I really feel like the Warrior nerfs are being handled incorrectly.
Hammer is slow and telegraphed, it should be devastating if you land it…and good players already do a really good job of making it quite a challenging to pull off well.
The problem with Warrior right now is that the buffs to passive regen and sustain, mostly the healing signet buff has made it really easy to survive even for those who aren’t very good. The nerfs should have been there, not HUGE damage nerfs to the hammer.
I can already see what will happen. The complaints will continue, because the sustain from the signet is the problem not the damage, and then the signet will get nerfed too and we will be left with a shoddy hammer and no strong sustain regen option anymore.
Do it right, leave the damage but fix the passive healing first.
Don’t let them bother you OP, just laugh at the baddies like I do. Been killing people as Warrior since long before the healing signet buff and will continue to do so if it’s nerfed. Just laugh knowing they are actually crying because they are bad at the game.
People are whining, it will get nerfed, that’s what Anet does…cater to the whiners. No sense worrying about it.
Every time I read someone complain that Warrior is OP I see it translated by my brain as :
“I’m really bad. I don’t bring stun breakers, or waste them if I do. I also waste all my dodges on auto attacks. I can’t survive for even 8 seconds and waste all my CC during that 8 second immunity.”
Yep, ignore the Engineer part. Which has been my main since beta 2. I don’t have issues fighting warriors on either one of those professions, or Mesmer either…because I don’t do all the bad player mistakes I listed above.
I’m sorry you have trouble vs these very telegraphed attacks, keep practicing buddy.
This is sort of build dependent. With that aside and trying to generalize though…
Good, burst thieves can be good. My pick is Mesmer though, they have the most tools for avoiding the big telegraphed attacks while being able to relentlessly apply pressure at the same time.
Thieves can avoid the attacks like no other, but they can’t keep up the pressure while avoiding like the Mesmer can.
Every time I read someone complain that Warrior is OP I see it translated by my brain as :
“I’m really bad. I don’t bring stun breakers, or waste them if I do. I also waste all my dodges on auto attacks. I can’t survive for even 8 seconds and waste all my CC during that 8 second immunity.”
Am I blind? I came to check this thread since there were still no balance fixes in today’s update (only logged in to check the notes)….and I STILL do not see any mention of toning down this boring, no skill, condition spamfest that has become GW2 PVP.
Someone please tell me I am blind and just missed it.
Your neither blind, nor missed it. They dont intend to tone done condi spam, in fact they will further reinforce it by nerfing the few remaining non condi builds left. As example see the nerfs to thief stealth and s/d builds, whats left d/d condi spam!
Been about a month since I’ve played, keep checking the forums from time to time…got all excited when I saw there were finally game update notes posted again. I thought for sure they had to finally have toned down the condi spam a bit, since they have commented in threads several times stating they would but were waiting until after PAX to do any balance changes.
So much for that.
They are hell bent on destroying the PVP in this game huh? Beta was better.
Am I blind? I came to check this thread since there were still no balance fixes in today’s update (only logged in to check the notes)….and I STILL do not see any mention of toning down this boring, no skill, condition spamfest that has become GW2 PVP.
Someone please tell me I am blind and just missed it.
Lol, I’ve played phantasm Mesmer plenty for dueling its so strong its silly. Illusionary Unload hits for tons of damage, even on tanky people – claiming it only hurts glass cannon is a flat out lie and you know it. Especially once you get a couple of them up at the same time, damage is crazy….and you don’t have to do a thing. Just get them up and avoid taking damage, with all the tools to do so.
Note – I am not against buffing other stuff that requires ACTIVE play to execute.
nerfing the phantasms would affect a ton of builds that arent phantasm builds. every weapon has a phantasm andseriously having my illusionary warlock doing 20 percent less would be terrible for my entire build(which is based on reflections,and conditions) i need the phantasm to do at least some dmg. how is mesmer supposed to keep up with any of the other classes if our dps gets nerfed that much?
u whine about a phantasm while a necro can melt your life within 5 sec by pressing 2 buttons and a warrior can stunlock u down and a thief stun and destroy u within seconds…. hoow can u guys still whine about mesmers whereas we are barely represented in spvp and a team only wants us for portal and veil?
My specific issue is only with the OH pistol phantasm, Illusionary Duelist.
The CD is only 16 seconds and getting 2 at a time up is extremely easy, don’t pretend.
You must have missed my first post where I clearly said there were far worse things that needed fixing first (IE. all the cheese builds – Condi Necro, Spirit Ranger, etc).
