Guild Wars 2

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Within the limitations of MF (it only works on loot dropped from foes you kill and containers that substitute for the same, plus a tiny number of oddball exceptions), accounts with high MF will, over time, end up with more valuable loot.

Like any RNG system, high MF won’t guarantee you get the unlikeliest of drops and it won’t guarantee that you’ll always have good drops. It just ensures that you’ll have better results than you would have without high MF.

Did you forget that every RNG based system has what are known as statistical anomalies and out-liers ?

This means that the person with x may (generally does in the case of GW2 from personal experiences) have better luck than the person with x+200%. Even more to the point, if MF is such a great boon (300% base) then on average no player should go without seeing a random rare(quality) drop in an average hour long play session. But i can guarantee it happens more often than it statistically should.

Ohoni.6057:

The status quo fits the targeted audience. What you’re asking for is akin to targeting adult movies to little kids. It’s not the design. But once they kids grow up they sure as heck can start watching those movies.

This is not a standalone project, like a single movie. It is a component of a larger whole, and the entire audience must be considered. The audience is the entire game population, and there’s zero evidence that raids currently work for that audience as a whole. Successfully appealing to a very small fragment of that audience is not necessarily a worthwhile goal if it leaves the remainder feeling left out. The only way you can successfully target a tiny portion of the total audience is if you also do right by the remainder.

I think we can agree that they’ve successfully sated the small target audience, but now we have to figure out how to sate the remainder.

Yet again you’re missing the point. Intentionally at that.

Raids are not designed for everyone. If they were they’d be called OPEN WORLD content, not Raids, not Challenging Group content, not The Ultimate End Game challenge.

They are not meant for every tom, joe and marry; And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that philosophy. There is other content out there meant for everyone go play that.

Guild missions are largely pointless….they give me things i already have or have no desire for.

Additionally while i wouldn’t mind spending more time with my guild it is nearly impossible for ANet to design and balance guild specific content as it can range from 1 person to 500.

Ohoni.6057:

If they aren’t willing, then they don’t get it and it doesn’t need a solution. It’s that simple.

No, that’s just repeating the problem, not defining a solution to it. Ok, let me rephrase. Say you’re working for a business, and you’ve determined that the status quo does not adequately service a significant portion of your customer-base, but that you could make some reasonable alternatives that would serve that customer-base, increasing your profits. What would you do about it?

Poor analogy.

The status quo fits the targeted audience. What you’re asking for is akin to targeting adult movies to little kids. It’s not the design. But once they kids grow up they sure as heck can start watching those movies.

Ohoni.6057:

But again, even players that are more casual would like to have the best possible chances of clearing the content, and any significant class imbalance makes that more difficult for them if the class they have is a poor performer.

Lets not lie, you don’t want the best possible chance. If you wanted that you’d improve, find a guild and raid.

What you want is to be that guy, you know the one….he’s part of the world boss zerg fest who just sits there and auto-cast auto attack. That’s what you’re actually looking for and its a disgrace.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

The core game still exist and plenty of area’s in HoT are casual friendly. The only “hard content” added was raids which was promised as a feature of the expansion….

If you have a problem with this you really shouldn’t, as there’s nothing stopping you from enjoying the rest of the game aside from you.

You can try and spin the blame on ANet or Raids but at the end of the day it’s a you issue as a consumer.

Hard content is not a problem. Problem started when it was made as only endgame content, along with 10 years old model to introduce it.

Fractals exist, your argument is moot. They too were intended to reshape the endgame content area. They’ve had several iterations because they didnt quite meet expectations but that does not change the fact that the game has had endgame content for more time than you’re giving it credit for.

Ohoni.6057:

A lot of that boils down to “you aren’t meant to enjoy any of this, AT ALL, if you don’t enjoy playing the game how I enjoy playing the game.” I think that’s a statement that a lot of people agree with, which is why there’s such a push for alternate versions of the content, because the current version does not and will never work for most players, and most players want to be happy regardless.

It’s not meant for “most players”. It’s meant as challenging end-game content. It’s meant to push you to do things outside of your general comfort zone and make you actually think and react properly in some stressful combat scenarios.

Again though you’re conflating happy and viable as a reason to change the identity of raids. Go raid…Go start your own group and be happy. Sure you likely wont succeed but that isn’t a case to say that raids failed and dont work or simply aren’t enjoyable. They just aren’t enjoyable for you because you choose to let them be that way.

Rednik.3809:

Harper.4173:

Yes it does take a lot of time and resources invested if you want to raid. But OTHERS are raiding and that means it is doable.
The only problem is that others aren’t willing to bother but still want the benefits of raiding. Without having to actually do the things required.

It’s like me demanding that I get the Exalted Backpiece item skin because I bought HoT and because I want it.
I don’t want to work for it and do Tarir and events to get the collection done – I just want the item – so Anet give it to me because it’s content and I paid for the expansion.

Don’t give me the “timeframe argument” – there are raid groups from EVERY timezone.
I’m on the US server and play on EU time – so I know what it’s like to have difficulty with raiding because of time zones. I found people in my time zone though – I went to the effort of doing it and I did.
And when I couldn’t I made the effort and raided at 3 AM with the US people. Because if you want to do something then you have to sacrifice something.

Most raiding guilds have more than one team – and you can always make your own group.

The logistic I “seemingly take for granted” is there for me because I actually bothered to do things in order to make that logistic happen.
I geared up my characters so I could get into a good raiding guild. I talked to people – I found people in my timezone.
When I couldn’t run with a static group I made PUG groups and led the raid myself – because I wanted the kills and knew nobody was going to do stuff for me unless I did it myself.

Next thing I hear is that starting the game is hard too.

Next thing you hear is that there is a lot of unsatisfied customers, who bought this game when it was advertised as something new and not wow-like, and now you here, and telling everyone that its fine and working as intended. You like it? Great. But who are you to tell everyone else that your opinion is only right one?
No one even asking for same loot, or raid legendaries, or nerfing current raids, people just want some godkitten decent way to learn and get into raids. No, your teaching guilds is not that one, and will never be, because its developers work to create a proper way into content, not waiting for some unknown people who may, or may not do it due to various reasons.
And yet all that I hear here is “no, you must do what I did, because I said so”.

The core game still exist and plenty of area’s in HoT are casual friendly. The only “hard content” added was raids which was promised as a feature of the expansion….

If you have a problem with this you really shouldn’t, as there’s nothing stopping you from enjoying the rest of the game aside from you.

You can try and spin the blame on ANet or Raids but at the end of the day it’s a you issue as a consumer.

You’re not missing much.

Pretty sure the OP is just disappointed that the only news from E3 was to “look out for more news”. Ironically this goes pretty much against what Mo has been preaching which is less hype, more quality.

