Guild Wars 2

Erm, There are no Coldfire Nights in GW2, so we can’t be certain what they would look like on this platform. As to Griffons, yes they look the same, but that is more likely to be related to sharing the same model than anything else, and it doesn’t mean that they are related to Nightmares. What I want to know is whether the Halloween Gargoyles in GW2 are related to the Gargoyles seen throughout Ascalon in GW1, and why/how they went into the Mad Realm.

I sure hope that they use the Living Story as a way to introduce the expansion as it approaches, and I agree that the Tengu are a prime choice for a playable race in the expansion that goes against Destroyers. The sad thing is, there isn’t an expansion in the works at the moment, and with their focus so strong on the Living Story/Making this form of the game work better, I find it hard to believe that will show for a long time.

I never stated envy, but Kinslaying can be viewed as heroic, at least among the norn, should it be a necessity.

Yeah, I wouldn’t say the Jotun are going very far in GW2, but should 250 years pass and GW3 come out… Who knows? :P

I highly doubt that this is pointing towards Menzies death just because of how ArenaNet hates to close possible openings for new content. I would say, more likely, that it was just a tip of the hat to the old guy to get old players wondering and new players asking who Menzies was. If the interest grows, who knows? They might just bring him in, should any of the gods start showing their faces again.

It’s a definite interesting possibility.

Yes people, you must continue to remember that when talking with Obsidian in the GW2 LORE FORUMS that GW2 lore is obscene and has no holding on anything. It is inaccurate, demeaning, and plain false. Using GW2 lore to debate something with Obsidian is like trying to tell a Trekker that the new Star Trek movies are awesome, lol.

A reminder, none of what I said about the lore is true at all, but Obsidian considers himself deserving of special consideration because of his own whims. Obviously he is much greater than us lesser being that just accept things as they are shown to us.

Biggest example okittenslaying in game… Jora and Svanir.

Svanir became dragon corrupted and went on a rampage killing norn all over. Jora knew it was her duty, as his sister, to stop him. She got our help to track him down and she slew him. The Norn actually look on this legend as exceptional.

The Consortium likely never catered to the grawl, based on their cheiftan’s comments. Quite possibly because they didn’t see any money to be made by bringing grawl to Southsun.

Fair enough, but based on your opinion I would put the Kodan, Largos, Tengu, Centaurs, Dredge and Krait on the same level just slightly below the level of the playable races because of the playable race’s cooperation. I mean we do have many of these helping out the pact, but there hasn’t been much trade off between them that we’ve seen. Still, with this, I wouldn’t consider them to be developing races.

I would say personally that it is an iffy situation and that it could work either way. Because of their status of the game bridging quests there is reasonable doubt as to whether or not they are canon. Much like, as he said, the quest bring characters from the Nightfall story back to the prophecies story, even though nightfall happened years later. I do not think this means that they are not real though. In my opinion, if there was an asuran gate below Kamadan it would make for possibly the simplest way for the Order of Whispers to usher people in and out of Elona, but this is just speculation. Until more information comes out on the matter, though, that is all any of this is.

Whether or not it was worse in the middle and lessened on the way out the landscape was blasted. Green doesn’t appear on the map until the Blazeridge Mountains, even if stuff started growing back, there would be at least 1-2 years of little to no agricultural growth and very few sources of water, with all lakes and rivers either emptied or turned to tar.

I would actually disagree with the map. In GW1 the entrance to Arachni’s Haunt was located on the opposite side of the river.

Rata Sum is a name transferred to an absolutely new city. If you look on the most credible GW1-GW2 maps you’ll notice that the floating city isn’t even near the location of the original ruins. It is closer to the location of Arachni’s Haunt and Oola’s lab, sitting on top of the river there. I’m talking about a city that has survived, that some of it’s older structures are still around, but they have been integrated with new structures as well. Think like most any italian city. What bothers me is that instead of integrating old with new (which is hard, but the reward can be great) they destroyed the old and built new on top of it.

I agree. I was just stating that I wouldn’t consider them for the “which is the best developing race” scenario because they are far beyond a developing race.

Yeah… I was hoping at least one of the cities would be built off of and expanded… Instead they destroyed it all and left ruins for people to find, if that. And no, LA doesn’t count because they just sunk the original city, they didn’t integrate it with everything else.

