Guild Wars 2

Some people have theorized that they attune to whatever elements they are closest by upon awakening, but this falls short in many instances. The most likely thing is that sometime looooooooooong before any recorded history the Elder Dragons were created in a way that attuned them to the elements they are attuned to, and the rest is history. The problem is that it is all so far back that there is really nothing on it. Heck we’re still struggling with getting information from 4,000 years ago in game, let alone the 10,000+ that the ED’s have been around.

@ Mercury:

I feel that your hierarchy is correct, but the problem is that there is nothing on the first level of the hierarchy to debunk something that was said on the second or third tier. The statement by Trahearne was talking directly about his temple and knowledge, so the very little remained was obviously talking about these (you do not change subject of the sentence at the very end).

But Ludo, the 1 for 1 ratio you are talking about is no different from the 1 to 1 ratio is the same/similar as the 1 for 1 ratio of humans, norn, charr, and asura. Meaning, it’s not the same as dragon corruption. New life is made overall, it isn’t a conglomeration of parts.

1. Get the Nightmare Court to join your side.
2. Send them into a situation as a suicide mission without their knowledge.
3. NC destroyed, no additional minions
4. Pact has easier time plowing through.

I highly doubt he would do this though, seems to have too much honor or some such thing.

Lol, okay then. So it was asura with Sclerite gear that kicked the Elder Dragon’s tails in. They still descended from the sky though and they had the head of each god/spirit of the wild/koda/everything inside set up as a museum inside of the ship they rode in, which was called the Eternal Alchemy! And yes, this means that everything is a part of the Eternal Alchemy!!!!

Nope Obsidian, this is my theory, and the asura aren’t alien enough. They need more tentacles and other strange stuff attached for it to work.

Alright then, Abaddon is alive.
Alien races will soon descend, destroy the elder dragons with quick shots of lasers and take over the world.
The DSD is really a My Little Pony doll… AND SO ARE HIS MINIONS!!!

All of this is equally true in your eyes, because none of it can be proven wrong. All of this could possibly happen, and none of you can stop me from saying it will! Muahahahaha!!!

He stated he regrets the fact that Abaddon had to die, but that in the end it was necessary. Thus he still stands by the decision even in his regret.

I think, from a personal perspective, I would be more likely to buy an item in the moment if I could possibly use it later for a different character. A lot of the time I’ll be working on a specific character and think, “Nah, this just isn’t right for them” then I’ll come back later on a different character and be like, “Crap this would have been perfect for so and so character” but the process is already over. I used to be kind of like a collector in GW1 when it came to masks and costumes, but GW2 has so much stuff that I never even try for the cash shop unless they have something that fits my character on a very deep level.

Obsidian.1328:

True…but I would think written or otherwise visual representation of something in the actual game takes precedence over an interview. After all, it’s the finished product(granted future editing certainly comes into play). Gamer conventions, or similar events, aren’t courtrooms or publishing houses. Their answers aren’t really expected to be set in stone.

OMG! I can’t help but laugh that you state the actual game takes precedence when you look at the current game and just scoff at it!

That being said, when a lore and continuity designer tells me the guy is dead, I take it to mean that the guy is dead.

I think by mantle of godhood, Dustfinger is talking about the magic contained within the “god” that creates it. I do believe that the mantle of godhood can be destroyed. I think that is exactly what was going to happen to Abaddon’s magic had Kormir not stepped in. Think of it like an atomic bomb, large amounts of energy that has been concentrated now suddenly being released, the devastation would be vast, but in the end the original could never be pieced back together. This is just a theory, but it makes sense that once Abaddon’s magic had been released, it would seem to be gone forever, at least as it was.

