Guild Wars 2

RyuDragnier.9476:

Solid Gold.9310:

“The Nightmare Within”.

More like “The Living Nightmare” for Rangers.

And more proof that content being added renders the pet utterly and totally useless.

…you guys run through the tower with your pets on aggressive? Set them on passive, stow them, and run with Signet of the Hunt. Don’t try to kill anything other than the group event bosses in you way, and get to the center so you can reach the next section. The entirety of surviving the tower is dependent on you playing smart and avoiding fights whenever possible. Basically, the equivalent of learning to survive in WvW and in Arah (where you have to dodge a LOT of mobs).

The real nightmare is trying to get through the hallways filled with mines when your pet triggers them and you are being put in almost perpetual combat mode.

Benjamin.8237:

Xukavi.4320:

Multiple pets out at the same time is not possible.

Hyena f2

Anyway, ranger is an excellent dueling class, don’t know where you heard otherwise. By the sounds of it is a boring bunker build which sadly is one of our few effective builds. Am I the only ranger who hates how our good builds are overly passive?

Still waiting for a decent power build option that isn’t “roll zerk and hope to god they never close that longbow gap”

Maze.1902:

It really makes me wonder to see somebody is unsatisfied with warhorn-performance.

Warhorn is an incredibly boring weapon with a support skill that has too long of a cooldown for what it gives. You could drop in the inconsequential 1might and shave of 5 seconds on the cooldown easily since the fury and swiftness are all that matter.

4 is highly situational since you not only have to maintain line of sight, you can’t even turn away from the person or the birds stop hitting. It’s not even worth using against a thief or mesmer since they cloak so often which disables the attack completely. This all presumes you will be using it against an NPC or a target with low armor since most people I hit with it in PVT barely take 2.5k damage total and I have 3300 attack with 48 and 47 crit chance and damage.

Stalima.5490:

the ranger without the pet is like a warrior without the armour

I don’t recall warriors ever having problems with their armor being so heavy it weighed them down and made combat a chore.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

What I don’t understand is, why can’t people just play something else when they get bored with the game ? Why put the game down ? I will admit, at times I do get bored with the game and when that happens what do I do ? I play something else until I get bored with that game then I return to this game and repeat the process.

Tell that to Anet who decided that everything new is here for a few weeks and then gone forever. If they stopped doing this time gated LS crap then people wouldn’t feel like they were missing something forever by taking a break and coming back with a fresh outlook on the game.

FinalPatriot.8034:

Manekk.6981:

What was the question?

Trying to find out what build she might have been using.

Probably just the general condition spam tank. It’s about the only powerful build we have and the good condition clear was probably just their empathic bond ticking 10s and moving 3 condtions to the pet.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Heibi.4251:

coglin.1867:

Heibi.4251:

- Need a big damage buff in all weapons output that rivals warriors.

With the video evidence showing rangers soloing Lupi and other mobs faster then warriors can, and videos of damage parsed from the combat log confirming they can out DPS warriors, I question some of your comments.

The problem I see with that though, is that these max DPS situations are limited to very specific builds, with very specific weapons.

As well, I think your grossly over estimating warrior damage. Personally, I feel they need to adjust Axes, short bow, and long bow damage a bit, and great sword and MH sword are fine.

Notice, I said PvE is no problem. Lupi is PvE mob, and rangers are very good, if not perfect for PvE. Lupi is an AI that is easy to predict and rangers don’t have to take the close up damage that he and his minions can do, while the warrior must contend with being pointblank on target. I’ve soloed Lupi at least 3 or 4 times…I should’ve recorded it – if I had that set up. Kiting is the key to AI mobs.

Ranger vs Warrior: No matter the DPS difference in the beginning of the fight, once a warrior has closed the distance, and they do this very fast(as do many other classes), the ranger’s DPS means nothing. All the DPS you’ve done has hardly affected the warrior and he Hammers you down and keeps you down. Kiting doesn’t work very well on players, since they have ways to reach you and will use them at every opportunity.

On a side note:
Classes like elementalist, mesmer and necromancer should have a massive damage nerf with any and all melee weapons.
Elementalists are spell casters not fighters.
Necromancers deal in undead minions, disease and life force draining and are not fighters.
Mesmers are illusion masters and shouldn’t even be able to lift a great sword.

Some of it I agree with, but that last line was hilarious. In real life, even the most enormous two-handed swords didn’t hit more than 7 pounds or so.

I can grantee you most of the great swords in game would give the buster sword a run for it’s money.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Why should Anet read your post: Your just complaining your not suggesting a fix. You have a wall of text that if they were to read your post would just be taking away what little time they have to read helpful and constructive post.

