Yeah, I have to agree with these guys that if you want to argue that Bloodstone Magic is evil, then you have to argue that All Tyrian Magic is evil. I mean basically Bloodstone Magic was just all of the magic in the world at the time it was created pulled within and then later released. This makes the Bloodstone itself little more than a vacuum cleaner that the gods decided to switch from suck to blow.
The biggest disappointment I can see coming from the Living Story system taking over the expansions is the fact that so much is lost in the fact that it is temporary content. My last character will be able to kill Zhaitan, but maybe by that time have to skip over a dragon on to the next? There has to be a little give and take between the “everything’s temporary” and “permanent expansions” models. I mean, otherwise new players get lost for reasons mentioned before about Scarlet. When you are just now coming into this content, what’s your reason for taking Scarlet down?
I would like to make a small annotation on one of Konig’s statements.
You state that all magic has been through the dragons at least once, and I just want to note that we are saying all Tyrian Magic. The magic of the gods is divine and most likely has no relation to the Elder Dragons, unless more information comes out on the subject.
I do have to admit that of all the things I had thought to be Scarlet’s plan for the tower, the veil had never really entered my mind, but it could be a very powerful tool. Especially if it could be mobilized.
Yeah, I’m sensing a bit of charr propaganda here…
The effect of the Searing really cannot be overstated. Pyre probably said it best with his comment of “You can rebuild Ascalon… when you can eat ash and sleep in flame”.
The breaching of the Great Wall was actually a relatively minor effect of the Searing – as demonstrated by how Ascalon was still able to use it as an effective defense during the time of Prophecies. What the Searing did, however, was kill at least half of Ascalon’s population, both military and civilian, as well as all or most of their means of producing the resources needed to carry out a war. Now, the charr lost an army in the Cataclysm, but their homeland and civilian population was pretty much untouched.
It’s hard to come up with a historical analogy for just how one-sided that war was when you think about it. The best I can think of is if the US had nuked not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but had decided from the outset to nuke every major city and piece of farmland in Japan and then left, and then after what was left of the Japanese had crawled out from their ruins and shelters and started attempting to rebuild, Communist China had invaded.
It’s a miracle that Ascalon held out for the generation that it did, particularly when that xenophobic moron Adelbern refused any assistance from potential allies. With that record of resilience, it’s plausible that if Adelbern had been killed in the Searing and replaced with someone like Barradin or Rurik with their sanity intact and without an overwhelming prejudice against the other human kingdoms, it’s possible that the front line would have still been at the Wall, not in the Fields of Ruin.
actually I think a pretty perfect example of this exists in history of the real world, which would be the European advance into the Americas, some historians estimate that up to 90% of the native American tribes were killed off by European germs (diseases that Europeans had built up and immunity to, these diseases are generally thought to have come from the domesticate animals of Europe) If you are interested in this here is a good book: Guns, Germs, and Steel
It is a good analogy, minus the complete and utter destruction of the ecosystem.
I would note that not everything tied to Abaddon has 6 eyes. The titans that you mention do not have 6 eyes. In fact they have a myriad of numbers of eyes ranging from apparently none, to two, six, or maybe up to 10 in the instance of the Icy Brute. Plus there are things found in-game in GW1 that are 6 eyed that we are told, from my understanding, are NOT related to Abaddon. The biggest examples being the Jade armors, bows, and cloaks. I would state that 6 eyes definitely represents evil in the world of Tyria, but as much as they built it up in Nightfall, it does not always represent Abaddon’s presence.
As to Abaddon and Chaos magic, it has always seemed a little weird that chaos beasts share the same skin as the shades in game. The shades are very closely tied to the Underworld, and thus necromancy. I would say, IMO, that the presence of necromantic minions in chaos magic facility is just a way of showing that this chaos magic distorts all the types of magic within the world. When in the facility you can see the effects of all the magical professions in one space, practically.