Yes, but in my mind, the charr are very unlikely to have tried to take Ascalon City unless either they had conquered most all of the rest of Ascalon, or they had the rest of Ascalon’s ouposts under seige as well. This means that, yes, it is likely that there would be small packs of people roaming the land, most likely trying to hide from the Charr, but at the same time I don’t think that there would be hundreds of ascalonians protecting the destroyed estate of Duke Barradin. The charr wouldn’t even have had to try to take that area. I’m sure the radius of ghosts was much larger than Ascalon City, my only thought is that perhaps not every ghost we see was in that location at death. Perhaps some 75% of the ghosts came from Ascalon City, and were spread out by Adlebern while the remainder were just trapped when the Foefire occurred.

I would also very much recommend going to Divinity’s Reach and going to the Durmand Priory Library located on the lower level in the inner circle. There are a few books you can read that give some human history, as well as history of the Elder Dragons. Also, if you go to the Durmand Priory you can go to the lower level and there is a room full of books. Not all is history and lore, but still very interesting stuff. Otherwise, pay attention to your personal story, talk to the scouts, talk to the heart vendors before completing the heart so you can get some background from them, talk to named NPC’s, and through this you will start to get a lot of information about the game’s background.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But I just simply think it’s a mistake to try to limit the Elder Dragons to the four schools of magic, because lets face it – they don’t use the four schools of magic. They predate the bloodstone which predates the schools. We cannot think of the Elder Dragons’ magic in four simple dimensions. Nor can we think of the gods’ magic under them – I bet the schools were modeled after the gods’ magic, but certainly not everything the gods have.

Oh I pray you do not believe that I was actually taking into consideration this theory. I was more trying to disprove the Bloodstone-God-ED theory presented by Ludo by showing that the scenario just doesn’t work. I merely threw Kralkatorrik in the Preservation as a very hard to define possibility and nothing more. I personally don’t think there is any connection whatsoever.

I do have to wonder, though, if perhaps it isn’t possible that the only ghosts created were created in Ascalon City, and then Adlebern sent the ghosts out from there. It could go a long way to explain why there is such random pattern of their existence. I mean the ones that stick around old buildings and towns could be described as having been defending an outpost, but there are many open areas with nothing surrounding that these ghosts claim as well. Just a thought.

I do have to point out that Jeff Grubb came out and stated that Abaddon is dead, flat out dead. I sadly do not have the link though, but hopefully one of the elder lorekeepers can help me out there. I checked the wiki and didn’t find the link I am looking for.

On aggression, I was going more off of the way in which spells are performed rather than the meaning of the word alone. I would agree on some of what you said though.

I agree on the Ritualists, I merely put Dwayna in there because of the inclusion of large amounts of preservation magic type spells in with Ritualists. But yes, according to lore we only know of reverence to Grenth.

I would have to disagree with you Konig on your opinion of the destruction, though. The act of taking the raw earth and re-shaping it into your minions is, in my mind fracturing it from it’s natural form and re-shaping it to your own needs. The same can be said with what we know of the DSD and his minions. I don’t see why this would be any different from the Dragon’s Tooth skill or Water Trident. It is taking elements out of there proper… erm, well, element… and re-shaping them to meet your own needs. Primordus and the DSD do this, from what we know. I would say that Kralkatorrik is vastly different in this because of one fact. When re-shaping the elements, they do not change in nature too vastly. The stone is still stone, fire is still fire, water is still water, it is just re-formed or re-shaped. Kralkatorrik doesn’t do this. With his act of creating the Dragonbrand he changed the very fabric of the land. Grass is now crystal, iron shattered/melted. From what we can see the water inside the veins of everything that was living in the Dragonbrand was transformed into crystal. No form of destruction magic can do that, that we know of. This speaks more towards the restructuring of reality that we can see from Mesmerism/denial than destruction to me.

This being said you can see how the fields of magic seem to align.

Destruction – All gods based on elemental attunements
Preservation – Dwayna
Denial – Lyssa
Aggression – Grenth

Now to look at the types of magic when tied to Elder Dragons.

Aggression – I cannot say that any 1 specific Elder Dragon deserves this position more than any other. All use some of their magic in order to create their minions, just because Zhaitans are undead looking doesn’t mean that he is any more deserving of this spot than Kralkatorrik or Jormag.

