Guild Wars 2

Ele’s have been nerfed but are still way up at the top. Most of the people complaining about it are drastically overreacting as the actual damage reduction was not very much and the CD rate is now in line with literally every other class. I main an ele and will continue to do so, but these nerfs have been needed for a long time.

I don’t play thief so I can’t speak to it.

Best advice? Play what you like rather than whatever metabattle tells you is theoretically best

Ley Lines are common and very useful, as is permanent gliding, but updrafts and bouncing mushrooms will get you everywhere you need to go

As has been announced multiple times, they are releasing on a 2-3 month schedule. They don’t want to rush buggy, unfinished content to make the 2 week release schedule because they want to emphasize quality.

zxstanyxz.8769:

Map Rewards… they are your bonus for doing events on the other maps… the bloodstone fen dailies will likely only be here for the duration of the living story and will then dissapear again, just as the halloween/winterday/everyothertemporaryevent dailies have done in the past…

Given that they are such a huge source of the map currency necessary to buy the highest items that are offered by map vendors, I don’t think it’s going to be limited to the duration of the LS. I also really hope its not

Some more feedback:

I absolutely love the dailies for the new map, and would love to see that system expanded further for 2 main reasons.

1st, maps with currencies linked to them can always, in my opinion, use a bit of a boost to the receipt of said currencies

2nd, older maps that are underused because their rewards are lower than, say, AB or Silverwastes, could greatly benefit from having dailies attached to them in terms of helping players feel like they are worth going back to.

The attraction of dailies on each map for me is largely that it provides a plethora of reasons to go and do neglected content which in a lot of cases many people may have never done before. As an example, I was feeling burnt out on HoT maps awhile ago so I decided to go and take my time exploring Frostgorge Sound on my Norn Guardian and tried a bit of solo RP, just for kicks. It was wonderful, and even though I’ve mapped FS on nearly all my characters I still found events and content that I’d never played before. For the more reward-driven players, dailies such as these would give good reason to go back (I also think it would help increase the repeatability of the older content and alleviate the issues with content drought and burnout by giving people rewards for playing the locations of their choosing rather than feeling like they are limited to the standby rewards maps; AB and Silverwastes).

With the new loot introduced in the new map, I think this opens a huge door. The salvageable items that can reward crafting materials of any tier is a huge boon since previously you had to go farm in maps with low gains in order to get the low-mid tier materials (hence why they are so expensive). The dailies could simply reward some of these items and some map currency (in maps where a currency exists) and I think that would be enough.

Donari.5237:

I wrote this in the feedback thread and will reiterate it here:

“Having the separate dailies is pretty cool, but I do suggest this not become a general thing — one specialized set to help get the scads of currency needed for the vendor rewards is one thing, but the more daily subsets you add the more of a chore it will be to get to them all.”

One reason I went full tilt fanatic for GW2 in beta and at launch was that I was a WoW player with serious burn out from chasing dailies all over the world map.

It’s one thing if you can satisfy your dailies in any map you like, eg ore gathering, but go anywhere in the world. It’s another if you have proliferating dailies that you have to go all over for. As it is I’m not gathering flax daily, it’s too much of a detour from doing other things, let alone hopping to all the other daily things on offer. The BF dailies are separate from the regular dailies, so now that’s two sets (though the BF ones help farm unbound magic and are in a still new and shiny map, making them less a chore and more a reward for being there).

So I disagree. I think we’d be back to the “gotta do ’em all” burnout days that led to the current daily system far too fast if every map had its own set.

I know this is a kitten answer, but just because they are there doesn’t mean you have to do them.

I do agree with you on your point that it could contribute to burnout but that’s always such a subjective issue for individual players that I’m not sure it is really useful to try to do anything about.

The attraction of dailies on each map for me is largely that it provides a plethora of reasons to go and do neglected content which in a lot of cases many people may have never done before. As an example, I was feeling burnt out on HoT maps awhile ago so I decided to go and take my time exploring Frostgorge Sound on my Norn Guardian and tried a bit of solo RP, just for kicks. It was wonderful, and even though I’ve mapped FS on nearly all my characters I still found events and content that I’d never played before. For the more reward-driven players, dailies such as these would give good reason to go back (I also think it would help increase the repeatability of the older content and alleviate the issues with content drought by giving people rewards for playing the locations of their choosing rather than feeling like they are limited to the standby rewards maps; AB and Silverwastes).

With the new loot introduced in the new map, I think this opens a huge door. The salvageable items that can reward crafting materials of any tier is a huge boon since previously you had to go farm in maps with low gains in order to get the low-mid tier materials (hence why they are so expensive). The dailies could simply reward some of these items and some map currency (in maps where a currency exists) and I think that would be enough.