Ohoni.6057:

It would be a bad idea to make raids any more easy than they currently are considering timers can be ignored completely in a good group, and you can skip a lot of mechanics with good dps e.g no updraft Gorseval.

That opinion may hold true for you, and if so, then an easier mode would probably not be fun for you and you’d be happiest avoiding it, just understand that what you would enjoy is not what everyone would enjoy, and that what you need or do not need out of the raid has no bearing on what other players might need from it.

…So everyone’s opinion is invalid because you have to have your way ?

How about you actually go and raid before trying to critique them any further. As is no one takes your post with a grain of salt because they know you have not, nor will not give raids an adequate chance.

Maybe if you did, you’d realize that dumbing down the raid any further would actually be an insult to their core design of being challenging end game content.

I’d love it if the Raid training area was actually kinda overhauled.

Leave the initial DPS golem, but then give commanders a way to create a raid instance state for practicing, no times, visible phase notifications, and perhaps a summary generated per person like the PvP after match summary.

FrostDraco.8306:

Sarrs.4831:

I don’t understand why this thread exists

ANet’s already said that they want to add a MF recipe for +7AR+5stat shouldn’t that be the end of it?

But they didn’t. Did you read the thread?

Due to a gamebreaking bug. So tl;dr it’s coming soon or a revision to AR as a whole is.

You PvP… select a reward track and get the weapons/armor that way. It’s probably the cheapest, albeit all luck based way you’re going to get it.

Join a guild and do guild missions for some ascended trinkets. WvW badges / laurels can be used as well.

Not useful in the slightest.

RNG is RNG and no amount of MF will change players having no good RNG.

Ging.6485:

TexZero.7910:

Ging.6485:

TexZero.7910:

Ging.6485:

TexZero.7910:

Ging.6485:

The problem that exists is not unique to raids. Before raids the problem existed with dungeons and to an extent fractals. It’s a toxic competitive environment where the majority of the player base doesn’t want one. Fractals have become a once a day endeavor that are to some extent trivial enough to not bother the majority of people requiring perfection, but raids are intrinsically not that type of gameplay element.

While I was thinking about how to eliminate the toxicity from raiding, I came up with one idea that would probably kitten off a lot of people. That is, make all encounters pass / fail.

By that I mean, remove any extra reward gained from completing an encounter optimally. By any reward I mean even the time you save by having great DPS and awesome skill.

For Example : Making VG an 8 minute fight, period. Putting in artificial barriers that prevent a group from beating it in less than 8 minutes. What would this do? It would mean that, any group capable of beating the boss would be just as good as the best possible group capable of beating the boss. After all, there would be no difference in the outcome.

This isn’t really my idea as a player, it’s more of the idea I came up with to solve the problem of a min/max mentality while at the same time not compromising the challenging aspect of the encounter.

This is literally the worst idea possible.

Forcing the fights to all be a certain length removes any essence of player skill, build diversity and creativity. The short and narrow of your solution is well if i can’t do it in 4 1/2 minutes, no one should be and everyone should have to suffer. Talk about taking steps backwards.

It’s wrong to assume there’s extra rewards for completing this quickly, the only extra reward is piece of mind and some extra time in your day to do whatever you want.

It’s also in the best interest of the game to give PvE players a place for them to test themselves as a group, an facet of the game where they can strive for improvement….something your system completely ignores. Doing that is in part what lead to this notion that GW2 is somehow meant for the casual everyman at all parts of the game. This is patently false. The game has a plethora of diverse content and raids do not need to see any change to dumb down, artificially lengthen or otherwise change their essence.

I told you it would make you mad.

However it is a solution for PuG toxicity. Because what the hostile environment around PuGs stems from is the fact that someone constantly keeps raising the bar, and once that bar is raised everyone expects everyone else to be able to meet that standard, instantly. It would be like if a school structured its entire curriculum around its most gifted student, and when that student proved that he could overcome a challenge, then the school would present an even more challenging curriculum regardless of how the other students are fairing. As is the case with GW2, this would cause a lot of students to drop out.

The idea I presented basically says that the bar is cemented. No one can raise it, all you need is for people to learn how to clear it. You can set that bar higher every new encounter, but it must not be alterable by the player base, lest you create a highly competitive environment that alienates a lot of people.

No it doesn’t make me mad. A few other sorts of words come to mind.

The idea doesn’t solve any problem and only serves as a very narrow minded viewpoint.

I won’t argue that it wouldn’t create other problems.

It’s pretty much exchanging the frying pan for the fire. A lot of people find a lot of fun when it comes to trying out different comps and finding the optimal way to beat a boss. I myself do always strive to make myself better. However, you can’t turn a blind eye to murder just because it was your best friend who committed it. The thing that is driving the core raid community is also what is contributing to the alienation to the non-raiding GW2 community.

Love the extreme jump and comparing a game to a crime. Really helps selling the point.

But since you brought up the topic of murder, the only thing your idea does is murder creativity. The current system at best is like ignoring a drunkard in public. Doesn’t harm nor hurt you in any shape or form. Could you help them out, get them someplace better sure. But it’s not your civil duty to be their babysitter.

You are right. My point is that we are all forced to be drunk in public. Destructive, but the drunkard won’t be complaining about the sober people looking down on him.

Or they could stop drinking….or is in this scenario form their own social group to raid with where in no one is looking down on them.

Ging.6485:

TexZero.7910:

Ging.6485:

TexZero.7910:

Ging.6485:

The problem that exists is not unique to raids. Before raids the problem existed with dungeons and to an extent fractals. It’s a toxic competitive environment where the majority of the player base doesn’t want one. Fractals have become a once a day endeavor that are to some extent trivial enough to not bother the majority of people requiring perfection, but raids are intrinsically not that type of gameplay element.

While I was thinking about how to eliminate the toxicity from raiding, I came up with one idea that would probably kitten off a lot of people. That is, make all encounters pass / fail.

By that I mean, remove any extra reward gained from completing an encounter optimally. By any reward I mean even the time you save by having great DPS and awesome skill.

For Example : Making VG an 8 minute fight, period. Putting in artificial barriers that prevent a group from beating it in less than 8 minutes. What would this do? It would mean that, any group capable of beating the boss would be just as good as the best possible group capable of beating the boss. After all, there would be no difference in the outcome.

This isn’t really my idea as a player, it’s more of the idea I came up with to solve the problem of a min/max mentality while at the same time not compromising the challenging aspect of the encounter.

This is literally the worst idea possible.

Forcing the fights to all be a certain length removes any essence of player skill, build diversity and creativity. The short and narrow of your solution is well if i can’t do it in 4 1/2 minutes, no one should be and everyone should have to suffer. Talk about taking steps backwards.

