Guild Wars 2

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

make it such that only teams of 5 can participate in team arena.

problem solved.

That would be ideal. However, 4v5 wins do happen at times…..I was in a team of 4 the other night, and we absolutely crushed the opposing team of 5. Obviously they were a mix match of inexperienced and such…..there was one player who was really tough….when he/she went down, the whole team would whither quick.

But yea, 5v5 required would be nice in the pug solo arena.

Aberrant.6749:

It’s more of a problem with the rewards overall in hotjoin/solo/team.

In solo/team you have people that are just leeching for free stuff basically. Losing in team/solo rewards too much. If it didn’t, people would try harder to win.

Hotjoin people will always stack one team with more people. Always. They also do things like go spectate then wait for auto balance to join the winning team for more rewards.

Hotjoin is a testing area (basically). It doesn’t help anyone learn teamwork or anything like that. Because it’s not actual pvp, it shouldn’t have much of a reward outside of getting your daily done.

None of these sorts of exploitative behaviors should be rewarded.

Completely agree that the exploitative behaviors in pvp should not be rewarded. But not sure Anet could take care of something like that without also penalizing people who are actually trying their best.

Narkodx.1472:

Typical. It saddens me that wanting to win and competition is not the most fun aspect of this game for a lot of people. Grinding for pixels and rewards is the best part of this game. IMO, losing is not fun, therefore if I am not trying to win than I am not having fun. We cant change the world. Next time PM me for your 5th man lol

Wanting to win and competition is the most fun aspect of this game for a lot of people. Completing your dailies and making progression in an achievement/award track is also one of the more fun aspects for a lot of people in this game. Checking out how well a particular new build works in pvp is also a lot of fun to a lot of people.

While I enjoy winning a pvp match, and I never purposefully try to lose a match, losing a pvp match is not that big of a deal to me. Sure I would rather win…..especially the close matches. But even if I lose, I am still enjoying it all, as I found out new stuff about my particular build, made progression on my daily, and kept going with my achievement/award track. And sometimes, I make some new friends in the pvp matches……so it’s all good.

While there will always be griefers and troublemakers in the game, they, too, paid the purchase price for the game and are entitled to play the game the way they want to. (Within the TOS, of course)

Having said that, with the recent change to the dailies, Vergil, I think, has a good point.
A lot of people in there now are in there just to complete their dailies and could care less about winning or a reward track.

Straegen.2938:

Forzani.2584:

I did not know this. Do you manually have to mute people one at a time?

…

That or the commander that sounds like he just got out of middle school and his voice is still changing

I mute people as they annoy me and never un-mute them. 90% of the people on TS rarely make a useless peep so once you mute the rest TS is very usable. This is only good for listening in on channels since talking in one with muted users often leads to players unknowing talking over each other. I just use map chat for call outs in this scenario.

There is another way that a friend uses. You can set the playback of the sound device way down then on people you want to listen to right click and change their volume to a higher setting. This way most people are muffled and the ones you want to listen to are nice and clear. The other advantage to this system is you won’t be talking over people if you want to talk in the channel. You may not hear what they are saying clearly but you will know if they are talking.

Excellent idea. I hadn’t thought of that one.

Aberrant.6749:

Have it keep scaling up for the PvP ban times. 1st offense 2 hours ->days->weeks->month.

If you’re having issues you shouldn’t be playing PvP and wrecking 9 other people’s game. That’s extremely selfish and rude. Go play solo PvE/WvW instead until your issues are resolved.

Fwiw, I did resolve my driver issues. Everything is perfect again. I had never had that problem with my video drivers before, so just wasn’t expecting that to happen. After the 3 crashes, I didn’t enter pvp again until I was sure the problem was fixed. (Tested it out in the PvE mob boss trains and in zergs in WvW)

I personally hate leaving a good PvP pug hung out to dry with one less player.

Haven’t had a crash in PvP since.

necrid.7615:

I totally agree with you tho I am experiencing a whole nother problem with the dishonorable thing, sometimes I get alot of dc’s in a row while I’m playing TPVP, when this happens I log back in asap, tho when I get back it happens alot that I’m dishonorable, not for intentionally quitting a match, just because my internet sucks…. it’s very frustrating…..

I got a dishonorable rating just a couple weeks ago to a similar situation….was having trouble with a new video card driver and it crashed me out of 3 matches. I don’t normally quit a match unless something comes up at home where I need to get out of the match pronto to attend to whatever…..but that rarely happens.

Dee Jay.2460:

vincecontix.1264:

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

This +200 alot worse in many other mmorpg its actually not that bad in this game at all.

