Guild Wars 2

Artaz.3819:

Kidel.2057:

Rage is better. Revenant gets +10% crit rate and +7% damage from traits under fury, plus the normal 20% from the boon and 7% from the rune. 25 might is easier to achieve and mantain, expecially in pve and wvw, so you’re comparing a 5% with a 42% damage increase (factoring only 100% crit damage).
It’s math.

Price doesn’t really matter, since Revenant is the first class that gets so much boost from fury.

Also in group play both are outshadowed by scholar runes.

First, trait is +30% crit rate (not +10%). (20% from Fury + 30% additional from GM trait). I’m not sure if did math or just did the napkin version and compared Fury/Ferocity against Might/Power only without other boons and total boon uptime.

I’d like it if there was an actual Rune alternative.

As confirmed by Roy, the trait gives 50% of the usual + 20%, so it’s 30% total (20+10). He also sait it may be buffed. Description is misleading

No way that’s working as intended.

And Jalis has already too many meh skills. Hammers are bugged, road is slow and is used mainly for swiftness with blasts, chain taunt is only good for tank builds (implying rev can tank lol) and elite is simply a waste of energy.
The only good skill is the healing one that basically forces to equip the whole legend just for 1 skill

Rage is better. Revenant gets +10% crit rate and +7% damage from traits under fury, plus the normal 20% from the boon and 7% from the rune. 25 might is easier to achieve and mantain, expecially in pve and wvw, so you’re comparing a 5% with a 42% damage increase (factoring only 100% crit damage).
It’s math.

Price doesn’t really matter, since Revenant is the first class that gets so much boost from fury.

Also in group play both are outshadowed by scholar runes.

Thief has no cd on weaponskill, so the wait time is a drawback from the initial burst.

Revenant can’t burst. And thief doesn’t need initiative for 6-0 skills.

Energy gain on swap is a design choice that was made clear in the first blog post about Revenant and energy.

It’s currently the only good way to use upkeep skills and it’s working as intended. People are even asking for 100 energy on swap instead of 50, where have you been?

I can agree I’m nitpicking in this regard. I still don’t know how much legendswap is going to be nerfed, so it’s pointless to argue now. I just hope not badly enough to force the use of traveler runes.

Funny how you quote my words from another context when they may suit what you personally want. Are you implying I was right?
I was playing devil’s advocate a bit. So basically you can’t be right now unless you admit you were wrong before
Well, except you are asking for a nerf now…

I’m not saying it should be changed, I’m saying it should stay as it is. There is no reason to add cd in swap ooc except to nerf IO ooc.

We’re going to experience a revenant with almost 100% swiftness uptime, that is not OP condidering that there are faster classes. If it has to be nerfed there should be a least a way to compensate without resorting to a rune set.

It was compared to thief that is by far the fastest class ooc. It was never said that revenant is meant to be slower then mesmer or guardian. Every class is slower then thief ooc (even without swiftness thief has many groun targeted blinks and perma +25%. Just spam bow #5 to outspeed everything).

Since it was compared to thief, this may even mean that revenant is supposed to be the second fastest class.

Having to rely on runes to travel is pretty bad, expecially in wvw. This is a huge disadvantage, since no other class has to go so far to get mobility (most of them just need a signet or a skill)

Who ever said that Revenant is meant to be slow ooc?

That wouldn’t really solve the ooc mobility issue.

Urgh, are those brakes on the hype train?

Would it be possible to have another mobility skill outside Shiro? Like Jalis road skill. I mean without blasting it

It really doesn’t need a new ranged weapon. We’ll be using sword anyway most of the time.

Yeah, but I don’t really care if it’s useful or not. As you said it’s cosmetically amazing.
It would be a waste, it seems it was just there waiting for the Revenant.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

1 second of swiftness? 1? No, really…1?

Impossible Odds is a pulsing quickness and super speed while you are upkeeping the skill.

Does it trigger the cd of legendswap when out of combat? I’m curious to know if we are going to be able to use it (almost) permanently while ooc.

