Guild Wars 2

Gungnir Grimm.7123:

Rayya, if you are only using 2 buttons and people are getting away from you, you are using P/D at nowhere near peak efficiency. that said, with the standard 0/0/30/20/20 build and full carrion gear, your main attack is CnD followed by sneak attack. you can time CnD by your auto attacks, every 2 auto attacks is the minimum time you can wait to get another stealth off of CnD. don’t ignore dancing dagger, it is a nice way to catch runners, since the build isn’t as mobile as other thief builds. another thing is weapon swap. you do have 2 sets of weapons after all. try using D/D in your second slot. death blossom can stack long duration AoE bleeds quickly under evasion for a good chunk of the time you are using it. you can burn through your initiative using DB, utility or heal into stealth, sneak attack and be ready to stealth again as soon as revealed wears off. you can make good use of geomancy sigils like this. just be sure to keep a shortbow in your bags.

where bleed duration is concerned, pistol bleeds need 25% bleed duration to get an extra tick, where DB needs only 10%. take that into account when you rune/sigil your gear and chose your food. you can easily get to 75% bleed duration with 3 krait and 3 affliction runes, a superior agony sigil, and super or rare veggie pizza. more bleed duration helps pistol bleeds more than DB even though DB gets more duration simply because conditions get cleansed throughout a fight. caltrops are your best friend against players that dont know how to maneuver.

in stealth keep your movement unpredictable. you will be in stealth a lot, so don’t always move the same way. move away one time, move behind them another. break away in different directions. if you get predictable in stealth things can get sticky, you will have a high health pool (for a thief/guardian/elementalist), but only 300 above base toughness. you can drop caltrops without leaving stealth, so consider doing that before sneak attacking.

this is just what I can think of now, let me know if you have any other questions about the build or how to play it. I’ll help however I can.

Sorry if my post sound offending . i’ve used the build only in sPvP , it was fun for few matches, but when i refered to low mobility , i took in reference the fact that i ignored a lot of fights vs p/d thieves in wvw with my thief , guardian or warrior, since if i run intro an tanky build with ls food an 1 vs 1 can go over 10 minutes. . The ideea of p/d build is to continue hit your target to stack bleed. If your target got an decent mobility and even an mediocre condition removal/regeneration, it will be dificult to catch him and kill him.
As for initiative spend to close the gap it is not safe to chase an GS warrior with hs spam (for example ) , you might have an warrior who turn arround after you use 4-5 Hs – trow bolas and hb on you before you remove the imobilize.

1.Guardians.
Signet of shadows provide 25% movespeed, swiftness 33%, guardians can mentain swiftness up 90-100% of the time with 2 shouts, as well shouts will remove an condition ( imobilize). gs leap got 600 range as far as i remember and judge’s intervention 1200 range ( all you have to do is to target an mob (agresive pasive or neutral) at 1200 -2000 + range or enemy and you will teleport in that direction. 75% of guardian use gs and judge’s intervention in wvw. steal got an 900 range as far as i know and if target is not in the range you will not teleport. regarding the other utility’s 90% of p/D thief use Shadow refuge in 1 slot , 1 vennom and Signet of shadows or 1 stun breaker like infiltrator signet. But even if you are able to close gap with utility’s you will have to kill an running guardian (posible with 1/2 pasive condition removals) and 8400 heal every 30 seconds, wich is kinda hard, trust me , i won’t say imposible , is related to player’s experience, but vs decent guardian is almost imposible.
edit * aegis also block skills or hits every 40 seconds, at 50% hp , when you activate retreat or virtue (not sure if shadowstep is blocked or only damage , i am sure that stuns and imobilize are blocked
2. Warriors. most of warriors in wvw got greatsword and bull charge – correct me if i am wrong. Those provide 3 movement skills, wich will break imobilize (mobile strikes- an common trait for warriors) Now whirlwind will be first skill used to escape since is ground targeting skill and many warriors use autotarget ( not my case but many use it) wich will leap to 450 range with 8 seconds cooldown followed by rush at 1200 range with 16 seconds cooldown and by bullcharge at 900 range with 40 seconds cooldown (same as your steal).
Regardin D/D elementarist i belive is clear that you will not catch that guy unless he want to. Blink mistform , skill nor 4 from air, and swiftness
Yes is true that p/d thieves win a lot of 1 vs 1 , but this is because most of ppls ignore condition damage untill is too late and you find yourself with 15 stacks of bleed vs an invisible enemy, but is posible to dodge that fight very easy

I suggest you to do not waste time in P/D thief. They are boring mostly use only 2 buttons 1 and 5 + dodge rolls. your 1 vs 1 fights will go over 2 minutes vs any decent player in wvw, and many players will simply ignore you and go away, since you got no gap closer on P /D weapon set you will have trouble to catch players that want to avoid an fight vs you.
I’ve made an P/d thief in sPvP with 5x necromancer runes 1x divinity , rabid amulet arround 1300 cond damage. Survaivability is insane on this build , i’ve had arround 10-18 kills /game at my lvl, random games .The game play was not interactive at all, most like boring.

vrilek.4038:

