Guild Wars 2

KiNgPiN.2075:

Wyrmrider.1692:

I think it is reasonable to expect that just as PvE players can get “max gear” through PvE, WvW players should be able to get “max gear” through WvW.

But all I’ve found is a vague statement that there will eventually be multiple paths to get Ascended gear. That could mean anything. For example, World of Warcraft has multiple paths to get gear… and it also has a fairly rigid system of first- and second-class citizens. There are better/faster paths (raiding & arenas reward tier N) and worse/slower paths (heroics & battlegrounds reward tier N-1).

I love Guild Wars 2, but my long-term interest in the game is strictly for the WvW.

So, my question:
When and how will Ascended gear be available through WvW play?

Also PVE oriented people have to spend long time in WvW even if they dont care about WvW just to get 500 badges for their legendary. last time a mentioned this issue, some “wise” people told me (dont have your legendary – problem solved), and u know what i did? I grind those 500 badges. And the same go to PVP oriented playes. Sometimes life doesnt go your way but if u wanna have best in slot items u have to do things that you consider boring just to get gear u want.

they got jumping puzle in wvw, where they can skip fight if they want to pure pve in WvWvW,
What option WvW players got atm ? no crafting not tradeble / black lion company

i belive those traits refer to direct damage not Damage over time

you moved good arround the battlefield
with that defence you could be 1/2 shot from other thief or warrior
Good Job

you are wrong OP
while i get 3 ppls in 1 borderland , i cannot enter Lion arch cause overflow
there are entire clans that never went WvW and don’t wanna go
on Eu almost all servers got “high” population, on Us same. Problem is rewarding, I am fine to make 2-3 gold /day in wvw some say they can make that in 30 minutes in Pve

Ok , as far as i understood from Elementarists, imobilize or dazzle could be the Key
What about – Reaper of grenth ? – chill +poison for 15 seconds

you night cap too much Deso !!!
at 5:30 Am GTM+2 you got an team of 30 ppls on borderlands + Eternal borderland team
Kinda sucks cause we get borred untill 7 P M. Come fight durring the day time please guys

Not many of them yet , but is an endless PvP if i go 1 vs 1 elementarist ( tanky ones)
I use D/D and shortbow and i cannot burst them down , they heal full all the time
i try to poison them or bleed , but they remove conditions fast
backstabs go max 4000, sometimes 5000 and is hard to catch them off guard.
It is P/P better vs elementarists cause you can continue hit them , or S/D for imobilize ?

there is not an most efective build
vs other thieves i prefer tanky build ( 30 sa trait /20 acrobatics) or condition build
vs mesmers /elementarists – burst is the only build that might have an chance, if you go tanky build , it will take forever
vs warriors tanky or condition build
vs guardians -tank build
vs engeniers burst build /condition build
vs necro’s condition removal build – with as much vitality as posible
vs rangers any build will work ^^

salluks.6017:

Rayya.2591:

Tzun.6073:

Where do you pull so many people from @ SFR? It is insane! haha

Been much fun!

Desolation player

we got lvl 1 fractals

There is only 1 server which transfers all the guilds to top servers and still stays quite strong …far shiverpeaks.. Few guilds mentioned above just moved to sfr..sadly fsp has become a pve server, so all the hardcore wvw guilds are leaving from there. ofcourse am not taking away anything from sfr and applaud them for reaching so far.

I also moved to sfr from fsp just 2 days back, and already regret it:(
Am not saying that a majority of the sfr is bad, but theres hostility there for people assumed to jump on the winning server. This also reflects on this very thread.

I just played for 2 days and have already decided to move back to fsp or a more wvw focussed server(desolation maybe)
Again, this maybe becos of only few people who are the vocal minority.

It is true Sfr had lot of newcommers in the past 2 weeks. From an middle pop server, finaly reached high population server. The fact that some guilds joined SFR is an advantage , maybe an major one, but there are also disadvantages.
I am thankfull that we fight vs desolation atm , since they can put up presure with
“ninja attacks " and we can learn to play better in defensive. As well with no offence for other servers , i had meet the best 1 vs 1 opponents on desolation server, specialy IRON but not only.

no setima , eng is not my first lang , actualy is my 3’rd , and i do not check the grammar most of the time , while responding on forums.
Please consider that in Heart of mysts you cannot get maximum damage items, you can get 30 points of crit power from traits and 20 from amulet + 12 from runes. that’s 62
In wvw is an diferent story : with exotics you get:
30 from traits
10 from weapons
12 from runes
4 backpack , 8 amulet , 6x 2 accesory 6 x2 rings
5 coat 2x helm ,gloves , boots, shoulders,, 3 leggins
that’s 104 + 10 from food 114 .
I had tested it myself today, to see if i overreacted with numbers i got only 2980 power if i invest in DA and 82 critical power, and i did MUG up to 7300 on some light armor users. I assume that if i had 114 critical would be diferent ( and more power )