Also – funny that you point out how seldom Mesmer is in tPVP in the same post that you complain about stun warriors while Warrior isn’t in tPVP at all either. Pretty sure in the entire tournament recently only one team ran Warrior. I had also even specifically said it was just phantasm builds and just in 1v1 scenario.
Lets not forget that Stun and Daze can be stripped as well with a stun-breaker, it immediately cancels the effects of Stun/Daze.
while that’s just fine, there’s a lot of spammable CC’s. warriors that use mace/shield and hammer can chain CC someone for quite some time. most people only use one stunbreak, so if you’re unfortunate to get hit again, the warrior can just faceroll CC’s on you over and over.
the problem lies in the ability to just spam stuns and other CC’s
A warrior using M/Sh H has very limited mobility. The problem lies less in the fact that they can chain CC and more in the fact that you don’t know what to use your stunbreak on for maximum efficiency. There is still massive delay on Earthshaker, the only way to really land it versus a good player is to already have them in CC. Let’s not even talk about Backbreaker, the wind up might as well be a red flag telling you to pop stability, dodge, pop an evade frame. How about those ridiculously long Hammer cooldowns also? I am willing to be they are some of the longest in the game. Not going to bother making sure, it isn’t worth my time. You can check it out though.
Most people don’t even wait to use their dodge to avoid big attacks, let alone properly use their stun break.
Hell most the time people freakin dodge the moment you move toward them just auto attacking….so then you skull crack or w/e them as soon as they are done dodging because they just dodged for no reason at all.
Lol, I’ve played phantasm Mesmer plenty for dueling its so strong its silly. Illusionary Unload hits for tons of damage, even on tanky people – claiming it only hurts glass cannon is a flat out lie and you know it. Especially once you get a couple of them up at the same time, damage is crazy….and you don’t have to do a thing. Just get them up and avoid taking damage, with all the tools to do so.
Note – I am not against buffing other stuff that requires ACTIVE play to execute.
I wouldn’t say stuff just for the hell of it.
The damage is not “crazy”. And I’m not trying to have a “who’s better than who”, but I’d like to play against you with you using the phantasm build just for testing, if you don’t mind?
I don’t even play right now because the current meta is so boring, I just came on to check the PVP forum and see if anything has been fixed in the last 2 weeks.
Feel free to add my account name though and if I’m on I’ll gladly duel.
Fwiw, I don’t think the damage is crazy when its just one. The problem is you are allowed to have multiple of the same kind up, which means 2-3 illusionary duelists can be doing unload on you constantly.
I agree with the OP. Its not conditions themselves its some professions have way too much access to reapply, long duration, no real skill required to land, etc.
I used to love PVP in this game, lately I just log in to GvG with the guild because the meta is so incredibly boring but hotjoin is just a roflstomp. So its either no challenge or deal with all the cheese. Since neither is too enjoyable and games should be fun, I just don’t bother atm.
Lol, I’ve played phantasm Mesmer plenty for dueling its so strong its silly. Illusionary Unload hits for tons of damage, even on tanky people – claiming it only hurts glass cannon is a flat out lie and you know it. Especially once you get a couple of them up at the same time, damage is crazy….and you don’t have to do a thing. Just get them up and avoid taking damage, with all the tools to do so.
Note – I am not against buffing other stuff that requires ACTIVE play to execute.
I take it back. The more I play this meta the more I hate it. Rangers are kittening op and so are necros. I am bored of spam wars. Spirit rangers are worse than necro and s/d thief. But all 3 suck balls and are dull and boring.
A good condition Necromancer should never lose to a condition Engineer. It would be to due to substantial errors on the Necromancer’s part if the Engineer wins.
Why aren’t engineers consider as op? They have similar access to burning plus confusion.. and they are as tanky as necros, less aoe but better mobility.. they should be tonned down imo.
Could be just because Engineer actually takes a little bit to master and really pull off that effectively…literally anyone can just make a Necro or Spirit Ranger and go faceroll.
I know, I’ve done it.
Go make a necro and spirit ranger, then record yourself and show us how faceroll it is.
Cause I know for one your going to find it hard.
Not sure if serious…
As you can see, I said I already have done it. In fact its so easy I found it very boring and couldn’t believe people find it fun to play.
It cant be that bad. They have a tournament going on right now. Who is gonna fund $10 grand on a busted game?
Just think of condi AoE dmg as regular dmg and your all good.
It is bad, and even people in those top tournament teams have made threads about how horrible and not enjoyable the current aoe condition spam meta is.
This was one huge step in the right direction for A-net. We need MORE telegraphed skill animations – not less. Way too many, VERY important abilities, are indistinguishable from others.
Why aren’t engineers consider as op? They have similar access to burning plus confusion.. and they are as tanky as necros, less aoe but better mobility.. they should be tonned down imo.
