Guild Wars 2

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

let’s see

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

hmm

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face.

tell me how cleansing ire nullifying an intended weakness again.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Simon.3794:

it is funny because you weren’t even there when warriors were bad nor when warriors received their buffs, you just assume that and question the inability of top players’ judgement towards warrior from the past,
while pulling some random skills, pretend like they work that way and thinking no one has ever tested these things and tried to make them viable anyhow,
only shows how low tier you are.

It’s funny that you assume someone who has been playing since beta weekend 2 knows nothing about where Warriors were compared to where they are now. They had a lot more buffs than even you seem to remember, or did you not know that Hammer actually got a load of buffs since launch because it was considered too weak? They rolled some of those buffs back recently.

Those skills and traits are not “random.” They are cleansing options that Warriors (and only Warriors) have and, when I do play my Warrior, are plenty to keep me from feeling weak to conditions. But, I’ve only seen Cleansing Ire used and once (just once) Shake it Off by others. Why? Because it is so strong, they don’t even have to really spec into defense against their designed weakness.

If Warriors had strong condition cleansing ability with heavy investment, I’d be fine with it. If you spec heavily into doing something, you should be good at it. The issue is that they need 4 points in Defense (Dogged March and Cleansing Ire) and they’re set. They have great condition resistance without using a single cleanse skill.

I have an incredibly difficult time believing that Warriors right now are actually weak to conditions. They have multiple ways of clearing or reducing snares (the ones that are actually problematic for melee builds) without even getting into the generic condition defense.

Because playing since beta makes you know anything better, i’ve been playing this game since jan 2013 and i wouldn’t say anything during that time just only because i played during it, i only started to know stuff when i heavely invested in to PvP and it’s only 2 months later i started to see stuff more clear, you with your comments clearly shows how little you know about not only pvp but warrior, or even necro.

If you really paid attention to what was happening, you wouldn’t even post assumptions like that assuming what really happened and thinking you know better, all your assumptions are just way off the chart and it’s painful to read. you have been disapprove more then enough for me to even post anything,
please actually read some posts before you post stuff and stay educated without posting blank assumptions and thinking you know better.

People like Drarnor Kunoram are really funny.
they have been complaining and disproved by others, yet they keep complaining in other threads with the same “opinions” with no valid argument inside.

yet they never realize that it’s not the game, it’s their skills, i would happily duel your hambow warrior with my 50 games necros and show you how wrong you are and teach you how to beat a warrior

bigmonto.4215:

Well I think you need to put in perspective of warrior as a whole vs only a specific build or weapon.

Mostly a warrior is a melee character. CI is not a self proc, it requires a burst hit. It is comparably more difficult for a melee attack to hit compare to ranged. Warrior also need some of these condition clear to cleanse the soft CCs, to even get to the target.

The notable exception is LB. Warrior LB burst seems too easy to proc CI. So that might need to be look at.

However, IMO, condition spec are way too OPed at the moment, and really should be addressed first.

im not sure if you play a necromancer, because it’s because of their weakness of can not get out of the focus fire easily, they have to play sneaky so – manly point here.

and wurm works exactly like teleport, in battle of kyhlo, i can place the wurm on rooftop while fighting at mid point and teleport to the rooftop whenever i like if i sense danger. that’s only one teleport point, there are so many others on other map.
which thieves, mesmer, eles have been using to get out of combat instantly.
also don’t tell me doom or 1200 range aoe is manly.

Poplolita.2638:

Simon.3794:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I never stated “Cleansing Ire alone is enough defense agaisnt conditions” I said it was the only cleanse you needed because it is just that strong.
Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

“it was the only cleanse you needed because it is just that strong” = “Cleansing Ire alone is enough defense agaisnt conditions” is it that difficult to understand.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Berserker Stance doesn’t cleanse conditions. Ever.

yea, it doesn’t but it prevent condition applications so you will have less condition to cleans, also it gives you adrenaline so you can cleans more condition with cleansing ire, without it ( or other adrenaline gaining skills which are all useless and bad) its impossible to keep up full adrenaline for 3 condition cleanse, unless ofc if you wait a long time to use burst skills. a lot of time you will be using burst skill with only level 1 adrenaline causing one condition removal, some of the times you will have no adrenaline to use your burst skills.

talking about adrenaline, heres a quote shows how little you know about this class.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Adrenaline as a weakness…lol! There’s nothing a Warrior has to do to keep his adrenaline up. He just fights and it happens. Necromancers and Mesmers, now they have resource management as a weakness. Warriors? Yeah right.

which brings me to one of my favorite quote from another game’s forum

it amazes me how someone can be so condescending towards others, when he himself has not tried the build yet, nor does he know anything about how the associated-skills work.

i seriously don’t know why you are still arguing. i already proved how wrong you are before this comment.

