Guild Wars 2

So.. I’m usually not a toxic player, but this had me fuming. I was just in a match, solo q, with wolf ranked sapphire players in my team. 3 of them were in a party apparently.

Told them not to go for beast at the start, but they insisted to go for beast, claiming that the tempest and DH could bunker mid, while our DH takes home and reaper takes beast.

Needless to say, the one at home either didn’t look for crossovers, or he didn’t call them. So by the time we knew they were there, they were swarming home and beast on the minimap and hence I tried to reinforce home asap. Tempest and DH then followed me and left mid entirely without capping it. So now the opponents had a 2 cap and we had none.

Fast forward, we got rolled, I called them out, and here are the results. Enjoy.

TL;DR Why is the matchmaking and division system so flawed, this can happen? They were obviously players way below my skill level and yet they were apparently sapphire t3 and ruby (no idea if you can drop from ruby to sapphire but eh)?!?

http://imgur.com/a/8PF25

Dirame.8521:

Soryuju.8164:

If you’re not willing to show proof for the “sheep” that you’re looking down on.

Go watch my videos then or watch me when I stream. And I hate to look down on people, which is why I said we rather than you because I know that I am also forced to play the Meta specs because no one wants to believe in trying to counter.

You do realise you are not making sense right?

→ makes claim that non-elite specs can counter meta
→ doesnt prove it
→ says he can’t prove it because he’s ‘forced’ to play meta specs because no one wants to believe
→ logic???

For one, d/d ele gets destroyed in this meta. So does classic bunker guard. period

Profession swapping though..

Sorry m8, but I don’t need to look at your build to tell you it doesn’t work. Every warrior just gets farmed to oblivion in higher tier matches. I haven’t lost a single match with an enemy warrior so far.

You should probably take a break after 3 losses.

Aeroxe.8140:

I’m positive arenanet is aware of the current meta in guild wars 2 competitive pvp, but I just want to ensure that the core issues in the current meta are well understood by both the developers and community. I also want to make clear that some issues that may be perceived by the community are actually not issues at all in competitive play. From my understanding, some of the balance in the game is driven not by the people in proleague but also by some forum input.

I am a participant in the ESL proleague team for NA called Zero Counterplay, and I don’t think there is a better name for the current meta as of now. ESL proleague tomorrow is going to be quite….a shock… from what I’ve seen in scrimmages for the past week.

Anyways, I’ll state some of the goingon’s in proleague scrimmages, issues in balance, and some (what I think to be) false beliefs in point form for conciseness. I’ll also try to cut it short, and not be stating too many specifics so that I am respectful of my fellow proleague teams.

1) Dragonhunter is fine.
If anything, it’s actually a bit weak at the moment, and I don’t think many of the teams currently in NA are running it (I believe one team is?). I don’t agree entirely with some of the class design choices, but yeah you won’t see much of this in proleague. It’s just not good enough.

2) Thief and warrior are dead…mostly.
It saddens me, but the stuff out there in the current meta is really just too strong. Many thieves in NA have switched over I think in this past week to one of the stronger classes.

3) League system does need some finetuning.
I don’t think I have to go over this.

4) Bunker mesmer and condition revenant are beyond ridiculous, and teams having been testing their potency by running x2, x3, and even x4.
-These builds are really really really strong and extremely forgiving. Many teamfights are just a mess with 1v1s and 2v2s especially being more dictated by passive procs and luck. The skill ceiling has fallen drastically.

5) Elementalist and druid are being phased out
-Bunker mesmer is claiming their spots.. Elementalists and druids are still viable somewhat, but some teams have dropped the classes entirely.

6) Marauder scrapper is coming back, but not entirely. Like reaper now, it is being tested in comparison to bunker mes and condi rev.

7) The power creep is very, very real.
-Balance patches in the future should aim not to buff underpowered specs, but to tune what is too strong at the present time.

I think that covers most of the things I wanted to say, but yeah things aren’t looking too bright from the competitive side. I’ll try to add things that come to mind. Proleague is still going to be a blast to watch though, so check it out tomorrow!

Quoted for truth.

Lol @ all you people. I have high mmr, in sapphire, solo q often and out of all my matches, I have had only 1 person tanking mmr and 1 person afking after losing first team fight. That’s after 135 games.

Maybe you’re the toxic one? If you were actually nicer to your team mates right from the start.. Pft.

Burtnik.5218:

Hmm..yesterday i was at emerald t5, today i am at sapphire t4.. From what i noticed sapphire matches are much easier cause they are full of noobs. Grab 2 friends and rekt them all.

I had the exact opposite experience. When I got to sapphire, solo queueing became easier than emerald. It might just be a coincidence though.

Alright, I believe it is widely known that if you queue as a team of 5, your collective mmr will be boosted temporarily higher while queueing (searching for matches) since you are a premade. Is there an actual number/percentage out there though?

How much is it boosted by? What happens if you have 4 instead of 5? Or 3? 2? Or is it only boosted when you have like, say, 3 or more queueing together?

Foefire and forest are top picks for sure. I think the reason why forest may be favored is because it is easier to rotate around bunkers on that map.

Profession mmr is being tracked but not active atm.

Disappointing and embarassing behavior from a pro team. Hope the devs look into this.

So kittening glad there’s no minstrels now. Celestial bunkers are bad enough kitten .

Find a team of low mmr players who know what they are doing (unlikely) and preferably still in amber. Farm wins for dayz.

Or, get a team of good players who are playing alt accounts with low mmr. ??? Profit

Alternatively, you can find a team of kittenty players with low mmr, coach them in unranked and wait for next season.