Only if you consider the dredge a developing race instead of a race that’s pretty much matching the level of accomplishment of the other playable races.

Well not only that Pavees, but they tried to have death make an emotional impact in a world where resurrection was possible with GW1. And that right there, doubled with how it is treated in GW2 leaves much to be desired.

All of it fell into the we don’t know bit. That’s the plain and simple of it. But what bothered me was how every explanation (read speculation) I would get would rub against something else in a nasty way. In all honesty, whoever gets to write the article for resurrection (should that ever happen) has their work cut out for them. But I’m honestly not going to bring anything else back up. I don’t see the point.

K, thx. It’s been a while since I read that article.

I do want to point out that I was in the wrong originally Pavees, I just refused to admit it because of konig’s tone (arrogance on my part). I stated that I preferred to believe that resurrection in GW1 was more of a situation of revival in GW2 because of the lack of any sense of anything related to it in game. In my mind it made little sense, still makes little sense, how you can go from a world with resurrection to a world without, and there is absolutely no remark on the matter. Because of this I made the easy decision to not believe in it, instead of the hard decision and try to speculate why. Konig and Drax did this, although they only made possible answers to 1/4 of my questions, and they did it with a tone that made me unwilling to listen to anything they would say. For my attitude, I will say I am sorry. Whether I was in the right or the wrong doesn’t matter. It is much easier to say with people around who do not constantly judge and demean with their posts. And I have to say, whether or not you meant to demean, Konig, every word to me spoke as such, thus leading to further inflammation on the subject. Just saying.

To be fair, the canthan sailors washing up on shore could have been from attack by Zhaitan’s Armada. BTW, where is this article about the sailors? Just curious. You’ll notice Gandarel and I never stated that the DSD had minions blockading the entire ocean, making travel to cantha impossible. Only that since he’s in the oceans the travel COULD be dangerous. Since there are so many unknowns.

Keep Crab Toss! Please!

I really want those achievements, but all my friends want to try other stuff and I’m struggling to get around to it, lol!

Thank you, at least someone cares. I’ll agree that the way I went about choosing to percieve lore may not have been correct, but kitten, the way that Konig and Drax demean me with every post. I can’t help but lashing back out at them and refuse my wrong in it. That post was more sarcasm at the way in which they seemed to perceive my opinion on the matter.

I don’t take my theory as fact, in fact I never stated a theory. I merely took a quote from a dev saying that the waters are dangerous, a paraphrase of “Here be Monsters”.

Narcemus.1348:

Zhaitan wasn’t the only reason we couldn’t go across to Cantha. They stated somewhere that they were happy with the way that they have set up the DSD because it gives a kind of “Here be monsters” feel to the oceans, giving people plenty of reasons not to cross it.

No one has tested the waters. I’m sure someday someone will, now that Zhaitan’s armada is dead or dying. But until then there is still an unknown danger lurking, and yes the key word is UNKNOWN! We do not know where it is or even what it’s minions/champions look like or what they can do. I merely stated that they are there somewhere and you came in with your theories that they couldn’t leave the deeps and that they would never, ever harm anyone crossing on the surface, which in and of itself is unsubstantiated theory. So please do not even start talking about calling my theories fact. You jumped at attacked a post that was merely a quotation of a dev from some time in the past saying that it was out there.

If you read the third post Drax placed the Dredge in line with the “near playable race level” along with the Krait and Centaurs, which I personally agreed with based on their numbers, technology, and the fact that they have a political system (however corrupt).

And absolutely no answers to my question whatsoever….

Fine, I’m just gonna bury myself in a hole minecraft style. I yeild to the almighty lore gods. Praise be to ye.

I do not believe so. If I remember right this was the animation for a ban period. Although I could be wrong. According to the GW1 wiki the Dhuum animation was for account terminations AND suspensions.

Fine I’m wrong. I don’t know anything about lore, obviously, so please fill my useless void of a head and fix the major voids/gaps in lore that make it so terribly hard to wrap my brain around this problem

Grenth takes out Dhuum and makes it possible to resurrect and create undead. Except he makes controlling undead relatively simple to a specific group of magic users (necromancers) and resurrection kitten near impossible. Resurrection is possible, if you hike to the highest reaches of the Shiverpeaks to find the 1 guru in the entirety of Tyria that knows how to do it (exaggeration, but your point seems to state that there are maybe a couple dozen people in the universe overall that we know of that can cause resurrection, at most, less than 100).