Rayya.2591:

i’ve lost to an single p/d thief 1 vs 1 as an D/D thief, i overextended, and at 3k hp i failed use falling damage for an free stealth ^^
P/D weakness – limited mobility.
Poor acces to direct damage
An thief with cond removal on stealth will usualy have no problem vs P/D thieves.
Constant imobilize can also destroy them . Specialy if you got the trait -going stealth blind enemy foes and C&d before them.

p/d has outstanding mobility!!
many cond removals? no problem for decent p/d thief.
c&d blind him and its all over… w8 something wrong

“i’ve lost to an single p/d thief 1 vs 1 as an D/D thief”
that kind of argument is the worst one in gw2 ever!
i can tell you i havent lost 1v1 vs any thief playing as p/d.
s/d very irritating, but too low dmg vs decent mobility, s/p stronger type but nothing special, d/d cond meele range.. no chance vs good positioning, d/d glass free kill.
and?..
many topics with no real thing, so many builds everyone op vs others… Guys it all about skill.

Since when Sir ?
i can reset combat vs p/d thief with guardian /warrior / main hand dagger (without any stealth ) / elementarist / mesmer,
all i need is an blink / few leaps in the other direction without autotarget
how will you close gap ?
you will cripple me with dancing dagger and walk to me explain me, what is your gap closer , if i decide you are borring and leave the battle . NONE !!!
Specialy that you keep the battle at over 400 range , even if you have another weapon set, and you are “Skilled enough to change it in time” i will be long time gone , afk for cigareth till you reach at me.
I am sorry to tell you , but P/D thief lack mobility , ofc you can prove me i am worng , maybe we try an 1 vs 1 next week

i’ve lost to an single p/d thief 1 vs 1 as an D/D thief, i overextended, and at 3k hp i failed use falling damage for an free stealth ^^
P/D weakness – limited mobility.
Poor acces to direct damage
An thief with cond removal on stealth will usualy have no problem vs P/D thieves.
Constant imobilize can also destroy them . Specialy if you got the trait -going stealth blind enemy foes and C&d before them.

Topher.1684:

Rayya.2591:

Topher- i am not really sure i understand your point, but what i understood from your post is : Thieves can do fractals and can be good at them. But the whole ideea of the topic is : Why should you invite an thief in fractals ? 80% of thieves in an fractal will be less efficient then any other class.
and i do not consider your build efficinet since as far as you explained it lacks DPS. Maybe you can detail it more , but 20 points in acrobatics and 10 points in Sa with an S/D build will only provide below average DPS. What do ppls look for is an fast daily party , they are not up to stay more then1 hour /daily at lvl 10 – 20. And most of ppls doubt an thief can help in accomplish that.

The tanky build I was describing was to compare it with your tanky war. No matter the class, if you build your character tanky, you will obviously be doing less damage then the average DPS player. If this weren’t the case, then EVERYONE would always build tanky, cuz hey, tank + great dps?!

For the record, my build for fractals is 0/30/30/10/0, S/D + SB, full valk gear with ruby obs (although I think I may still have 1 or 2 Divinity Runes left), ruby acc, zerker weapons. This build can still “tank” most of the time when it needs to, while still putting out good numbers. I won’t be beating pure dps specs, but then again, I don’t expect to. My uptime on mobs/boss is high, and I’m normally one of the last people to go down.

I will agree, there are plenty of horribly Thieves, but no more then any other class. It’s the same reason most people avoid signet warriors. To me it screams I don’t want to deal with utility management (most, if not all signet warriors I see never actually use their signets).

Well my tanky war stats are without any food or boon :
3050 power / 36 critical chance (46 with food) / 88 critical power
2950 armor / 21.000 hp / 350 hp /second + food when i hit
arround 5-6 seconds stability (trait , not sure about duration ), 9 sec imunity to psihical damage trait +active, 2-3 imobilize break skills , and an pasive movement skill.
Combined with 2 disables -single target or aoe- depending on where i go pve ( only 1) /fractals sometimes 1 +frenzy or the great justice /wvw.
It is not an burst build, since my damage could go up with 35% if i would change traits
but is above average

Topher- i am not really sure i understand your point, but what i understood from your post is : Thieves can do fractals and can be good at them. But the whole ideea of the topic is : Why should you invite an thief in fractals ? 80% of thieves in an fractal will be less efficient then any other class.
and i do not consider your build efficinet since as far as you explained it lacks DPS. Maybe you can detail it more , but 20 points in acrobatics and 10 points in Sa with an S/D build will only provide below average DPS. What do ppls look for is an fast daily party , they are not up to stay more then1 hour /daily at lvl 10 – 20. And most of ppls doubt an thief can help in accomplish that.

stof.9341:

Rayya.2591:

is situational dude . There are some bossos that you cannot do on melle, or is not efficient to stay on melle at them. As an example i give you the last boss. or cliffside fractal,

What It’s one melee.

wich one ? since you cut out of what i wrote ?
the last one in volcanic , or the first one in clffside ?
i am confused? ,

try to use ambush trap as much as posible. But as others told before C&D is best skill to constant lose agro. You can also use condition damage on armors and kill with caltrops DB and dancing dagger

haviz.1340:

Rayya.2591:

An good thief will stay in back and will do constant damage , will drop shadow refuge on downed ally’s , not safe it for himself, and switch weapons and utility’s anytime is needed.

