Guild Wars 2

I think Glyph is the better choice for Zerker D/D Ele over Signet, so yeah, if you’re set on running Zerker D/D in a PvP format, this is probably the way to play it.

Given that, I’m still pretty sure that Celestial is far stronger for Ele in a PvP format, even if it hits much softer.

Also, for teamplay with a group, Cleansing Water + Cleansing Wave is just such insanely good team support, that 30 water ends up being better not just for yourself, but because you’re cleansing conditions for an entire team. Thus, going 20 into air is more of a solo-play choice. Celestial gear also gives a lot of Healing Power which makes your Water stuff heal 1:1 more, which ends up being a ton of team support if in a group. Thus, it’s no wonder that Celestial has become the standard for many Eles in PvP.

You don’t see very Zerker D/D Eles in PvP formats anymore. They all moved to Scepter a while back because of the insane burst you can get with that weapon. However, D/D Eles in full Zerker gear still hurt like a truck, and also do insane sustained damage, so if you manage to get even half your burst off, you’ll probably kill a lot of players.

I’ll bet you that Condi Ranger will have an easier time than Berserker Ranger, just saying.

Longbow always did kind of suck for the Ranger, to be honest, and everyone knew it. Giving it actual spike damage would help fulfill the dreams of many Rangers who wanted to play long ranged sniper burst direct damage characters, which the class is strangely poor at right now.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

What’s wrong with lightning touch? :o

I think it is sufficient to say that when playing dagger main hand it is best to use another air auto attack than to cast this skill…

Strangely this skill has a high priority for me (in PvP), the weakness is just so strong!

Weakness is roughly 25% less direct damage. It’s very strong in all formats. Not enough Dagger Eles add Lightning Touch to their rotation.

Wyrden.4713:

Neko.9021:

Wyrden.4713:

i cant burn enemys no longer in my focus firewall w tornado anymore due to that field!

Lay the fire field first, then use Tornado (which uhhh… you’d have to do anyway). The first field down takes precedence.

doesnt always work, but we gonna see

u know when u put icefield, then a fire field on the ice field, sometimes u get might over frost aura

not sure if bug

For sure a bug. The first field down should always take priority.

Wyrden.4713:

i cant burn enemys no longer in my focus firewall w tornado anymore due to that field!

Lay the fire field first, then use Tornado (which uhhh… you’d have to do anyway). The first field down takes precedence.

Cleansing Ire is fine with most of the burst skills. It’s honestly just its synergy with Combustive Shot, and the fact that you don’t need to hit anything to proc it, that makes it too strong. Literally every other Burst Skill actually requires that you hit the enemy to trigger Cleansing Ire.

If you just changed it so that you needed to strike people with the initial impact of Combustive Shot in order to proc Cleansing Ire, it would solve so many of the current balance problems that we have in sPvP with Warrior.

desertleaf.5403:

Rangers are going to get their butts kicked when the changes go live. They are going to remove/replace the 1 trait that makes them 1 of the top power classes.

Say good bye to 25% and 150%. I hardly believe 7% more damage on base attack added with attack speed will measure up to 150% longshot from max distance and 150% more damage with critical maul strike. Good bye pro rangers. welcome weak sauce rangers. Its going to be hard to battle with the other professions without signets affecting the player.

Aside from damage nerf, removing the trait also nerfs defensive signets.

Other professions ckittene invulnerability and immunity. without ranger trait signet of beastmaster, we rangers are stuck on soaking all damages and left with a single shout that gets your pet killed and stops it from attacking.

Removing/replacing that single trait made a new ranger, a weaker one. Less damage and more pew pew. Id rather hit hard than hit many times to add up to 1 hard hit.

Signets are going to affect the Ranger by default.

desertleaf.5403:

Why is everyone saying damage increases on ranger? Signet of beastmaster trait is damage. Wild sig giving 25% more damage to player and pet… Now anet replaces it with a trait giving more damage vs slowed foes? Thats a huge kitten nerf, stability and done.

