword warrior. 1500HPS regen is serious business combined with your mobility. Even though my thief is specc’d entirely for anti-warrior right now I dunno if I could take one such warrior head on.

which mode is best for glory farming/can finish daily fastest?

Warrior is hard enough to kill already, I don’t think we need to make him any stronger.

They’re S-tier right now.

Maybe running away the majority of the time and using broken mechanics like unlimited teleports such as the S/D thief you play constitutes skill for thieves? I think for the actual gaming community that is called cheap and getting carried by your class.

That’s not a broken mechanic, it’s a perk for being thief. If you take away all reasons to be a thief, then there is no reason to be a thief anymore.

As for warriors, running away half the time is fun now? If you are running away half the time from a fight against a good group then your team mates will get ripped since you are there half the time.

A good player stays in for the majority of the fight to help the group, not run away and leave his group members on their own. Hell..you can just equip GS and sword and run away 80% of the time if this is the definition of a good war player.

It can be fun if you’re solo roaming. If you’re a bunker you won’t be focused at all, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re helping your team a lot. It just means all your teammates die first then they focus on you. On the other hand, if you’re a glass cannon, you need to be able to get away from being focused for a moment because they will focus you first.

I actually play a regen bunker war in sPvP so I know first hand that never dying doesn’t mean you contribute the most to a team. My thief is more of a glass cannon with no sustain so I disengage/re-engage a lot more while my warrior can more or less stand in the midst of it all and take the punishment as well as being able to disengage if I want.

Sorry but I’m not convinced that running away from fights the majority of the time constitutes skill nor fun.

Never said it took skill, but it’s clearly a warrior strength.

Healing signet, mobility, and CC basically defines new-age warrior builds.

As long as a build uses all 3 you’ve capitalized on all warrior strengths. So yea disengaging engage disengaging often makes sense.

Sensotix.4106:

hm yes i also think the port through walls shouldnt work anywhere not only clocktower
apart from that i think it should be alright

The only thing I can agree with.

Extremely OP on a war.

Last time I dueled a good necro in sPvP with my S/D thief I was chain feared and died before I could land a single hit. Necro is stupid broken right now.

Gimmicks like being able to port to higher ground can’t win a duel. Sure nerf S/D thief after you make it so necro can only use fear once in 30seconds or so. Being able to use it 3 times in a row is just insta GG.

Interceptor.2653:

Source for this?

leaked patch notes

Warrior running healing signet.

I would go with warrior. It’s the best in everything right now.

I have the most trouble against S/D thief out of all thief builds on my healing signet warrior, but I’ve rated them to B tier where warrior and necro is in S tier, because warrior and necro is THAT much better currently. B is for below average btw.

If anything needs toned down about S/D thief, it’s the amount of evades they can get if they build for it (but still not that reliable) But leave larcenous strike and infiltrator strike alone.

S (heavy armor classes – good at everything tier)
+Warrior
=Guardian

A (light armor classes – good at support tier)
-Elementalist
=Mesmer
=Necromancer

B (medium armor classes – good at roaming tier)
=Ranger
=Thief
+Engineer

Why are you guys making S/D thief to be some kind of god mode?

People who main thief knows it’s not that good and D/P and P/D thief is much better for 1v1s.

JETWING.2759:

S:
+ Mesmer, Engineer
= Thief
A:
+ Ranger and Necro
= Elementarist and Guardian
B:
- Warrior

LOL warrior in last place. It’s like I travelled back in time.

Chill Winston.7263:

Why do you even care that you can’t catch the warrior who is running away from you? You actually are the winner of the fights where your adversary runs away….

Not if the warrior then comes back to kill you after he’s healed. Noone has really lost or won until they either killed someone or died.

Warrior or necro.

Besides, what do you mean by PvP rewards? You can already have max stats at lv1, what could you possibly want that you don’t already have yet?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Excalibur.9748:

sPvP daily can be done very fast.

I hear a lot of people complaining about lack of rewards for sPvP, but isn’t a laurel a reward?

If all you do is PvP, laurel is nothing compared to what other things give you. Every moment spent in the pvp realm is time that could be spent making money in pve. It almost seems as if you have no progression at all in pvp. Rank doesn’t even count because it moves so slow and is highly dependent on your hotjoin farming skills.

