Guild Wars 2

Sure, there are tons of issues with Mesmer balance. Many many issues… but it has always been a class worth playing. There’s a certain amount of uniqueness that it brings. Style you might even say! For the majority of players, there is definitely something great you can bring to your team as a Mesmer.

Reasons to play Mesmer:

• Boonsharing
• Boon ripping
• +1ing fights aka mobility via teleports
• Tanking
• Alacrity
• The ability to severely punish bad players/moves
• Most importantly, butterflies

I have no words for this change. lol

Well of Precognition is officially only better than Veil in spvp now. gj Anet.

This can be nothing good for Mesmer. lol I’m not even excited about the Scepter changes…

Terrorsquad.4802:

MailMail.6534:

Terrorsquad.4802:

- Bunker Mesmer (too much pressure while sustaining 2v1 at the same time, even if the point isnt not in its favor, it can keep 2-3 enemies busy. Turret Engi 3.0)

This scenario sounds REALLY idiotic. Worse off, I can’t say I’m surprised to see statements like this. Why are 2-3 people keeping a bunker Mesmer busy on a neutral point?

Because my statement is based in general situations, not only the experienced environment. We both know u could leave 1 player on that point contesting but new/average players, which is a big part of the community, dont know.

Your statement is significantly more adverse to Mesmer balance, because simply having 3 clones is kitten OP for newer players. Mesmer, no matter how much you nerf it, will always be a hard class to fight against if you’re new.

Also, if we’re still using your “general situation”, your statement applies to ANY bunker that is capable of handling 2-3 enemies at one time. Not just Mesmer bunkers.

Terrorsquad.4802:

- Bunker Mesmer (too much pressure while sustaining 2v1 at the same time, even if the point isnt not in its favor, it can keep 2-3 enemies busy. Turret Engi 3.0)

This scenario sounds REALLY idiotic. Worse off, I can’t say I’m surprised to see statements like this. Why are 2-3 people keeping a bunker Mesmer busy on a neutral point?

If they’re gonna nerf WoP to become distortion, they might as well make it work with other traits like MoF… oh Anet.

The block nerf was kind of an unnecessary shave but not horrible.

Not a fan of them really besides the swords and pistol. I doubt I’ll get any of them.

Simply make it 3-4 stacks of confusion on interrupt, and it instantly makes it more worthwhile…

2 long lasting stacks is currently just too underwhelming considering how hard it is to stack it as a Mesmer. Irony at its best I suppose.

Haven’t tested things out since the patch, but it looks good on paper to me. Not too bad of a balance decision. Hopefully the distortion works with allies and reflecting though…. come on Anet. I believe in you!

Even with our more high-sustain builds, retaliation still doesn’t make sense as a boon for Mesmer. I’d prefer they bring back the 4 stacks of confusion and give it a 1s Resistance. This would make its insanely high CD of 30s worth it imo.

Literally the only reason to ever take torch is for open world PvE content (even this is debatable) and PU builds for WvW roaming.

Pretty disgusting behavior from a “pro” team. Shocking? No, not at all.

Nightshade.5924:

First, if anyone cares, I posted something on this topic about [u]a year ago[/u]. I was at the time QUITE fed up w/ getting trashed by mesmers. Many people derided and defamed my viewpoint. See here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stealth-Classes-OP-in-PvP/first#post4615485

Checkmate.

The fact that you were getting trashed by Mesmers a year ago says everything about your skill as a player and how valuable your opinion is on Mesmer balancing.

Mesmer is currently a strong class. I glanced at the rest of your post to amuse myself and didn’t see any evidence pointing to Mesmer being OP. Histrionics is all I saw.

I definitely think this is the absolute worst choice in a pvp conquest scenario. I don’t play conquest, but I could see PU being of use here perhaps?

I haven’t given it much thought, but I definitely think this elite is severely outmatched by the likes of Gravity Well / Time Warp / Moa in conquest.