You think faster attack speed to long bow with trait and little adjustments to longbow and gs will make up for it? Hell, 25%more damage is greater than 7%

Its clear no one plays ranger, and those who have complained never played correctly.
This a nerf for the pros, a boost to the weak, making ranger worse than a support class.

Ranger is by far the most skilled required profession in this game, and we are removing the 1 trait that makes all the signets useful? When this patch gets active, rangers are walking corpses.

No invulnerability, no 25% more damage, no 150% single damage from hunter signet…. All kittened up. Go figure.

Signets will now affect the Ranger by default.

Flame Blast (6 second CD) becoming a blast finisher is insane… I’m sure it’ll find its way into PvE builds just because of that.

The Entangle change really surprised me. It synergies with Wilderness Knowledge and Survival of the Fittest, giving much better access to Condi Removal and soft CC. I really look forward to these changes.

J Eberle.9312:

Neko.9021:

Dreadfox.8031:

Neko.9021:

You know, since you seem so gung-ho on this, might I direct you to a forum where people PvE theorycraft extensively: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/viewforum/4280860/m/6563292

Thanks I am familiar with this site and Brazil’s ranger builds. But I’ve never seen numbers for condi Rangers earnestly run by him or other players.

I’m almost certain if you posted your findings there you will get someone who’s willing to talk math with you.

It would end in tears.

Heh heh. Really though, it’s the only place this can be properly settled.

Dreadfox.8031:

Neko.9021:

You know, since you seem so gung-ho on this, might I direct you to a forum where people PvE theorycraft extensively: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/viewforum/4280860/m/6563292

Thanks I am familiar with this site and Brazil’s ranger builds. But I’ve never seen numbers for condi Rangers earnestly run by him or other players.

I’m almost certain if you posted your findings there you will get someone who’s willing to talk math with you.

You know, since you seem so gung-ho on this, might I direct you to a forum where people PvE theorycraft extensively: http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/viewforum/4280860/m/6563292

This is the most amazing thing ever for talking about dungeon theorycrafting. Great job.

Oh My God.8423:

Neko.9021:

Oh My God.8423:

Are you sure it is a weighed queue?

My understanding is indeed first in first out with no jumping-queue.

Certain conditions (Burning and Poison) use this weird weighted-queue system. The stronger condition takes priority and ticks first before the weaker ones.

However, Bleed, which is the primary source of damage for a Condition Build, uses the normal first-in-first-out rule. This reason alone drastically hurts the usefulness of Condition Builds in group content.

So I presume those conditions that stack in duration use the weighed queue method; whereas those in intensity, first-come-first-serve.

Yes. This applies to Regeneration as well.

Oh My God.8423:

Are you sure it is a weighed queue?

My understanding is indeed first in first out with no jumping-queue.

Certain conditions (Burning and Poison) use this weird weighted-queue system. The stronger condition takes priority and ticks first before the weaker ones.

However, Bleed, which is the primary source of damage for a Condition Build, uses the normal first-in-first-out rule. This reason alone drastically hurts the usefulness of Condition Builds in group content.

If you’re really this concerned for optimization (especially in the context of “speed runs”), you really should just use a direct damage spec. It will do more damage.

Oh wow, it just occurred to me. I was wondering where you were getting Bleed Stacks from, since your only source of Bleeding was SB Auto while flanking, and Rune Procs. Then I saw that you’re relying on your pets to deal the bleed damage, even though their bleeding doesn’t scale off of your Condi Damage. You know that that’s pretty counter-intuitive – you’re now actually competing with your own pet on the bleed stack cap. You should be using Cats/Dogs/Drakes.

Also, you can’t use Sigil of Bloodlust with Sigil of Corruption.

I have no clue where you’re getting this math that Carrion Ranger does 1% more damage than Rabid Ranger. Not that I really know either way, it’s just that you’re using such a specific number.

I’ll openly admit though that I, for myself, really have no math behind what I say. I’m just going off of my own personal experience with this game.

Anyway, it hardly matters, since in group content (which is what you want to use this for), other people will interfere in your condi stacks, making your damage bad.

In a group setting, Condition Damage simply falls short because players players overlap with your damage. That’s just how condition damage is, and why you’re better off playing with a direct damage spec if you want to play better in group PvE content like dungeons.