You did not proove him wrong. When you start comparing other class ressource management with adrenaline, it appears less and less of a weakness, and more like a strenght. Try playing other professions, you’ll see.

it amazes me how someone can be so condescending towards others, when he himself has not tried the build yet, nor does he know anything about how the associated-skills work.

i did prove his ORIGINAL point wrong, which is cleansing ire is op and strong enough on it’s own to prevent a warrior from being overloaded by condition

this is just a side point.

maybe you should read the thread before posting.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Here’s the way I see thing happening if Cleansing Ire gets an ICD on cleanse:

1. Warriors become less popular for a while as people whine about how they have no cleansing options.

2. Some people adapt, realizing that they do, in fact, have cleansing options.

3. Several months later, the new “meta” builds incorporate some alternative cleansing options or admit to having a weakness to conditions.

4. People realize that actual weaknesses should exist in every build. If they don’t have actual weaknesses, they shouldn’t have actual strengths either.

Granted, step 4 will never happen with the vast majority, because they always want their own build to not have weaknesses.

But, given that the following exist for Warrior condition cleansing, but are never used because CI makes them unnecessary, saying “no other options” is flat-out false.

Charge: removes Cripple, Chill, and Immobilize
Mending (3 conditions removed, 20 second cooldown)
Signet of Stamina (all conditions removed, 45 second cooldown, useful passive to let you avoid applications more often)
“Shake it Off!” (1 condition removed AoE, stunbreak, 20 second cooldown, will remove Fear+1 condition)
Restorative Strength (activating a heal skill removes cripple, chill, immobilize, and weakness, applies before healing skill’s effects, so Mending removes those 4 plus 3 others)
Shrug it Off (automatic “Shake it Off!” when affected by 2 or more conditions)
Quick Breathing (Warhorn skills convert a condition to a boon)

If you’re that worried about conditions, you have options aplenty. Heck, 2 points in the Power line + Mending gives you a potential 7 condition cleanse on a 20 second cooldown. That’s insanely efficient.

it is funny because you weren’t even there when warriors were bad nor when warriors received their buffs, you just assume that and question the inability of top players’ judgement towards warrior from the past,
while pulling some random skills, pretend like they work that way and thinking no one has ever tested these things and tried to make them viable anyhow,
only shows how low tier you are.

Marcos.3690:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

because, it is balanced, that is why.

berserker stance
- 8 or 10 seconds duration
- 52 or 50 seconds down time
- immune to conditions only
- will die from direct damage
- susceptible to crowd control skills
- take up 1st utility slot

endure pain
- 4 or 5 seconds duration
- 56 or 55 seconds down time
- immune to direct damage only
- crippled, chilled condition effects still affect movement speed
- susceptible to crowd control skills
- take up 2nd utility skill slot

balanced stance
- breaks stun upon activation
- from 8 seconds duration of stability and swiftness
- 40 seconds recharge time, around 30 seconds down time
- stability boon can be very easily removed
- will die from condition damage and direct damage
- take up 3rd utility skill slot

mesmers get it free from f4, no need to use utility skill slot
engineers and elementalist only need to use 1 utility skill slot

warriors need to use all 3 utility skill slots to achieve the same effect, and yet the stability boon can be so easily removed.

it is balanced.

warriors do not have un-removable stability unlike mesmers, engineers and elementalist.

Engineers and elementalists cannot do actions while they are immune.

Warrior can solo 2 people while being immune.

Engineers and eles lose the node while they are immune.

Warrior doesn’t.

Also, the durations

etc
etc
etc
(I’m not talking about mesmer because it’s the weakest class, so nothing to say)

Also, let’s not talk about HP pools & toughness

just something wrong i want to point out there,

ele earth focus 5 obsidian flesh gives complete invulnerability for 4 seconds with 50 seconds cooldown and you CAN cast abilities during it.
that’s one button skill better then endure pain, berserker stance, balanced stance together (hint: stripe the stab and cc to waste their stances)

DaliIndica.9041:

Simon.3794:

DaliIndica.9041:

Simon.3794:

style.6173:

@OP:

Either you are really low ranked or it reinforces my point that the matchmaking in this game is horrible.

if you look at his comments, you will realize that hes low tier himself.

Haha, sure. I think you may have made racist comments before. In fact I am sure you have.

(I can make baseless assumptions as well)

i do read the forum

and i also know that you are a soloq hero who only moved to soloteamq recently.
and you spent most of your time being outside of leaderboard ranking, even tho every one knows how easy it is to get in.

I only came back to the game about 2 months ago and got on the leaderboard. Slowed down on the soloQ and slipped off it. Its amazing how many of this forum have a little clique and you continually move the goal posts each time.