As to talk about crystals, I find it interesting that you bring them up. Crystals are known already to hold properties for holding, controlling and being conduits for magic. If my theory is correct, then the leylines that we are learning about could possibly just be veins of crystal that web through the depths of Tyria and act as conduits for the magic seeping out of the Elder Dragons or other magical items such as the bloodstones.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the magical ley lines were related to the Elder Dragons originally. I mean they are one of the sources of magic found in the world. They seep the magic out and it has to go somewhere, and there are “natural conduits” which the magic flows through. It could be similarly occurring with the bloodstones, which must also seep out magic of some sort, for it to be available to the races.
No zwiers, she didn’t care if the colossus escaped, before we got there she had already gotten what she wanted from it.
It could just be that the minions of the DSD are just too far removed from the reactor for them to be effected by the chaos magic of the reactor explosion. Because of this other aquatic creatures are ported in.
Very good read Konig. I’d agree with most of what you said. I might differ on a few things with DSD and Mordremoth, but being as they are highly speculative there’s no real point in debating them.
No one is trying to censor you, having read this entire thread. The only thing that I can read from your posts and everyone else’s is simple. The way in which you wrote your sentence, however you meant it, reads as from an in-game perspective. None of this really hurts what you wrote in your OP, it was merely someone noting that it could have possibly been better phrased in order to bring across the idea you were aiming for. Although I have to say, I’m not exactly sure what type of debate or speculation you were trying to create here. Your OP seemed more like a statement rather than a spark for conversation.
I want to say I would be surprised if the Toxic Alliance wouldn’t completely fall into shambles once the krait learn that they’ve been tricked, but I don’t know that they’ll go this deep. It would be a great way to set up a chain reaction with some fallout from the Molten Alliance and possible abandonment by the Aetherblades.
I’ve personally thought that something like this, forcing everything she has been working towards to crash down on her would be a very useful tool to help the player-base get some satisfaction from the end of her story.
Perhaps this has something to do with the invasions themselves? Although I see some of them are in regions that were never invaded….
Some of us who voted for Kiel really wanted the Fall of Abaddon fractal (even if it probably wouldn’t have lived up to our expectations). But we weren’t shallow enough to vote solely based on the WP/BLK prices or the fractals, we instead voted based on the character of the individual.
Commence Trolling on Kiel Voter
The Fall of Abaddon fractal could very easily have also tapped into the ley lines topic as well. I mean for all we know when Abaddon was smashed into the ground at the Mouth of Torment, he could well have busted open one, causing some of the ill effects in the Desolation.
Konig Des Todes.2086
Given how Fort Trinity is constructed in less than a few weeks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infinite Coil Reactor – which spans the full complex – was built and operational within a few months.
No disrespect intended but Fort Trinity was a abandoned Charr fortress (judging by the design) that the Pact re-purposed for there use
I think a majority of what we see is what was built within the span of a few months. There are human ruins found, specifically in Trahearne’s little office space, and the location has very little reason to have been of charr construction based on their general region. Although I have not read Sea of Sorrow’s so I am unsure if that book shines a little more light on the subject.
The Inquest, of all people, would be more than willing to let whoever built parts of it for them die of exhaustion, as long as there were results faster because of it.
Willing to bet Konig?
Ha, Ha, Ha, J/K. I’ve already lost enough gold on account of Scarlet.
Well, technically Tyria is a part of the Mists, as the Mists is and creates all things, thus it is already “copying itself”.
~snip to avoid max message length~
The charr’s recognition of the Destroyers as gods came because of the Flame Legion’s need to seize control of a bad situation. The human NPC’s killed their gods and they needed something to keep the charr under their control so they found these new fiery beings that were very strong and chose them. No member of the flame legion every appeared to truly think them gods. They just hoped to use them as a means to an end. Because of this, there is no proof that they existed prior. We could do what if’s all day, but the lore as we have it states otherwise. And I have to remind you that this lore comes from an extremely ancient and long lived race. If theory is correct they have survived as a race/civilization for 10’s of thousands of years, so you would think they would know a bit about the world, even if they don’t know everything.