With that said, I’m pretty certain this isn’t even optimized condition damage for a Ranger. :X If you really want to this route (maybe for solo play and such), then my guess would be to use Rabid gear and Sharpened Edges with a build like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRBMhd+1IlKNr2qiNLUtGwQo62CBL7A4AGAf/QGPVisJ-ThRGABA8EAUS5XCnEgEV/ht9H9DVpEkUAwMNC-e

I’m not sure how good that build is, but for a condi build, I think it’ll do more damage than what you have posted.

You start battles using Mighty Roar from the Juvenile Stalker for the Might. You lay down your fire field from Torch, and make sure to blast finish in it with Warhorn for Might stacks, and you use Heal as One off cooldown for more Might. You swap weapons off CD to proc Battle Sig. Use your fastest attacks off CD to proc more Bleeds from Sharpened Edges. Hunter’s Call + Rabid Gear + Sharpened Edges is hilarious amounts of bleed. Use Sharpening Stones for more Bleeds.

Overall, not at all for team play because it’s a Condi Spec, but maybe if someone wanted to solo harder content and wanted the benefit of higher Toughness… I could see it working out.

If you PUG that much, maybe you should just join a guild? For myself, I don’t play dungeons frequently enough to be in that sort of guild, anymore, but if you PUG a lot, you should probably just have a guild to play with.

From my experience in the game, enemies seem to focus on creatures that do these two things:
-Do lots of damage
-Have low HP

Zerker LH Ele does obscene damage and has about 10k HP base, so for the most part, things will focus you down in dungeons.

The thing that I would suggest would be playing Dagger/Focus. It’s not as high damage (but still very high), but has access to twice as much dodging, and better defensive skills.

Here’s the guides on Ele and Dagger/Focus:
-http://dulfy.net/2014/07/11/gw2-elementalist-pve-class-guide-by-haviz-and-zelyhn/
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sr5tJKLfZk&list=PLwQtsq8Rv5LXQs8gHpDLu-zzl8IdTEWLG&index=3

For PvE, seems much worse than the standard Fresh Air or Persisting Flames builds.

For WvW, seems much worse than the Arcana-Water builds or Fresh Air builds.

The other Warrior elites also grant Swiftness.

The Warrior isn’t meant to be a slow class. It’s actually meant to be a pretty fast one, so it can close the gap and catch its enemies in melee range.

Chrispy.5641:

Neko.9021:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Neko.9021:

Uh, Sun Spirit giving Burning is like one of the hugest buffs that a Ranger can give in sPvP. It’s similar to how Frost Spirit increasing damage is so strong in PvE.

If you removed the passive chance to burn from Sun Spirit, it would nerf Spirits heavily. Say goodbye to the last viable build Rangers have in sPvP.

You did notice my suggestion of the AoE actives being ground targetted, right? So the build could easily become a double-whammy, and could make the spirit build stronger since instead of just defensive, it could easily switch to the offensive with the actives.

It’s REALLY hard to beat passive team burning. When everyone gets that Sun Spirit buff and focuses target on one person, it really hurts. A lot.

The sheer amount of damage that Sun Spirit brings to sPvP really can’t be understated. Recall that it’s already been nerfed from 3 seconds of burning to 2 seconds, and yet it’s still the meta build for Rangers in sPvP to take Sun Spirit, just for all the burning. I know for PvE and WvW, it’s pretty lackluster, but for PvP, it’s really, really strong. Far stronger than some Endurance Regeneration buff. There is a reason that Spirit Ranger, as is, is still the meta for PvP Ranger. And that reason is Spirit of Nature’s utility + the damage brought by Sun Spirit.

its the passive part of that burning that makes it way too powerful. Didn’t Anet nerf something similar in Necromancers(dhuumfire)? Whether spirits change or not, it might be only a matter of time before sun spirit gets nerfed to the ground as well.

I don’t think it’s really ‘too powerful’. I think it’s simply build-defining, and allows the Ranger to have a real valid team-fighting and support build where they wouldn’t otherwise.

