Because of the mobility a mesmer brings + portal he can go close, easily catch up to mid and go back to close without much of a problem in no time.
At least if you play the meta build
Not sure about that. The mobility of a mes is a bit of a myth compared to some other classes. Mes has a 30 sec blink skill + 25% movement speed if spec’d into chrono. Eles, warrs, rangers and thieves have far more mobility (in this case to cover greater distances in a short time) than mes in and out of combat. Portal is not carried by many mes from what I’ve seen + doesn’t help you get to mid.
Portal. They can be anywhere on the map and cover home.
This reason is probably true except about 95% of matches with a mes they don’t spec for portal. Which then makes them a relatively bad choice for mobility.
Because of the mobility a mesmer brings + portal he can go close, easily catch up to mid and go back to close without much of a problem in no time.
At least if you play the meta build
Not sure about that. The mobility of a mes is a bit of a myth compared to some other classes. Mes has a 30 sec blink skill + 25% movement speed if spec’d into chrono. Eles, warrs, rangers and thieves have far more mobility (in this case to cover greater distances in a short time) than mes in and out of combat. Portal is not carried by many mes from what I’ve seen + doesn’t help you get to mid.
(edited by Vague Memory.2817)
I see this many times when a match start: mes go close. Just wondering why people chose the mes for close at start of match. I’m guessing because they think they are not very good or tanky enough for the initial mid fight. But I may be wrong. I’m curious to know people’s motivation is for saying this.
Skyhammer is much better than it was. Before it favoured classes with ample push/pull CC to kill opponents and was unfair on those classes that didn’t or had no decent access to stability. It required me to complete change my build if this map came up, which is really annoying without saved build loadouts. I’m still not a great fan of this map because there are too many overhead structures that obscure you view when fighting, and too many combat areas that have restricted spaces that favours aoe spam classes.
This seems a bit daft. There are buy orders for amounts that can’t be filled because it is lower than the base price, and sell orders below the base that can’t be bought. Just seems a bit silly really. Why doesn’t Anet just prevent these orders.
I don’t really understand what the purpose of wells are suppose to be. Are these suppose to be for PvE trains and raids only? In PvP and WvW they are awful.
Except GW they don’t really do much, their diameter is too small, and their is nothing to help stop people just walking out of them.
I would say double their radius, add more CC/boons to them and increase their damage. At the moment they are pointless especially since at most they hit for 1 tick. They are uncompetitive with any of the other useful utilities.
I know they nerfed them due to bunker but what we have now is junk.
(edited by Vague Memory.2817)
Before ESL the PvP and class forums were listened to. Since Esports got introduced they only listen to pro leaguers, so the forums are just places to vent steam. Nothing said here influences PvP balance at all any more. That’s the truth.
Considering there were already esl and esport stuff in the beta week-end before gw2’s launch, i’d say that you are talking about a past that never existed.
Why you are deliberately trying to mislead people I’m not sure. But GW2 came out in 2012, the first tournament was 2014. I think it is pretty obvious that PvP is now balanced around Esport and pro-leaguers. Since usually what they say causes balance changes and things on the forums don’t. Even the major balance patches are spaced out so as not to conflict with touneys now, which was not always the case.
Actually it does make sense to have elite specs in PvP for everyone. It’s a bit of a weird situation mixing core and elites players together in ranked.
So when trying to sell things from my inventory onto the BLT I sometimes get a large box message appearing on screen saying Account verification, and 2 smaller messages inside with green ticks next to them showing that I fulfil the requirements. One of the smaller messages are that I must have HoT and the other I can’t remember. It goes away if I try to sell the same item again. What is the point of this. Isn’t this all supposed to happen behind the scenes since I fulfil all the requirements anyway?
Before ESL the PvP and class forums were listened to. Since Esports got introduced they only listen to pro leaguers, so the forums are just places to vent steam. Nothing said here influences PvP balance at all any more. That’s the truth.
I disagree with almost everything the OP says. In his opinion most classes are in a great position. I’ll comment on a few.