Have fun guys! Remember, players with high mmr are a no-no!

Even with a relatively high winrate (60%), im still in saph t1 as well. This is after 130 games. Average out 10 mins per game and 5 mins per queue, thats at least 1950 mins. Progression is extremely slow.

Edit: started off with high mmr too. I can see how much longer it’s going to take as i progress through the leagues. Dontcha wish you lost all your ranked games before leagues.. punished for being good. Shame.

trytonianYeti.4389:

Ghedoriah.4290:

ReaperJr.5967:

Miaze.8631:

People are already legendary, if you’re good enough you will get there.

Unfortunately I do not have the time nor team to farm solo q-ers as a premade and also I’m not part of team pz and mist initiative so I can’t dodge queues or trade wins.

That was unfortunately just a fairly obvious troll. You can check how many players are in Legendary and the individual leaderboard for it in the PvP tab in-game.

This OP soloQ’s. I know because I ended up teaming w/ his ele a few times. I’d say he knows what he’s doing.

The person he responded to wrote a guide about reaching ruby etc etc. His advice was to form a 5 man Q. Little does he know that his low MMR aside from farming soloQers had everything to do with his progress – and not about “being good enough” (which to me means not-so-good)

This broken game doesn’t award being good on its own

Thank you. Unfortunately, this game, unlike other competitive games like dota 2, does not allow you to gain an advantage by being more skilled than your opponents (dominating mid and steamrolling your hero with levels and items as an example), nor does it allow you to keep your division indefinitely (like mmr, but with decay).

Simply put, while the mmr system works perfectly fine for solo q-ers in other games (if you are good enough you will be wherever you are supposed to be eventually), the same does not apply here. There is no incentive to queue solo.

That in itself is a design flaw imo.

Miaze.8631:

People are already legendary, if you’re good enough you will get there.

Unfortunately I do not have the time nor team to farm solo q-ers as a premade and also I’m not part of team pz and mist initiative so I can’t dodge queues or trade wins.

I understand the idea of seasonal rewards, but as it stands, legendary division is impossible to hit by those who are bound by real life commitmemts. Namely college and work.

Even if we were good enough to hit legendary given unlimited time, we simply dont have enough time to grind through 6 divisions in 2 months time before the season resets.

Could the devs please do something about this next season? Like either decrease the number of pips required or increase the duration of each season. Or even better, both.

Malpractice.7850:

I most certainly don’t think I am the best warrior, however, I do stand by the fact they are not useless, and fights can be won. I am not sure at top-tier, but also at top tier, we don’t see many DH nor thieves, yet people are constantly complaining about DH (Which I personally have had no problems with. The only thing i think is OP is trap size, maybe)

As said above, I will certainly take the duel, and regardless of if I lose, hopefully when I post the build, it is atleast more receptive than I’ve been treated by a few members of the community so far (One going so far to saying i’m low MMR, uplevel wvw, etc.)

Just because I’m new to a class, and trying to offer a viewpoint that isn’t doom and gloom doesn’t make me a terrible player.

Sure, other classes are better, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be an effective warrior at most MMRs

Malpractice, may I ask what are the classes your build works best against? I would like to duel you on those classes.

Vague Memory.2817:

The league has nothing to do with skill. If you have a high MMR you get pitched into teams that are likely to lose the match, giving you a losing streak. After you’ve lost enough matches and your MMR is lowered you get rewarded with a winning streak to fill out a tier. There is no point in tanking games to lower your MMR, because the MMR system does this for you.

There is no such winstreak. Once they pitch you enough losing games to hit 50% you will just get normal matches. As of now my winrate has dropped from 64% to 60%. Keep em going anet. -rolls eyes-

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Condition_Mallyx

According to pvp dev team, matchmaking is mainly based on 50% mmr and 50% league division. With everyone still mostly in amber/emerald/sapphire, league division does not really matter as sapphires will get matched with/against emeralds and emeralds will get matched with/against ambers.

So here comes the issue of mmr, since mmr was not reset at the introduction of leagues, players with high mmr are then being punished. How so? Let’s say you are in amber with high mmr, it’s likely you would climb through it quickly (even if solo q) with a high winrate, thus boosting your mmr even higher. However, once you reach emerald, it is a different story.

The system will try to match you with players above your skill level to get you to ‘lose’, so to speak, to try and reduce your winrate to an average of 50%. If you beat the odds, and win even when it does so, then you get matched against tougher opponents. With more unfair matchups. Premades against pugs, new players on your team etc. Hence the system will continue to do so until you hit 50% winrate average, during which you would go against opponents of equal caliber and be subjected to the grueling grind that is leagues.

Until then, you will keep losing matches simply because you had high mmr to start with. With no incentive to boot. You dont get to progress faster nor do you get any winstreak bonuses. It’s no wonder people are actually tanking their mmr just to climb leagues, it’s the sane way out. Unless you have a premade that is kitten good at what they are doing, able to beat all other premades, you have no chance at the leagues.

Now imagine i had low mmr to start with. I will definitely hit emerald since amber doesnt cause you to lose pips, but i will hit it with low mmr. I will then get matched against easier players, climbing the divisions much faster.

The question is then why? And is anet even considering fixing this?

Starting mid december. Intent on hitting legendary this season. Im good but you’re welcome to test me. Interested parties hmu. Glhf.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Its air overload.

Wow. The tooltip never mentioned any CC. is this legit?

Afaik yes.

Its air overload.

YuiRS.8129:

^Look at all those deer ranks being proud of themselves. I guess it’s good to be bad. Come back when you get some MMR under your belts.