Just like good warriors stay in the back with a rifle!

is situational dude . There are some bossos that you cannot do on melle, or is not efficient to stay on melle at them. As an example i give you volcanic fractal , the last boss. or cliffside fractal, dredge fractal.

Ruin.3461:

Signet warrior, nothing to see here.

makes me wonder …. cause out of 100 thieves 99 use signet of shadows and 30 use second signet either assasin singet or the infiltrator’s signet
So detail your point , out of 3 utility’s 2 signets

haviz.1340:

Rayya.2591:

for your record i got 700 + hours on thief, with 17000 kills on wvw and positive win /lose in sPvP
So explain me now about your constant condition removal outside stealth and sword main hand. ah an condition removal from singet of agility once at 30 seconds. Withdraw or hide in shadows will not provide condition removal only specific ones.
So what endurance refull we talk about ? the 3’rd hit from normal atack ?
at least warrior with rifle got an knockback ^^
Sorry for grammair, at least here you got an point, out of 4 posts

RfI coupled with HiS won’t remove only conditions like vulnerability. while giving you two more dodges. Shadow return cures 3 condition. Minor 15 trait in acrobatics gives you about 15 endurance with each dodge effectively lowering the cost of a dodge to 35 endurance. If you completely get swarmed with condition, get a sigil of purity/generosity. Now tell me about a warrior with constant condition removal, ability to “tank” and dealing tons of damage.

i asked you for condition removal outside stealth and sword main hand. You already point me 2 skills and RfI got an nice cooldown-60 sec ?. As well if you use hide in shadows you will lose constant hp regen from singet of malice.
Mending -25 sec cooldown , cures 2 conditions. Singet of stamina – cures all conditions. Shake it off – cures an condition to you and ally’s you can pick it as trait and utility. Solider runes . shouts cures conditions , and if you spec intro shouts they also heal , and got an good cooldown 20 seconds- 24
As well warrior is well known as hightest hp ingame class, conditions are not the big problems, specialy when you use lifesteal food and stay constant in battle.

i like the rifle, specialy in pvp , when an thief jump in your back. knock back with 5 and hit volley. In WvW i usualy do up to 6-7k damage with volley on medium /light armors

Evalia.7103:

Rayya.2591:

Asgard.7429:

Rayya.2591:

i got similar stats with greatsword as you and is kinda tanky for wvw.
I don’t use condition removal at all , and i regen 350-360 hp /sec
3050 attack
36 % critical chance
83 % critical power
2914 armor
21592 hp /385 healing power
but as secondary weapon i prefer riffle. it gives me great advantage vs elementarists /1 knockback vs thieves /warriors /guardians followed by an 5k damage volley looks better

Can you post your build and your armor please. The stats are very interesting. I search for a new build.
Thx

Knight rings , helm, pants, bersek chest , boots gloves shoulders, amulet, divinity runes, karka earing, ascended back piece.
Took divinity runes +karka earing for 85 too all stats , and 30 points on defene , with an total 385 healing power, since from 379 HP , pasive from healing singet change, not too much but had to test it ^^. is arround 350 hp /sec with adrenal heal

I find it funny that your overall 350 HP/S is inferior to warrior regeneration who was not lazy to pick-up omnomberry ghosts/pies

not when an zerg chase you and you cannot hit

haviz.1340:

Rayya.2591:

you make statements based on other ppls experience , without knowing the subject you talk about.
You blame warriors that use singets , but you don’t know active effects of that singets.
You invoke skill as blind to protect an entire party from damage. If you act like this you will not be able to compete with an guardian or warrior in dungeons. Thieves got own conner over there, and an well placed smokescreen shadow refuge can make the diference betwen win or lose in some situations. They can clean some mobs , thanks to ability to stelath 80% of the time, that are dificult for other classes,but they will not be able to tank more then trash mobs. They got condition removal only stealthed or sword main hand ,no protection buff, no stability or aegis. Life regeneration is constant only from singet of malice and food, from initiative or vennom’s is situational -few hits only and they got medium armor. So in order to surive you will have to constant stealth, wich will not keep mob’s agresion, How will you tank ?

Isn’t this a pot calling a kettle black? You obviously has no idea about thief condition removal and its survival skills. It’s an mobile class with a lot of evades built-in few skills and acrobatic tree partially refills your endurance with every dodge. Even autoattacks on dagger mainhand gives you 10% of endurance back. For a record, I have a guardian, I even have been playing him more than a thief, I know what guardian can do.

Can you stop trying to “tank” in this game, especially with your rifle?