Except it’s not.

I just spent 2 hours doing Fractals 49 in a Pug. We had Swamp, Cliffside, Dredge Fractal and the Molten Duo. It was a time consuming, and somewhat tedious experience. And for what?

1 Gold and 40 Silver.

Roughly the same reward I would have gotten for zerging AC in 15 minutes.

That’s bollux. Absolutely bollux. This game has no correlation between risk/reward or any sort of loot-tiering.

You can get the same amount and quality of loot for zerging around in Orr, doing Champ trains or FotM or auto-shotting your way through mega-events. It’s an abyssal way to reward people for their efforts.

FotM can be hard, frustrating and punishing, especially if you’re in a PuG. The rewards need to reflect that or why even bother?

Been there, done worse, with a much larger time commitment in many other mmorpgs. What viralthefrog and vincecontix say is very true. If you don’t like the RNG in this game, then you will absolutely detest it in many other mmorpgs.

Yea, our low pop server(Kaineng) is experiencing the same thing. Call it burnout, boredom, or just needing to do something else for awhile. We had a decent presence a few weeks ago, but lately, it doesn’t seem like many want to come out to play anymore. The WvW hardcores still show up, but even their numbers have gone down. I think players are just finding something else to do, as the tournament has gone on for so long…..it just gets to be too much of same old, same old after awhile.

I still keep my eye on it, but have been leveling alts, playing pvp, and just doing different stuff so that maybe I will find myself recharged on doing wvw again in another week or so. I should probably do some more EotM, as that would give me somewhat of a wvw fix, and it’s usually fairly fun. And, with the festival coming on the 20th, with Queen Jennah, the pavillion and gauntlet and such returning…..that will fix any sort of boredom that I have been having lately, as I loved those last year.

Bombsaway.7198:

A new map would be ideal. I remember when DAOC redid their wvw map and it really added something new.

Ideally, I’d like to see them create a new map for each zone minus the silly “knock me off the ledge” mechanics of EOTM. Sure it might be thought of as “unbalanced” but not if each server cycled thru them the same number of times in a season.

In other words, in a season, you would change maps 3×. Each week would be a different map.

The more often you change the maps, the more fun WvW will stay. So introducing a new wvw map every season or two would be ideal. Take one out, add one in and have a body of maps ready to switch in and out.

I have to agree with this. I was a DaoC player for years, and when they redid the wvw map, it really freshened things up….at least until everybody got used to the new map. Changing/adding a new wvw map a couple times a year, and then recycling through them over the year would really add some good new twists to the current wvw in this game.

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

+100

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I play mostly with my main (Mesmer), but I have an alt Guardian, Ele, Thief, and War all made for pvp.

… I’m terrible with all of them. X.x

Right there with you. Have a ranger, mesmer, ele, and warrior that I play pvp with(I also use them for WvW and PvE……and I too, suck at pvp…..but its still fun.

Widebody.5071:

Over fifty and having a blast, the Mrs’s get irritated at times but oh well.. it’s a good way to wind down at the end of the day.

I am fortunate that I have a wife who enjoys GW2 even more than I do. I started playing a couple months before she did, and she already has one more 80 than I do, and numerous alts that are much higher level than mine.

And I just love it when I am sitting in front of the tv, watching a basketball or baseball game and she wanders into the living room and says, “aren’t you going to play the game tonight?”……lol

Again, great to have a wife that loves this style of gaming as much as I do…..very nice always having someone to play GW2 with.

Mid 50s here….so is my wife. We have been playing mmorpgs since around 2000……me a bit earlier than that. I have always been a video game nut since Pong hit the scene in the mid 70s. Was a big flight sim nut before I started getting into mmoprgs in the late 90s.

Wanderer.3248:

Teon.5168:

Wanderer.3248:

TS integrated with the game client, with single sign-on would be much more convenient than a third party client.

Having to start and log into teamspeak separately (and worse, log into the server forum to find out what the TS password is, and then log into TS) is a giant pain in the kitten.

And then some guilds have passwords, so you need to log into the guild forum… At which point I just give up.

Do you realize that you can bookmark each different channel that you have signed into on TS, so that in the future, you just have to bring up TS, click on the bookmark pulldown and hit the bookmark, and TS does the rest on login, including the password. Makes it very simple when you belong to several different TS channels.

Until the password changes.

True. On TS channels that change the pw regularly….not much you can do about that.

Wanderer.3248:

TS integrated with the game client, with single sign-on would be much more convenient than a third party client.

Having to start and log into teamspeak separately (and worse, log into the server forum to find out what the TS password is, and then log into TS) is a giant pain in the kitten.

