Guild Wars 2

digiowl.9620:

VOLKON.1290:

digiowl.9620:

VOLKON.1290:

Tolmos.8395:

Don’t forget that shift+tab goes backwards. I usually just tab spam until I get who I want, and if I miss him then a quick shift+tab puts me back where I need. Adds no more than 1-1.5 seconds before I’m ready to start shooting again.

It also seems to involve where your camera is facing, so I almost always point my camera right at who I want to target. Of course, I could be mistaken there and just pointlessly moving my camera… but meh, makes me feel better lol

You can also just simply click on your target as well.

Yeah right. For some reason we can click friendlies even tho we have no friendly targeted skills to use. So once you have more than 2-3 entities milling about, selecting that one target you want, while keeping yourself out of harms way, ends up being a pixel hunt that will drive a adventure game fanatic to rampage.

Well, I do ok at it in WvW, probably just a matter of getting used to not relying solely on the auto-target features.

Zerg blob or roamers? The latter seems to spread out more than your typical zerg or mob group.

Large number open field combat. On my mesmer I try to stay out of the heart of the combat and choose targets within it to place Feedbacks, phantasms, etc.

Also, while you’re falling, if you can click the waypoint fast enough you should actually survive…

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Qaelyn.7612:

Malchior.5042:

All professions have stability access and a stunbreaker. This is just pure ignorance.

The actual “pure ignorance” is pretending there aren’t MASSIVE differences in the number, duration and ease of use of stability and stunbreakers across professions.

I have no reason at all to bring my mesmer to this map. The stability is from a mantra and you need to be traited for them to be terribly effective. On the other is my warrior. I can place 3 utilities and an elite that all give stability.

Oh, I have fun there on my mesmer. Instead of being the one that needs stability, try being the reason the other guy needs it. Focus 4, Great Sword, so many ways to put the laws of gravity to the test.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

VOLKON.1290:

Here’s a crazy thought OP… you could, you know… complete the events and push them back the other way? I know, I know, it sounds way WAY out there, but that option does actually exist.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to post a series of videos showing how a solo player, at appropriate zone level, can solo group Dynamic content, particularly those involving champions, to illustrate how simple what you are suggesting is, while remembering this often happens in new player and sub 50 zones.

Some events require multiple people, not all do. There are some champions you can solo, others you can’t. Do what you can, ask in map chat for help with what you can’t. You’d be surprised how many people seem to show up out of nowhere when they see someone involved in an event.

digiowl.9620:

VOLKON.1290:

Tolmos.8395:

Don’t forget that shift+tab goes backwards. I usually just tab spam until I get who I want, and if I miss him then a quick shift+tab puts me back where I need. Adds no more than 1-1.5 seconds before I’m ready to start shooting again.

It also seems to involve where your camera is facing, so I almost always point my camera right at who I want to target. Of course, I could be mistaken there and just pointlessly moving my camera… but meh, makes me feel better lol

You can also just simply click on your target as well.

Yeah right. For some reason we can click friendlies even tho we have no friendly targeted skills to use. So once you have more than 2-3 entities milling about, selecting that one target you want, while keeping yourself out of harms way, ends up being a pixel hunt that will drive a adventure game fanatic to rampage.

Well, I do ok at it in WvW, probably just a matter of getting used to not relying solely on the auto-target features.

Tolmos.8395:

Don’t forget that shift+tab goes backwards. I usually just tab spam until I get who I want, and if I miss him then a quick shift+tab puts me back where I need. Adds no more than 1-1.5 seconds before I’m ready to start shooting again.

It also seems to involve where your camera is facing, so I almost always point my camera right at who I want to target. Of course, I could be mistaken there and just pointlessly moving my camera… but meh, makes me feel better lol

You can also just simply click on your target as well.

Here’s a crazy thought OP… you could, you know… complete the events and push them back the other way? I know, I know, it sounds way WAY out there, but that option does actually exist.

I’ve never had targeting select an ambient… are there settings you need to adjust perhaps?