And please, for the love of god, start using some kind of spell checker.

for your record i got 700 + hours on thief, with 17000 kills on wvw and positive win /lose in sPvP
So explain me now about your constant condition removal outside stealth and sword main hand. ah an condition removal from singet of agility once at 30 seconds. Withdraw or hide in shadows will not provide condition removal only specific ones.
So what endurance refull we talk about ? the 3’rd hit from normal atack ?
at least warrior with rifle got an knockback ^^
Sorry for grammair, at least here you got an point, out of 4 posts

haviz.1340:

Rayya.2591:

-snip-

Reading your “assumptions” hurts eyes. I surrender, obviously I can’t compete with holy guardian/warrior duo.

you make statements based on other ppls experience , without knowing the subject you talk about.
You blame warriors that use singets , but you don’t know active effects of that singets.
You invoke skill as blind to protect an entire party from damage. If you act like this you will not be able to compete with an guardian or warrior in dungeons. Thieves got own conner over there, and an well placed smokescreen shadow refuge can make the diference betwen win or lose in some situations. They can clean some mobs , thanks to ability to stelath 80% of the time, that are dificult for other classes,but they will not be able to tank more then trash mobs. They got condition removal only stealthed or sword main hand ,no protection buff, no stability or aegis. Life regeneration is constant only from singet of malice and food, from initiative or vennom’s is situational -few hits only and they got medium armor. So in order to surive you will have to constant stealth, wich will not keep mob’s agresion, How will you tank ?

haviz.1340:

Rayya.2591:

1. ofc they aren’t high, i do not use an burst spec. The diference betwen warrior’s volley and thief’s unload is that warrior can go intro melle when he lost boss agro, use rush -100 b- whirlwind combo 20 k damage+ and he is again on range with 5 seconds weapon swap. If thief go in melle to do few backstabs he will have 10 seconds reuse on weapon swap and he will be out of initiative when he retreat
2. yes i do consider guardian tank. first hit he take -blocked by aegis – aegis give retailation and heal on removal. Next 3 hits are blocked by focus. at 50% guardian recive another free aegis +heal on removal + retailation. Tank in Gw2 is not like in other games where you could absorb tones of damage, Smite from scepter do fair damage, is not an channeling spell and will continue damage on targeted area even if you use other attacks or dodge

1. You have strange ideas about how fights look like. So you’re only meleeing when you don’t have boss aggro and just stay range if you do, right? No wonder there are so many warriors with Greatsword & rifle. For reference, an example: I have 4 warriors in Arah, here comes lupi fight and everyone uses rifle and poor ele (or thief) is at his feet trying to melee him! Hilarious sight. Not everyone plays like your average gs/rifle warrior (preferably with 5 signets).

My unload was just a reference, no sane thief is using p/p, it’s a bad weapon set.

2. How about a thief tanking few mobs while standing in black powder or using stealth skills to blind? Or just using evasion skill? Or an ele with focus and mist form being invulnerable for 7 seconds. Or necro with well of darkness and plague who can blind mobs in area for 25 seconds reducing incoming damage by 90%. You can mitigate tons of damage, not just 4 hits with your guardian.

1. i do not do arah, i started fractals 4 days ago. Atm at lvl 20. Siting on melle vs some type of bosses is duable. but vs some bosses just will not work. you give example of 4 warrior and 5’th any other profesion.
Warrior got an skill called trow bolas – wich imobilize enemy for 4 seconds with 0 condition duration and an 20 seconds cooldown not trained. considering 4 warriors will time trow bolas , the champion will not be able to do an single hit on melle.
warrior got an decent mobility with gs and 5 seconds weapon swap.So consider that i can do my gs combo in 5 seconds then continue hit rb from range , wich you are not able to do with thief.
Regarding singets: i Use singet of rage – elite skill , and healing singet , wich i trained for to provide me 230 hp /second as pasive regeneration with adrenal heal 350 HP second, since i consider them best in slot. Situational i add singet of stamina in Pve at some bosses when constant dodge is necesarly.
As for the rest of utility’s i pick, depending on situation betwen : endurance pain , stomp, trow bolas , frenzy ,“for great justice”.
Not sure where you read that singets are bad for warrior , they aren’t best in slot utility’s but they are decent.
Anyway i am waiting for your google search ability’s to explain me what ability’s should use an above average warrior, since i belive that you do not talk from own experience.
2. i am not sure what kind of mobs you tank with your thief, maybe rabits , since you won’t tank many aoe damage with your blind.
3 since thieves are master of mobility , and supposed to deal great damage i assume you use singet of assasin, singet of shadows and shadow refuge cause is popular , but with 2 singets you will not compete with 5 singets warriors , sorry 4 you
4. Guardian got also an invulnerability skill for himself 3 seconds -5 trained and the bubble for 6 seconds where all ally’s can stay inside and enemy’s / projectiles cannot enter. Enough to be better tank then an mistform elementarist?
and 5. regarding arah : i can clear path till lupicus by myself if i try hard enough, do not compare fractals with arah, diferent storyes

Asgard.7429:

Rayya.2591:

i got similar stats with greatsword as you and is kinda tanky for wvw.
I don’t use condition removal at all , and i regen 350-360 hp /sec
3050 attack
36 % critical chance
83 % critical power
2914 armor
21592 hp /385 healing power
but as secondary weapon i prefer riffle. it gives me great advantage vs elementarists /1 knockback vs thieves /warriors /guardians followed by an 5k damage volley looks better

Can you post your build and your armor please. The stats are very interesting. I search for a new build.
Thx