Warr. Yes way over the top at the moment, I often see a lot of players just trying to get away from them because of ridiculous high damage, blocks, invulns, condi negation, and more importantly extreme mobility in combat which means they travel faster than most of of your skill cast times. When people say the way to beat warrior is to kite them, I think that is a strong indication that they don’t have many effective counters to their skills. This is akin to breaking LoS, another indication of class strength or class weakness depending on whether you are the one doing this or not.
Herald needs too little skill for too much reward. Traps have no cast time and can be laid instantly all in one go. On a key macro guards can teleport to you and burst you down with traps and burns instantly. They need to give cast times to the traps, so that they are used tactically and can be interrupted. Cap domination with traps is an unfair advantage as most classes cannot fight on cap with them for too long without dying.
Reaper shroud is a cheap low skill I win button.
Mesmer is not in a good place. About 95% of mes play condi builds, not because it is so good, but because compared to other classes power builds are so relatively bad at damage, condi removal with virtually no access to stability.
Some of the problems are not inherent in the classes, but to do with skills that require little skill for a lot of effect (damage, healing, cc – or even worse combinations of these in one skill) or need no skill at all such as passive effects. Very large damage aoe fields should be reduced in diameter so you have to use skill to be rewarded and also be non-spammable. No class should hard counter another (that is is just terrible PvP design). Stop balancing classes around Esports when virtually no one is interested in it and will never be playing at that level.
Well that would be the point of adding more condi cleanse for power shatter so you don’t have to take inspiration and nerf your damage. There is a reason why not many people play power shatter in PvP.
If you look at other classes power builds they can easily incorporate ample condi cleanses. I would say the only other real problem is lack of access to stability (it gets old getting pull or pushed into traps by DHs), and it’s probably debatable on lack of damage. Mantras could also do with a rework as they are just cumbersome to charge in PvP.
There is no way around it, Mes takes a long time to get good at. Personally I don’t think PvP or WvW is the best place to learn the skill/trait combo strengths and weaknesses. PvE is the best way, first join champ trains in lvl 80 areas and then practice soloing champions on the map using different builds. Also the PvP training ground with the Foefire lord is also good as you face the lord with his multiple adds. Practice killing them all. They will respawn if you don’t kill them all quickly enough. Keeping attacking until none are left standing.
The reality is that mes has one of the lowest burst with sustain out of the all the classes. The base philosophy of Mes is that we give up crit chance and power because we have illusions and phants, in many respects it is an old school class where if you want high burst you are likely going to have a glass build. Some other classes can have very high burst and sustain at the same time.
It is even worse in WvW where every second build you run into whilst roaming is a 3k armour bunker rocking full trailblazer/dire.
RIP power mesmer.
I recently got back into WvW to get the gift of battle. As a mes the biggest problem is that an effective zerg build is totally different from a roaming building. Sometimes you can go to from a zerg to solo in an instant. Being caught solo in a zerg build usually results in instant death. Once ANet get their act sorted out and introduce a build saver it will make this much less of an issue.
Honestly this is the best season yet. I’ve found that team members are much less salty than before. Personally I think this is because they uncoupled rewards from tier progress. So you can still get rewards without relying on a certain win ratio that is based on team effort rather than personal skill. All they need to do now is come full circle and have totally separate soloQ and teamQs.
If ANet accepts that teams Vs solo pugs are unfair, then it has to accept that duo Vs solo pug is also unfair. This is logical. You can’t have one foot in and the other foot out. Eventually we will have team and solo only Qs again, because it makes the most sense. The mixing of teams and pugs was solely for the sake of ESports that the majority of players aren’t interested in.
All I see are necros who are are about to get owned go into I win reaper mode pretty much when your skills and dodges have been wasted on their double HP health.
If you can’t “break the tank” then I’m sorry but you don’t play well enough.
Warriors seem to be the only problem for power mesmers sustain-wise as well as damage wise. Engineers come close too, as well as good dragonhunters.But anyone else will die with ease. Here, this is the build that I run in PvP:
I guarantee you that this build will make your life easier.