You have a right to complain all you want. When you complain to much and don’t bring anything to the table people learn to just skip over your post.

I disagree with the op. We all know ranger have some issue but it not as kittenome people say it is. The ranger is the second most popular class. Those of you who cant melee and can’t use your pet properly just make it harder on yourselves.

I wish there was a GW2 Olympics classess would compete in varior catagories. I think rangers would have a higher metal count than any other class. But that’s just me.

Just because something is popular doesn’t make it good unless you think McD’s burgers are the best in the world.

Also, that player data was never given a context and was likely tabulated since launch which includes the Dark Times when roving herds of automated Rangers roamed the countryside in plain sight.

danielcole.3418:

I had a build back in guild wars 1 where I carried a staff and my whole skill bar was pet attacks. Why did A net not design the ranger so a strictly beast master build is possible in this game???

It wouldn’t be much use in pvp when you can’t bodyblock with collision. The enemy would walk right through the pet and kill you (the same way BM died in GW1 because you had to sacrifice ranger survival skills for pet attacks). We already have problems with keeping pets outside of enemy killzones in PvE without crippling dps so I’m not sure how well it would have worked.

The apparently had a BM in the works but scrapped it when they decided on the version of the game that we have now.

coglin.1867:

Substance E.4852:

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

No, not really. After leveling the last of my 8 professions to 80 at the first of the year, one thing I really learned, is that players like you, like to claim “actual combat understanding” when you don’t know jack about the other professions to make a comparison.

Particularly Your laughable comments about condition removal. Every player always tries to convince the sane people, that their current main is the worst profession at everything and subsequently needs to be buffed at everything.

Leveling to 80 =/= knowledge in said class when you can just craft/karma train your way to glory.

But hey, feel free to sing the merits of Ranger condition removal then. Just give me 5 minutes to go make some popcorn because I’m sure it will be a show to remember.

Only if I can use two dogs and watch Warriors flood the forums with QQ about Ranger knockdown chains being too OP and then swiftly facepalm when Anet inevitably nerfs it because of said QQ.

Rhyse.8179:

It works extremely well on high-precision pets like cats or birds. They easily stay up 50% more or twice as long as they do without it- long enough to keep pet swap from going into it’s death cooldown.

Obviously situational, but strong within it’s place.

It’s not terrible but there’s hardly a reason to bring it over Pet’s Prowess and Companions’ Might if you are focusing on the pet that much.

Those two make any cat hit like a freight train when you use them with the 1H sword for the extra might stacks.

Chokolata.1870:

Suggestions i would like to give as far as some weapon changes and trait chances are concerned :

Marksmanship :

-Eagle eye affects longbow cooldowns by 20% as well as its current benefits

-Predators instinct , instead of a 10 second cripple , it could be a 3 second immobilize with a 15 second cooldown

Skirmishing :

-Sharpened edges bleed duration from 2 to 3 seconds

-Carnivorous apetite also affects rangers allowing them to lifesteal on crit , perhaps for a value between 150-200 hp

-Honed axes , critical hits with axes give 1 stack of might to allies for 5 seconds as well as the current effect .

-Quickdraw , reduces shortbow cooldowns , conditions inflicted by the shortbow last 50% longer

-Trapper master and grandmaster trait merged , trap condition duration and buffed AOE given by default . New composite trait gives cooldown reduction and throw range .

-New grandmaster trait * , Skirmishers gambit , critical hits transfer conditions , 2 per hit , ICD 10 seconds

Beastmastery :

-Instinctual bond * minor trait changed from pet quickness on downed to removes 1 condition on pet swap *

Weapon abilities :

-throw torch does a daze/knockdown for 1.5 seconds

-bonfire physical component buffed

-lightning reflexes removes immobilize , cripple , chilled

-Sharpening stones cooldown reduced from 45 seconds to 30

-Signet of the hunt cooldown reduced from 30 to 15 seconds

-Protect me does not kill the pet anymore , clears 2 conditions as well .

-Guard gives a 20% reduced incoming damage taken to allies within the circle , circle expanded slightly

I’d give up all those goodies just to get that buff to Carnivorous.

coglin.1867:

Chokolata.1870:

after thinking about it i have come to the conclusion that the endurance trait nerf is tier1 BS . Why ? Ranger has no other defensive mechanisms other then dodge .

Do not post BS if your going to use the term “BS” in your post. This exact hyperbole is on every professions sub forum, because they are making endurance regeneration/vigor changes all over.

Chokolata.1870:

Warrior has vigor , blocks , mobility , natural health and toughness , condition removals . Thief has stealth and a lot of dodgs . Mesmer has clones and stealth.. the list goes on .