Knight rings , helm, pants, bersek chest , boots gloves shoulders, amulet, divinity runes, karka earing, ascended back piece.
Took divinity runes +karka earing for 85 too all stats , and 30 points on defene , with an total 385 healing power, since from 379 HP , pasive from healing singet change, not too much but had to test it ^^. is arround 350 hp /sec with adrenal heal

haviz.1340:

Rayya.2591:

an pug warrior with rifle , with proper traits will outdamage any other class sir on single target. my volley hit for 7000 damage on bosses in dungeons , while my Hb from greatsword hit 11000 and is considered top damage skill. that is without any rifle specific build.
an pug guardian with scepter / focus is the best tank , for your information
or what you espect ? greatsword tank guardian ? hammer vs bosses , sir please ….
he will imobilize single target , aoe it while he can dodge or move away and buff all party memebers with regeneration.
Fact is that guardians , elementarists and warriors are most efficient classes in dungeons. That doesen’t mean you will not find good thieves, but only on high lvl fractals.
excuse me cause i don’t share your oppinion but i , as rest of 98 % of population prefer an pug guardian /warrior in exchange of an pug thief

7k volley and 11k hb aren’t even high. My unload and pistol whip do about 8k dmg and that’s without any bonus from deadly arts. Your 100b should do about 20k+ damage. And rifle is bad with greatsword, it’s autoattack is condition based so you’re forced to use only volley and kill shot to do any kind of damage. Better take axe/mace.

Also, guardian with scepter/focus is the best tank? Seriously? This game needs tanks? Guardian with scepter is the waste of party slot. Last time I had “tanks” in dungeons they were doing 3 times less damage and dying with same frequency as burst specs.

1. ofc they aren’t high, i do not use an burst spec. The diference betwen warrior’s volley and thief’s unload is that warrior can go intro melle when he lost boss agro, use rush -100 b- whirlwind combo 20 k damage+ and he is again on range with 5 seconds weapon swap. If thief go in melle to do few backstabs he will have 10 seconds reuse on weapon swap and he will be out of initiative when he retreat
2. yes i do consider guardian tank. first hit he take -blocked by aegis – aegis give retailation and heal on removal. Next 3 hits are blocked by focus. at 50% guardian recive another free aegis +heal on removal + retailation. Tank in Gw2 is not like in other games where you could absorb tones of damage, Smite from scepter do fair damage, is not an channeling spell and will continue damage on targeted area even if you use other attacks or dodge

Oreoginal.1580:

@Rayya.2591
How do you have 83% Critical Damage?

I do have a Longbow and a Rifle in my bag for certain situations! I just like using melee so much and being tanky at the same time!

@AlBundy.7851
I changed my shield’s sigil to Superior Sigil of Impact (10% damage to stunned or knocked downed foes)! I’m gonna’ be using that until I can afford the Superior Sigil of Battle.

diferent traits maybe , you got 200 more p attack so maybe you got more points in strenght and me on discipline

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

you might be right, i always keep the agro in my party,

You also don’t understand that GW2’s aggro is not based solely on damage output.

And your simplistic test only shows that volley does more DPS than rifle auto attack, which isn’t at all surprising for a bleed-based auto attack, especially if you’re specced into volley (even with a “tanky” build).

So, here’s an excellent example of a bad warrior that gets by because warriors aren’t punished nearly as harshly for having a poor player.

i do not need insults from an so self – called pro player like you. I am the bad warrior cause i don’t wanna carry pug thieves like you in fractals, and cause i smash 2 thieves like you same time in wvw. Now please go drag own conclusions bassed on facts.
It is like 7-th time i proved you , that you are wrong and only spam on forums. Come with facts please.

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

. my volley hit for 7000 damage on bosses in dungeons , while my Hb from greatsword hit 11000 and is considered top damage skill. that is without any rifle specific build.

This is the same flawed logic that makes people think Unload is a good DPS skill. HB and Volley have long channels, they’re not particularly good DPS. Warriors can do good DPS, but Volley/HB signet warriors are much worse than they think they are.

Good example of why the community thinks they need warriors and guardians though, most people have no idea what they’re doing aside from looking at big numbers.

you might be right, i always keep the agro in my party, but in your opinion my damage is lower compared with others.
at the inquest fractals i usualy take 2 golems solo before rest of party take the other 3. Ofc you know better. volley got an 2,1/2 seconds channel , auto attack 3/4 seconds.
for you i made an test . same mob in sPvP -chieftan Utahein -you can make it aswell
test was made with same build – tanky build
rifle only 1’st skill 34 seconds
rifle 1’st skill and volley 21 seconds

Ensign.2189:

You’re better off avoiding those groups demanding a pug guardian or warrior in 20+; the vast majority of pug guardians and warriors I’ve gotten in that range have sat back with a rifle / longbow / scepter the entire run and were substantially worse than a necro/mes/ele I could have gotten.