Destruction – We know of at least two elder dragons that seem to fracture or destroy the basic fabric of elements to create their minions. Primordus does this to create Destroyers, but the DSD also does this to create his minions. Until ArenaNet changes their lore, he creates tentacled minions out of the water itself.

Preservation – I cannot think of any elder dragon that attempts to use too much of a good thing in order to kill, or that tries to heal. The only possible examples would be if Zhaitan actually had a mentality that creating risen was saving people from death (which some minions state outright) or Kralkatorrik who some people seem to theorize desires perfection above all else. In an attempt to perfect the creatures in the brand he created the devastation that followed.

Denial – The only elder dragon that seems to have any interest in changing perceived reality or even the fabric of the world would be Jormag. He corrupts his minions mostly through persuasion and mental probing and he has at least once burst through into the Mists.

So the final Line-up you have is…

Destruction – All Gods – Primordus & DSD
Preservation – Dwayna – Kralkatorrik & Zhaitan
Aggression – Grenth – All ED’s
Denial – Lyssa – Jormag

If you add this on top of the fact that we know the magic of the bloodstones came from sucking up all the magic that was NOT CORRUPTED OR USED BY THE ELDER DRAGONS you seem to get the idea that perhaps the magic of Tyria is not related to the Elder Dragons just like it is not related to the gods. It was natural to Tyria in the first place and it was bottled up by the seers. The only thing the gods had to do with it was changing how it was distributed.

Ludovicus.7980:

Monks (Preservation) had some destructive ways to preserve (smite condition, for instance)
Necromancers (Aggression) were able to summon fiendish minions not even though it wasn’t their aggression itself, but aggression put into flesh.
Mesmers (Denial) were able to twist and turn things in their favor, unleashing chaos. They denied their opponents ability to do anything by twisting him/her.
Elementalists(Destruction) wielded power to destroy magic itself and feed on it (ether renewal, aura of restoration)

I see the same raw power on the visible dragons.
Jormag is a monkish dragon (Dwayina)
Kralkatorrik is a mesmerish dragon (Lyssa)
Primordious is an elementalish dragon (Balthazar)
Zhaithan is a necroish dragon (Grenth)

I have to strongly disagree with all of this.

Preservation – Deals most strongly in healing, but can turn healing into a fighting effect. It kind of sounds to me like how poison can be made from medication. Too much of a good thing can kill.

Aggression – This has always seemed to strike me as self inflicting wounds in order to harm an enemy worse than you have harmed yourself. Many Necromancer skills have a sort of backlash effect, although this is not always the case (and people are free to challenge me on this).

Denial – This field of magic seems to deal with altering perceptions and even the fabric of reality.

Destruction – This type of magic works by destroying something, usually one of the elements, in order to create something to be used for your own purposes.

Now, in game we are told just exactly how the professions feel about the gods (these being human professions, because obviously charr of any profession won’t kneel to them)

Necromancers revere Grenth for the most part.
Assassins revere Lyssa
Mesmers revere Lyssa
Monks revere Dwayna (except smiters who revere Balthazar)
Elementalists revere a different god depending on their attunement, or they revere all
Ritualists revere Grenth I believe, though there may be room for Dwayna as well
Rangers revere Melandru
Warriors revere Balthazar
Dervishes and Paragons revere all if I remember right, being holy warriors and all.

Ludovicus.7980:

Dustfinger.9510:

Ludovicus.7980:

Dustfinger.9510:

Like one of Dr. Jekel’s associates taking something out of the hands of Mr. Hyde because he knows the will of the good doctor. It’s still possible.

Yup, it makes sense. But the thing is, there’s nothing saying that the gods and the dragons are the same. I see in them more like a ying-yang relationship.

This.