It’s wrong to assume there’s extra rewards for completing this quickly, the only extra reward is piece of mind and some extra time in your day to do whatever you want.

It’s also in the best interest of the game to give PvE players a place for them to test themselves as a group, an facet of the game where they can strive for improvement….something your system completely ignores. Doing that is in part what lead to this notion that GW2 is somehow meant for the casual everyman at all parts of the game. This is patently false. The game has a plethora of diverse content and raids do not need to see any change to dumb down, artificially lengthen or otherwise change their essence.

I told you it would make you mad.

However it is a solution for PuG toxicity. Because what the hostile environment around PuGs stems from is the fact that someone constantly keeps raising the bar, and once that bar is raised everyone expects everyone else to be able to meet that standard, instantly. It would be like if a school structured its entire curriculum around its most gifted student, and when that student proved that he could overcome a challenge, then the school would present an even more challenging curriculum regardless of how the other students are fairing. As is the case with GW2, this would cause a lot of students to drop out.

The idea I presented basically says that the bar is cemented. No one can raise it, all you need is for people to learn how to clear it. You can set that bar higher every new encounter, but it must not be alterable by the player base, lest you create a highly competitive environment that alienates a lot of people.

No it doesn’t make me mad. A few other sorts of words come to mind.

The idea doesn’t solve any problem and only serves as a very narrow minded viewpoint.

I won’t argue that it wouldn’t create other problems.

It’s pretty much exchanging the frying pan for the fire. A lot of people find a lot of fun when it comes to trying out different comps and finding the optimal way to beat a boss. I myself do always strive to make myself better. However, you can’t turn a blind eye to murder just because it was your best friend who committed it. The thing that is driving the core raid community is also what is contributing to the alienation to the non-raiding GW2 community.

Love the extreme jump and comparing a game to a crime. Really helps selling the point.

But since you brought up the topic of murder, the only thing your idea does is murder creativity. The current system at best is like ignoring a drunkard in public. Doesn’t harm nor hurt you in any shape or form. Could you help them out, get them someplace better sure. But it’s not your civil duty to be their babysitter.

Ging.6485:

TexZero.7910:

Ging.6485:

The problem that exists is not unique to raids. Before raids the problem existed with dungeons and to an extent fractals. It’s a toxic competitive environment where the majority of the player base doesn’t want one. Fractals have become a once a day endeavor that are to some extent trivial enough to not bother the majority of people requiring perfection, but raids are intrinsically not that type of gameplay element.

While I was thinking about how to eliminate the toxicity from raiding, I came up with one idea that would probably kitten off a lot of people. That is, make all encounters pass / fail.

By that I mean, remove any extra reward gained from completing an encounter optimally. By any reward I mean even the time you save by having great DPS and awesome skill.

For Example : Making VG an 8 minute fight, period. Putting in artificial barriers that prevent a group from beating it in less than 8 minutes. What would this do? It would mean that, any group capable of beating the boss would be just as good as the best possible group capable of beating the boss. After all, there would be no difference in the outcome.

This isn’t really my idea as a player, it’s more of the idea I came up with to solve the problem of a min/max mentality while at the same time not compromising the challenging aspect of the encounter.

This is literally the worst idea possible.

Forcing the fights to all be a certain length removes any essence of player skill, build diversity and creativity. The short and narrow of your solution is well if i can’t do it in 4 1/2 minutes, no one should be and everyone should have to suffer. Talk about taking steps backwards.

It’s wrong to assume there’s extra rewards for completing this quickly, the only extra reward is piece of mind and some extra time in your day to do whatever you want.

It’s also in the best interest of the game to give PvE players a place for them to test themselves as a group, an facet of the game where they can strive for improvement….something your system completely ignores. Doing that is in part what lead to this notion that GW2 is somehow meant for the casual everyman at all parts of the game. This is patently false. The game has a plethora of diverse content and raids do not need to see any change to dumb down, artificially lengthen or otherwise change their essence.

I told you it would make you mad.

However it is a solution for PuG toxicity. Because what the hostile environment around PuGs stems from is the fact that someone constantly keeps raising the bar, and once that bar is raised everyone expects everyone else to be able to meet that standard, instantly. It would be like if a school structured its entire curriculum around its most gifted student, and when that student proved that he could overcome a challenge, then the school would present an even more challenging curriculum regardless of how the other students are fairing. As is the case with GW2, this would cause a lot of students to drop out.

The idea I presented basically says that the bar is cemented. No one can raise it, all you need is for people to learn how to clear it. You can set that bar higher every new encounter, but it must not be alterable by the player base, lest you create a highly competitive environment that alienates a lot of people.

No it doesn’t make me mad. A few other sorts of words come to mind.

The idea doesn’t solve any problem and only serves as a very narrow minded viewpoint.

Ging.6485:

The problem that exists is not unique to raids. Before raids the problem existed with dungeons and to an extent fractals. It’s a toxic competitive environment where the majority of the player base doesn’t want one. Fractals have become a once a day endeavor that are to some extent trivial enough to not bother the majority of people requiring perfection, but raids are intrinsically not that type of gameplay element.

While I was thinking about how to eliminate the toxicity from raiding, I came up with one idea that would probably kitten off a lot of people. That is, make all encounters pass / fail.

By that I mean, remove any extra reward gained from completing an encounter optimally. By any reward I mean even the time you save by having great DPS and awesome skill.

For Example : Making VG an 8 minute fight, period. Putting in artificial barriers that prevent a group from beating it in less than 8 minutes. What would this do? It would mean that, any group capable of beating the boss would be just as good as the best possible group capable of beating the boss. After all, there would be no difference in the outcome.

This isn’t really my idea as a player, it’s more of the idea I came up with to solve the problem of a min/max mentality while at the same time not compromising the challenging aspect of the encounter.

This is literally the worst idea possible.

Forcing the fights to all be a certain length removes any essence of player skill, build diversity and creativity. The short and narrow of your solution is well if i can’t do it in 4 1/2 minutes, no one should be and everyone should have to suffer. Talk about taking steps backwards.

It’s wrong to assume there’s extra rewards for completing this quickly, the only extra reward is piece of mind and some extra time in your day to do whatever you want.

It’s also in the best interest of the game to give PvE players a place for them to test themselves as a group, an facet of the game where they can strive for improvement….something your system completely ignores. Doing that is in part what lead to this notion that GW2 is somehow meant for the casual everyman at all parts of the game. This is patently false. The game has a plethora of diverse content and raids do not need to see any change to dumb down, artificially lengthen or otherwise change their essence.