If the list goes on and on, then tell us. I would love to hear it. Rangers have stealth. Counter attack is tied with the longest block duration in the game, but at the second lowest cool down. We have utility skills to send damage to your pet instead of you taking it. You have passive traits to remove conditions that several professions do not have. You have a endurance regeneration trait, which nerfed or not, is something many professions do not have at all. The list goes on and on. The difference is that I can actually produce a list of factual ones, you on the other hand claim all other professions yet can only list three.

You think rangers have it bad. Look at this video about what they are doing to engineers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Hunter’s shot stealth is borderline useless in most situations because of the longbow’s current weakness in anything under 1000 range along with a lack of attacks that benefit from actually being in stealth. It’s a far cry from CnD or D/P leaps.

Lol our condition removal is some of the worst in the entire game. A serious condition build can have a player downed in the 10 seconds it takes for EB to actually activate. People use EB because we have nothing better, not because its ‘leet’ or anything like that.

Counter attack only blocks ranged skills, it only works against one melee attack and then send us into a long cast attack that is an opening for any fight against more than one target.

‘Protect Me’? Better not absorb more than the paltry amount of damage it takes to kill a pet or even give them any other commands at all.

For someone who claims “factual notes”, you seem to have a very lose understanding of how said skills work in actual combat.

Imaginos.3756:

why? it would just have crappy, low damage, slow, ineffective attacks compared to the other rifle skills other classes have….in keeping with the ranger weapon theme.

• Auto Attack: pea shooter…watch out you may put your eye out! 5% chance per shot to blind ranger for 5s.
• rubber bullet: fire a rubber bullet that makes a foe giggle and increases its damage vs the ranger by 200%
• gas blast: fires a 100 range bullet that drops a poison cloud…that isn’t a poison field.
• rifle butt of the joke: hit a foe with the butt of the rifle applying a 1/2 second daze…maybe.
• lock and load of crap: 25% chance to randomly teleport the ranger somewhere s/he doesn’t want to be in the current zone/instance. does 300% damage to foe if ranger teleports. 10 second cooldown.

Sad but true…

Don’t forget a shotgun blast that requires you to be next to the enemy to do the damage of one auto attack because we already have 2 and the more merrier they say…

lordhelmos.7623:

Sorry meant D/P permastealth blinders.

Wait em out till the 10th and then laugh as they try to relearn D/D.

I loved the Sb pre-range nerf. Now it’s mostly something I just whip out to mix it up once and a while.

Now it’s nothing but “900 is too short to keep them CC down and killed before they get away” or " kitten, if I’m gonna be this close I might as well just use 1hsword."

thefantasticg.3984:

Bastionhawk.7120:

If you constantly read the ‘con’ posts then you’ll start to have an overall negative feel for the way the Ranger plays…

Ha. I got that feeling from having to deal with a broken class mechanic.

I got that feeling when my wvw guilds and dungeon parties would ask me “Can you bring anything not a Ranger?”

CETheLucid.3964:

thefantasticg.3984:

CETheLucid.3964:

You came into the game knowing that.

Actually, I didn’t.

Okay, that’s a failure on your part. It was no shortage on Anet’s part to inform you that rangers would use pets.

And failure on Anet’s part to make pets work and to represent how well they actually function in endgame content early on.

When you start the game the pet is the greatest thing ever. It tanks the enemy like it’s nothing, holds aggro and deals huge damage to the point that you don’t even realize the ranger is hitting for a fraction of the other classes around it.

Most of us who bought the game at launch didn’t have forums to tell us the pets was crap from the get go, we had to spend months learning the ins and outs of the game and find out on our own slowly. So slowly you probably wouldn’t even discover it until you get denied a party spot because of your class or get curious about another one, roll into pvp mode and get blown away by the much higher damage per sec you deal without even trying.

We all knew the ranger had a pet. It’s in the create a character screen. What we didn’t know was how kitten it makes the whole class in any situation where it actually matters and how little Anet seems to care.

Soldiers gear with knights trinkets that have precision as the primary stat and zerk weapons with give you the tank to survive and ensure you are also doing the kind of damage that still matters.

Traits really depend on how much tank or spank you want but I personally run 20/20/20/10/0 and I do well enough to charge in with the head of the zerg and not die and still do decent damage despite the pet being turned to chum 3 seconds into the engagement.

thefantasticg.3984:

Linnes.2678:

thefantasticg.3984:

Not going to happen.

Besides, hammer is a heavy class weapon (just like greatsword)

You realize Rangers have access to Greatsword right?

Boy, look up there, I already retorted this.