It’s not intended to be constantly used out of combat, but I think in the version you all get to play this weekend that you’ll be able to do what you said..

That’s amazing.
Uhm, “in the version you all get to play this weekend”
Lol, please don’t nerf its ooc effect, it’s the only good mobility option we currently have

It was almost impossible to keep up with far groups in WvW in the last beta WE.
Lightning field+blast forces to use mace+jalis (hammer is not fast enough and you need to stop to blast), and it’s bad if there are mobs around.
Also mace+jalis can’t really be used in jumping sessions without falling down.

If you really want to nerf IO ooc, then can we at least get swiftness baseline on jalis road skill? It’s a road afterall.

You should watch more then 4 seconds and more then 1 video.
And I think I’ll extend this advice to “you should probably learn to listen”
Because you can’t. That’s clear. Unable to see the interesting parts of 3 short videos, then replying as you think you know what’s inside them. Same thing you did with the POI.

And that thief video is funny, but it doesn’t justify what you’re saying.
Let’s say it only has utility skills, then they add weaponskills. Is skowcia going to bother? Why? They didn’t make it weaker, they gave thief something more. You can still run around with no weapons if you like.

So while your video shows that a strange build is possible against weak and almost-not-moving people, does it mean it has to be the only build in the game? The only way to play as thief?
Does it mean that if they add weaponswap it’s not good because it’s useless?

Wut less options btw? All i see are more options right there. I take 50% cd reduction

And again you didn’t answer. Why shouldn’t we apply the same reasoning on Guardian, Warrior, Ranger, etc? Because Revenant didn’t have weaponswap from the start? So design choices are to lead by fail history?

And I was talking about less options compared to no weaponswap. Your “new” suggestion is simply hilarious. A selfish way to legitimate you to not use weaponswap, when the real reason is that you are kitten.

I don’t swap weapon on Ranger, does it mean I’ll get 50% cd reduction on longbow/sword? Hell no. Devs are not crazy. And that would simply be seen as a way to penalize people using weaponswap.
I’m so glad you’re not a dev on this game.

EDIT: in the thread you linked there are 3 random users talking, so what? I linked you 3 upvoted guides with 3 videos showing them in action. You can see it from yourself, but I guess you have blinkers and you’re unable to see everything that proves you wrong.

EDIT2: and for what you know, maybe Elementalist was imagined or even developed with weaponswap at firts, then maybe it got removed and replaced with conjured weapons because 40 attunement weaponskills were simply too many to manage. Final design is not set in stone at the beginning. Ideas evolve.

I’ll just leave this here…

Roy Cronacher.1576:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

1 second of swiftness? 1? No, really…1?

Impossible Odds is a pulsing quickness and super speed while you are upkeeping the skill.

Does it trigger the cd of legendswap when out of combat? I’m curious to know if we are going to be able to use it (almost) permanently while ooc.

Literally guide videos attached to the build:

Bow used as any other weaponswap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=47&v=V0j9VZEDk3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=35&v=8-2VGS7-ECI
(ranged attack to take less damage or backline+more cds+4 all skills used except AA)

Hammer literally used as melee burst weapon, all cds used
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL9cpcGgeqwmGiv0GBau2vWxj6MYCMDPus&t=130&v=V--FQ9dSmvE
Literally half of the rotation in the guide. You may say “unnecessary” but it’s objectively better and used as a melee weaponswap (do I have to quote when you asked me how ele can swap 300-1200? Because that’s the question here and I think I’ve proven it enough, I don’t care if you say it’s “unnecessary”, that’s your opinion against a meta build approved by many users and used by pro players that know more then you about pve and wvw, type of games you do not play).

And Revenant is designed for weaponswap. You fail to see the difference between design and concept. The starting idea was maybe simmetry with ele/engi (maybe), but the design led to the need of weaponswap, as Roy admitted.

And you’ve just proven (again) that you did not listen to the POI. Why am I wasting my time with you?