I must say, I disagree with the OP about Staff needing a boost at all. I think it’s one of our best weapons and keeps in line with the chaos theme. It’s a versatile weapon that can be used both offensively/defensively AND using condi/power damage. The bleed stacks can add up quite quickly.

On a related note, there are definitely ways Anet can improve condition Mesmer, but the Staff skills aren’t the problem here… That’s deserving of a different thread I suppose.

With the buff to Inspiration as one of our most valued trait lines, it’s pretty easy to take AOE condition removing traits/utilities.

• Well of Eternity
• Nullfield
• Temporal Enchanter (Resistance for all glamours AND gives you two more conditions removed via Nullfield)
• Heal removing 2 conditions

eta – I think RI is actually balanced if not a bit on the strong side. I only say this because of the way healing stats [don’t] work. A Marauder using this trait benefits almost just as much as someone actually taking healing stats which doesn’t make any sense.

No shade, but I wouldn’t go to metabattle for builds just quite yet…

That being said, I think the best way to play alacrity support is by playing a bunker build with Alacrity/Precog/Heal wells. There’s some wiggle room on the 3rd utility slot and elite depending on your traits. Emphasize using F5 to double up on the Alacrity Well, and that should be enough alacrity for your team after a big burst rotation.

Dragonhunter + Reaper takes care of any bunker Chronomancer with no problems. This is of course assuming the Chrono has no additional support.

I think the quickness helps with F5 the most. I LOVED spamming all my Wells after an F5, but the cast times in conjunction with multiple variables can sometimes only lead to casting 2 Wells. This rune solves that problem entirely for my support build…

Despite Ross’ bashing of glamours knowing how much of a fanboy I am, they do need a lot of base improvements. I like the suggestions he lays out for the most part.

Temporal Enchantment should change each glamour according to its needs similarly to Master of Fragmentation.

Eberouge.1693:

When Will Condition Mesmers Be Viable?

fixed

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

go back to the old days

Whenever this phrase is uttered in the Mesmer forums, I die a bit more on the inside… considering that “the old days” of Mesmer is 95% comprised of Mesmer being completely and utterly unviable.

/thread

Daniel Handler.4816:

Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.

Wait, phantasms aren’t crippled by default in WvW/PvP and most PvE content???? I can use them most effectively outside of dueling?! clutches pearls while gasping

Basically you just keep stating the same things over and over again without any supporting substance, and no one appears to agree with you.

This.

I haven’t read much of anything close to substance in this thread that wasn’t already in stated in this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Anything outside of the suggestion posted in that thread will not be capturing my attention any time soon. For the sake of Lyssa, let’s move on.

Here’s hoping so.

Wishes.3021:

MailMail.6534:

You sound like an elitist kitten. And I doubt you are in the top 10% of Mesmer players, so this attitude is severely unwarranted.

Mate I don’t care where anybody ranks me as a Mesmer player the fact is no top mesmers play with mantra of distraction and the point remains it’s only for people who aren’t skilled enough to land a burst without locking their target in place
And Mesmer is getting more and more passive with each patch and that’s why I’m really starting to move away from it. Maybe chrono will change that but we’ll see
Oh and FYI if you want to duel me any time so you can rate me just HMU in game

LOLok

May Lyssa bless you in whatever future profession you play.

Wishes.3021:

CS is cancer in combination with distraction mantra because it allows unskilled players to easily land bursts willy nilly. Skilled players don’t need a kitten insta-cast stun to land a burst and thus there are far better options other than mantra of distraction as far as utility skills go. CS is essentially a skill for noobs. Better remove it from the game entirely so people actually have to learn how to play without training wheels.
Memser is now a class for noobs between PU, CS, and the entirely passive chaos and inspiration traitlines.
I main mesmer by the way.

You sound like an elitist kitten. And I doubt you are in the top 10% of Mesmer players, so this attitude is severely unwarranted.