Setima.8741:

First, Mug never hits for 7500 damage even on the squishiest classes in the best possible gear. Post a screenshot or quit spewing bullshiet. You can take a talent to immobilize somebody for 4 seconds when they’re low on health, but that isn’t a burst build since it’s at the end of a trait line that focuses on Poisons (Deadly Arts). Sure I guess you could weaken yourself and put 30 points into Deadly Arts and another 30 into Critical Strikes and lose the extra initiative gain from Trickery along with the reduced steal cooldown, though that’s not the common build I usually see. Not to mention the cooldown for that immobilize is on a 1 minute cooldown and we already have a poison that will immobilize you (Devourer Poison) and it’s only on a 45 second cooldown (36s traited), thus making that immobilize somewhat useless compared to other traits.

100% critical strike for four hits in a row? Since when is any attack outside of Hidden Killer giving you a 100% critical strike chance? OH yeah, none! 350 hp/sec while in stealth would only happen if you’re chewing on some major +healing food or stacking some +healing gear (thus lowering your DPS). As a DPS burst spec, they won’t have either of those things, which means the maximum heal per sec is closer to 290~300 hp/sec. Yes you can remove cripple and weakness when you dodge. However, that is a weak azz trait on a 10 second cooldown in the Acrobatics tree that no burst Thief will have either.

Yes you can gain Might on Dodge and Might when you go into stealth, but again, to get Might on Dodge you have to spec into Acrobatics and to gain Might when you enter stealth, you have to spec 25 points into Shadow Arts. Again, Burst Thieves won’t have points in either of these trees. Now if they ever decided to give me a 30/30/30/30/30 spec, then I could understand some of your complaints. As it stands, you list off skills and abilities that somebody able to kick your nuts in in 5 seconds or less would NOT have. Once again it’s somebody crying that they lost to a Thief with no desire to learn how to counter them, spewing bullshiet because they have no idea what a Thief can and cannot do. Next!

did you even read that i made comparation betwen traits ?

100% critical can be for 100 hits in row , just turn off autoatack and do c&d every 3 seconds.
you can have 10 points in acrobatics and 25 on SA
P.s. i heal 390 from runes of divinity and triforge pendant only
I am not gonna post you any screenshot , you can make tests by yourself , i invested over 250 gold in my thief, and i do not want an uncalled nerf on SA traits just because glass cannon thief trow garbage in that trait.

SSVAV.5862:

Rayya.2591:

bladie.5084:

Deadly traits is alright.
Critical traits are okay
Acrobatics are pretty nice
Trickery is pretty nice as well
Shadow arts traits is just crazy imba glyphs imho. You get rewarded while in stealth? regen while stealth, gain more initiative while stealth gain, 15 seconds of might when stealth? That’s just crazy and nonsense imo. That’s why decent players can’t kill some of us, once we stealth, we can remove conditions, re heal everything, regain all our initiatives and are ready to go for round 2+3+4 and so on.

So is ok that you can deal 7500 damage with MUG,is normal to imobilize oponent for 4 seconds when he is low hp , is ok that you can have 100% critical chance for 4 hits in row, but is crazy OP to regen 350 hp/sec on stealth.
Is ok that you can remove criple at every dodge roll, but is crazy OP that you can remove conditions when you are not able to attack
Is normal that you can have might at dodge roll, but is too overpowered to have might when you enter stealth.
Idk what kind of thief you play, but i can feel the hate for other thives, or you try trow the ball in other yard, to protect allmighty MUG. Won’t work.

7500 mug? Proof.
4 100% sritical hit chance hits? Proof.
Remove conditions? Sure, by burning all our CDs.
Heal in stealth? Sure, by investing 30 points in the stealth traits, thus doing less damage.
Remove cripple and add might on dodge? Sure, once again by investing in non-offensive trait lines.

Play a thief before suggesting any modifications on them. Your post is pure hate.

i made an comparation to him , explaining him that sa trait is not Overpowered compared to other traits
If you want proof and got own thief try it by yourself : thief full bersek gear 114 critical power, over 3500 attack with 25 stacks of Bloodlust trained on glass cannon , your MUG will hit from 5500 – heawy armor to 8500 + on glass cannons
for 100% critical power for 4 hits in row i will explain you , if you don’t know or you are just sarcastic .
first option :Steal + backstab – first crit (100% ) , dodge roll- c&D wich is in 75% casses crit , C&D will stealth you, backstab, second crit (100%) dodge roll bliding powder backstab (3 rd ? ) hide in shadows -4 rd crit 100% .
second option : steal + backstab (1’st) C&d , wait 3 seconds (C&d) …. etc 100 crits 100% in row.