Nothing at all points to it beyond a common “number of perpetrators” and the fact that they are never seen in the same place at once. So, not nearly enough to “make an arrest” but definatly enough to keep an eye out for and at least acknowledge the possibility without making a definitive statement about how it isn’t true.

And this sums it all folks

Well you two are more than free to point out to me that I’m wrong if this happens, but for me there is no connection, and never will be. Unless NEW INFORMATION becomes available there is nothing connecting the ED’s and the gods. This is just my opinion, backed by my interpretation of the lore. Because my interpretation does not leave any room for there to be the direct connection that you two are now pointing towards (note I already stated the possibility for there to be similarities in origins of some sorts, but your current posts are pointing towards more direct ED-god correlations).

That would be true, if this was the real world, but far stranger things have been found in the Mists, and remember Tyria is a part of the Mists (how they are connected we do not know, but they are). I think I remember Konig voicing the possible option of the continents being like “fractals” and the oceans being the “space between” that people have to travel through. In this instance the world isn’t a full shape, it is a series of continents connected by oceans whose boundaries are not set. They are merely the travel time to the next area. This is speculation though. It seems more likely that they will eventually create a more realistic world that is set up correctly (semi-scientifically) so we can take it for truth.

Umm… Quick letter to the Guild Leader… “Hey, I’m gonna be busy for a while, please don’t kick me I’ll be back soon and ready to go!”

I did that 100x in GW1, unless I was in a guild where I knew people really well and knew they wouldn’t kick me no matter what. Not hard either.

Personally, I liked this because it helped me know if some of my friends had been on when I wasn’t. Back in those days, when playing was sporadic, it was nice to know people were still around, even if we weren’t on at the same time…

Monkeys maybe, but you don’t know how the mind of a Mist Monkey works!

EDIT: but as fun as this has been, we should probably revert something closer to the point of the OP, lol.

Except we have proof in game that Grenth is still active through the Cathedral of Silence story… The reaper says that Grenth is still active and wishes us to fight against Zhaitan. I mean how obvious could you get.

@ Ludo
I could perhaps say that they may have a relation in the way in which they were created (supernatural beings appearing to be in form mostly magic with a physical shell). Perhaps on another world what became the Elder Dragons on Tyria became instead the original pantheon of Gods. Their natures vastly different but their essence similar. But this is speculation to the extreme.

As for some of your other notes, I would say that it is very obvious based on the way in which the wars have progressed that the Pact is together for the long haul, and we know that at the very least Kralkatorrik has a major weakness (being the spine/spear). To say that we can kill them all with what we have is obviously not true, there would have to be vastly differing situations for each scenario, but 1 down does give some leverage to the side of the Pact. Sure, coming to these conclusions comes from following a logical pattern, but in my mind it isn’t logical that these beings which are, from what we’ve seen mostly tied directly to Tyria, are at all directly tied to the 6 gods, which are mainly tied to the Mists in general (until more back-story is released), just because there are 6 of each, which is what the OP tried to state.

Oh, based on Erukk’s description I can see Lazarus being a behind the scenes villain for a long portion of the Living Story. But personally I would prefer if Lazarus wasn’t a part of the Living Story (which comes and goes) but was instead part of a few dungeons or some personal stories. This way people could enjoy the content with him, even in the future.

Ah, but a world covered in monkey poo is one that is unlikely to be eaten by the monkey!

So, if we just wipe the slate clean, forget everything we know about the gods, the dragons and everything, and then just brainstorm it makes sense?