To ruin the only thing that’s been proven to be strong on the Ranger in this current PvP meta seems pretty dumb.

Arcane Brilliance

RyuDragnier.9476:

Neko.9021:

Uh, Sun Spirit giving Burning is like one of the hugest buffs that a Ranger can give in sPvP. It’s similar to how Frost Spirit increasing damage is so strong in PvE.

If you removed the passive chance to burn from Sun Spirit, it would nerf Spirits heavily. Say goodbye to the last viable build Rangers have in sPvP.

You did notice my suggestion of the AoE actives being ground targetted, right? So the build could easily become a double-whammy, and could make the spirit build stronger since instead of just defensive, it could easily switch to the offensive with the actives.

It’s REALLY hard to beat passive team burning. When everyone gets that Sun Spirit buff and focuses target on one person, it really hurts. A lot.

The sheer amount of damage that Sun Spirit brings to sPvP really can’t be understated. Recall that it’s already been nerfed from 3 seconds of burning to 2 seconds, and yet it’s still the meta build for Rangers in sPvP to take Sun Spirit, just for all the burning. I know for PvE and WvW, it’s pretty lackluster, but for PvP, it’s really, really strong. Far stronger than some Endurance Regeneration buff. There is a reason that Spirit Ranger, as is, is still the meta for PvP Ranger. And that reason is Spirit of Nature’s utility + the damage brought by Sun Spirit.

Uh, Sun Spirit giving Burning is like one of the hugest buffs that a Ranger can give in sPvP. It’s similar to how Frost Spirit increasing damage is so strong in PvE.

If you removed the passive chance to burn from Sun Spirit, it would nerf Spirits heavily. Say goodbye to the last viable build Rangers have in sPvP.

Please make your guide, Caed. I watch your stream and I think the community would greatly benefit from your knowledge.

The class you’re looking for is Double Dagger Ele.

I want to play Zealot’s Ele in sPvP.

Only a few more hours left. If you haven’t yet, go vote. It’d be really awesome to see these players represent the coolest class at Gamescom!

I’ve tested this in the mists. For whatever reason, the regeneration granted by Runes of Dwayna does not proc Cleansing Water – the Grandmaster Trait that removes conditions for the Elementalist.

Please fix this.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i dunno since i only play warrior mostly nowadays.
what is warrior’s profession mechanic by the way?
adrenaline?

Why are you even posting in this thread if you don’t know what a class mechanic is?

If you haven’t already, you should vote for players to go to the Guild Wars 2 International at Gamescom!

If you love Eles and want to see the best Eles of them all at the tourney, vote for:

-Denshee (EU) – Member of TCG/Team Mist, who won the last EU Tournament of Legends, considered by many players to be the “best”. He multi-classes and multi-specs but plays Ele the most (his D/D Bunker play at the EU ToL helped bring the class back into the current meta), and of the players here, I’d consider him to be the best player in general. http://www.twitch.tv/superchey

-Phantaram (US, due to location, even if he normally plays EU) – Former member of Team Paradigm, won the PAX Qualifiers. His team would have gone to the PAX Tourney Championship had it not been for a sad technicality (he plays with EU, but is in the US). He’s played for a long time and his technical skill at Ele is truly astounding. http://www.twitch.tv/phantaram

-Zoose (US) – Great player all around, his team recently beat Apex Prime in a mini-tourney, and he’s helped make guides for defining builds such as D/D Bunker Ele and S/D Fresh Air Ele and S/F Fresh AIr Ele . http://www.twitch.tv/thundercatshoooo

There are actually quite a few other Ele mains on the list for both EU and US (and you have 7 more votes if you vote for these three, so you can certainly vote for them if you want), but these three have particularly shown themselves to be truly amazing players.

Another person you should consider voting for:
-Chubbz (US) – Member of Apex Prime, he’s long championed the Staff Ele, and his amazing ability to play Heal Blob Staff Ele helped his team completely out-sustain and dominate and win the NA Tournament of Legends. He likes playing builds that are a little weird by ‘meta’ standards (such as playing Res Glyph), but his daring to play strange things was what helped Apex take down the NA ToL. – http://www.twitch.tv/chubbsz

Ettanin.8271:

Would it still be legendary if everyone has it?

