Guild Wars 2

Ostricheggs.3742:

Don’t feel bad. Condi Engis are as OP as d/d valk eles IMO. People just need to L2P.

I’m sorry for you.

Mrbig.8019:

Nah.

plz aNet, nerf engies, slick shoes too OP.

I already feel that this ‘wonderful kit review’ we’ll get will be nothing but a big bad nerf that will pigeonhole us into a situation that is similar to Elementalist, stuck with one build, but with a much lower performance.

Actually, the Rifle alone is already good weapon to brutally interrupt the Thieves. From Berserker or Soldier, both versions work. The problem on the zerker style is that you pretty much depend of the engage, which means mind games for the most part, and the problem on the soldier style is that you don’t really get to catch that Thief if he ever decides to flee.

I’m definately not a professionnal on bunkers but I’d have gone with something like this:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mMMM9cz0mGCFMmGCFM0GaGGmRozmoR8khs7070M7khs707kuW70V7owY8ofy

In short: CC spam, Gear Shield on 16s cooldown, cripples, perma-swift and nearly perma-vigor, Invulnerability triggered by a trait and your Elixir S. I suppose the Slick Shoes could be changed for an Elixir C if the conditions are really a problem, or Bombs if you’re really into them, which would require to move these 20 points from Firearms to Explosives.

Bam, all of a sudden, noone plays poorly!

Zarkx.7690:

I don’t know. i just always feel like. I steal in on bosses or trash. Do as much damage as i can and disengage from the fight ( because i’m basically bleeding out at something like 200 hp) i look over at my elementalist friend or the warrior in our party and they do a lot more. they do dps a lot safer and more in general.

It’s not for nothing that the best teams are Warrior / Guardian / Mesmer based.
Thieves often provide utility within a team, under the form of AOE stealth and blind spamming.

Concerning the why… Well, there are many potential reasons.

The WvW grounds and hotjoins are infested with Thieves. The concept is overtaken by the elitist type fanboys. Most of the designs you’ll see rarely go over an Altaïr, some random anime or whatever ninja assassin they ever cloned the look from. I get that lame feeling everyday when playing my Thief, even if it’s a Charr and that he’s nothing close to what people worship.

Supply Crate is a fair Elite. Elixir X… Well, the Rampaging Brute could need some rework, it would also help the Warriors a bit and… the 50/50 is just kitten I used it twice. First time to charge ahead of a fleeing ennemy WvW group to stop them flat with the stomp. The second time was just for the epic proportion as I used it to stop the Guardian morphed into a Leopard lunging to that fleeing Necromancer.

Good against Thieves? Yes, assuming you’re good at mind games.

Our wide array of knocks, immobilizes and other mobility conditions gets us to be naturally a pain in the kitten but it’s not an auto win because the Thief is as unpredictable as you by nature, and it’s a huge mind game, especially on the engage.

The best scenario would be that you make the perfect engage, and that you manage to unleash all your Zerker Rifle burst on the Thief’s face: Mr Assassin’s Creed clone charges toward you with Basilisk Venom up, do the same thing with your shield raised, if you counter the engage, you’ve done the hardest part, directly send him off with an Overcharged Shot, throw some of your Static Discharge imbued toolbelt skills while you’re knocked (such as Analyze and Surprise Shot) get your Magnet out to pull the Thief back to you and show him your Pry Bar. Make a backward dodge roll in the back to avoid an eventual attempt at CnD, throw your net and your wrench-rang. If still alive and attempting to stealth > Supply Crate on the face and a couple of rifle shots.

That’s the best scenario you can ever get with such a build. An ennemy Thief knowing your build could also trick you and force you to use your defenses before striking once your shield is down, and the only answer is to Supply Crate his face before it’s too late. Then again, it’s pretty much all mind games.

Tanky condition based Engineers have an easier time fighting Thieves, but a much harder time finishing them off. Static Shield is a great asset to counter them, and you could couple that with features like Rocket Kick for maximum burning damage, a pair of Slick Shoes to get him to remain in place. With some trait based perma-Vigor and Med Kit you remain solid even on the long run.

Am I the only one here not able to stand the sight of ANYTHING that carries a kitten hood, daggers everywhere in a stale Assassin’s Creed / <insert anime here> fashion?

Besides, I choose the Order of Whispers because of Tybalt, he is beyond epic.

You’ve answered your own question.

