Guild Wars 2

no. Even with 100 seconds cast time, it won’t affect the combo damage
unless you put an big red icon on thief’s head when he cast steal

i died 4 times today from npc’s (Veteran guards … etc ) with stealth up … not sure how new culling works but since few days npc’s keep hit me in stealth

add stability, protection , knockback/knockdown to thief , like every other class have, and i would careless about stealth

you must give more details
Your traits ?
utility’s
and the food you use.
personaly i use Sigil Of fire, but i am more tanky

Tulisin.6945:

Dunno why a couple people have noted that thieves have issues soloing supply camps. Maybe glass cannon assassin thieves. I’ve downed upgraded supply camps in less than a minute just like most professions can. For thieves you just pile them onto some caltrops, AE them, then pop dagger storm to finish. They’re NPCs, they can’t even hit you unless you stand in place.

i told i got problems to solo upgraded supply camp (with zealot and canibalist)
i want to see that
an 250 supply camp solo in less then 2 minutes, you sayed 1 minute

i had invested too much in my thief to reroll to another class, i invested 300 gold in 1 char, and i am not Pve player. I am not ready to reroll from thief to warrior or elementarist, so i gues i will drop WvW for Spvp if thief will get any nerf

PeterThomas.7243:

So I was in WvW most of the night and noticed a lot of thieves using the perma-stealth pistol build (I think it’s called the Wild Bill build?) . I saw no less than three thieves who were able to do the following solo:

a) take supply camps
b) wipe groups of 3-4 competent players while losing less than 50% health
c) engage a group of 6 determined players for 20 minutes without dying

So, while fighting these thieves over and over, I realized precisely what makes stealth so overpowered:

Its ability to interrupt your current skills in progress.

I lost count of the number of times that I targeted a thief, cast Dark Pact to try to immobilize them, but before the skill could even finish casting, poof, he’s gone, and my skill suddenly stops in mid-cast and my skill timer resets. If I had at least been able to successfully cast my spell, I could’ve still laid some AOE down on his last location, landed some successful hits with my dagger, or at least done something to inflict some damage, but no.

So how about this? Add a rule that allows skills-in-progress to connect against a player even if they enter stealth before your skill is finished casting. After that, you lose target as usual. I think that would at least give regular players a fighting chance against these builds, because right now any skill that does not have an instantaneous casting time is useless due to the fact that these thieves typically only unstealth for a single second or less.

In short, I do not believe that nerfing the Thief’s skills (duration, recharge time, etc) is necessarily the way to fix the stealth abuse issue. It seems to me that the stealth mechanic itself that needs to be looked at and reworked.

-PT

a) thief is mediocre at solo supply camp, an warrior can do it 3 times faster, an mesmer can do it 2 times faster, and ele /necro’s can solo an supply camp in less then 1 minute.
Not to mention that an thief can solo only unupgraded supply camp. an 150 Supply camp would be already dificult for an thief to solo, and an 200-250 one imposible.
b) How ? Even if he do 10.000 / every hit , the other 3 can almost instant ress the downed player.
c) engage an group of 6 unexperienced players? anytime. Engage 3 good players he die in less then 5 seconds.

there are 3 main build of thieves.
Glass cannon – this kind of thieves will mostly run with singet of assasin, and /or basilik vennom – this boys will try to burst you down in 2 -3 seconds , target him from high range, check his buffs , if he got assasin singet and basilik vennom keep range, when he stealth or try to close range gap move back and use dodge roll/ area chill / blind – if he fail initial burst he is dead, he cannot stealth to much, and he is very fragile
Condition build – this thieves will use pistol and dagger -they lack burst damage, they will keep range and try to haras you. In order to win vs them you must have an decent condition removal and healing. They are ranged and there you will kill them on range ( any class got supperior burst compared to p/d thief on range) if they try to come near you dodge roll and keep distance. They got very low damage they will only win if you ignore the bleed stacks on you.
balanced/ tanky thief. this might be considered the best toe to toe thief. they got mediocre damage , they stealth a lot and can eat some damage. General counter for this build is CC. chill , cripple and knockback /knockdown is the way to win this build. They don’t have enough damage to burst you down, so you will have to play offensive vs them . Once they waste all initiative, they will try to stealth , then is the moment to punish them knockback from refuge aoe the area and start autoattack over there or just run intro other direction and force them to reveal or reset combat .

i agree that Sb is best thief’s weapon.