Tzun.6073:

Where do you pull so many people from @ SFR? It is insane! haha

Been much fun!

Desolation player

we got lvl 1 fractals

My suggestion list:
- add an timmer to downed state : i made fun of many enemy’s in wvwvw , just keep them downed for 5 minutes , hiting from time to time when they heal over 70%
- i agree with siege account bound
- we defenetly need better rewards as an main issue in WvWvW maps. I got few stacks of badges , waiting for the day when i can purchase ascended items in WvWvW rewards.
- payed transfers at 2000 + gems . It is ridiculous how many players join the winning side. That hurt the both sides, the server who get new players, that are not used with that server’s tactics and just fill the WvWvW maps with Jumping puzzle players.
- more WvW titles, at diferent ranking, i cannot chose 1 wvwvw title after 10.000 kills on WvWvW but i can take gladiator after few hours spent in sPvP
-Daily WvW achivements in exchange of WvWvW jumping puzzle. :
kill 20 players
assault 3 keeps
defend 5 towers
kill 5 dolyaks
you get 1-2 random blueprinter and 1 repair canister

anonymity.9465:

Rayya.2591:

i wonder , what effort you put intro wvw ? you go sleep at 7 Pm and wake at 4 am to cap something in that 3 hours you play?
you spend all your gold on siege machines? add 3 rams to rush towers or 2 golems?
Wait , what skills we talk about ? to use or not wall of reflection in 40 vs 40 ? or really what skill , battles are wonned by organization and informations not skills.
Regarding outmaned i hope you were joking
There are 3 sides on every map and 4 maps where you can play. If you are outmanned on all 4 maps then you should go down 1 tier not progress

First off you should really work on your grammer second of all you dont know me nor do i know you . fact i dont go to bed at 7pm sorry and i dont wake up at 4 am , i am on the GoM server where the population is low due to guilds leaving because we keep fighting the same servers for over a month now . i am guessing that you are on a big server probably one of the top ten and all you do is zerg and there is no skill involved . i read some of your posts and seems like you do is troll and argue . if you dont know what your talking about then you probably should not post . i am not here to argue i am here posting trying to figure out what anet plans on doing about the low server population cause thet do exist . we beat bp before and now all the sudden people stop playing wvw cause we keep fighting the same servers and leave the server , bp gets flooded with more guilds and people making it more populated then ours now . all and all there is a such thing as low populated servers and gom is one of them .

first of all , my grammar is fine for an 3’rd lang, i am not US or Uk to speak /write perfect english, might be frustrating for you, to read an non perfect english , but consider that i know 2 lang more then you.
second of all : we had all payed same money for this game, we all have same privileges. one side should not get an unfair advantage ( stats boost) just because nobody want to play with them, If the guilds left your server is an issue with your server , maybe the fact that you (as server ) prefer to run chaotic, not to follow commanders. So from all the players who play this game ,what makes you so special to demand stats buff ?
Regarding zerg and skill: Dude , dude skill was never involved in wvw, and is not intended to involve skill in WvW. you might confuse skill with tactics. But since the factor guilds left the server you play , i assume you got no tactics, so you run chaotic using punch power " that is called zerg". With all your english knowledge you confuse zerg with numbers. I will explain you:
Nowadays term zerg is used in mmo games to describe force consisted of large group of lower level players who use numbers rather then strategy to defeat the enemy.
You also say effort : but you don’t try to play offpeak to capture points when there is no " zerg " arround, as you mentioned. Did you even tryed to drag wvw clans on your server ? .How many gold did you spent on sieges ? Or what effort you mentioned ?
I am sorry dude, i do not troll you, but i got the right to an oppinion, and to express my point wich is 100% against yours

bladie.5084:

Deadly traits is alright.
Critical traits are okay
Acrobatics are pretty nice
Trickery is pretty nice as well
Shadow arts traits is just crazy imba glyphs imho. You get rewarded while in stealth? regen while stealth, gain more initiative while stealth gain, 15 seconds of might when stealth? That’s just crazy and nonsense imo. That’s why decent players can’t kill some of us, once we stealth, we can remove conditions, re heal everything, regain all our initiatives and are ready to go for round 2+3+4 and so on.