Primordius is too hard! Needs nerf!

1,842,356 active with another 28.4% semi-active.

I still say Lion’s Arch is simply in the way… she’s attacking something under Lion’s Arch (Primordius). However it’s also Primordius’ plan… use Scarlett to infuse him with a burst of magic to allow him to fully awaken. She thinks she’s going to kill him, she’s actually going to feed and free him.

The problem with colors is that you could have troll commanders in WvW or at events giving bogus orders and people would follow the pretty colors.

This idea, however, with the range ability, I like that. Very nice indeed.

I think bosses should get a “scaled retribution”. The harder you hit it with a single blow, the larger the percentage of damage reflected back to you is.

VOLKON.1290:

Nike.2631:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

The suggestions forum was axed so that developers could get the relevant information in their own sub forums, not because players and non anet forumers couldn’t wade through it.

The problem is symmetrical – Devs couldn’t be reasonably expected to look in two forums for matters of importance to them. Player’s shouldn’t be forced to look in two forums to find the most important threads about WvW for example. A WvW CDI belongs in the WvW board where WvW players will find it without checking an arcane schedule over when WvW is active in the CDI boards.

That isn’t difficult to handle. You put a sticky in the WvW section informing us over there that there’s a WvW based CDI in the CDI section and include the link. As passionate as WvW players are, they’ll be over in a heartbeat.

The idea of a CDI section to the forums would work best, I think, if the creation of threads is restricted to ANet people such as Chris. It becomes quite easy to keep the section neat that way, and when a CDI topic is closed all relevant sub-threads can be migrated with it to a historical section for the CDI topics. If the players see an idea come up that they’d like to see have it’s own thread they can simply ask.

This seemed to get buried back on page two, so just throwing it up again.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

haviz.1340:

Me and my friend have both berserker’s gear.

Can we still play together in your ideal world without getting new gear? No.
Is it in accordance with “play how you want”? No.
Did Anet promise us dedicated healers and tanks? No.

Can you see what’s wrong with your arguments? It doesn’t matter if a profession can take any role when most of your stats come from your gear which is not easy to change.

Like the above poster already said, it is your argument that is flawed. The fact that almost everyone plays zerker, since the other stat combos are next to useless in PVE, is a big alarm sign that there is a huge balance problem in the game. All stat combos should have a role, and not just zerker.

Parties should have a mix of various gear combinations, and not 100% zerker. The current game design does not encourage such variety, because there is no trade off. Zerkers don’t risk anything, and don’t trade in any survivability for going max damage. Which is why there’s no reason not to bring a full zerker party. This is the dreadful result of the missing inter-class reliance. Exactly what I was talking about.

Things are changing with the new fights.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’m not saying I want the old trinity back, but some sort of inter-class reliance would really improve the combat. Rather than having a full zerker party, there should be just one zerker, one support, one healing, maybe one tank, and any of the classes should be able to take that role.

Right now everyone just stacks in a corner, spams all their boons at once, and then bludgeons the enemies to death. That is not interesting combat to me. It’s more like a game of wack-a-mole, but without the surprise of not knowing where the moles will pop out.

Have you tried the Marionette fight? How about Tequatl, or the Wurm? There’s a trend taking place where fights are moving further and further from the stack method being a viable means to defeat the encounter. We’re seeing that you don’t need some form of archaic trinity in order to have great fights.

I just think Lion’s Arch is simply in her way. She’s psychotic enough to completely disregard the people living there in order to achieve her goal, which ultimately is the goal of the dragon she thinks she’s going to kill by ultimately feeding it the magic it needs to fully awaken.

Lion’s Arch is the target? Nah, that’s too easy.

Lion’s Arch is in the way of her target, and she’ll be quite happy to burn through it to get to her target. More and more it smells like Primordus (Primordius? I forget.) is in her head and in her sights.

I think, ultimately, that she’s simply a pawn. A brilliant pawn, true, and the perfect one to help finish waking the dragon by giving it the magical injection it needs. She’s under the dragon’s control and doesn’t even realize it, all to help wake the dragon.