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

Yes , i will help you with this:
Skills that stelth you:
1.cloack and dagger – can be countered with – dodge roll / blind /knockback /fear/knockdown / aegis / shield block from warrior/engenier /invulnerability
2. shadow refuge – if thief leave refuge before it ends – stealth is breaked and he get 3 seconds reveal debuf :
- you can fear him intro refuge
-knockback from refuge ( as an special mention guardian got 2 buubles that can do that , mesmer got an area knockback, and rangers 2 knockbacks – 1 from pet)
- or you can simple aoe the area with tons of damage untill you force him to leave.
3. Hide in shadows – this skill got an cast time, so it can be intrerupted by knockdowns, knockbacks ,stuns /daze/ fear, or you can cast channeling spell while he cast hide in shadows
4. blinding powder – this is thief’s panic button you cannot break this steath -it has an 40 seconds cooldown -last 3 seconds and have an casting animation- wich will help you to predict thief’s position after he stealth

is not about stealth. is not about skill. Is related with player experience. If an player take thief class and play it – will learn to counter it. Same goes with mesmer, guardian warrior, if i know that guardian can heal 9000 hp every 32 seconds, i will try to use my burst only after he used SY and that 9000 heal.
When i fight vs an thief i know he got shadow refuge and hide in shadows. 80 % of thieves i kill die in shadow refuge , because i am an thief myself and i can predict where he will move in refuge, and i realise if he get downed while in refuge even if i don’t see that. Is no skill in that is only game experience. 3 weeks ago i had real issues with burst warriors, so i played for 8 hours warrior in Spvp , and i know the cooldown of warrior skills now, animation and effect of each skill , wich make it very easy to predict how much time i have betwen his bursts to attack him.
Take an thief, play him for 2 days play at least 4-5 hours backstab thief , 4 hours S/d Thief , 4 -5 hours condition thief, and you will see how you get countered.

sorrow.2364:

For instance, once you hit a thief with any of your skills or the thief is close to you for a not-too-short period of time, you should be able to see its silhouette for an istant. Obviously, this should be counterbalanced giving more stealth duration.

In this way, bad thieves don’t get a real advantage from stealth while good players have a chance to counter stealth and good thieves get advantages due to increased stealth duration, giving more gap to skill floor and ceiling.

sure , so players who use minimum details in options should had an disadvantage compared to the rest.
That would be called skill ? In fact in some players opinion they are skilled when they fight in wvw with an 3000 euro pc and kill an enemy with 5 fps . Just for your information, bad player is not an player who don’t react in time when you attack him, is an player who use wrong skill when he fight you, he refuse to help downed ally and he start resurect after he is dead, is an player who spam all his skills and then run away, is an player wich only use dodge to move from 1 location to another… etc

guardians..
*Message Body length must at least be 15.

when i get warriors downed in 1 vs 1, i never finish them – i use 2 autoattacks then /dance – untill they use revenge – i use hide in shadows and /dance again. None of them did rally yet

Einzelganger.4152:

Here is the exploit.
When the pistol/dagger combo is equipped many thieves will take advantage of the fact that skill number 1, ‘vital shot’, causes bleeds (condition damage) over time (with stacking ability) and costs ZER0 initiative to utilize it and if an opponent gets too close that thief can simply use ‘cloak and dagger’ to stealth or various other methods/utilities to stealth like blinding dust, refuge or even steal with stealth trait attached.
The solution.
Quite possibly the easiest fix to one of the biggest exploits in this game.
Have ‘VITAL SHOT’ cost INITIATIVE. Find out the math behind if 1 to 1.5 to 2 initiative per vital shot round is reasonable. This will eliminate the exploitation of THE condition thief pistol/dagger combo to a certain degree, and there will be very few complaints….until the culling issue problem with thieves get solved of course.
Again, I am a thief and I actually like using this build, but I believe in fairness.