And then some guilds have passwords, so you need to log into the guild forum… At which point I just give up.

Do you realize that you can bookmark each different channel that you have signed into on TS, so that in the future, you just have to bring up TS, click on the bookmark pulldown and hit the bookmark, and TS does the rest on login, including the password. Makes it very simple when you belong to several different TS channels.

I use TS when I am roaming with the WvW guild that I belong to…..it’s a lot of fun, and you get to know the other guildies better. Besides using it for battle situations, we also joke around on it and just have fun gabbing with each other. It is also really useful for helping out WvW noobs.

My wife and I also have a small TS channel for when we play together……much easier than trying to type or shout between computer rooms……we find TS to be an extremely useful tool……for lots of different games.

At the same time, some of the larger TS channels can become a real pita with all the rude and annoying chatter that can be encountered.

Korimor.2406:

I had 15 hours of class, I had 2 40 minute lectures monday and wednesday, with 2 50 minute discussions on friday and 2 online classes.

Yeah it is, I have for about 10 years now and I have several family members and close friends who do it professionally, I am just now really breaching into the professional scene just getting out of all the junior/high school circuits

Ok, had you beat on the light class schedule, as in less hours….lol.

Am envious about the fishing tournament stuff….that has to be a ton of fun! Best of luck in that!

Korimor.2406:

Teon.5168:

So, let’s see….4500 hours divided by approx. 21 months(life of gw2) = approx 214 hours a month, divided by 30 = just over 7 hours average daily playing time.

Seriously? That’s downright scary.

I mean, congrats and all to the op, but this all reminds me of that South Park episode of Eric Cartman being addicted to WoW.

I also have LOTS of idle time in LA, I would leave the game on when I was going to classes and such as well..

I love watching all of these responses and all the hate from people who can only seem to say, “you’ve wasted your life/ too much time/ no life/ must be a troll” etc.

I know for a fact there are many people who have played much more than me since release, honestly I have maybe only “grinded” (done dungeons, farmed for gold, etc) for about 300-500 hours total. Most of my time has been spent AFK, in LA talking, or in WvW.

I know that I have played this game quite a lot, possibly even too much, but what else are you supposed to do when you are a college kid stuck in the dorm during the week with 22 free hours a day. I don’t sleep much as it is, I only workout for about an hour a day, lay around or watch tv for another hour or so, which still leaves a ton of free time left in the day. Even after factoring in hanging out with friends or going to parties and other things associated with school there is still a TON of free time.

This is mostly at school though, when I am at home, or on the weekends most of my days are spent out on a lake somewhere fishing competitively to make money. I don’t know if anyone here knows about tournament fishing or bass fishing in general, but it is a huge time consumer during the summer and when season is actually in. So basically, I don’t just live inside on the computer, I know as well as many of my friends who play, know that I do not just play this game religiously as many of you would probably believe.

So continue the hate and the criticism of my personal life, it is really kind of amusing.
And if you are going to talk about how much of a loser and such I am in a PM, why not just post in on the forum cause I’m obviously not going to respond to each message individually.

And I thank everyone who is not being down on the topic and trying to put me down for dumb and irrelevant reasons. I posted this because of how excited I was to finish my goal and to share my excitement with others whom may not have the time nor the will to collect them all. And I appreciate the good words amongst the sea of “hate”

No hate coming from me. Just stating that that sort of time commitment to a video game is kind of scary, imo. Still, cool that you were able to get all the legendaries.

And just asking, but what sort of class schedule do you have when you have 22 hours of free time a day being a college student? (and I thought I did light class schedules at college….lol)

Cool that you’re doing tournament fishing……that has got to be a ton of fun! I have watched several of the bassmaster tourneys on tv, and I fish when I can……could never do tourney stuff….but I love fishing

And the Cartman episode of South Park where he and his friends get addicted to WoW IS pretty funny……reminded me of a lot of the stuff I have seen and experienced in mmos…..lol.

So, let’s see….4500 hours divided by approx. 21 months(life of gw2) = approx 214 hours a month, divided by 30 = just over 7 hours average daily playing time.

Seriously? That’s downright scary.

I mean, congrats and all to the op, but this all reminds me of that South Park episode of Eric Cartman being addicted to WoW.

DaShi.1368:

Teon.5168:

I realize it’s a dragon flying around, but it does kind of look like a Klingon Bird of Prey warship in that screen shot. Yea, I am a trekkie nerd….so what

Yes, I thought it looked like a raptor at first, now I can totally see the Bird of Prey.

