Guild Wars 2

rogerwilko.6895:

Forestnator.6298:

c) that day a thief kills me 1vs1 I will deinstall this game because I ’ve to accept I suck. Engineers can not lose against thiefs – to much counters – offensive and defensive.

oh ok.

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.
- supply crate -> slow cast animation -> dodge out of the way and don`t fight there; I can wait while invi.
- elixir engie? -> heal that can be interrupted
- pistol/pistol? -> immobilize blob is slow moving and can be dodged
-> flame jet thing -> 80% of times it won`t burn me, since I`m always behind or flanking the engie.
-> poison volley? -> same as the flame atk
- FT engie? -> free kill
- bomb engie? -> watch for the big bomb
-> easiest one to flank
- elixir gun? -> easy to flank, low damage since he uses DoTs
- ST build? -> glass, won`t have to bother with anything else since he will drop from the first burst
- P/S ? -> could take a while to kill if he uses bombs too, but once his defensive CDs are spent, easy to wait for the best moment.

Just a few conclusions. As for the engie actually Killing the thief, that`s even shorter:
– condi engie build? -> stealth + heal + cleanse whenever I want
– the win does not seam to be easy -> stealth wait for the proper moment
– engage? -> yes -> nuke fast, then stealth and watch him panic and run in circles
All a good thief needs is Patience, and the knowledge of the Engie prof.
In my opinion.
– engage? -> yes but later -> fake nuke -> fake run -> stealth -> watch him spend his cooldowns ->decide how next to engage
– emgage? -> no. stealth, pick another target.
– engie got me low! I will die!? -> steath if I can, then the rest is easy.

Pretty funny. You must spend a lot of time ganking really bad Engis. It’s OK, I do the same thing on my Thief especially since I main Engi.

You’re pretty off with your stuff too. One example is talking about bombs and only mentioning Big ol Bomb. Lol the least of your worries….a good Engi isn’t going to sit there and let you mess with them, especially if they have bombs. They will stealth when you stealth and then open up on you first. I do it to thieves every day.

Funny too how you mention how easy the Elixir H heal is to interrupt but fail to mention how hilariously easy it is to interrupt a Thief casting Hide in the Shadows – the heal that cleanses.

I could probably tear apart the entire thing but that would take a while.

This is funny. I get a lot of hate messages because people want to kill me but dat greatsword mobility!

On a serous note, Warriors play on the outside looking for opportunities because they have to….if you don’t like it ask Anet to stop holding back the Warrior sustain buffs and get on it.

Roe.3679:

Lupanic.6502:

Rozbuska.5263:

I play this after patch: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pyaH5y3F17IxIFde0hUUY7L6h+tsjB-TkAA1CtIMSZkzIjRSjsGNAB I dont met necro what can beat me:-)

You have one condition removal and you did not met a necro that beat you?

He’s also immune to conditions at 25% health. It’s a pretty hard counter to condi classes in general.

The trait actually doesn’t work very well without some removal. It doesn’t get rid of any conditions on you already and Necros put on very long duration conditions. You’d basically have to get lucky and all the Necros conditions happen to end just as your immunity at 25% kicked in. Very unlikely. Especially vs a good Necro who knows about this trait and will make sure to put some nice 12+ second duration conditions on you just before it would kick in.

dovrak.4376:

Xom.9264:

Eng and Wars built for control match up very well vs necros, exploit the classes weakness of no stun breaks and stability.

Actually necros have both stun breaks and stability.. this is engis weakness since last patch actually, and why lot of people dropped elix R.
Skills like well of power (similar to elixir c, plus stun breaker) and spectral walk, break stuns. Not to mention DS stability from 30 in soul reaping, which is not even necessary imo having such utilities.
Probably the only way to easily taking him down, is zerging him, like one class (warrior) using full cc utilities, and another one bursting him.. agree whit that one :P

Most Necro will have 1 stun break and no stability.

The only real stability Necro’s have access to is a Grandmaster trait in Soul Reaping, and they would have to give up +50% crit in DS for it… or a 1 second Stability on a well – like our awesome 1 second stability on a tool belt.

