Guild Wars 2

Take a break and don’t blame people.

If you’ve been playing for a while, you’re probably tired and is the cause of losing. Most people have the tendency to blame teammates when they play badly, especially when they are tired (and couldn’t realize they are playing badly.)

Most human can’t concentrate on high level playing for more than 3h

The game is much more fun!

I think this thread shows the difference between two factions: the one who can adapt to the fast pace combat, and the one who like to 1v3 poking each other. Good thing this thread shows that a lot of people enjoy the new meta

In LoL/Dota, map awareness is very important. If you get caught surrounded or 1v3, you will die instantly. You should be aware of/predict where the enemies are going. The game is much more strategic than just slamming to each other and spam buttons.

Cheers!

This is my favorite meta! I dislike bunkers poking each other on point. In this meta, you can’t really 1v2 or 1v3, you gotta run. And that’s good!

Complaining about Ele burning on a Diamond Skin build only shows that you’re outplayed. The biggest burning from Ele is from Ring of Fire, which does 3 stacks on burning when you walk in and out of it.

The important part? It applies zero/no burning stack on cast! In order to get burned, you must walk in and out of it. I have seen people stayed on it for full duration, died, and whispered complain about OP burning Ele. It’s like a player keep running into guardians Ring, got knocked down 3 times, died, and QQ complain.

A Diamond Skin Ele has no trait for burning. If people keep walk in and out of the Ring of Fire, they deserve to be defeated. As Grouch said: don’t do it.

You can complain about Diamond Skin; however, don’t QQ about burning in the same sentence. It only shows that you’re outplayed.

I hardly queue anymore because Stronghold is gone. I want it back. Conquest is too boring.

online.1278:

I am pretty sure this is what anet really need to fix. Since battle standard has like longest cd time and there isn’t any banner cd time decrease from its trait, anet need to fix that it can just rez anybody regardless of downed ally got poison or low hp or whatever. Well it has to becuz it can be interrupted easily as well.

No, it’s not a bug. It allows for counter play. Battle Standard shouldn’t be an “I win” button. It can drastically change who will win a team fight.

Don’t use it for low HP teammates who has poision (below 1/3 HP). I always target the teammate (and sometimes fake a cast—using weapon stow—in case the enemy want to interrupt, or the Ele teammate wants to mistform).

Cele Ele gets one shot by Mesmer too. I’m not complaining, just stating the fact. Ele has good sustain, but a coordinated burst from stealth of 2 Mesmers can drop any class.

People love Stronghold, including me.

If you don’t like it, don’t queue it. Problem solved!. Just like no one forces a hater to play WvW or PvE.

The Arcane Shield trait should proc at 75% instead of 25%

It’s meh.

/15 chars

Swiftness won’t save Tornado.

Let’s make it have 5 skills:

1. damage enemies around. Cooldown 0.5s, damage around 1.25 times Lightning whip.
2. pull enemies into the tornado (knock down). Cooldown 5s.
3. push enemies away from the tornado (knock back). Cooldown 5s
4. blind enemies around. Cooldown 5s.
5. exit the Tornado form. Leave a mini tornado in place for 10s. The mini tornado will use the skills above, with a reduced AoE.

Tornado form should also have super speed during the duration.

Tissitra.4153:

Sunshine.5014:

I question the honesty of the people who say Necro/Engi/Ranger are bad in this meta. Bunker MM Necro with constant boon strip can win a decent D/D Ele 80% of time. Condi spirit Ranger can own a lot of classes including Mesmer/Ele. People just don’t dare to try weird/unpopular builds, and then complain that other classes suck. or they try to act like victims to get buffed.

I talked about burning guardians and physical Warrior right after the patch landed. At that time, people still complained about how underpowered guardians/warriors are, because they got stuck in the old mindset. They didn’t try burning guardians or rampage. Now everyone complain about burning guard and rampage.

Quit playing the old style Necro/Ranger, and you will see how strong they are. Use your creativity.

Putting it bluntly: MM and spirit ranger are complete trash in group play. Sure, they can do well in a one v one but so what? They have no way to escape and go down quickly when focus fired. They also don’t involve any actual gameplay – nothing they do will make an actual difference. They are like npcs that just happen to be controlled by a player.

Just go play spirit ranger with immobile spirits for 20 games in orgaized play…

We did, and we won about 80% of our games. I even have screenshots of salty Mesmers complaining about dying to our Ele burning (without realizing that they died to our Ranger burning, not Ele)

People don’t realize the Ranger burning can cover the whole point. Most people just pew pew 1-2 buttons with power ranger build, and don’t try new stuffs.