Dinosaurs.8674:

TexZero.7910:

Fact, nothing Anet has done has changed your ability to create a group. This is irrefutable.

I’m on the “raids are accessible already” side of this argument, but this statement is pretty unfair. While you are technically right that it is just as easy to create a group as it has always been, it is harder to actually fill that group simply because of the jump from five to ten man squads.

The resources are definitely out there for newer players to get into raiding, but there’s no point in pretending that it’s super easy and you can just log on any time and start learning. It takes a certain (not unreasonable) amount of time and effort.

To which i’d say raids aren’t aimed at newer players. This is where the socializing aspect comes into play. You should aim to find players with a like mind early on during your gameplay get into a guild / add friends etc. Such that when you’re actually ready all you have to do is get 4-5 friends/ guildmates and start pugging with the most basic of lfg request.

Alternatively use the already existing setups for raid teaching guilds. A special note for those in EU who are going to complain about a lack of these, start forming your own, nothing is stopping you from doing so.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

This is due to your misuse and false equivocation of the term “accessible”. You view it as plug and play. That is not what raids are about and thus you view is grossly going to be distorted when it comes to what is and is not accessible.

Your constant sentences about true and only definitions of various subjects are quite amusing. Are you Anet employee, or maybe you have a vote in their management council? Because otherwise all your sentences are opinions and can be regarded only as such. And they are not more important than opinions of other people here.

The sign you have nothing more to say – ad hominems.

I guess it really is hard for you to dispute the fact presented.

Blaeys.3102:

Absurdo.8309:

Blaeys.3102:

TexZero.7910:

Blaeys.3102:

Again – about degrees. I’m not saying it was completely stamped out, just that with raids, they really have deviated from their typical approach to community and content accessibility – resulting in a much higher level of this kind of thing.

Literally and patently false.

Nothing they’ve done has changed or removed your ability to get into the content. Nothing they’ve done has removed your tools to form your own groups.

Again, this is your opinion, just as what I have said is my opinion. It is why I stress this conversation isn’t about absolutes – its about degrees.

This is all based on the perspective we bring to the situation.

There is a actually a great book about this from Umberto Eco entitled Kant and the Platypus. It talks about how our personal and cultural experiences/beliefs form our opinions and even our definitions of things around us – even those we hold to be sacrosanct (which you apparently do with the above).

In short, our personal perspectives define our personal realities. That is where our divergent opinions come from.

I respect that your opinion is different than mine. If you cannot find a way to respect the same of mine, then there is no point in the two of us continuing to contradict one another. It will just become a vicious circle with no end.

Sorry, there’s no reason to respect an opinion of you don’t put anything behind it.

Claim: Raids are not assessible because it’s hard to find a group to play with.

Response: It’s actually pretty easy if you make an lfg post or join a guild.

Reply: But it’s my opinion.

If all of your replies are just “it’s my opinion”, them it’s rational to dismiss them. It’s no longer a dialog — instead it’s a soapbox.

Debating the differences between our opinions is healthy – and what the forums should be all about.

As a good example, you and I have had some really good conversations about our differences of opinion, while still respecting that they are just that – our opinions.

But when the basis of someone’s argument is “what I say are the facts and thereby what you say is invalid – so now stop talking” over and over with no new argument or dialogue (which is what has happened here), then the process falls apart.

Mutual respect and a willingness to continue the dialogue. That is all I am asking for.

When you dismiss facts as opinion you’re shutting down any chance at civil discourse.

Fact, nothing Anet has done has changed your ability to create a group. This is irrefutable.

It’s your choice not to use the tools available to you which is putting you in your perceived state of inaccessibility.

This is due to your misuse and false equivocation of the term “accessible”. You view it as plug and play. That is not what raids are about and thus you view is grossly going to be distorted when it comes to what is and is not accessible.

Blaeys.3102:

Again – about degrees. I’m not saying it was completely stamped out, just that with raids, they really have deviated from their typical approach to community and content accessibility – resulting in a much higher level of this kind of thing.

Literally and patently false.

Nothing they’ve done has changed or removed your ability to get into the content. Nothing they’ve done has removed your tools to form your own groups.

The claim that raids have an accessibility issue is getting pretty absurd. Yet again it comes down to the group of people who refuse to form their own group pandering for anet to fix a non-existent problem.

Blaeys.3102:

TexZero.7910:

Funny, what you claim to want….Is exactly what we have now.

Again, this is about opinion and degrees – which vary based on your perspective and how you play the game. Not everyone believes that what we have now is inclusive at all.

What opinion ?

We have

Easy content
Dungeons, World Bosses (ex TT), mini-dungeons, jumping puzzles, personal story, living world story

Medium content
Fractals (requires some knowledge of mechanics and has a minor barrier to entry in growing AR)

Hard
Raids

No opinion there, there’s diversity and the majority of content is inclusive.

Raids by their nature are not meant to be inclusive to all, but rather all that want to be included in them and put forth the effort to do so. This is no different than any aspect of the game.

Dungeons utilize the same LFG tool raids do, and yet you seem to think this is working fine even with the exclusionary post that are on those and used to be seen on them. So i fail to see how one could reasonably complain about raids.

If players want Inclusive groups, it’s on them to form that type of environment. If people want to set unreasonable expectations for players to join that’s on them.

So use the dang tools and form the type of group you want instead of complaining that there’s a systemic failure when clearly the only failure is on the people for not using the tools at their disposal.

Blaeys.3102:

I want a game in which all PVE modes are built first and foremost around the idea of community and accessibility, which Anet succeeded brilliantly in providing at launch a few years ago.

After that exists, I definitely want challenging content – throughout the game. I just don’t want it at the expense of the more important concepts of community and accessibility.

Funny, what you claim to want….Is exactly what we have now.

We have multiple modes and avenues of play for the groups you mention. So please explain why Raids have to suffer for this ?

Why do Raids specifically irk you so much that you’ve put on blinders to the fact that raids are accessible by anyone who is willing to do so ?
The tools are there for all players to unite and play with like minded players and yet somehow it’s a problem ?

If anything is the problem it’s the player base who still refuses to use the tools available to them. I will not stop harking on this point because what you claim the problem with “raids inclusiveness” being an issue is actually a legit joke as the same content you praise for accessibility (dungeons) has the exact same ways of filtering players.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I like the pointing out that they screwed up by switching to 10 man content.

I’m struggling to think of a reason the raids couldn’t have a 5-man version, which a straight 50% hp reduction to everything in there.

Effectively they would be slightly tougher dps checks, but that would be so much easier to deal with in a 5-man group.

Now that I think about it I really want a 5-man version of the raids.
Without doubt finding 9 players (as opposed to finding 4) is the single biggest blocker to the content..