And yet, resurrection is something that random simians in the middle of the Tarnished Coast can perform? I mean I understand that monster skills aren’t necessarily that monster performing that skill, but the end result is the same. One Simian brings another Simian back to life. It’s a little different from the Mantids coming back to life over time in the Charr Homelands to make them seem like those bugs that you stomp on and are still alive.

draxynnic.3719:

. You’d have people trying to figure out ways to get it back for a few decades, but eventually it’s going to just be a historical curiousity, especially if the scientific establishment had an explanation (accurate or not) of why it’s no longer possible.

Except it isn’t a historical curiosity. It is just a completely blacked out void. No one mentions it’s absence, no one mentions it’s previous existence. The only explanation that makes any sense to me is Lyssa came back and blanked it from their memories of it, because seriously it never existed in GW2, whereas it did in GW1.

Heck, there’s still 1 dwarf alive who came from those times. And I’m sure his build depended from person to person, but he rezzed my butt more times than I can care to imagine (god bless Unyielding Aura). But that doesn’t matter, he’s now a brainwashed dwarven drone, he wouldn’t care about resurrection.

Another item that does not fit with the current non-existence is the whole Baelfire resurrection. I will admit to having not ran the dungeon, so feel free to tell me if I’m wrong, but the player has to stop the ritual to prevent his resurrection. If you guys are at all correct on the Dhuum situation, this should not be necessary. Just grab some popcorn and sit in the corner and be prepared to laugh as their ritual blows up in their faces.

Yeah, 20 years could have brought in a new generation of Ascalonians, minus those that were exiled with Rurik, minus those that died of disease, starvation, and just plain lack of resources in a withering and dying land. The charr had a much easier time raising the next generation, you can’t deny that. They had fertile land for grazing cattle, homes, shelters, and their only major enemy at the time was trapped behind a wall in the south except for a few freedom fighters that attacked caravans once and a while. I personally can’t think of a scenario, even with a post WiK Kryta assisting (even if Adlebern agreed to Krytan help, which I doubt he would) I don’t think that both of their rattled armies (after major wars) would have been able to push out the charr and rebuild Ascalon as a human kingdom. Heck, I bet if Kryta tried to come to their assistance Adlebern would march his army up there and tell them to march their kittens back to their own kingdom.

I can tell you now, like 80% of those videos were from people egging it on in order to get a vid of them being killed by Dhuum. Just saying. Other than those types of circumstances I never saw anyone get Dhuumed in game.

Yes, but you know what sits between Cantha and Tyria now that Zhaitan’s dead and his armada is slowly being destroyed? Seeing Cantha is highly unlikely to be on anyone’s top 10 list (racewise), but aside from that there be a giant ED in them waters, somewhere. The only reason the DSD hasn’t stopped any ships that we’ve seen, IMO, is because no one ever goes far enough off shore because of Zhaitan’s old fleet. All I am stating, and have ever stated, is that the DSD might be a problem if they try to sail ships to Cantha. All I have stated, I am not sure why everyone is ganging up on me for such a small statement that holds some possibilities of truth…

So… Condemning all your people to “eternal” undeath so that you can keep your enemy from winning is good? (I write “eternal” because we do not know if/when the curse will ever be lifted or if Adlebern knew it could be liften at all) In my mind, straight up death would have been a better option than having your soul ripped out of your body and permanently trapped in a nightmarish world of charr constantly rampaging (remembering that every living thing appears as charr to the ghosts). Try as you want, by the end of even prophecies the view of him as Stalwart Defender was waning, you just didn’t want to see it.

As for the charr numbers, there are a lot of charr. I mean we know that the charr own what was called the Charr Homelands in GW1 plus loads of land east of the Blazeridge Mountains. I highly doubt that the armies that they originally sent were near their full forces, although I am certain that the death of their armies at Orr did have a major impact on their numbers. So 20 years pass, you do realize that this is plenty of time for a full new generation of charr to fill in the ranks.