^^^^^^^ every warrior in my ranked games has been farmed to oblivion and beyond, for eternity.

How do you check leaderboards?

.. giving every class so many active defenses. You know something is seriously wrong when a spec with marauders amulet has the survivability of a point holder and specs with celestial can bunk 1v2. Every fight is teeming with blocks, evades, invuln etc; it feels so disgusting.

The ‘rock paper scissors’ sytem of counters used to be so well defined and yet now it’s almost non existent. Every class has everything.

Well, except warrior and thief ofc.

I would like to ask the same question. Ive had the luck of running into a premade with 2 bunker chronos, 2 revs and 1 bunker tempest. It was on foefire too.

Needless to say, I lost, albeit narrowly, despite winning every team fight since that comp was so aids all they had to do was stall till the other bunker showed up. Perfect example of mechanically inferior players getting carried by builds. Smh.

I’m not saying they are broken, but the main reason eles run diamond skin are because of reapers. We simply do not have enough cleanses (gasp, but eles have one of the most cleanses in game!) to deal with perma chill.

If the chill werent so potent we would rather take stone heart any time.

Dueled a few viper revs with bruiser a/e/t tempest, won every time. E/w/t bunker tempest just stalemates though. Without glint heal, revs really cant do anything against air overload, esp on point.

Can we have a new elite spec called smokescale or bristleback? I rather have those over berserker any time.

If the revenant commits to the point without disengaging, he would probably lose.

Arcade.8901:

ReaperJr.5967:

Arcade.8901:

Rauderi.8706:

Short answer? Nerfs.
Old warrior design is old, and it shows through all the skills and traits. If there’s a dev that actually plays warrior with something other than Eternity, it’s nowhere near obvious.

Not sure what you leading into, but the best build for wars right now is still Shoutbow with BOW Sword and Shield. Without Eternity.

Except it isn’t..

Well, i dunno i ve played like 500 games on my war in HoT only, then i just gave up, Shoutbow still works kinda with amount of necroes nowadays, but ele and druid still better no questions here, but you at least support those who can actually kill fotms.

GS/Hammer, it’s like, after every 1on1 i won i thought, dam that guy had no clue what he was doing there.

So it’s just my personal opinion.

Ive found burst builds more useful than shoutbow in this meta. You wont survive with shoutbow regardless, even in a 1v1. So going ham and hopefully catching a player off guard means winning the team fight for your team. War only works against players way below your skill level atm though regardless of what you play since the amount of faceroll in other elite specs are so high.

dominik.9721:

poping all stances, using non instant burst that doesn’t even bring any class below 50% and running away afterwards, is the defintiotn of “being useless”.

Who said anything about warrior not being useless? That’s just the way it is. Your burst wont work against decent players but you can still catch sub par players off guard.

Loop.8106:

ReaperJr.5967:

I like how the majority of people demanding for nerfs on diamond skin dont even know how ele works. So many ignorant statements here.

My god your stupidity amazes me.
Im gonna try to get through to you by writing the important words in caps.
We do NOT demand a NERF. We would LIKE to see a REWORK of the trait so that it CAN BE USED in more SITUATIONS. As it stands now, it’s INSTAWIN vs condi and basicly INSTALOSE vs power cause you’re giving up a grandmaster for nothing. Having it like -40% CONDITION DURATION at ---> ALL TIMES <—- would NOT be a NERF but a BUFF aswell as offer some much needed COUNTERPLAY.

I hope that clarifies this thread for you. But what do I know….

If you stopped being a self-conscious prick maybe you would realise I wasn’t talking about you. But hey, what do I know, your guilt at work?

Also, if you bothered to read through the thread you posted, you would realise that i posted that i would rather have permanent condi duration reduction over the current ds anytime. Not that that offers more counterplay than current ds (watchu gonna do, stack condi duration? Lmfao) but hey it would be a better trait.

I wonder who’s the stupid one really?

PowerBottom.5796:

ReaperJr.5967:

PowerBottom.5796:

I’ve played a D/D Tempest quite often, the way the build works is it’s very similar to the role of a D/D-Ele before HoT, but better in teamfights. It is not as good in 1v1’s though as the old D/D-Ele, mainly because there are much stronger 1v1-builds atm., but it can hold it’s own in many MU’s (some are slightly Ele favoured, some are slightly in favour of the enemy, but most are winnable or you can at least hold the point for some time). Now I didn’t go with Diamond Skin, cuz Stoneheart is too important and condi-removal is quite good with the build (so Stoneskin would literally only really come into play in a 1v1 vs condi-necro’s – it’s up to you if you value winning that MU over being better in teamfights or VS Rev’s for example)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYn0XCdOg9XCWYCcYilNAzdv+XPsErgUwIY4BEAugA-TJRHwABeAAAOBAk2f4YZAA

MU’s:

Vs Marauder Rev: Be sure to use schocking aura well (after he has used Sword 3 for example) and switch to earth when he uses Sword 3. Pressure well with Fire breath and use overloads in a way he won’t be able to innterupt them with Staff 5 or chaotic release. Many Rev’s nowadays don’t run many Stunbreakers (1 on each stance only), so if the stability fades out, you can try and go for some burst-combos with CC. During Melee-Pressure, you can kite pretty well while overloading Air or Water for example: You can avoid the melee DMG while also dealing DMg or healing.

VS Necro: Don’t think you will win the 1v1 and hold the point, if you wanna win, you’ll likely loose the point, cuz you can’t be near the necro when he’s in reaper-form. Just run around the edges if possible and overload sth. It’s really hard to pressure the nec since you are melee only, so you have to just bomb him down when he’s out of reaper shroud and safe the overloads to kite when he’s melee.