“Oh you are not even on the leaderboard”

“oh you are not in the top 500, thats the real players”

“oh your not top 250, outside of that is casuals”

“oh top 100 or your just a scrub being carried by better players”

Besides which any time someone has an opinion people quickly check the leaderboard to see if that opinion has any value. You cannot actually judge the issue unless a top player tells you what to think. Its sad really.

I must say the gw2 pvp elite crew are perhaps the most vile part of this community. Everyone is kitten and worthless unless your top (whatever number they are upwards). One day this game will just be a handful of players facing a few others and you will have no one to blame but yourselves.

im not judging you for being low rank or saying you are useless, i have nothing against new players, only it gets annoying when some of them have some huge ego.
i’m talking about if you are low end or not , because your rank is low and it directly resulting your match making with low rank people, that’s how it is.

people say leaderboards doesnt mean sh, because it takes little to get on high ranks , and other stuff.,

BUT you can’t deny the fact that good players usually secure top spots without trying. OE almost always in top 200 and he doesnt even try, just like most other known players.
which means LB does reflect skills, if you can’t reach any higher ranks with normal playing(constantly), then your skill level is just about there.

remove this kitten, i rarely even play soloq anymore and today i went cuz yolo

guess what i was forced to switch to my engi midway in order to carry my team against 3 decap, it was too much bs i had to switch.

DaliIndica.9041:

Simon.3794:

style.6173:

@OP:

Either you are really low ranked or it reinforces my point that the matchmaking in this game is horrible.

if you look at his comments, you will realize that hes low tier himself.

Haha, sure. I think you may have made racist comments before. In fact I am sure you have.

(I can make baseless assumptions as well)

i do read the forum

and i also know that you are a soloq hero who only moved to soloteamq recently.
and you spent most of your time being outside of leaderboard ranking, even tho every one knows how easy it is to get in.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I never stated “Cleansing Ire alone is enough defense agaisnt conditions” I said it was the only cleanse you needed because it is just that strong.
Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

“it was the only cleanse you needed because it is just that strong” = “Cleansing Ire alone is enough defense agaisnt conditions” is it that difficult to understand.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Berserker Stance doesn’t cleanse conditions. Ever.

yea, it doesn’t but it prevent condition applications so you will have less condition to cleans, also it gives you adrenaline so you can cleans more condition with cleansing ire, without it ( or other adrenaline gaining skills which are all useless and bad) its impossible to keep up full adrenaline for 3 condition cleanse, unless ofc if you wait a long time to use burst skills. a lot of time you will be using burst skill with only level 1 adrenaline causing one condition removal, some of the times you will have no adrenaline to use your burst skills.

talking about adrenaline, heres a quote shows how little you know about this class.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Adrenaline as a weakness…lol! There’s nothing a Warrior has to do to keep his adrenaline up. He just fights and it happens. Necromancers and Mesmers, now they have resource management as a weakness. Warriors? Yeah right.

which brings me to one of my favorite quote from another game’s forum

it amazes me how someone can be so condescending towards others, when he himself has not tried the build yet, nor does he know anything about how the associated-skills work.

i seriously don’t know why you are still arguing. i already proved how wrong you are before this comment.

style.6173:

@OP:

Either you are really low ranked or it reinforces my point that the matchmaking in this game is horrible.

if you look at his comments, you will realize that hes low tier himself.

you can simply not win a dire thief in wvw roaming scenario, it’s just impossible.
only thing you can do is to not die

a t s e.9614:

Simon.3794:

“can be easily overloaded with conditions once their defenses run out”

try play against any experienced necro without berserker stance(the defense) and only cleansing ire.
you will get overloaded with conditions in no time. and berserker stance can be easily counterplayed by walking away.

anyone still thinks that hambow is strong vs condition after lyssa nerf needs to get better. a warrior without berserker stance gets easily taken by condition if you know what you are doing, except i bet most of you don’t

i bet my 50 games necro can duel your warrior.

want to know how its done? a warrior without berserker stance, they overload you with condition(including chill and cripple) while you are on hammer, then avoid your easy to avoid crippled chillded earth shaker by simply positioning, dodging, minion knock back, blind ( or fear), then when you switch to longbow trying to combustive shot to cleans only half of the conditions on you, same thing, they can fear you or minion knock back, or if they feared you before ( which means you had to use stability in order to use combustive shot) then they can boon corrupt to chain even longer fear.

You said it yourself , go fight a necro without berserk stance? Why anybody would do that ? Hambow 3 stances beats necros.

Anyway I’m not going to defend necro because as I said the animations are poorly telegraphed .