Umm, yeah, well I’m just gonna forget everything I know about Lord of the Rings, and just make thoughts about everything based off of nothing, because we cannot think of the actual lore, in this instance. So I’m pretty sure, since the name is Lord of the Rings that there are like a dozen men with a dozen rings and they have to kill each other highlander style so that only one can hold all the rings in the end and can save the world. Am I right? Is this a possibility? I mean it could be if we eliminate the lore…

A horse needs to keep up it’s energy, lol. It’s very confusing, but once you start understanding the Meta-physics of the Mists, it is all actually very simple. You see the horse is actually the belly button of the monkey, and the apple that was the human world was much like the banana that is Tyria. You see they are outside of the Mists, but still closely related. And the belly button of the monkey that is a horse was about to eat the human “apple” world when the gods transferred them to the banana. You see the monkey was still producing an arm worthy of grabbing the banana that is Tyria, and thus humanity had more time to flourish. But the end is nigh, once we destroy the Elder Dragons the real fight will begin. We must destroy the Molars of Destruction (a.k.a. Monkey Teeth) before they chomp down and destroy Tyria as we know it. If we give the Mists (a.k.a Monkey) enough of a tooth ache, it will decide not to eat “the banana” and Tyria will be safe once more. As I said, simple. :P

Just realize, while you are watching WoodenPotatoes, that some of the stuff he states isn’t lore, but is instead his own personal theory that he ties into the lore. I would just ask that before dive bombing directly into being one of his die hard followers, that you read other sources (not the wiki, but perhaps the links within the wiki that take you to direct sources) and diversify where you get your information from.

As to your idea. This has been shut down a great many times, and most people have completely shut down in their interest of explaining why just because of how often this subject comes up. The first thing that points towards this being wrong is the personal story. In one of the stories you are actually able to summon an Avatar of Grenth (which most people would consider Zhaitan to be in this equation). You learn from the avatar of the god that Grenth is actually still alive and that he is opposed to Zhaitan’s actions, by having the players kill one of Grenth’s acolytes that was brought back from the dead. On top of this, I’m going to give a little bit of a spoiler, in the end you kill Zhaitan. And when he dies, nothing happens, he just plummets to his death and the story ends. We learned in Guild Wars Nightfall that this just isn’t the case for the gods. You see when a god’s physical form is destroyed the magic that makes up the god threatens to be released much like a bomb and cause massive devastation (in the case of Abaddon it threatened to cause Nightfall to occur anyways). To stop this Kormir ran into the center of it all and absorbed the magic claiming Abaddon’s mantle and becoming a goddess. If this was true of the Elder Dragons most likely Orr would have been wiped off of the face of the earth and the devastation would destroy the pact and cause wide-spread panic for the other races, but luck is on our side and this just isn’t true.

The other reason that the god-dragon idea doesn’t make sense is because of the fact that there is no real easy direct comparison. You see each god has a domain that is direct with the mantle that they carry, and then they have separate magic tied to them as well. You see Grenth is the god of death and ice (along with a few other names) but Dhuum had no correlation with ice. The mantle of godhood only claimed lordship over death. This is similar with the other gods. If you were to do a correlation based over their mantles, and not the secondary magics that change from god to god, it would look something like this.

Balthazar – War, Conquest – All Elder Dragons
Melandru – Nature – Mordremoth (though everything about Mordremoth is nothing more than speculation)
Dwayna – Life – Zhaitan (corruption of life is undeath)
Grenth – Death – Zhaitan (corruption of death is undeath)
Lyssa – Beauty and Illusion – None make sense, usually tied to Jormag because of mesmerism
Kormir – Knowledge, Secrets, Spirit – Uhhhh, no clue

The lines are so blurry that you’d need glasses thicker than an iphone to try and make them out. Everything about this theory is just reaching towards an idea just because 6=6. And please don’t take me as being angry or demeaning because of this post. I am just trying to sum up what has been said most often by those who actively oppose the idea.

mercury ranique.2170:

Well I agree on the pact. But that doesn’t mean that trahearne has to return (for long). I hope Arenanet listens to all the citicism and writes him a glorious but quick end off him. So many bad things can happen. He can fall out of an airship, slip into the lava, sink into the artic ocean. You know those kind of ‘accidents’ happen

I pray that ArenaNet has a lot more tact than this. I mean, from what I’m reading I think Mercury wants to become pact leader (at least temporarily until another is chosen). This means that his first 30 missions will be filing paperwork, writing out reports, and listening to long winded dialogue between liasons from the various orders as to what the Pact’s next move should be. I personally think Trahearne can keep that job, and just kind of disappear more into the shadows with us still reporting back to him every once and a while.