VS Engi: Watch out for slick shoes and if possible, stay in earth to go for the overload if you feel he’s gonna use it (most Engis use it as an opener, so just open in earth-form). Be sure to dodge hammer 5 and don’t feel the need to stay in the fields to keep the point at all cost. Like with the other MU’s, use the Air or Water overload to do sth. useful while you are staying at range/kiting.

VS other Ele’s: You’ll have more DMG than them, but they’ll have more sustain, it’ll likely end up a draw. Most important thing is to cycle through your overloads correctly and use schocking aura in the right way: If he’s trying to overload Air, use schocking aura, if he has schocking aura, use earth or water overload or heal yourself. So when he’s in air, switch to earth, when he’s in earth, don’t switch into air. This interrupt VS stability “minigame” gets more complicated if he uses Staility on Overloads, but then he’ll lack tons of healing, which means you can win the MU easier with pressure. Against S/F, you might consider not overloading at all unless you are very sure all of his many ways of interrupting cannot be used. it’s really hard, but it can be possible with keeping CD’s in mind and properly LoS’ing.

VS Druid: Well, you aren’t gonna win this one, but you can try not to loose it (which is hard cuz druid has many ways of forcing you off the point). Best advice I can give is to position yourself in a way that the pet isn’t between you and the druid when he uses staff 1 and to pull the pet away from the druid when he has the circling orb around it. Also, I often just purely pressure the pet, since I won’t be able to kill the druid anyways, so at least I can mitigate the amount of DMG I receive, force him to switch pets and maybe kill the pets so when support arrives, it’ll be easier to kill the druid.

Vs Mallix Viper Rev: Yeah, ain’t gonna happen, you’ll loose. :P

Question, why do you run 1 3 1 in water instead of 1 2 1? How do you cope with cc spam? What about DH and Chrono?

I go 1/2/1 when I use a weapon set with non-defensive water spells, like Focus, but on Dagger offhand, I have 1 heal with condi-remove and 1 aura, which will also remove a condi and give me prot, reg and vigor. reducing the CD of those by 33% is alone worth more than just one small AoE condi-remove roughly every 10 seconds (in relity, you’ll maybe make use of it every 15 seconds or so.) Also, the ice aura is insta-cast, which means it’ll actually help against CC (prot etc. against spiked dmg), while I don’t know how exactly how cleansing wave will help against anything other than fear (which isn’t such a big thing anymore, since shoutwars aren’t played, and smart necro’s will much rather keep the perma-stability than use it for the fear).

DH: Really annoying to fight against, since the CC will likely be hard to deal with. Best tip is to engage them without them having already pre-trapped the spot. Another tip is to trigger the traps and insta port out of them, cuz you won’t get out any other way except with earth overload, which is a decent option as well. Evade the AoE of Bow5 so you’re not getting stuck in the little areas, cuz he’ll just go at a distance and spam arrows on you. You’ll have to do a lot of LoS’ing though, which makes it harder to fight them on certain nodes. If you can LoS, again use the time to overload air or water, you can even overload fire for the mightstacks and go back to the middle of the point when the overloads end, so he’ll have to deal with the fire-tornado (not always possible, but a good option when he for example is out of bow and has already use his traps.
Play really defensive in general, since your sustain and dmg will win in the end, but the DH has a lot of potential to kill you quickly.

Chrono Marauder: Pressure pressure pressure. Don’t let him LoS you, avoid Sword2 burst-spikes (either look at the icon that appears of the little shoe or listen for the very easily distinguishable sound-effect. If you are too late to evade, at least be rdy to switch into earth for the stoneheart. Use the time where he is using the shield block to overload. Avoid GS-2 and 5 especially and safe your teleport to get on top of him when he tries to LoS you. If he uses Elite-Well, always have teleport or earth-overload rdy to escape it if possible.

Chrono Wellmancer: Don’t stand in the wells or Staff 5, safe your teleport for the Elite-Well and again use the time he’s using the block on his shield to do sth. useful. Try and pressure him off the point, so he’ll has to use his wells off-point (which will mean he’ll either be off-point longer, or he won’t use his wells in the best way possible). You can do this for example with a good Air5 knockback and burst (he’ll have to often use the stunbreak/distortion well), good pressuring or on overload placed on point (again, you can LoS to overload and go on the point just for the lingering aftereffect of the overload)

*edit: Sth to add to the well’s: There is a well you can and actually should often stand inside, which is the heal well: If you can pressure the Mesmer out of this well before it ends, you will have a huge advantage. So safe your Air5 or at least pressure him heavily with a fire burst-combo when he uses the Heal-Well.

Interesting. I just find it hard to envision how you would survive in a team fight without stability or invulnerability. Or even 1v1s tbh. Mind adding me up in game for a few 1v1s and a few rounds of pvp maybe? Would like to see how you play your build.

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Necro has usually countered ele. With last meta, cele necro didnt countered cele ele due to the fact that cele ele was broken, but necro had the tools to counter him. In fact, it was one of the few builds that could engage a 1v1 against an ele and potentially win

I was speaking about post nerf and pre-hot. Eles were fine then. In all my games as an ele, and all the duels i have fought, i haven’t met a single necro who stood a chance against meta d/d ele with the metabattle cele signet build.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me if you play a necro? Otherwise, im surprised at how you arrived at that conclusion.