So is ok that you can deal 7500 damage with MUG,is normal to imobilize oponent for 4 seconds when he is low hp , is ok that you can have 100% critical chance for 4 hits in row, but is crazy OP to regen 350 hp/sec on stealth.
Is ok that you can remove criple at every dodge roll, but is crazy OP that you can remove conditions when you are not able to attack
Is normal that you can have might at dodge roll, but is too overpowered to have might when you enter stealth.
Idk what kind of thief you play, but i can feel the hate for other thives, or you try trow the ball in other yard, to protect allmighty MUG. Won’t work.

FireRunner.9481:

Thief stealth skills are EXTREMELY overpowered. It is ridiculous one class has this much power over all over classes. I have seen thief and thief go stealth 3 times in a row countless times. They need to do something such as:

1. Add longer timer to being able to re-stealth.
2. Remove stealth if player is damaged.
3. Not allow player to move if in stealth mode.

As of right now thieves are almost gods in PvP. It’s so ridiculous it’s stupid.

you ask the same like :
remove damage from ranger pets
remove skills from ranger pets
do not alow rangers to move as long as pets are summoned

not sure on what servers you play guys
but attacking an keep full fortified with siege up, an army of 30 attackers got no chance vs 10 defenders.
3 arrow carts will keep zerg away, 2 cata’s behind gate will destroy the rams /psuh golems back and 1 treb will destroy all the cata’s /balista’s
Damage from assault treb can be ignored when they got 2 full supply keep can resist more then 1 hour.
SO you need up to 3 trebs to take an full defended Keep

End.8794:

3. ‘Low skill’ factor, or heartseeker syndrome – I think it’s indisputable truth, that thief doesn’t require much skill to perform well in casual environment. Literally, in some cases I could unbind all skills but heartseeker, place monkey on a chair and watch as it kills opponents while mindlessly smashing the keyboard. The ‘it doesn’t work in competetive play’ argument is very shortsighted and its supporters are showing lack of imagination. A game, especially pvp one is like a food chain. There are weak, medium, good and top players. Adjactent groups need each other and to function properly, game needs to be balanced on every level.

I am sorry to not be agree with you.
I don’t consider myself an bad player , but most of pvp’s i win with auto attacks, i use some heartseeker against running enemy’s. i rarely use cloack and dagger , except vs heawy armor users, i rarely use DB and i don’t spam heartseeker. I don’t switch weapons in PvP , and i win arround 98% of 1 vs 1 " pvp’s " in WvWvW . So in your opinion that would make me an bad player, or unskilled because i mostly use autoatack. I would kindly ask you to point me where i can find TOP players so i can watch and learn from skilled players.

Chakuna.6325:

• Powerful spammable abilities like Heartseeker need to have a Cooldown (2-3 seconds)

• Skills like Unload and Head Shot need to buffed with an added cooldown also, reward players for timing these abilities properly, instead of just spamming them without any punishment.

• Traits for every class need to be looked at very closely, most of them are useless.
  In my opinion Trait lines should not give any stats (or very minimal stats). You’re just making class/build balance harder to achieve!

• Nerf Mug into the ground, having a trait that deals 6k damage is completely unbalanced. Give it a flat damage of ~5% of the opponents health. Or just get rid of it

• There needs to be a cap on +Critical Damage; around 50%? Also adjust Toughness/vitality/healing accordingly. This needs to sorted out immediately, imo!

• Body Shot – LOL, this ability rivals the crapynes of most the Ranger abilities… I heard a good suggestion about making our #2 Pistol ability a Blast Finisher. This would give P/P a way to Stealth without having to use Utilities. Again, abilities like this should have a small cooldown.

if you give an 3 seconds cooldown to HS, with the current 1 second cast time, then you need 4 seconds for 1 leap at 450 range, skill become useless. Not sure how you calculated this, or how often you played D/D thief, but maybe you can explain me how an thief will catch any class ( they already get outrunned by some elementarists)
You cannot ask for an crit damage cap at 50% when only 1 single ascended ring add 8% and you can get 30% on trait line.What adjustments you talk about ? an bunker elementarist can kill 2thieves same time, an bunker guardian can heal forever from glass cannon thief and just ignore his damage, is up to everybody what stats he focus on.
steal from range without using utility’s = 100% avoid damage

Calle.8746:

“Ye but you can still target them!!! QQQQQ”.

the “incoming fix” will be dificult. The only posible fix will be to remove stealth from cloack and dagger.
Reason: too large scale for server , to send information to 100 players exactly in the moment stealth ends : stealth can have diferent durations, some skills stealth you for 3 seconds . some stealth you for 2 some stealth you for 10 , you can stack stealth from utility’s unless you attack.
But i agree with you : QQ

in an thief’s oppinion:
look guardian – leave it, might be bunker
look ele – stay away- he kill you
look eng – he might imobilize you and bomb you to death
look an warrior -run
i see an mesmer – he can kill me
there is an necro – they counter me
finaly an ranger – free kill

PraetorMortis.8610:

Thanks Arenanet for allowing playes to build arrowcarts and balistas in there. Cuz you know, all my attacks also have a 2000 range. Bunch of idiots. It’s like not one single dev ever thought that a player could do something abusive in the game.