Unable to access log in server yada yada…

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

All: if you want to speculate about Rox and Braham, please create a new thread for it. This thread was created by DominationCreation.5703 to discuss Marjory and Kasmeer and to speculate about them.

Thank you!

To be honest, I’m not sure Rox and Braham are <cough> compatible in that regards.

Regarding Marj and Kasmeer, it doesn’t (to me) add anything to the story with them hooking up. It was actually a bit annoying to have to sit through them talking about it waiting for Rox to take over the scene. (Nothing to do with the lesbian aspect, just not really interested.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

VOLKON.1290:

It’s really a pity to read all these posts using some watered down straw man definition of “pay to win” then claiming GW2 is pay to win because it violates their straw man definition.

It’s really a pity that even though GW2 is one of the most blatantly P2W MMO’s on the market that people keep using various straw man arguments to claim it isn’t P2W every time a new P2W item is introduced into the gem store.

Yes, thank you, a perfect example of what I’m talking about. You nailed it, I appreciate that. Anyone that actually played a P2W game knows exactly what I’m talking about… buying special ships and ammo for example that you can only get with real cash and are twice as powerful (or more) than anything available in the game… you actually pay to win in PvP. So few people either remember what pay to win actually was or they’ve never even seen it at all and use the term in games like this where it doesn’t even remotely apply, and even worse are the people that actually do know what pay to win really means and they deliberately use the term out of context in order to evoke the emotional response tied to the stigma of the “P2W” label.

Although you did lay it on a bit thick with the “most blatantly P2W MMO’s on the market” comment I definitely appreciate you backing me up with your example. It was brilliant. It’s a timeless argument.

. . . you must have read a different post than I did, he was mocking your post by inverting it.

I know, I went for the counter-invert. Was feeling a little froggy.

They should move daily with greater randomization. Nice way to counter attempts at botting… always keep ’em guessing.

Don’t leash the mobs too far. They get bored with you and go home. Also, if you’re in an area that is impossible for the mob to counter-attack it’s going to blow you off. Beyond that, I’ve never had issues in this regards.

Here’s a pretty good article on pay to win and what it means. Worth a read.

“If there are any unique purchases that positively impacts the game experience and are only available with premium currency (aka real money), then the game is considered Pay to Win.”

ZudetGambeous.9573:

VOLKON.1290:

It’s really a pity to read all these posts using some watered down straw man definition of “pay to win” then claiming GW2 is pay to win because it violates their straw man definition.

It’s really a pity that even though GW2 is one of the most blatantly P2W MMO’s on the market that people keep using various straw man arguments to claim it isn’t P2W every time a new P2W item is introduced into the gem store.

Yes, thank you, a perfect example of what I’m talking about. You nailed it, I appreciate that. Anyone that actually played a P2W game knows exactly what I’m talking about… buying special ships and ammo for example that you can only get with real cash and are twice as powerful (or more) than anything available in the game… you actually pay to win in PvP. So few people either remember what pay to win actually was or they’ve never even seen it at all and use the term in games like this where it doesn’t even remotely apply, and even worse are the people that actually do know what pay to win really means and they deliberately use the term out of context in order to evoke the emotional response tied to the stigma of the “P2W” label.

Although you did lay it on a bit thick with the “most blatantly P2W MMO’s on the market” comment I definitely appreciate you backing me up with your example. It was brilliant. It’s a timeless argument.

It’s really a pity to read all these posts using some watered down straw man definition of “pay to win” then claiming GW2 is pay to win because it violates their straw man definition.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Just because you can’t imagine something doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t or that it doesn’t exist.

Of course, I’m not saying open world stuff shouldn’t exist.

I’m just hella bummed that they spent the last year focusing solely on that, and haven’t touched the dungeons that are in a sorry state.