I know few exploits too !!!
there are some players that use condition removal , and no matter how much bleed i add, they remove it every few seconds.
Here is the fix :
ah wait there is no exploit

may i ask an silly question ?
Why would 8 ppls chase 1 thief for 10 minutes? He trolled you. I do that every day, every time i am bored.
I hit ppls to annoy them, with bow from range , stealth, take some distance and /wave and again and again. Sometimes i manage to keep 20 enemy’s on my back for few minutes while my server attack an objective, and i stop them to defend.
My weakness in this tactic is not Aoe from elementarist, is damage from glass cannon warriors /thieves / Eng – and knockbacks /clones /pets, and elementarists got an channeling spell for few seconds. 1 Ele channel it and 1 warrior do autoattacks on the area – Good Game.

Aeranima.2853:

I want the cooldown on weapons removed. By this I mean when you switch to another weapon.
Why would you “wait” a “little while” until you decide to switch? Imagine if this was irl, that would be very wierd. The idea is useless/pointless and should be removed. This way you get more intense fighting when jumping back and forth between ranged and close-ranged weapons. And it would be a lot more fun. At least for me as a thief.

Aeranima aka Aeonixus in game.

Sigil of energy is Cool , however, it cannot be compared to Sigil of battle ( 3 stacks of might for 20 seconds when you swap weapon in combat) so you swap weapon 10 times in 2 seconds you get 30 stacks of might just like that
So infinite dodge and might – Cool sugestion
-10

Dear A-net

I am not really an trader, or farmer , so i did not noticed this untill today. I see there are Rare backpacks at 3-5 silver , with same stats as guild backpacks that cost 5 gold. Kindly ask you to boost Guild backpacks status at exotic, since i consider it unfair. Even if some can say is for appearance , 1 fine transumation stone don’t worth 3.95 gold., if you would take it for appearance you could buy the 1 gold and transmutate it.

Thank you,
Regards.

WvWvW weekly achivements. – in order to benefit WvWvW bonusses you must complete wvwvw achivements – 100 Kills / 5 towers assaulted / 3 keeps assaulted /5 towers defended .

Silverthorn.8576:

Next time do a screen of your map on prime time! I didn’t see a lot of blue yesterday.
You can almost play the third place this week! grats.

with average 1 player / map on Fr /gandara borderlands, and smal team on other 2 borderlands, i can say i am ok with 3’rd place. Wich makes you wonder, how can 1-2 players can hold average 15 points for 6 hours at peak.
But for your entertain i will post this
Wonder what achivements “the winners” got ^^

sorrow.2364:

Someone said that thieves are squishy.
lol

they are compared with Overpowered guardians ^^

Thief can be an monster in WvW if played correctly, he can kill you /laugh and go away
However most of the times i prefer to have an thief chasing me , then an GS warrior or D/D elementarist. Cause i know if the thief make an single mistake or i can see his next move he is out of combat , dead.
I am not sure , where this mecanism work , low risk high reward, but i tell you for sure i punished over 2000 Glass cannon thieves.

Thx FR :P . I assume you were bored to chase me inside the tower

Sifu.6527:

STRanger.5120:

Eodwen.2613:

Piedplat.3597:

the stealth mode is a joke, more time on the “cant-be-stealth” debuff . (sorry cant remember the name I cant see it, the time is short on it…)

http://youtu.be/7799to8aGcQ

I dont know if he’s hacking or not. But if is not, seriously that class and any class with stealth is really OP…

The revealed debuff is 3 seconds and the stealth can go up to 3 seconds if you trait it. WvsWvsW is known to have the issue of not showing the target player right away. That is in fact a wvsw issue and not a class issue.