Is JP the new achivement for daily ?
No is not ,is like an tower, you conquer the area , and you defend it after

i wonder , what effort you put intro wvw ? you go sleep at 7 Pm and wake at 4 am to cap something in that 3 hours you play?
you spend all your gold on siege machines? add 3 rams to rush towers or 2 golems?
Wait , what skills we talk about ? to use or not wall of reflection in 40 vs 40 ? or really what skill , battles are wonned by organization and informations not skills.
Regarding outmaned i hope you were joking
There are 3 sides on every map and 4 maps where you can play. If you are outmanned on all 4 maps then you should go down 1 tier not progress

best strategy’s in WvW :
-hide near enemy’s spawn point, and wait for the first low lvl
kill him and /dance
-add knockdown traps on Jumping puzzle
- run in jumping puzzle with caltrops /dodge
-run near enemy’s keeps /towers and hit dors to mark them
-watch when the 2 other sides fight / do dagger storm betwen the zergs and go away
-leave yak’s

Evilek.5690:

katniss.6735:

I don’t think I need to do a write up. The screenshot pretty much sums up the thief class and how OP they are:

Full glass cannon thief 2199 P 14,6kHP
Backstab DMG =(weapon damage 981)power 2199(skill coe. 2,405 on back attack)/enemy armor=518811,695/enemy armor
Enemy armor 1500=3458,74 DMG
Enemy armor 2000=2594,05 DMG
Enemy armor 2200=2358,05 DMG
Enemy armor 2500=2075,22 DMG
Enemy armor 2755=1883,22 DMG
Critikal damage bonus with all CD and traits is 270%

DMG for 9500crit=+-3492DMG non crit = your armor is max 1850—>glass cannon =)

almost correct , but you didn’t took in consideration the posibility of 25 stacks of bloodlust and the vulnerability from C &D , and first strikes /expose weakness traits
2200 -2300 is very low armor in wvw , i got 2900 on my thief
anyway no point to have this discution over and over again… all he had to do was 1 dodge roll to avoid entire combo. Is already imposible to kill bunker guardians and specialy bunker elementarists / necro. Warriors kill thieves in 3 seconds , but still thieves are OP.

katniss.6735:

I don’t think I need to do a write up. The screenshot pretty much sums up the thief class and how OP they are:

don’t get me wrong but your armor is extremly low for WvW

Ok scenario 3 in your opinion OP
server A got 160 players , server b got 160 players
server a – add 70 ppls on eternal and 30 each border
server b go with 160 players on home border – cap all map and leave 5 players to defend … and same on and remain with 145 player at EB
Or scenario 4 : server c got 600 players on WvW and server D got 120 players on WvW… you want fair chances for server D ? you espect same points ?

Senjun.8149:

In WvWvW which is all i play, it’s basically all i played from level 30-80 and all I played afterwards, pvp is basically all I do on any game and I know what I’m talking about when it comes to class balance.
First The Proof.
let’s take a look at this screenshot, from this morning
http://s903.beta.photobucket.com/user/Bergenor/media/gw2thieves.jpg.html
Let me tell you guys before you start assuming things that I am decked out in pvp gear and I i spend some points in Earth attunement just to get some extra toughness. The fact a thief can spam one ability and continuously hit 5-6k is very unjustified. I as an elementalist can hit 2k on a single target on a 1.5 second cast time, with a long cooldown. That is my best burst ability. The fact a thief can spam 5-6k in a skill-less, obnoxious manner is very unfair. This ability needs to be nerfed its damage would still be highly acceptable even if it was cut in half.
Second, the probability thieves are overpowered.
This isn’t my only encounter with a thief who seems use to getting 1 button kills. It happens to me every day, and I figured “this is such an obvious case of an overpowered class that gw2 staff will fix it quickly” I guess just like other games the most obvious needed nerfs take the longest to apply, the fact this happens 100% of the time to me vs any thief means this is a highly overpowered class (and overplayed, all i ever see is thieves and mesmers, coincidence?)