Swap Signet of Illusions for Portal Entre and Signet of Humility for Gravity Well.
Sorry but maybe we are playing different PvP. I’m talking about ranked and not unranked as your build suggests. I’ve played inspiration for a long time, and there is no way you are breaking a ele, druid, or engi tank with that build unless they don’t know their class. Your dps is too poor to burst them down, I know. All that build will do 1v1 is a stalemate if you both can play well. You’ll both be dancing around for for ages until one of you get bored and dies or another player comes to end it.
Inspiration Minor – Remove 2 conditions when you use a heal skill
Inspiration Master(?) – Remove 1 condition when you use a shatter skill
Mantra of Resolve – Remove 2 conditions x 2 usage
Well of eternity – Removes conditionsYou have enough access to condition clear via just the inspiration line, you can change your heal to the mantra heal to make more use of the minor condi cleanse ability. If you are facing even more pressure you have another utility skill that cures conditions. That is more than what most classes have on their bar to clear conditions.
You clearly didn’t even read the title of the thread or even my post at all.
I could add at least 10 more skills to that list, some I consider should have been high on the OP’s. How about every skill that does high aoe damage and dazes/interrupt you per sec and is activate for fairly long periods. Example air overload, which also has a large area radius and hit multiple targets. Such an I win skill button. Another is Daredevil Vault.
There is a reason most mesmers use blink/portal instead of a damage trait – because a wise warrior doesn’t fight, he captures points!
(Go play colloseum, there it is more about fighting)
Well holding points is important too. Just capturing it and losing secs later is no very effective.
I know how to rotate, I win my 1v1’s and hold out during 1vX/disengage when appropriate. My teammates on the other hand are seemingly straight outta Best Buy with their CD keys. Yeah I make mistakes too and I’m well aware of them, but man, oh man.
You are aware that this is your SUBJECTIVE opinion?
I think it is easy to figure out if you are in a bad team. For instance 3-4 of your team mates are fighting one tank (ele or warr) for a cap when they already have the other 2 caps. You barely ever encounter other team mates in a match, because they die so frequently, or are trying to fight 3 caps at once. I’ve been in teams were everyone except me is only doing ranged combat because they can’t/won’t melee (and my main is a mes). Team members who walk pass you when you are downed (when no one is near you) so that they can die in a 1v3. This is in ranked. There are so many more ways to to tell if the overall team is bad.
This is just another skill that goes on the long lists of HOT spec issues.
Its not OP because everything in HOT is OP but it does lack a certain amount of skill.
Yeah I agree no one skill should be so good that a class only uses that skill throughout a fight and be that successful with it. Sometimes I don’t get Anet logic, or why they are so slow to respond to these issues.
I love playing power shatter in PvP, but it is very difficult to play in the current condi meta. It is hard to balance decent damage with enough condi cleanse. It seems as though 95% mes roll with condi builds. It would be nice to have more build variety. Personally I think they need to add more condi cleanse to the power trait lines. If I roll with the inspiration line I can’t break the tank of most classes. Although inspiration provides nice support it is wasted in most pugs.
I’ve never encountered an effective one skill build before but vault is definitely one of them 6.5-8K hit with a built-in evade that is repeatable several time in a role, wtf.
So you can’t hit them in the air due too evade, but you don’t want to be in their fairly large landing area because you don’t want the massive damage so you have to block, or dodge. There is a narrow window where you can actually hit them, I see a lot of people having a problem with it in ranked. I think it should have the evade removed or increased initiative to use so it can’t be used as an effective one skill build.
Guaranteed an item to reset masteries will end up for sale in the future.
I’ve come across this several times, has happened to me and I’ve seen it happen to others. The daredevil elite “impact strike” seems to keep repeating itself on the target which is downed without actually finishing them even though the thief is not close to you. You character keeps going through the motions being knocked up and then being hit back down to the ground several times in a row (interrupting your skills and doing damage until dead). So you never get a chance to fire any downed skills off. I’ve experienced this action repeating itself 5 times in a row.