Edit: break bars would need to be cut in half too..

5 man hard content (Sounds eerily familiar) ….Fractals

Can’t market that very well for an expansion. Especially when you’re already on the we’re fixing fractals campaign.

Blaeys.3102:

Setz.9675:

Rednik.3809:

Setz.9675:

The ‘badly designed entrance barrier’ is made by players, get a grip. I did VG with 0 LI, where can I collect my medal? You are talking about pug players here with ‘fairly high’ experience and don’t want to carry players or waste time sorting their kitten out. Is it extreme? Sure it is but this is not Anets fault nor is this how the majority of raiders work with. Stop projecting your pug experience as global raid community issues.

No. It’s EXCLUSIVELY Anet fault, big, huge, massive design fault, taken right from some ancient 10 years old WoW design document, because this is how community works in situation like this.
Lots of people who want to raid but too inexperienced, solid raider core who don’t give a kitten about them (why should they, there is no rewards after reset. Yeah, tell me about teaching guilds, which is 3 for WHOLE EU), and a pug crowd, with a 80 LI demand for VG run because they don’t want to see inexperienced guys.
But hey, this is not anet fault, that’s your fault, GW2 was advertised as game with a raiding PvE endgame from the very beginning, right?

I’m not a smart person but could you point out any game where players could not discriminate against others with regards to these sort of arbitrary requirements?

It really is a matter of degrees. Yes, there will be some of this in pretty much any MMO (and other life examples as well), but there is a point where it becomes considerably worse.

The example I would give you of a game that really discouraged this kind of behavior is pretty easy – GW2 at launch and during the first 3 years.

The developers went out of their way to address the more antisocial aspects of MMO game play. Shared resource nodes, individual loot tables (which other MMOs are now mimicking), scalable content from lvls 1-80, scalable dungeons, fractal levels, equalized gear in PvP, attempts to balance populations in WvW, quickly addressing toxic farming behavior, an accessible end game model, etc. – these were fairly new concepts with GW2 – mostly designed to combat the elitism we saw in other games.

That is what brought me (and many others) to this game. We were tired of someone who could kill a pixelated dragon a few seconds faster than someone else thinking that somehow made them a better person – and game systems that supported that distorted perspective.

Anet has always cared about that kind of thing. The problem with raiding in GW2, imo, is that they didn’t apply that same filter to this content when building the foundational system, and now we are seeing the results.

There are some EXTREMELY creative people at ANet. It saddens me that they didn’t apply the same creativity to this in raids the same way they did to the rest of the game early on.

Uh what ?

LFG, Forums, Reddit etc… It’s not Anets fault if people do not socialize and form groups. It’s the people’s.

Anet gave you all the tools, if you refuse to use them, if you refuse to create your own inclusive group, you are the source of your problem and nothing Anet can do will solve that.

Anet has done a fantastic job at making the game inclusive to everyone, including as they have done with raids. No fight takes more than 15 minutes. You can literally once you’ve learned the content (no different than any part of this game), go in and do it.

So…please explain how this is Anet’s failure and not on the players.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

The frequency of it showing up isn’t actually cause to think the case is valid. Especially when you’re talking about the same 4 users posting the topic on a near weekly basis depending on the last closed thread date.

Try to visit Reddit some day, you know, place where anet devs are really answers to players unlike this forum, and then tell me more about 4 people.

TexZero.7910:

Additionally if the problem was, as wide spread as to be believed you’d see a much much much larger outcry (HoT Price thread comes to mind). Right now this is much ado about nothing from a very vocal minority who have yet to, for whatever reason they chose attempt to raid, attempt to lead a raid, attempt to join the current raiding scene/community. That’s on them to fix, not any new mode, not any lower difficulty. If you don’t want to work toward a goal, then you probably don’t deserve any sort of special treatment nor any rewards garnered by players who do.

Interesting words, especially from REAL vocal minority, who trying to deny others from experiencing raids, because they are dare to not overcome badly designed entrance barrier by all costs, but instead asking devs to pay attention to their flaws.
Here, fun example for you, fresh from LFR.

And where is your own ?

’nuff said.

Jahroots.6791:

Setz.9675:

Kicking down the difficulty to the generic open world content and turning raids into a weekly faceroll farm isn’t going to bring value to either the casual player or tryhard raider.

The entire problem with this game is that after 3 years of receiving handout content where you run braindead in a zerg to claim loot has created the most lazy and entitled crowd I’ve ever seen in a video game to date.

The real laziness on these forums comes in the form of hyperbolic, bull-kitten reasoning and weak, reductive arguments.

Case in point:

Setz.9675:

This entire discussion of different difficulty scales boils down to:
*Add infantile mode so braindead people with no class comprehension can clear raids.
*Players need to start being dedicated towards the goals they wish to achieve in the game.

Look, each type of game content is enjoyed in a myriad of ways for just as many reasons. You can’t say adding tiered difficulty isn’t going to bring value, because it certainly will to at least some players. The real bottom line is whether there are enough of them to warrant the time and resources needed. The frequency of this topic popping up does suggest that this is the case.

And there is absolutely no inherent value in a particular approach to gaming. Trying to put down players as lazy and entitled is silly. Video games, particularly MMOs, are essentially fun ways of passing time. This is also arguably one of the laziest hobbies ever. Barring a few exceptions (E-Sports and Pro Streamers) whether you take gaming seriously or not, makes no difference. All that matters is individual enjoyment.

The frequency of it showing up isn’t actually cause to think the case is valid. Especially when you’re talking about the same 4 users posting the topic on a near weekly basis depending on the last closed thread date.

Additionally if the problem was, as wide spread as to be believed you’d see a much much much larger outcry (HoT Price thread comes to mind). Right now this is much ado about nothing from a very vocal minority who have yet to, for whatever reason they chose attempt to raid, attempt to lead a raid, attempt to join the current raiding scene/community. That’s on them to fix, not any new mode, not any lower difficulty. If you don’t want to work toward a goal, then you probably don’t deserve any sort of special treatment nor any rewards garnered by players who do.

Blaeys.3102:

TexZero.7910:

So why should Anet, pander to you guys when the people who are currently raiding, have been able to use the tools available to them to prove that there are barriers except those you impose upon yourself.

Because it’s not pandering – it is making a logical compromise to meet a customer and a community desire. It is also expanding the game mode to include more players and, potentially, generate greater interest in raiding – thereby creating a greater pool of potential lfg (and static group) raiders (helping fix what many see as the biggest issues with raids now).

Current raids meet or exceed the expected participation levels according to everything Anet has said.