Im not sure what I have to explain. Eles wrecked necros pre-HoT cause they were broken, but necros had a bunch of utilites that countered the ele build, which makes them better for a 1v1 that, lets say, a thief. Also, and thats not only my own experience but also top pvp streamers talking about it, cele necro could win cele ele if they played smartly

Yes, but like i said, they had to trait and build for it. Which would also mean they would counter ele but be vulnerable to everything else. The meta cele build then did not counter ele, and it’s not because eles were broken, but because it was a more well rounded build.

Which ‘top streamers’ were you referring to?

If I remember correctly, Phanta, Helseth and Denshee talked about this, and yes, eles were broken :/

Unlikely they were referring to the meta build then. And eles were broken pre-fire nerf but were fine post-fire nerf. To quote you, a ‘top streamer’ said so.

They were talking about meta builds, and there weretop streamers that though cele ele was still really strong post-nerf

Anyway, thats not OP related

Strong =/= op or broken. Strong = fine. There’s definitely going to be builds classified as strong, but not over the top. Meta ele was one of them.

Well, top streamers can say what they want but they could be wrong. Meta cele necro having an advantage over meta cele ele is definitely an unfounded belief. Im willing to prove so if needed.

As said, this isnt post related, and Im really not going to discuss with you, so if you dont want to believe that cele necro was the only meta build that could stand a chance 1v1 a cele ele, nothing I can do about

Also, note my strong remark

It is post related in the sense that someone claimed that necro has always been able to counter ele so there’s no reason why they shouldn’t now. Not that that’s a valid argument but it is post related nonetheless.

Telling me to believe that is like telling me to believe the world is flat because ‘so and so said so’. All the evidence stacks up against it. Would you believe it? I hope not.

Also, not to be mean but your personal impression of a class does not determine if it is broken or not. Unless, of course, you are able to support it with irrefutable logical reasons.

I’ve not stated that necros must be ele counters, someone said smth about counters and I’ve said that necro usually countered ele until now. Necros countered eles when power necro cause they could pressure the ele and the ele had no active defenses, so pressing DS1 wrecked them.

During cele meta, necros could sustain as much as eles and boon corrupt/dmg pressure them with max might stacks, and corrupt ele’s might, so basically they had the tools to beat an ele (boon corrupt and sustained dmg). But cause eles were broken these “counter” tools were not enough. Im supposed to demostrate that eles were broken? I’ve to post links about eles holding a 2-3v1 and winning every 1v1? Or top streamers just complaining about how broken it was, even post-nerf? TBH I didnt though I had to demonstarte that cele eles were broken last meta .-.

And, as said, nothing about this is OP related (unless you distort someone other words :p), so Im not going to discuss more with you

EDIT: (Not gonna say anything about dumbfire meta :p)

Lol you’re being too self conscious here. I wasnt referring to you. And ele couldn’t 1v2/3 without dying if the opponents were as good as the ele. It’s the same reason you don’t see eles trying to 1v2/3 in competitive meta unless they were trying to stall for time.

You can show me videos demonstrating how ‘op’ ele was (although they clearly weren’t but go ahead). Post fire nerf, BA blind spam was nerfed, might on cantrip was nerfed, rof was nerfed, burn ticks from drake’s breath was also nerfed. So tell me why ele was ‘op’ again?

Arcade.8901:

Rauderi.8706:

Short answer? Nerfs.
Old warrior design is old, and it shows through all the skills and traits. If there’s a dev that actually plays warrior with something other than Eternity, it’s nowhere near obvious.

Not sure what you leading into, but the best build for wars right now is still Shoutbow with BOW Sword and Shield. Without Eternity.

Except it isn’t..

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Necro has usually countered ele. With last meta, cele necro didnt countered cele ele due to the fact that cele ele was broken, but necro had the tools to counter him. In fact, it was one of the few builds that could engage a 1v1 against an ele and potentially win

I was speaking about post nerf and pre-hot. Eles were fine then. In all my games as an ele, and all the duels i have fought, i haven’t met a single necro who stood a chance against meta d/d ele with the metabattle cele signet build.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me if you play a necro? Otherwise, im surprised at how you arrived at that conclusion.

Im not sure what I have to explain. Eles wrecked necros pre-HoT cause they were broken, but necros had a bunch of utilites that countered the ele build, which makes them better for a 1v1 that, lets say, a thief. Also, and thats not only my own experience but also top pvp streamers talking about it, cele necro could win cele ele if they played smartly

Yes, but like i said, they had to trait and build for it. Which would also mean they would counter ele but be vulnerable to everything else. The meta cele build then did not counter ele, and it’s not because eles were broken, but because it was a more well rounded build.

Which ‘top streamers’ were you referring to?

If I remember correctly, Phanta, Helseth and Denshee talked about this, and yes, eles were broken :/

Unlikely they were referring to the meta build then. And eles were broken pre-fire nerf but were fine post-fire nerf. To quote you, a ‘top streamer’ said so.

They were talking about meta builds, and there weretop streamers that though cele ele was still really strong post-nerf

Anyway, thats not OP related

Strong =/= op or broken. Strong = fine. There’s definitely going to be builds classified as strong, but not over the top. Meta ele was one of them.

Well, top streamers can say what they want but they could be wrong. Meta cele necro having an advantage over meta cele ele is definitely an unfounded belief. Im willing to prove so if needed.

As said, this isnt post related, and Im really not going to discuss with you, so if you dont want to believe that cele necro was the only meta build that could stand a chance 1v1 a cele ele, nothing I can do about

Also, note my strong remark

It is post related in the sense that someone claimed that necro has always been able to counter ele so there’s no reason why they shouldn’t now. Not that that’s a valid argument but it is post related nonetheless.