As for Asura, pretty sure Primordus would have made the depths of tyria a very inhospitable territory. Not to say that primitive asura couldn’t survive, but it’s not very likely. But anyways, the devs have spoken many times that the ED’s cycle included sleep, awaken, wipe all life, sleep, rinse, repeat. Some life may have survived, but at the very least you can’t disprove the notion that magic may have adverse effects of evolution in a world like this.
To me the exact numbers have never been important in the GW universe. I killed thousands of afflicted, white mantle, and undead individually, but the exact numbers was never the point. GW2 is muuuuuuuch better when it comes to proportions on these things. I mean me and a few friends held Lion’s Arch with the help of like 20 NPC’s against well over 100-200 foes. In GW2, at least there are some NPC’s to help us along.
I assume your problem, CHIPS, was with the clockwork invasions. I assume this because I haven’t seen thousands, let alone millions, of enemies in any other update. there’s always less than 100 I’d say (with the exception of this fortress which I would hope would have more). I look at those invasions and I see them as proportions not numbers. There are 20 Molten alliance individuals that appear in an area, versus hundreds of Aetherblades or hundreds of the twisted minions. This reads to me that her army is mostly backed by Aetherblades and twisted minions, and she has a few remainders of MA around to push into combat. And I take that along-side the players around me which I see as the combined good of Tyria fighting back. If you require NPC’s to be there fighting your battles for you fine, but leave the rest of us be.
Okay, I have a crazy piece of speculation that has been rumbling around in my head the last hour until I could get it into some sort of coherency.
I have been thinking about the power held within the Obelisks, preferring to believe that the magic within them is their own natural magic and not Mordremoth’s corruption. I started thinking about the Bloodstone and it’s creation by the Seers and started thinking about another race that was extremely strong with magic and the infusion of magic into objects (aka preliminary creation of magi-tech) and I thought of the mursaat. I know mursaat and seers have been done to death, but I think the idea holds some possibilities. We know that the mursaat and seers were at odds at one point in time, quite possibly around the time of the creation of the Bloodstone. I have to wonder if the Obelisks weren’t made as some possible counter to the Bloodstone in order to protect mursaat magic from the effects of the Bloodstone, or perhaps a weapon against the Seers in their war. This seems extremely speculative until you bring krait mythology into the mixture.
The krait aren’t mentioned by any legends as having existed back in the days of the last dragon rising, but neither are Karka, Djinn, or a few other races that we’ve been learning about in the past few months. So my speculation rests on the idea that perhaps the mursaat used the krait as guards for their new technology, whatever it’s use. 10,000 years ago, the krait could well have been a very primitive race, and thus easily manipulated into doing what the mursaat wanted, very similar to the grawl. After the mursaat/seer war, the mursaat came back shortly to order the krait to protect these objects before “phasing out”. I know it sounds a little crazy, but in my mind this, over 10,000 years could have grown from pure historical fact into religious fanaticism easily. As one of my favorite books states. “Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades into myth,” eventually the memory of a strong and ancient race who guided them disappearing and leaving the obelisk in their care grows into a race of fanatics that believe that their gods will return to bring them to the supremacy that they deserve, being the god’s chosen.
I’d value anyone’s input on this theory. I understand that it rests on very few pieces of actual lore, but it’s fun nonetheless, and because the magic of the bloodstones was already taken away from the gods, I do not feel that it changes any more of the way in which the gods are perceived.
Many people, like myself, find it extremely unbelievable that the krait would listen to Scarlet or the Nightmare Court. Their xenophobia has been so far reaching that it states in one of the explanations of the race (old blog post) that they think themselves far superior to any race. They believe that once their prophets return they will swallow the world in ocean and all other inferior races will be destroyed or be their slaves. So why would a race that believes they are superior to all others listen to some plant people who say they can give them a god.
I think the biggest problem comes from the fact that we have had no interaction with the krait Oratuss (religious ruling class) but from what we’ve been told, their reaction should not have been what we got.