OP said, CI is op and viable even without berserker stance and you are OK with CI alone, which is not. and will get completely overloaded by condition. CI alone is just not good enough even with longbow, only be paired with berserker stance makes it decent.
and i was giving an example how hes wrong

you want tactic for a necro to fight a zerker stance warrior? it’s the same think with a few step more.

apply condition(including chill cripple) from far, and he will walk like a turtle and takes forever to get to you and just keep applying conditions.
he will be forced to go berserker stance in order to reach up to you, minion knock back.
if he pops berserker stance with balanced stance, boon corrupt then minion knock back, as he gets close to you, double triple w/e dodge backward or forward, well, dodge hammer CCs, his berserker stance will be gone by the time he reaches you, he may not even have the time to use his hammer skills and he will have no defense left at all other then endure pain, you can just chain fear him to death, you don’t even need to use your stunbreaks.

3 stances warrior does not beat necro, either you use berserker stance and balance stance at once, or your little stability will get corrupted in to fear, then if you do use them at once, they can just strip your stability and minion knock back and you waste your berserker stance. not to mention you have runes of nightmare.

unless sure, you are a hambow that starts a fight when you are in necro’s face, not from range. that’s what most necro make their mistake, why would you fight a warrior on their point or if you are the one defending, you should start doing something as he gets in that 1200 range.

let me bring up a quote from another game’s forum.

it amazes me how someone can be so condescending towards others, when he himself has not tried the build yet, nor does he know anything about how the associated-skills work.

“can be easily overloaded with conditions once their defenses run out”

try play against any experienced necro without berserker stance(the defense) and only cleansing ire.
you will get overloaded with conditions in no time. and berserker stance can be easily counterplayed by walking away.

anyone still thinks that hambow is strong vs condition after lyssa nerf needs to get better. a warrior without berserker stance gets easily taken by condition if you know what you are doing, except i bet most of you don’t

i bet my 50 games necro can duel your warrior.

want to know how its done? a warrior without berserker stance, they overload you with condition(including chill and cripple) while you are on hammer, then avoid your easy to avoid crippled chillded earth shaker by simply positioning, dodging, minion knock back, blind ( or fear), then when you switch to longbow trying to combustive shot to cleans only half of the conditions on you, same thing, they can fear you or minion knock back, or if they feared you before ( which means you had to use stability in order to use combustive shot) then they can boon corrupt to chain even longer fear.

Seifer Thalaen.7869:

“We want to make pvp more enjoyable for casuals and pve oriented players, and this will bring more variety for pvp veterans too” Yeah…right…

yea right nop, the good players are so little in this game and they only play together.

i’ve see so many new teams formed then just get reckt by the same old team full of those “star” players over and over again thanks to how died this games pvp is.
and they just break up and won’t bother to find a team again.

easily the best thing happening right now.

ofc im talking about NA

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

and? are you trying to disapprove my point of warrior were at one point completely bad and out of pvp?
and what make you think warrior doesnt sacrifice damage for sustain.

The fact that even with the “nerfed” merciless hammer trait, strength runes, sigil of intelligence, and tons f easily stackable might warriors are still hitting 4-5k earth shakers (something my glass mesmer has a hard time pulling off in zerker gear but is still doable) and they are still extremely hard to kill thanks to you know the absolute highest armor in game and the second highest vitality in the game.

Warriors can do to much with too little effort. They have an effective build of everykind and every single one of their effective builds is still hard to kill (some harder than others.) and does absurd amounts of damage.

Lets not forget the ease that this class lets you play at.

Edit: Also warriors were sooo bad that they got buffed to absurdly OP status in just a few updates. And now over 9 months later they are still absurdly OP, and dominating EVERY single game mode. I can understand certain classes being more popular because of ease of play but they should not be effective at every single fracking thing.

do you know how easy it is to avoid a earthshaker? like, super extremely easy. and
no it does not hit 5k, it hits 3k on light golem with 25 might and i don’t remember hitting any thing 5k with earth shaker, you hit 5k with backbreaker and fierce blow on crit ONLY, and normally if your earth shaker hit 3 targets (including clones, AIs, i know mind blown) your backbreaker and fierce blow won’t crit. get your fact straight next time.

what can a warrior do too much with little effort you tell me, because i’m obviously clueless, yea, a effective build for everykind, every kind of what, do you even play high level tpvp or nothing, sure, Rom goes axe/sword, but that’s far point dueling purpose, everything else other then hambow are either completely useless or just useless. if you see anything else being useful, that only means you are at low tier.

also, warrior were bad for half a year or even more, do you know how long is more then half a year? do you know how long is half a year? 12/2, how much is that? and how long have any class been that bad for, oh wait, there’s no class have been that bad yet.

" they should not be effective at every single fracking thing." are we trying to balance stuff or what, wth is this thinking.

“dominating EVERY single game mode” are you high?
warrior is only effective amount noobs in pve, pve is a dps game and an easy one, there are classes that out dps warrior by a lot and for a long time already and that’s the reason i use those classes instead of warrior if i play pve. if you are dieing a lot in pve, doesn’t matter what class you are, you are noob, that’s the button line.

