Guild Wars 2

Aomine.5012:

ReaperJr.5967:

Syde.5961:

Burtnik.5218:

Syde.5961:

I’m more concerned with the high sustain that comes with that type of damage. High damage is fine by me as long as it’s high risk. Unfortunately, Revs get both.

Say hi to condi reapers then.

Lol yeah, they do a kitten ton of damage too, tempests seem to be in the same boat however it’s either pretty much un-killable with some damage or still hard to kill with good burst.
I thought these Elite specs were just supposed to change the way a class played not just make it stronger….

I think you misspelled scrapper as tempest.

A good tempest is harder to kill than old D/D.

Yes but unfortunately the old D/D is 1. Not bunker 2. Melts within seconds in this meta

I like how the majority of people demanding for nerfs on diamond skin dont even know how ele works. So many ignorant statements here.

I think its really difficult to create a build that works well with dagger offhand in the current meta. Too many counters atm. Ive theorycrafted many builds but all of them end up in the gutter lol.

But ay, you will need all the cleanse you can get since you’re not going earth. So all cantrips, and your choice of heal and elite depending on your playstyle. Water/arcana/tempest or fire/water/tempest (would recommend slotting out cleansing fire for an aura shout if so) for more damage and smoother rotations but less defense, heal and might stacking. I think hoelbrak runes are mandatory if you intend to stack might otherwise you can either go soldiers if you’re running shouts or travellers if you aren’t. Leeching/energy sigils always :p

Hope this helps.

Edit: If you’re not running focus dont go aurashare, you cant afford it. So the usual 1 1 1 in water.

gricks.1897:

In some cases, yes, this is true.

Necro/Reaper – Both are still viable.
DH/Guardian – Bunker guard is still valid, MediBurst is still valid
Scrapper/Engie – I still love running my Condi Engi over Scrapper in PvP
Chrono/Mesmer – This is debatable, I think it mostly is determined on playstyle. Chrono can make it easier, but standard Mesmer can still work just fine.
Daredevil/Theif – I honestly have not noticed a difference between these two. The only way I know the difference is the third dodge. Which is just a third dodge…
Berzerker/Warrior – This is the biggest one I see the Elite Spec being better than the base warrior, as it really seems to be, both from facing and playing.
Tempest/Ele- Both are still glass cannons, Tempest is just more flashy. I really think Tempest shines the most in PvE.

Honestly, for the most part, the Elites really just do add a different play style over power. I have been doing PvP nightly and now that I am used to what the Elites do, its just like playing any other classes. Just know the signature thing that those elites do and your fine.

What is your definition of viable, exactly? Getting stomped? Im curious as most of the builds you listed there are obsolete. Even d/d cele ele, a spec that performed very well in the past meta, has no place in this one. The massive power creep is evident and you’d be delusional to claim otherwise.

Syde.5961:

Burtnik.5218:

Syde.5961:

I’m more concerned with the high sustain that comes with that type of damage. High damage is fine by me as long as it’s high risk. Unfortunately, Revs get both.

Say hi to condi reapers then.

Lol yeah, they do a kitten ton of damage too, tempests seem to be in the same boat however it’s either pretty much un-killable with some damage or still hard to kill with good burst.
I thought these Elite specs were just supposed to change the way a class played not just make it stronger….

I think you misspelled scrapper as tempest.

Ross Biddle.2367:

In the case of Chrono, the Chrono line remedied pretty much all the underlying flaws in the Mesmer class.

It’s not so much that Chrono made Mesmer redundant, rather Chrono fixed Mesmer.

All future Mesmer elite specs that don’t offer the answer that Chrono did to the Mesmer riddle will never be used nor viable

I wouldnt call giving a remedy to all underlying flaws in a class fixing the class :/ i mean, look what happens when you give everything a class is lacking to it? Massive power creep. Past meta used to revolve around building specs around strengths and weaknesses but now.. im not so sure any more.

Note that this post isnt mesmer specific. Im talking about most of the elite specs. :s

Although the upside is that some classes are finally more viable than others due to their glaring faults being addressed but eh, wish anet could have done it without the power creep.

Loop.8106:

PowerBottom.5796:

Loop.8106:

In all seriousness though, this trait needs to be looked at. In basicly every “high” mmr game theres 2 cele eles duo queing (and yes they are really duo queing) running Diamond Skin.

And why is that? Because it’s the only build with a chance of winning against a condi-reaper. Literally no build stands a chance in a 1v1 against a reaper. And ppl forget that taking diamond skin is a heavy commitment: You basically make your build very strong against 2-3 popular builds in a 1v1 (that can easily change their build a little and completely negate diamond skin), but you’ll loose tons of survivability in teamfights, where diamond skin is almost always basically useless and stone-heart is absolutely amazing and almost necessary against spiked dmg.

Do I like the trait? Hell no, but atm, it’s necessary for Ele’s to be somewhat strong in 1v1’s against the extremely powerful 1v1 builds out there.

Im not saying they should remove the trait, if you go back and read the possible solutions i have for it.
Giving it 66% reduced condi duration would basicly make it a top tier trait, even in teamfights.

Ill take 100% uptime of 66% reduced condi duration over current diamond skin any time. Pair with hoelbraek or melandru runes for over 85% reduced condi duration. Followed by 33% reduced movement impairing conditions which equals to 100% chill immunity. Yes please

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Talk about sticking fingers in your ears and ignoring facts. Just go to a custom arena and do a gunflame with the zerker build (i.e. using all signets and +damage bonuses) against a celestial ele with protection up. You’re gonna hit for 16ish k.

It’s 100% reproducable so YOU GUYS stop sticking fingers in your ears.

So.. remind me again, if it’s reproducable why havent you done it? Is it -gasp-, god forbid, because it actually isnt? Oh the horror, you couldnt be lying, could you?

OP must be a reaper or condi user determined to engage tempests in 1v1s. How cute.