To answer your question Ludo, think of the world of humanity as an apple that was about to be chomped down on by a horse. The Banana was still a long ways from the hand of the monkey, so they moved humanity there to keep them safe for a little longer. :P

If, perhaps, they went out of phase with Tyria (kind of like during the mission where you and trahearne go to Orr) it is possible that the Titans could attack and destroy beings on both sides of that “phase” especially since they come from the Mists anyways.

Well, one recent WvW post mentioned adding incentives for spying, defending, etc, etc… So hopefully they add either incentives to make spying while alive a more viable option, or get rid of the ability to death-spy so that the live spying becomes more realistic.

If anything, to me, it seems to point to the fact that perhaps spectral agony wasn’t a creation of the Mursaat’s, but perhaps a magic that they found and were able to utilize in the mists. They then may have brought it back with them to use to great effect against the seers in their extermination of the race. Infusion may also be just a creation of the mists used to counteract the effects of agony, and it just happens to be a part of a being called an Eidolon which appears to be like a spirit (meaning it may be able to go in and out of the mists). I think it is a throw back to the mursaat, but it isn’t tied to them storywise, which means to me there is something other than the mursaat behind it. But don’t fear, I believe there is plenty of time for there to be content related to the Mursaat with the Isle of Janthir and the White Mantle still around.

Well yes, obviously Palawa Joko’s undead have spirits attached to them (at least some of his generals) if they are able to second guess and betray their master. I’m sure there are others I am not thinking of either (perhaps shards of orr, or Halloween undead). IDK, I know I’m starting to reach on this theory, but kitten if it wouldn’t be nice to have stuff not always related directly to the dragons…..

Well, Aaron, you have to remember that you places the playable races a step ahead of the more isolationist groups which sit at the level of playable because of their willingness to cooperate between each other. I would say in the same instance, this would give the Quaggan at least some kind of advantage to the other tribals.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is where you run into a snag. Few risen are shown to hold their souls, and only Orrian ones at that. It seems most of the “mook” risen are soulless, as we have at least two cases, I believe, of souls being around while their corpses were reanimated.

Personal preference on the theory though, I don’t like it because it ties dragon corrupted Risen to being the same kind of thing as actual/typical undead, which isn’t really the case. They’re reanimated through different means, different magic, and different outcomes – not to mention the whole mind-warping.

Whether or not there is a “Soul” attached to the minion, there is something attached. Even the mindless thralls are able to speak and they give Zhaitan all their knowledge, though I will agree that this is a snag. My personal opinion is that though the magic that re-animates the dead (and forces the soul back into the bodies of some) may be different, the process may be extremely similar.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that we’ve seen corruption of single beings by multiple dragons — or to phrase it differently, we’ve seen that corruption from one dragon does not stop corruption from another.

I was under the impression that multi-corruption was impossible. Can anyone explain to me where we’ve seen this?

Crucible of Eternity, Subject Alpha. This being has the appearance of multiple corruptions. Multi-corruption was never stated to be impossible, but it was used as a stance to point towards the sylvari being Elder Dragon minions (because of their immunity to corruption).

Sooo…… After long and devastating arguments over things that have no relation to the subject whatsoever (all my fault). We last ended with, "The blue orb could quite possibly have been a creation of Dhuum’s. Used within the Underworld to hold the souls within. When Grenth claimed lordship of the Underworld he removed the orb, which allowed souls to sometime escape the Underworld and go back to the realm of the living (meaning resurrection is possible). Grenth then shucked it into the oceans thinking that within the deepest recesses of the ocean it’s magic would not have any effect on the souls re-entering Tyria. Later the Krait found that in Tyria the orb prevents the soul from being re-attached to the body, thus the risen near it never rise again. It’s not a perfect theory, but for once in a blue moon it is a theory that doesn’t connect every single thing in lore directly to the Elder Dragons. For once, it’s effect on ED corruption is a complete coincidence.