Yes

I feel Elemental Attuning is the best mechainc.

I’m sorry for your troubles, but realize that you inconvenienced 27 other people.

The ban might be a tad too long but remember, back when there was no penalty for leaving, 4v5s were incredibly common.

I dunno. But I feel like… something’s coming. Something big.

I’ll try and get this stickied.

lordhidetora.3189:

TKiller.6829:

I’m under an impression that you consider warrior a class with the highest dps value.

I thought this was the meta everyone compared DPS to.

No. If we’re referring to “speedruns” and what is “the most optimal” or what is “meta”, Warriors are basically there to provide banner buffs (which are very strong). Their DPS is nothing special.

lordhidetora.3189:

maxinion.8396:

lordhidetora.3189:

TKiller.6829:

I’m under an impression that you consider warrior a class with the highest dps value.

I thought this was the meta everyone compared DPS to.

Warriors have moderate dps. Thieves and Elementalists,and even Guardians in some situations, out dps them.

So if a ranger has even less dps than warrior… It’s really not very good.

After reading a bit on this topic, I will say fair enough.

But I still stand by my point that I would personally rather have a player that plays properly putting up sub-par DPS than one that doesn’t play properly.

This is dangerously close to the Flase Dilemma Falacy – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma . I’m pretty sure no one wants to play with someone who plays improperly. I’m pretty sure no one in the thread argued “I prefer to play with people who play improperly.” What was being argued was:

In the context of running a dungeon efficiently, and based on the development of the dungeon meta from 2013 to 2014 (more Eles instead of more Warriors), is the Ranger (a class that brings lower DPS than most other classes, and whose unique buffs consist of Spotter – which was indirectly nerfed thanks to the Ferocity change – and Frost Spirit) worth bringing over another Profession?

To answer to that question “I’d rather take a good player over a bad one” totally misses the question, entirely.

lordhidetora.3189:

Saint.5647:

lordhidetora.3189:

I love seeing it for CoF…because you know, god forbid it takes me 5 more minutes to do a dungeon. My game time is very valuable, and maybe those 5 minutes that I don’t spend in the dungeon, I will spend farming somewhere else in orr.

give me a break.

Reference to AC or CoF [ X ]
Bitter PHIW attitude [ X ]

Dwayna forbid indeed. Five more minutes in CoF is pretty much another CoF.

That’s right, I better play this game like it’s my fulltime job. Edited after reading next post, ty for clarification. I play how I want, and I am effective. I res people, I put out decent damage (not close to the almighty warrior, but enough to help and make a difference), I don’t go around pressing 4 on LB when I see the rest of my party trying to burst something down, I make sure I don’t pull random mobs, and I don’t die on command. This is of course, once in a blue moon when I do dungeons on my ranger, because I’m scared of running into people like OP, even in causal PUGs for dungeons.

I’ve learned to just run them with my ele or guard, and people won’t say anything.

RSLongK.8961:

lordhidetora.3189:

I can’t believe this is an issue, lol.

Why would anyone pick a ranger if they don’t want to use a bow?

[snip]

I melee with my ranger.
I like it more than all my other 8 melee characters. Once you master the 1handed sword you attack and dodge at same time, its beautiful.
Fashion Meta > Meta > PHIW.

I love 1 handed sword on ranger. Honestly I love all weapons on ranger and I use them where I see fit. But, I guess I just like the “pew.”

This obviously doesn’t mean I sit there hitting 5 on longbow and then going back to auto attack when people are stacking in a dungeon.

I would rather have a ranger that knows what he is doing in a dungeon, than have a warrior that facetanks everything he sees with zerker gear and asks to be ressed every fight, or a guardian that spams virtues without having no clue what he is doing.

Why on earth would you put yourself out there trying to troll everyone, only to later fold up and become all defensive, trying to justify your playstyle to the internet? :P

Rangers are the profession, lore-wise, of being dedicated to nature. I believe the idea is that guns are a bit too new and artificial for the nature-magic class.

lordhidetora.3189:

maxinion.8396:

lordhidetora.3189:

I can’t believe this is an issue, lol.