Third, the survivability

Thieves with such high damage should have low survivability but infact they have some of the highest and although thieves may disagree with me here if you played in the shoes of other classes you should know where I’m coming from. In pvp a thief can basically escape and run away from any fight he wants to at any time he pleases. Just vanish and poof run away.
A thief can also use his consistent invisibilities to make himself last longer in a fight and dish out more damage while being able to take worlds less damage because the thief can dance circles around someone while flickering on and off in and out of stealth. This makes his survivability higher than most classes who can’t just poof and have to stay and try to hold their ground.
Four- How thief encounters are handled.
Usually when I see a thief I no longer try to fight them one on one because I know they are an overpowered class and I try to avoid 1v1 or alot of the times even 2v1 encounters. I know if i don’t have a tanky class with me to help a thief can easily take care of me and the other.
Just not to long ago a thief and me were fighting and i did what i usually do, try to run away, stunning, mist form, arcane shield, basically anything i can do, which is always unsuccessfully because thief has ranged cripples and other ways to stop me and catch up with me, like leaping faster than i run. I ran over to a necromancer and i figured yup were going to lose, even though he was pvp geared aswell. The thief easily 3 shot me, turned invisible and finished me off, then 3-4 shot the necromancer and killed him aswell. All the time he used heartseeker with only 1-2 other buttons.

Meanwhile in our scrap i used over 6 buttons and managed to take him for 20% of his health.
Fifth- the conclusion
In conclusion basically the thief needs to have his tools and damage changed a bit. Damage needs to be brought down definately. Although many thieves may point fingers at other classes and deny their class inevitably needs a nerf, you need to think about the balance of the game and not your personal preference to be overpowered. However if thieves do not see a nerf within the next 2 weeks I will be posting another thread with much much more proof as i will be recording, screenshotting and investigating all further fights with thieves, but really how much more proof do you need?
Edit: Sorry about the screenshot being kind of an annoyance but im still not 100% sure exactly how to work these forum posts completely as this is my first thread but after clicking the screenshot you can just go back a page back to this thread.

there are some classes that got same damage and is AOE !!! / more mobility then thief , and also got CC !!!
min 2.47-2.57- enough sayd , he burst the thief in less that 2 seconds ? please …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDZNxrRhkQ0

Overmind.3705:

A thief can use stealth to drop combat, heal to full automatically, then reengage before their target can drop combat. So it’s a free reset for the thief but not for their target.
A thief can do damage and stay stealthed. If the thief does this properly the target will not realize where the damage is coming from until it’s too late. You can never really know if you are being killed by a stealthed thief or just by an unrendered source. So you cannot simply think “I’m taking damage must be a thief” and respond accordingly because if it’s just the clipping bug then you are equally screwed. (But if you are dead in under 2sec… ya it was a thief.)
You cannot run away from a thief. It is impossible. The only thing you can hope for is that the thief doesn’t follow you for some reason. They can engage combat at the farthest range by a very large margin. They out-range and out run everything with proper use of shadowstep + other skills.
Abilities like Dancing Dagger even provide immunity. DD reflects range damage. The thief takes none of it, the source takes all of it. That’s not how Retaliation works. Dancing Dagger’s is far better. And that doesn’t show up the thief’s buffs when you look at them. The only way you find out that the spinning animation is causing you to kill yourself is either by playing a thief yourself, or by checking the combat log and then looking up the spell. It should not be necessary to look up that info when it could be displayed as a boon. (Not like you’d have time to read it but at least it’s there.)

Rangers are hard countered by Thieves. They literally have nothing that they can do against them. A ranger can design a build specifically to counter thieves and then the ranger has a chance against a mediocre thief… but not unless they do exactly that. I checked online for videos and info on rangers vs thieves. There isn’t even one youtube video where the ranger wins. (Excluding videos where the thief is totally incompetent and never stealths.)

I agree with others here about certain other skills being overpowered. Anything that kills another player in under 2 seconds is not balanced and not fun. I don’t care if the target has no defensive stats. If they are at full hp it should not be possible to die/kill that fast.

Obviously thieves should get stealth. And obviously nobody wants the clipping issue. I haven’t suggested any ways to fix this because I don’t know how to do that without unfairly destroying the class. But the first thing that should happen to all classes is that if you do not have a target you automatically fire to max range along the plane of the ground. Anything else is ridiculous as it means you simply cannot hit a target that is strafe running regardless of if they are stealthed or not. (Because you can’t lead the target otherwise.) Maybe let players see damage numbers on screen vs stealthed targets? idk.

I strongly encourage developers to google and find random videos of Thieves vs whatever. Or whatever vs Thieves. See what good players are doing vs thieves and good thieves are doing vs other players. A good thief can literally take on 4 others and win. You cannot damage something you cannot target.