Could be just because Engineer actually takes a little bit to master and really pull off that effectively…literally anyone can just make a Necro or Spirit Ranger and go faceroll.
When you begin to see 5 rangers teams, you SHOULD think there is a problem with the meta. Just sayin’ …
I’ve seen 5 Thief Teams, 5 Mesmer Teams (go team Mesmer), 5 Necro Teams, 5 Guardian Teams… and they all stomped people… This is not a reflection of “the meta”.
Spirit Rangers are good. But the way you are whining about them is stupid and unjustifiable. I’m hard pressed to think that you are a good player.
ever see a 5 warrior team stomp a team of necro, engi, ranger,mesmer in soloq?
Can I just say that Warriors are amazing right now in tpvp and they are currently the hardest counter to necro’s and engi’s.
They are, the problem is to be truly effective they really need a coordinated team taking advantage of that locking down.
Been hoping we would see more Warriors in the tournaments working on that counter, but seems like the answer was actually MOAR SPIRIT RANGERS lol.
I honestly cannot believe anyone can even try to say Spirit Ranger isn’t faceroll. It is incredibly high reward with very little skill required. That’s the definition of a faceroll build.
I think the only thing probably stronger and even easier to play is phantasm mesmer for 1v1s but we’re talking tPVP balance here and they aren’t even played there so no one’s talking about it.
Skyhammer is great, it has a whole new way of taking out the opposition – especially silly super tanky troll builds – with new tactics. Every profession can set up to use the map to their advantage, some people just don’t want to…I for one really like it and find it keeps things from getting stale. I also have more fun on that map than others usually – win or lose – due to those dangerous pitfalls.
Please don’t listening to the vocal whiners again A-net.
You know what the burden of proof has been passed onto those who point out why this is OP. All I hear is there are counters. I know of a counter build on one class. However, most of you can not post a counter build on any class that actually shuts this one down.
Do not post a skill post a build. Post a build on another class that actually shuts this build down. Here you go http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/. You all keep saying there are counters why not take the time to show them.
I have sneaking suspicion that none of you actually can.
@galandor I would love for you to show us that engi SD build so I can rip it apart and show you why it will be lackluster if not useless.
Hmmm. While you will survive with that build I have no doubt and its my own fault I never said WvW only I will bite. I have actually said before I do not find the build to be OP in spvp. This build is not very good imho. Now in Skyhammer map this build would be very very good. But every where else not really. It does not shut down the warrior it literally just survives him. And even then a good warrior using the rather cookie cutter build won’t be killed by this. And solo he might not be able to kill you (fully dependent upon how many stuns hes gets off). However, you really do not have enough to shut him down you just have enough to survive.
This is a tanky condi build that tries to work as DPS but won’t work as either. As you already know Condi durtion>Condi damage where both are not available. I would argue that in Spvp if you are using bombs you could shut this build down simply because of the threat of getting into melee, the need to stay on point, and the area coverage. This many defensive traits wont leave you bunker enough to be a bunker and not enough DPS to be a threat.
It also needs to be pointed out that this wont leave you any better off once you are stunned (in terms of how you still cant fight back and how he will get his combo off). While you do have some blind you do not have the cc to shut down the warrior.
Heh, I play almost that exact setup and kill Warriors all the time. I don’t need your advice, you asked for a build that could counter it…that one does. Survives the damage well while having great condi output and many ways to mess up the Warriors plan including disengages, instant blinds, short CD knockbacks, cripple field, etc.
For WvW add +condi damage utility buff and -40% stun duration food (this is what I run when roaming).
You know what the burden of proof has been passed onto those who point out why this is OP. All I hear is there are counters. I know of a counter build on one class. However, most of you can not post a counter build on any class that actually shuts this one down.
Do not post a skill post a build. Post a build on another class that actually shuts this build down. Here you go http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/. You all keep saying there are counters why not take the time to show them.
I have sneaking suspicion that none of you actually can.
@galandor I would love for you to show us that engi SD build so I can rip it apart and show you why it will be lackluster if not useless.
Now that (almost) every warrior is using this build, and the fact that warriors are the most played class, I and many other people on the forums in different professions have had to make builds just to find how to counter all these stuns.
I’m not saying stunlock, unlimited healing warriors are OP but when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class, it becomes OP.
(not replying to anything replying to this post, warriors are impossible to argue with)
Thank you so much for realizing that Necromancers are OP!
Everyone has to run conditions removal because of Necromancers, so by your logic Necromancers are OP.
In fact, on my Warrior I run Sig of Stamina, Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, and Melandru runes (-condition food in WvW too)…..all just to try to counter Necromancer conditions.