^^This

Seriously ppl, don´t post this complain over and over again, it has been told a thousand times before, that this is not Stealth problem, but the server/rendering issue. Therefore it has nothing to do with the class or any other class with stealth abilities, got it?
Thanks for finally understanding this.

Acutally, the server/rendering issue is only 1/2 of the problem.

It is a stealth mechanic problem, or at least in my opinion. The reveal debuff only applies if the thief attacks from stealth regardless if the thief is in combat or not. You can CnD for 3 sec of stealth or 4 sec if traited, wait for stealth to end and CnD again for another 3-4 sec, then you can use Hide in the shadow for another 3-4 sec. By this time you have enough init for another CnD. (this is just an example as there are different combinations for extending stealth).

You add in server/rendering issue in WvW which gives thieves a .5-1 sec delay coming out of stealth…now you can see how frustrating it is to fight a thief.

Is it working as intend? Probably but I can’t say for certain. Maybe they will fix it where all stealth triggers reveal once it ends. Who knows. In the meantime, deal with it.

i feel same way when i escaped from an combat with my downed stealth and pet / clones/npc hit me even if players don’t know i am there. How is that fair ?

dear A-net

Even if we asked many times before, i am going to ask this again.
Buff the thief underwater !!!!
no deception skill underwater
no stealth
No elites underwater
Mediocre burst compared to other classes, even low
what you espect from thief to do underwater

snizzle.6143:

yeah and i want a 10 seconds invul with 9 seconds cooldonw ;P. Be seriusly

i do not troll my friend
you want to add an cooldown to an 450 range leap (for an class who is supposed to have best mobility ingame, when warrior /guardian can leap at 600 +range). Cause i assume you want cooldowns cause heartseeker or C&D (wich will hit in best situation for 5000 damage in wvw . and you can already use it once at 4 seconds

snizzle.6143:

Hello Guys,

My question ist, why should the Thief have a diffrent system than all other classes ?
I know many thief players would say the class cant exist without it. But lets discuss that issue.
In my oppinion the ini System should be changed to give all classes the same issue with managing cooldowns. In fact it will brake many players neck if they cant press 4 times the same skill just to do burst damage. But we all know that this is not the only way to play a thief and its not very trickery or clever played method. I think there are other good options like sword/dagger and so on. Of course everything will be diffrent an there will be other thinks to change with it.

So lets talk about it who can imagine that and what would have to be diffrend in skill, traits and of course playstyle.

Did you took intro consideration that , if ini system would be changed , thieves skills would be changed also. and since thieves should have most damage /burst since they are the "assasins " and warriors can hit 20k damage with HB, so please post your ideea here for thieves .
Mine is – thief with 3000 attack vs 3000 heavy armor target
1.backstab 5000 /hit – 12500 backstab – 10 sec cooldown
2.heartseeker 3000 /hit – 7500 critical – 5 sec cooldown
3.DB – add poison 7 seconds – 1500 damage /chill – 7 seconds / bleed 7 seconds 5000 damage – cooldown 10 seconds
4. dancing dagger – 4 targets 2500 damage – 5 sec cripple *- 6000 critical
5. cloack and dagger – 3500 damage – 8500 critical /5x vulnerability /3 sec stealth – 10 sec cooldown

i would not combine too much cond damage with precision

i do not agree with your ideea OP
this would decrease the burst for D *D
S/D or S/ P is more an constant damage build not burst build
and would be OP for S/ P build with trained initiative f1- 3 -2 – 3 – 2 gg

i agree with OP
i got killed several times by this trait, specialy when i used dagger storm /bow -cluster
i would suggest an option to dezactivate it, switch it with something else (aegis /regeneration 5 s ) or to remove reveal from this trait.
When you fight 1 vs 1 it can be controlled , but in 10 vs 10 it cannot be anymore