Definitely agree. The dailies system offers a unique opportunity to incentivize repeating other content, and with the new maps being such higher source of rewards the lower level content, the older maps have been seeing less use. The Megaserver system helps with that a lot, but it’s still noticeable sometimes.

I love going back to the old maps, but at the moment any time I spend there means I’m missing out on higher rewards elsewhere. Something as mild as this could go a long way towards helping.

Haleydawn.3764:

The special action utility has had use since the first Raid wing in the Sabetha fight.

Just keybind it, it is in the options. Problem solved.

You are correct, but note that I said “For example” rather than “this is a comprehensive list of the places this button has uses”

And that only solves the problem of overshooting with the mouse. It does not change the difficulty of knowing when it’s active. In raids, there are other tells so it’s easier there, but in the new map there are multiple bosses that utilize it as well as a mastery.

The new Special Action icon currently shows up as a small button upwards and to the left of the Health Globe in the center of the UI. Currently it is only utilized in a few places (Wing 3 of the raid and after receiving the first mastery for the new Ancient Magic mastery line, for example), but I’d like to request a QOL change before it sees even more use.

It’s current location does not feel very well placed, I believe it would be better suited somewhere else.

The icon is currently too small, multiple times I’ve missed the cue because I overshoot it with my mouse.

There’s no way to know when it pops up other than by watching that area of the screen intently. There’s no flash when it pops up, it’s location isn’t one that is commonly looked at, and the button being so small makes it difficult to see and easy to miss unless its too late.

If this button is going to see even more use (which I actually think is a good idea for many things), I think it best that the improvements be made early while it’s still easy to make the change.

Please and thank you!

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Am I the only one who found the reveal of primordus being active to be completely out of place and just… weird and unfitting? Especially with it just ending right after that

I don’t think its out of place when you consider Kralk and Jormag. Primordus was the first ED to wake up, but he’s been content with doing what Zhaitan, Kralk, and Jor had been up to now: aggregating magical power and letting his minions slowly expand rather than full-on attacking.

In this case, Primordus is in the position to do 2 things: 1st, since he’s been awake the longest his forces are likely large enough to make a full-on assault and tople the remaining dwarves in order to expand to the surface. 2nd, as a follow-up to the first point, he is in the position to take the most advantage of the massive amounts of magic that was released upon Mordy’s death.

It does look unrelated, you’re right, but considering the circumstances outside the LS makes it pretty clear why Primordus is the one that’s stepping up.

DarcShriek.5829:

I thought Primordus has been active for a couple hundred years now. If not, who’s been killing off the dwarfs?

Are the chak minions, proto-dragons, or something else? Their ability to change magic is interesting.

Primordus has been contained to the underground by the Dwarves, but I suspect the reasoning that’s going to be given is that the ley-line overload caused by Mordy’s death has given Primordy the power to make real headway against the Dwarves now.

A good example: Jormag is awake, but not really doing much other than building power for itself, same as Kralk. Primordy was awake but not showing as active to the surface races because the dwarves had been keeping its minions under wraps and/or Primordy didn’t make a huge effort. Now that there’s so much magic released to the world and available for it to grab, it’s pushing for it rather than passively aggregating the magic.

I don’t get why people care about the fractal leaderboard. What would it even do?

Things I like, in no particular order:
Combat skills while gliding, and a map that lets me have real fun with ley line gliding. I’ve been waiting for gliding combat, and I’m really glad to see it!

New fractal: I’ve been hoping for new fractal content since forever and I’m very glad to see more added, especially since it seems to confirm that fractals are now some level of priority for new content rather than being left to stagnate.

New map: I really enjoy the new map, though it can be a bit hard to see what’s going on while in the air amongst all the red. The new events are fun and the map is creative, and I appreciate how it took the tiered feel of VB and simplified the transitioning between upper and lower tiers without sacrificing the distinct feel of each.

New enemies/mechanics: I loved the new, more difficult mechanics that were added to mobs when HoT was released, and I’m loving the new, more difficult mechanics that were added to mobs in the new map. I hope this trend of creativity continues. I also appreciate that it gives an opportunity for players to learn things that enemies in the raids use, which will help people who have previously had a difficult time in raids jump in a little faster.

New LS: I called it when the first raid wing came out and wasn’t disappointed. In the interest of not spoiling anything I won’t say much, but I do really appreciate the direction the game is going in with it in terms of both the next indicated expansion and the continuation of the LS. Speaking of, I’m glad that they seem to be tackling different things rather than one simply being a lead-up to another. While the dialogue of the big bads in the last portion of the episode was a little campy, overall I appreciated the story-telling and use of resources. I also really appreciated that it didn’t try to do too many different things while still involving a ton of different plot lines intersecting.

More HoT Mastery points! Yes!