None of that says you should take a P/P thief though. Even if they’re an excellent player, I’d rather put that player on any other class in the game, as they’d be more effective (with the possible exception of scepter guardian in a damage role).

an pug warrior with rifle , with proper traits will outdamage any other class sir on single target. my volley hit for 7000 damage on bosses in dungeons , while my Hb from greatsword hit 11000 and is considered top damage skill. that is without any rifle specific build.
an pug guardian with scepter / focus is the best tank , for your information
or what you espect ? greatsword tank guardian ? hammer vs bosses , sir please ….
he will imobilize single target , aoe it while he can dodge or move away and buff all party memebers with regeneration.
Fact is that guardians , elementarists and warriors are most efficient classes in dungeons. That doesen’t mean you will not find good thieves, but only on high lvl fractals.
excuse me cause i don’t share your oppinion but i , as rest of 98 % of population prefer an pug guardian /warrior in exchange of an pug thief

here is mine
not really an sniper look

i got similar stats with greatsword as you and is kinda tanky for wvw.
I don’t use condition removal at all , and i regen 350-360 hp /sec
3050 attack
36 % critical chance
83 % critical power
2914 armor
21592 hp /385 healing power
but as secondary weapon i prefer riffle. it gives me great advantage vs elementarists /1 knockback vs thieves /warriors /guardians followed by an 5k damage volley looks better

in WvW .bunker guardian
if those 2 ppls sincronize they can take groups of 4-5 easy
How it works… guardian initiate , he can even use the bubble for 6 second and thief start to kill , after they finish 1 -2 thief get away and guadian use mercifull intervention to teleport out of combat
or bunker elementarist , same strategy , better survaivability and more heals for thief.

Rainu.6871:

Tulisin.6945:

Rainu.6871:

BS build, is good in open world pve and while leveling but is horrible in dungeons. .

It really isn’t. Effectively used BS build works better in dungeons than it does in open world PvE or while leveling. The burst single-target damage lends itself better to dungeon combat than elsewhere. Ineffectively used BS build is terrible everywhere, you can’t get away with it in dungeons. It isn’t the mechanics in this case, it is the player.

I admit to simplifying a bit, as I stated earlier a BS build can work but it puts a very high demand on the skill of the player and quite frankly I have very seldom seen people do that. A well played BS build can speed up the run but they don’t have to get downed often for the opposite to be true. While the time lost is the same for any class, I would say that beside dps d/d eles, BS thieves are the ones most often downed. There are situations where burst damage is very good but on the whole I usually much prefer sustained damage since so many bosses have mechanics (knock downs, evades/temporary immunity, etc) that can negate a burst.

you can go BS build very efficient with 30 points in shadow arts 30 in critical strikes and 10 in deadly arts. you lose 12% damage 5% from dagger mastery and 6-7% from 200 power
every C&d will remove 1 condition and will regen 350 hp /sec stelthed + 1 free aoe blind. But ofc no thieves i meet in fractals yet used that, even if 1 blind at 4 seconds improve party survaivability a lot.

i started fractals 2 days ago and , since today i also refuse thieves in my party
Reason : i had 5 thieves in party untill now in fractal
none droped shadow refuge on downed ally’s
no thief used blinding powder to drop agro from downed players
when i asked for nedlle trap at dredge last boss , most responses i got was : lool
no thief used dagger storm or cluster vs mob trains.
So why should i pick an thief for fractals party.
thieves i meet by now- fragile, singets, non eficient burst, get downed before other party memeber

runeblade.7514:

Rayya.2591:

1. you cannot ask for 10 -20 seconds protection and berseker stance when you use an elite skill with 48 seconds reuse at singet of rage.
2. no. some psihical utility’s are used for escape some for attack. I used many times bola when i wass 15% hp in wvwvw and runned intro other side.
Many warriors pick psihical utility to use bola on champions in pve.
i use stomp to get away from agro not to get near enemy

1. I ask for warriors to be able to survive a AoE zerg longer so I see more of warriors clashing swords against each other rather than arrows, laser beams and meteor storms crushing all melees that dare get close. If you got something better, share it.

2. To me, the current Physical training trait is worth only a master tier. If it is going to be a Grandmaster trait, it better does something special.

warriors are the kings on this situations
check this video , but there are more warrior zergs video’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0C7XdnY73A

runeblade.7514:

This is mainly for WvW, and maybe for sPvP too. But, I really want warriors to zerg with melee weapons be viable.

Berserker Might- Changed into, Go into Berserker’s Stance and gain protection for 10-20 seconds when you use an Elite skill.

This allow warriors in zergs survive more in AoE heavy area while having high damage.

Physical Training- changed into Physical utility skills recharge 20% faster and after you use a physical skill you charge towards your foe afterwards.

This way, all Physical warrior can be a effective roamer warrior.

Thoughts and comments?

1. you cannot ask for 10 -20 seconds protection and berseker stance when you use an elite skill with 48 seconds reuse at singet of rage.
2. no. some psihical utility’s are used for escape some for attack. I used many times bola when i wass 15% hp in wvwvw and runned intro other side.
Many warriors pick psihical utility to use bola on champions in pve.
i use stomp to get away from agro not to get near enemy

genowefapigwa.5769:

Asum.4960:

Just today in the reset opening night we killed a 80 man Zerg with around 10 people.