you forget the initiative, thief class specific
yes steal alone is weak compared to virtues or pet or adrenaline, but consider initiative is also class specific, and trained is furry might swif for you and nearby ally’s +regeneration for ally

no more cap in stealth(

i just transfered today on Fs, from an top server, cause my pc cannot handle large scale battles anymore
My first impresion after 1 hour of WvWvW in Fs
pro’s : is on low tier at this moment so it has an chance to rebuild
few dedicated players
con’s : main : to low manpower at the moment , and few other minor issues

I had played last 3 weeks a lot in WvWvW and i already got near 2000 Badges, after i spend few on weapons.
My question is , should i expect the “new” ascended available for badges, or i should drop WvWvW for 1-2 weeks to farm the top items. i ask since i am an bit jealous on some friends that got 3-4 ascended rings each already (but they are account bound) \
Any oppinions ? should i wait for the new patch , or start Pve?

Snapple.9251:

Rayya.2591:

Somebody from Iron can explain this please ?
10 minutes scale vennom ?
http://startcut.com/player/video/f7b762e03cd811e2ae9314dae9ef68f9
I added an short fraps to see is not icon bugg
if you cannot see it tell me where to upload it
Edit you can also see first screen he had it for 5 min then 10 min even if he was alone so was self buff, and from thief last 30 seconds or 3 attacks

I believe there is a consumable you can buy that applies that buff for 10 minutes.
It only procs on a cooldown though (not tried it myself).

it might be posible, that is why i didn’t made an report and cammed ask here, since i didn’t tested all consumables

Somebody from Iron can explain this please ?
10 minutes scale vennom ?
http://startcut.com/player/video/f7b762e03cd811e2ae9314dae9ef68f9
I added an short fraps to see is not icon bugg
if you cannot see it tell me where to upload it
Edit you can also see first screen he had it for 5 min then 10 min even if he was alone so was self buff, and from thief last 30 seconds or 3 attacks

Plaxy.4617:

Yha 24 stacks of might + 25 blood lust is is + 1100 =4500 attack if he’s full Berk with 254% crit damage so 4500*1100*2.4(Backstab skill mod /2900)=10400 (approx after 2.54 crit modifier) then he could potentially have up to about another 72% damage mod from traits so he could hit alot harder. with that many stacks of Might and bloodlust.

how can he have 72% mod from trait? 10% expose weakness + 10% first strikes + 5% Dagger trainning +5% flanking strikes= 30% and 24 stacks of might, weren’t there

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

Rayya.2591:

Since moderator say is thief related i will coppy // past it here
Even In my oppinion i belive is some kind of bug
Ok , i will not complain about it , i am an thief as well.
I assume is was some kind of bug, because in over 1000 hours of wvw this is the first time it happens to me,i normaly eat max 6000 backstab at my defence, but i would also accept an logical explanation if it wasn’t an bug.
I eat an backstab of 12000 Damage, but more interestion is the cloack and dagger who hit me for 6500 damage
In 1’st attached screen are my stats downed ( traits off, with traits my defence is with 300 more ), in second screen my “normal” stats
The thief who bursted me had no nourishment bonuses but it had 25 stacks of bloodlust

Some of us in desolation have been running with staff guardians for empower thats 12 stacks of might or 24 if there were 2, was it a 1v1 situation, but I personally have never hit 12k with backstab on a level 80, but I usually am solo.

well we play vs eachother since 9 days already max damage i received before today was somewhere arround 6000-6500 from an backstab. Not sure if 12 stacks of might can make such an huge diference, i had 2800 armor, wich is above average.