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Necro has usually countered ele. With last meta, cele necro didnt countered cele ele due to the fact that cele ele was broken, but necro had the tools to counter him. In fact, it was one of the few builds that could engage a 1v1 against an ele and potentially win

I was speaking about post nerf and pre-hot. Eles were fine then. In all my games as an ele, and all the duels i have fought, i haven’t met a single necro who stood a chance against meta d/d ele with the metabattle cele signet build.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me if you play a necro? Otherwise, im surprised at how you arrived at that conclusion.

Im not sure what I have to explain. Eles wrecked necros pre-HoT cause they were broken, but necros had a bunch of utilites that countered the ele build, which makes them better for a 1v1 that, lets say, a thief. Also, and thats not only my own experience but also top pvp streamers talking about it, cele necro could win cele ele if they played smartly

Yes, but like i said, they had to trait and build for it. Which would also mean they would counter ele but be vulnerable to everything else. The meta cele build then did not counter ele, and it’s not because eles were broken, but because it was a more well rounded build.

Which ‘top streamers’ were you referring to?

nearlight.3064:

ReaperJr.5967:

nearlight.3064:

posthumecaver.6473:

Specially D/X variants are free food for DH, we have to be in melee range and we don’t have enough stability to get out of their traps.

Tempest fares well enough with reflects from mag aura, and you can pop armor or earth or focus 5 if you bring it. I’ve never felt that weak against a DH compared to when I play chronomancer that actually is very much countered by dragonhunter since it has a lot of unblockable CC.

I think the issue arrives when you are caught in an array of traps without obsidian focus (i.e. getting jumped with JI by a DH during a team fight). Unless you run armor of earth, even if traited, a measly stack of stability on overload wont save you. :/

Yeah, but let’s forget that being caught in that trap is generally a death sentence for most builds in the game, it’s hardly an elementalist specific weakness:

True. But tempests are more susceptible to them due to lack of stability.

Wolfric.9380:

The strange thing is that till now i can deal well with most reapers and i have only the followign condi removers:
Focus magnetic wave, cantrip cleansing flame, sigil of generosity and phönix.
Scepter/focus F/E/T (No diamond skin, i run stone heart and shouts).
No water, soldiers or eather renewal. Against the traper druid it is hazardous, but dragon hunters and reapers seem well managable.

Probably the scepter making a difference. Reapers need to be at close range to truly shine. If you were dagger mainhand you would probably get chilled 24/7

nearlight.3064:

Condi builds were useless for the bast year due to shoutbow dd ele and bunker guard. I’m glad they finally have their day in the sun at last.

Arcane/water builds will be fine if you take torrents and cleansing water. Or diamond skin and either focus or cleansing fire.

I think diamond skin could be reworked to be more useful below the threshold in teamfights and less overpowered above the threshold in 1v1s, but that’s just my view point on it.

Tempest/water*. Problem is that we will be pigeon holed into traitlines again. Also, i doubt we will be able to deal with reapers even with all that cleanse.

A rework would be nice but given anet’s history of reworking skills.. -shudder- i rather not.

nearlight.3064:

posthumecaver.6473:

Specially D/X variants are free food for DH, we have to be in melee range and we don’t have enough stability to get out of their traps.

Tempest fares well enough with reflects from mag aura, and you can pop armor or earth or focus 5 if you bring it. I’ve never felt that weak against a DH compared to when I play chronomancer that actually is very much countered by dragonhunter since it has a lot of unblockable CC.

I think the issue arrives when you are caught in an array of traps without obsidian focus (i.e. getting jumped with JI by a DH during a team fight). Unless you run armor of earth, even if traited, a measly stack of stability on overload wont save you. :/

Krysard.1364:

ReaperJr.5967:

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Necro has usually countered ele. With last meta, cele necro didnt countered cele ele due to the fact that cele ele was broken, but necro had the tools to counter him. In fact, it was one of the few builds that could engage a 1v1 against an ele and potentially win

I was speaking about post nerf and pre-hot. Eles were fine then. In all my games as an ele, and all the duels i have fought, i haven’t met a single necro who stood a chance against meta d/d ele with the metabattle cele signet build.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me if you play a necro? Otherwise, im surprised at how you arrived at that conclusion.

Saiyan.1704:

Supreme.3164:

As somebody said before in this thread : diamond skin is a hard counter to hard counter

The real problem is not even the condi spam which is manageable with enough practice, the issue is chill which affect the ele main profession mechanic attunement swap

The entire class is designed around attunement dancing even if this is less prevalent with tempest, ofc I understand the design point of view of having something affecting ele in particular, something like chill that completely shut down the whole profession; this was fine pre-HoT because it was not possible to maintain perma chill in any way.

But now you have an entire elite spec based around perma chill, this is the main reason why eles run diamond skin, it’s not because of the condi spam really but because of this devastating condition that can now be spammed with impunity; this is a hard counter at 100%

Now that reaper exist they should remove this fallacy of chill affecting attunement recharge, after that …trust me no ele would cry if you’d remove diamond skin the day after

The one class you’re talking about never needed the use of chill to kill elementalists to begin with. It’s a new minor tool out of several main ones they already had.

Just because you have 1 class that have little issues with Ele doesn’t mean things are fine. The Ele received a might nerf prepatch when this class already soft counter him. The Ele received a RoF change when this one class already soft countered him.

I’m hoping a similiar change will happen for diamond skin when this class continues to soft counter him. Have the Ele keep their usual sustains, just change the mechanic of DS.

False my boy, ily but you gotta listen to yourself man. You’re beginning to sound more and more ridiculous now.

Reapers no longer soft counter non-ds eles. They hard counter them. No amount of cleanse is gonna save us from 100% chill uptime.