DeWolfe.2174:

… If you go all in for defense, you should be pretty much indestructible…

No.

That boring bunkers poking each other on the point for 10 minutes? Kitten no.

No one should be indestructible.

I question the honesty of the people who say Necro/Engi/Ranger are bad in this meta. Bunker MM Necro with constant boon strip can win a decent D/D Ele 80% of time. Condi spirit Ranger can own a lot of classes including Mesmer/Ele. People just don’t dare to try weird/unpopular builds, and then complain that other classes suck. or they try to act like victims to get buffed.

I talked about burning guardians and physical Warrior right after the patch landed. At that time, people still complained about how underpowered guardians/warriors are, because they got stuck in the old mindset. They didn’t try burning guardians or rampage. Now everyone complain about burning guard and rampage.

Quit playing the old style Necro/Ranger, and you will see how strong they are. Use your creativity.

I think this is a must read for gw2 pvp players. Maybe get it sticky? Just replace all the occurrences of Street Fighter with GW2.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

I’m confused. Ele only has one weapon set equipped. You cannot swap weapon during combat.

Guys, give them time. They fixed a bunch of bugs. They need to fix the bugs first before attempting to balance. Trying to balance the game before bugfix is hard and futile.

Give them another month to work on it. In the mean time, instead of complaining, you can read this:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

I just had this problem too. Using the following works:

“…\Guild Wars 2\Gw2.exe” -assetsrv assetcdn.101.arenanetworks.com:80

phokus.8934:

Mesmer burst is fine. We are already to the point where people need to learn to play.

The only thing I’d change is burning. But only a bit – tone it down (damage? Stacks per class?) And this patch is amazing and what GW2 is all about.

Burst is fine.

Burst from stealth with no counter play is not.

I love the new damage, feel free to increase Mesmer’s sustain damage, but the stealth burst should be nerfed.

Morwath.9817:

1) Mesmers
-> Burst is a bit too high for new survi abilities Mesmers have gained.
2) Burn damage modifers
-> Fixes too much damage on Cele Ele.
-> Fixes too much damage on Burn Guards (I don’t really think it’s too much but w/e).
3) Warrior
-> ROMpage.
4) Thief
-> Backstab crits are a bit too high.
5) Bug fixes
-> over 9000 nades etc…

+1. This list is good.

It’s not Ele/Guard/Ranger that need nerf. It’s the burning damage/burning duration that need tweaking. The condi burst from Ranger is very good too.

Omg I love the rule! Bo3 using 3 different classes.

Is there anything like this for NA?

0.02. Stacks don’t count.

They should have the balance changes monthly

People need to learn how to read the death report. 24 burning hits doesn’t mean it’s 24s. One hit is added per application. If the burning duration has fraction, an extra hit is added at either the start or at the end. That whole 24 ticks takes less than 5s.

Look at this:
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/gw057bwoz63gpvx.jpg

Ele burning 35k. It is definitely OP, right?

Until you see the 3 hits Burning speed only deal 500 damage each. That ele is using a pure Burning Duration build. People need to realize what’s OP is neither Ele nor any other class. It’s also not Burning. It’s the Burning Duration runes/sigils, which is a 65% raw damage multiplier. Without the Burning duration runes/sigils, the above burning would be 21k, which is not OP anymore.

No, don’t change protection. Nerf burning duration runes/sigils instead. Those are the real culprits: 65% damage multiplier.

With all the discussions where people complaining they got killed in 1s, and people praising the fast pace game, I want to ask a different question.

What is the target time to kill (TTK) that the balance team should aim for?

This can help the devs a lot by giving better signals on how to balance/tweaks

Please answer the 3 questions, assuming all skills are equal.

1. what do you think is a good expected TTK for 1v1, min, and max
2. how about 1v2?
3. how about 1v3?

My thoughts:

1. TTK for 1v1 should be around 15-30s. Min 5s (fights shouldn’t last too short, reduce insta burts). Max 60s (fights shouldn’t last too long)
2. TTK for 1v2 should be around 10-15s. Min 3s (2 people should win faster). Max 30s (people should die faster in 1v2)
3. TTK for 1v3 should be around 10s. Min 3s (3 people don’t necessarily kill faster than 2 because of block/aegis/invul). Max 20s (basically people should die as soon as there defensive cooldown are out)

What do you think should be the target TTK?

The first screenshot proves that the people complaining about Ele’s burning, they are not fighting cele Ele, they are fighting Ele built dedicatedly for burning. Look at the 3 hit of burning speed that barely do 500 dmg per hit.