Telling me to believe that is like telling me to believe the world is flat because ‘so and so said so’. All the evidence stacks up against it. Would you believe it? I hope not.

Also, not to be mean but your personal impression of a class does not determine if it is broken or not. Unless, of course, you are able to support it with irrefutable logical reasons.

kdaddy.5431:

Anet you dirty dawg

I have to look like a troll by now on this thread but i finally read the fine print. I just did a match and facet of light converts ALL INCOMING DAMAGE and defiant stance heals incoming strikes.

So wait wait wait let me get this straight, the rev dragon stance is the warriors healing signet and defiant stance with a upgrade……… you know what im ok with this but can simply fix warriors defiant stance, mending and shout heal. Dont nerf the revanent just fix warriors heal skills.

Anet nicknamenick already put down how to fix 1 heal skill and a simple one to defiant stance. Come on anet lets get it together here

Aha. That’s what you get for not reading the fine print when you signed the contract! Too bad!

PowerBottom.5796:

I’ve played a D/D Tempest quite often, the way the build works is it’s very similar to the role of a D/D-Ele before HoT, but better in teamfights. It is not as good in 1v1’s though as the old D/D-Ele, mainly because there are much stronger 1v1-builds atm., but it can hold it’s own in many MU’s (some are slightly Ele favoured, some are slightly in favour of the enemy, but most are winnable or you can at least hold the point for some time). Now I didn’t go with Diamond Skin, cuz Stoneheart is too important and condi-removal is quite good with the build (so Stoneskin would literally only really come into play in a 1v1 vs condi-necro’s – it’s up to you if you value winning that MU over being better in teamfights or VS Rev’s for example)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYn0XCdOg9XCWYCcYilNAzdv+XPsErgUwIY4BEAugA-TJRHwABeAAAOBAk2f4YZAA

MU’s:

Vs Marauder Rev: Be sure to use schocking aura well (after he has used Sword 3 for example) and switch to earth when he uses Sword 3. Pressure well with Fire breath and use overloads in a way he won’t be able to innterupt them with Staff 5 or chaotic release. Many Rev’s nowadays don’t run many Stunbreakers (1 on each stance only), so if the stability fades out, you can try and go for some burst-combos with CC. During Melee-Pressure, you can kite pretty well while overloading Air or Water for example: You can avoid the melee DMG while also dealing DMg or healing.

VS Necro: Don’t think you will win the 1v1 and hold the point, if you wanna win, you’ll likely loose the point, cuz you can’t be near the necro when he’s in reaper-form. Just run around the edges if possible and overload sth. It’s really hard to pressure the nec since you are melee only, so you have to just bomb him down when he’s out of reaper shroud and safe the overloads to kite when he’s melee.

VS Engi: Watch out for slick shoes and if possible, stay in earth to go for the overload if you feel he’s gonna use it (most Engis use it as an opener, so just open in earth-form). Be sure to dodge hammer 5 and don’t feel the need to stay in the fields to keep the point at all cost. Like with the other MU’s, use the Air or Water overload to do sth. useful while you are staying at range/kiting.

VS other Ele’s: You’ll have more DMG than them, but they’ll have more sustain, it’ll likely end up a draw. Most important thing is to cycle through your overloads correctly and use schocking aura in the right way: If he’s trying to overload Air, use schocking aura, if he has schocking aura, use earth or water overload or heal yourself. So when he’s in air, switch to earth, when he’s in earth, don’t switch into air. This interrupt VS stability “minigame” gets more complicated if he uses Staility on Overloads, but then he’ll lack tons of healing, which means you can win the MU easier with pressure. Against S/F, you might consider not overloading at all unless you are very sure all of his many ways of interrupting cannot be used. it’s really hard, but it can be possible with keeping CD’s in mind and properly LoS’ing.

VS Druid: Well, you aren’t gonna win this one, but you can try not to loose it (which is hard cuz druid has many ways of forcing you off the point). Best advice I can give is to position yourself in a way that the pet isn’t between you and the druid when he uses staff 1 and to pull the pet away from the druid when he has the circling orb around it. Also, I often just purely pressure the pet, since I won’t be able to kill the druid anyways, so at least I can mitigate the amount of DMG I receive, force him to switch pets and maybe kill the pets so when support arrives, it’ll be easier to kill the druid.

Vs Mallix Viper Rev: Yeah, ain’t gonna happen, you’ll loose. :P

Question, why do you run 1 3 1 in water instead of 1 2 1? How do you cope with cc spam? What about DH and Chrono?

ReaperJr.5967:

Gw2 used to be my favourite game. I used to spend thousands of hours on it, wondering how a game could be so good. I was thinking the ‘casual mmo’ idealogy was probably the reason. I could slowly spend my time enjoying this game, without fearing i would miss out on anything important if i didnt play.

Which was also why i was so hyped for the expansion. I had great hopes for hot. ‘If anet was so brilliant at creating the core game, the expansion would definitely be better.’ Was what i thought. Im a very skeptical person when it comes to buying games (college student supporting himself, not much to spare), but i instantly shelled out 100 USD after first bwe.

Then the expansion hit. Everything changed. For the worse. Even remnants of the word ‘casual’ were non-existent in hot content. Everything is a rush. Everything is gated. Everything is extremely expensive. Rewards were all over the place. Balance too. Anet tried too hard to go ‘esports’ without fixing the fundementals of spvp. Everything is just so much of a mess now it’s tiring and exhausting.