So yes, Necro’s have basically no stability and are very weak to being CC’d a lot – just like us.

Elixir S, dodge as soon as over, heal, drop supply crate, kitten face. The end.

I’ll add this here as well. I think more than even the conditions themselves being an issue right now is lack of proper counter play in avoiding them to begin with.

Lets face it – traited Necro marks are kitten near impossible to use any skill to counter. They are unblockable – no blocking when you see the Necro go staff and start throwing crap under your feet. Monstrous area covered – easy to hit lots of enemies at once as well as requiring basically no aim whatsoever to land on anyone. Apply very long conditions – on top of how easy it is to land these, they apply very long conditions.

Necro marks need a short delay on them before activating, similar to how Engineer bombs require a fuse before they explode. You need a chance to dodge for counter play. Your chance at dodging currently is just running around and dodging every time the Necro waves his arm – hope you don’t waste a dodge on a couple bleeds only to be hit with poison, chill and fear immediately after!

Brings me to the next point.

Lack of skill animations for Necro marks and Engineer bombs.

AOE conditions are POWERFUL. Its absolutely silly that there is absolutely no way to tell which thing you’re going to be dodging.

Which mark is that Necro mark? Is it going to bleed me, or maybe give me a long poison and chill, or is it going to Fear me?! Hmm well I only have so many dodges, I should probably decide which of those are most important to dodge and have the ability to do so.

Anyone have any idea how to tell? All look the same to me.

Engineer bombs are no better, but at least they have the kitten activation delay already so you can dodge away from them.

But is that just an auto attack bomb, or will it blow up and give me 5 stacks of confusion? I should probably know so I can dodge the correct one.

(I’ve mained Engi since beta and I’ve always thought it was silly all the bombs looked the same – now its clear AOE condi is becoming an issue and this could definitely help…and in a way that rewards skill not just nerfs condis)

I really think some stuff like this needs to be addressed, before going forward with reducing condition damage overall, etc.

I also think that Necro Staff skills and Engineer Bomb skills need separate animations.

There is basically no way at all to tell what you’re going to be dodging. All Engi bombs look the same when placed except BoB.

All Necro staff skill animations look basically the same as well, just a wave of the arm.

Well which one is the Fear mark?! I want to dodge THAT one!

Which bomb is going to give me 5 stacks of confusion? I want to dodge THAT one!

Adian.8756:

@ Velron

I guess that was worded somewhat incorrectly. Engi was merely mentioned as they are AoE Condition heavy. I’ve got an 80 Engi for WvW, so I’m fully aware of their skills and changes.

Also, 5 points into Firearms, and you’ve got yourself a free Sigil of Earth. With my Toolkit specced Engi, I can keep constant burning, bleed, poison and vulnerability on any enemy, even Guardians/Eles. Besides, Shrapnel applies bleeding for 12 seconds.

Yeah grenade kit is the only way to get really long bleeds that you can really stack up for our profession.

The AOE condi output is there for sure, I don’t think it really compared to traited Necro marks at all though. The ease of application (ie how easy is it to dodge a grenade throw vs a Necro mark placed directly under your feet) and durations. Necro marks just give way too much reward for basically no skill or risk. They are monstrous and apply very long conditions, unblockable.

Engi for AOE condi output mostly have Bombs or Grenades. Grenades are slow moving and arching – very easy to dodge unless right on top of you. Bombs are placed and have a short delay before they explode giving anyone ample time to dodge – unlike a Necro mark that explodes the moment placed beneath you.

I agree AOE condi spam is way out of control right now, my biased opinion is just thakittens much more due to Necros and their crazy marks than it is to Engineers.

I’ve been playing with full glass cannon Engi lately anyway though because I have felt that “this is too easy now” feeling while playing my condition build. I feel that’s due to the high skill ceiling of a kit heavy Engi though. Once you’ve got it down, you can really kick some kitten .

I added a suggestion in the suggestion forum a couple weeks back, not even asking for nerfs to Necro damage or any of that – but just a short maybe 1second activation time for the marks. Similar to the way an Engineer bomb must have the 1second before it explodes and applies the condition.