The thought that cele necro pre hot countered cele ele was a myth. At least, the meta build couldnt do it. A necro would have to spec full boon convert to counter ele, which would make them vulnerable to other classes in pvp. Also the reason why nobody did it.

Gw2 used to be my favourite game. I used to spend thousands of hours on it, wondering how a game could be so good. I was thinking the ‘casual mmo’ idealogy was probably the reason. I could slowly spend my time enjoying this game, without fearing i would miss out on anything important if i didnt play.

Which was also why i was so hyped for the expansion. I had great hopes for hot. ‘If anet was so brilliant at creating the core game, the expansion would definitely be better.’ Was what i thought. Im a very skeptical person when it comes to buying games (college student supporting himself, not much to spare), but i instantly shelled out 100 USD after first bwe.

Then the expansion hit. Everything changed. For the worse. Even remnants of the word ‘casual’ were non-existent in hot content. Everything is a rush. Everything is gated. Everything is extremely expensive. Rewards were all over the place. Balance too. Anet tried too hard to go ‘esports’ without fixing the fundementals of spvp. Everything is just so much of a mess now it’s tiring and exhausting.

It’s no longer fun playing the game. It’s like they abandoned the whole idea of what makes gw2 fun and decided, let’s change everything, we need more sales. Devs dont communicate with their players as much as they used to. Some dont at all (hint hint a specific class). I had faith that anet would fix these issues after hot was released, but after so long in, ive given up.

Im sick and tired of this game. Done with it. Treat this as a useless rant post or whatever, i dont really care. I just think it’s sad to see a great game become so bad.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

xaiMera.3809:

It’s funny how Anet nerfed Automated Response (Condition duration is reduced by 100% when health is below 25%) for engi then introduced a similar trait for Ele’s but made it proc at 90% health lol.

Considering it was much harder for an Engie to sit between 0 and 25% health for prolonged periods (using your heal skill once would push you too high, for example) than it is for an Ele to sit between 90 and 100%? Yeah.

To fall below 100%, you’d need to take ~1,500 damage on a cele ele.

On a ele Tempest, you have a stronger protection, perma regen plus vigor and a constant flow of auras that heal 1,000+ health.

And no stability. Unless you take armor of earth. Which leads to only 2 auras on utility bar. And depending on your weapon set, 1 or 2 more auras. Not that hard to break ds.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Are you on crack? High stability uptime? The only stability you get on shiro glint is 1 stack of stab on dodge. And that lasts like what, a second? I wouldnt even bother addressing your other points since they dont even make sense in a 5v5.

2 1/2 – 2 2/3 seconds stab on dodge and if they take Enhanced Bulwark it is 5 seconds.
Of course you don’t respond to my other points. I would do the same if my arguments consist of false claims. Like this “one second of stab”.

ReaperJr.5967:

If the rev knows what he’s doing he will pop glint heal before you hit him with high damage? Are revs psychics now? They can read your mind? If he successfully does that, it means you got read like a book and outplayed. Nothing to do with glint heal being op.

Shiro heal is pathetic, i wont even bother talking about it. Lmao i dont even main revenant and its extremely easy to counter for me.

He can see my animations. You know, those things that should give you a chance for counterplay. Which is totally fine. Glint heal hasn’t such an animation. Or he just sits in fields. You can’t tell already placed fields to stop dealing dmg because the rev used his heal.

Shiro heal isn’t bad. Low casttime, decent healing over time, free extra dmg. Little counterplay …

Btw, i never wrote, revenant is op.

You’re implying rev is op. Stability is a stack. Per dodge. How many dodges does each rev get? That’s right, 2. Its not that hard to do math. Who even uses enhanced bulwark?!

With regards to animation, that also means you got outplayed. Saved his heal for the big inc burst? Gj rev. Im curious though, what kind of animation are you talking about again? Specifically? You can easily tell when glint heal is gonna pop, watch the status bar. Its not rocket science. I get the feeling you’re just bad.

Sitting in fields. LOL. Is warrior op too then? We have a heal skill similar to glint, we just gotta sit in fields to heal. Worst argument ive heard.

Btw, if you actually knew how to set up your burst while he is in shiro instead of glint.. maybe you wouldnt complain about the heals.

If you didnt know, Defiant stance has a cast time, Glint heal does not, Therefore you can interrupt defiant stance while you can’t with infused light.

How can this be a worst argument you have ever heard.? Clearly there is a difference between these two.

Glint heal you or may not attack him but 90% of the time in a team fight you will still get some hits while it is active, your team might hit the rev too.

In short.. Instant skills = no counterplay.

Whether you can interrupt it or not is irrelevant to the statement that glint heal is op because you can stand in fields and heal. Defiant stance can do that as well. I’m all for glint heal nerfs but arguments like that are stupid.

Why is it irrelevant? If you can successfully interrupt a heal, that is a big advantage to you.

This the reason why heals that have no cast time or barely or heals that cannot be interrupted, are super strong (withdraw, shelter, i.e)

The reason why glint is OP is because you can basically time your heal in the middle of a burst since its instant.

Because he justified it by saying you can heal in fields. Oh my god, is logic that hard to comprehend? K let me break it down simply for you.

Statement implication: glint heal is op partly because you can use it to heal in pulsing damage aoe.

My argument: that justification is ridiculous because defiant stance can do that too.

Could glint heal be viewed as op because of instant cast? Maybe. Is the fact that it is instant cast relevant to the argument that it is partly op because you can use it to heal in pulsing damage fields?. No.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Are you on crack? High stability uptime? The only stability you get on shiro glint is 1 stack of stab on dodge. And that lasts like what, a second? I wouldnt even bother addressing your other points since they dont even make sense in a 5v5.

2 1/2 – 2 2/3 seconds stab on dodge and if they take Enhanced Bulwark it is 5 seconds.
Of course you don’t respond to my other points. I would do the same if my arguments consist of false claims. Like this “one second of stab”.