Why should they revamp the wheel again to cater(pander) to those that don’t even make the attempts to use the tools that are in-game when there’s already plenty of proof that the system is working and working well ?

I’d also like you to keep in mind that Raids are not meant for everyman/woman/child/amorphous blob/cat etc…. to play and complete. That is a unreasonable expectation.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Oh good so less than 80% of the accounts have an gw2e account and 80% of those have 1 airship part. What a marginally insignificant number.

Thanks stats class!

Do you have another statistical pool to show me? Maybe you can prove that 100k+ gw2e pool is somehow different from the rest of players? No, of course you don’t. For some reason you just straight refusing to believe to clear facts even when they are presented right near your face.

You’re using the word fact, but seemingly don’t understand what relevant stats are. Neither you, nor I have the adequate numbers to be making any claim based on those %’s as they are about as accurate as Voting Poll numbers prior to polls being anywhere near closed.

So here’s the facts

People want to raid, but aren’t putting the effort into raiding. Those same people are on these forums begging for a change. They make various claims as to the reason for change including “Ease, Reward, Lore, Training” and yet none of those groups of players for whatever reason can be bothered to talk to eachother and form groups.

So why should Anet, pander to you guys when the people who are currently raiding, have been able to use the tools available to them to prove that there are barriers except those you impose upon yourself.

Rednik.3809:

Tornupto.2304:

And how many ppl have an efficiency account? Another question would be: what ppl have an efficiency account? Do those who play like 1 or 2 hours a week have one? I don’t think so, but who knows?

100k+ atm, numbers are on their page.

Oh good so less than 80% of the accounts have an gw2e account and 80% of those have 1 airship part. What a marginally insignificant number.

Thanks stats class!

Galtrix.7369:

TexZero.7910:

From what i can recall its supposed to prioritize

Legendary
Champion
Elite
Vet
Normal

After that then Closest -> Furthest

That’s highly illogical. Every single mmorpg in the history of ever has made it so tab targets the closest enemy. If it wasn’t automatically preset to that, there was always an option to make it so.

There is an option to make it so. Infact there’s several options for targetting…perhaps you know hit that f11 key and fix it for yourself ?

From what i can recall its supposed to prioritize

Legendary
Champion
Elite
Vet
Normal

After that then Closest → Furthest

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Depends on how many of those alleged 40k players are serious about raiding.

Fun fact – 90+% of players according to gw2e have at least 1 fractal relic. That means that 9/10 of gw2 players tried and successfully did previous endgame PvE content at least once, even on easiest difficulty. For raids that number still remaining on 44%. So 9/10 of players had at least some interest to endgame PvE before, and you think that now this interest somehow magically disappeared?

Fun fact. Not everything is for everyone. Not everyone purchased the expansion therefore your attempt to make stats meaningful is really misguided and misplaced.

Additionally since you love to use such broken statistical examples, can you give me the % of people who use the forums and gw2 reddit and gw2e since you’re really good at using whatever stat that matters to you. While your at it can you give me the % that is players that use all 3 mediums so we can have an accurate representation.

But you know, still goes back to what i was saying….easier to sit here and complain than actually take action yourself.

I bet if you went ingame on EU right now, and posted a very general “Wing 1 Learning Run” you’d be able to fill it. Perhaps you could even go as far as to make a guild, or add those people to your friendslist and start you know mingling with that strata that wants to raid.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Use it or don’t. You have the choice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4pe4jy/can_we_get_a_directory_of_guilds_that_teach_raids/

I’m done with the seemingly “impossible to get into raids” argument. Goes back to my point, if you want more teaching guilds get off the forums and build one for the EU community.

So, how many guilds should be built to teach 40k+ people who want to raid, according to gw2e player numbers and reddit survey percentage?
Again, you are proposing to solve famine problem with a charity soup kitchen. Real problem is bigger and need another solution, from above.

Depends on how many of those alleged 40k players are serious about raiding. My estimate would be about 2% so….You’re likely looking at 2400 players so roughly what…5 full guilds Not a big deal.

But you know see above easier to whine and complain that take that first step yourself.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

You act like the raids are some sorta supernatural and impossible task…

Seeing as i’ve lead teaching groups personally, i can assure you that as long as you’re not a stubborn person and are willing to actually “learn”, you too can do the raid. Unfortunately, given your post history you seem to think everyone who raids frequently is either toxic or elitist which doesn’t lend itself well to teaching.

As for why this is a bad idea, i’ve already said why. This isn’t a compromise. It’s a give me unique loot for walking through easy mode. Given past incarnations of easy mode elements in this game, you wont ever see this. They may let you experience the lore and environment one day, but you can be sure a sin they wont be giving you unique raid rewards for doing a story mode.

This learning topic was beaten to death already, and reddit had a lot of good compilations about it.
There is not enough learning groups (especially on EU), there is not enough encounters covered by learning groups, and there is still a BIG pug problem in form of LI+killproof demands. So you have problems to learn basic encounters, then you have problems to learn rest of encounters, and then you have problem to find a group even after you learn them. And raiding guild often have same demands as pug groups – LI+exp.
People really need some form of raids to learn on, or this will never end well. Ancient raid model died out everywhere, but for some reason anet decided to resurrect it in one of most unsuitable games for it.

Use it or don’t. You have the choice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4pe4jy/can_we_get_a_directory_of_guilds_that_teach_raids/

I’m done with the seemingly “impossible to get into raids” argument. Goes back to my point, if you want more teaching guilds get off the forums and build one for the EU community.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

It’s 100 times easier to complain about the process than actually take an effort to change the problem yourself.

Source, any “Functional Society”.

There’s an old adage “Those who can do, Those who can’t teach”….I think it’s time to update that for the 21st century. “Those who can do; Those who can’t, teach and Those that wont, complain.”

So people was able to adapt to anything else in this game and now suddenly they all complaining and refusing to adapt? People not asking for raid nerfs, or raid rewards for free, they asking about something they can learn and become better.
But you for some unknown reason preferring to say “no, you should learn to drive car by jumping in and ride right into highway traffic, because I did it before you”. There is exactly zero reason behind this, only stubbornness and “no, because I say no”.

You act like the raids are some sorta supernatural and impossible task…

Seeing as i’ve lead teaching groups personally, i can assure you that as long as you’re not a stubborn person and are willing to actually “learn”, you too can do the raid. Unfortunately, given your post history you seem to think everyone who raids frequently is either toxic or elitist which doesn’t lend itself well to teaching.

As for why this is a bad idea, i’ve already said why. This isn’t a compromise. It’s a give me unique loot for walking through easy mode. Given past incarnations of easy mode elements in this game, you wont ever see this. They may let you experience the lore and environment one day, but you can be sure a sin they wont be giving you unique raid rewards for doing a story mode.