Necro marks basically have no skillful counter play atm. The counter play is to dodge, run around and hope they miss I suppose

redslion.9675:

Fenrir.5493:

Cyhann.2609:

But, tell me one thing, how can you even block an attack you can’t see? o_O

Its called instinct, its called experience, its called sixth sense, believe it or not, but a person who has a lot of experience in battle can predict something like this.

The same way you know when a thief stealths you sense their backstab coming then you block.

It’s called: if you see the thief stealth, run the opposite direction, count to two-three nd raise the shield. You should be able to wait the thief out of stealth then, right?

You’re so clever! None of us ever thought about that!

Oh wait, no this is pretty much exactly what we do.

The problem is, just waiting out a stealth timer is MEANINGLESS.

I will explain. When the stealth timer just ends, there is no revealed debuff. So waiting out the stealth does nothing, all the thief has to do is immediately CnD or Smoke field+Leap again for instant restealth and now Backstab time with shield stance on CD.

More and stronger conditions? Then Engi is mentioned?

Engineers have not gotten any new conditions since launch. Just to clear that up.

We can apply bleed (VERY short durations except on lame nade kit), poison, burning, and confusion for damage conditions.

We did not receive torment or any new condition and have been fairly the same in regards to condi output since launch – in fact only nerfs have come our way in this regard. Lower durations, less frequent application, etc. (pistol bleed duration cut in half – its a whopping TWO seconds now, as well as the AOE bleed removed, burn on crit moved to 10s ICD, etc)

Depends on the Warrior and the build. The Mace/Shield and GS setup does very well at taking out Necromancers in my experience. Running -20% condi duration rune, Berserker Stance for 8s of condi immuninity, Sig of Stamina for a full condi cleanse, and Mending for -2 condi on the heal, Balanced Stance for stability….and packed full of a ridiculous amount of dazing and stuns into a lot of burst. It is a very effective Necro and Engi killer due to their lack of stability options.

Roe.3679:

I play a conditionmancer. Looking at your build I would keep a very long distance with grenades and do a lot of damage that way. If you see that they have burned through most of their marks (if you have weakness at long range, it’s a good sign that they used putrid mark on top of the poison field) then close in to between 600 and 900 range, especially if they are in death shroud. If they are in death shroud stay in that distance and that’s a good time to be on the offensive, but dodge a hand you see coming at you. Burn down their life force and they are in trouble. If you see a swarm of locusts coming at you if they are in scepter/dagger, dodge, as that is a condition transfer.

If you get closer than than 600, the fears get stronger and torment can get out on you. Marks and other gtaoe become easier to dodge at range if you keep moving.

Good suggestions on the ques to watch for on dodging.

However lobbing grenades at someone from 1200+ will not connect on anyone paying attention. That arching travel time is SO slow at that distance that you wont hit anyone good who isn’t afk.

You’re pretty screwed in a 1v1 vs a Conditionmancer as any Condition build. If they are good, you are not winning.

Best bet to beating them is CC and burst. Necros, like us, suck at dealing with being hard CC’d a lot due to very limited stability access. I have had a MUCH easier time dealing with Necros the past few days playing with SD burst builds…even though my condition removal is absolutely pitiful. If you kill it fast enough, it can’t condition stack you.

Likewise, running a burst build means you aren’t giving him ammunition to use against you. Necros can’t reflect your burst, but they can most definitely send all your conditions back to you fairly easily, with multiple abilities, one on a very short CD.

I agree with the OP. The map is awesome and I absolutely love how it forced shift away from just bunkers and AOE condi spam. It gave new options to outplay your opponent and honestly is just a ton of fun once you learn all the mechanics of the map. I love the jump pads and possibilities opened up by that for assaulting someone or sneak attacking them from above before dropping down to try to blast them on some glass and land an immobilize so they can’t get off.

It makes me laugh how the people who hate the map scream skill-less. Just makes me think they got owned by someone more skilled at working the map than them and now they are on the forum to QQ about it.

Know what else was cool about the map for me? When I got outplayed, I was never angry. It wasn’t like other maps where I would sit there thinking how ridiculously lame the AOE condition spam was (talk about SKILL-LESS lol) or anything else…instead I would usually have a smile on my face and a determination to go back and see if I could outplay the person and get them into one of the traps.