But Mesmers, scholarly spell casters, wielding giant, steel surfboards on a stick is okay?

Brett.4305:

thefantasticg.3984:

Solandri.9640:

Durzlla.6295:

Just leave, you know nothing of the legendary bunny thumpers!!

For anyone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bunny_thumper

To put it in GW2 terms, GW1 rangers had a trait line which essentially decreased the cooldown on skills. That let the ranger use the hammer’s knockdown skill more frequently than other classes could. Combine it with an attack speedup skill, and a few other skills which increased damage/daze when you/your pet attacked a knocked down target. You could dish out a pretty devastating amount of damage while your opponent was prone on his/her rump.

That… sounds pretty freakin’ awesome.

Oh, it was gloriously funny watching the build do its thing.
Ranger+hammer=fear.
Now imagine that a warrior got all hammer attacks with a 60% CD reduction
THEN got more skills to do damage to knocked down foes on a CD reduction
THEN had a pet to do more damage to knocked down foes …

Expertise reduced the energy cost of attacks, not their cooldown. Rangers could spam hammer bash more than a warrior because the bunny thumper had perma IAS for most of the entire match and burning all your adrenaline means nothing when you only have one skill that uses any of it.

In the chest the key unlocks that we dont get access to until the end.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I don;t see the point of making Tengus playable. It would do more harm than good.

5 distinct races (ie, not humans, midget humans, humans with long ears and humans with green skins) is quite enough of a choice already and making a race which looks completely different to other races as models would just make making armor even more troublesome than it is already.

If people think armor looks bad on the charr, just imagine then with thinner bodies, longer limbs and feather tails. They would probably be even worse than Male sylvari in non-racial armor.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dante.1508:

Mathias.9657:

Vayne.8563:

It’ll be doing fine in a year or two as well.

Oh Vayne, you and your infallible factoids.

What i find humorous is a year or two isn’t very long in mmo terms..

GW2 will definitely be around in 2 years time, it be too much of a loss to just shut down a game which took astronomical sums to make that quickly.

In what form it would exist is another question though. It could end up going F2P or becoming a game which is very rarely updated, like how TERA is turning out to be.

Not many MMo’s have the constant, scheduled updates that GW2 has. They probably get as much changed in the same time frame, but they often do it in larger, more spaced out patches than gw2 does.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I like the idea of that Deadly, though with the last one I’d alter it so it’d cause a random condition each tick. I know that seems like it makes no sense, but think about it…there’s an arrow barrage suddenly getting thrown on you. It’d confuse you, cause you torment, probably cripple you, interrupt you, etc.

Ya, an aoe, pulsing interrupt would be incredibly OP when you apply multiple copies of the skill in a single area. I’m all for rangers becoming wvw powerhouses but this would kill the gamemode.

Hammer and focus would both be good additions to the ranger. We need a serious power build weapon and I just really love the amount of focus designs in the game and anything that leads to more utility/party skills is a great welcome on the ranger.

I mostly just want o run around with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courage , I don’t even care if the skills ended up sucking or being condition based.

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

Cufufalating.8479:

I wouldnt have any problem with pets being forced on us if ANet was willing to put in the time to make them work properly and effectively, but since Jon has essentially told us he knows they dont work as well as they could/should but they arent going to fix it any time soon.. they really should consider reducing their part in the rangers playstyle.

This has been my complaint as well. I want pets gone simply because ANet can’t be bothered to get them working in the first place. If they could get them to the point players were happy with them I’d be fine with them being a part of this class. But given they have the same problems they had a year ago, ANet has made it blatantly obvious in the other thread that pets aren’t on their radar, and pets are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this failure of a class, I’d say it’s time to wave the white flag.

Ather, May i ask how many “ok folks its time to quit” posts you have made now???
I mean no offense, but, if you gonna spread doom and gloom, could you just silently reroll something and not ruin the mood for everyone?
If you could, thank you.

I haven’t said I’d reroll to my knowledge. I have one of most classes and I still come back to this class. But I’m also not an ANet apologist like many on this forum. Feel free to label me a pessimist if you must, but your attitude of ‘lets just have faith and things will work themselves out’ didn’t work for the first year. Perhaps it’s time to be a little more critical.

I can’t think of a single reason for someone to make a new Ranger today. If you can then preach on brother.

Newbies or people who want to “catch em all!” with classes? It’s pretty well accepted and known that Rangers have handicaps in pve and WvW so most every veteran of the game isn’t going to make one for any serious gameplay.

Soilder.3607:

And I think that the greatsword auto-attack really needs a buff. I think we’re the only class where the greatsword has one of the weakest auto’s, damage wise. Not only that but there is a huge delay before and after power stab, making the entire chain take about 2 and a half seconds.