“dominating EVERY single game mode” again
seriously? being OK and viable sure, but dominating? look at the point i made above and think, also whenever i want to play some wvw, i go on my thief or engi.

and tbh why a mesmer is complaining about warrior, at least my friend (mesmer) doesnt have problem with warrior at all, he only loses to warrior only if outskilled, what he complaints all day are thieves and those complaints are reasonable and that’s mostly why supcutie rerolled to thief, oh btw, hambow kill noobs easily, and noobs complain the most about hambow, says sizer, rom, well they didn’t say it but they generally think this way but phrased differently and they laugh at all your hambow complain threads in the forum.

DonRobeez.3560:

Grouch being in the top 20 is not a good reason at all.

It’s about game design and being enjoyable.
Which for most people isn’t.

like 50% of the comments about balancing here have no idea what they are talking, i’ll just tell you that.
i bet devs can duel any of them blindfolded, seriously.

“oh this class is obviously this, because i say so, even tho i clearly don’t play one and i have no GD idea how its played and i’m obviously a hotjoin hero, low tier yoloqer or a dueling queen carried by build, but it’s like this and it’s op, blahblahblahblah, devs don’t know sh and i know everything.”

conti.5187:

Harkan.9017:

WvW has never been and will never be balanced. Please stop basing your nonsensical “balance” based on highlights of WvW videos in an attempt to prove a point. It’s not working.

Forget the video then, Warrior has great survivability, great mobility don’t give that excuse warrior with good mobility is only good for running coz thats not true if they have a gs or sword equip they have can have good mobility. They are also very easy to play and they are overshadowing many other professions.

warriors are overshadowing no profession but noobs.
if you really want to talk about overshadowing, thief overshadow mesmer is the way to say it.

not really, the official pvp tournament with 10000 chinese dollar.
i got 4th place with my team there, 1 month later still no clue where our rewards are.
and now that company try to pretend like it never happened.

Warrior’s weakness is it’s mechanic is too simple.
it does not have much options in X situation compare to other classes.
you would know what exactly a warrior would do in Z situation because he just doesnt have other choice.

also i want to mention that,
Warrior has the most weapon sets, but they just feel pointless, because non of them can bring anything different. Like before building momentum fix, greatsword longbow zerker build used to dodge more often, so it can sustain itself better in a fight since it’s rather squishy as a build and it felt different then a hambow or w/e. but now, almost every build feels the same and play the same, then hambow just do “the same thing” better then everyone else.

pretty much we are pigeon holded in to this play style and this set of weapon because of how simple warrior’s mechanic is and even tho warriors have the most weapon sets, it just felt pointless and wrong.

talking about simple and complexity.
why longbow is so important for warrior, not only because of cleansing ire, because it’s complex, it has fast blind, CC, burst, aoe pressure, and condition and the #2 skill if used at melee range is a rather strong damage dealer, all of these designs and utilities bring more interesting plays
all i want to say is that, it brings the complexity a warrior lacks.

then look at sword. it’s skills are not bad i would say, because when you look at sword from other classes, they have similar skills, but why sword build from warrior is so brainless, only because warrior’s mechanic is too simple it doesn’t have other options to provide a more skillful play to the set. regardless how simple minded the weapon set itself already is.

what’s the point of giving warriors all these weapon sets and serve for nothing better.
also look at longbow #2, it’s one of the best designed weapon skills for warrior by far, warriors need more skill like this.

you need to time your attacks, like when a s/d thief finished his 1st phase of #3 skill, during the small window of him using the 2nd phase of #3 skill, he has no evade, also count his dodges

Hello, devs
you said warrior should be sustained dps, which hambow PTV does it really well

but warrior has a lot of weapon sets, which means they can’t all have the same play style.
like you said, warrior can’t really move around, and dodge stuff, i think that GS is the perfect weapon for that, you should try to improve GS builds so it can dodge stuff more reliable in a fight, since you nerfed building momentum

BlackBeard.2873:

Oh yea: “Hard counters are not something we aim for”

Diamond skin, 12s Zerker stance, necro condi transfer vs. engie, thief hard-countering every zerker besides warrior

12s zerker stance, thief hard countering every zerker besides warrior? you mean besides medi guard?
oh my god, i hope devs don’t take these comments seriously.

thief is wvw roaming god.

yup, only hambow or nothing, sure you can go axe/sword for far point dueling, but w/e

i use gs cuz i feel like using one, both ToL winner wars uses gs setup from time to time cuz they feel like it, i don’t see the problem, it’s soloq.

jportell.2197:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

We are coming up on a year of warriors being a staple to EVERY high level PvP team. Balance means that across all teams and game modes (PvE, WvW, PvP) that all classes are represented equally. This is far from the case there are a few classes that are great in 1 or 2 game modes really outshining others. Then there are only two classes demanded in all game modes that is warrior and guardian. People don’t gripe about guardians being OP because they actually do sacrifice damage for sustain and survive.

and? are you trying to disapprove my point of warrior were at one point completely bad and out of pvp?
and what make you think warrior doesnt sacrifice damage for sustain.