Honestly, there’s just a lot of things I’m hella bummed about regards this game, and I’m not sure I’ll ever really be happy with it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I just generally don’t like other people. I like the cooperative nature and teamwork in dungeons (in games in general, not the atrocity present in this game), but I don’t really like other people…they kind of sap the fun out of everything. It’s always rush rush rush to get the tokens, skip this group skip that group stack here so we can kill boss faster hurry hurry hurry zerk only.

GW1 was just amazing…could play with people that I actually wanted to play with, or could opt to just have heroes+hench. Always had that “teamwork and cooperation” feeling even if it’s clearing some random zone in Cantha. In Guild Wars 2…regular open world is bland and boring, no real thought just click an enemy and wait until it dies then do it again…dungeons are rush rush rush zerker only hurry hurry tokens tokens.

But hey, at least I’m enjoying yoloPvP.

Something we agree on. I hate the hurry-up attitudes many have with dungeons. I simply don’t care about the speed of the run and despise skipping content. Even in Fractal, like the Maw, I’d much rather prefer to do a full clear than rush to the boss for the loot. Maybe that’s one thing that I like a lot with the new fights, you can’t rush them.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

I’m also on a dead server, and not sure I want to spend 30 bucks just to try out something I’m not entirely interested in.

Guesting is free.

Which US server isn’t awful?

Gate of Madness apparently has “very high” population, but there’s never anybody doing anything.

From personal experience I can say Jade Quarry has a very active population, and apparently Black Gate is also highly populated. I can’t say for others, haven’t been there.

Just because you can’t imagine something doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t or that it doesn’t exist.

Apathy.6430:

I’m also on a dead server, and not sure I want to spend 30 bucks just to try out something I’m not entirely interested in.

Guesting is free.

So you have people with mini-bots standing around LA all day while at work or school irl in order to buff their logged hours numbers. Too easy to abuse sadly.

Apathy.6430:

Meh, too many reasons to not care.

I was excited for a second, then I realized the amount of work it takes to get ascended gear, and I lost all interest again.

Yay vertical progression.

Don’t sweat the ascended stuff. It’s there if you want it but nothing requires you to have it. There’s no content you can’t access or do without it. I’m just taking my time getting mine, finally have the jacket, but most days I don’t even put any effort into it.

Still, I recommend checking out the new fights if you haven’t. You just may surprise yourself and find you’re having fun again.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Spoken with the experience of someone that hasn’t succeeded in these fights I guess? These are anything but mindless zergs. The Wurm kills, for example, are highly organized events. The Marionette less so due to familiarity, but again, you can’t zerg it. Even Tequatl is far from a zerg due to so many coordinated things that need to be done together in order to succeed.

Yeah, I’m basing it on Tequatl from release. Has it changed in the meantime? I have so little interest in PvE, especially the open world hogwash, that I haven’t even bothered checking out the “new” meaningless fights.

Oh man, it’s been fully revamped and is a completely different fight. You’ll want to be on TS for this one now, I highly recommend checking it out at least once.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Spoken with the experience of someone that hasn’t succeeded in these fights I guess? These are anything but mindless zergs. The Wurm kills, for example, are highly organized events. The Marionette less so due to familiarity, but again, you can’t zerg it. Even Tequatl is far from a zerg due to so many coordinated things that need to be done together in order to succeed.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

But speaking of PvE… no one has yet shared with us how fights like Tequatl or the Marionette could possibly be designed with a trinity system in place. I still say that one of the major flaws of the trinity, you can’t design fights like these, or the Jungle Wurm for that matter, with the archaic trinity.

Massive open world events are always a mindless zergfest in every game. I’m guessing that isn’t what the conversation is mostly about.

That said, a lot of heals are AoE based, so pretty easy to know how it would work…exactly like they do in WvW.

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Raine.1394:

Harper.4173:

Raine.1394:

Except they weren’t addressing GW1 when they said “We keep hearing other MMO developers espousing the “holy trinity” of DPS/ heal/tank with such reverence, as if this is the most entertaining combat they have ever played.” They were addressing WoW, essentially.