I feel the damage isn’t terrible for a chain that includes a 1sec dodge, but ya, chain needs that after-cast delay severely diminished or gotten rid of all together. A faster attack rate would counter the low damage and make up for the fact that virtually all the power of the weapon is loaded onto Maul.

I don’t get anet’s after-cast lust. It’s like there isn’t a single attack skill in the game that has an accurate timer tool tip because of all these hidden delays. The bear would actually be pretty good if it really attacked every .5 seconds instead of 1+ seconds.

Brett.4305:

The thief class is being “de-vigored” also.
A nerf in a game is not a big deal.
The rationale by the devs for a nerf-when it makes no sense-
is a big deal.
The game designers make the NPCs smarter and hit harder while
taking away the tools that players use to survive.

Thief is losing some mobility but gaining a massive increase in initiative regen rate.
I don’t feel the sword nerf will be that vbad but I can see their frustration when Anet’s treating thief sword like the ranger shortbow.

thefantasticg.3984:

Substance E.4852:

Guardians and warriors have access to incredibly powerful burst damage and can use combat tactics that rely on killing the enemy before they get killed vs the ranger that has to rely on outlasting the opponent because we have “sustained damage”..

LoL

Every class has “sustained damage”!! It’s called auto attack!

Makes me laugh every time I see somebody say this.

Pretty much. People loved Rob for coming here and talking shop with us but the second I saw him drop that gem on us I pretty much stopped paying attention to anything he had to say.

adam.8692:

Summary: Please buff my class because my single skill (barrage) can’t 1-hit kill anyone.

Your reductio ad absurdum is beyond silly for several reasons.

Miyu.8137:

Durzlla.6295:

i’m really hoping this nerf doesn’t make my glassy ranger a dead man walking… my entire survival is from keeping a distance and dodging, and i have a very strong feeling this will gut the whole dodging thing… And if they’re gonna be removing evades how about they drop a few evades from thieves?

This.

Also dodge role is one of the few active defensive abilities which shows some player’s skill. Instead of forcing ppl to show a little bit of skill they nerf endurance regen and buff bark skin, passive defensive ability. So yeah, lets everybody make condition bunker ranger to just stay still and spam conditions.

Wonder where they came to those ppl who making the “balance”.

It’s also the reason our melee is plagued with skills meant to avoid damage rather than deal it since we’re expected to let degen do all the work for us.

The dialogue in the Grove between a sylvari and asura gate team over how the sylvari broke his golem’s brain by asking it about it’s mother.

Thanksgiving is just pregaming for Christmas nowadays anyway. The most accurate thing they could do is start Wintersday activities irritatingly earlier and earlier every year.

Can’t get much more authentic than that.

Rozbuska.5263:

Meglobob.8620:

Why do players like you after destroy anything half decent?

Confusion is not a problem.

Your just destroying the game with your nerf it attitude.

Try adapting your build and l2p.

Srsly? Perma 25 confu stack what hits for 7k+ on every action and you say it isnt problem? I am sure you forgot take your pills today because there isnt any other explanation how you can write something so absurd.

Just someone who uses them and is so reliant on the build that they can’t even consider going back to a fully functioning version of the game where they didn’t exist at all.

But their balanced, totally…

Taku.6352:

Substance E.4852:

Miyu.8137:

I would just add that the current state of barrage is rather against the ranger. Try to put barrage on retaliation buffed enemy. You will end up recieve more dmg from retaliation then you actually do with barrage itself, which is ridiculous. Small dmg but long duration (12 waves) is just horrible mechanic.

I lose, on average, about 9-10k health using barrage on an enemy zerg of 40+ just from the fact that every tick wither hits a guardian or hits his buddy that’s guaranteed to be buffed with retal.

That just shows how broken retaliation itself is. It should deal back a certain % of dmg instead of preset amount. That way it would be useful against heavy hitters and not horribly overpowered against weapons that hit faster.

More like it needs to have a built in cool down on the effect to prevent channeled skills, especially aoe, from disproportionally being effected. If you make it scale it will either be too weak vs channeled skills to matter or will be too high vs large damage packets to the point of being OP against spike damage. The thief class would die overnight if they took a % of a backstab hit rather than a couple hundred damage per stab.

The biggest problem with barrage isn’t that it’s channeled vs retal, its that I will likely proc retal 50-60 times from 12 waves of five hits each.

Einlanzer.1627:

OMG OP for about the thousandth freaking time, the name ranger has nothing to do with using ranged weapons, it refers to roaming ranges of land, i.e. like a scout or a warden. Seriously, how can so many people not know this? It’s like an elementary level vocabulary word.