Since moderator say is thief related i will coppy // past it here
Even In my oppinion i belive is some kind of bug
Ok , i will not complain about it , i am an thief as well.
I assume is was some kind of bug, because in over 1000 hours of wvw this is the first time it happens to me,i normaly eat max 6000 backstab at my defence, but i would also accept an logical explanation if it wasn’t an bug.
I eat an backstab of 12000 Damage, but more interestion is the cloack and dagger who hit me for 6500 damage
In 1’st attached screen are my stats downed ( traits off, with traits my defence is with 300 more ), in second screen my “normal” stats
The thief who bursted me had no nourishment bonuses but it had 25 stacks of bloodlust

Ok , i will not complain about it , i am an thief as well.
I assume is was some kind of bug, because in over 1000 hours of wvw this is the first time it happens to me,i normaly eat max 6000 backstab at my defence, but i would also accept an logical explanation if it wasn’t an bug.
I eat an backstab of 12000 Damage, but more interestion is the cloack and dagger who hit me for 6500 damage
In 1’st attached screen are my stats downed ( traits off, with traits my defence is with 300 more ), in second screen my “normal” stats
The thief who bursted me had no nourishment bonuses but it had 25 stacks of bloodlust

we are still on first day , remember that
regarding numbers vs quality BB mentioned, today you only had 1 attempt of tactic in your borderland, when you went at greenvale with 20 Romans, and struggled in an supply camp vs randoms who didn’t followed commander, where you failed, after that nothing. No camp harass for SFR or Desolation, no rush on our towers to make us retreat from garnizon. I expected more presure from you guys.Maybe in next days
Regarding T1 , i know Blacktide wait for us, but that’s no problem, i enjoyed prev. match vs them, and base clans were there Xaoc , CIR ….

ah i understand , thx for explanation

Puandro.3245:

Fear goes through Stability.

according to skill description it should not

would be nice if i could get an answer from an moderator /developer

Kraken.7514:

It was not my intention to hurt your feelings, I was just stating the facts based on my experience and giving my opinion, I apologize if anyone felt offended or provoked.

I still think the key is in the numbers.

SFR has a huge WvW population but I don’t see any difference at all in tactics or player quality. Last time we met SFR, I did see it and I acknowledged in the forums, prasing SFR organization and gameplay (suprisingly I got flamed for that also XD).

Not this time around.

My impression, based on experience, is that our tactics are better and our soldiers are stronger as we win every single fight.

Although it is always dangerous to generalize taking into account I can only be in one map at a time and I only play in a certain timetable.

you didn’t hurt nobody , relax, everybody expresed own oppinion
I am just honored that i make part of an big zerg with no tactics and full of bad players that can keep 400 points at peak

It is bugged ? some necro’s just fear me intro daggerstorm and intrerupt the cast

sorrow.2364:

themaster.9802:

Thief is probably the squishiest class in the game and probably one of the most difficult to play. Far from OP.

I laughed at this.
Quickness heartseeker spammers say hello!

this combo would even fail vs NPC’s

From an Sfr player oppinion.
I trolled 20 -25 BB in an supply camp with Thief’s stealth for 15 minutes 3 times already, but 3-4 desolation instant kill me.
In mass fights i see some desolation groups doing good, push good but i didn’t saw an strong fast push from BB yet.

Temperantia.3207:

…when they’re naked and guildless?

Can I have a psychologycal approach?

naked char / guildless – alt char , he use 5 chars to farm badges
to balance sides, if somebody want free badges must earn them

i hear about infinite heal from guardians but in fact they can heal only for like 35.000 hp in 30 seconds
should i ask for an nerf ? cause in no way i can kill an bunker guardian

Likta.9280:

tagnut.8621:

^^^^

He’s going to be awfully upset when he realises that neither desolation nor seafarers have a nightcapping crew either, and that those queue times are pretty much the same as on SFR……

I wish you guys best of luck in Tier 1 in the future. Blacktide and Vizunah have your CRAZY numbers too and are way ahead of SFR in every regard. When you see 25 ppl from Red Guard, just run. They WILL crush your Zerg.

ye ye , i heard stories about iron also, but they were only stories :P