Soliciting forum feedback from players? YES!! I know we can be a hotheaded bunch, but I think we all appreciate that you at least asked us to provide any feedback. We know you read the forums but it’s nice to see an actual post regarding it

Things I don’t like, in no particular order:
Elementalist skill CD nerf was a necessary evil, but the damage decrease feels a little heavy handed as does the nerf to healing. While I understand the intent was to reduce the multitasking that an elementalist is very good at in raids, it left my character having a woefully difficult time keeping myself alive since I simply could not heal well enough unless I sacrificed damage or toughness/vit to put on healing power gear. I believe that a more effective nerf to “Wash the Pain Away” would have been to reduce the healing to everyone other than the elementalist rather than a flat 1/3 reduction

The Bloodstone Crown should have been ascended, since all other LS episode rewards are ascended.

As I have not played the other professions that were changed yet, I won’t speak to them, but a lot of the changes to Guardians have been ones that have been requested for a long time, so I’m glad to see community feedback on balance appears to have been considered when these changes were made.

@Anet as a whole: So far, I’m loving this new content, and I’m really looking forward to seeing where it goes. I’m glad that y’all aren’t trying to do the 2 weeks releases anymore, because I don’t want y’all to burn out. Keep up the good work!

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

UnbentMars.9126:

Emtiarbi.3281:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Emtiarbi.3281:

I’m curious if they will release an episode every 2 weeks like the LS2.

Sadly they won’t
They said it before and they just said it today in the Reddit’s AMA: they are splitting resources between LS and the nex expansion to avoid having a content drought pre-expansion launch like the one we had in the pre-HoT months. They don’t have final fixed dates of course, but they said they will release new LS chapters every 2-3 months.

So we have to wait 2 months for chapter 2?

Read the multitude of statements Anet has made regarding this. The 2-week releases were hell on the devs and not sustainable for quality content or continual output. They transitioned to a release every 2-3 months that contains higher quantity and higher quality content rather than trying to continue something that burned out the entire team.

That’s right… except the part of higher quantity, which judging this episode 1 isn’t true at all. That’s why I’m concerned. Here’s hoping the 2nd episode is much juicy content-wise.

A new map, a new fractal, a new pvp map, a ton of improvements to classes and functionality, improvements to the AR system design, and a new LS episode is NOT a small amount of content.

Additionally, much of the improvements were based around making it easier to add more content in the future (especially new fractals), so I’m strongly suspecting that a large amount of this update was designed to enable Anet to add more things in the future more easily. Besides, this is the first episode of the new LS. The first episodes of LS1 and 2 were also somewhat short compared to the ones that followed.

Emtiarbi.3281:

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Emtiarbi.3281:

I’m curious if they will release an episode every 2 weeks like the LS2.

Sadly they won’t
They said it before and they just said it today in the Reddit’s AMA: they are splitting resources between LS and the nex expansion to avoid having a content drought pre-expansion launch like the one we had in the pre-HoT months. They don’t have final fixed dates of course, but they said they will release new LS chapters every 2-3 months.

So we have to wait 2 months for chapter 2?

Read the multitude of statements Anet has made regarding this. The 2-week releases were hell on the devs and not sustainable for quality content or continual output. They transitioned to a release every 2-3 months that contains higher quantity and higher quality content rather than trying to continue something that burned out the entire team.

cranos.5913:

RubiBayer.8134:

dlonie.6547:

Jerus.4350:

/wave

I wonder who else has come back for this teaser

Honestly, a recycled fractal could be fun in a nostalgic sort of way. But teasing it first was a bad idea, they really should have seen the backlash coming a mile away…

Keep ’em coming, ANet — if they look good some of us might return.

We knew that a fair amount of people would take a quick look and equate it to smashing a few LEGO bricks together and calling it a day. But an equal or greater number of people understand it’s not LEGO bricks at all, that something looking familiar doesn’t mean it’s the same thing, and that it’s part of the crazy things happening with magic in Tyria since we took out Mordremoth. So we went with the teaser video.

This week’s Guild Chat is focused on Fractals, so some of the fractal team will be on hand to talk about the work they did.

It’s not that we see stuff return, it’s that the stuff we see in the trailer is all the annoying puzzle kitten of others mashed together. Looking at this trailer I can already imagine the same kind of “fun” we have in aetherblade and thaumanova.

From a lot of the pictures, it seems like there is more density of enemies/bosses than in previous fractals. I can’t really say I dislike the puzzles as much as other people, so I can’t account for differences in preference, but at the very least it looks like there’s real potential for some cool stuff.

I say this because I think this first fractal is intended to be the introduction to the new fractal story-line that Anet mentioned they wanted to move forward with, and it was designed around the opening of the plot (that there are new instabilities caused by an unknown perpetrator rather than just a new island like always), which gives them some room to expand forward in a more directed fashion rather than adding to the already-large hodge-podge of stories that the existing fractals merely touch on.