Now that’s clear, focus on the right fix. Those pure Burning builds are strong because they got a raw damage coefficient: Burning duration runes/sigils. That 37k will be around 22k without the Burning duration runes/sigils, and that’s much more managible.

When they lose, their MMR will reduce. We just need to ensure the starting MMR is low.

People keep repeating that anecdote about a mythical Ele 1v4 people and win. I’d love to watch a video of that.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Sunshine.5014:

sinject.4607:

Sunshine.5014:

If you request nerf to Burning, then do the right thing and request nerf to the Burning duration runes/sigils. Just by equiping thoses, you increase your damage by 65+%.

A damage build can only increase damage by about 10% through runes/sigils. For conditions build, runes/sigils carry a significant damage coefficient (65%) now it’s ridiculous. It was fine before the patch since conditions do not stack. Now that conditions stack, it’s the whole reason why Burning deals so much damage. Imagine you can equip a set of rune and increase your power damage by 50%. Of course, that’s OP.

We need to change:

• Balthazar runes: 15% burning duration
• Burning sigil: 10% burning duration

That’s still a raw 25% increase on damage, but it would be better than 65%.

TL;DR: I don’t agree with needing burning, but if you insist, ask for the right nerf: Burning duration runes/Sigils.

the way burning works now (stacking) is a bigger problem than duration sigils/runes alone. i think what needs to be done is what was done with confusion, split it between PvE (stronger variant) and PvP (weaker, more player oriented variant). because as it stands right burning seems to be stupidly easier to apply than either poison, bleeds, or torment yet does drastically more damage than any of them at the same time. burning needs a nerf.

You’re saying that removing the 40% damage coefficient is not a big nerf enough? My condi guard can deal 40k burning damage in 5s. Without the burning duration, I lose like 15k damage. That’s a lot of nerf already. I think burning is fine now. It’s just the coefficient is ridiculous.

If you only request nerf to Burning directly (like if ANet listen to you and nerf burning by 10%), you will still encounter sick burning damage because build like my condi guard can still put out tons of burning with the 65% raw increase.

Nerf the right thing

The problem is the burning damage, not the duration lol.

Burning stack now. Burning duration directly multiplies the damage. Don’t believe me? Use the exact same burning build without runes/sigil and tell me how it goes for you.

Supreme.3164:

ronpierce.2760:

Supreme.3164:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Supreme.3164:

Let’s stop hiding behind words and let’s prove the facts..NOW! I have my friends online, prove the community how you 1vs4 condi people on a cele diamond ele, 100g if you win

Because showing the math isn’t “facts.”

Diamond Skin really needs another rework to be a lot less binary. Right now, if you are a condition build, you auto-lose to Diamond Skin. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. You just lose.

If you are a Power build, however, it might as well not exist. It’s a completely worthless Grandmaster, then.

It needs a rework to be less binary.

Condition damage needs a rework too!

-Protection must work against condi
-Weakness must work on condi
-Toughness must work on condi

Diamond skin is a cheese counter to a cheese playstyle..sorry I feel no pity

Well, at least you’re being honest now. That’s the first step. I agree, conditions should have to rely on more than a single stat for optimal damage, and should be affected by Protection. However, resistance should also not exist. There’s a lot of “shoulds”, but it doesn’t change the honest point that with what we have, and even if conditions were better designed, it’s a hard counter that doesn’t belong in the game. I want my “Immune to power damage above 90% HP” on my Necro. That’d be grand.

I think it has been made clear by the entire ele community that diamond skin needs a rework, to be made useful in team fights also…..but at the same time it’s hard, it’s impossible for me to sympathize with any condi abuser with the way condition damage is designed in this game.

If current diamond skin must go then current condi dmg must go too, because condi removal is simply not enough anymore, you get overloaded by condis even before you can get at 600 range. You basically need at least 2 good DPS to take down a condi tank these days, because alone you get chilled/crippled/burned/feared to death and all they do is run in circles and you call it “skill”..well kitten me!

No need to care about my dodges or anything..just staff spamm to win…BS

I don’t agree with you on everything, but I agree with this post.

sinject.4607:

Sunshine.5014:

If you request nerf to Burning, then do the right thing and request nerf to the Burning duration runes/sigils. Just by equiping thoses, you increase your damage by 65+%.

A damage build can only increase damage by about 10% through runes/sigils. For conditions build, runes/sigils carry a significant damage coefficient (65%) now it’s ridiculous. It was fine before the patch since conditions do not stack. Now that conditions stack, it’s the whole reason why Burning deals so much damage. Imagine you can equip a set of rune and increase your power damage by 50%. Of course, that’s OP.