Zerker Rifle Engi can bring ranged, burst damage. (Yeah yeah I know it’s not Warrior damage but for pete’s sake I can’t stand seeing Greatswords in every corner)
Carrion+Rabid or Rampager Grenade Engi can bring massive condition damage aswell as 25 Vulnerability stacks.

And it is often brought with small but useful tricks such as AOE regeneration, condition removal, pulls, Anti-agony revive Elixir and a Supply Crate. On top of this, the class is fairly solid and will be able to take care of itself.

Go for the Eyes is really appealing. But no. It is just about avoiding one attack every 10s at the best case, you’ll have a much better use of reduced rifle skills cooldowns.

Well you don’t only have skill ceiling and skill floor, you also have the performance changes between these two. Sometimes abnormally high or low compared to the distance between the ceiling and the floor related to the classes.

Don’t listen to anyone who’s equipped with Daggers or a Greatsword, and play Engi.

I play it to cause trouble, and sometimes in an attempt to regain hope with my roaming Engi in a world full of Thieves, Mesmers and Elementalists. It is strictly personnal in here.

brogarn.8723:

Snoxx.7943:

Can you run away from a thief? No!
Can a thief run away from you? Yes!
Do you think this is fair?

That’s easy: No, there’s absolutely nothing about the Thief’s combination of stealth, mobility, and DPS design that’s fair. ANet apparently doesn’t think so, though, so we have to put up with it. Either stick with a group or make sure you have money for repairs. /shrug

It’s because they’re ‘supposed’ to be like this, as sad as it sounds. A class that will assassinate people, avoid everything and get out of trouble. Engies, Warriors, Necros, Rangers, and maybe even Guardians are food for these killhungry roamers looking to make their next superownag3 Thief WvW video nobody will care about.

Now I’m not going to complain, Thieves are fightable, but stealth is way too forgiving.

hharry.1967:

Lets see, an ele dagger 5 healing heals for about 2-2.5k if traited/specced into healing power, under a 40s cooldown.
An engineer can drop 5 healing bags which…

Olé! I stopped reading there. I’d be the happiest man in the world if I could drop 5 healing bags.

Anything with an offhand pistol, the Blinding Powder is nearly invaluable.

dinominator.9862:

Doesn’t that go completely against the melee/stealth concept of a thief? I didn’t think they were meant to snipe, also. A thief can already hide, steal, and do considerable melee damage. Enough is enough, IMO.

Yes it does, but well, it’s written ‘ASSASSIN’ on their faces so they also want the top end sniper weapon. Doesn’t matter if the whole concept is action, reactivity, initiative, thrill.

I’ve leveled my Engineer with a Rampeger mindset using Double Pistols and Grenades. When you’re not set to do significant damage or just not level 80, Grenades are always a good choice, good damage, decent condition for a great duration. Going pure damage with a Rifle can also pay off if you’re in the ‘pick and kill’ style because you have plenty of controls to molest your ennemies with.

These rifles are most likely themed around war, and industry. The Warrior and the Engineer are both directly connected to the war theme.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

Rangers have more room (lore wise) for crossbows.

Id like too see a rifle on my thief though, gw2 is lacking a long range single target dps weapon set – ie a sniper!

You have them, it’s called Rifle Engineer (for the most part) and Rifle Warrior. Have fun.

Caltrops are Nails from the Tool Kit, the Gunk is probably the Acid Bomb from the Elixir Gun, the Gear Shield comes from the Tool Kit and the ‘disk’ is his own offhand shield thrown at you.

An Engineer is very prepared to receive aggressions of that kind, but unless it’s a glass cannon Rifle user, you’ll escape him fairly easily assuming you actually know what the class is capable of.

For the engaging issues… Well. The first time a Thief meets me he won’t think about any possible defense and will waste his Steal + Basilisk Venom + CnD on my Gear Shield or anyone’s class related block/immunity.

Problem is when a Thief gets to know that. A good one will trick me into using the Gear Shield, and the eventual dodges, then strike. It turns into a huge mind game where the Thief has one hell of an advantage. Now don’t get me wrong, lots of people can burst. The main problem is just the ability to reset fights if it doesn’t feel right.

For a time, nobody thought anything of the Engineer because it was fine in anything it did, then… It changed.