What makes you think they wouldn’t accept help from a lesser race who wants to help them bring forth a krait prophet? If they’re right, and the prophet comes back, there is absolutely no downside for the krait, and so long as there’s still a plus for the race being wrong there’s literally no reason to say no.
Most people that don’t believe it seem to think xenophobic = too stupid to accept a good deal.
To me, their xenophobia has thus far been at the level of “We’re far superior to everyone else.” What is hard for me to fathom is why a race that believes this would think that an inferior race could do what they could not, and bring back their prophets.
The charr were similar in some ways, originally, but we got to see their religious structure and the holes within it. This made a believable transition for me from being an entirely evil race to one that is flawed but usable. The problem I’m having is we’ve had no interaction with the religious group which has chosen to do this. We do not know if they were just duped, or if they are logical fanatics like the Flame Legion and are willing to do whatever in order to increase their power. I think some more interaction than a single piece of dialogue from a single member of the Oratuss could put me at ease, but as of this moment, everything is just wrong for me. I’m fine with accepting that what has happened, has happened, but I think the biggest thing for me is the upcoming view of what happens after this all falls apart. If the krait and NC are still chummy after the krait find out they’ve been duped, I don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach it anymore. I find it far more believable that the actions of creating this alliance will have repercussions for both the Oratuss, the Nightmare Court, and possibly even Scarlet.
(edited by Narcemus.1348)
Many people, like myself, find it extremely unbelievable that the krait would listen to Scarlet or the Nightmare Court. Their xenophobia has been so far reaching that it states in one of the explanations of the race (old blog post) that they think themselves far superior to any race. They believe that once their prophets return they will swallow the world in ocean and all other inferior races will be destroyed or be their slaves. So why would a race that believes they are superior to all others listen to some plant people who say they can give them a god.
I think the biggest problem comes from the fact that we have had no interaction with the krait Oratuss (religious ruling class) but from what we’ve been told, their reaction should not have been what we got.
I find it really interesting that talking to the scholar who does the Krait Obelisk scavenger hunt afterwards. She says that the magical energy coming off of these Obelisks are reminiscent to her of the Bloodstone Shards that the Priory have been studying. This tells me two things.
1. This event is likely taking place after the Arah Explorable path, unless Bloodstone Shards were in the Priory’s hands prior to that path.
2. And more importantly. There is some connection when it comes to power between Bloodstones and krait Obelisks. I do want to point out that she states straight out that they are not made of the same material, but it still adds some intrigue as to what they are when just a shard of an Obelisk is similar enough in power to a Bloodstone Shard to, in her own words, “make her wary.”
Probably so you don’t have an advantage with the new leaderboard, although I agree it’ll probably really suck for you. I’m sorry, I know I would have been kitten ed if they cut out my Achievement points when they included that leaderboard. The only possible advantage that I can see is you’ll have time to get used to the new Mists Instability feature before jumping into 20+ levels of it…
I’m personally excited about his update as well. I’ve been looking for more reasons to do Fractals, and this will definitely work, and best yet, it won’t be zerg requiring content! I am also glad to get a chance to do the LS dungeons in fractals. Maybe now I’ll finally have a chance to do the Aetherblade Retreat!
I would say it is more likely a vault for the bankers nearby. I don’t personally see the connection between the two door like icons.
The Inquest were also always being hunted down by groups of peacemakers, which are the asura police force. They may have been legitimate at one point in time, but it is likely that they have lost that legitimacy after the conclusion of the Crucible of Eternity dungeon. Zojja promised to use the evidence she gathered to force the Arcane Council against them.
The Flame Legion is at war with every legion not under their command, I would say that is as close to civil war as you can get, especially since they are able to hold their own against all others (their final defeat doesn’t seem emminent until the inclusion of the Pact in the Charr war efforts).
The bandits are also very strong and cunning, although I will admit that they are the furthest thing from a Civil War in all of this. Their numbers really aren’t enough to try and force any claim, they are more just used as pawns in order to attempt to shift influence away from the queen.