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Warriors werent the best at launch, but not terrible. They were still played plenty, even in high level teams.

Regardless, the Warrior buff parade happend a year ago. Infact, Warriors have now spend more time being overpowered than “underpowered”. So, no, no pity train for you buddy.

sizer: almost every class can kill a hambow if played at proper level.
rom: sure if 10 noobs play together, ofc a hambow will own them.

now think again.

ohwait, you play wvw, i can’t believe you think warrior is over powered, because when i wvw, i go on my thief or engi, thief mostly, like it’s the most op roamer class in wvw period, even tho my main is war.
oh yea, i made an engi for wvw too, cuz TVC toooo goood.

Yah Hambows must be so terrible, thats why they are so incredibly popular in high-skill teams.
Some teams even taking two.

Did you even watch the recent ToL? Its obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, and you’re just making stuff up. So im done dignifying your nonsense with an answer.

saying hambow is not op automatically means its terrible. bad players these days have some extreme mentality. you know both sizer and rom won EU ToL right?

oh wait, you don’t play pvp so i assume you dont give a thing, “i watched a bit ToL, i see 2 warrior in a team, it must be insanely OP.” gg thinking, you are smart.

1st, thief’s mechanic is broken, i’m sure sizer would agree on that
2nd, there’s no counter play to steal, specially trickery steal being so strong.

if thief did not exist, the meta would have long shifted and mesmer would not be useless and supcutie would not have rerolled to a thief.

Terrahero.9358:

Simon.3794:

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

Warriors werent the best at launch, but not terrible. They were still played plenty, even in high level teams.

Regardless, the Warrior buff parade happend a year ago. Infact, Warriors have now spend more time being overpowered than “underpowered”. So, no, no pity train for you buddy.

sizer: almost every class can kill a hambow if played at proper level.
rom: sure if 10 noobs play together, ofc a hambow will own them.

now think again.

ohwait, you play wvw, i can’t believe you think warrior is over powered, because when i wvw, i go on my thief or engi, thief mostly, like it’s the most op roamer class in wvw period, even tho my main is war.
oh yea, i made an engi for wvw too, cuz TVC toooo goood.

DaliIndica.9041:

You used an advantage, and that means he must moan. Its his little way of saying “even though I am dead now, I would have beat you if not for your mate. I do not understand how teamplay works and most likely collect stamps. Please excuse my whining and carry on”

your thinking is toxic!

swap fight, he was fighting you, you almost lose, you run away, your teamate came in and fight him ( you swap with your teamate).

phaeris.7604:

Adrenaline should be used up if the move is evaded/missed. Cleansing ire should only cleanse if the move connects and does damage.

If a mesmer shatter is evaded the ability doesn’t come off cooldown, if a ranger pet ability doesn’t work it doesn’t get to be used again until it does. Adrenaline is just too forgiving for how quickly it generates and is used.

what, when a f1 skill misses, it goes on CD, just like shatter, pet skill w/e

do distortion goes on CD if mind wrack is missed? i think not. terribad argument.

zone.1073:

Simon.3794:

what do you mean, any beginner insert class player can hop into a match and perform 40% of insert class main. easy exp, thief, necro, engi, guardian, ele, ranger

No.

Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq--3tfpr2M

These 2 enemy warriors in the video (the second one comes in later, making it a 1v3 briefly) should be dead right from the get-go due to making so many mistakes. Within 20 seconds of engaging in the fight with me, they made so many errors that it would be difficult to list them all, but the fact is they didn’t die right away. They survived for an extremely long time when they should not have. The current design of the warrior is carrying these beginner players, when it should be player skill that carries the player – not the class.

Or, because you are celestial and they are ptv and cleric mace/shield sword/warhorn banner regen bunker which deals 0 damage? every classes can build around tanky and not die easily. personally i take down noob non bunker warriors fairly quick and no i wouldnt count a hambow as bunker.

jportell.2197:

And once again when it comes to “shaving” warriors were the only ones to get shaved every other class gets hit hard when they get nerfed. Sayyyyyy mesmer?

or did you mean that warrior was at the ground without the need of shaving?

maybe you should look at how long a warrior having been the worst of the worst, no other classes have been this worst state since release, BM’s bird were better then a warrior, and it took them like half a year to buff warrior up.

i got outplayed so hard.

zone.1073:

I dislike how adrenaline stays full if the warrior uses a burst skill and misses. That is asinine. Warriors need to be punished for missing their burst skills, otherwise there would be no risk or thinking involved in using burst skills (which is the current situation).