Also you don’t want to use WS in your pvp build. Fine. Why do others have to suffer a class with less options just for you? Not everyone cares about pvp, that is just 1/3 of the game. Plus your build wasn’t nerfed, so why do you even argue?

skowcia.8257:

Conjures are not viable in pvp at all.

We were not talking about pvp, are you able to follow?

skowcia.8257:

They have limited duration/skill usage so you cant really count them by any means. Show me any ele that uses d/d set conjures bow to camp it please. Doesnt matter if it be pvp, wvw or pve, i just want to see it. And 600 range? Water has no damage at all, its completely useless. You might as well run in circles as your damage wont make any difference. Go make topic in ele section about this, my popcorn is ready.

Never said “camp” in any of my arguments, either talking about ele or revenant.
Please keep track of what we are talking about, because it’s the second time you reply to things I never said.

First pve set on the site (dagger+bow+gs)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F
Second set (scepter+hammer+bow+gs)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_S/x_LH
First WvW set (backliner staff+gs)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Staff_Backline

Want me to go on?

Benefits for no wep swap are also QoL ya know? We wont get more damage by your logic, so why i should suffer vs a rev using wep swap? You have 10 skills to use, i will have 5 with halved cd’s to bring me on par with you.

Are you able to include energy in the picture? 10 cds with double energy cost.
Are you also able to include the fact that no Sword cd is useful?

Simple as that. Why i should be punished for not using that “awesome” QoL change? If i am getting punished in this case its not QoL anymore but a straight buff.

The same reason why a Guardian or a Warrior should get no benefits from using 1 weapon set. Why is Revenant any different? You even have energy so you can’t even spam cd.

This class was designed without wep swap in mind, let us play this way. I wont discuss futher with you on at this point as youre on personal crusade against any alternative stuff to wep swap and you want to force wep swap on anyone that doesnt want to play your way

50% reduction has to happen. End of story.

“My” personal crusade?
“My” way?
…

Dude, you are a strange guy. You talk about giving you alternatives and you simply ignore when other people ask for alternatives. Narrow minded.

Weaponswap doesn’t remove anything from your playstyle, asking to remove it when people and devs want it is not even being selfish. It’s worse.

skowcia.8257:

Interesing. Since when d/d ele can swap between 300-1200 range? Many ways..haha yeah i wish so see that.

Staff ele (1200 range) + conjure hammer (range 150) or greatsword (AA is longer then 300, but has many melee skills) and, pretty useless but in the game, shield (range 130).
D/? ele (300-600 range just with attunements) + conjured bow (900 range, very strong) or axe (weak but still in the game).
Scepter/? similar as staff.

It’s not so much different from Engineer, except engi doesn’t really have a melee option, but it’s not really required when his ranged skills are so powerful.

That’s not the case for classes like Revenant or Guardian, who can’t be only ranged.

A ranged option for Guardian is required for some WvW roles and many PvE situations, but you need weaponswap for melee chances, or you won’t do much dps.
Revenant has to be compared to Guardian, not ele, sice legend swap can’t give kits, and it would force to equip a whole trait line for 1 skill (plus yay, 3 classes with kits and no weaponswap…).

skowcia.8257:

I already pointed out why weapon swap wont be needed in pve due to dps rotation on sword. If i happen to get some X/rifle or lb warrior then be sure that he will end up autokicked kicked from my party right in the moment i notice that.

Are you talking about dungeons? Because I never mentioned dungeons.
When I use my warrior in dungeons I have 2 melee sets. When I use it in WvW I have 1 melee and 1 ranged set to swap (and well, the same for PvP however).
The reason should be pretty obvious and it’s EXACTLY THE SAME FOR REVENANT

skowcia.8257:

In general most of them camp staff either way as it is more effective.

Exactly! Can you imagine Revenant using only hammer? Melee hammer is a mess.
Elementalist is a magic light armor class, of course it has amazing ranged weaponskills (and 20 of them on 1 weapon), plus conjured weapons for melee (or the opposite).
Revenant needs weaponswap to do something even remotely similar.
It’s not to do more damage.

skowcia.8257:

Also you still didnt answered me. How are threads asking for weapon swap related to my suggestion? It doesnt affect you neither them in any way.