Regardless, Rangers are unparalleled archers and no other profession does as much DPS at range as the Ranger does. L2P.

I’ll just leave this here again since people can’t be bothered to read past posts it seems.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

At one point in development, according to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, the ranger profession of the original Guild Wars was split into many different professions, notably the warden and the marksman. Eventually, with only marksman remaining, who only possessed only the aspect of ranged weaponry, was combined with already scrapped elements of warden and beastmaster, and renamed the result as ranger for the sake of the original series.

We can all argue what the word “Ranger” means in the general context of fantasy all we want but it’s obvious anet slapped it on with no real intent on it meaning anything other than attracting former GW1 Rangers, a class that was 100% archery.

Xaylin.1860:

Solandri.9640:

Yes I did the math. That’s why I posted what I did.

But if you have Vigorous Renewal, you also get the 5 point trait Natural Vigor for free:
((.1 * 5) + (.05 * 1.25 * 15)) / 20 = .071875 per sec
or 13.9 sec to fill endurance
or 8.625 dodges per minute

Okay… I missed that one.

Solandri.9640:

Now look at warrior with Signet of Stamina. 50% constant endurance regen.
.05 * 1.5 = .075 per sec
13.3 sec to fill endurance
9 dodges per minute

Now look at Guardian with 5 Honor trait. Say they average 1 crit every 3 seconds. So 5 sec of vigor followed by 3 sec with no vigor
((.1 * 5) + (.05 * 3)) / 8 = .08125 per sec
12.3 sec to fill endurance
9.75 dodges per minute

Do you see the problem here?

The problem is that you are looking at other classes for evaluating the changes announced for the Ranger. Classes are different and there will always be differences. My point was that the change actually does not make such a big difference for the Ranger himself. At least I would expect something more significant when considering all the hate which the preview caused.

Solandri.9640:

Heavy armor class with 5 point trait = 9.75 dodges per minute
Medium armor class with 5 point trait = 7.5 dodges per minute

Heavy armor class with utility skill = 9 dodges per minute
Medium armor class with 10 point trait and specific heal skill that gives up the class’ best condition removal = 8.6 dodges per minute

How does giving the heavy armor classes more dodges than a medium armor class make any sense?

First of all, you are comparing nerfed skills/traits with unnerfed ones. ANet already said that they are looking into Mesmer and Guardian traits but did not decide on how to procceed yet. Therefore, you can also expect adjustments to the Warrior although they might wait to see how the Hammer nerfs play out.

Second, there is absolutely no point of listing the armor class in reference to dodging. Armor is probably the least important factor when it comes to damage mitigation. Even if you consider the health pool in which case the Guardian could demand more endurance than the Ranger. Guardians and Warriors might also point at the evades Rangers have. This way of argumentation is a very bad place to go. Fact is, the changes to the endurance regenerations for Rangers actually aren’t that bad. Fact also is, that there will be nerfs for all classes even if not announced yet.

Guardians and warriors have access to incredibly powerful burst damage and can use combat tactics that rely on killing the enemy before they get killed vs the ranger that has to rely on outlasting the opponent because we have “sustained damage”.

They shouldn’t be able to dodge more because they simply don’t need to.

And you are absolutely right, they haven’t said whether they will do anything to the other classes. They have, however, explicitly said they plan on nerfing the ranger’s ability to regen stamina with no plans to adjust comparative skills on other classes. That is what we have to go on so that’s what’s worth discussing right now and it’s silly to dismiss it because you have a hunch that it’s all pointless.

Miyu.8137:

I would just add that the current state of barrage is rather against the ranger. Try to put barrage on retaliation buffed enemy. You will end up recieve more dmg from retaliation then you actually do with barrage itself, which is ridiculous. Small dmg but long duration (12 waves) is just horrible mechanic.

I lose, on average, about 9-10k health using barrage on an enemy zerg of 40+ just from the fact that every tick wither hits a guardian or hits his buddy that’s guaranteed to be buffed with retal.

Brega.6920:

Holland.9351:

kitten nic Touch.7960:

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor. Reduced the increased endurance regeneration from 50% to 25%.

This really ruins it for me. Again a big nerf out of nowhere.

Let me add it to the list:
- endurance regen nerfed from 50% to 25%
- Healing Spring no longer gives vigor each tick and water field duration reduced
- shortbow nerfed from 1200 to 900 range
- damage skills from many pets reduced by 50%
- pet leash range reduced drastically
- “Search & Rescue” can’t revive dead players anymore
- quickness on pet swap moved from Minor Adept to Major Grandmaster (swapped with worthless trait)
- “Guard” no longer works up or down ledges
- “Signet of the Beastmaster” moved from Adept to Grandmaster.