Yes but if you want to maximize the rate at which you can get laurels, you would do PvE daily and PvP daily every day. Therefore this makes sPvP a must-play.

azuzephyr.7280:

Laurel can’t be spent on nice things for pvp

But can be spent on nice things in PvE like ascended trinkets.

Oh and PvP titles are awesome to use in PvE, because it is more skill based than most PvE titles.

It’s out of character.

Give us shuriken, kunai.

Perplexity is broke, so what you’re saying is it takes broken runes to defeat a meta stun war.

Stooperdale.3560:

Consider this. On land thieves have not got a block/parry skill. If we did we’d just repeat it again and again if we needed to. The initiative system denies us ever getting that skill unless it is put onto a utility (which makes little sense).

Underwater thieves have a decent block and riposte skill, plus a good evade skill. The rest of the skills are awful. Even so, those two good skills needed to be nerfed to the floor just because they could be repeated again and again.

if they made the block cost 12 initiative and only last 2 seconds, would you still spam it over and over? if they want to give us a block/parry on land, they will, and there is already a mechanic to prevent spamming, it’s called initiative cost.

sPvP daily can be done very fast.

I hear a lot of people complaining about lack of rewards for sPvP, but isn’t a laurel a reward?

Does DaPhoniex still play her ele?

Xsorus.2507:

Maugetarr.6823:

Xsorus.2507:

That’s not a draw back.

Cause they’re not doing damage to you.

Esp when Stealth gives you so many benefits.

Now if Stealth didn’t let you heal/remove conditions you might have a point, Because The other person would be getting those benefits while you weren’t.

But considering most thieves can stealth at half health, and come out 4 seconds later with full health and all the conditions removed off of them, You’re not getting a drawback by stealthing.

How do thieves get to full health 4 seconds later? The heal in stealth is only about 330 HPS meaning about 1300 or so health by the end of that. If you have more than 1 damaging condition on you (very likely against engis and necros) all you’re effectively doing is canceling one out until it might get removed at the end of 3 seconds. Other professions have both better passive and active condi removal. Lets take cleansing ire on the warrior for example (comparable since its in their toughness line also); cleansing ire rewards the warrior for being more aggressive instead of backing off, resulting in 3 conditions removed every 7 3/4 seconds while encouraging them to attack for the condition clear. It’s the equivalent to us getting the benefits of ‘while in stealth’ to ‘upon revealed’ instead. That would cause you to benefit from keeping up pressure rather than having to drop pressure 50% or so of the time to gain a noticeable benefit from traiting into stealth.

A. a 1300 Point Heal every few seconds is incredibly powerful. Just look at warriors, who don’t stealth, and you can see how a heal every couple seconds is powerful.

B. You have access to a Heal that removes Most of the damaging conditions off of you, You have a very good Condition Removal ability with the cleanse while in stealth as well. If you’re dying because of conditions that’s on you.

C. Cleansing Ire is incredibly powerful, But then again Warriors are over the top right now, If you want to compare your Cleaning Ability, look at Rangers. We remove 3 conditions every 10 seconds. This is a GM trait, You can remove 4 Conditions every 10 Seconds (5 if you’re really lucky) this is an Adept Trait. All it requires you to do is Stealth, which you’re doing anyway.

If you want to see how powerful Stealth is with these abilities tacked onto them, Don’t drop 30 points in Shadow Arts, and run around WvW for a bit.

I don’t drop 30 points in shadow arts, and I run around WvW a lot. Stealth does have drawbacks (hence why I don’t rely on it for offense)…and I already listed them.

Xsorus.2507:

That’s not a draw back.

Cause they’re not doing damage to you.

Esp when Stealth gives you so many benefits.

Now if Stealth didn’t let you heal/remove conditions you might have a point, Because The other person would be getting those benefits while you weren’t.

But considering most thieves can stealth at half health, and come out 4 seconds later with full health and all the conditions removed off of them, You’re not getting a drawback by stealthing.

You have to trait for heal on stealth. And classes like warrior with healing signet can heal while the thief is healing in stealth so like I said, the drawback is that the enemy is healing while you’re doing 0 damage.

Another drawback is that you can’t cap objectives while stealthed.

Those 2 drawbacks combined is why S/D is superior to D/P in sPvP.

Also…there is NO guarantee whatsoever that you won’t be damaged during stealth. I can think of many situations why a thief might be damaged while stealthed. It’s not an invincibility mode. I agree if stealth = invincibility then yea it’s OP.