I had a hard time understanding the OP too…is it just 2 burst Necros? Is it condi burst or DD burst?

The Warrior build really messes up Necros regardless right now, the only difference would be I would say if everyone is strait up burst DD go with Endure Pain instead of Berserker Stance – if they are Condi burst you go with Berserker Stance

Xom.9264:

HolySoNg.5371:

We r 2 engi

There is your answer. Engineers can be immune to condition damage.

While this is true…the trait kicks in at 25% and it does not cleanse any of the SUPER long duration conditions already on you from the Necromancers.

Why do they get such long durations on their conditions, AOE conditions at that? Seems so silly. But Engis had their TWO second AOE bleed removed from their pistol. So OP, lawlz.

Necros are one of THE worst professions to fight as a condition build of any kind, so…

My suggestion to beating a 4 Necro team would be 4 Mace/Shield and GS Warriors with Sig of Stamina, Berserker Stance, Balanced Stance setup. Problem with this is you need people who are good Warriors and really know how to play it and land those CC’s.

Necros suck at dealing with being stunlocked by a Warrior. They also suck at dealing with CC+burst combos, so you can also try running your Engis as something like SD burst with Rifle instead of the more common condition setups.

The SD burst builds do very well at taking the Necros out in my experience so far. Some very short CD CC’s and a LOT of burst. Depending how these Necros are running you could potentially just one shot them at the start.

See what happens if both of your Engis go full glass cannon SD burst. My buddy and I run it and we can usually 1 shot anyone we target, a couple people is even better bc its someone for the SD to bounce between.

SD = Static Discharge.

HypnotoadProductions.3981:

Velron.3729:

HypnotoadProductions.3981:

Hmm, it was definetly a guardian, not a warrior.
And yeah he lept a lot, tried to dodge it but as soon as I dodged he just followed with a kick that stunned me anyway.

I have been playing a few more games and it seems like these guys are just the majority right now (Guardians that is). I think the best way here is just to run when they approach as they are pretty much impossible to kill due to so many stunlocks.

(Here’s a how the fight went usualy:
-> Leap -> Stunned -> Stunlock -> Dead
-> Leap -> Dodge -> Some Kick -> Stunlock -> Dead
-> Leap -> Dodge -> Some kick -> (50% dodge) -> Some swing -> Stunlock -> Dead

Looks like once they get you with one hit you’re toast. Also tried some blinds but one guy was even faster than I am. Even with sprint and rocket boots he all of a sudden appeared behind me again after a second or so.

Unless I can blind them for pretty much forever, which I doubt I can, there’s no way to get all his stunlocks out of the way.

I guess I have to log onto my Guardian, google the build and see exactly how unfair it is.

Your description of the encounter does NOT sound like a Guardian, they do not have ability to stunlock anyone that I am aware of.

First of all thank you for the answer,

and yes I’m 100% certain that it was a guardian, unless the icon lies of course. Which I doubt. I’m also not sure if there’s a new exploit as I’ve gone through all the skills and people seem to be using skills from other classes, which is odd.

And yes, he was using the hammer leap (which the guardian doesn’t have) as well as the kick from the Warrior. That being said he also (in 1vs1) made me burn blue and used Chains of Light (#3 Scepter on Guardian).

Stunningly this player wiped out one guy after another, even when we ganged him.
Oh and he never used “100 Blades”.

I guess I have to google a bit and see if there’s another exploit that let’s you get wrong skills. If I’m not mistaken they already had something similar with the Necro getting Thief skills on Dagger Dagger with some weird disconnect.

I’ll just mark this as solved due to a possible exploit and thank everybody for trying to solve my issue.

Wow….this sounds pretty crazy!

Combining the sustain and cleansing of a Guardian with the control of a Warrior….scary.

Here you go…this is where the basis for the popularity of the build is coming from. People adapting this to s/tPVP.

Watching the video will give you a great idea of how the playstyle for the build works and how it succeeds. From there you can better figure out how to fight against it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/2-Videos-Matale-8-WvWvW-1vX-and-Duels/first

HypnotoadProductions.3981:

Hmm, it was definetly a guardian, not a warrior.
And yeah he lept a lot, tried to dodge it but as soon as I dodged he just followed with a kick that stunned me anyway.