Why a Revenant with no weaponswap has to get benefits? I don’t get it.
A second weapon set is mainly QoL, you don’t get more damage, just more customization and “gear switch”, so why should you get a bonus for not using it?
Dude, you make no sense. It’s like you’re kitten for something and you’re crying.

skowcia.8257:

It just gives alternative playstyle for us which you may or not want to use.

Oh, so now you want alternatives!
Look, I just quoted one of the 3 reasons Roy gave for weaponswap, except you wrote it.

Ominous.7583:

Ya that’s a blog outside of the game.

How do you know for sure that it’s not going to be explained in the game too?

skowcia.8257:

Like um..you cant swap between close and range? So pretty much like ele.

But ele can. In many ways.

skowcia.8257:

Was there any other reason? I believe no.

Yes, there are many, even Roy gave 3 of them in the poi. Please stop forcing your thoughs on reality.

skowcia.8257:

Also i wasnt the one crying to have ability to wear swords and hammer at the same time.

Again, your ideas are great while others only cry… Dude, grow up.

skowcia.8257:

Why it would be required? Legends? Legends are olny utility skills, dont pretend it something else when it really inst. We can pretty much classify legend names as utility types. Mallyx being corruption for example. And im not alone that doesnt want weapon swap either, after all i wasnt the one who made this thread. Also many classes/builds cant burst and kite. Not everyone playing cheese mesmers.

Cool, how is this replying to what I wrote and you quoted?

skowcia.8257:

I dont care about pve at all, i dont care a lot about wvw either other than roaming to beat baddies in 1vX and teabag them.

As I suspected. Then you should stop believing you’re the only one in the world. People DO care about pve and wvw, statistically more then pvp.
And if pve and wvw players in great quantity, including devs, think that weaponswap is (was) needed, then you should probably consider the idea as valid.
Adding ws doesn’t lower Revenant’s pvp abilities, but it’s a huge improvement in QoL for other aspects of the game.

skowcia.8257:

Also in wvw swapping between range and melee weapon is not a big deal, eles do that for the whole time.

This pretty much confirms you don’t play wvw, as you said. Pretty sure not as an ele.

skowcia.8257:

Why rev dindt started with weapon swap at the beginning? Cus it wasnt planned at all.
…
Right after a beta and bad feedback about revenant a weapon swap pops up.

Of course, that’s why they do betas.

skowcia.8257:

Also what is your problem with reduced cds if you wear olny 1 weapon set? I would really like to know whats your problem here, i really do. Does it really bother you that much that someone may have lower cd’s cus he can handle 100% melee and properly manage energy? As you said i put myself as disadvantage, i wont be able to burst and kite. I fail to see where is the problem in this case.

I really suggest you to read the many threads asking for weaponswap. Actually READ them, possibly without thinking “this dude is just crying” or “I don’t need it in pvp”
I’m not going to repeat myself.
Also you could save a lot of time and just watch the POI again and listen to what Roy said about ws, that are actually his very reasons for adding it, directly from his lips.

We are actually saying that it’s better if you don’t follow them, the only exception being Mallyx+Mace and partially Shiro+Sword.

EDIT: what do you think is Jalis weapon? Hammer?

Are you implying that your opinion is the only one valid, while others (including devs) are just “complaining”, or QQ?
You may not agree, but we gave many constructive reasons why weaponswap is needed.
Take this as an advice, but your attitude is pretty childish.

Your playstyle maybe just happened to not require ws, but this doesn’t mean it was not required at all, you are just 1 player. Revenant was the only class unable to melee burst and then kite, but that’s just an example among many that were given.
I’m sorry, but I can’t figure you out as a pve/wvw player, because not having both malee and ranged options in that regard is a disadvantage.
If you mainly play pvp then ws is not a big deal because of energy probably.

I also suggest you listen again at what Roy said about ws in Shiro’s POI, because I think you may have missed it, or you just don’t care and your ego is making you believe in a different reality where people cry and devs spoil them.