It’s no longer fun playing the game. It’s like they abandoned the whole idea of what makes gw2 fun and decided, let’s change everything, we need more sales. Devs dont communicate with their players as much as they used to. Some dont at all (hint hint a specific class). I had faith that anet would fix these issues after hot was released, but after so long in, ive given up.

Im sick and tired of this game. Done with it. Treat this as a useless rant post or whatever, i dont really care. I just think it’s sad to see a great game become so bad.

Didnt expect this post to garner that much attention, but since im already here, ill try to address the recurring questions and answers xpac supporters have for me by quoting my own post.

1. ‘If you don’t like HoT, just don’t play it.’

Except I can’t. Except I paid a USD $100 for HoT, and don’t want to waste my money. It’s like you liking BMWs, and BMW announced a new flagship car. But the catch is, you can’t test drive it. However, they promise it will be great and worth your money. They let you see the exterior design and it’s all gorgeous, so you buy it. Upon driving it, there turned out to be multiple issues with the car. It turned out to be an unpolished car. Just like HoT is an unpolished xpac. That’s the primary reason why I can’t just ‘not play HoT’.

2. ‘What exactly changed about the core game that you can’t just enjoy it instead?’

Except dungeon rewards being nerfed by 50%, resulting in nobody running them now? Except fractals being reworked so that the rewards are plain bad and there’s no reason to do high level fractals (>80/90) now? Except pvp balance being so broken you can’t play non elite specs now? And even among elite specs some are so much more broken than the others? Except wvw borderlands being empty due to another ‘rework’? Except the game becoming a much larger gold sink than before? I could go on, you know.

3. ’What’s so bad about HoT?’

Everything is gated and expensive. To get masteries you have to chain run meta events, now this is good and all but sometimes there aren’t even any commanders leading the map. Or other maps for that matter. Even if there were commanders, you would then be hit by diminishing returns. Your exp gets lesser and lesser each time you run the event. And you can’t even enjoy the events at your own pace. Need participation to make your time worthwhile. Need to rush to location to make it in time for event. Need to wait for next event or my participation in this event would be wasted.

Oh wait, i need to get here but i dont have the required masteries. Now i cant do the events, cant get the exp, no masteries for next time either. Too bad. It’s like the game is telling me to kitten myself. Nvm, ill just do the story then. Oops sorry, you need this mastery to continue the story. K ill just farm events for the mastery but i need another mastery i dont have for the events. You see? Its a vicious cycle.

Guild halls? Expensive. Scribing? Expensive. Fashion? Even more expensive. Ascended armor for raids? HAH. Not only is everything mastery gated, it’s gold gated as well. Also, the amount of gold spent on something relative to the value you get out of it is horrible. Do I want to spend hours of boring silverwaste chest farm for ascended armor for raids to get measly rewards? No thanks. I rather take that 800g and flush it down the mystic toilet.

That’s all I can think of atm. I’m just too tired to elaborate more.

In case you’re still running glass warrior, and getting kicks out of pwning people with an underpowered spec (like i am), just a heads up: you might want to switch to destruction of the empowered instead of brawler’s recovery. With all the boon sharing spam across all elite specs, you can really reap maximum benefits from this trait instead of brawler’s recovery (which probably wouldnt help much anyway).

Play like a thief. Pop stances, get in the fray, lay down your burst, and regardless of whether you can land it or not, GTFO. Been wanting to post this for quite some time but it always slips my mind. That’s all. Adios and have fun.

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Necro has usually countered ele. With last meta, cele necro didnt countered cele ele due to the fact that cele ele was broken, but necro had the tools to counter him. In fact, it was one of the few builds that could engage a 1v1 against an ele and potentially win

I was speaking about post nerf and pre-hot. Eles were fine then. In all my games as an ele, and all the duels i have fought, i haven’t met a single necro who stood a chance against meta d/d ele with the metabattle cele signet build.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me if you play a necro? Otherwise, im surprised at how you arrived at that conclusion.

Im not sure what I have to explain. Eles wrecked necros pre-HoT cause they were broken, but necros had a bunch of utilites that countered the ele build, which makes them better for a 1v1 that, lets say, a thief. Also, and thats not only my own experience but also top pvp streamers talking about it, cele necro could win cele ele if they played smartly

Yes, but like i said, they had to trait and build for it. Which would also mean they would counter ele but be vulnerable to everything else. The meta cele build then did not counter ele, and it’s not because eles were broken, but because it was a more well rounded build.

Which ‘top streamers’ were you referring to?

If I remember correctly, Phanta, Helseth and Denshee talked about this, and yes, eles were broken :/

Unlikely they were referring to the meta build then. And eles were broken pre-fire nerf but were fine post-fire nerf. To quote you, a ‘top streamer’ said so.

They were talking about meta builds, and there weretop streamers that though cele ele was still really strong post-nerf

Anyway, thats not OP related

Strong =/= op or broken. Strong = fine. There’s definitely going to be builds classified as strong, but not over the top. Meta ele was one of them.

Well, top streamers can say what they want but they could be wrong. Meta cele necro having an advantage over meta cele ele is definitely an unfounded belief. Im willing to prove so if needed.

Liewec.2896:

i dunno, i think there are quite a few oldschool specs that could give the elites a difficult time.
Engie: i’m still playing rifle SD and still oneshotting people.
Guard: i’m sticking with burns and still melting faces.
thouse are just 2 off the top of my head,
but i’ve only incorporated the elites into a few of my chars and i’m still having fun.
(not getting my butt kicked every fight)

Both of the builds you mentioned are gimmick and only works against lower skilled opponents. They would hardly give any decent player a ‘hard time’

Wolfey.3407:

ReaperJr.5967:

No hotjoins included?