Everytime that I have done this area I have started off with either just myself or a small group of 4 or 5 people who were not partied up with me or related from what I can tell. We struggled a bit with the first level, especially the mine room, but as we moved upwards our group kept growing and growing until we had a decent sized zerg by the time we reached the jungle wurm and from there we cleared our way from the top. And I’m not even on a huge server, IoJ, but I might also just be lucky with my timing as well.
Even if Zhaitan was the first Wyld Hunt of our characters, there is still room for another Wyld Hunt to bring us to the next Dragon. If I remember right, it is mentioned in game that some sylvari receive Wyld Hunts after awakening once they have finished their current one. I’m interested in seeing what the Dream seems to pose as the next greatest threat.
Okay, I’ll admit that the last one is poorly worded. When I was talking about the source, my point was in commenting on the previous posters idea of a Tyrian source of magic which is equal or greater to that of the Elder Dragons. My point was to state that the Elder Dragons are the “source” in this regard as they are what leaks magic back into Tyria. My point was never to state that the Elder Dragons were the original source of magic in Tyria, just that they are what leaks magic back into the word, although I can see how what I stated sounds like the opposite.
As to my first paragraph, I was merely stating that the last 10,000 years has been enough time for what we see for races to evolve. Even going from frogs to Hylek would take much more then 10,000 years here on earth, so magic or Mists must be involved in some way.
You can actually attach more photo’s, it is just a strangely long process. I attach a photo, and they I click on Preview and after the preview you can click attach again and add another and repeat the process until you are done.
10,000 years is more than enough time for 5 sapient races (and multiple lesser races) to evolve in Tyria, because we are relatively certain that the current 5 evolved between the last awakening and now (minus humanity which is alien to Tyria). The common theory is that the magic which is infused with Tyria has helped to speed up the process of evolution, either that or all of the current sentient races were brought out of the Mists by various god figures and such.
As to the source of magic on Tyria, it is the Elder Dragons themselves. We’ve had it directly from Angel McCoy that the Elder Dragons seep out their magic as they sleep. This means that the magic of the Elder Dragons is the same as the magic of Tyria. So as they sleep slowly the world becomes more saturated with magic than they are, and thus they seem to awaken in order to consume again.
They haven’t put the new soundtrack that they added for this update on their soundcloud yet. I can tell you that there are some GW1 tracks in there, but there is at least 1 definite new piece. I would know, I have the GW1 and 2 soundtracks memorized.
Note, I did not say that the changes they made with the gods was bad. I merely answered the poster’s question about the situation. I think what they did with re-explaining history has added an interesting twist to the lore of the game, in some regards.
(edited by Narcemus.1348)
What didn’t change about human god lore? They did(n’t) create magic. They did(n’t) create the bloodstones. They did(n’t) create the world. That right there brings the gods down from being these much more monolithic beings to something a bit simpler, even if they are still massively powerful.
Have you counted the amount of mammary glands on a charr female? I think she might gut you before you finish :P
The honest-to-god way that I got involved in the lore was straight through the wiki. I played through GW Prophecies-Eye of the North and had a few years til GW2 came out, so I decided to just get on the GWW and hit the random page button over and over and over again reading articles, many of which were pointless, but others which brought forth perspectives I had never seen before. Sadly, this also lead to some mis-understandings of the lore on my own part, but it also built me up to know a lot of what I do know.
Yeah, honestly I’m surprised that the NC/Scarlet have seemed to create more of an outrage with you than the whole krait involvement. The krait involvement was the breaking point for me. Even if they explained things about them it still broke the view I had of the krait that I had at this point, and in my mind demeaned them a little bit. I hope that they get saved, but only future story will tell.
I’m just saying that you are claiming this as one of your biggest claims about how wrong she is, and you are saying that the players HAVE to prove you wrong, but you yourself could quite well be wrong. I agree that there are holes in the story, but I don’t agree that these holes you are pointing out are a bad thing. I am far from a Scarlet fan-boy, but I cannot help but disagree with you on the points you bring up. Plus, if you read that dead drop, all it hints to is that Scarlet pushed the alliance together, which I stated in my last post, was likely her only involvement within until after the alliance collapsed.