Doing well by yourself comes at a cost, sadly. It means there will be no rich interdependence and humans derive a lot of value from that. However, I’m glad you are liking the current conception of combat—not all are.

I’m just pointing out that this " lfg tank / healer" thing IS a real issue not something they made up. It’s something that was even in their previous game.

Rich interdependence between humans? You have that in GW2. I love playing with a great group where everyone knows what/when to do it and get amazing clear times and great loot by being good.
But each of us is free to do his own thing, and doesn’t fail if the others do. In a sense we’re all doing well together – but each of us is doing well on his own – and it adds up to something great – an epic run.

You make mention with people not being happy with the way the game is right now – my question is this : Have you thought if GW2 is the game for you?
IF you want a game with very well defined roles and a trinity in place there are at LEAST a dozen successful MMOs you can play and enjoy that feeling that you’re missing.
GW2 is unique in the fact that it is the ONLY MMO OF ITS KIND. Why would you change it? For a minority of players that think they know better?
And they might even know better in terms of knowing what THEY want. But why change the game for them?

You don’t have any interdependence, rich or otherwise in GW2. It’s everyman for himself, obviously. That is the nature of the Berserker battlefield; everyone enrages and just goes for it. It doesn’t matter that a random combo field might be operative.

Actually, I’m less focused on changing the game into something I want as to opposing irrationality in all its forms. That’s what’s happening primarily on the forums.

Wow, someone hasn’t done any WvW with a WvW guild I see. The potential for interdependence is quite strong, and when utilized it can make all the difference between winning and losing. (But of course PvP is dramatically different than PvE.)

But speaking of PvE… no one has yet shared with us how fights like Tequatl or the Marionette could possibly be designed with a trinity system in place. I still say that one of the major flaws of the trinity, you can’t design fights like these, or the Jungle Wurm for that matter, with the archaic trinity.

Raine.1394:

@Volkon, the game is hardly fun without a foil. You are the perfect foil, come back to me Volkon.

Sorry, weekend activities tend to keep me away from the forums that much. Besides, I’m more an epee kind of guy. Let me catch up.

Hellmasker.1649:

Chrispy.5641:

The conversation might have evolved a little, but the solutions sure haven’t gotten any better.

I still think that the best system would be to have Leaderboards expanded and make it to where we have seperate leaderboards that track Total, Permanent, Daily, Monthly, and temporary Living World Achievements. Let people filter out what they want to and don’t want to see. This way, the most dedicated will still be the highest achievers in all the land, and those that don’t want to do all the dailies anymore, will still be on top of their respective leaderboards.

Lmao you just don’t get it.
The “most dedicated,” as you put it, don’t care about the leaderboards. They want to finish everything they can for the sake of finishing it.
With no cap on dailies, there’s no ‘finish’ to it.

There isn’t supposed to be a ‘finish’. There never will be a ‘finish’. Every new living story, every new added content brings more achievements. It’s an MMO. The worst thing they could ever add is a ‘finish’.

The best option is the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” option. The system is fine and works for the vast majority of players in the game.

Psykotik.2691:

With a trinity there would maybe be some meaningful PVE.

Without any roles, GW2 cannot have PVE. Instead, it’s ZVE. Zerg versus Environment. And this isn’t fun because the individual is unable to affect the outcome for better or for worse. It’ll either succeed or fail regardless of what I do. And this isn’t fun.

Actually, you’re embarrassingly wrong. The reason we have zergs so common in PvE has nothing to do with the lack of trinity… it has to do with the PvE world being cooperative. People zerg because they get credit when they do, unlike games with competitive PvE where first group/person to tag the mob gets all the credit. Don’t blame the combat for the zerg.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

OptimistPrime.9283:

There are sexual differences in the races

The only difference between a male charr and a female charr is the face, tail and fur. Everything else is exactly the same. Same goes with asura.

Look at many modern mammals today. Sexual dichotomy isn’t a requirement in evolution and should only occur if there’s an advantage to be conveyed to the species. While lions, for example, have a pretty clear dichotomy most other big cats (and small) practically require you to sneak up behind them and lift up their tails. The fact that there are races that mimic this tendency really is refreshing and a nice touch by ANet.