*Major Props to Edusd for the originating thought on the subject.

I would consider the “sorcerer king” title much like the “goremonger” title. It’s the charr despising their enemies. I would put it on the same level of false information as some of the human stories that we have seen to turn untrue. The only sorcery that Adlebern was ever known for was the Foefire. He never even tried to use sorcery to fight off the Titans in Last Day Dawns. I would personally say that the “whole charr army destroyed” makes plenty of sense with the other Foefire stories because of the fact that everything we have seen points to the Charr having just broken in the gates and started rampaging into the city. Because of this their army would all be extremely close to the city, and the small radius of Charr destruction was large enough to envelop them all, but not touch the viewing hill, although one could state that perhaps they were on the very verge of being killed as well, thus their fur changing color.

I can see him trying to be an ally, but gods, I really want to watch him burn eventually. I can’t see him staying an ally forever. If nothing else, the Order of Whispers will lead a charge against him. I’m personally interested in seeing how things work out if the Pact allies with him, and what kind of fall out there will be between the Order of Whispers and the Pact because of it.

I apologize, I had heard the opposite somewhere else. That being said, I do get the feeling that the expansion would still be a ways out. I could be wrong, and it could come fast, but I personally expect ArenaNet to release it “When it’s Ready!”

Which is exactly how the humans viewed Adlebern, until the truth was found out in Ghosts of Ascalon. Fighting the Flame Legion Imperator while his men fought below. Suddenly the two weapons (Magdaer and The Claw) clash and BAM Foefire!

Indeed, Fractals does seem like the place to go for wrapping up/bringing more attention to storylines. I personally hold out hope that they somehow conclude GW Beyond inside of GW2 so we can get that closure somehow.

That would have been a tricky situation though Drax, since I think I believe hearing that only two gates can be attuned to each other at the same time. So you would have one leaving the gate, reattune, another group, reattune, another group. All of that before Vekk blows up the gate? Plus how much threat is there after it’s been changed so much. I would agree with Konig that it is highly unlikely that there were destroyers on those continents though.

Yes, I remember the quaggan near there as well. This was the reason I first accepted the name change.

I’d say that it was quite possibly much more than half of Ascalon, if you take into account where exactly Duke Gaban’s estate was north of the wall, further than any of the seared lands.

Well the differentiation in the Kraken (Jade Maw) could just be a flawed creation of the mists rather than a representation of Krakens in Tyria. Of course the same could be said of the Gargoyles in the Mad Realm being replicas of the Gargoyles of Tyria created within the mists, which is why their form is different from those that we knew. Of course none of this explains the mysterious disappearance, but it’s a possibility.

Yeah, I’d agree with Drax here. ArenaNet has come in and shown us things in human lore that aren’t fully true, but they’ve shown us some things in the stories and actions of other races to try to even out the effect of it. In other words, the charr are lying as well. Many of their stories about the war, especially if you listen to teachers explaining things to their Fahrars, are obviously wrong and point towards humans being much mroe back-handed then they are. I think it just hurts the humans so much more because of the fact that we only ever got to see the human perspective.

Yes, but in GW1 there was absolutely nothing connecting them to Thorn. In GW1 we only visited one part of the Mad Realm, but this quests most others and such had to do with either Candy Corn elementals or Undead (either fighting Joko’s Undead or dealing with his undead servants). It wasn’t until GW2 that there was any connection, but that connection is only in name, because of the fact that the models used for Gargoyles in GW1 vs those used in GW2 are DRASTICALLY different, which leads many to believe that it is just a similar name, and nothing more.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gargoyle
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gargoyle

Also, the model used in GW2 for the other type of Gargoyle is more like a Rock dog model than a Coldfire Night which had more of a reptilian look.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Gargoyle_Dog.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rock_Dog
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Coldfire_Night