I have been playing a few more games and it seems like these guys are just the majority right now (Guardians that is). I think the best way here is just to run when they approach as they are pretty much impossible to kill due to so many stunlocks.

(Here’s a how the fight went usualy:
-> Leap -> Stunned -> Stunlock -> Dead
-> Leap -> Dodge -> Some Kick -> Stunlock -> Dead
-> Leap -> Dodge -> Some kick -> (50% dodge) -> Some swing -> Stunlock -> Dead

Looks like once they get you with one hit you’re toast. Also tried some blinds but one guy was even faster than I am. Even with sprint and rocket boots he all of a sudden appeared behind me again after a second or so.

Unless I can blind them for pretty much forever, which I doubt I can, there’s no way to get all his stunlocks out of the way.

I guess I have to log onto my Guardian, google the build and see exactly how unfair it is.

Your description of the encounter does NOT sound like a Guardian, they do not have ability to stunlock anyone that I am aware of.

Warrior however most certainly could leap/rush at you, daze/stun you then proceed to stunlock you, swap to GS then use 100Blades and burst you down. Its what I run on my Warrior and it is a VERY hard counter atm to Engineers and Necros – not much stability access for these 2.

The hit being landed on you is ’Skull Crack" the mace burst ability for Warrior.

The trick to beating the build is to remain calm, do not panic and hit your stun breaker on the first one or two stuns. Wait for the big one – as soon as he makes the switch to Greatsword. THIS is when you stunbreak and dodge. Now you better start CCing him and applying enough counter pressure.

Most of them run Mace/Shield (double block setup) with reflect on block. Be careful of the Mace raised animation and Shield raised animations that show when they are blocking – if you tool kit here is a good time to Magnet into Prybar then continue to CC and apply counter pressure.

Edit – I forgot to note. The Mace/Shield setup contains 1 daze – skill +3, 1 short stun – shield bash, and 1 monster stun (3-4seconds) on the mace burst ability. They will engage you and try to make you waste your stun breaker on the Shield Bash or the Daze (forgot skill name)….you MUST wait for the Skull Crack – and after Skull Crack he will go to GS to 100 Blades you.

And a GS Warrior with movement speed and mobile strikes (movement skills remove immob) is probably the most mobile thing in the game. That’s why you can’t get away. My warrior almost never dies because of this and almost no one gets away (except stealth of course).

Harrier.9380:

F2/F3 skills were suggested many times already, among with many other changes that would bring Warriors some diversity and viability in PvP.

Btw, you guys should check Warrior threads that are already there, add suggestions to the pool

Collection of Warrior brainstorm threads by Defektive.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Regarding-SOTG-Warriors/first

My own thread, with lots of ideas for Warrior changes (including F2/F3 skills) and nice discussion with other Warrior players.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Warrior-Redesign-Project/first

Keep in mind…multiple threads asking for the same thing on the top of the page is a good thing. Just keep them all bumped.

I only run the build in s/tPVP so I can’t customize my stats like you can in WvW/PVE.

In sPVP I prever Berserker for this build…for the Warrior in general I do not really like condition builds. The condition access is very limited, anyone with half decent removal is not going down to only 2 conditions (bleed and burn). Engineers, Necromancers are the condition kings because they apply a wide variety of conditions – making it kitten near impossible to cleanse or stay cleansed.

I feel like they made the new map to make the useless ults feel viable for a while lol. Rampage def works on Skyhammer haha

Really cool idea. I like it. The specifics could use tweaking of course, but the overall idea is really cool.

I toyed around with the max damage SD PVE build in some hotjoin…so funny.

That’s where you go 10/30/0/0/30 and take burn on crit + sitting duck + mod ammunition for max +% damage modifier on the target.

I’ve one shot a few people – from full HP.

This gives me an idea…def going to get on my Warrior later and put Kick on the bar.

Doing it on Engi is fun, but its expected…can’t wait to do it on Warrior lolz.