Now that (almost) every warrior is using this build, and the fact that warriors are the most played class, I and many other people on the forums in different professions have had to make builds just to find how to counter all these stuns.
I’m not saying stunlock, unlimited healing warriors are OP but when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class, it becomes OP.
(not replying to anything replying to this post, warriors are impossible to argue with)
Thank you so much for realizing that Necromancers are OP!
Everyone has to run conditions removal because of Necromancers, so by your logic Necromancers are OP.
In fact, on my Warrior I run Sig of Stamina, Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, and Melandru runes (-condition food in WvW too)…..all just to try to counter Necromancer conditions.
What’s funny is at least on Asura the Skull Crack animation is already different from an auto attack. Auto attacks swing wider from the outside sweeping across the body. Skull Crack is a quicker swing of the mace that starts high and sort of centered, then it swings down quickly and slightly toward the outside.
The issue is Asuras and their tiny animations for everything.
Warrior class was too OP for tournament so they banned it. Not sure how Defektive slipped in but commentators were so focused on counting all the condis flying around they probably didnt notice lone warrior.
you come into this thread calling this build OP, overexaggerating things and ask people to be objective. When you and other people clearly refuse to listen when they actually give you advice on how to counter it. Of course people are going to troll you, especially since Warriors are still NOT viable in pvp tournaments and have been at the bottom of the dumps for a year.
And maybe if you had listened instead of complaining, you would know that this is the easiest and most effective counter to this build for newbies who consistently take skull cracks to the face.
No kitten right?! I’m getting pretty annoyed at these threads and everyone screaming about it when the counter is easily available if you choose.
I run this food on my Engineer since Engis are weak to CC due to lack of stability and not many stun breaks if you want to run kits.
Hell even some of the people have said kitten like ‘The build isn’t OP in PVP, but it is in WvW".
1 – WvW was never meant to be balanced.
2 – WvW has the counter available in the form of a simple food.
3 – People want to just keep crying about it being OP rather than trying to counter. I run Melandru runes, Cleansing Ire trait, Sig of Stamina and Berserker stance all to counter conditions. Crying nubs, how much counter stun do you run?
Lets just make it that when warriors missed a burst, the adrenaline is still used so everyone is happy
This way, the mace f1 spammers will think more clearly before using their burst, and the others can effectively clean the conditions
Lots of us want this change anyway bc then Cleansing Ire would work better with melee weapons.
However, at the same time as this change – they need to fix Thieves being able to just spam their Stealth opener attack and not get revealed even when you block it, etc. They just spam it against your block until the block wears off and the attack hits, like Warriors missing their burst and retaining adrenaline but 10x worse.
Yeah strength line is really only good for trolling with full glass cannon builds.
I was having fun messing with an Axe build using Kick with Physical training trait. Best ever was a 5k kick into an 11k Eviscerate on a squishy. Nothing like doing 5k Kicks haha
Best HPS in game in the form of an unremovable, uninterruptable, permanent signet passive.
‘alright, isn’t that great’
Yeah, ok.
That’s right. It’s called balance. For instance, many classes have access to good regen and high protection up-time. Why should a warrior have no access to protection and inferior regen? You have to take everything into account when you balance, not just whether x skill is equal to y skill.
Yeah about that balance. Regen is removable. Protection is removable. Lots of classes have access to boon stripping.
Please, list the “many classes” who have “high protection uptime”. Then we can talk about this point further, but I guarantee the 1-2 classes you’re actually talking about have to make sacrifices for that high uptime. Low dps weapon sets, trait investment, boon duration increases, etc.
There is no counter to signet passives. Can’t be removed, never expires. Furthermore, warriors need to make literally zero sacrifices or trait investments or tradeoffs. Throw signet on bar, gain highest HPS from a healing skill in the game.
It’s called balance. Healing signet currently isn’t. Utterly broken.
Having Healing Signet actually really blows when you get poisoned.
Or bursted.
Moa is THE WORST. Come out of it super low and no way to heal back up but to LOS and block long enough for some regen to work.
I’m going to go celebrate this thread by killing a ton of people with M/Sh GS…and I wasn’t even using the build anymore until these threads. Now I just want more tears.
My Mesmer build makes this build look like utter kitten … 30 30 10 mantras .. Blink clones with rock dog a warrior has no chance in hell to hit me with skull crack and guess if he does I have blink or decoy and stability from mantra lol while my clones destroy the kitten out of him
Yeah, we’re all aware of how easy it is to be a mesmer mang.
I barely play it and I’ve never lost a 1v1. Just spam phantasms and run around, blink/invul/stealth/etc if someone touches you. Repeat phant spam.