As for what I saw in the storyline, it was the same that Rurik saw. We lost the wall, and we were able to beat them back out of sheer luck (repairing a trebuchet and using it to destroy a large part of their forces). Then we pushed ahead, only to get badly outnumbered and forced to retreat to Nolani, where we have to break a small siege force only to find that the CAPITAL has fallen. Not just any city, the capital city, most likely the safest place around, at least I know I would make my capital the safest, and the charr have demolished it. Sure we wipe out the forces, but you really think this was a winning war? The army itself never made any headway, only small bands of soldiers thinking outside of the box, and those small bands eventually die out.

You do realize that the reason that no Tyrian has attempted to cross the ocean is because Zhaitan’s fleet prevented it right? No one has any clues as to what is going on with the DSD mainly because through the entire timeline we have (minus Halloween, Lost Shores, Wintersday, F&F, and Southsun) took place while Zhaitan’s navy blockaded pretty much the entirety of Tyria’s southern trade. The DSD wasn’t around until, best guess, 51 years after Zhaitan. Plus I never stated that the DSD made travel there impossible. I merely stated that the DSD give the oceans an ominous feel, which is what the devs wanted. I stated I do not remember where the article I read says this, just that I remember someone stating that they enjoyed the “Here be Monsters” feel that it gives to the oceans. Humans didn’t stop sailing the seas when they had this written on their maps, and I wouldn’t expect Tyrians to either. But to say that the DSD’s minions couldn’t come up on the surface and wrap itself around a ship Kraken style is really limiting the DSD, especially when we know next to nothing about it.

I am overreacting? You don’t think that if there was even a handful of recorded instances of resurrection in our human history dating to less than 3 centuries ago that people wouldn’t look back and try to figure out how it happened and how they could replicate it? I mean you stated yourself these were upper crust and it wasn’t in some back room, it was very public. You don’t think the charr would see it as a military advantage to bring their soldiers back to life instead of having to constantly bring in replacements? I mean yeah, you are right about the sylvari, they wouldn’t know or have a clue what it means. Heck they still don’t even seem to really understand what death means, let alone resurrection. Still it is relevant. I understand why you think that a bunch of people with their backs against the wall constantly watching the deaths of their loved ones would think the possibility of resurrection is not relevant to them.

Go ahead and call me Obsidian 2.0 (I couldn’t care less on your opinion of myself) but at least I give a crap enough about BOTH lores (not just GW1 lore) to point out the need for some explanation on a subject that has just literally been left dangling.

So then Obsidian, you don’t think that Adlebern would go insane? You think that he, in reality, after another 20 years of war and the eventual slipping away of his kingdom he wouldn’t have had issues? I mean in 1072 Ascalon was broken. They survived because the charr were stupid and just rushed right through to get to Orr only to be obliterated. Because of this they survived, honestly mostly through guerrilla tactics. They had a few tactical holds, but they were losing land by the day, as was seen in the Nolani Academy mission. What was left of the wall did not in any way stop charr from coming through the many breach points. Twenty years pass. They hold on because of our actions constantly putting the charr in disarray. After Prophecies we kill the Flame Legion gods (aka titans) which forces them to slow down their assault and re consolidate power. Then in EotN (I realize by now we’re getting into the lore you choose not to believe in), we slow the charr down again by helping instigate a rebellion. So up until 1078 the charr have been tied up in our shenanigans keeping them from laying out any full scale assault on Ascalon, this doesn’t mean the land is 100% safe. Ascalon has most likely suffered greatly under the hands of the charr, just not against the full military might. 12 years later the charr come down in full force, Adlebern already seems to know that failure is possible, which would be why he had Ebonhawke created (again lore you would rather forget). He sees the army surround his city, and starts realizing that everything that he has worked for in his life is about to be taken away from him. That his people will die and his enemies will succeed, and he has no lineage that will keep his legacy going. In that minute he makes the decision to make certain that the charr will never truly own Ascalon. He breaks his sword creating the foefire and cursing every living human in Ascalon to quite possibly “eternally” protect the land from anything living.