Next up, we’ll have William Shatner’s voice taking over for Trahearne……lol.

Taygus.4571:

His whole posts screams of this is how it was and how it should be.
“Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.”

How on earth do you come to that conclusion when “enjoyed” is the past tense of enjoy? We enjoyed it back then because that is all there was.

Kal’s post just explains what it used to be like. What the grind was really like. Not that we should go back to it, or that it was the best thing, or anything like that.

Coming to the conclusion that his post “screams of this is how it was and how it should be.” is really grasping at straws, imo…….trying to manufacture something that isn’t there just so it fits your argument.

arjeidi.2690:

I’d say GW2’s quality is on par with other MMOs, except ANet has a lot more stubbornness and incompetence than other developers.

LOL. That is said on nearly every mmo forum out there about just about every mmo creator out there……lol

Crossaber.8934:

Kal Spiro.9745:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

maddoctor.2738:

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

But I wouldn’t go as far as say that my grammar or spelling is the issue here. The ppl who are debating the issue is b/c to them is insignificant , is not in there play style so it matter not that healing works or not.

As long option A is available there are content with the game itself but there a few of us that would like to be playing option B

And as demonstrated in the videos I posted it’s very easy to do any dungeon with 5 healer characters and do it without even dodging, while only using auto attacks. Why do you say 4 dps and 1 healer isn’t “doable”, because it certainly is. And it is a lot smoother indeed.

Yes a video of 5 cleric gear equip not 4 dps and 1 healer. 5 ppl using cleric will make any group barely get a scratch on there HP just with Regeneration tick and auto attack healing effect from weapon and food effect with out the need of using any healing spells

1 healer does not work b/c the healing alone is gimpy, alone you heal about 20% of ppl HP every 10 sec that is to low to keep any person half alive when mobs are able to take down 60% of your HP under 5 sec

If 5 players can do a dungeon very very easily with their healing gear (to the point of being afk while doing it) and you want to buff healing? I don’t get it, how much of an easy mode do you want the game to be?

New dungeon meta: LFG Healers only!

He wants to have 4 people who don’t have to heal themselves at all, and are dedicated to DPS and a 5th who isn’t dedicated to healing, but is still able to keep the whole group up the entire time all by himself.

That seems to be the gist of his argument, which is why everyone has been telling him no.

What? a part time healer but still able to out heal the party damage? That’s not even possible to happen in trinity…. I can’t imagine if healing is such OP, what will it be the full time healer… keep regen up and hit 1 and solo arah path 4….

Please excuse me, such thinking is extraordinary….

Yea, I have to agree. If I am understanding the OP’s posts correctly, he is going beyond even a standard trinity style mmo. Not sure what his point is, as what he is suggesting would be screwy as heck, and would have absolutely not even the slightest bit of balance to it.

I have to agree with a lot of other posters here. Either the OP is a troll, or he really has no basic understanding of how this, or other mmorpgs work.

Prysin.8542:

Rule 1 of lb ranger: never be in the front
Rule 2 of lb ranger: NEVER be in the front

The idea of the ranger group was to provide cc while having a deadly backline destroyer group. Piercing shots also does not care about body blocking. Since rangers have close to no burst, the damage is consistent. If you banner someone, the rezzed people will be dead again shortly thereafter, thus banner on cd and more people going down. If you send anyone to deal with the rangers, well, would you sacrifice any serious number of people to deal with 5 rangers??? Sending 2-3 thieves wont work as 5xrapid fire will murder them instantly, if they make it past rapid fire, try bursting anything standing in 5x barrage dealing 2k/wave +air/fire proccing for 1.2-2k ontop of that

That would work well for WvW, but the problem would be getting 5 good rangers together.
Maybe a ‘ranger guild’?

Just started experimenting with a different melee build for my ranger in PvP. Using greatsword and sword/horn, and he just rocks now in small group battles. A lot more fun than my lb/sb typical power ranger setup.

Don’t think the setup would be worth much in a zerg, though.(need to start playing my mesmer more in those situations) Might be ok for roaming and/or small party setup.

Basically took the advice here of several people who said the melee ranger was good….so adjusted my traits and weapons loadout, and yea……lots better in a small group setting. Lots of fun to play.

I am not sure why this inane argument is even raised about this game. If you want a monthly subscription based game, there are tons out there to pick from. If you want to keep playing this game, and want a monthly sub, then just buy 20 bucks worth of gems every month.

Problem solved.