I am an Engineer, a WvW roamer, often solo, in a world full of killhungry Thieves, Mesmers, and Elementalists who won’t hesitate to try to use me as food for their next super-ownage PvP video nobody will ever care about. I always start happy, because we are well equipped to fight anything, then end up being jaded because unless dueling until death, these opponents will often escape me with ease. I can’t do much about it, it’s the roaming meta. I’m probably one amongst the very few of my kind, to the point that the people I kill often have no clue of what trick I could possibly pull.

In very high level fractals, I tend to struggle to find / form teams that will accept/prefer me instead of some other warrior mindlessly spinning his greatsword for great justice.

Thing is… I don’t feel useless, never did, always something to do, or to bring. Eng is the first class I’ve ever played, out of some strange bet I’ve made with a friend and… I don’t want to play or be identified as any other class.

Watched the video. It’s.. kinda, I don’t know. I don’t blame that ennemy Mesmer, he pretty much did the right things. The fact that you don’t get revealed when struck really discourages the will to use your skills in order to try to catch the Thief.

People hate the Engineer because it’s not faceroll based. And because we don’t spin our greatswords for great justice.

Get revealed when struck or taking damage. Stealth is way too forgiving.

Moddo.7105:

Blacksarevok.8104:

I wonder how many times the devs face palm when they read these forums.

No kidding. And after they read this thread more they facepalmed and slammer thier head into desk seeing a Thief try and justify anything by saying a Eng skill is more powerful. People have hard time putting everything together and seeing a thief is a lot better off in whole than Eng is. Otherwise why is Eng least player profession in WvW by a long shoot.

I’d probably kill to get the Thief Pistol skills, all of them.

^
A Pistol/Shield build is probably the best against Thieves because you can develop brutal counter-attacks, the problem is that you might not dish enough damage to finish him before he decides to flee.

A glass cannon Rifle build is much riskier but also much more rewarding.

A D/P Thief has no CnD, and their stealth move cost alot of Initiative, the fate of your thief opponent will be in the engage:

If the Thief gets dangerously close to you, stand still and try to raise your Gear Shield during the moment he’ll be about to attack, you pretty much won if you manage to get his Basilisk Venom combo to go to waste, you’re going to answer with an Overcharged shot, giving the time for you to land your attacks then Magnet back to you for a Pry Bar, you can even ice this with Slick Shoes after you pulled him to you for maximum control so you can follow this Pry Bar with a Blunderbuss.

If your target tries to flee or use stealth, land the Supply Crate on his face.

Of course, written on paper it looks easy, but fighting a Thief is more of a mind game than actual fighting, it is never guaranteed to work as intended, especially when adding Dodge in the process.

Well, just look at the Thief / Mesmer / Ele bragging videos that are about slaughtering Engineers/Rangers/Warriors/Necros in an outnumbered fashion by stacks of hundreds and find out what could possibly be the best duos.

I roam with an Engineer, a class that I’ll love forever, we are well prepared for duels but don’t have the mobility to catch the most popular roaming classes. I felt epic the few times I handled 1 vs Many situations just to find out that Thief / Mesmer / Ele can pretty much do that blindfolded with both hands in the back.

Decent builds without a kit, it’s nearly like Elementalists wanting builds without Attunements >.> But besides yes, 409 Based condition dual pistols scheme would fit you.

Nefar.8135:

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that stealth needs major adjustments when it comes to pvp.

Just this. I mean, Thieves are fairly fightable to anyone knowing he’ll come around, they’re even immensely prone to brutal counter attacks. However the current stealth mechanics coupled with the absurd mobility grant them a bit too much forgiveness even if they’re doing poorly.

All these videos really start to feel about the same on the long run.

Rythmn.3856:

Also, when you say there is no skill involved I have to disagree. Yeah there’s no skill if your a thief that just goes in and kills and gets killed, but it takes skill/quick reactions to be able to get back out after you’ve jumped into a group and taken out one of their members.

It’s not difficult.

Only an Engineer would duel a Warrior with a wrench

Who’s idiotic enough to stand still when stealthed anyways? Besides; the current stealth mechanics gets Thieves to be forgiven of ALOT of mistakes they could make.

Yes, CC spam, I second this, problem is that most of the time D/D Eles will outlast us and all the unpredictable tricks we may ever have, I’ve killed two of them in my life, one who was terribly bad, and the other one through a lamer’s trick which was to flee up to a cliff, pull with the magnet, change position, launch him off the cliff.