If we fight some of the old bosses with nothing new attached, I won’t be super pleased, but if the bosses had some tactics changed/added and an arena overhaul I think they could be quite fun.

I predict the following:

Some people will flood the forums with posts about how awful the update is less than 10 minutes after it drops despite having done nothing more than read the patch notes (if that)

Some people will flood the forums with unrelated posts bemoaning the lack of new legendaries (as if most of the people complaining have enough money or time to get all of them anyway)

Some people will legitimately enjoy the content and post a little bit about that, but most of the comments on it will be people complaining that they still don’t have enough to do in the game instead of actually playing the game.

And finally, in a week’s time, there will be another post about how the content drought is back because people don’t understand that creating things takes time and how they’d rather have poorly planned and rushed content delivered every two weeks than a more reasonable, quality-filled pace.

Can confirm, it’s just RNG. On my full ascended ele I’ve gotten 6 weapon boxes and several armor boxes from t4’s, and nothing on my DH that’s about 1/2 ascended from t4s when I’ve done just as many t4 fractals on it

Ryou.2398:

Honestly id rather they release elite specs in the store kind of like how rift sells classes in the store, that way we can get them all now and have more choices. Thats just my opinion though.

No thanks, I’m not interested in paying piecemeal for specializations. That very much goes against the no pay-to-win philosophy that I love about GW2

Arden.7480:

I read this topic, I considered everything and this “separate” sounds very seriously.

“Raids are not part of our Living World”. But we can see they are.

Raids are not part of our Living World means that you won’t be required to participate in a raid in order to experience the Living World and vice versa, not that they won’t tie into each other. Read the rest of the quote

Arden.7480:

It is not matter of reusing. It surprised me very much that in LS3 Trailer ANet showed scenes from Wing 3, but one month earlier He said that LS3 and Raids are separate elements… I thought that LS3 will tell about aftermath of Mordremoth’s Death- Glint’s Egg, Rata Novus, Ley Line Activities… And I wonder what is the connection with White Mantle… Is it trailer for Raid and LS3?

Quoted directly from Bobby Stein:

“Hey there. I’ve been seeing some comments regarding the story and lore in the Forsaken Thicket raid, and how that fits into Guild Wars 2. We appreciate your enthusiasm! Just wanted to clarify a few things:
It will not be necessary to play Forsaken Thicket—or any future raid—in order to complete Living World or expansion stories. Raids do not gate main story progress.
Raid stories can—and should—be thematically tied to Tyrian lore and enhance the game.
If any lore information from the raids is relevant to storylines in other content, we’ll make sure that information is also available in that other content.
Raids present story in a different manner than elsewhere in the game. They are not a replacement for Living World, expansion, or Personal Story.
Output from the raids team isn’t coming at the expense of other projects in development. Raids are made independently of Living World. We do communicate regularly with that team (and we share some resources and assets in both directions) but neither team prevents the other from doing its job.
The Forsaken Thicket story will conclude with the release of Stronghold of the Faithful on June 14.
Raids are not part of our Living World episodes; they are separate game elements.
More information regarding Living World Season 3 will be announced in the future. As always, content will be released when it is ready to ensure the optimal quality for our fans. Hang tight.
I hope this helps people understand things a bit better. Thanks!”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-Narrative-and-Lore/first#post6195598

They did not say that raids would be completely separate, in fact “Raid stories can—and should—be thematically tied to Tyrian lore and enhance the game”. Anything they do bring from the raids to the LS will be presented as part of the LS itself to make sure no one is missing anything.

As for wondering about what LS3 will cover, it will likely cover all of those things but we will have to wait and play it to find out precisely what it covers. How about we play it before we preemptively decide its bad just because its new?

AliamRationem.5172:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

AliamRationem.5172:

Also, thinking ahead, what happens when the next elite spec comes along? Another weapon type, 5 more utilities, and a new class gimmick?

Actually, that’s exactly what we expect with future elite specs. The choice of which elite you run is a trade off. Its about making choices. The elite lines are a “package” that changes your class into something slightly more than what it was; however, you can only be one specialty with all that it entails. In the long run it “should” help keep some potential power creep issues in check, but we’ll see.

AliamRationem.5172:

Are they going to rework the old specs to feature the same?

I’m assuming you’re asking are they going to change the core lines to have some weapon or skill locked to them? So you can’t use that weapon and skill set if you don’t take it? I doubt it. They’d have done it with the revamp of the system, and from what they said when they introduced “specializations,” locking was something special to elite specs for assorted reasons.

Ahh, so they intend to add more “elite” specializations, which will be mutually exclusive? That makes more sense. With just the one it’s a bit awkward, since you lose out on a lot of power/utility by not taking the elite spec, even if one of the other specializations would be a better fit if only taking into account the traits themselves.

That should work, as long as it’s balanced properly.