ReaperJr.5967:

If the rev knows what he’s doing he will pop glint heal before you hit him with high damage? Are revs psychics now? They can read your mind? If he successfully does that, it means you got read like a book and outplayed. Nothing to do with glint heal being op.

Shiro heal is pathetic, i wont even bother talking about it. Lmao i dont even main revenant and its extremely easy to counter for me.

He can see my animations. You know, those things that should give you a chance for counterplay. Which is totally fine. Glint heal hasn’t such an animation. Or he just sits in fields. You can’t tell already placed fields to stop dealing dmg because the rev used his heal.

Shiro heal isn’t bad. Low casttime, decent healing over time, free extra dmg. Little counterplay …

Btw, i never wrote, revenant is op.

You’re implying rev is op. Stability is a stack. Per dodge. How many dodges does each rev get? That’s right, 2. Its not that hard to do math. Who even uses enhanced bulwark?!

With regards to animation, that also means you got outplayed. Saved his heal for the big inc burst? Gj rev. Im curious though, what kind of animation are you talking about again? Specifically? You can easily tell when glint heal is gonna pop, watch the status bar. Its not rocket science. I get the feeling you’re just bad.

Sitting in fields. LOL. Is warrior op too then? We have a heal skill similar to glint, we just gotta sit in fields to heal. Worst argument ive heard.

Btw, if you actually knew how to set up your burst while he is in shiro instead of glint.. maybe you wouldnt complain about the heals.

If you didnt know, Defiant stance has a cast time, Glint heal does not, Therefore you can interrupt defiant stance while you can’t with infused light.

How can this be a worst argument you have ever heard.? Clearly there is a difference between these two.

Glint heal you or may not attack him but 90% of the time in a team fight you will still get some hits while it is active, your team might hit the rev too.

In short.. Instant skills = no counterplay.

Whether you can interrupt it or not is irrelevant to the statement that glint heal is op because you can stand in fields and heal. Defiant stance can do that as well. I’m all for glint heal nerfs but arguments like that are stupid.

This is purely through matchmaking statistics right? No hotjoins included?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

This confirms that even warriors now hard counter thieves.

wp anet

??? From a 1v1 perspective?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Decrypter.1785:

Pretty sure Everyone,s MMR will reset for when leaderboards open soon , well i hope so anyways . Q for Evan , is MMR bound to both unranked/ranked or separate ? , I do hope its separate so new players n vets get separated from unranked/ranked players

It is separate. Also since noone will have played ranked in a while, everyone’s ratings will be more volatile than normal. This will help shake things up a bit.

Hi evan, i dont get this? How does absence of play (in ranked) lead to ratings being more volatile? Thanks in advance.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Are you on crack? High stability uptime? The only stability you get on shiro glint is 1 stack of stab on dodge. And that lasts like what, a second? I wouldnt even bother addressing your other points since they dont even make sense in a 5v5.

2 1/2 – 2 2/3 seconds stab on dodge and if they take Enhanced Bulwark it is 5 seconds.
Of course you don’t respond to my other points. I would do the same if my arguments consist of false claims. Like this “one second of stab”.

ReaperJr.5967:

If the rev knows what he’s doing he will pop glint heal before you hit him with high damage? Are revs psychics now? They can read your mind? If he successfully does that, it means you got read like a book and outplayed. Nothing to do with glint heal being op.

Shiro heal is pathetic, i wont even bother talking about it. Lmao i dont even main revenant and its extremely easy to counter for me.

He can see my animations. You know, those things that should give you a chance for counterplay. Which is totally fine. Glint heal hasn’t such an animation. Or he just sits in fields. You can’t tell already placed fields to stop dealing dmg because the rev used his heal.

Shiro heal isn’t bad. Low casttime, decent healing over time, free extra dmg. Little counterplay …

Btw, i never wrote, revenant is op.

You’re implying rev is op. Stability is a stack. Per dodge. How many dodges does each rev get? That’s right, 2. Its not that hard to do math. Who even uses enhanced bulwark?!

With regards to animation, that also means you got outplayed. Saved his heal for the big inc burst? Gj rev. Im curious though, what kind of animation are you talking about again? Specifically? You can easily tell when glint heal is gonna pop, watch the status bar. Its not rocket science. I get the feeling you’re just bad.

Sitting in fields. LOL. Is warrior op too then? We have a heal skill similar to glint, we just gotta sit in fields to heal. Worst argument ive heard.

Btw, if you actually knew how to set up your burst while he is in shiro instead of glint.. maybe you wouldnt complain about the heals.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Ross Biddle.2367:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

ReaperJr.5967:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

ReaperJr.5967:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

ReaperJr.5967:

Yasha.5963:

So a 20K ranged attack is possible, like the OP said. Do you think all the people who have laid on the hate and derided the OP will apologize?

It’s possible but it’s not broken. As you can see.. to land it requires the eight planets to be aligned.

Of course it’s broken. Of course you can (even rather easily) beat a warrior 1v1 even with Gunflame, because it’s easy to dodge.

That doesn’t change the fact that there shouldn’t be an attack that can instantly oneshot basically every build in the game from 1200 range. Getting one-shot out of the blue in a team fight, while you have 40% damage reduction from enhanced protection and about 2600 armor and 18k Health isn’t balanced no matter how underpowered Warriors are.

I can guarantee you didnt have protection. And you probably had vuln stacked on you. And he had max might stacks from external sources. Wouldnt be possible on a celestial ele otherwise.

The screenshot clearly shows me starting Air Overload, which gives 40% protection. Stop trying to argue. I have facts backing me up you’re just spewing hot air.

It doesn’t show you starting air overload. It just shows your air overload doing damage 4 logs back. That doesn’t mean anything. You could’ve completed air overload and it would still show in combat log.