LoL. It;s very hard to find good players in T1
one big zerg fest n/c

yes , usualy good players go in tier 8-9 and PvE camps,

OP , you know that what you ask , is actualy to punish the winning side, not rewarding it
I mean why should i have 12 hours queue on wvw just cause your server don’t wanna play wvw?

Thief do his combo , spend his initiative, you are above 30% hp , thief stealth and go away
counter that

warrior got few toold vs D/D elementarist
they are afraid of imobilize
they are strong on melle (short range) so rifle is very good vs them
they drain you overtime cause they got better healing
So if you want to build specific vs elementarists i suggest:
20 points on arms – Deep Cuts and Crack Shot
20 points on defence embrace the pain and last stand
10 points Tactics – Leg specialist – this will be your harass vs them
20 points on defence – warrior spirit and mobile strikes
Utility’s – healing singet / trow bolas / bull charge and balanced stance – singet of rage
Weapons – riffle // sword + warhorn
Pro’s – you will regen 350 + hp / second
You will have imobilize :
bolas 4 seconds every 20 seconds
Aimed shot – 1 second – every 8 seconds
hamstring – 1 second every 15 seconds
+ sword burst skill
bleeding from every autoattack with riffle or sword
1 gap closer from sword / cure chilled imobilize with warhorn,
break imobilize with sword leap

last tier eu : whitesite ridge
vabbi and fissure of Woe never pass 100 points togh
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups

DivineBeing.2086:

Spartyr.6795:

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

Lol, funny how you’re ignoring all the responses to your video.

And let me state some obvious problems with that video. The video is EDITED. He isn’t going to show video of him dying in 2v1 or 1v1 situations. he is only showing him vs X idiots. Did you notice that every person would stand in his big giant red churning earth (our deadliest attack)? Did you also notice how NOBODY used not even 1 single CC!?

That video proves nothing at all. I can put a couple of people who barely can work a fuel pump, on level 5 characters and destroy them with my d/d ele. Does that really prove anything?

The fact is, I run a 20k health bunker ele and still get bursted down by the occassional thief. Does that mean I cannot kill a thief? Not at all. I killed two last night with a buddy of mine at the same time.

But when majority of players can roll X class and dominate the field with little to no effort than something is wrong.

And before you say, “your glass cannon or l2p vs thiefs”. I am a BUNKER built d/d elementalist with 20k health. The ONLY thing I do on GW2 is WvW, majority of the time I am rolling solo taking camps. I have even taken towers by myself! And my d/d Elementalist is the ONLY class I have and play. So its safe to assume I know how to play my class well, and how to counter other classes.

I honestly don’t care that thiefs can burst so hard but their ability to burst and miss you than go perma stealth, come back and retry is an issue. Even if you knock them down, they teleport a few feet away to get back on their feet, keep their distance, and stealth to regain CD’s.

What needs to be done is if the thief has a condition on them than show a visual representation of it. So if they have bleed stacks= blood gushing out, etc etc. This visual should be seen while they are stealthed. This will give thiefs their precious ability to drop players in less than a second but give others a higher chance to kill that stealthed thief.

with 10 points on shadow arts they will remove an condition when they enter stealth and ever 3 seconds another 1
maybe to show numbers on screen when you attack them even if they are stealthed would be an better solution

Art.9820:

I play thief and I usually know how to counter one when I’m rolling another class, I really suggest to those having trouble dealing with thief start one and understand it better, you will see how to beat stealth, atleast that’s what I did when I couldn’t beat d/d eles, now I know which skills are important for them, you can find out how stealth actually works, btw never AoE when u have a thief around that’s just stupid, try to immobilize or knockdown, even if he goes on stealth you know he/she stills there, another good way to find out if you are hitting it is to pay close attention to any chain skill you have, usually #1 skill works this way, if you’re actually triggering every sub-skill (I don’t know how to call it) well you’re hitting something then :P

oh and for “perma stealth” thieves just don’t let them touch, save your evades when you’re actually seeing them, you will have a lot fun watching now they are trying to hit you with CnD XD

and what if they C&d on mobs arround you and safe backstabs for you ?
And how you counter an thief who stealth and leave the combat? , cause this happen on 50% of my fights vs thieves they fail initial combo, they start to lose, they walk away then come back 40 sec latter

Spartyr.6795:

You claimed in your earlier post that your “skill” went up when playing thief because you could 1 v 5 which you couldn’t do on your Warrior or Guardian. I just showed you an Ele that could 1 v 5, and survive so does that make them overpowered too?

he was in 2 vs 5, since he had an big bad thief that you missed . Maybe because he was stealthed?
He runned betwen 5 enemy’s with invulnerability and teleport , without making any damage. While he was on back chased by 2 enemy’s , thief from his party was holding 4 enemy’s. Check what i had writed : i can go vs an party, troll them to death and kill them by turn. He did that ? He wasn’t even alone

Spartyr.6795:

Rayya.2591:

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

Maybe you haven’t tried Elementalist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfq5nsj4lfs

bunker ele, can engage and disengage fast. check 4.05 – 4.09 – he drop the thief to 35% hp then another thief do the finish blow
2 vs 1 situations.
nothing special , can be followed , unlike thief who stealth and run in other direction. he hit for 1000 damage when thief hit 11.000

wvw related
you miss condition removal / you miss any form of stability/ invulnerability
200 armor when knocked back won’t help you a lot and 33% chance to cause vulnerability on critical at 50% critical chance is 1 out of 6 hits for 1% extra damage