I highly doubt that anyone considers Hot Join to be reliable information for anything PvP related….

1) No restrictions on who’s on what team
2) People can freely switch teams
3) People really don’t take it seriously, it’s a sand box to test builds / get your feet wet

Which is also exactly why i asked.

Outsider.6051:

ReaperJr.5967:

I think its really difficult to create a build that works well with dagger offhand in the current meta. Too many counters atm. Ive theorycrafted many builds but all of them end up in the gutter lol.

But ay, you will need all the cleanse you can get since you’re not going earth. So all cantrips, and your choice of heal and elite depending on your playstyle. Water/arcana/tempest or fire/water/tempest (would recommend slotting out cleansing fire for an aura shout if so) for more damage and smoother rotations but less defense, heal and might stacking. I think hoelbrak runes are mandatory if you intend to stack might otherwise you can either go soldiers if you’re running shouts or travellers if you aren’t. Leeching/energy sigils always :p

Hope this helps.

Edit: If you’re not running focus dont go aurashare, you cant afford it. So the usual 1 1 1 in water.

How would you say dagger offhand is dropped out? I’ve played the old cele meta and it was harder to survive which is pretty interesting. Old cele never had problems with conditions, and with tempest we have 40% damage reduction in protection, heals from auras and with it more access to regen. I played W/Ar/T with 3 cantrips, switching from signet heal to shout heal. Played cele, and played marauder, both durability runes with energy/battle sigil and doom/leeching. I’m interested to find out. I love offhand dagger and i’ve been looking for new ways to make it work for me again. I just seem to melt so fast even if i save my dodges instead of dodge rolling earth for extra might.

TL;DR
I’m confused, why does the old cele fare poorly in this new meta?

Okay, first off let’s address dagger offhand. Your sworn enemies in this meta are DH and Reapers. Without the reflects from focus offhand, you get sniped very easily by their LB. You cannot engage them in melee either due to their traps combined with melee pressure dealing more damage than you can heal up and sustain. Focus offhand helps alleviate by allowing you to pop invuln on earth 5 when you need it. Basically you can invuln their trap bomb.

Secondly, reapers. They have perma chill application, which means you are kittened unless you have diamond skin as you will have much difficulty cleansing all their conditions. Not to mention conditions from other enemies.

Lastly, the old ele went fire/water/arcana and relied mostly on attrition to win their 1v1s. Now, every other celestial build outclasses you in terms of damage and sustain so the same tactic won’t work.

That’s about it.

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Necro has usually countered ele. With last meta, cele necro didnt countered cele ele due to the fact that cele ele was broken, but necro had the tools to counter him. In fact, it was one of the few builds that could engage a 1v1 against an ele and potentially win

I was speaking about post nerf and pre-hot. Eles were fine then. In all my games as an ele, and all the duels i have fought, i haven’t met a single necro who stood a chance against meta d/d ele with the metabattle cele signet build.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me if you play a necro? Otherwise, im surprised at how you arrived at that conclusion.

Im not sure what I have to explain. Eles wrecked necros pre-HoT cause they were broken, but necros had a bunch of utilites that countered the ele build, which makes them better for a 1v1 that, lets say, a thief. Also, and thats not only my own experience but also top pvp streamers talking about it, cele necro could win cele ele if they played smartly

Yes, but like i said, they had to trait and build for it. Which would also mean they would counter ele but be vulnerable to everything else. The meta cele build then did not counter ele, and it’s not because eles were broken, but because it was a more well rounded build.

Which ‘top streamers’ were you referring to?

If I remember correctly, Phanta, Helseth and Denshee talked about this, and yes, eles were broken :/

Unlikely they were referring to the meta build then. And eles were broken pre-fire nerf but were fine post-fire nerf. To quote you, a ‘top streamer’ said so.

Ramoth.9064:

ReaperJr.5967:

gricks.1897:

In some cases, yes, this is true.

Necro/Reaper – Both are still viable.
DH/Guardian – Bunker guard is still valid, MediBurst is still valid
Scrapper/Engie – I still love running my Condi Engi over Scrapper in PvP
Chrono/Mesmer – This is debatable, I think it mostly is determined on playstyle. Chrono can make it easier, but standard Mesmer can still work just fine.
Daredevil/Theif – I honestly have not noticed a difference between these two. The only way I know the difference is the third dodge. Which is just a third dodge…
Berzerker/Warrior – This is the biggest one I see the Elite Spec being better than the base warrior, as it really seems to be, both from facing and playing.
Tempest/Ele- Both are still glass cannons, Tempest is just more flashy. I really think Tempest shines the most in PvE.

Honestly, for the most part, the Elites really just do add a different play style over power. I have been doing PvP nightly and now that I am used to what the Elites do, its just like playing any other classes. Just know the signature thing that those elites do and your fine.

What is your definition of viable, exactly? Getting stomped? Im curious as most of the builds you listed there are obsolete. Even d/d cele ele, a spec that performed very well in the past meta, has no place in this one. The massive power creep is evident and you’d be delusional to claim otherwise.

Daredevil (second most played class for me) is absolutely amazing compared to vanilla thief. Much easier initiative management, a lot more survivability and stunbreaks that are actually really good.

Reaper (most played class for me, by a long mile) it depends here, i think PvP wise they are very close, but reaper is definitely just that bit better. I think the biggest change that made vanilla necro that much better was that deathshroud is now a weapon swap.

Was referring to non-elite specs.