I realize it’s a dragon flying around, but it does kind of look like a Klingon Bird of Prey warship in that screen shot. Yea, I am a trekkie nerd….so what

Drakent.9605:

Teon.5168:

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it) The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

Yes I am extremely sorry English is my second language, I try to use spell check all the time but the grammar is kind of hard even the programs I use on the net don’t do a good job

Wondered that. Thanks for the explanation.

Drakent.9605:

here another way I could be more clear for you dps junky do understand my point

I would like it where they could be 2 option to run a dungeon

Option A
lets get 5 dps and run the dungeon fast

Option B
Lets get 4 dps and 1 healer to run the dungeon smoother

well gets what! Option B is not available b/c the healing support is to weak to do its job

No offense meant, but people might understand your point better if you wrote with a bit more clarity. (e.g. spelling, grammar…..not asking you to be perfect, but come on…at least get it close so that most have a chance to decipher it)

The above post and the post before it(2 of many examples) are muddy and confusing, at best.

I know I told you that my opinion was engi over ranger, even though I play a ranger. However, after experimenting with a new trait setup and weapon loadout, I have to say that a melee ranger with greatsword and sword/horn absolutely rocks in small group setups. Have been trying it out in PvP for a few days, now, and even though I am not completely comfortable with the weaps and their associated keys, he can hold his own and kill effectively in small group battles. Before, when I was the typical power ranger setup, I was absolute paper, defensively, and had troubles holding my own, even in a 1v1 battle.

With my new setup, I can honestly say that a melee ranger would be great for a small group. As others have said here on the boards, am sure he would be good in a dungeon, especially with spotter.

Solstice.1097:

Teon.5168:

I just started doing some pvp a couple weeks ago, due to the inactivity in WvW on our server. Didn’t think I would ever try it, but it’s been kind of addictive fun. I have just been doing the pug type 5v5 matches, and had one the other day where we only had 4 vs 5……got our butts kicked, but noone on the team gave up.

My biggest concern in the last few days, is that my video card has been locking up at times during the matches…..think I fixed it(new driver was buggy), but felt terrible locking up in the middle of a good match, with our side winning…….they probably didn’t miss me much, as I stubbornly play a ranger……but still felt bad crashing out.

(And fwiw, I am not THAT stubborn, as I also play a mesmer in pvp….lol)

But definitely agree with some others here…..don’t give up if your side is down by 1 player……I would think the win would feel great with a smaller force.

rangers dont suck as much in PvP as they do in WvW. pvp isn’t about zerging so if you’re good in 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 type scenarios you can be really effective.

Part of the reason I am playing pvp with my Ranger……to get better at small group scenarios.

Devata.6589:

Again.. define grind. You keep telling my I don’t get your definition of grind but you never give your definition of grind..

Besides that, I don’t see how it even matters.

Yeah there is gold-grind.. Not because it takes so extreme long to get money. If you run farm-trains or do dungeons you can make some gold.

The problem is that I do not want to grind gold to buy items, I want to work towards those items directly (and that might be very hard work or maybe farming mobs for it to drop (what I think you consider grind)). That adds value to the items and the content and it’s simply something I like.

The get gold then buy items is just boring to me and totally devalues the items.

If you don’t want to name that grind then you don’t. Fact stays that to get most of those items it’s all gold, gold, gold in stead of working directly towards the item. Oow except for gold there is the temporary do it now ore lose out forever achievement list. Not much more fun.

I guess, if you want a more clear, specific definition of the word grind to me…..

Something, in an mmorpg, whether it be gold, an item, a drop, something like crafting, an ability…etc…..that takes a very large and absurd amount of in game time to achieve/get.

But then I would also have to define what “very large and absurd amount of in game time” means to me….lol.

It’s difficult to define, because the word grind today means something so completely different than what it meant 15 years or so ago. My previous post probably encompasses what I am trying to explain better.

Get yourself EQ1 or DaoC and play either of them for a few months……probably the only way you’ll understand what I mean……and even then, maybe not….you might enjoy them……

Like I said before…..just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

Devata.6589:

Maybe it would help if you define grind in stead of saying everything was a grind in those games. Anyway, I am talking about the current or even my definition of grind. And then there is to much gold gold gold.. grind.

I like to play for the items, not get gold to buy them. It is that simple.

Take the ‘grind’ that you feel exists for gold in GW2, and apply that same experience/feeling to just about every aspect of the game…..crafting, special abilities, gear, levels, regrind due to death and loss of items/coin, massive, time consuming missions for higher end abilities and trinkets, etc…..