In order to full heal , an thief must go out that 2000 range / that would reset combat for both
If an thief in stealth state will do any damage, he get an debuf "reveal " he cannot stealth for next 3 seconds"
Thiefs will catch most of the classes, but elementarists can outrun them
I have to agree that thief is an nightmare for ranger , i haven’t lost to an ranger yet, but an ranger combined with guardian will kill 2 vs 2 – 2 thieves. As well they got some build that can put thieves in trouble with 2 knockbacks and chill …
Dagger storm is an antiranged skill , if you use it vs an GS warrior he will kill you in 2 seconds, or vs another thief. Guardians will ignore it. Is strong vs mesmers and rangers only

My suggestion list :
skills :
wild strike – add an aoe effect
lotus strike – increase poison to 3.5 seconds
shadow’s refuge – decrease stealth time to 7 seconds
dancing dagger – increase damage by 20%
cloack and dagger – remove stealth and add 5 seconds protection or furry
vennom’s : make stacks to remain if you miss target
deception skills : give us some for underwater combat

Traits :
mug – reduce damage by 30%
Keen observer – this trait promote glas cannon build , other build will never have full health
First strikes – this trait look weak for 25 points on critical strikes, most of the times you will not have over 6 initiative
Hidden Killer – is an bit overpowered in current state
Sundering strikes – this trait could use an buff to compete with mug
Improvisation – this trait should focus on 1 type of skills
Residual vennom – looks weak for 30 points
Uncatchable – could have an 10 seconds cooldown

DeadlyRush.1620:

Rayya.2591:

i saw the thief was like 15 seconds visible , but you still didn’t attacked him

Its impossible. If you face this trick before you will understand why. If we move out from the stack he will just go invisible again with C&D. The reason why we must turtle and AOE is because we must not let him close to us so that he can use C&D. I was hitting him , see the numbers coming out. Just that it was hard to communicate with pubs.

As i said there is a way to counter it but that’s not the point. Its a low risk high reward trick that should not be in the game.

i got an thief , with over 10k WvWvW kills, so i gues i got some experience regarding thief in wvw…. that suply is hard to stealth cap , 3 necro/ elementarists can take you out of it easy.
It is true that some supply can be hold endless with stealth like the ones on top of Bay… or the one bottom of Bay…
I agree that an thief should not hold camp more then 25 seconds on stealth , but in the same time you should have an timer that you can cap points stealthed , thief’s heal is stealth
and i advice you do not do that mistake again … is better to run arround with melle weapons doing autoattacks .
An fair solution would be an smaller circle range 900 would be cool

i saw the thief was like 15 seconds visible , but you still didn’t attacked him

well not sure but
shadow refuge / spider vennom are a must in dungeons as far as i saw
even if i am not an dungeon player “made 3 this month so far” , i saw that spider vennom really shine vs bosses
as an 3’rd utility i prefer haste for time quests or burst bosses

would be nice to see border message every time i go intro WvW:
Like home borderland message: edited by commanders only

“on this border are clans xxx , yyy, fff and our main objectives are …..
please do not take supply’s from towers /keeps
Enjoy and HF :P "

Xanthian.3025:

The SFR in Riverside BG right now.. (20:11 GMT) why the hell are you a 50+ zerg lol, there’s 10 of us from FS and about 5 RS here.

Split up and lets get some decent fights.

maybe cause when we were 6 guys on map (at peak lol ) 30 riverside attack us at hills and 10 fs behind at greenlake , so we wiped you from map.

Toble.2968:

Oh my god, quit crying and go Spvp.
If all of you “Real pvpers” are leaving because of ascended gear, just know that the actual Pvpers are laughing at you because we know that gear isn’t everything, and the minuscule jump this gear makes is half a tier, not even a full tier.
It wont matter. If you are good, you will shred people in ascended gear still despite what you are wearing.
The Ascended gear is just what separates those who want to put in the extra effort versus those who put in the effort to whine about it on forums.

sPvP is cage fight, WvW is war, so please do not make comparations.
on spvp there is no place for tactics, you know where your enemy’s are, all the fight is arround 3 circles so ambush is also 80% absent over there
You should try your “skills” over there

excuse me, but wvw players feel same regarding dungeons.
So you consider is fair that 8 dungeons are an must – minimum 5 hours and 50 wvwvw kills -20 minutes are too much

i realy do not understand why everybody hate blacktide
i enjoyed the fights vs them

Sernius Alathar.6538:

PvP makes up what? 10% of the entire game. It seems rather silly to make ascended items obtainable through that sort of content, and why should it be? They deliberately decided to make them unavailable for all PvP except WvW as you can wear whatever you want there. Don’t you think its insulting to the people who made the game that your too lazy to play the content they designed for this new type of item, I hope they don’t implement it for WvW rewards.