Is this an exploit?
(edited by Vague Memory.2817)
Mesmers are suppose to be gay, and like most gay characters they dress better than others. Obvious really when you think about it.
I noticed this a lot. I never see these phantasms appear. Do you have lower health than other phants and are they dying almost instantly because they spawn so close to the target player?
The ultimate weakness is me playing a Warrior, lol. I am absolutely kittene at it.
Lol, well practice a bit and get the right build and you too will be unstoppable.
They got it right in the beginning with soloQ and teamQ. My guess is it will go full circle to this again. Matching solos against teams is unfair, and let’s be honest this was only done to try and get people more interested in Esports which few people actually care about, or even play at that level. However not having a team only option is also not good since some people prefer it to solo.
What were Anet smoking when making this class. Ample combination of blocks, invulnerability, extreme mobility, very high damage (and stability) with short skill cast times. In PvP a moderate to good warr just mows down the opposition, and I often see 2-3 players on my team (sometimes including me) just trying to take just one down.
A warr can just running around in a circle on cap throwing out high damage while taking min damage. They just seem to be an over the top class compared to others, with possibly the exception of DHs. Do these guys have any weaknesses that doesn’t require absolute fine timing to disrupt them?
So I just encountered this in a match. A thief who never appeared and was able to lay condi traps everywhere I was walking around me. Was this an actual build or some kind of cheat? There seemed no defense from it at all in a 1v1. Note he never appeared and just lay traps constantly loading me with condis.
The AA on sword main hand is truly awful. I very rarely use it because it requires standing still for too long which is usually a death sentence for a mes, and it is slow execute. This should be one powerful hit with an effect instead of 3 attacks. Possibly turn it into a projectile. This really should have been on a melee class who goes toe to toe with opponents.
Mesmers have been continually nerfed for a while now. I’ve only met about 2 mes in PvP who can play the class very well. The rest I’ve come into contact with are pretty average. Seriously mes in general is not a very strong class, but people who get confused by clones/phats will die if they can’t figure who the real one is. I think the strongest classes right now are DH and warrior.
Btw mes is my main.
Just curious really. Noticed that blue berserker and rampager’s armour at the moment sell for 5-7 silver. But why? For the mystic forge?
Areanet likes to destroy classes and make them absolute trash once people start QQing. Unless its something faceroll like Dh then they wont nerf it much cuz then their PvE fanbase will stop spending money on the game if they can no longer spam random buttons and be succeful.
But the classes that actually require skill, like rev, mes and thief will get nerfed even harder in the future.
So enjoy while it lasts cuz it wont last for long, thief is gonna get hit hard next patch I can assure you that.
Anet wants you spam your stuff and get carried by passives , so that way there will be less disparity between noobs and good players therefore less QQ on the forums about matchmaking.
So I called it, thief is next.
If that were true then DH would be next because people complain the most about them, but instead Anet buffed them.
At the moment they need to go full soloq (not sure why they left duo in) and not stack classes when choosing match ups.
Can the devs clean up the duration of this announcement. Sometimes “Your lord is under attack” keeps going well after you’ve killed the perpetrator(s). I’ve even had this announcement continue after the game has finished and I’m back in the heart of the mists. It’s been like this for quite some time and it’s annoying to hear it when no one is in your base any more.
It seems almost every team I’m on either get wiped or can’t fight on point with DHs because of their traps + burns + sustain + pull. I often see 2-3 of my teams downed in one go. DHs seem to have an unfair advantage on cap and a disproportionate effect on the outcome of the match. It doesn’t help that pretty much all of my matches have 2 or 3 DHs on one team because they are so popular.
Are the devs going to balance DHs, or should I just roll one and wait until only DHs are playing PvP.