I am not saying take your definition of the word grind……am saying to take how you feel about ‘grinding’ gold in this game and apply that same feeling/experience to all the above. It might be interesting and tolerable for the first character, but then new content has been added by then that just increases that grind, and then it just all starts to blur and become more of a dull job interspersed with some fun and enjoyment, despite the horrid time sinks. (“Count me out for anything tonight, as we have been planning this mission for such and such ability/trinket/1 part of a several part upper level conquest for several weeks, so I will be on my computer for the next 6 hours after work”)

I guess that is the best way I can come somewhat close to getting you to understand how those older mmos were when it came to grind. Or, buy yourself a cheap copy(they’ll be cheap because they’re so old) of Everquest 1 or Dark Age of Camelot and play it for a few months…….then you’ll get an idea of what I am trying to explain.

And don’t get me wrong…..they could be fun….and addictive…..because that is all there was then….and most mmo players were used to it……and a lot of us were a lot younger then….

But if I were to now install one of those older games, jump on my computer and play it, after having played GW2……..I would either be totally insane and/or would have completely destroyed my computer within 4 weeks of playing that old time sink.

My main is a ranger. I would suggest going with the engineer……don’t get me wrong, the ranger is a ton of fun….but the engineer is probably a bit more versatile.

Devata.6589:

So if you had to ‘grind’ for everything then why still need money? When you grind for the stuff you don’t need money to buy it. Anyway, if it’s so that indeed you had to grind money all the time in those games to buy the items you wanted instead of working directly towards those items, the way I like it then those games must not have been a lot of fun.

However, I have the feeling that you mainly mean it was very hard to get an item or to level up. That is something else then grinding and then in fact it might be exactly what I want. Of course then getting back to the question, if I work towards the items I want then I would not need (so much) gold to buy it.

This is exactly my point. You just don’t really have any sort of real understanding of what some of the old time mmo players here say about the older games and the grind. Of course you also had to grind for gold, as some of the games’ elements required ‘buys’ instead of drops, such as housing, mounts, crafting tools, etc. That was in addition to the grinding for levels, drops, gear……running grindy, horribly time consuming large group missions for certain types of special abilities, etc….having to regrind due to a death of your player where you lost gear, coin, ranking, etc……the list goes on an on and on……blech.

I guess I will just have to respectfully disagree with you. From what you have said, especially when you consider GW2 to be some sort of awful gold ‘grind’, I feel that you would completely detest the grind of the older games. But I certainly could be wrong. I did know people back then that enjoyed those massive time sinks…..maybe you might have been one of them. I certainly tolerated them myself back when…….but am now glad that some of the mmorpgs are now removing those incredible time wasting sinkholes.

Not trying to pick any sort of fight…..just disagreeing with your perception of it all.

Devata.6589:

Most of what you name I don’t consider grind. Like I said, it’s the fact that you have to grind gold to get anything in the game in stead of working for it.

I can’t say I do belong to the “back then we played real MMO’s” because back then I did not play MMO’s I did play other games. However I don’t mind if leveling takes long.

How do you know you wouldn’t consider it all a grind, if you never played any of the older mmos?

Yours’ and other’s complaints about the ‘grind for gold’ in this game pretty much proves to me, imo, that you and others would absolutely detest the grind for everything in the older mmos…….one didn’t just grind for levels, or gold, or elite items…..there was a grind for nearly everything in the game.

Not trying to state the “when I was your age had to walk through 6 feet of snow for 10 miles bare naked to get to school” sort of nonsense. It’s just that the mmos back in the pre Wow days just thought that everyone wanted to play an mmorpg that required the players to mindlessly grind for absurd amounts of time. The definition of ‘grind’ has changed so, so much over the years…….it’s just difficult for me to call much of anything in this game a grind, in the true sense of the word, imo.

Astralporing.1957:

Nerelith.7360:

Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.

Interesting. I have played multiplayer rpg games since a very long time ago (though they weren’t called MMOs then, but MUDs, and weren’t graphical but telnet-based). The effort needed to gain levels and acquire gear/gold in those was indeed incomparable to what we have today (and was approached only by the early generation of first MMOs). The thing is, nobody actually liked that. The “real” game (getting top tier gear, and what was the then equivalent of raids) started only after you levelled up to the top, and acquired “passable” (meaning – ridiculously strong, and already hard to get) gear. Getting to that point was a phase that everyone wanted to skip as fast as possible. It was, even then, a grind.

Oh man, that brings back memories……text based games……am old enough to actually remember those….lol. And amazingly enough, I knew a few people in those older mmos and such that actually enjoyed the grind…..the horrible, tedious, never ending grind. (“wow, look….I got a whole level this last week!!!!!…..woot!!!!”) I suppose I even enjoyed it, too, to some extent…..it was some sort of badge of honor getting through those grinds with your sanity still intact. But I was much younger, with a very different attitude than I now have.