Blaeys.3102:

TexZero.7910:

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Because talking to other players is super difficult……

It’s almost like those allegedly exclusive guilds aren’t recruiting or something…..Oh wait reddit/gw2 forums and even in game daily there’s adverts for guilds.

According to reddit survey, there is like total 40+% players who want to try raiding. If raid teaching is so widely accessible, then why these numbers are so high? It’s not like people have problems to join WvW/PvP/general PvE guilds, but suddenly all of them are too lazy to find a raid one? Why there is so many threads, topics and posts here and on reddit, under literally EVERY dev post?
Your logic is not working here.

It’s 100 times easier to complain about the process than actually take an effort to change the problem yourself.

Source, any “Functional Society”.

There’s an old adage “Those who can do, Those who can’t teach”….I think it’s time to update that for the 21st century. “Those who can do; Those who can’t, teach and Those that wont, complain.”

One of the most time tested methods of changing something – or solving a problem – is through civil discourse and conversation. While that may be perceived (and may even be) complaining, it doesn’t change that fact.

Open dialogue and civil discourse are the cornerstones of change. Let the conversation continue – make your points saliently and even passionately – but don’t say that having the conversation – with both sides represented – is a bad thing. It is the whole point of having a forum.

You’re right civil discourse with people who put in the effort to change things is a corner stone. Having discourse with someone who has no experience however is akin to going to a restaurant for a second opinion on a medical procedure which is what we have going on here.

Have you not noticed the complaints of similar like minded players on these forums, with no effort from either of them to mobilize something so they can all get what they want at the end of the day ?

I sure haven’t. What i have seen is the most egregious case of pandering to suit their needs when they don’t even know what it is they need or want.

Rednik.3809:

TexZero.7910:

Because talking to other players is super difficult……

It’s almost like those allegedly exclusive guilds aren’t recruiting or something…..Oh wait reddit/gw2 forums and even in game daily there’s adverts for guilds.

According to reddit survey, there is like total 40+% players who want to try raiding. If raid teaching is so widely accessible, then why these numbers are so high? It’s not like people have problems to join WvW/PvP/general PvE guilds, but suddenly all of them are too lazy to find a raid one? Why there is so many threads, topics and posts here and on reddit, under literally EVERY dev post?
Your logic is not working here.

It’s 100 times easier to complain about the process than actually take an effort to change the problem yourself.

Source, any “Functional Society”.

There’s an old adage “Those who can do, Those who can’t teach”….I think it’s time to update that for the 21st century. “Those who can do; Those who can’t, teach and Those that wont, complain.”

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I really dont think theres much of an argument though, I mean lets be honest, your not actually loosing anything.

- It incentivises new people to raid, it gives them catchup gear to start themselves on that journey which only benefits raiders since it lets more people join raiding.

- The White Mantle Box as I pointed out before is an account “one time only” thing which you would never get a second time, you’d only get it the first time you completed the story mode.

- Story is always and will always be something casual players favor over gameplay, it makes no sense to argue or debate that having exclusive story content is something a raider would even care about as the fundamental value of raiding, is the difficult group bosses, and the awesome loot that comes with it.

TL:DR

Its not a loss for the player after the best loot, theres also nothing wrong with “more” accessability to the content itself that does not in any way compramise the loot table or challenge.

Hell I did point out that by making this story-mode level you can still add boss mechanics, which still lets people that have never raided train and learn the raid itself.

Personally, I cant even see for one second, how thats a bad thing.

Why should anyone doing a filler mode be rewarded with a unique skin that is there to entice you to actually Raid.

There’s a reason why Infantile mode of SAB does not drop skins nor give Bauble Bubbles

Rednik.3809:

Absurdo.8309:

Then why waste resources making an easy mode if they are already on farm status?

To help more people join raiding? Raids are meant to be challenging endgame, but not some exclusive content only for hardcore guys. That model died long ago, and only anet for some reason forgot about learning curve and increasing difficulty.

Because talking to other players is super difficult……

It’s almost like those allegedly exclusive guilds aren’t recruiting or something…..Oh wait reddit/gw2 forums and even in game daily there’s adverts for guilds.

insanemaniac.2456:

TexZero.7910:

eldrin.6471:

letting us buy insights with margonite shards at a rate of 100 shards for 1 insight and letting those with extra insights use them to buy margonite shards could help both sides in this.

This would only actively promote fail state farming till you’re shard capped for the week.

We don’t need the game to promote that.

how is that not already promoted. raids are the only way to obtain a bunch of stat combos that are strictly better than their core analogues. if i could have 20k shards right now this instant, i would easily be able to spend them all on new gear for 10+ different toons. there is no reason i shouldnt be fail state farming (unless im able to complete encounters for more shards/hour).

the fact that some people are saying they have nothing to buy with their shards currently is something i find entirely ridiculous.

and for the record, im not in favor of adding a shard<->LI conversion.

You answered your own question you can caps shards just by completing the events and boss fights.

As is you’re not rewarded for fail state farming.

eldrin.6471:

letting us buy insights with margonite shards at a rate of 100 shards for 1 insight and letting those with extra insights use them to buy margonite shards could help both sides in this.

This would only actively promote fail state farming till you’re shard capped for the week.

We don’t need the game to promote that.

It’s not a compromise if you stand to gain everything.

If you want a story mode be prepared to give up any and all access to raid specific loot, as you are not raiding.

Zenith.7301:

TexZero.7910:

Zenith.7301:

TexZero.7910:

Zenith.7301:

TexZero.7910:

Zenith.7301:

If they just gave engineers or thieves and aura utility like Spotter or Assassin’s Presence that was strong enough (200 of a stat to a group), I bet you’d see less stacking of tempests and more class variety.

Same for Guardian, problem is Guardians got an aura that gives Toughness, and Toughness is a trash stat in a PvE where you can completely avoid most threats with the dodge button.

Scrappers could give an aura that gives 10% condi duration increase, and daredevils could give a 15% movement speed increase that stacks with swiftness.

Guardians could have an aura that increases the effectiveness of boon effects by 5% (so 5% more to prot value, might power gains, etc).

You would then see all classes represented.

This goes directly against what they want to achieve though and forces a super comp where you bring 1 of every “Aura Stat Trait” to coin a phrase. Which means that they then would have to design each encounter around a fixed comp to ensure all dps/mechanics could be met.

Instead of solving the problem that way they just need to design encounters that play to the strengths of each each class. IE a boss that has adds, but when the adds die the boss gets stronger somehow or reduces the kill timer (limits AoE’s, promotes thief) etc…

More creative encounter design is the best way to increase diversity, not that its in that bad a spot to begin with.