If you’re so confident that you’re right, why not we bet on this? If you can link a video that shows you reproducing those numbers on an ele with protection boon clearly on, and running celestial, I’ll drop 50g for you. If you can’t, 50g from you goes into my pocket. How about it?

If you can’t reproduce it, that just means one thing. You were lying about having protection, as simple as that.

Either that, or you weren’t celestial.

Yeah that’s not how proof works. I don’t have to proof anything, I posted the screenshot showing clear evidence.

Actually the burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim.

Nobody’s under any obligation to disprove a claim just because someone made it. The screenshot of the damage is the object under scrutiny. It can’t be used as evidence as that the damage occurred isnt in question. Rather what’s in question is the circumstances behind how it occurred.

I don’t care one way or the other, but let’s just be clear on how the burden of proof works. :P

If a screenshot isn’t proof enough than none of this forum makes any sense and we might as well close it down because apparently there is no rational discussion here.

A screenshot may be sufficient proof for other cases but it definitely isnt for yours. Like i said, you screenshot doesnt even show that 1. You had protection 2. That you were still channeling overload which meant that you had protection 3. Whether there were unique circumstances leading to the damage

ReaperJr.5967:

This again? If you’re running a pure condition build you deserve to get countered by ds eles. Enough said.

And who the kitten comes up with the idea that condition builds shouldn’t be nullified by diamond skin? Why not? Because your mindlessly easy yet rewarding condition aids build doesn’t work on someone for once? Gtfo.

Diamond skin only works in a 1v1 anyway. Any other scenario, it’s break the 10% with your team mates, unload conditions, proceed to watch the ele die helplessly. Smh, some people just can’t l2p.

If anything, diamond skin should be buffed.

/thread

Okay to reply to everyone who disagrees, i shall just quote my own post and tell you why your argument does not hold.

1. First off, power scaling is offset by armor. If you have high power, and your opponent has high armor, you then deal less damage than you would against an opponent with low armor. On the other hand, condition damage has no such ‘counter-stat’. You could be a tank or a dps, my condition damage ticks for a ton regardless. Also, to truly get high damage from power builds, you will also need precision and ferocity.

Contrary to power builds, condi builds only needs condi damage. Basically, power builds need 3 stats to work, while condi only needs 1. Which also means they can get whatever other stats they want without compromising their damage. And this usually comes in the form of defensive stats, which leads me to my next point

2. Pure condi builds are usually defined as those without the power stat. If you have power stat, it means you’re a hybrid. And for that same reason, you cannot call a carrion reaper a power build. So arguing that your carrion reaper was not able to break the diamond skin of a tempest because he was power is, frankly speaking, a joke. Also, you mentioned the tempest ran water. So it was a earth/water/tempest. Which also means it was a bunker tempest. And what are bunkers supposed to do? They are supposed to be able to take focus fire. The tradeoff? He has practically non-existent damage. Why would you even try to break a BUNKER tempest’s diamond skin ALONE with a HYBRID build and then complain you cannot do it? Of course not.

3. In link with my first point, condition builds have no ‘counter’ except diamond skin. And no, cleanse is not a counter. Well, not unless you consider healing a counter to power builds. Moreover, cleanse is not readily available to everyone. And frankly speaking, condition builds can dish out more condi than most builds can cleanse. Resistance is an invalid argumemt for the same reason why endure pain and signet of stone are not complained about.

Last but not least, condi has never been a problem for me on my main (ele) so im not ‘salty’. It just that ive played them (settlers mesmer anyone?) and they are so brainlessly rewarding while being easy to play (sounds a lot like DH atm), there really is no reason to complain. Only reason why you would is because your conditions dont work on someone 1v1 for once and you are no longer able to get carried by your build hence you cry on forums about it.

Yeah, no dev response since bwe1. None at all whatsoever.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

ReaperJr.5967:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

ReaperJr.5967:

Yasha.5963:

So a 20K ranged attack is possible, like the OP said. Do you think all the people who have laid on the hate and derided the OP will apologize?

It’s possible but it’s not broken. As you can see.. to land it requires the eight planets to be aligned.

Of course it’s broken. Of course you can (even rather easily) beat a warrior 1v1 even with Gunflame, because it’s easy to dodge.

That doesn’t change the fact that there shouldn’t be an attack that can instantly oneshot basically every build in the game from 1200 range. Getting one-shot out of the blue in a team fight, while you have 40% damage reduction from enhanced protection and about 2600 armor and 18k Health isn’t balanced no matter how underpowered Warriors are.

I can guarantee you didnt have protection. And you probably had vuln stacked on you. And he had max might stacks from external sources. Wouldnt be possible on a celestial ele otherwise.

The screenshot clearly shows me starting Air Overload, which gives 40% protection. Stop trying to argue. I have facts backing me up you’re just spewing hot air.

It doesn’t show you starting air overload. It just shows your air overload doing damage 4 logs back. That doesn’t mean anything. You could’ve completed air overload and it would still show in combat log.

If you’re so confident that you’re right, why not we bet on this? If you can link a video that shows you reproducing those numbers on an ele with protection boon clearly on, and running celestial, I’ll drop 50g for you. If you can’t, 50g from you goes into my pocket. How about it?

If you can’t reproduce it, that just means one thing. You were lying about having protection, as simple as that.

Either that, or you weren’t celestial.

AFAIK minor trait tool tips are still wrong.
Rebound is still bad.
Stability on overload is still not baseline.

Fix please, anet?

This again? If you’re running a pure condition build you deserve to get countered by ds eles. Enough said.

And who the kitten comes up with the idea that condition builds shouldn’t be nullified by diamond skin? Why not? Because your mindlessly easy yet rewarding condition aids build doesn’t work on someone for once? Gtfo.

Diamond skin only works in a 1v1 anyway. Any other scenario, it’s break the 10% with your team mates, unload conditions, proceed to watch the ele die helplessly. Smh, some people just can’t l2p.

If anything, diamond skin should be buffed.