Engi’s biggest weakness is still and has always been no stability. Fear/daze/stun/knockdown until dead.

That Warrior Mace/Shield and GS build growing in popularity does great taking out Engi’s so far in my experience (as the Warrior). That lack of stability can’t handle all the Mace/Shield dazing and stuns.

Man people can’t really separate stuff. Just because I’m saying these mechanics are silly doesn’t mean I think warriors need nerfs or don’t already have harsher risk/reward than other professions. Sure this could be seen as a nerf to many, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be made up for elsewhere.

Personally I think a cool idea would be to make warrior burst skills immune to blind and unblockable.

Smite has something like a 30 minute lock out from being able to queue if you leave a match in progress – and the timer starts at the END of the match you would have been in. Its a solid enough deterrent I think, not too many leavers since its implementation in my experiences.

Without doing a complete build analysis…my initial reaction is to say if you are primarily going for point hold/defense you would be better with something like Melandru or Forge. Rune of the Guardian is cool, I tried it thinking it would be awesome…but its not all that great. You apply some pretty weak burning to people when they hit you – big deal. -condi duration or protection are going to help you point hold better.

BTW – I started a topic on both the Thief and Warrior issue in the SPVP forum.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Two-issues-I-think-holding-back-E-sport/first#post2372623

ProxyDamage.9826:

Binary Rain.4869:

Seeing how I might be one of the only thieves to view into the Warrior profession….

/wave
I’m a thief too.

Binary Rain.4869:

Let me try to put this in perspective for your class: would you want to lose all your adrenaline when your F1 ability is blocked?

It should. AND if we miss. Would work much better with cleansing ire AND open more doors for balancing around good, non-sloppy play.

That said you can reapply stealth in 3 seconds. Warriors need quite a bit longer to charge up adrenaline.

Binary Rain.4869:

Shield stance lasts 3 seconds, throwing it up should out last the stealth anyways, so thus no backstab unless they chain stealths.

You are pretty bad at stealthing if you only get 3 seconds out of it…

Ah someone else gets it. We SHOULD lose adrenaline the moment we try to use the burst skill. Cleansing Ire should cleanse right away and we should lose adrenaline regardless of if we connect.

Lol @ the censoring. The words I used. “what” and “its” the last letter of what combined with the second word made my post censored.

CALM DOWN THE FILTER PLZ

The f1 being immune to blind would be pretty cool and I don’t think it would be OP. It would make the skill feel more like whakittens supposed to be – the big kitten unleash attack. Hell it should probably be unblockable too.

Well, I didn’t think I had to clarify this specifically. But here goes…

These are just two things I see that have no place in a game striving for E-sports.

That in no ways tries to imply they are the only two problems.

All better now?

Lol with the hate.

So you think these mechanics make sense? They absolutely do not reward skillful play or punish poor play. I’m sorry you can’t see it.

Just because it’s not an issue for you personally doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist within the game.

Also, I didn’t want that to be the thread title – but my titles that directly mentioned the two issues were too long for the forum to accept and I want a-net to actually read it so I mentioned E-sports. I do believe these have no place in there if they want to go that route.

Now in regards to did I call Warriors OP? I think you can go re-read the post and find out for yourself. I never called them OP or insinuated it in any way. Warrior still need sPVP love, we know this….but this would actually buff more than hurt IMO. The change to the bars spending immediately upon activating your burst means we could get the cleanse at the beginning of our animation – instead of at the end only if it lands.

This is a big issues we Warrior’s have with Cleansing Ire currently – it feels like it should be better than it is bc with melee weapons, you don’t get the cleanse if you don’t connect, because if you don’t connect you don’t spend any adrenaline. Well we need to cleanse in order to connect usually.

Now with that first part out of the way, where I agree and see how strong that burn on crit traits are.

Strong condi remove professions can be literally impossible to bring down solo if you’re a full condi build. Even with all the burn on crit procs. Some guardians have so much removal it’s absolutely silly trying to bring one down without help.

Why do some of the professions have all the removal stacked so kitten them and easy to get? Necro just grabs consume, staff and dagger OH and they are not only set, but will kill you with your own condis. Guardians get tons of passive and active removal like no one else. Ranger – tons of passive removal and some 50% uptime condi removal field, etc

edit : the stacked so kitten on them is actually = stacked so kitten them.