Nidome.1365:

Fully upgrading Stonemist costs 370 Silver, a Keep 277.5 Silver, a Tower 92.5 Silver and a camp 45 Silver. OK, these are costs for upgrading everything and as things change hands these locations get upgraded to varying levels from nothing to full, and that is without any armour repairs.
For those of you who claiming to make a profit in WvW are you making a fair contribution to these costs? Odds are that for the majority the answer is no – upgrading structures is somebody else’s job, even though they’ll complain quickly enough if the upgrades aren’t present.
In the past 4 weeks I have made a loss of between 10 and 15 gold a week in WvW because others are unwilling to pull their financial weight on upgrades.
So just how long would it take to kill enough Dolyaks to fortify a keep?
(37.5 silver to reinforce the walls, 75 silver for the doors and another 150 silver to finally fortify)

no , i do not
and why would you upgrade supply camps ? , except the caravan guard./double delivery , if the camp is protected by players , constant not npc’s

Gab Superstar.4059:

Why do people think they should be able to 1v1 a thief?

I play a GC thief and I can’t do kitten when I’m in a ZvZ situation unless I find some poor dude who got lost from his allies. Do you see me complain about this? No.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses, and that is how it should be. Look at WoW. They gradually changed the classes to the point where every one of them was pretty much equal, and it was terrible. From the start all of the classes had really unique and interesting mechanics, they had signature abilities that you had to take in mind when fighting them and stuff like that. They no longer do, and the PvP has suffered a lot for it.

You guys complaining about being ganked 1v1 by a thief might not realize it, but what you seem to want for the game, a situation where every class is equal, will actually ruin the game, not help it.

i saw on thief forum, an boy who made arround 150 kills in 7 min video with shortbow, ZvZ
He wass GC thief, with 11 k hp and 7k aoe clusters

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

tier 1
ranger underwater downed + pet regen
mesmer underwater downed
tier 2
the rest

i spend 6 siver /30 minutes in wvw, for food, i do 1 full repair /day or 2
so i actualy spend over 1 gold /day in wvw and still get profit over there.
Ofc if i want big money i go in fractals or cursed shore , but i noticed i can make 2-3 gold profit in wvw/day

I use GS + rifle and i am very happy with my wvw warrior
as for utility’s i use 2 psihicals and 1 stance
i can handle most of 1 vs 1 situations, and i can deal nice damage in groups

mobile Hb would be overpowered
that’s the ideea a-net want to implement with all the classes
reward you for good skill timing – if you make mobile HB everybody can land it

Tulisin.6945:

Rayya.2591:

But now enlight me how you kill an thief who use shadow refuge at 50% hp, and leave battle.

Seriously? Use literally any attack and kill them. Someone who generally has 7,000~ HP (at 50 %) and very little toughness just confined themselves to a small circle for at least 4 seconds. Even bunkers can down that solo. If there’s more than one person trying to kill the thief they should only last a couple seconds.

Shadow Refuge at 50 % in an attempt to escape is an absolutely horrible example of effectively using stealth. A thief’s ability to disengage and reset combat comes almost entirely from mobility, not stealth. Shadow Refuge trades in nearly all of your mobility for stealth, which is a losing proposition against anyone not entirely terrible at PvP.

good luck on that. i just turn arround in refuge and you will have no clue in wich conner of it i am in. Drop 7000 hp in 4seconds you need at least 4 lucky blind hits. Not to mention that i got 65% of hp downed (stealthed for 12 sec more) and i will rally unless you continue hit me, but you will have no clue if i am downed there or i left for a cigareth
1 vs 1 Reasons to use refuge at 50% hp
guardian just used buble
warrior just used endurance pain
thief just used thief guide
eng just used the ultimate kit (don’t know the name)
i am out of initiative vs that bunker elementarist , my endurance is low and i want to cure the chill

usefull site thx

hex.3218:

How to kill a thief:

1. Knockdown, Stun, daze, root, bleed, confuse, freeze, fire, poison, slow, reflect.

If said thief goes all stealthy drop AoEs and wait.

Keep your camera zoomed out.

You can move too.

EVADE.

Oh my it is so easy to kill a thief or at least ruin their day.

EDIT: Wait did I just read someone posted "i kill bads in 1.5 s’???? Wow. Bet that line gets the ladies!

and if the thief is not afk , you will mostly land knockback and root if they are aoe.
with only 10 points in shadow arts , you will cure 1 condition every 3 seconds , shadow refuge last 3 + 9 seconds or 4 + 12
As an thief i had troubles with :
gs warriors who spammed 1 non stop , needed to bait them but most of the times i wonned , even if i had to keep them 5 min on combat while i regened 350 hp/sec stealthed.
guardians with high healling, couldn’t drop them solo
elementarists D/D -bunker spec, needed to catch them off guard with at least 2-3 lucky crits, some 1 vs 1 went up to 20 minutes
Anything else was just walking sheep on map