SNIP
Can you prove to me 100% that Scarlet created the Aetherblade tech, the Molten Alliance tech, or the Hybrid? Because otherwise you are also making massive assumptions.
From what we saw in the Aetherblade Retreat, it seems highly likely that the Inquest were supplying them their weapons. Similarly, the Dead Drops pointed more towards the Molten Alliance working together to create their technology and never mentions Scarlet as anything more than the mind behind the alliance itself.
I wouldn’t say tradeable in the since of BLTC, more likely create a scenario where people can put the less valuable (bloodstone dust/bricks) into the Mystic Force and transmute them into the more valuable (dragonite/empyreal). They already have ways to transmute lesser metals into greater ones, and even at a loss it’s more worthwhile than just filling up the bank.
The nightmare court within the tower speak about “making the krait’s prophet”. This could easily be interpreted as the Hybrid being a NC creation, and have some validity behind it. Plus, Scarlet’s talk in the cinematic makes it very clear that whatever she wanted from this alliance, she got. This would mean it’s highly unlikely that the Hybrid was something she wanted (since we killed it).
I’m not going to waste my time (or yours) explaining it and trying to go against the general agenda of some people here have to bash Anet and GW2 every chance they get
what “Agenda” scarlet is just plain bad writing that rips off better character and has zero motivation as of yet and, no the websites stories don’t count they still explain nothing and, are not in game so i don’t see it as in part of it.
In my opinion, web sites do count, regardless of if you think so or not.
You are allowed to have your opinion, I am allowed to have mine.
The difference is when I express my opinion I am ridiculed and insulted constantly. The ‘Agenda’ is bashing anything and everything that is GW2 and is not limited to anything except the game itself and the people who (god forbid) actually enjoy it.
I think, personally, that the website stories are a good idea at times. The back story on Braham, Rox, and Marjory were good for giving more detail on their characters, and were enjoyable to read. What is annoying is “What Scarlet Saw”. This story was good and explained a lot about Scarlet, but it is almost vital to understanding her. Because of this, the information found in “What Scarlet Saw” should have made it’s way into the game somehow. Many players have met some of the characters she worked with, so it could easily have become a scavenger hunt to find out who she was, and use that to figure out what she might be up to.
lol, personally thanks to Meta-trains, I have almost twice as many Dragonite as Empyreal. Sadly they have decided that we can’t trade worthless things for worthwhile things (TOO MUCH BLOODSTONE BRICKS) so they just fill up our bank space…
This is true, the TV shows that have made it the longest honestly started out with the method mentioned above and evolved within their lifespan in order to make their story seem more impact-ful. People’s needs, when it comes to things like this, have changed. They need to feel like their character is making a real difference within the world. In fact, that was mentioned within the Manifesto Video, “You save the town and it stays saved, and the people remember you for it.” Some of that sight has been lost on 10 minute attack cycles, but it has made it’s way into the Living Story. Flame and Frost was, IMO, a good example of this. We went in and we creamed the alliance that was pushing the refugees out of their homes, and up until the point that we meet Scarlet we feel that we had destroyed them. I would say the same occured when we foiled the Aetherblade’s attempt to snatch a council seat in LA, and I honestly felt that way when I completed Clockwork Chaos invasions (although sadly not the dungeon). I think this current event makes it feel more like we haven’t done anything, but I think this might be a bit of that “silver-tounged” aspect of Scarlet finally making it into the game. I think she’s trying to make our players feel like they have failed, when they really have succeeded in savings many, many lives and stopped more corruption from entering the Council system within one of the largest cities in game.
That doesn’t change the fact that in an ever-evolving WvW map you can get multiple for every tower captured. Towers are by far the easiest structure to capture (not control points, structure) and they reward multiple empyreals. I’m not complaining about this, but the reward should be more than one, especially when you need 100 to make the usable empyreal star.