I probably missed some.

Other unsesolved issues:
- Guard is a shout, but has a 1 second cast time
- Nearly all AoE attacks hit 3 targets instead of 5
- Require grandmaster traits to make signets, shouts, traps and spirits useful.
- Require grandmaster trait to have relatively useful condition removal.
- “Sic ’em” gets cancelled if the pet is told to activate another skill or told to change target.
- Signet of Renewal fails if pet is out of range.
- a healing skill (Healing Spring) is the only reliable on-demand condition removal rangers have.
- pets f2 often doesn’t activate or very late.
- sword auto-attack has too many leaps and makes the character feel out of control and prevents dodging.
- shortbow auto-attack bleed requires a flank.
- longbow Barrage too long cooldown.
- longbow requires to spend 50 trait points to get its basic traits (20% cooldown, piercing arrows, 1500 range)
- skirmishing has too many bad traits.

If these were fixed/changed we might actually be getting somewhere with this class.

While this is a very good list, I would suggest that it is missing 4 nerfs that I consider to be the worst of the lot:

1. The Great Sword nerf after bwe1. The damage output of this weapon was destroyed with this nerf, and while in the intervening months was buffed back up some, it still falls short of what it used to be.

2. The spirit nerf after bwe3 which gutted ranger spirit builds. Ever since this nerf spirits have been a mess, and while they have been buffed up some they still need work.

3. The removal of our ability to res our defeated pets, while still balancing the Ranger around the assumption of 100% pet up time.

4. The Short Bow “animation fix” that seriously impacted the weapons damage output.

To me the current state of the ranger is better viewed by what Anet has nerfed over time vs what they have buffed/band aid fixed, and the nerfs in my opinion are more significant.

This really illustrates the reason I get so bemused whenever we get even decent buffs to skills/traits. We’re a class that barely functions as is and then they consistently nerf us with no offset like we are some unholy juggernaut of pvp that must be stopped at all costs while giving warriors stuff like dogged march and healing sig simply because they cried and cried about how they can’t be amazing at 100% of the game until the devs caved and gave in.

I’m still waiting for some decent ranged aoe on the class that doesn’t rely on condition damage to have any effect. The only long range skill we have is barrage and it deals such laughable damage I mostly just use it for the cripple and to get tags for bags in wvw.

Terkov.4138:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

The ranger is the beastmaster class if you are playing a ranger and want to only be an archer then you have picked the wrong class.

Ranger is most archerish class avaible, so ppl who want archer will choose it and ANet even encourages it with class description, arts and well known medium armor + pet + bow combination.

And it’s not BM class. It’s pet class. Just as GW1 ranger was pet class or WoWs hunter wa pet class. Just because thief is stealth class it doesn’t lock him in stealth builds, right?

GW1 Ranger wasn’t a pet class if you didn’t want it to be and the Necromancer was way, waaaaaaaaaaay more a minion class in PvE.

The only time the pet ever saw use was in borderline OP Bunnythumper builds.

The rest of the time you could just forget the Beastmaster skill line even existed, never equip your pet, and do just fine or even better in many cases.

Jos.8793:

Substance E.4852:

slingblade.1437:

Ranger certainly has lots of problems and I agree to the extent that they should be deadly with bows, but the RANGE in Ranger is not a reference to range of attack, it’s in reference to a fighter who roams the woods and fields.

The name is arbritrary and only tacked on because there was a Ranger in Gw1 that only used bows.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

At one point in development, according to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, the ranger profession of the original Guild Wars was split into many different professions, notably the warden and the marksman. Eventually, with only marksman remaining, who only possessed only the aspect of ranged weaponry, was combined with already scrapped elements of warden and beastmaster, and renamed the result as ranger for the sake of the original series.

Sorry but english kinda hard in the morning

Does it say that ranger class is the compilation of some leftover / abandoned elements gathered into making a class which would seem familiar to GW1 player ?

It would explain why our trait trees look so empty and why it’s so hard to find a role in team play …

It actually reminds me twins movie : “I’m a genetic garbage”

Ya, they pretty much mushed 3 failed classes together to create something they new would drag in GW1 Ranger players and anyone looking for the Hunter/archer archetype.

Problem is the class plays like one made up from 3 taped together also.

slingblade.1437:

Ranger certainly has lots of problems and I agree to the extent that they should be deadly with bows, but the RANGE in Ranger is not a reference to range of attack, it’s in reference to a fighter who roams the woods and fields.