And yea, gw2 is ez mode(comparably)…..but I am to the point now where I want that in an mmo…….enough of playing a ‘game’ like it’s a go-nowhere job….bleh.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

I did not play EQN2 but the way you define grind is not what I and many people are complaining about. The the endless gold-grind that people complain about.

I would love to in fact have to do something for my rewards.. something specific, not just grinding gold because as you say, that is much more memorable.

The thing is, from the way many " Modern Gamers" use the term " grind", it seems to me that what you now consider grind… we who have been around since UO, EQ1, CoH, SWG…DAoC… yes, the “pre-World of Warcraft” era, before MMO’s were so simplified, that players can expect and demand… level cap in a week… etc… We called " Playing the Game."

Playing the game, meant you did not reach level cap for at least 6 months to maybe 9 months.

Playing the game meant that the Item you wanted…The EverQuest Epic for your class, took many different quests, some you could do alone, some you needed a couple of people to help…some you needed a whole guild to take down some world Boss… and back then World Bosses made grenth and Lyssa Look… weak.

Back then… an Epic… was so much More difficult to get than a legendary, and was Not something you could Buy off anyone else. It was soulbound on acquire.

Back then the best rewards were things you had to work for… fact is…whoever got their Epic probably worked on it for 6 to 9 months….after reaching level cap….. if they were lucky.

Today’s gamers toss the word " Grind" around as if they knew what a grind was. If they were ever to try a “real” MMO, and Not these " MMO-lites." That have become common since WoW simplified, and … eliminated most of what playing an MMO was, they would rage quit and whine about " This is just boring grinding!"

Back then… buying In game Gold with cash was anathema. People that did it were not " the average gamer." but seen as lazy. back then people that griefed others, trolls, were ostracized In games where being ostracized meant you could not get content accompliahed. You needed help from others. and that led to a feeling of community.

I have to laugh when I see threads like this… " grind" .. today’s players simply have no conception of what a true grind is, since Not many games since WoW revolutionized the MMO Genre, By simplifying it to " level cap in a week, because…. The game begins at level cap." has any grind in it. Anything that might extend the longevity or even make the game more entertaining, by making it more challenging is shouted down as " Boring grind..I’ll rage quit and take my money with me."

Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.

Nerelith, I could not agree with you more, as you pretty much summed up all my feelings about absurd threads such as this one! Excellent post!

And Devata, of course one had to grind gold(on a much longer/larger scale than gw2) in those older mmos. One had to grind for nearly everything in those older games.

I just started doing some pvp a couple weeks ago, due to the inactivity in WvW on our server. Didn’t think I would ever try it, but it’s been kind of addictive fun. I have just been doing the pug type 5v5 matches, and had one the other day where we only had 4 vs 5……got our butts kicked, but noone on the team gave up.

My biggest concern in the last few days, is that my video card has been locking up at times during the matches…..think I fixed it(new driver was buggy), but felt terrible locking up in the middle of a good match, with our side winning…….they probably didn’t miss me much, as I stubbornly play a ranger……but still felt bad crashing out.

(And fwiw, I am not THAT stubborn, as I also play a mesmer in pvp….lol)

But definitely agree with some others here…..don’t give up if your side is down by 1 player……I would think the win would feel great with a smaller force.

Drakent.9605:

This is a pure support class

That is where your logic falls apart. There are no “pure support” classses in this game, due to there being no trinity. Sure, you can make a class more supportive than dps, but it is still not a true support class, such as other mmos(ones with the trinity) have.
And depending on the build, that ‘pure support’ class that you have supposedly built, can also be built as more of a hybrid dps/tank class, as well, depending on the player’s build.

As long as you feel that you should be able to have a ‘pure support’ class in this game, then you will always be miserable and disappointed with the build and its intended lack of pure support healing, due to the game intentionally having no trinity.

I also have to agree with the above post. Mooty makes some very valid and good points about the hybrid support/melee build, such as the Guardian. You have to think differently about a support build’s role/tactics……due to no trinity, you have to play them differently than a true healer from other trinity style mmos.

I, for one, like that there is no trinity in this game. But, having come from mmos that had true support classes, I do admit that it did take some getting used to.

Dr Ritter.1327:

I understand that it is common knowledge this game has the worst story in MMO history, but it has to be said again.

I decide to make a new character and play through the story with a friend who has returned to this game. Both have the same options in the storyline and same race but you know it never wants to count the progress…At this point i’d rather hang myself than continue through this garbage you call a campaign.