It looks like the plan is to release a new Elite Spec for each profession upon the release of every expansion. Right now it’s kind of odd because there’s only one, but as more get released it’ll make more sense and actually be an incredible source of build variation

Full quote for reference:

“Hey there. I’ve been seeing some comments regarding the story and lore in the Forsaken Thicket raid, and how that fits into Guild Wars 2. We appreciate your enthusiasm! Just wanted to clarify a few things:
It will not be necessary to play Forsaken Thicket—or any future raid—in order to complete Living World or expansion stories. Raids do not gate main story progress.
Raid stories can—and should—be thematically tied to Tyrian lore and enhance the game.
If any lore information from the raids is relevant to storylines in other content, we’ll make sure that information is also available in that other content.
Raids present story in a different manner than elsewhere in the game. They are not a replacement for Living World, expansion, or Personal Story.
Output from the raids team isn’t coming at the expense of other projects in development. Raids are made independently of Living World. We do communicate regularly with that team (and we share some resources and assets in both directions) but neither team prevents the other from doing its job.
The Forsaken Thicket story will conclude with the release of Stronghold of the Faithful on June 14.
Raids are not part of our Living World episodes; they are separate game elements.
More information regarding Living World Season 3 will be announced in the future. As always, content will be released when it is ready to ensure the optimal quality for our fans. Hang tight.
I hope this helps people understand things a bit better. Thanks!”
-Bobby Stein

He also stated that the stories are not necessarily separate, and may have an impact on each other. Don’t partially quote.

Also, game elements =/= story elements. He was saying that the raids are not necessary to experience the Living World and vice versa.

Changer the Elder.2948:

UnbentMars.9126:

Dream Shake.8741:

So raiders will always be the first to get the breaking news while the rest will have to read the wiki and watch youtube? How fun.

Yeah, how dare people be rewarded for doing challenging content

Uh… except they already are? Or do you think the gold and ascended drops and exclusive skins and legendary armor are just some trash nobody wanted…

Story isn’t a reward, it’s the point of many people playing the game. Raids are part of the game that ANet said is “only for the select few” and they indeed are. That select few tends to be rather far from people playing games for their stories.

The raid is not a story, it’s teasers of what is going to be the story. A preview can easily be considered a reward.

If you want it, do what it takes to get it instead of asking stuff be reduced to where you don’t have to succeed in the challenges that many people have already shown to be possible. A group 4-manned VG earlier this week, so I can’t exactly say that it has to be for the “select few”, especially when considering that wing 3 (which contains the vast majority of these previews) is the easiest yet and more people can clear it without as much trouble.

Dream Shake.8741:

So raiders will always be the first to get the breaking news while the rest will have to read the wiki and watch youtube? How fun.

Yeah, how dare people be rewarded for doing challenging content

Lord Kuru.3685:

Avster.1935:

Specialization is THE BEST way to horizontally expand classes.

In theory, but not in practice as we’ve seen with HoT.

How so?

Torolan.5816:

UnbentMars.9126:

Torolan.5816:

I have every old school success in fractals and was lvl 50 before it was cool so to say. So no, I don´t think fractals are very hard. But still hear me out:
You, me and the rest of the 10-20% know their classes and what to do. A fractal appears only faceroll easy to you because you are a dedicated player, something you basically confirm with your answers. A T4 fractal is of course easy to someone that raids or soloed lupi or some other stuff the common player usually does not even attempt.

Why do you assume that anyone or even a large majority is on your level of dedication to the game? That surely is not the case.

1. Never soloed Lupi
2. Only beaten 1 raid boss so far
3. When you say dedicated player, what’s your criteria for that? I play less than 4 hours a week
4. My experience with fractals comes from having actually done them, and like I said they are easier when you know what to expect; per what I also said, the mechanics don’t change so if you do what I did and start at a low level and work your way up by the time you get to T4 you already know what to do. If someone is trying to do t4 with no agony resistance and no experience then not only should they expect to fail, but complaining about it just means they want instant gratification and their opinion should be discounted when discussing what people want out of fractals.
5. Maybe if the “common player” attempted to do these things then we wouldn’t have to be worrying about it.
6. Even if fractals were excessively elitist in their nature, why should someone who hasn’t bothered to put in any effort get the same rewards if they can’t beat the same challenge?
7. Finally, if fractals are that much of an impossible challenge for someone already, why are they wasting their time on something they know they can’t do? Stick to low level fractals until you get to where you need to be and stop complaining that other people have access to stuff you don’t when you don’t do the necessary things to gain access to them.

Huh?
Fractals, even at the highest level, are not elitist. The idea that basically anyone can do it with a minimum of preparation is elitist.
The points you raise depend on the stance you have if GW2 should be made for people with dedication or people that want to drop in, do stuff they like, and log off.

Maybe the common player has no interest in soloing/speedclearing content made for groups?