Cleansing Ire needs to be changed to cleanse conditions upon successful hits from burst skills. This means that skills like longbow’s combustive shot will only cleanse conditions if an opponent is affected by the AoE.

Example: warrior fires combustive shot at opponent A, but opponent A kites and evades the AoE. The combustive shot expends all of the warrior’s adrenaline, but no conditions are cleansed. After 3 seconds, opponent A walks into the combustive shot AoE = conditions are cleansed on the warrior.

Warriors need more incentive to actually think while playing. I’ve been playing GW2 PvP for 2 years on my warrior, and right now, a beginner warrior player with no skill can hop into a match and perform at 40% of my potential. That’s ridiculous.

what do you mean, any beginner insert class player can hop into a match and perform 40% of insert class main. easy exp, thief, necro, engi, guardian, ele, ranger

jportell.2197:

Lol warrirors have been “shaved.” And they are the only class that actually got adjusted with shaves. Every other class has been pounded into the ground like a giant hammering a post into the ground.

you serious? rifle celestial, fear necro, balthazar engi, steal sd thief, staff ele, dd ele.

I know what is not balanced and what is underpowered about my class, mainly because i’ve been play pvp for so long and being testing stuff out and also discuss stuff with known good players.

these players mostly will be less biased, because they play a lot of classes, they played for a long time, and they are less likely to be owned by one class and even they do they will know why.

Me myself, i main warrior, i’m totally aware what is OP and should be nerfed and what should be buffed, in order to improve the class as a whole in diversity, etc. (like how im totally for longbow 5 to have animation or healing signet being completely passive is bad design)

while most people only see one side of a class and then they think this is the whole class/ or they will look at every aspect of one class and think they can have them all in one single build or they can’t see the OP side of their own classes and only see it’s flaws, all of these end up with extremely biased arguments.

like when i’m trying to improve warrior in ways other then hambow, people will be like yea, but hambow so strong, so that means warrior is strong too, so warrior does not deserve improvement even tho other specs sucks, because hambow is strong ( that logic), they can stun and run real fast and be immune to everything endlessly, and like no other classes have immunity at all. ill be like, w/e.

also if you look at the interview of EU ToL winner, they laugh at how people in NA forum QQ about hambow and say that hambow is sure is good when killing noobs.
and no body should lose to hambow if played at proper level
(this is all quoted, personally i have no opinion around hambow, since the last patch where they nerfed it, because i did not play gw2 much.)

or, you can use your stun break and one dodge. instead of 2 dodges,

and even if you do use 2 dodges, then you just got the most out of your dodges.

because you won’t be dodge his auto attack, you won’t be dodging his 2 3 5.

I agree with every thing you say about the problems, especially mending should be 15 second CD.

warriors used to use healing surge and mending, not because they were good, only because they were a better choice compare to healing signet. tldr; they were kitten awful but still best amount what we had.

gesho.9468:

DaliIndica.9041:

I think its because the ranger has never had its day in the sun. Most of the other classes have had periods when they were amazing to play, so much overpower. Each class has had its day bar the ranger. Even warriors had a time when they were utterly junk and no one used them. Now they are hideously overpowered. Thief used to be the rage, now its a bit rubbish, still great for roaming but the tricks are gone.

wasnt last summer spirit rangers heyday? where in pax tournament entire comps were built around neutralizing spirit ranger?

also BM

DaliIndica.9041:

ranger is a class that you will have to be good at in order to get results

i alughed

gesho.9468:

DaliIndica.9041:

I think its because the ranger has never had its day in the sun. Most of the other classes have had periods when they were amazing to play, so much overpower. Each class has had its day bar the ranger. Even warriors had a time when they were utterly junk and no one used them. Now they are hideously overpowered. Thief used to be the rage, now its a bit rubbish, still great for roaming but the tricks are gone.

wasnt last summer spirit rangers heyday? where in pax tournament entire comps were built around neutralizing spirit ranger?

also BM

yea, i like the r80 finisher more,
no, i already am r80 after that rank exp patch.
the model in this one looks cool, but too small, less flashiness, less epicness because of the dragon being some kind of funny fire works.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Simon.3794:

im sure warrior had high dps back then, but when they bring warrior sustain up in pvp (cleansing ire, healing signet)
in exchange, they nerfed warrior damage for something like 30%.

a guardian with fury surpasses warrior’s damage by quite a bit.

They haven’t done any such thing lol. In fact they’ve consistently buffed overall warrior damage by giving them stuff like Dual Wield Agility, while guardians have overall remained mostly the same. If anything Guardians were the ones who got nerfed outside of hammer builds ever since they raised Symbol of Wrath CD to 20 seconds.