The word h a r d is in itself censored? Out of control lol.

I have to agree.

Its sort of funny when the very first shot I shoot at an enemy, which is really just to make sure they have no aegis or w/e up before I use real skills, is 50% of the time a crit. Meaning 50% of my encounters with people, the first time I shoot them with just a basic auto attack bullet that they should NOT waste a dodge on…they get burned for at least 4s. Meaning they take at least 2940 dmg. That’s 4s of burn with 735 damage/s from the burn – a very average burn number for a condi build. I’ve had builds where they did almost 900 damage a tick.

It is still possible for an Engi to run weapon setups for extremely high uptime on burning. But at least here you have a bit more counter play. Blow torch can definitely be dodge, you can avoid the firefield, you can see the tool belt buff for FT go up on me, etc.

edit : the carebearness of the forum gets to me sometimes. I had to edit my post repeatedly to fix words that were edited for no reason.

Why was “basikittentle bullet” edited into some kitten stuff? C’mon, chill with the crazy censoring for the weak please anet.

Ok this has come up too many times now and I’m not sure if there’s a thread on it in this section yet or not but I believe if A-net wants E-sport out of their game these two must go.

1 – Thieves and spamming their stealth ability in stealth until it lands.

Currently a stealth thief has the option of spamming his stealth opener attack with no regard for whether the target is currently blocking/dodging/evading/etc. They remain stealth and are able to spam the attack over and over – for ZERO initiative cost – until it lands or the stealth timer ends.

If you want competitive play, a stealth attack on a blocking, dodging, etc player must reveal the Thief. He made his attempt, it missed, he should be punished and revealed for the mistake – not given 100% free chances to spam the skill until it lands.

2 – Warrior’s and not losing Adrenaline when they miss.

Currently a warrior with a full built adrenaline bar can go for whatever burst skill they want – if they miss, its blocked, person dodges, etc…once again there is almost zero punishment for missing – and likewise zero reward to the player who avoided the attack. All that happens is your burst skill goes on its 7-10s CD and then you use it again…or even better you can swap weapons and use that burst skill with full adrenaline.

This is actually causing side issues for the profession. The Longbow is gaining popularity mostly bc of its AOE dmg and reliable proccing of Cleansing Ire.

The only reason Cleansing Ire works so well with LB is bc it is the only Burst skill which actually dumps your adrenaline – hit or miss. If all burst were reworked to dump adrenaline on attempted use, then we could see cleansing ire cleansing before the burst skill actually swings/leaps at the target.

Basically I just feel that both of these mechanics are very hand-holding and do not reward skillful play in any way.

I’m sure many people will agree and many people will disagree. Before the rage – I play my Thief and my Warrior especially plenty and have lvl 80s of both professions.

While we are on this subject – if anyone can think of any other glaring hand-holding mechanics like this please feel free to point them out. These are the only two I can think of like this.

The same reason we can use a burst ability and NOT lose the adrenaline if it doesn’t connect? Which is the same reason Cleansing Ire doesn’t work as efficiently on the melee weapons. No hit = no bars spent.

They are hand-holding handicap mechanics that have no place in PVP for a game trying to go e-sport.

I wouldn’t expect a ton of balance changes for our profession. Necro will prob get some toning down, Warrior might get the sustain buffs they discussed on star of the game – but there were no Engi changes mentioned when Engi discussed – oh except they may revert the cast time on Elixir R.

Mace is kittenin boss in team fights. I land so many skull cracks, dazes and shield bashes in the middle of those hectic fights. My target always drops. No one lives through being cc shut down and focused by an outside source.

galandor.1059:

Jonwar.9205:

The situation with warriors isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s not good either.

Warriors suffer from a couple things, one being a skill cliff where anybody can kill a really bad player with a warrior but a competent player is a thousand times more difficult to beat with a warrior than any other class.