The name is arbritrary and only tacked on because there was a Ranger in Gw1 that only used bows.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger

At one point in development, according to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, the ranger profession of the original Guild Wars was split into many different professions, notably the warden and the marksman. Eventually, with only marksman remaining, who only possessed only the aspect of ranged weaponry, was combined with already scrapped elements of warden and beastmaster, and renamed the result as ranger for the sake of the original series.

Holland.9351:

Jow.4385:

Agility Training: Pets move faster.

Change to:
Agility Training: Pets move faster. Melee pets teleport behind your target (10 sec cd)

40% speed instead of 30% would be great too.
30% is less than Swiftness buff and 40% is the same as Sic ’em utility.

It’s also only 5% more than SoH which so many already use anyway.

50% would be much better and hardly game breaking since they reduced leash range by so much.

Durzlla.6295:

Substance E.4852:

shimmerless.4560:

Rangers are quite welcome to have their half-minute boons back so long as in return bow skills stop tracking us through stealth!

Maybe play a class that doesn’t need to hide behind clones and stealth? Sorry we have ONE skill that actually works during your frequent jumps into god mode. I’d play you the song of my people on the worlds smallest violin but it’s being restringed.

God mode? All you need to do as a ranger his hit F1 on the real Mesmer, boom you will FOREVER know which is the real one, they stealth? So what don’t command your pet, the second they reveal themselves your pet is back on them trying to rip their jugular out.

Rangers are one of the best profs to fight a Mesmer on because they 1) don’t rely on boons 2) have a lot of evades and mobility and 3) have a pet that always shows you the real one.

The red target is removed when the target stealths, so, ya, not the Mesmer “Achilles Heel” you think it is. And while pets don’t lose aggro from stealth, they do have a tendency to flail around like a moron when said target moves around at all making them a less than reliable indicator of which of the 3-4 mesmers right next to each other is the real one.

I don’t generally have a terrible problem fighting them, it’s just silly to see one complain about 1 skill on our bar being annoying when they stealth.

Chokolata.1870:

I also find it kind of funny that they are using the too much endurance from traits bit * when warriors can get so much more sustain from just healing signet and a 15 point trait . This is on the level of 600 hp/sec without any healing power gear . Obscene . Hypocrits

Ranger’s just aren’t allowed to have anything that make’s people go “Wow, that’s really useful/good!”

I mean, we used to back when Panthers we worth a kitten , Sb was a sinew powered minigun, and pets could climb wvw walls but we all know how that stuff turned out.

Durzlla.6295:

Solandri.9640:

Bri.8354:

Dodges play such a vital role for non-melee rangers that this will without a doubt have a huge impact.

The weird thing is that they seem to be trying to reduce the endurance regen on only the medium armor classes. The light armor classes are actually getting their endurance regen buffed. And the heavy armor classes’ endurance regen isn’t being touched at all (warrior signet of stamina = 50% regen, guardian 5 Honor trait = 100% regen for 5 sec after a crit).

It seems to me if you’re going to nerf endurance regen, the first classes you should you should nerf it on are the heavy armor classes. Then the medium armor classes. Yeah medium armor classes dodge a lot. That’s the whole point – you don’t wear heavy armor so you can’t just stand there and tank the hits, you dodge them instead. But this change seems to be making a weird game where the heavy armor classes can dodge more than the medium armor classes. Not only does that not make sense from a game mechanics standpoint, it doesn’t make sense from a reality standpoint. Dodging in heavy armor?

I mean sure, we do have a lot if evades, but as you said we can’t kittening take the hit we have to evade it!

Idk why they don’t just push the 50% regen back to 15pts or better yet just buff that kittenty engi grandmaster trait, I mean kitten, no one takes it cause you can get perma vigor so easily as an engi….

I have a feeling they just sit in the office and watch video’s of nothing but degen Rangers and Sword thieves and think “man, this is OP as kitten. That GS warrior can’t land his 100b at all!” and figured a nerf was in order.

By definition we should be the most agile and athletic class in the game. If they just wanted us to be “man with dog” then they should have named the class Beastmaster so we wouldn’t keep expecting things that promote active gameplay.

Sick em won’t do much to help fight the current plague of D/P Shadow’s Rejuv thieves.

Just ignore them until the 10th when they get sent back to the dark depths of Nerfdom where they belong.

shimmerless.4560:

Rangers are quite welcome to have their half-minute boons back so long as in return bow skills stop tracking us through stealth!

Maybe play a class that doesn’t need to hide behind clones and stealth? Sorry we have ONE skill that actually works during your frequent jumps into god mode. I’d play you the song of my people on the worlds smallest violin but it’s being restringed.