We need to change:

• Balthazar runes: 15% burning duration
• Burning sigil: 10% burning duration

That’s still a raw 25% increase on damage, but it would be better than 65%.

TL;DR: I don’t agree with needing burning, but if you insist, ask for the right nerf: Burning duration runes/Sigils.

the way burning works now (stacking) is a bigger problem than duration sigils/runes alone. i think what needs to be done is what was done with confusion, split it between PvE (stronger variant) and PvP (weaker, more player oriented variant). because as it stands right burning seems to be stupidly easier to apply than either poison, bleeds, or torment yet does drastically more damage than any of them at the same time. burning needs a nerf.

You’re saying that removing the 40% damage coefficient is not a big nerf enough? My condi guard can deal 40k burning damage in 5s. Without the burning duration, I lose like 15k damage. That’s a lot of nerf already. I think burning is fine now. It’s just the coefficient is ridiculous.

If you only request nerf to Burning directly (like if ANet listen to you and nerf burning by 10%), you will still encounter sick burning damage because build like my condi guard can still put out tons of burning with the 65% raw increase.

Nerf the right thing

If you request nerf to Burning, then do the right thing and request nerf to the Burning duration runes/sigils. Just by equiping thoses, you increase your damage by 65+%.

A damage build can only increase damage by about 10% through runes/sigils. For conditions build, runes/sigils carry a significant damage coefficient (65%) now it’s ridiculous. It was fine before the patch since conditions do not stack. Now that conditions stack, it’s the whole reason why Burning deals so much damage. Imagine you can equip a set of rune and increase your power damage by 50%. Of course, that’s OP.

We need to change:

• Balthazar runes: 15% burning duration
• Burning sigil: 10% burning duration

That’s still a raw 25% increase on damage, but it would be better than 65%.

TL;DR: I don’t agree with needing burning, but if you insist, ask for the right nerf: Burning duration runes/Sigils.

Yes, confirm. It should be fixed.

In order for Ele to step out of water/Arcana, other utilities must be buffed to include more defense options when traited.

For example:

• Arcane: when traited, give 1 stack of Arcane Shield every time an Arcane skill is used, last 3s.
• Glyph: when traited, give 2s Resistance upon activation.
• Signet: when traited (Written in Stone), give 3s aura, depends on the signet. Air: Shock aura, Fire: Fire aura…

Without a good defensive set of utilities, all Ele will continue to run Cantrips, and there fore will continue to run Water.

Of course after any patches, there can be bugs. This is a huge patch, and I for one, applause then for executing it so smoothly. Yup, I’d love for the skill queue bug to be fixed. But overall, the patch is a huge success!

Vesuvius.9874:

Xenon.4537:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

How about instead of nerfing conditions (especially ones that some specs are reliant on as their soul damaging condition) we instead look at other ways to fix the problem.

For PvE it would make sense for boss type creatures to have access to the resistance boon, condition cleanses or possibly even a flat condi damage reduction.

For PvP it would also make sense for every class to be given varying degrees of the new resistance boon.
It could be tacked on to various traits, skills, utilities etc…

That would solve allot of the problems in PvP.

If they continue to persist then other solutions could be looked at.

This, this, and more of this. You all cry “nerf” now, but what happens when they add the resistance boon? Will you cry “buff”?

Well said. Given this community, I think that’s exactly what’s going to happen.

I don’t ask solely for nerf to conditions damage. I want conditions to get buffed, and conditions duration runes/sigils to get nerfed.

Right now conditions duration runes/sigils/food carry too much damage for the conditions classes. They are forced to take those runes/sigils unless they want to reduce their damage by 65%.

Burst right after water. Also, if they have Ether Renewal, keep applying conditions. They can’t cleanse it fast enough now. Trust me and test that. The heal from ER no longer can keep up with the conditions pressure

The 8s cooldown is a myth that has been debunked multiple times. It’s 8.7 + 1.3 = 10s. Without Arcana it’s 11.5s.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. D/D ele basically had 1-2 main setups, but over all it was 0/0/2/6/6. Now, some people I’ve seen experiment with Fire, Air or Full Earth replacing the 2! Have you tried it and how did you like it?

Fire/Air/Earth seems all viable, except that Air seems to be a bit weaker in this condi meta. It doesn’t offer enough defense in a condi/power burst. You must take Water together with Air, or play a glass cannon build that doesn’t care about defense.

Fire and Earth are solid but not OP.