I think this idea is reticulous.

Treborlavok.3504:

VOLKON.1290:

Treborlavok.3504:

I love how people are defending the gw2 model by saying the marionette fight wouldn’t be possible with a trinity system… What?!?!

Honestly have you even ever played a game like wow or eq? If we had a trinity and sub trinity systems this fight could be so much more than it is now…. All the fight is now is, quick burn these walking mobs down, now hurry and go in the door and spam dps, avoid this attack, spam dps… How engaging and how fun…

Seriously ppl when will you realize that anet screwed up the core game mechanics. They would’ve been better off going with a soft trinity even. It would allow for decent group make ups atleast. Anything better then the dps quick zergfeast the game is now…

Well, since you’re the one making the silly assertion that the Marionette fight would be so much better with a trinity how about you attempt to back up your words and give us an idea as to how you’d redesign the fight wrapped around the trinity concept. You’ll need to be concise, group make-ups, mechanics,… c’mon, share your brilliance with us that we may bask in the warm glow of it, ok? Please?

Sorry, I dont have any food.

That’s ok, I didn’t think you did.

Treborlavok.3504:

I love how people are defending the gw2 model by saying the marionette fight wouldn’t be possible with a trinity system… What?!?!

Honestly have you even ever played a game like wow or eq? If we had a trinity and sub trinity systems this fight could be so much more than it is now…. All the fight is now is, quick burn these walking mobs down, now hurry and go in the door and spam dps, avoid this attack, spam dps… How engaging and how fun…

Seriously ppl when will you realize that anet screwed up the core game mechanics. They would’ve been better off going with a soft trinity even. It would allow for decent group make ups atleast. Anything better then the dps quick zergfeast the game is now…

Well, since you’re the one making the silly assertion that the Marionette fight would be so much better with a trinity how about you attempt to back up your words and give us an idea as to how you’d redesign the fight wrapped around the trinity concept. You’ll need to be concise, group make-ups, mechanics,… c’mon, share your brilliance with us that we may bask in the warm glow of it, ok? Please?

sorudo.9054:

VOLKON.1290:

Raine.1394:

VOLKON.1290:

Raine.1394:

MrRuin.9740:

How is a trinity any less braindead than a zerg?

This is an interesting question. GW2 combat is of a very primitive form. It essentially describes the berserker battlefield where everyone enrages and simply goes for it. The trinity at least provides roles for combat. Consider IRL combat with infantry, artillery, etc. Modern combat is roles-based—it’s how humans approach solving problems in groups. The trinity at least provides a role-based format. GW2 combat provides nothing but the berserker, a fine archetype but rather unsatisfying as a complete combat system.

The simpler GW2 boss fights can allow for the berserker style of fighting, no one is denying that, however it’s certainly not limiting in that regards and anything else works as well. You can take any mix of characters, any mix of armor types and succeed. The difference between this and actual trinityesque scripted combat is that with the scripted trinity type you’re not only forced into a set number of tanks and healers (with the rest dps) but you’re also forced into a single add on driven dance in which you must follow the steps or fail. To make matters worse, you can’t deviate at all as a player… a tank must tank and only tank, a healer must heal the tank and ignore everything else around him, dps can only stand there and cycle their dps rotations. It is far, far more limiting in what you can do than in a trinity-free system.

Yeah, don’t forget that GW2 combat is totally scripted. How did I figure that out? Well, I read a ‘how to kill X’ thread so that I would know how to kill X and not mess everything up. I found if you follow the script in GW2 you will be successful. If you don’t you will fail. Kinda boring, eh?