+1 to OP. One of the few honest posts I’ve read for a while. Absolutely right about PvP league just being another grind like any other part of the game. This myth held by some people that only the best players reach the higher divisions is false. I know because last season I got to Diamond through pure grind queuing solo. People playing approximately the same amount time with a similar skill ending up in very different divisions just shows how bad the league is at determining individual skill level.
Well now that Colin has left, it will be interesting to see what direction they go in for class balance. At the moment I think this is not so predictable. If they are serious about balancing there will be huge nerfs across the board for several elites to bring them in line with other classes, as opposed to continuing the current ridiculous arms race of increasing damage/survivability, and nerfing according to Proleague wisdom.
Being reduced to a portal and moa bot isn’t anything to celebrate. If people think this is progress I despair.
There are good, average and bad thieves same as with any class. The good thieves I saw playing regularly before HoT are still the ones that are owning people today. I have a thief I play badly, but it is one of the best classes to get your meta achievement with if you don’t often play anything outside of your main class because you can fill a useful role of decaping and picking off low health players. However to play thief well obviously takes some level dedication.
I honestly don’t think mesmers are going to see any big changes with this balance patch. Mesmers got hit by the nerfhammer hard last time around, I don’t see them targeting one class like that. The continuum split part may well become reality, but that’s just removing an unfair advantage. It’s not even a nerf.
Personally I think Scrappers and Reapers are going to be hit hard this time around. Heralds are going to take a hit too. Warriors and Dragonhunters are going to get some sustain but lose some of their burst potential. Tempest and Druid will gain dmg while losing some sustain and healing. Thieves are going to be left largely as they are because nerfing the other professions will bring them to a more level playing field.
Totally agree. This is what should happen anyway.
After watching that makes me think that the devs should not be balancing around what they see in Proleague, because the reality is that most people aren’t playing at that level. You have 2 mes players in the stream saying mes are really strong and actually could do with some nerfs which is contrary to what a lot of other mes think. Saying that mes is good because of 2 abilities (portal-bot and F5) while only having one viable build makes no sense to me when you solo queue. It does make sense if everyone is playing in teams and has prearranged defined roles, but that is not the norm outside of Proleague.
If yo try to play power shatter mes you are going to have a hard time against certain classes that can pretty much counter anything you do, but you can’t do the same. In particular most of power mes damage is spread across multiple avoidable attacks (max shatter = 4 separate attacks, GS auto = 3 separate attacks, auto MH sword = 3 separate attacks etc.) which usually means you never get a full damage hit, and when you do they often equate to a single hit damage from another class.
What I do agree with from the stream is that if they nerf anything they should roll back the powercreep for all classes at the same time. Nerfing some and buffing others perpetually isn’t getting at the real problem. Balance should mean that any class should have a close approximate equal chance of beating each other at the same skill level without inherit advantages or disadvantages against another class. Though this does not seem to be what Anet interprets class balance to mean.
I just find it bizarre that players have to keep pointing out obviously OTT classes. The devs need to queue up for ranked solo and see what is going on for themselves (using all classes – if they know how), because they seem to have a distorted view of PvP that is not based on reality. With the introduction of elites they broke many of the basic rules of fair and enjoyable PVP game play. Counterplay being one of many.
Is this thread a joke? Mes is the only class that has been consistently nerfed pre and post elites, to the extent that there is just one viable build left. To nerf mes any more would be to simply remove the class from the game.
What some people do not realise is that Mes has always been a high threshold skill class to play well. It is one of the few classes that has rotations that frequently cycle through both weapon sets constantly, unlike other classes that get away with just using one set 90-100% of the time. Mistakes made in play is punishable by insta death.
Don’t mistake player skill for class superiority because the truth is Mes is not among the top classes to play at the moment nor indeed for most of its life time, in fact the only time was during its brief fling with the chrono bunker meta (boring as it was) and that was quickly remedied by the devs who smashed all and any possibility of a mes playing that build again, even to the extent of punishing skills that weren’t even used in the bunker meta. However, ele, druid, and scrapper bunker remained untouched even though they can be just as immovable as a chrono bunker was on point.