I can only pray that the GW1 cooperative mission system will return in the expansion.

That’s your opinion, and nothing else. There are elements of the personal story that are quite good, and elements that are quite bad. And its easy enough to skip through the cut scenes. /shrug

Getting a couple of crafters to the highest level in Dark Age of Camelot. The sheer boredom and tedium of that task was beyond absurd. Anything in this game pales in comparison.

Ashen.2907:

Crafting is a grind, for me, because it is a repetitious detestable chore behind which desirable elements are gated. I completely understand that others feel differently about it but keep in mind that others would not consider leveling through combat (killing NPCs) to be grindy.

In general I dont expect that anyone considers a task that they enjoy to be a grind unless the amount of that task required makes it no longer enjoyable.

Yea, I suppose the term "grind’ can be quite subjective. Imo, I have not seen anything in this game, so far, that comes anywhere close to the comparative ‘grind’ that I have seen/experienced in other mmos.

I didn’t ‘enjoy’ crafting from 0-400…..but it only took me around an hour to do, and I got around 7 levels doing it…..so the hour for 7 levels on my character was more than worth it, to me.

It would be nice, if say around level 62 in the personal story, if while Trahearne was blabbering on about how “we”(rather, everyone but Trahearne) can all defeat the dragon together, that he wandered off the edge of some towering cliff, muttered "this can’t turn out good’, and then whined all the way down as he bounced off the rocks to a horrible death in the shark infested waters below.

If that was the case, then from that point on, players would be saying…..“man, I can’t wait for level 62 of the personal story…..that’s when that weasely, whiny plant bites it!!!”

Come on, Chemical, tell us how you really feel about Trahearne.

If I hear ‘this can’t turn out good’ from that whiny plant again, I think I may scream! My wife and I constantly berate him when we hear that while doing the personal story……‘Buck up, you whimpy plant!!!!! Quit be so kitten negative!!!! Show some plant cajones!’……ad infinitum

Ashen.2907:

Crafting is a grind. There is absolutely nothing enjoyable involved. It is a detestable chore.

I am not sure how anyone could call crafting a grind. At least leveling one from 0-400. If you have the gold(around 25g), you can go from 0-400 in around an hour. http://www.gw2crafts.net

And if you don’t have the gold, you can still level it at your convenience, using the crafting leveling guides as to what you need to pick up or how much gold you’ll need for a specific part. I suppose if you weren’t using any sort of guide, the crafting could get frustrating as you would have to keep looking at items, how to make them, what was required, etc…….but that is what the guides are for online…..to help make it all easier.

Now if you’re crafting ascended items, yea, I will agree…it becomes a bit of a grind just because of the 1 day timer the game imposes on crafting that stuff, and how costly it is to get a crafter to 500. 400-500 is extremely expensive and can take awhile if you need to farm the stuff needed.

Again, though, crafting in this game is a lot easier than a lot of the older mmorpgs. I remember one I played where you would sit around for hours watching tv mashing a button, waiting for your crafter to make one item and get 1 point……and this went on for weeks and weeks before you got a master level crafter. It was absolutely excruciatingly boring……I would have rather watched grass grow.

As others have said in this thread……the grindy elements of this game are completely optional and not required, unless you’re one of those players that just must have all the bells and whistles……but that is the player’s choice, and that choice carries consequences, e.g. grinding/farming, with it.

I could also see someone calling this game a grind if all they did to level was to kill npcs all day long. (When there are so many different ways to level/gain xp in this game)

Shadowbane.7109:

Lol didn’t read.

Short answer : No

Long answer : Nooooooooooooo

+10000000000

Gotta agree with you on #5 on the worst things about the game. The game engine does need to be improved, especially after the release of the megaserver patch. I have to drop my graphics down to medium quality or less in game to have smooth and playable dynamics in WvW/PvE zergs and/or in super populated cities.

As someone mentioned in a previous thread about this same sort of subject…..would be nice if the engine could take advantage of the 64 bit systems that a lot of people have.

And yea, some of the story telling and cut scenes between two characters gets old really fast. Although, you can skip those scenes easily enough.

I have to agree with you, Pointless. If ascended was like 30% better in stats than exotic, then maybe the extra work(and it is work, not fun, imo)….then just maybe the extra effort might be worth it. As it is, it’s a ton of extra work for basically a show off skin with minimal stat advantage. I won’t ever be intentionally going after it…..if an ascended mat drops here or there that I can use in my casual playtime, then I might go ahead and craft an ascended item……but it certainly is nowhere of a game breaker if I never have ascended or legendary…..my exotic gear works just fine.