/thread

Cogbyrn.7283:

ReaperJr.5967:

Pro-vaxxers are not brick walls. Rather, we are supported by the brick wall that is science. That aside, i have no idea what you’re on about.

You mean, i shouldn’t be able to deal 20k even if i specced fully for damage with no regard for defense? Why? How is that questionable design? Im sacrificing defense entirely for that damage. It’s a tradeoff. Risk vs reward. High risk, high reward. Im also taking the risk that the opponent will get hit by one of the most telegraphed attacks in game. So why not?

Also, your analogy isnt really relevant. Before you ask, i had 5.3k solo mmr before quitting slightly more than a year ago, so i know what im talking about.

I didn’t ask for your MMR, because not only do I not care, I don’t believe you anyway.

I also don’t necessarily see a problem with Gun Flame, I just think giving a single attack the scaling potential to hit that hard is questionable design for this game. Do I think it should be a priority to “fix”? No. The game even has downed state so you can just rez a teammate who gets dropped by it anyway. But is it really fun gameplay for both parties to have one build that’s a one-pump-chump, where if you avoid it you win, and if you don’t you lose? It was extraordinarily boring fighting the Zerk Rifle Warrior who specced into this gimmick a bit earlier tonight, because he just folded over.

Is that what it should be? Either you go full gimmick and try to land kill shots, or it isn’t very good? Do you think that’s really good design that deserves strong support in the face of scrutiny?

Whether you believe it or not, facts remain facts. I dont see the need to prove it to you either. Was just throwing it out before i get accused of not knowing how the game works. That aside, i think youre confusing game design with player intention.

To put it simply, you’re assuming killshot has to go gimmick for it to work. Which in that case, is all or nothing. Either i kill you or you kill me within the next second. If that were truly the case, then yes, it is bad game design.

But that’s not the case. Killshot (builds) works fine without going through the gimmick route. In fact, one with less damage but has survivability equipped works better than the gimmicky version. It’s a player’s choice to build it as a gimmick or an actual build. Which isnt an issue with game design.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

ReaperJr.5967:

Yasha.5963:

So a 20K ranged attack is possible, like the OP said. Do you think all the people who have laid on the hate and derided the OP will apologize?

It’s possible but it’s not broken. As you can see.. to land it requires the eight planets to be aligned.

Of course it’s broken. Of course you can (even rather easily) beat a warrior 1v1 even with Gunflame, because it’s easy to dodge.

That doesn’t change the fact that there shouldn’t be an attack that can instantly oneshot basically every build in the game from 1200 range. Getting one-shot out of the blue in a team fight, while you have 40% damage reduction from enhanced protection and about 2600 armor and 18k Health isn’t balanced no matter how underpowered Warriors are.

I can guarantee you didnt have protection. And you probably had vuln stacked on you. And he had max might stacks from external sources. Wouldnt be possible on a celestial ele otherwise.

StickerHappy.8052:

Schurge.5194:

I’m sorry OP. I am sorry that you refused to post a screen shot that would give us more information because you knew very well the stars had to align for it to happen. I am sorry that you think the evidence of a 20k Gunflame on a dummy vindicates your claims that this ability needs to be looked at.

There is a shatter mesmer build that can reliably “one shot” me through 21k Shroud and 26k Health… It dies from a fart and has a 1:1 K/D ratio. Perfectly fine in my opinion. So to is this gimmicky useless Gunflame build.

The usual forums… hilarious..

You do realize how many buttons the gun flame warrior has to press right?

f2 then f1? LOL.

show me that RELIABLE 21k shatter you speak of.

… this, my friends, is a perfect example of a person who has selective data processing. Why do we even bother explaining to people like these?

As chaith said, it’s B.

Cogbyrn.7283:

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s like trying to convince an anti-vaxxer, i’m talking to a brick wall.

Ironically, so many “pro-vaxxers” are brick walls, too. And let me tell you what, two brick walls don’t communicate well at all. No they do not.

Also, on one hand, anything that hits for 20k is probably not designed very well. I don’t care if it takes 6 seconds of obvious channel-dancing. At that point, even if it is obvious/easy to avoid, that just means it has to be obvious/easy to avoid, so you have black/white gameplay: avoid it and win, get hit and probably lose. Questionable design.

On the other hand, dying in sPvP is not really the end of the world. You just respawn and run back in, hopefully having learned. If you didn’t learn, watch carefully the next time and learn. It’s like being Laguna Bladed in DOTA 2 (an ultimate that does a very large amount of damage instantly to a target). Yeah, you probably died, but either you entered an engagement you shouldn’t have, or your team can potentially clean up the now-much-less-threatening Lina/Warrior.

Not necessarily the biggest deal, imo.

Pro-vaxxers are not brick walls. Rather, we are supported by the brick wall that is science. That aside, i have no idea what you’re on about.

You mean, i shouldn’t be able to deal 20k even if i specced fully for damage with no regard for defense? Why? How is that questionable design? Im sacrificing defense entirely for that damage. It’s a tradeoff. Risk vs reward. High risk, high reward. Im also taking the risk that the opponent will get hit by one of the most telegraphed attacks in game. So why not?

Also, your analogy isnt really relevant. Before you ask, i had 5.3k solo mmr before quitting slightly more than a year ago, so i know what im talking about.

Schurge.5194:

Jelzouki.4128:

Nier.8741:

I’ve seen this guy play, he literally is one of the most low reaction time players in game. I would rank him Bronze tbh.

Yeah Revenant is OP and takes no skill, but so does Signet Reaper? And Condis > Rev since most revs won’t really use Lyssa or range with hammer anyways.

You’re just bad at landing hydromancy procs and signet tbh on Necro considering you’re one of the most “downstate” oriented Necros in the game. Like killing people on Reaper isn’t even hard, you just land your hydromancy procs and eventually the Plague Signet which is easy to land because people are inclined to dodge marks anyways so baiting dodges before you Plague Signet isn’t hard (Doesn’t help that they can’t tell which the chill mark is and which the bleed mark is).