EDIT: Don’t get me wrong. I loved GW1. I still get on pre-searing every once and a while to listen to the music and run around Barradin Estate and Ashford and Ascalon City just because they are about my favorite locations in the whole Guild Wars universe (Second only to Shing Jea because of my love of their portrayal of that asian inspired continent). That being said, unlike you I do not see the transformation of Adlebern in GW1 to the Adlebern of GW2 to be an unexpected leap. In fact, as I stated, I saw it as exactly what I expected to come of him, even way back then. Sure it isn’t quite what we wanted to occur. I would have loved to see a re-established kingdom of Ascalon with a white gleaming northern wall and a beautiful Serenity Temple. But you don’t always get exactly what you want out of a story. You seem to think that the way you want the scenario to play out is the only one that makes sense, but sometimes the exact opposite makes much more sense.

I’ll admit being wrong about Zhu Hanuku, sorry. But I have not claimed that GW1 didn’t state resurrection was a reality. Merely that I choose not to believe it because of the TERRIBLE way that it has been explained and then just suddenly dropped with the inclusion of GW2.

All I am saying is…

There was resurrection and now there isn’t, and no one even gives a hoot. This does not make any sense.

The use of magic has progressed greatly in the last few centuries, no one has even TRIED to improve resurrection magic. In fact, people seem to have let it die off, which makes no sense. People fear death, this is a reality, and yet no one at all ever possibly thought to progress resurrection because of this?

The whole Grenth thing has always been a cheap band-aid placed over how resurrection even works. I personally wish they had just let it be so we could just pretend that it was always a mechanics thing and we didn’t have to try to make backwards and round-about ways for it to fit into a world where death is still final.

I love how everyone attibutes that fighting style to Kilroy Stonekin… Prince Rurik was sporting that style long before the dwarves :P Kilroy prolly just thought he looked cool doing it and emulated :P

His sin wasn’t mass murder?

We do not know that Ascalon city was the last human held area in Ascalon. In fact the ghosts found throughout Ascalon seem to point to the idea that there may have been some other settlements that were being besieged at the same time. Also, not everyone in Ascalon City was dead when he caused the Foefire, far from it. The charr had just breached the gate and the Ascalonian soldiers were dropping weapons and running for their lives from a group that far outnumbered them. Now do I doubt that they would have all been killed by the charr? Absolutely not. I am certain of it, but that would honestly be preferable to what their own king did. He not only chose to nuke his own country, condemning every living being in the country (considering that ebonhawke is on the very outskirts) to both immediate death, and to have their souls tied to the land possibly forever in a state of total madness.

And yes, for years before they came out with Ghosts of Ascalon and before they showed me his portrayal in GW2, I called him King Adledbrains because of the fact that he was most obviously insane and stupid. He walked into the charred ruins of his capital and said, “We Can Beat Them!” and his son looked at him and said, “Are You Crazy?!?” (complete and total paraphrase). And the Ascalonians weren’t “allowed” to follow Rurik, they were exiled from Ascalon. There’s a difference, they were forced to leave EVERYTHING behind if they left and never return. Why? Because he hated Krytans, other human beings who were offering him and his people shelter. Neither side of this war is good. I mean yes there were completely innocent individuals caught up in the crossfire, but both sides caused major atrocities. Adlebern wasn’t just a prideful man. He was a mass murdering psychopath, with a tenancy to be prideful.

Even worse, they brought the humans to a fully dragon-corrupted Tyria and thought it was a better place. I understand that the dragons were sleeping by then, but still…

Whatever it is, it didn’t follow them to Tyria (that we can tell), although it may very well be exactly what they are fighting right now that is keeping them from being in any contact with Tyria.

Side-thought: Perhaps the gods won, but the devastation created by whatever battle they had was so great that the world they came from was pretty much worthless. So they had to go somewhere else for humanity to even have a home. It could also explain why they are so reticent to join in on the war against the Elder Dragons, because they fear doing what they did before to another world. This idea doesn’t leave any cool gaps though…

Frosch, I don’t think you can absolve Adlebern of his sins by saying the charr caused the Foefire. Adlebern had chances to leave, to give his people a chance to live life in another country, but he let his arrogance and his blind hatred hold him and a large portion of his people there until the bitter end (which he doomed them to). The charr aren’t sinless, but many other people deserve blame for the situation as well.