On some servers WvWvW population is 60% +, not sure on wich servers is 10%
Regarding everything else you say , even you directly attack me , i will kindly ask you to google what Anet stated before release.

Hello,

As others had mentioned we would like to have another options to obtain ascended gear, using WvWvW reward.
An full WvWvW player will have the following : Badges , Karma, Skill points, and few gold, so my suggestion is Mystic forge :
In order to obtaion ascended item :
250 Badges
an item who worth 100.000 karma
1 eldricht scroll or 50 Crystals
an exotic item that will be upgraded to ascended

Mogar.9216:

ok fine they can have burst, they can have speed. But can we please put a 10 sec stealth timer? I’m getting sick of fighting an opponent that you can’t target for 1/2 of the fight.

no stealth = no backstab – you shot 2 rabbits with an single bullet
Smart

or you want me to continue: – no backstab = no burst
now let’s check the traits:
shadow’s embarace – remove 1 condition every 3 seconds while stealthed = remove 1 condition every 13 seconds after you use an utility
Infusion of shadow gain 2 initiative when you stealth 2 initiative every 10 seconds after you use an utility
Cloaked in shadow – going stealth blind foes – same story 10 seconds + 1 utility
Patience regain initiative faster in stealth
and now traits in the big last line : 25-30
Hidden assasin – might every time you go stealth
hideen killer – 100% critical chance on stealth
shadow’s embarance – regenerate health in stealth

Ok fine let’s say we agree with you:
what would you give in exchange for our defence, our burst, and our traits

Razarei.2809:

Because most of you in this thread are too stupid to think about what the OP is talking about before jumping on him:

Downed state is bad in large numbers.

Scenario:

10 guys vs 5 guys > Someone gets downed on the bigger team > 5 guys have to concentrate on the downed stated person to kill WHILE surviving because res speed is too fast > Neverending battle until smaller team gets wiped.

TL:DR in outnumbered fights, the smallest team will almost always lose due to the mechanic of downed state. Zergs = win, regardless of skill.

all they have to do is spam aoe in the area where that 1 guy is downed. 5 ppls aoe 1 point 4 try to ress all 4 will get downed as well

hard erhm ?

Reztek.7805:

Yes, SFR is pretty hilarious on the forums. Maybe 10% are “normal” posts. You’ll come to that conclusion in almost any of their battle threads. No matter who they play against, it’s either them being whining because of numbers or double teaming or them bragging about ‘pure’ skill. chuckles

In the end it’s just an almost 24/7 crew, mediocre though.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Seafarer-s-Rest-EU-Server-Medium-Pop-in-T3

you could lose with dignity . in the end no matter how bad SFR are , you are worse. An 24 hours hours coverage by SFR does no justify the fact FS got 60 points at peak time.
When SFR fought Blacktide , we never gave up, and we had good fights since first night , we even had more points at peak for 3-4 hours
but the fact that FS already gave up is just ….
you got 10 ppls maximum in home borderland… the issue is with you , not with SFR … in my opinion you should check your own backyard.

i got at the moment spent 1814 badges , and 850 -900 badges in inventory (from under 10.000 kills and 350 camps) but i agree some armor pieces and aceesory’s are too expensive, should be maximum 300 each , since exotic is not top anymore

Game is in progress and new items will be added over and over again. Some players just refuse to do dungeons. I refuse to do dungeons, and i hope we will have the alternative. Gold or badges , crafting

OP
those are not fixes , are sugestions
personaly i agree with none of them
there are 4 maps if you cannot handle an outmaned map move all the ppls on an single map, stick to supply camps . take 1 tower in an conner of the map and run to other tower in other conner.
Some classes (thief for example ) can have 7-8 dodge rolls in row
is easy to take map back after the zerg is gone, with own zerg ( example we took all map in 25 minutes at 4.10 am map was full green. at 4.30 map was blue.
If an server refuse to participate at wvw , i do not see any point to buff them or punish the competition.

please check attached
Dye name -heirloom

in terms of efficiency
every guardian will feel efficient in an zerg, or an small group,
His utility’s just shine over there, wall of reflection , staff 3 /4/5 , 2 buuble’s , retreat are increbile skills on assault’s / hold the line on defensive, stand your ground for toe to toe.
on the other side, thief is a lone wolf, can take supply camps , hunt yaks with an lower risk but in an zerg vs zerg his efficiency is low compared to an guardian.
he can be tactic and only scout the map for his ally’s but group utility’s are limited.

not everybody play dungeons either
as far for wvw achivement it takes 30 minutes to make 50 kills
but it take 1 day or 2 to make dungeons