I’m not sure saying that anyone can do something is elitist, in fact I’m pretty sure its the opposite.
To answer the implicit question there, my stance is that GW2 should have a variety of content. In this case, if people like doing fractals but don’t want to spend time getting to the highest level ones, they would be better suited by their own preferences to sticking to lower level fractals.

If the “common player” is not interested in doing those things, then they shouldn’t do them. And if they don’t do them, they shouldn’t be complaining about the content they don’t want to do since there is absolutely nothing that forces them to do any of the content in GW2 whatsoever. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Manasa Devi.7958:

UnbentMars.9126:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Jerus.4350:

Blaeys.3102:

Ayrilana.1396:

Blaeys.3102:

Ayrilana.1396:

Blaeys.3102:

It is looking more and more like the raid was indeed chapter one of the next living story. Even if they cover it again at this point, they have let that cat out of the bag – providing the story experience to only a small percentage of their players.

As interested as I am in this particular story, this is bad form and bad storytelling.

But the reason it is bad has more to do with the exclusionary nature of raids than anything else. This just proves that they need to focus on developing PVE content for the entire PVE community, even if that means tiered difficulties in raids.

They can always include a synopsis within the LS that covers everything that occurred in the raid.

That is far from the same as giving the players the experience of being the central hero in the first part of their story – which is what players should expect (and experience is not the same as hearing about, reading about, or walking through a cleared instance).

It kills excitement and makes players (rightfully) feel left out by the developers – and it didn’t have to happen.

The moment has passed.

We can only hope Anet learns something from this and doesn’t repeat this mistake in the future.

Should players have the option to play through events referenced from GW1? There’s nothing wrong with providing a synopsis or summary. The story within the raid was fairly small anyway so it’s not as if a large summary would be needed.

Also:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-Narrative-and-Lore/first#post6195598

The amount of story isn’t the point. It was (most likely) the introduction to/beginning of the next story, and they chose to leave the vast majority of players out of it, when they didn’t need to.

You don’t start reading a book 20 pages in or starting a movie at the 15 minute mark – even if one of the characters roughly recaps the story at that point.

It is bad storytelling and a significant misstep by the developers and the narrative team.

in medias res (Classical Latin: [?n m?dia?s re?s], lit. “into the middle things”) opens in the midst of action. (cf. ab ovo, ab initio).¹ Often, exposition is bypassed and filled in gradually, either through dialogue, flashbacks or description of past events.

What’s the point of that non sequitur?

It’s not a non sequiter, it’s explaining a commonly used narrative technique, addressing the claim that it’s bad storytelling to say that the claim is not necessarily true.

It’s a narrative technique that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

You responded to someone saying: “You don’t start reading a book 20 pages in or starting a movie at the 15 minute mark – even if one of the characters roughly recaps the story at that point.”

In media res storytelling still starts at page one of a book or the very start of a movie. In this situation, there actually is something that goes before, but less conveniently accessed. Like you said, “in media res” is a narrative technique, entirely dissimilar to what’s happening here, which is just narrative clumsiness.

I suggest you reread the usernames, because you are replying to two different people. I did not put the “in media res” comment, I am merely explaining that it’s not a non sequitur.

If you log in while the season episode is current, it is saved to your account so you won’t ever have to buy it separately. You won’t be able to play it until you get HoT, but you won’t have to worry about buying both as long as you log in.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Jerus.4350:

Blaeys.3102:

Ayrilana.1396:

Blaeys.3102:

Ayrilana.1396:

Blaeys.3102:

It is looking more and more like the raid was indeed chapter one of the next living story. Even if they cover it again at this point, they have let that cat out of the bag – providing the story experience to only a small percentage of their players.

As interested as I am in this particular story, this is bad form and bad storytelling.

But the reason it is bad has more to do with the exclusionary nature of raids than anything else. This just proves that they need to focus on developing PVE content for the entire PVE community, even if that means tiered difficulties in raids.

They can always include a synopsis within the LS that covers everything that occurred in the raid.

That is far from the same as giving the players the experience of being the central hero in the first part of their story – which is what players should expect (and experience is not the same as hearing about, reading about, or walking through a cleared instance).

It kills excitement and makes players (rightfully) feel left out by the developers – and it didn’t have to happen.

The moment has passed.

We can only hope Anet learns something from this and doesn’t repeat this mistake in the future.

Should players have the option to play through events referenced from GW1? There’s nothing wrong with providing a synopsis or summary. The story within the raid was fairly small anyway so it’s not as if a large summary would be needed.

Also:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-Narrative-and-Lore/first#post6195598

The amount of story isn’t the point. It was (most likely) the introduction to/beginning of the next story, and they chose to leave the vast majority of players out of it, when they didn’t need to.

You don’t start reading a book 20 pages in or starting a movie at the 15 minute mark – even if one of the characters roughly recaps the story at that point.