Like Necro has one of the easiest dodge baits in the game AND they have kittened unblockables too, ofc you counter-pressure to survive but more-so positioning.

TL;DR OP is Just another Bronze level Reaper using his mouth instead of his brain.

My team has come first in the AG weekly, and made it to pro league qualifiers, and if you want to get delicate we’ve beat radioactive and apex prime in scrims so let me ask you this: where are your credentials?

Even pros have bad days.

If you are all that and a bag of chips you are well aware of the counter-play to those abilities and the class as a whole. Don’t make a scrub whine post and then get indignant if people see you as a scrub.

I don’t play Revenant nor is it a regular in the mediocre teams I run with.

One think ive noticed about NA ‘pros’ is that, apart from the abjured, all of them are mechanically lacking. Their only saving grace are rotational abilities acquired from playing frequently as a team.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Ritt.3069:

Unrelenting Assault:
-CC it during the 3/4s cast time (ez)
-Evade
-Hug a wall
-Block/Invuln
-LoS during cast time
-Stealth unless you have a Reveal (and even that is evadeable)
-Minions/Clones—>What damage?

Many revs have high stability uptime and not every class has (nearly) instant CC. Which makes CC not as “ez” as you claim. Evade only avoids part of the dmg, because ,you know, not every class has 2sec evades on their weaponskills. Invulns have usually long cd. Hugging walls limits your mobility. Stealth isn’t aviable for everyone.

Ritt.3069:

Glint Heal:
-See him going to Glint form? He will use heal soon, if you keep pressuring him
—>Don’t hit heal of stupid

Shiro Heal:
-See him using Shiro heal? Just evade/block/blind through the life steals, and you may effectively nullify a burst AND a heal.

Glint heal is instant and if the rev is not completely stupid he will use it right before you hit him (preferable with high dmg ability) or just tank some fields. It is nearly impossible to never hit into the heal, if the rev knows what he is doing.

To counter Shiro heal you have to avoid every single hit for 15 sec, because the lifesteal doesn’t proc, if the rev doesn’t hit. Not possible in most situations.

Counterplay against rev is limited. Of course it is possible to counterbuild, especially with other elite specialisations. And this isn’t even a rev only issue. More and more it is build > skill.

What? Are you on crack? High stability uptime? The only stability you get on shiro glint is 1 stack of stab on dodge. And that lasts like what, a second? I wouldnt even bother addressing your other points since they dont even make sense in a 5v5.

If the rev knows what he’s doing he will pop glint heal before you hit him with high damage? Are revs psychics now? They can read your mind? If he successfully does that, it means you got read like a book and outplayed. Nothing to do with glint heal being op.

Shiro heal is pathetic, i wont even bother talking about it. Lmao i dont even main revenant and its extremely easy to counter for me.

Morwath.9817:

ReaperJr.5967:

Hello. I do think that an in game voip would solve majority of issues here. Communicating cannot be lacking in a real time action game

I believe good voice command system > in game voice chat, which may be not true for NA, but for sure it’s true for EU, where people speak many different languages and often doesn’t speak english at all.

And that too. We could learn from mobas like dota 2 where you can give warnings and instructions through a command wheel. An in game voip is definitely needed though.

Sunshine.5014:

So, in the best condition, it deals 20k, and in normal condition it deals 15k. It’s fine, class like Thief can endure the one shot.

Under normal conditions, if you’re running a build that actually allows you to survive past the first gunflame, it deals 10-12k if it crits.

Vague Memory.2817:

Mes thinks gun flame is a bit broken with 20K hits don’t you think.

Since no one believes these statements without a pic, find it below. If anyone is wondering why I got hit twice by this, it is because the first one downed me (I usually have 21K health) and 2nd one was when I was downed. Note: the player who did this then started to boast how good he was.

Here’s your original post. Bottom line of the post: gunflame is broken. We then went on to tell you those numbers weren’t possible because we have never produced them with builds that are even remotely viable.

Then we did a little bit of theorycrafting, and changed our stance. It might be possible with builds fully specced for damage. So I went ahead and tested it and got a 17k gunflame with an extremely gimmicky build.

Surprisingly, some other warrior 1ups me with a 19k gunflame. But how did he do it?
-> went zerker ammy
-> went scholar runes
-> changed all utilities for the sake of granting might and inflicting vuln
-> popped all of them, including heal, for 22 might stacks and 10 vuln
-> had to build up adrenaline on other target golems
-> had to waste a dodge roll for that 10% damage
→ had to do it 6 or 7 times

Then presto, 19k gunflame. Still think it’s broken? We won’t try to convince you then. It’s like trying to convince an anti-vaxxer, i’m talking to a brick wall.

Tldr; gunflame isnt broken, to land a 20k hit you need the stars and planets to align.

Justin ODell.9517:

Some of these are really hard to make tangible in code.

Stand The Wall.6987:

average knowledge of pvp strategies, rotations, and roles

We can sort of make assumptions about this by looking at rank and rating, but it’s not a direct correlation.

Stand The Wall.6987:

the power of 3rd party communications

This isn’t something we can detect. Even if we could, some teams just communicate better. We definitely want to do things that lessen the gap in this regard, so feel free to start a new thread if you have ideas here.

Stand The Wall.6987:

average player skill

MMR is suppose to correlate with this by gauging your performance over time versus other players.

Stand The Wall.6987:

what a 2 player premade can do

We try to pair like-sized rosters together to compensate for things like this.

Stand The Wall.6987:

a timeline (impossible as of now) of larger premades vs smaller ones

We’re recording the result of all games played under the new system. So, hopefully this data will improve our understanding and give us more ways to test the assumptions we are making.