But is probably too late for you to open your eyes, you went too far with your argument, you’ll never admit you were wrong. And I am hoping to be wrong about this

I would agree with you except for the fact that to max up the output of upkeep skills you need to use them til your enery is over and then rapidly swap to another legend to gain energy and keep using weaponskills (that’s actually the main reason, you can’t use ws if you have low energy). That’s the difference with elementalist.
Ele just uses up most of its cooldowns, while with revenant is more a matter of flow.

At least that’s how I use it. Of course it’s not the only way.
You can use legendswap more defensively mainly for stuns/condis. Of course there are more ways to see it.
The most offensive way however is to get energy back.

And I think it’s intended, otherwise swapping to a new legend would have started at 0.

skowcia.8257:

They have 15sec duration, after that they disappear like spirit weapons for guard.

They’re not a physical object like spirit weapons however, just a boon/effect with stacks and a graphic rapresentation.

It’s more similar to Basilisk Venom (except it has 6 stacks and heals)

Linking weaponskill to legend is a bad idea as said multiple times. Legendswap has to compensate for the unchangable utility skills. Also you are supposed to legendswap pretty often and to get energy. I don’t want to be forced to go ranged just because I wanted 50 energy back after an upkeep.

Lazy option sometimes is the best option. Eager is almost never a better policy.

I do not agree. As I explained multiple times, original weapons combinations are better then supposed ones.

Hammer+Shiro and Hammer+Ventari are both better then Hammer+Jalis (come on, hammers rotating on close distance and taunt chain on a ranged weapon), while Staff+Jalis is the best tanking combination. Also Sword+Mallyx is under elite upkeep is the highest dps probably.

Or maybe because you don’t even want to try?
I think you’re under the impression that your opinion is the only right one. Grow up.

It’s not even like weaponswap can hurt you, so why are you not happy? Because other people are happier?

And please stop bringing this topic in every thread. You don’t want to use weaponswap? Fine, keep it to yourself or the right thread.

Yeah, sure, or maybe you can just adapt to the class design that has been decided by the developers?
You know, if you don’t like Revenant you’re not forced to use it. I don’t like Mesmer, so I simply don’t use it, I’m not asking the art team to remove the pink butterflies.

If you liked Revenant with no weaponswap you need nothing more. Weaponswap is just an addition, nothing got removed (everything got buffed).

Maybe to get 5 passive effects at once and 5 skills to activate.

But they did explain it on the blog.

MunkeeBreath.9165:

No…. just…. no.

I agree. There are so many better gw1 characters, and also gw2.

And you give up to 10s of fury on healing skill, that means +30% crit rate and +7% damage on revenant (plus +5% damage with rune of rage). So I’m not ewuipping cleansing channel unless I really need it

Edit: meant for pve

For Shiro/Jalis balanced build I’m using this:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgYFVASsA9Q~
With full zerk + rune of rage + s/s + hammer
Salvation is there only for the blinds and the daze on Elite, but only if the daze is at the start or if Jalis Elite becomes usable. It could be interesting with Mallyx however, but Mallyx requires Corruption.

For max dps I’ll be using this:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgYFVAFcA9Q~
(honestly, just for the +3% damage for each condi and the free condi copy and the free torment on crit)

If I switch to Shiro/Mallyx the build has to change like that for Resistance on Demon skills:
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgYFVAGcA9Q~

I’ll try to use Shiro/Mallyx with the last build first. If Mallyx is still a mess and conditions destroy me, I’ll switch to the second setup. First setup is more likely what I’ll end up using however, and I’m afraid that Cleansing Channel will be required too.

Also if Momentary Pacification ends up being used at the beginning of the cast, then it’s simply too amazing to give up.

Retribution may be nice for damage reduction under 50% hp, but the extra healing from Salvation and all the blinds probably give more survivability overall.

And maybe also the strongest.
I’m sure it’s the strongest attack Revenant has. Even without factoring all the Vulnerability

I meant damage however.