(I loved the ‘All bunkers have something really good!’ and it stops at Ele and Guardian)

Nittles.1582:

But doesn’t hearing the same line over and over again make you feel six feet tall?

Only if I can remember my orders.

Don’t know what to say to that. I won’t mind the ‘fix’ but the class does very well. Tell me, did you expect to faceroll like some Warrior or something?

I’m just going to say that Rocket Boots is a very underrated ability.

Voice over or just styles overall, something in the fashion of Saints Row (Without the absurdity) because at times… I’d just want to dismember the next one who gets to say “Eat my dust!”.

I have a mixed valkyrie/zerker set, a full tank set, and a rabid set. These days I pretty much only run zerker to roam solo in WvWvW, as suicidal as it sounds, most likely relying on Bandages, main heal, Vigor, CC spam, and Gear Shield to survive.

I admit that the whole sniper concept won’t hit live ever, but I suppose I could dream of that oversized and customized (and maybe stationnary, even encouraged) long range rifle kit that would use an Elite slot, I wouldn’t really care how overpowered or weak it is as long as it remains able to f- sh- up with it, which is the primary role of an Engineer after all.

The fact that it screams ‘sniper’ is simply because of the extended technological abilities we have, it’s industrial, we build machines; weapons, gadgets and drink potions to compensate our lack of supernatural abilities in every area. So, why not this?

Besides there were many debates, everywhere. Most likely Thieves wanted such an ability too because they were assassins blah blah blah and Engineers are clumsy with their guns and stuff blah blah blah.

Maketso.5602:

They could introduce some awesome huge monkey wrench as a normal weapon. Muaha

It exists, one of my teammates found one during a Fractals run.

Besides, I’m fine with the current weapons, even if I wouldn’t mind let’s say, a dagger handled in the fashion of a swiss knife or a mace sharing a theme similar to our shield.

A kitten kit as our Elite would have been welcome aswell.

Well hello, I’m an Engineer, solo roaming WvW Engineer with many builds. I’ve been passing through here fairly often because I’m studying all the attack/defense scheming possibilities when I’m facing the classes that roam the most in there.

My main concern was the Thief, of course, the petty Assassin’s Creed clones being at every corners; well, contrary to popular belief they’re fairly fightable when the culling issues aren’t around and if anything they’d need stealth to be slightly less forgiving when making mistakes. A Thief can do ‘1 v Many’ but often at the cost of damage if the concerned people have decent defensive/sustaining abilities since it’s mostly single target.

I’ve been fighting alot of Elementalists, and the D/D tanky builds will always have the edge, trick on trick, on everything my Engineer can throw at him. I’ve only been able to kill one, and it was by launching him off the cliff with a Magnet Immobilize Overcharged Shot combo. A D/D Elementalist will also be able to hold on against up to 3 ennemies, the stealth being traded for protection, alot of protection and mobility while dishing out mostly AOE damage. Two cantrips and Ride the Lightning will be there in case the shait hits the fan.

I’m aware there are windows where we can potentially exploit in what concerns weaknesses, but the required timing is downright hardcore, too hardcore for the skill queue itself infact.

It’s not a whine post though, I love Elementalists and I hope that they get to have more viable builds in the same time the nerf comes.

Highest DPS?

Rampager gear, Earth Sigil, Sharpshooter, Grenade specs. Very decent damage, tons of vulnerability, 20+ bleeding stacks.

Warriors are all around soldiers, they handle weapons, that’s what they’re about.

There is a difference between wanting variety, and just looking to get this or that weapon (For whatever fantasy) and the class not being able to use it. That suggestion is just downright stupid, irrationnal, egotistical and whiny while going at the reverse of everything a Thief is supposed to be, with toys and mechanics you shouldn’t even attempt to tamper with.

Pull, Drink Elixir U for Quickness, Switch to Grenades, launch Grenade Barrage, mash the Grenades button while still recovering. That’s the only thing I can think of in what concerns the overload of auto-attacks (knowing that you throw 3 grenades per autoattack)

Mid range, based around the Steal mechanic, deadly duelist, arcobatics, yes, lets give them a sniper rifle.
You’re upset that they don’t have what Warriors actually have or something?

Thread was cool to read, thanks for the laughs.

What’s so attractive in some clown psychopath dressed in white and red and slaughtering people in the streets anyways?

The only thing I’d like to see is a huge, oversized, customized (And stationary if you want) sniper rifle kit, that would be placed in your Elite utility skill.

Make it happen.