We already have meta comps, this changes nothing. I suspect this complaint derives from not wanting to change away from players who already committed to 3-4 tempests.

If you’re running a different comp, you’re already being subpar, so adding auras so some classes are represented isn’t changing anything.

Besides, I don’t buy the argument for one moment that encounters need to encourage some classes. That just means you’re gonna class stack differently for each boss, which is terrible.

It strikes me as what just happened to T4 fractals, where now you’re stacking the new optimal class for the encounter.

I don’t trust them with encounter design for one second as a surefire way to make sure all classes are represented and equally wanted.

There’s a big difference between a “meta comp”, versus needing to find one of every aura stat boost class. Not only does that effectively kill build diversity it leads to stagnant design encounter because you do have to design around the fact that every player will have an additional ball of stats. These words by the way were said on stream by Crystal herself at one point. I’ll see if i can find that stream just so you can view it.

Video here – https://youtu.be/1FUkGRxuxV0?t=22m

As far as not trusting them for designing encounters, i think they’re doing fine.

So fine that we’re stacking 3-4 tempests, sure.

This is being obtuse by now. There’s no build diversity when you can’t even have class diversity lol

I mean that’s your groups choice to stack that many tempest when its not required.

However the overall health of raids allows pretty much all classes to be viable, just not optimal.

………Why are you being dense?

The same would be the case with not bringing all classes with auras? You’d be completely viable, just not optimal.

Nothing in a game is required; gameplay is optional, but that’s beside the point.

We’re balancing around optimal scenarios because optimal is what most people shoot for.

You say they can change with encounter design, which is pure garbage.

3 years we had before the xpac came out, 3 years of elementalist stacking. Raids come out, more elementalist stacking. That’s 4+ years of encounter design favoring elementalists, so I doubt that will change unless it’s hamfisted like fractals and then we just see engineers and necromancers stacked instead.

Then we take your tortured view of encounter shifting, look at fractals, now we stack necromancers or engineers.

We need numbers and class mechanics balancing, not encounter gimmicks that just tilt the encounter to favor the optimal class.

The auras for each class are the most simple solution at seeing all classes represented instead of the realistic scenario of tempests being vastly over-represented, and in the absence of a driving utility you’ll always stack the best DPS class. The auras prevent that by at least making you want to bring every class to be optimal, and then maybe you’ll occasionally see 2 tempests instead of 3-4.

You are failing to understand this….The encounters are not designed around, nor built around having an “optimal” teamcomp 24/7 for runs. They are intentionally built with enough leeway that you can bring whatever is viable so long as you perform the mechanics.

This is good design, they only thing they have to do is tweak how they design each boss / encounter so the strengths of other classes are able to be showcased. For example if they had a boss where-in killing ads made the boss stronger classes that excel in single target damage (thief) would see more play than ele whose AoE would prove to be a liability. This is a simple conceptual design change that shows ways they can grow and build more diverse encounters.

DGraves.3720:

TexZero.7910:

Please no….Do not empower PU stealth mesmers again.

Last thing they need is more boons and condi uptime.

What’s the point of “player choice” if you’re going to avoid an entire set of stats just because of one class? I can think of at least 4 that benefit from the combination not including Mesmer.

Less choice is easier to balance. Given the existing balance track record with new stats…..im leaning heavily toward no. Additionally any class that could benefit from said stats would be grossly broken.

Zenith.7301:

TexZero.7910:

Zenith.7301:

TexZero.7910:

Zenith.7301:

If they just gave engineers or thieves and aura utility like Spotter or Assassin’s Presence that was strong enough (200 of a stat to a group), I bet you’d see less stacking of tempests and more class variety.

Same for Guardian, problem is Guardians got an aura that gives Toughness, and Toughness is a trash stat in a PvE where you can completely avoid most threats with the dodge button.

Scrappers could give an aura that gives 10% condi duration increase, and daredevils could give a 15% movement speed increase that stacks with swiftness.

Guardians could have an aura that increases the effectiveness of boon effects by 5% (so 5% more to prot value, might power gains, etc).

You would then see all classes represented.

This goes directly against what they want to achieve though and forces a super comp where you bring 1 of every “Aura Stat Trait” to coin a phrase. Which means that they then would have to design each encounter around a fixed comp to ensure all dps/mechanics could be met.

Instead of solving the problem that way they just need to design encounters that play to the strengths of each each class. IE a boss that has adds, but when the adds die the boss gets stronger somehow or reduces the kill timer (limits AoE’s, promotes thief) etc…

More creative encounter design is the best way to increase diversity, not that its in that bad a spot to begin with.

We already have meta comps, this changes nothing. I suspect this complaint derives from not wanting to change away from players who already committed to 3-4 tempests.

If you’re running a different comp, you’re already being subpar, so adding auras so some classes are represented isn’t changing anything.

Besides, I don’t buy the argument for one moment that encounters need to encourage some classes. That just means you’re gonna class stack differently for each boss, which is terrible.

It strikes me as what just happened to T4 fractals, where now you’re stacking the new optimal class for the encounter.

I don’t trust them with encounter design for one second as a surefire way to make sure all classes are represented and equally wanted.

There’s a big difference between a “meta comp”, versus needing to find one of every aura stat boost class. Not only does that effectively kill build diversity it leads to stagnant design encounter because you do have to design around the fact that every player will have an additional ball of stats. These words by the way were said on stream by Crystal herself at one point. I’ll see if i can find that stream just so you can view it.

Video here – https://youtu.be/1FUkGRxuxV0?t=22m

As far as not trusting them for designing encounters, i think they’re doing fine.

So fine that we’re stacking 3-4 tempests, sure.

This is being obtuse by now. There’s no build diversity when you can’t even have class diversity lol

I mean that’s your groups choice to stack that many tempest when its not required.

However the overall health of raids allows pretty much all classes to be viable, just not optimal.

forge them into t6

eduardo.1436:

penelopehannibal.8947:

There’s a Summer Quarterly update just round the corner.

not being rude but how do you know?

1. Anet has said NOTHING about a release date or any relevant information for the summer update

2. While it is logical to expect anything on tuesday (the end of pvp league) there is a chance nothing will happen

3. there is that leaked italin article saying that LW will come at the end of summer

They were pretty clear in the reddit AMA that LS3 would be coming after Raid Wing 3.

That’s how players know its coming soon™

eldrin.6471:

Used in the creation of legendary,the gift of craftsmanship is also used but only needs 6.
no one new how or how many would be used.i suppose those with statics or that relay want the armour will get it.that does not make huge time gates and grind any better for the game or even raids even if its what some of you want.

You are not making your point any better. Gift of craftsmanship will take as long as to get.