The trouble with warrior 1v1 wise isn’t so much that the Warrior can’t win 1v1. It’s the amount of mistakes that you can make vs the amount of mistakes that your opponent can make. You are more limited in your ability to disengage and your skills are on a much higher cooldown. This leads to a sort of “all or nothing” type situation for warriors. You can, despite what people say, build pretty decently for 1v1’s with a warrior, but you will find yourself without a role in a team if you do that (fortunately you’ll find that most people in a premade team are also going to build for teamfights, don’t feel bad if you have to run back to your bunker from a 1v1 build as he’ll most likely contribute far less to the fight on a point than you will).

In teamfights you can bring damage and deny rez. The latter is probably the biggest one, downing something means nothing if they don’t stay down. The only problem here is that you are extremely dependent on your bunker once you’ve moved into melee.

This comment is probably the best I have read on the Warrior in a while. I am not trying to say that the class isn’t without it’s flaws. CLEARLY, it is, but I don’t feel as I have seen many do on the board, that the class is completely useless and doesn’t have any viable builds, and no role in tPVP. In fact, I feel they have a very useful role in moving between points and helping bunkers defend those points, if coordinated with a bunker their attacks can just absolutely devastate people, not to mention they are incredible mobile and can be anywhere they need to be very quickly. In a 1v1 setting I do quite well against most things, of course there are times where I am just outmatched completely and there is simply nothing I can do about it but disengage, but for the most part, I hold my own and win the majority of my encounters. Overall I think the class could use some improvements, but aNet needs to be careful not to pull a Necromancer on the Warrior class and make them so OP that there is nothing running around but Warrior’s, and force the nerf hammer to come out and blow the class back into the oblivion from whence it came.

I agree with you on their strengths having been playing my Warrior more and more lately for a new challenge (Engi 90% of my playtime).

My Engi, with perma swiftness/vigor can not get around a map anywhere close to as fast as my Warrior can.

I see so many people talk about how we can’t disengage like others. WHA? If you have a Greatsword or a Sword in your build you can disengage like a mofo. I can’t tell you how many people have cursed me out bc I am constantly coming into fights and messing kitten up all the way until I get down to as low as 500hp, having endure pain up, doing a full cleanse of my conditions with one of my 2 full cleanses and then whirlwind + rush away only to return 15 seconds later with another 4s stun into 100b.

So far good Engineers have been the hardest for me, but I have also completely shut down quite a few and surprised the hell out of them. It’s much easier to counter what you main.

Necros are only really giving me issues when they come in out of nowhere and blast me with all their marks. What I do here is pop a full cleanse, whirl+rush, heal and then come at them with a plan and shut them down with constant daze, stun, block.

Riojin.2649:

What is the standard S/D build these days anyway? Is is full zerkers with rifle, medkit,tool, ram and rifle turret?

I posted the one shot/SD setup above…at least what is run in PVP lately.

Rifle, Med kit, Nade kit, tool kit, rifle turret.

Pull into grenade barrage + rifle turret TB is the big burst.

Lololol, dat damage!

Sounds like bad luck, I’ve had that skill crit plenty. Including 8.8k as my highest.

I would personally run Rune of the Hoelbrek over Melandru for this build.

Keep the + power, only 5% less -condi duration.

The current Engi 1 shot build is something like

30/x/x/x/30. Med kit, Nade kit, Tool kit, Rifle turret, Supply drop

The main burst combo is Magnet —> Grenade Barrage --> SD burst.

He prob chained that into Supply Crate + Rifl #5 if I were to guess. That should kill most people who aren’t bunker.

I think the Flamethrower is great…pretty much every skill but the auto attack gets used frequently by me. I just recorded a tourny match from tonight, I’ll be uploading it tomorrow…definitely shows how strong the FT skills are. I’ll try to remember to check this thread and add it if its wanted.

Yeah the build is great for dropping Engineers and Necros….funny since he says its weak against condition spammers.

I also question why, especially when – at least in my version, you have.

- 2 condi cleanse every 25 sec
-full cleanse every 45 sec
-full cleanse every 60 sec

JETWING.2759:

One more CC + 100b build.
Useless :/

Just one more free kill in PvP.

Made me laugh, since I’ve been absolutely wrecking with it. To each their own.

Man this game is sure full of kitten talkers.