It is bad storytelling and a significant misstep by the developers and the narrative team.

in medias res (Classical Latin: [?n m?dia?s re?s], lit. “into the middle things”) opens in the midst of action. (cf. ab ovo, ab initio).¹ Often, exposition is bypassed and filled in gradually, either through dialogue, flashbacks or description of past events.

What’s the point of that non sequitur?

It’s not a non sequiter, it’s explaining a commonly used narrative technique, addressing the claim that it’s bad storytelling to say that the claim is not necessarily true.

Torolan.5816:

I have every old school success in fractals and was lvl 50 before it was cool so to say. So no, I don´t think fractals are very hard. But still hear me out:
You, me and the rest of the 10-20% know their classes and what to do. A fractal appears only faceroll easy to you because you are a dedicated player, something you basically confirm with your answers. A T4 fractal is of course easy to someone that raids or soloed lupi or some other stuff the common player usually does not even attempt.

Why do you assume that anyone or even a large majority is on your level of dedication to the game? That surely is not the case.

1. Never soloed Lupi
2. Only beaten 1 raid boss so far
3. When you say dedicated player, what’s your criteria for that? I play less than 4 hours a week
4. My experience with fractals comes from having actually done them, and like I said they are easier when you know what to expect; per what I also said, the mechanics don’t change so if you do what I did and start at a low level and work your way up by the time you get to T4 you already know what to do. If someone is trying to do t4 with no agony resistance and no experience then not only should they expect to fail, but complaining about it just means they want instant gratification and their opinion should be discounted when discussing what people want out of fractals.
5. Maybe if the “common player” attempted to do these things then we wouldn’t have to be worrying about it.
6. Even if fractals were excessively elitist in their nature, why should someone who hasn’t bothered to put in any effort get the same rewards if they can’t beat the same challenge?
7. Finally, if fractals are that much of an impossible challenge for someone already, why are they wasting their time on something they know they can’t do? Stick to low level fractals until you get to where you need to be and stop complaining that other people have access to stuff you don’t when you don’t do the necessary things to gain access to them.

To dispel the anger at LW being tied to raid story, here’s a quote from a dev a month ago:

“Hey there. I’ve been seeing some comments regarding the story and lore in the Forsaken Thicket raid, and how that fits into Guild Wars 2. We appreciate your enthusiasm! Just wanted to clarify a few things:
It will not be necessary to play Forsaken Thicket—or any future raid—in order to complete Living World or expansion stories. Raids do not gate main story progress.
Raid stories can—and should—be thematically tied to Tyrian lore and enhance the game.
If any lore information from the raids is relevant to storylines in other content, we’ll make sure that information is also available in that other content.
Raids present story in a different manner than elsewhere in the game. They are not a replacement for Living World, expansion, or Personal Story.
Output from the raids team isn’t coming at the expense of other projects in development. Raids are made independently of Living World. We do communicate regularly with that team (and we share some resources and assets in both directions) but neither team prevents the other from doing its job.
The Forsaken Thicket story will conclude with the release of Stronghold of the Faithful on June 14.
Raids are not part of our Living World episodes; they are separate game elements.
More information regarding Living World Season 3 will be announced in the future. As always, content will be released when it is ready to ensure the optimal quality for our fans. Hang tight.
I hope this helps people understand things a bit better. Thanks!”
-Bobby Stein

Torolan.5816:

Chris McSwag.4683:

*Fractals, even on higher levels, are generally very easy, low pressure content. While that would make a decent environment for inexperienced players to learn, it also means that you will experience very little of the mechanics of a raid boss simply because it will be dead shortly after the fight begins.

*Spoken like a true elitist. True for maybe 10-20% of all GW2 players, complete nonsense for anyone else.

In general, I am glad for every new fractal, regardless if they recycle old stuff(but please, no Asura again! ) or make a new one.

I can’t really agree that it is elitist, given that fractals are not that hard even for relatively inexperienced groups. The mechanics are not very difficult for any of them and the biggest threat is agony. Fractals are designed to increase the challenge of the same content over and over, but it just ends up turning into HP sponges and higher likelihood of being killed in fewer hits; it’s not truly an increase in real difficulty.

And even if it was elitist, that doesn’t make it wrong.

Devs never said that raids would be completely separate, they said that raid story is not a pre-requisite for experiencing any Living World story.

I’m struggling to understand how the story in the raids being presented to the Living World is gating it, cuz it really looks like giving it to everyone

The Pale Tree may be a dragon champion, which would mean that it would gain power.

Seriously, this again? Make your own group. Also, I’ve never seen more than a few groups requiring those high qualifications. Instead of trying to join the ones that request experience try joining actual learning runs.