This may come as a surprise, but there’s a difference between learning the dynamics of the fight and following a strict script. In WoW, for one, there’s an add on (I forget the name) that basically yells at you what’s about to happen next, where to go, what to do, etc. For those fights, you’re told step by step what to do next. With the wurm it’s much broader… say for example 20 people need to do this to get the wurm invulnerable while some groups take out eggs and spawns then when vulnerable burn the wurm… the difference is in GW2 we learn what to do but in WoW you’re told how to do it.

same thing in GW2, players yell at you what to do or curse at you because you like to do something you enjoy, outside the commander’s wishes.

Eh… what? What does that have to do with ‘knowing what you need to do’ vs. ‘scripted fights’? Besides, I didn’t see that yesterday with the TTS commanders at all. They guided people along, yelled at no one and even when we didn’t beat the fight talks went straight to trying to refine what we were doing to make the next run better. This is a far cry from a fight failing you because you didn’t follow the script so one player went down and resulted in a wipe.

Raine.1394:

VOLKON.1290:

Raine.1394:

MrRuin.9740:

How is a trinity any less braindead than a zerg?

This is an interesting question. GW2 combat is of a very primitive form. It essentially describes the berserker battlefield where everyone enrages and simply goes for it. The trinity at least provides roles for combat. Consider IRL combat with infantry, artillery, etc. Modern combat is roles-based—it’s how humans approach solving problems in groups. The trinity at least provides a role-based format. GW2 combat provides nothing but the berserker, a fine archetype but rather unsatisfying as a complete combat system.

The simpler GW2 boss fights can allow for the berserker style of fighting, no one is denying that, however it’s certainly not limiting in that regards and anything else works as well. You can take any mix of characters, any mix of armor types and succeed. The difference between this and actual trinityesque scripted combat is that with the scripted trinity type you’re not only forced into a set number of tanks and healers (with the rest dps) but you’re also forced into a single add on driven dance in which you must follow the steps or fail. To make matters worse, you can’t deviate at all as a player… a tank must tank and only tank, a healer must heal the tank and ignore everything else around him, dps can only stand there and cycle their dps rotations. It is far, far more limiting in what you can do than in a trinity-free system.

Yeah, don’t forget that GW2 combat is totally scripted. How did I figure that out? Well, I read a ‘how to kill X’ thread so that I would know how to kill X and not mess everything up. I found if you follow the script in GW2 you will be successful. If you don’t you will fail. Kinda boring, eh?

This may come as a surprise, but there’s a difference between learning the dynamics of the fight and following a strict script. In WoW, for one, there’s an add on (I forget the name) that basically yells at you what’s about to happen next, where to go, what to do, etc. For those fights, you’re told step by step what to do next. With the wurm it’s much broader… say for example 20 people need to do this to get the wurm invulnerable while some groups take out eggs and spawns then when vulnerable burn the wurm… the difference is in GW2 we learn what to do but in WoW you’re told how to do it.

Raine.1394:

MrRuin.9740:

How is a trinity any less braindead than a zerg?

This is an interesting question. GW2 combat is of a very primitive form. It essentially describes the berserker battlefield where everyone enrages and simply goes for it. The trinity at least provides roles for combat. Consider IRL combat with infantry, artillery, etc. Modern combat is roles-based—it’s how humans approach solving problems in groups. The trinity at least provides a role-based format. GW2 combat provides nothing but the berserker, a fine archetype but rather unsatisfying as a complete combat system.

The simpler GW2 boss fights can allow for the berserker style of fighting, no one is denying that, however it’s certainly not limiting in that regards and anything else works as well. You can take any mix of characters, any mix of armor types and succeed. The difference between this and actual trinityesque scripted combat is that with the scripted trinity type you’re not only forced into a set number of tanks and healers (with the rest dps) but you’re also forced into a single add on driven dance in which you must follow the steps or fail. To make matters worse, you can’t deviate at all as a player… a tank must tank and only tank, a healer must heal the tank and ignore everything else around him, dps can only stand there and cycle their dps rotations. It is far, far more limiting in what you can do than in a trinity-free system.