I think that’s supposed to be a hammer from the mists, not a copy of yours

I don’t want to convince you. Being forced to condi cleanse with sigil is bullkitten and -20% dps

ShadowCats is right. Let me add that you should prepare your account bank in advance to make your beta character able to access everything.

What you add to the bank from normal characters after your beta starts is ignored.

Also no access to guild and guild bank.

So prepare ascended stuff before

Yep. But I think that the legend-asura dialogues will be funny

You’re not getting more dps swapping weapon. Sword AA is our strongest attack

tuck.2719:

Purecura.1795:

As a Mesmer main, soon to be Chronomancer main, I find it highly insulting that the Tempest elite pretty much dabbles on the Borderline of Chronomancer time manipulation.

I saw a comment over on WoodenPotatoes’ tempest recap that I thought was insightful:

GruntSquad92 1 day ago (edited)
sounds to me like this is their modern take on the dual profession system:

primary elementalist + mesmer = tempest
primary necromancer + warrior = reaper
primary guardian + ranger = dragonhunter
primary ranger + elementalist = druid
primary mesmer …. + revenant (???) = chronomancer (..?…?!)

There was some follow-up discussion about specifics, but I thought the overall concept was rather insightful. Taken this way, the design of the tempest makes a bit more sense if you look at it from the standpoint of “take an elementalist and add some mesmer elements to it”.

Tempest is clearly Ele+Guardian. They even referenced Guardian many times duting the stream and on twitter.

And Chronomancer is basically Mesmer+Mesmer, lol.

I don’t think that’s working as intended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhkjnAOgHaU&feature=youtu.be
Basically you can get Versatile Power trait and then swap between weapon and banner to get 25 stacks of might.

Should be fixed adding an internal cooldown.

source: reddit.

Condi cleanse is a huge issue. Expecially on Mallyx, resistance doesn’t have 100% uptime and you get tons of conditions, that you can’t even benefit from.

You only get benefits from single stacks and short conditions. 2 hours of cripple are impossible to cleanse without swapping or equipping a staff, and you can only copy single stacks of conditions. Also the 3% damage bonus per condi only applies to different conditions, so again no benefits from absorbing 10 stacks of burning compared to 1 stack, except you die faster once resistance is over.

I agree with you on condi and stunbreaks. I don’t want to be forced to a sigil for cleansing.

It wasn’t only the solution with less effort, but also the best ald less restrictive one.

Thief, like Revenant, doesn’t really need a second condi weapon set. Both classes use energy/initiative to do weaponskills, so they don’t benefit from a second set of cooldowns, unlike Warrior that can spam GS skills, then swap to axe and do the same, reducing wait time and increasing dps.

Also Revenant won’t probably be able to achieve a pure condi build, since you’re still going to legendswap a lot, and we have only half condi legend.

I’ll just leave this here
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Flameseeker_Prophecies
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Flameseeker_Prophecies

Mists are big part of Asuras lore, with I think 2 personal story tracks connected to them, plus Fractals expedition lead by Asura scientists.

While Norns are connected to the spirits, they have no interest for Human legends, since they only recently merged with them from centuries of isolation. Still, Norn shamans can open portals through the Mist.

Charrs have probably less interest in legends, but they need ancient magic to save their lands from ghosts. Rytlock, the first Revenant, is a Charr.

Can’t find anything to connect the Revenant to Sylvari except Ventari. However the same could be said for Engineer, but we know many Sylvari are interested in that, and a NPC even explains why. Plus Scarlet was an Engineer, so I honestly can’t see how a Sylvari can’t become interested in Mist magic.

Lore-wise, any race can be Revenant, and even if a race was very distant from it, an individual can have his/her own story to justify a profession.

I understood you’re for weaponswap
I was replying to the fact that the other possible option you were suggesting is not good and gives limits to gameplay.

Just watch the video I linked at 5:15.
Roy literally says that they had discussed it internally and were already giving Revenant weaponswap, it just wasn’t ready in time for the last beta.