@mail
Yeah increasing the internal CD would be good. But would it be enough? Making it on interrupt on daze would add more counterplay. Right now you get stunned and then bursted without being able to do anything. By the time you stunbreak the burst has already happened. If you make it on interrupt now you can cancel cast your skills at the right time depending on the opponent your playing to try and avoid getting stunned. And yeah 15 seconds probably was too long. I feel 10 seconds would be much better. And making it per person is also a good idea.

It would be a enough. In terms of what you describe: we have an interrupt—>lockdown trait already and it’s called “Chaotic Interruption”. Again, I agree with an increased CD of 10s but ONLY with the addition of it being per target. I don’t care to mince words and argue back and forth about what is enough counter-play and what isn’t.

I suggest moving the discussion to the other thread considering I think it is the most constructive and best chance at us getting it balanced in the right way.

Seems like Kormir has spoken through Ross. I can always depend on my friends to dish out common sense on the forums.

While the OP is, imo, wrong on how the trait should be “nerfed”, I do agree with his/her general sentiments that a rework should be done. I suggest that the OP re-evaluate his position and instead take a look at the most recently helpful & constructive discussion on this trait:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

The truth tea Ross has been serving in this thread is strong and bitter with extra lemon. Just the way I like it!

I see the pros of DD. It should be just as easy to see its inherent flaws. I don’t typically take it because unless you’re timing the CD, it can be highly situational… and not in a good way sometimes. Again… emphasis on its “sometimesiness”. It’s either REALLY kitten good as Daniel says or it’s REALLY kitten bad as others have pointed out.

Must this discussion overwrite a perfectly good thread?

Back to core Mesmer builds that are better fit for a particular role or objective than Chronomancer.

A few times:
1. Highest possible burst —> Dom/Due/Ill
2. Some Condi Shatter Builds as Slow is counter-intuitive to Confusion. Don’t worry though, condi Mesmer won’t be a thing whatsoever (it was before???) by 2016 at this rate. Still, you aren’t forced to take Slow traits. Shield 4 clone generation is amazing for condi builds though.
3. Boonshare builds that prefer the insanely good trait: Blinding Dissipation. The vigor is also near constant with Dueling in tow with these builds.

I currently have 5 Mesmers. They all have the word “Cho” in it, which loosely translate to “butterfly” in Japanese.

ChoKawaii, Cho Kurai and Gym Leader Cho are 3 of my 5 Mesmers.

Daniel Handler.4816:

As I wrote above. A veil bot has more build diversity as only one utility slot and perhaps one trait line is required.

Pro-Tip: take out one of your wells in this aforementioned alacrity bot build for Veil. You still have 3+ Wells to use. By trait line, I assume you mean Chaos for PU’s Veil buff. It’s hardly worth using whatsoever, because Veil/Mass Invis will always suck as support until they start balancing Decoy/Prestige separately. If you mean Inspiration for the superspeed on glamour, this also is negligible.

I’m no WvWer by any stretch of the word, but I totally think you can be a Veil-bot AND an Alacrity bot. And furthermore, as pyro mentioned, the use of Alacrity takes into account an entire role and build. Using the word “bot” as a derogatory term takes away this huge buff to Mesmers in both WvW and potentially some aspects of PvE…

Daniel Handler.4816:

We exchange one tyrant for another.

I don’t get the complaint or point of this thread. We now have two options: Veil Bots or Alcarity bots. Actually, you can do both at the same time.

This is called build diversity. No problem here from my POV. Please correct me if I’m wrong though.

Bumping to keep this thread visible. I’m no PvEr, but hopefully someone else will have some insight for you. Thanks for the theory!

Ross Biddle.2367:

MailMail.6534:

Why haven’t you played with me?!

Pyro and I PvP’d for like 4-5 hours last night. Where were you?

sleeping because I work Saturday mornings at 8am!!!!! #CryOfFrustration

Why haven’t you played with me?!