Lol dude, Berserker power and Heightened Focus used to be adept traits you know that, axe auto attack chain used to have damage spread over all hit you know that?

and also wat kind of idiot would believe Dual Wield Agility is any close to being decent, lol

Berserker’s Power also used to be 12% and Heightened Focus only 9%. And DWA being a 8-9% DPS buff (it’s not quite 10% due to aftercasts) right next to Attack of Opportunity being another 10% one point to the left is in fact a pretty big deal.

There’s a reason why the new solo DPS build is 6/6/0/2/0 now even though the old 6/5/0/0/3 build hasn’t been nerfed at all.

Berserker’s power used to be 12% damage and Heighteneed Focus used to me 9% crit chance, so what. they were adept traits, you can have more damage modifier traits back then while having these two. like Attack of Opporunity, +10% damage to bleed foes. i can’t even know how 65003 is not nerfed without heightened focus.

also, if you still believe that warriors damage did not fall down, then guardian out dps’ed warrior for a longer then what i thought, way before the time.

I don’t get it, not just warriors other classes have strong no skill brainless roaming builds too.

are you complaining only about warriors?

sure i do, i wish all of them are gone, including every classes else’s, then i’ll probably enjoy WvW roaming and dueling.

the mace shield gs warrior, all he needs to do is skill rotation and spam some random dodges, and he will avoid most of the damage, while killing most of the builds(ofc not everyone of them, only most). which is boring brainless and gaiiiii. i don’t even know why people feel good about themselves for using builds like this. just like PU mes, Shadow rejuv thief, MM necros, etc, also TVC builds.

that’s why dueling and wvw roaming in this game is so boring and not fun, because all these builds. carried so hard by builds, and in WvW, that’s just a whole new level of no balance in stats, builds, food, etc for dueling/roaming : runes of perplexity, TVC, crazy condition duration, insane stats stacking. you know how easy a condi build can kill some one who is not running -condi duration? like seriously.

Aza.2105:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Aza.2105:

Althalos.6734:

Warning – math ahead:
0 healing power Warrior with no traits and with Healing Signet = 362 health/second
Healing Signet: 362

0 healing power quad meditation, 30 Valor Guardian with Meditation Mastery and Monk’s Focus = 363.22 health/second
(base healing + Monk’s Focus) / ((skill cooldown * Meditation Mastery) + skill cast time)
Smite Condition: (0 + 1960) / ((20 * 0.8) + 0) = 122.50
Judge’s Intervention: (0 + 1960) / ((45 * 0.8) + 0) = 54.44
Contemplation of Purity: (0 + 1960) / ((60 * 0.8) + 0) = 40.83
Litany of Wrath: (1640 + 1960) / ((30 * 0.8) + 0.75) = 145.45 (not counting 20% damage to healing conversion)

Conclusion: A quad meditation guardian has the same sustain as a Healing Signet warrior if he uses his meditations whenever possible and the warrior denies him to gain extra 6 second 20% of damage healing from Litany of Wrath.

And to answer the OP:
Nothing changed and I can’t say they are more popular than before. PvE and sPvP premade teams will always take 1 guardian for utility, WvW groups will always use a mix of guardians and warriors as the main force with a few support mesmers and elementalists behind. It will stay this way as long as guardians will be stuck so deep inside group support/utility role or another profession ascends to their level.

You aren’t including adrenal health, every warrior in pvp takes this with cleansing ire….

Also, zerker guardian has no sustain they have burst healing. Not sure why you included litany of wrath. Because its completely theoretical, in the sense that you must land all of your attacks to make use of it. Its a better group fight heal than it is for single fights because of this. So I wouldn’t bother including it in your mathematical analysis if I were you.

Adrenal Health has been overestimated for ages now. It only tics once over 3 seconds and the vast majority of Warrior builds revolve around using your adrenaline constantly to not be eaten alive by conditions. It’s an OK trait, but nearly as amazing as some seem to thing it is.

Its just like Virtue of Resolve, but better.

why are you comparing a skill to a trait, and they are nothing alike to be compared.

Lotus.1682:

1. Equip Hammer
2. Equip Longbow
3. Call in friendly neighborhood thief to steal Lich Form’s stability
4. Proceed with the Hamboning.
5. xD

so you still have to 2v1 him. i wonder who can’t be 2v1ed.

any way, lich is a bit pain of kitten for warrior to handle, cuz you can’t just strip his stab, it takes some skill to duel a lich
stop using condi sword bunk, and use some real builds, even hambow takes more skill then that.

time your dodges and lb4 to avoid his AAs, and apply them weakness using hammer 2, then you can kill him before he kills you.

oh and heres a trick, whenever close, dodge to his back. then he will be forced to turn around = less time to spam them AAs.

lol dude your build looks nothing like sizer’s build except the point disputation.
i guess i can just try any point disputation and don’t even need to think about the utilities, traits and say every build who used this point disputation is mine.

i want pvp map in SAB style!