You think because he’s called the Deep Sea Dragon means that he’s only going to do stuff deep under the ocean not on the surface? That’s like saying Zhaitan’s only going to have minions on the ground, none in the air…

I don’t remember the game ever stating that they were resurrected, or that we killed them (which we did do in mechanics terms). Remember the storyline in Winds of Change where we are supposed to go through and just knock out guards so we can get Miku’s brother out. We kill all those people when it comes to mechanics, but according to lore we merely knocked them out.

I don’t think the Ascalonians are even stuck in their own state of mind. Many Ascalonians had given up and were retreating. I personally doubt that they would be preserved in the state that they are in today. IMO the Ascalonian ghosts are all tied to the mind of the man that holds their souls here in the first place, Adlebern. If you look at the Ascalonians stuck in his mindset, a grief stricken madman, they kinda make sense.

I used to hate killing Ascalonians, although I haven’t yet brought my human into Ascalon. I have to try and push away my old feelings and realize how my characters are thinking. My charr has no problem blowing them away, and my sylvari only thought to save charr lives that could be put to better use fighting the Elder Dragons. When I take my human there, who is descended of a certain Ascalonian hero, I want to feel the mixed emotions that he feels. Knowing that to get through he has to kill them, but at the same time feel the pity for the way they are trapped and slight anger at the charr for all they have done. He won’t be a friend of these charr, but he’s smart enough not to start a war with them over it.

Obsidian.1328:

The Canthan district doesn’t exist now…you just agreed with me on that. I don’t know what you’re getting at there.

All I think he’s saying here is that the fact that it is currently “The Great Collapse” doesn’t change the fact that it WAS the Canthan/Arts District. Konig can be pretty picky about things in certain respects though, I remember having a 20 post long fight with him about how the Maguuma Wastes are different from the Jungle because of the fact that the landscape has transformed over years. It came to no real conclusion except me being kitten ed off with him for arguing over a side comment, lol.

Obsidian.1328:

And the snarky thing, well maybe I was but I certainly didn’t mean it to offend. Sorry if I did. :/ And what’s your beef with WP?? I’ve only seen a few of his vids, but I don’t recall seeing any blatant misinformation. Maybe I’m wrong, who knows. I suppose it would be better if he was here to defend himself.

I wanna add in here. I do believe that it was WP that provoked the original “The Pale Tree’s an Elder Dragon” theory. At the very least promoted that the binary at the end of a golem’s dialogue in Crucible of Eternity said “Pale Tree”. Someone else will have to back me up on this though, because I am not certain, and I am not going to watch all of his video’s to try and find it.

Alright, So Primordus comes out from underground, the area is near the water’s edge so DSD can join in, and everyone duke’s it out. I would say Jormag could easily tie up the DSD’s minions, as long as the Destroyers don’t melt the ice. DSD, Mordremoth, and Primordus might have an advantage because their minions didn’t have minds prior to being created, so they may not be able to be doubly corrupted like Alpha was. Although in the fight between the ED’s itself I would probably give it to Kralkatorrik with 1 big unless. If Jormag’s mind is strong enough to take on another elder dragon, I would give the playing field to Jormag. On the simple notion that if an asura, however amazing he might be, was able to control Kralkatorrik’s mind, then another elder dragon, with an elder dragon as a minion, would totally kick the others’ tails in. And here is where the fun speculation that chris wanted begins

Zhaitan wasn’t the only reason we couldn’t go across to Cantha. They stated somewhere that they were happy with the way that they have set up the DSD because it gives a kind of “Here be monsters” feel to the oceans, giving people plenty of reasons not to cross it.

I would agree on the centaurs not making it, but not because they are evil. We know from GW1 that there were “friendly” centaurs in Elona. The reason I don’t think they will make it is simple… Swimming. Let’s just say I can’t see a horse swimming in the world the way they currently have it, it just won’t seem natural.

We do not have any names for the corruption that the DSD makes because we haven’t run into it. It would be like theorizing that Primordus’ minions are called Lava because they are fiery rock, when in fact they are Destroyers. It is best to just wait it out and hold out for SOLID information.

I agree with the OP. A more unified Day/Night cycle, Weather that changes, a night sky that you can trace the constellations in… On the day/night cycle, I find it personally ridiculous that I’ll leave Divinity’s Reach during the day and enter Shaemoor at night… How long does it take to walk through a gate?