Why would anyone pick a ranger if they don’t want to use a bow?

And yes, I can play with longbow on warrior, but why would I play bow on warrior when I can play an axe or a greatsword?

Just dodge roll/play smart/micro manage your pets, and avoid all groups that state “zerk only” and “lvl 80 zerk, ping gear,” and…oh…" ‘so and so’ AP needed + ping gear."

I avoid every single group like that..and sometimes, I just join one and start pinging clerics gear.

I love seeing it for CoF…because you know, god forbid it takes me 5 more minutes to do a dungeon. My game time is very valuable, and maybe those 5 minutes that I don’t spend in the dungeon, I will spend farming somewhere else in orr.

give me a break.

the pew pew is strong with this one

but hey, if you’re avoiding the zerk groups, play on and do what you want!

The pew pew is overwhelming. If I might add, it’s almost to the point where GW2 has just made it’s own sound file for when I use my ranger.

I could also easily take one of my alts…it’s about playing the game and having fun…not running around with a bunch of elitists people that question how you play the game every 5 minutes.

The problem with Elitists is they’re not playing the game the way it was meant to be played, as dictated by me. That’s why I join their LFG-advertised-Zerker only groups and troll them, in the name of defending the right to play how I want.

Come on guys! It’s about having fun and playing the way you want! Unless that way happens to be playing Zerker and seeking out other Zerker-geared players. Then that’s just rude and Elitist.

Celestial Strength Rune has become the strongest class in the game. It chooses to take on various forms such as X+Bow Warriors and D/D Eles.

Pacer.6143:

Yesterday I tried s/d in a couple of dungeons. I was downed so many times that it was embarrassing, maybe it was a bad group but I cannot play without d/f any more, reflects, evade, many CCs, obsidian flesh, another free skill slot etc. Despite lower dps It still rocks imho and it’s easy to play you can quickly react to any situations.

Dps is not that terrible, last time in CoE at golem P2 and P3 I had agro all the time and started last at attacking without LH, other ele was s/d with LH meta he said, was gearchecked. Please note that I’m always puging

In my honest opinion, I really feel that D/F is the better choice for general PvE Instanced Play. If you’re playing with an organized group or trying to push a record, that’s a different story, but in casual PUGing, D/F Fresh Air still offers good utility (a bit of might stacking and a bit of vuln, the Conjures, and the Glyphs) and respectable damage.

Eles have been wanting this for a while.

The answer is no, it does not. It only works with the Elemental-5-point traits.

Healing Ele is pretty darn OP. Just watch the last match of the NA ToL with KPz vs Apex Prime, and you’ll see just how strong the passive support Cleric’s Ele can give: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/525879111

I think what’s important to realize is that the flow of damage in GW2 is different from other MMOs. It’s not a trinity game. You’re not going to get very far just camping Water Attunement and spamming its spells of CD. If you’re looking to play an Action-MMO with a Trinity-Healer, you should play Tera or Wildstar (both good games, btw). The Healer Elementalist is more about giving small burst heals when people need them, providing a TON of Healing over time (Regen + Soothing Wave is no joke), and giving support through all their boons and combo fields (such as Protection from Earth Attunement or providing important powerful Water and Fire Fields for team play). In WvW, we see coordinated zergs timing Water Fields at the right time, so that their allies can blast finish in them for sustained healing. And the Elementalist’s weapon sets provide a great mixture of Soft and Hard CC that really mess up players or allow you to control mobs.

With that said, I feel that full on Cleric’s Elementalist is best suited to sPvP and WvW, where your heals probably scale better to the kind of damage you receive. PvE is straightforward enough that you can just deck out your character in full damage gear and kill everything really fast, and because everyone has their own heals and ways to mitigate damage, there’s no need for a dedicated Healer. It’s still pretty strong in my opinion, it’s just not needed, and it’s not the kind of support that people want in the way people complete PvE content (which is do it as fast as possible). PvP Healer Ele is still, in my opinion, very viable and useful.