Xsorus.2507:

Stealth in this game has always been over the top.

I mean lets examine what thieves were saying month’s ago when we said “Stealth is out of line”

They said things like “It only lasts a few seconds, We’re revealed every now and again, we’re not perma stealthed”

But right now, Thieves in this game can actually perma stealth…Which is something they weren’t suppose to be able to do. Which is why you got a bloody in combat stealth every few seconds.

If Anet had any idea of how to balance a game in the first place (and they don’t) they would of never gave you in combat stealth on such a short timer, and they certainly wouldn’t of let you have Stealth with ZERO draw backs.

There is a drawback for stealth. When you’re in stealth you’re not doing any damage to the enemy.

I don’t know about you, but to me that is a pretty big drawback.

I am a thief main but I’ve been playing my warrior in sPvP and from what I can see, this class basically has it all except for stealth.

It’s just very solid in all aspects. It’s just too easy to play and a bit boring.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Excalibur.9748:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Excalibur.9748:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Just for fun…

170 Power = ~8% dps boost
170 Pre = ~5% dps boost
15% crit damage = ~10% dps boost

Looks like guang was right, Yaki. Apology incoming?

170 power = ~8% dps boost
170 Pre = ~0% dps boost
15% crit damage = ~0% dps boost

with PVT or condi build.

Your math is incorrect. Adding 8% chance to crit on a PVT build will still increase the dps by the factor I indicated. It will still be an increase on a condi build as their pitiful direct damage would be increased by the same factor.

And who cares about condi builds and PVT? This is a thread about pve min maxing, not a voyage to scrub city.

Not it won’t.

170 Prec with 0% critical damage is effectively 0% DPS.
15% crit damage with 0% chance to crit is effectively 0% DPS.

You don’t understand. Critical hits have a base 50% damage bonus with 0 points invested in critical damage. A build with 0% chance to crit and 50% critical damage will see the increased dps I indicated if their stats are changed to 8% and 65%.

Did some calculations using those stats.

Let’s say you deal 100 base damage with PVT.

So 1(100) + 0(150) = 100 base damage.

Now let’s add 8% crit chance and 15% crit damage.

0.92(100) + 0.08(165) = 105.2

That is 5.2% DPS gained, which is less than what you’d gain from banner of strength. Now add in the fact that it’d be 0% DPS gained vs certain bosses and all siege equipment, then banner of strength is a no-brainer for PVT and condi builds.

Guardian is another good pick.

Heavy classes rule the game.

Warrior got the damage, utility and good in zergs.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Excalibur.9748:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Just for fun…

170 Power = ~8% dps boost
170 Pre = ~5% dps boost
15% crit damage = ~10% dps boost

Looks like guang was right, Yaki. Apology incoming?

170 power = ~8% dps boost
170 Pre = ~0% dps boost
15% crit damage = ~0% dps boost

with PVT or condi build.

Your math is incorrect. Adding 8% chance to crit on a PVT build will still increase the dps by the factor I indicated. It will still be an increase on a condi build as their pitiful direct damage would be increased by the same factor.

And who cares about condi builds and PVT? This is a thread about pve min maxing, not a voyage to scrub city.

Not it won’t.

170 Prec with 0% critical damage is effectively 0% DPS.
15% crit damage with 0% chance to crit is effectively 0% DPS.

And that holds true for both PVT and condi. Now I’m not saying that PVT or Condi is the way to go for dungeons, but that may explain why some people choose to bring banner of strength instead.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Just for fun…

170 Power = ~8% dps boost
170 Pre = ~5% dps boost
15% crit damage = ~10% dps boost

Looks like guang was right, Yaki. Apology incoming?

170 power = ~8% dps boost
170 Pre = ~0% dps boost
15% crit damage = ~0% dps boost

with PVT or condi build.

Topher.1684:

They told us in an interview that they didn’t give them a reward on purpose. The stat buff alone is more then enough incentive for people to go cap them (plus atm they are a good source loot due to massive zvz(vz) – dependent on your match up obviously.

It can be a minor reward. It just seems like it is pointless to cap these nodes, when you can get better rewards elsewhere (doing anything else basically).

Also, I haven’t experienced any sort of ZvZ in the ruins…. and I’m on TC and we like to zerg, except for the random guild groups on the opposing servers that just mow down any kind of roamers.