Rock Solid needs a buff. It should grand at least 2 stacks of Stability. 1 stack is nothing in this meta, and as a master trait, it’s pretty weak.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. S/F got a slight buff (although slightly bugged) to fresh air, but also lost some damage. How are you fairing with this build currently?

I think it’s good, but not great. Survivalbility is higher, and that’s a good thing though. I’d wait more to see.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Have any of you been trying builds with less used weapon sets like D/F or Staff?
2. Eles got a real chance at a condi build! How have you been running burns? Simply in a normal cele or full condi?

Burning duration is really strong. Putting a Bathazar rune + burning sigil on my D/D almost double the burning damage I deal, while only sacrificing a bit of the power damage. Balthazar rune set should only provide 15% more burning duration, and the sigil should only provide 10% more. Buff burning after that if it’s weak. Don’t make the Runes/Sigils carry so much portion of the damage.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Any obscure builds being run like aura share or lightning rod?

A full bunker Cleric E/W/A Ele can 1v2 for a very long while. Maybe we should buff base healing and reduce healing scaling. Or we can also wait and see how the meta settles.

I have 8 classes and Ele is definitely the most fun to me. You’re decent in all game mode. The attack animation is beautiful, and the gameplay is active. You don’t depend on passive proc to kill. You don’t depend on AI to kill. You gotta dodge the right skill, or you will die because of the low HP/armor. However, when you do the right things, it feels so good.

Build Template please! If this feature is build template, great! If not, scrap the current idea and make it build template!

RockSteady.7123:

I really really hope Anet doesn’t listen to all of you complaining about damage being too high
…

Don’t get me wrong, I love the new damage meta. It’s much more fun than bunkers staying on a point poking each other for 5 minutes.

What I wanted to point out is that for those people complaining about conditions damage (especially burning), the main culprit is they happen to fight people with Burning duration runes/sigils. Burning is not OP. The raw 65+% damage multiplier is OP. If they want to ask for a nerf, ask for a nerf to the runes/sigils.

Personally, I really enjoy this new fast pace meta. Positioning, timing, and dodge the right thing is so rewarding.

azizul.8469:

leave my runes of flame legion alone…….

I rather ask for buffs on conditions and nerf conditions duration runes/sigils/food. Big raw damage multipliers like that only encourage extreme build.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sunshine.5014:

Lordrosicky.5813:

mistsim.2748:

I haven’t actually found fresh air to be unmanageable. it’s the dagger cele eles that have gotten buffed via burning being OP

Yeh burning needs considerable toning down on ele in particular.

Alright, I’m gonna spoil it then. It’s the burning duration runes and sigil. They increase burning damage by more than 65% (plus more condi power and proc). That’s the secret. The power rune/sigil only increase the damage like 10% (plus more power). Condi build has a big advantage with raw percent increase.

Sigh. Now everyone knows what to run for meta xD.

Nah its not only that at all. That is like when everyone said might was the problem with cele and they nerfed might and it did nothing. Burning itself is too strong and the way elementalist in particular has to apply burning is broken. It has many repetitive burning skills

Might nerfs hit Ele hard. It was fading out of meta before this patch arrived. The burning duration is the culprit. It was not a problem when condi couldn’t stack. But now that Condi stack, it’s raw damage multiplier, period.

Lol, feel free to not use burning runes/sigils on Ele. Let the creative people use it, and enjoy your fun time complaining on the forums xD. I already spoiled my meta build for you

Kolache.3964:

Would you nerf duration reduction food as well?

Yes I would. If condi is too weak after that (which I don’t think it is) we can always adjust the scaling with condi power.

As it is right now, those condi duration runes/sigils/food are raw damage multiplier.

Right now the Burning duration runes/sigils/food are too OP. They should all be reduced. Taking Balthazar and 20% duration sigil give me raw 65% damage increase (and even more due to condi power and proc).

It was fine before since you couldn’t stack conditions. However, it’s vastly OP now that we can stack condi. Power runes/sigil only provide 5-10% damage multiplier.

The burning duration runes/sigils/food should be reduced to 10% duration bonus max.

I had my fun cheesing people in PvP for a week. Now I want balance.

Lordrosicky.5813:

mistsim.2748:

I haven’t actually found fresh air to be unmanageable. it’s the dagger cele eles that have gotten buffed via burning being OP

Yeh burning needs considerable toning down on ele in particular.

Alright, I’m gonna spoil it then. It’s the burning duration runes and sigil. They increase burning damage by more than 65% (plus more condi power and proc). That’s the secret. The power rune/sigil only increase the damage like 10% (plus more power). Condi build has a big advantage with raw percent increase.

Sigh. Now everyone knows what to run for meta xD.