Stand The Wall.6987:

team composition in a pick up group environment

Team composition (as in roles, etc.) would be nice, but people already don’t like not being able to change character… I think they’d like being locked into a build even less.

Stand The Wall.6987:

what all of these things can do for a team when they are in sync

This is a big one. It might be nice to pair players together in the long run by their performance together over time, but we’re not at a point where we want to try this yet.

Hello. I do think that an in game voip would solve majority of issues here. Communicating cannot be lacking in a real time action game

Having more fun with killshot. Also, thief is still in a better spot than warrior, you just dont see good ones (check: toker) around to play them to their full potential

Teutos.8620:

Not not sure if it’s on my side, but your post is really hard to read.
If feels you have some basic misunderstandings how interrupting currently effects your cooldown.

Rodzynald.5897:

What is running on my mind is the ability to interrupt our own skills once we begin to cast it with nothing more than just our escape button BUT with lower cooldown to it.

You can bind “stow weapon” to any key you want to interrupt (or stop) your own skill.

With the ability to stop our skills being cast by ourselves (dodging while using renewed focus included) would give us more counter possibilities in a fight.

If a skill gets interrupted (it does not matter if it got interrupted from yourself or from the opponent) you will end up with a much shorter cooldown (in most cases).
E.g. Mirror Blade has a normal cooldown of 8 seconds, if I interrupt the skill during the cast, it only has a 4 seconds cooldown. If an opponents interrupts the skill, it has a 5 seconds cooldown.

The are some exceptions to this rule tho.
Exception #1: The most common one is, that skills, which grant you an immediate benefit will go on full cooldown when they are getting interrupted.
E.g. “renewed focus”: If you interrupt renewed focus, it goes on full cooldown, since you already had the immediate benefit of being immune.

Exception #2: Mesmer with the trait ‘Power Block’ or Thiefs using ‘Distracting Daggers’ will increase your cooldown after interrupting your ability by more than those 5 seconds.

Exception #3: Some skills are just bugged. Prior HoT interrupting ‘Point Blank Shot’ would have put it on full cooldown (got fixed with HoT tho, not sure if currently some skills are suffering from this).

The thing is, when we get for example blinded, we would just stop the casting animation of certain spells and make them go on a cooldown which is much shorter.

Which is exactly, what you already can and should do. If you get blinded using a high cooldown weapon skill, just stow weapon, press auto attack to get rid of the blind, then (after 4 seconds) cast the long cooldown weapon skill again. This is really important for strong weapon effects like ‘Phantasmal Berserker’ or ‘Pin Down’.

Lol i had no idea what OP was talking about either and was gonna explain stowing weapons etc.. but kudos to you, you did it first

Yasha.5963:

So a 20K ranged attack is possible, like the OP said. Do you think all the people who have laid on the hate and derided the OP will apologize?

It’s possible but it’s not broken. As you can see.. to land it requires the eight planets to be aligned.

Ross Biddle.2367:

https://youtu.be/G5uA2vppfPY

Ok I managed to recreate this TODAY. Vid shows everything from gear to traits vs a light golem in the mists.

Note that this would be a 1v1 setup, best a berserker could achieve, and absolutely everything would have to go off without a hitch -_-u

Here is the build I used.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJAURnMdAVegthAmCCcigliATJv16yCGDgHQA4d4mcfuA-TJRBwAX3fozFAgcZAAPAAA

Notice I had to both burn my endurance with a dodge, and do a weapon swap for the additional 4 stacks of might (2 from sigil, 2 from versatile power) to a grand total of 22 stacks of might vs 10 stacks of vuln on target.

Oh, and one last thing. To get the adrenaline, I engaged the other two golems in combat until it was full, and sat there waiting for the golem to spawn with all my cd’s to be ready to burn -_-U

LOL. Now that’s a gimmick build if ive seen one. Wouldnt be viable in pvp at all but gj that was well thought out for the single purpose of achieving a 20k gunflame

Diamond skin is fine. If you spec the cancer that is pure condi (like pre hot mesmer) then you entirely deserve the karma of going up against a ds ele.

Almost everyone that qqs about ds ele are pure condi aids users who cry because their condis ez mode dont work on someone for once. ‘No build should completely counter another’, lol get a load of that bs. Says who?

K i just tested yesterday. To hit that kind of damage, i had to go str/disc/berserk with all damage traits. Destruction of empowered, burst mastery, 10% damage boost in berserk etc. Was running zerker ammy with pack runes, intelligence sigil on rifle. Had to go with power signet too. I crit for 17k.

I dont think there’s something wrong with gunflame. You need to have all your damage modifiers up to achieve that kind of number. I probably had the 10% bonus from endurance not being full and 20% from berserker’s power. Not to mention might stacks and maybe vuln on the opponent. Didnt have much time to analyse in the middle of a match.

The reason why the damage varies so much is probably because of warrior’s damage modifiers being so situational.

Vague Memory.2817:

ReaperJr.5967:

Why are we still wasting our time with this guy? Obvious troll is obvious.

-> Claims to have 5k games
-> Don’t know what class and amulet has to do with damage taken
-> Gets hit by one of the most telegraphed skill in game
-> In wvw, most likely
-> Comes to qq in pvp forum instead of l2p
-> Typical noob

You need to get a life.

Sounds like you don’t want gun flame looked at.

They have looked at it. They can look at it again. There’s nothing wrong with it. There is something wrong with you though.

aggelos r.5387:

Plz add dishonor at everyone that select skyhammer

LOL DIS GUY. HERE, HAVE A COOKIE.

Why are we still wasting our time with this guy? Obvious troll is obvious.

→ Claims to have 5k games
→ Don’t know what class and amulet has to do with damage taken
→ Gets hit by one of the most telegraphed skill in game
→ In wvw, most likely
→ Comes to qq in pvp forum instead of l2p
→ Typical noob

You need to get a life.