To sum up a lot of the comments and add a bit:

1. Ascended gear is unnecessary to be successful in raids. Helpful, but unnecessary. The only thing you truly must have for raids is the willingness and the patience to learn before you succeed, but since you raided in WotLK I’d say you should approach it with the same mentality: you won’t succeed the first time but when you do it will be glorious.

2. Follow up on ascended gear: do fractals. You’ll get ascended gear from fractals themselves, and it is good practice for the habits you’ll need for raiding (anticipating dodges, buff management, etc) especially at higher levels. This also gives you time to make ascended gear that you are missing and is a very good source of income at the same time.

3. Elite Specialization collections for ascended weapons. These aren’t very difficult, will make you money while you do it, and cost dramatically less than what making an ascended weapon would. I highly recommend doing the appropriate collections instead of making the weapons themselves.

4. Follow the meta until you learn the raids better. I know the meta is sometimes boring and uncreative, but until you learn the fights well enough to do them consistently, its better to take the most assured route.

5. I have to repeat a point from the first one because it’s the most important of all of them: Unless you are being carried or have the skill of the gods, you won’t succeed the first time. If you are like me, you won’t even succeed the 20th time. Eventually you will succeed, but only if you stick with it. Bring a good attitude, patience, and an open mind to learn and you will get there.

As someone who’s never even seen t1 wvw, how are they cheating?

They increased dungeon rewards from where they were drastically, to where they should have been all along: rewards via tokens rather than liquid gold, which they also increased a bit.

I do dungeons all the time with people, as I’m working on the collections and actually enjoy dungeoning for its own sake rather than running around obsessed with only doing the most monetarily rewarding activity. Checking for open groups is nice, but starting your own group is better and more likely to get people to join

Man Konig, I don’t know why they haven’t made you a Lore forum mod considering how you seem to know pretty much everything…thanks for spreading the knowledge and answering so many questions in such detail!

There’s an LFG field for RP, I check it farily frequently but no one ever puts up any groups. If you want to find a group for it try putting something in there when you are online

If you have gotten Ley Line Gliding, then the next one you should grab is Adrenal Mushrooms. Chak acid is really only an issue in TD and even then its not that bad unless you seriously screw up, so put that on the back burner.

Dawanarth.4601:

Maybe it’s a new Pale tree?

It’s probably just an attempt at humor by the person who wrote it, to show how little she’s been sleeping and it’s making her a little delusional. I’m more interested in the Gate powering up, what’s going to happen with Scruffy, and what Taimi has learned.

Where is what? /15chars

Mourningcry.9428:

Jerus.4350:

Mourningcry.9428:

So, in summary, basically a room with a boss across the board?

Naw, see I’m going to kill the boss, so why should I even have to, that’s just a waste of time. I should just zone into fractals, boss does some weird animation to summon a chest, I open the chest and boom done.

Wait, no! better yet, Fractal reward chests that spawn in home instances! no need to ever waste time again.

I’d reply to this, but Anet should really implement some functionality to do that for me.

Home instance? That’s extra loading screens! It should be delivered with the daily login reward.

Astralporing.1957:

@OnizukaBR
Difference is, you could do your own lfg in dungeons with no such restrictions, it would fill relatively fast, and you’d still succeed. Raids on the other hand pretty much force you into this kind of behaviour if you want a reasonable chance of succeeding.

Still not sure though if what you pointed out is what OP had problems with.

Don’t know what you are talking about, I’ve organized my own raids and won several times. Better yet, join a raid learning guild and learn with them. I did, and we’ve won as a group several times as well.

I think this sounds like a very logical incorporation of the mentality behind the Collection system implemented in HoT; make it a journey that fits the nature of the reward. Frankly, I like the way this sounds much better, though at the end of the day its still the same type of exp wall.

Some ways around that: link certain masteries to collection-type quests where the goal is not to find an item but to complete a certain action/challenge.

Example: Glide X Distance to gain level 1 upgrade to basic gliding (stamina boost), use x amount of stamina points to unlock lean techniques, use lean techniques to unlock advanced gliding techniques, etc.

The masteries that are linked to combat should likely stay a measure of experience, but this way the masteries that are affixed to actual skills rather than kills would come with actually practicing said skill.

EDIT: This could also replace gathering freaking mastery points to unlock stuff that you’ve already earned. Instead, when you’ve demonstrated the required knowledge to increase your skill with a certain mastery, you’d actually get it.

Blaeys.3102:

OriOri.8724:

@cptaylor – I haven’t started raiding yet so I did not know that but thanks for the information. It does do a lot to tie both themes together into the same plot.

Which is exactly why it shouldn’t have been revealed to us in a raid designed for a small subset of the game’s PVE population.

Try the new raid, it’s much easier than the prior two wings, and I’ve seen participation skyrocket. Also, if you zone in the NPC at the front will give a breakdown of every plot point that occurred in the previous two wings.