Phloww.1048:

apharma.3741:

-snip-

casts Mass Invisibility

casts Mass Invisibility with pre-nerfed PU

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Theorycraft-Confusion-Chronomancer/first#post5521004

Some discussion there. Good luck!

Curunen.8729:

I’d rather see Cry of Frustration be given 1 stack of torment per illusion for 6 seconds base.

And leave MtD at one stack.

This provides one Condi “burst” shatter button in F2 without making every other shatter button into simple faceroll for huge condition stacks.

X / +1

I like this idea a lot!

I’ll mail some gold as a donation to help start this.

looks at the dropped mic with dismal disposition

Embolism.8106:

I think PU at +50% is perfectly reasonable and still worthy of a GM slot. +100% is and had always been overkill with or without bugged Pledge.

That said it would be nice if the boons are reconsolidated down to just defensive ones (Aegis, Protection or Regeneration).

+1

AlphatheWhite.9351:

MailMail.6534:

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

Except at that point, PU isn’t worthy of its GM slot. I’ll just be another Mistrust, incapable of competing with Bountiful Disillusionment or Chaotic Interference.

In what context? CI/BD is already better than PU imo. Prestige is the broken trait here… PU will always be taken in wvw roaming which is where it is best utilized. And even at +1s, it will still see play in PvP for those who want the extra defensive coverage.

It’s this simple:

BUFF VEIL
BUFF MASS INVISIBILITY
REVERT PU BACK TO +1s

End of story. Or no, we’ll keep avoiding the real issues and keys to balancing Mesmer stealth.

The meta is changing at an alarming rate.

Wow thanks a lot for your helpful insight. It’s always great when people can give feedback based on actual testing. Makes me feel like what I just think up in my head when I’m bored can actually have some viability.

I don’t have time to reply in detail, but I’ll get back to you. I’m hopeful that Mistrust can be put to use in PvP in a real impactful way. Thanks again.

One comment though, you aren’t the only one to suggest MoF for the AOE Diversion and you all make a good case for it. The AOE Diversion combined with potentially multiple interrupts and many many stacks of confusion. My pants are soaked.

Silverkey.2078:

MailMail.6534:

I like my auto protection on chaos armor thank you very much. I feel tanky even on a Berserker/Marauder build!

3% would be a fair adjustment, but honestly, I’ve gotten used to the unfair 2%. #stockholm

To be fair, I do use the trait a lot for the protection, but the CD reduction is barely noticeable! The staff CDs on 4 and 5 are needlessly long, and this trait barely helps.

Like I said, I’ve gotten used to the awful CDs in the way that I don’t take the trait at all for CD reduction but rather for protection…

Embolism.8106:

MailMail.6534:

Silverkey.2078:

Embolism.8106:

Just make it grant Blur to allies instead of Distortion.

This is actually exactly what I thought!

This would be better obviously. Or better yet, I’d rather they keep it distortion and have it grant the same amount that you’re granting yourself. -_-

That would be pretty bad in sPvP team fights. You’d be ensuring no one on your team can contest for up to 4 seconds.

It wouldn’t just be balance for PvP… but like I said previously, to give your entire team immunity for 4 seconds is an extremely powerful advantage under any circumstance.

nearlight.3064:

I’m pretty sure they data mined glyphs for Druids, you know, those useless elementalist utilities.

At least there’s something useless for Elementalists!

I like my auto protection on chaos armor thank you very much. I feel tanky even on a Berserker/Marauder build!

3% would be a fair adjustment, but honestly, I’ve gotten used to the unfair 2%. #stockholm

Silverkey.2078:

Embolism.8106:

Just make it grant Blur to allies instead of Distortion.

This is actually exactly what I thought!

This would be better obviously. Or better yet, I’d rather they keep it distortion and have it grant the same amount that you’re granting yourself. -_-