Raine.1394:

VOLKON.1290:

Raine.1394:

VOLKON.1290:

Raine.1394:

You obviously are unaware of the state of GW2 combat. Watch DnT dungeon videos at random. What you will see is stand here, because the boss can’t hit you and DPS the boss down. Then run through the instance this way so you don’t aggro any mobs. It is brain dead. Meters? How could they even have meters in this game. They don’t account for condition damage by player. How would players feel if the knew they were only doing ‘white’ damage. Regardless of whether meters are good or bad you couldn’t even have them in this game.

One way this analogy fails miserably is that you’re failing to recognize something extremely significant… In GW2, the DnT vids are showing you one way to do the fight. In WoW, the script is the only way to do the fight.

Not at all. The vids are simply showing the way the game is typically played. WoW is a sophisticated game that requires actual strategy to play. GW2 is pretty much stack and wail. You really don’t need strategy when there is realistically only one thing to do.

You keep up with this silly claim about WoW requiring strategy. However there isn’t a raid in the game where the players develop a strategy for the fight, it’s all spoon fed to them via a script.

By the way, doing Jungle Wurm right now (well, in a few minutes for the next try). We had all three heads down and flopping. Good luck trying to convince anyone that this fight is stack and wail or that it would be even remotely as good with an archaic trinity system.

gtg… strategy session before the fight…

That’s why i suggested you actually watch it, the trinity, in action. It would be impossible to ignore. Especially with the braindead stack and wail combat that is Gw2 combat.

Are you suggesting that the Marionette, Tequatl and the Jungle Wurm are “braindead [sic] stack and wail” fights? Like I’ve said (and you’ve chosen to ignore), I’ve been part of the trinity in action. The scripted nature of the fights is indeed impossible to ignore. You refuse to answer whether or not players actually develop strategies for the fights which is understandable because they don’t, they’re handed a script to follow and that’s it. Meanwhile, with the Jungle Wurm for example, people are developing strategies on the fly trying to figure out what works (grats to the two servers that succeeded so far). People are in TS offering suggestions, trying new things. You couldn’t do that with WoW raids, for deviating from the script led to near instant failure. When the add on tells you to do something, you do it or die.

Raine.1394:

VOLKON.1290:

Raine.1394:

You obviously are unaware of the state of GW2 combat. Watch DnT dungeon videos at random. What you will see is stand here, because the boss can’t hit you and DPS the boss down. Then run through the instance this way so you don’t aggro any mobs. It is brain dead. Meters? How could they even have meters in this game. They don’t account for condition damage by player. How would players feel if the knew they were only doing ‘white’ damage. Regardless of whether meters are good or bad you couldn’t even have them in this game.

One way this analogy fails miserably is that you’re failing to recognize something extremely significant… In GW2, the DnT vids are showing you one way to do the fight. In WoW, the script is the only way to do the fight.

Not at all. The vids are simply showing the way the game is typically played. WoW is a sophisticated game that requires actual strategy to play. GW2 is pretty much stack and wail. You really don’t need strategy when there is realistically only one thing to do.

You keep up with this silly claim about WoW requiring strategy. However there isn’t a raid in the game where the players develop a strategy for the fight, it’s all spoon fed to them via a script.

By the way, doing Jungle Wurm right now (well, in a few minutes for the next try). We had all three heads down and flopping. Good luck trying to convince anyone that this fight is stack and wail or that it would be even remotely as good with an archaic trinity system.

gtg… strategy session before the fight…

Raine.1394:

You obviously are unaware of the state of GW2 combat. Watch DnT dungeon videos at random. What you will see is stand here, because the boss can’t hit you and DPS the boss down. Then run through the instance this way so you don’t aggro any mobs. It is brain dead. Meters? How could they even have meters in this game. They don’t account for condition damage by player. How would players feel if the knew they were only doing ‘white’ damage. Regardless of whether meters are good or bad you couldn’t even have them in this game.

One way this analogy fails miserably is that you’re failing to recognize something extremely significant… In GW2, the DnT vids are showing you one way to do the fight. In WoW, the script is the only way to do the fight.

I didn’t even know there were giant eyes as drops. How embarrassing.