Guild Wars 2

TPMN.1483:

A Bank almost full of eternitys – now if you could only see the details – you would see it is not wrong.

The funny thing is ANET has no way of knowing who it is or the ability to check ‘account’ value in this way. Its the third party sites which actually have better tools than ANET does.

It also doesnt take much effort to have lots of legendarys listed on the TP – remember whats in the bank/chars can be dwarfed by current sell rates on the TP.

I would not be shocked if there were many players with > 500K in listings on the TP right now (with a current value > 100K if it all sold).

The question is how much do you think is too much?

All listings on my main account have a value of 23.4k gold (at lowest listing value), which puts me in 9th place in that category on gw2efficiency with the leader at 63k gold.

gw2bltc calculates the actual value at what i listed all these items, which is 87.4k gold.

I doubt there are too many players with 500k in listings.

TPMN.1483:

Manasa Devi.7958:

How do powerful blood and charged lodestones generate gold?

These are the material swaps for gold.. they are just the swaps for X being made.
They are just a distribution of items for karma – for those getting pact supplies.

I would argue that gold generation X in actual liquid rewards has probably gone down.

But selling anything on the tp for gold doesnt create gold in a macroeconomic sense, it destroys it via fees and taxes. You might claim that it has become harder to target farm liquid gold or items to sell for every individual but that doesnt mean that less gold is entering the market. The gold faucet is just distributed more evenly now. While before 10 dungeon runners might have generated 90g overall in one hour in liquid gold and 90 more players generated 90g through regular gameplay (coins from monsters, event rewards, rank chests, champ bags etc.). Now dungeon rewards got nerfed and other gold faucets buffed and all 100 players get 1.8g per hour. Its still the same amount of gold coming into the economy.

MashMash.1645:

TPMN.1483:

The account is real – the account value can also have many sellable things such as NxEternity in storage.

We tried to tell ANET the legendary market was sown up by a few very rich individuals – you have just met one

They are active as well. It just went down by 20k

Thats just because items on that account lost a bit of value. His game time is still at 391 hours….

TPMN.1483:

This is the point :
Gold may be coming from fractals – but many players are starting to stop playing this due to the swamp mess monsters are booring.

Ascended mats are now dropping like crazy from raids (see raiders chest).

More gold is currently being earnt/HR swapping mats> TP (than doing skilled events after the Fracs). This has made the game go from a high skilled event game -> I can harvest and sell game (low skilled). Dungeons for all their faults still required some degree of skill and certainly required more skill than harvesting nodes.

If more players stop doing fractals through Bordem- will the mats being generated and gold(eg shiney baubles) be enough to stop a large deflationary pressure?

just because a couple of people start raiding wont mean we will run out of gold anytime soon. And Shiny Baubles are generated through map rewards, not fractals.

Only on different characters. Once you level a crafting profession on a character, you cant reset your progress anymore.

Ayrilana.1396:

The “official” one is in Malchors right now farming elder wood with people.

Just noticed her mastery level. Looks like the OP just found her representing another guild.

Looks like someone should tell her the difference between elder wood and mithril ore, then.

Jaymee.1560:

Of course I enjoy it, but I am beginning to find now… that usually around 11 PM… I start getting a headache, agitated and tired, but… I push to get it done because, if I say… cut the trek in half, only do 12 character post-reset and 12 for the next day, I often worry the risk of screwing up the timer of when the Flax refreshes for my next run.

Ugh, am I making any sense? I’m just wondering if 24 character hitting both patches should take 5 or 6 hours to do or am I just a slowpoke and punishing myself through the tiredness to get it done.

I think it would be easier to determine, if you calculate what sell value (lowest listing prices) all the mats have that you gather in your 5-6 hours and then calculate how much gold you make per hour.

TPMN.1483:

Hi All,

Okay – it has been a few months since HoT was released and the economy is stable – according to John Smith (AKA: GW2 Guru Economist from the Matrix)…

So a quick summary:
Liquid Gold income has been reduced from many sources including Dungeons (which may get raised). It is now harder to earn liquid gold – it is becoming a rarer commodity.

Gems -> Gold has been slowly going down (on average)- more $ required for liquid gold [small decrease]

Materials have increased in cost across many areas – due to a demand created for guild halls, legendary items which will taper off in the next year or so.

Potions have reached rock bottom as there is very few people running dungeons (due to gold nerfs). They become unprofitable to run in many cases on a gold/HR vs skill required ratio.

Prices should be falling of many goods – or at least stabilising (see – Precursors: many have fallen in value and will continue to do so: eg Zap which can be crafted for about 460g via MF – see www.gw2profits.com). The increase of exotic drops from raids and 300% MF across more players due to the Chinese New Year celebrations.

We are moving more toward a material barter system X worth Y compared to Z.
Materials are now worth more kitten many items are required for new legendarys moving forward. Materials farmed from dungeons such as dust, chocolate, butter – have all reduced in supply raising prices. There has been increased demand for T6 refined time gated materials: Elonion Leather, Damask, Spirit wood – which is now being supplied by Raids – prices will slowly fall of these as these items were stable for last few months.

It has become harder for players to earn gold recently unless they are swapping real $ for gold (hence gem rates slowly falling).

Scribing costs will be reduced / reworked in the near future .

Black lion skins are slowly reducing in cost – which is a good thing !

If the removal of liquid gold in the dungeons have been proven to not have that large effect on the economy as the rewards may be increased moving forward (AMA Reddit thread)- do you think we will return to an inflation on many items as players return to this format?

Generally it has been a success in maintaining prices of items within reasonable thresholds over the long term – John has been a genius – a true economic architect with carefully crafted price swings – moving gold into hands of a small % vs the majority.

This could be a major shake up to the economy moving forward – what do you think will happen if the (a) scribing costs reduce (b) increased liquid gold is put back into dungeons? © we have had much success reducing the amount of gold in the game?

Any thoughts where we might be heading next?

What are the other many sources that got liquid gold rewards nerfed, except dungeons?
And just because arguably the biggest gold faucet got nerfed doesnt mean that there is less gold coming in across the whole player base. It would be interesting to see, if the former dungeon rewards before HoT or the new shiny baubles pump in more gold into the economy.

I cant deny that more people seemed to have exchanged gems for gold but prior to HoT, plenty of people had a good stash of gems from the higher priced pre purchase deals. Those that purchased these bundles might have mostly been veterans, who already have plenty of account upgrades (bags, bank slots, permanent gizmos) unlocked, so they are more prone to spend their gems on gold rather than something else in the gem store.

The reason why it might seem like there is less gold in the economy and prices for many items are going up is because we are simply destroying it at a faster pace than before. In the 6-9 months before HoT, not much new content came out and people didnt consume as much goods and gold but since then, most players started consuming again, for guild halls, scribing, new legendary and ascended gear.
So i think the only macroeconomic change that has happened is that we were used to earn more mats and gold than we spent before HoT and now we spent more than we earn. I think the changes to the supply side didnt have as much of an impact as the changes to the demand side.

Bomber.3872:

0.0000000000000000001%

Its actually closer to 0.1% with rares but who is counting….

TPMN.1483:

I have personally quite a bit of random gold tied up at stupid low levels – just didn’t bother cancelling orders (often as the tp was broken).

I doubt that if you couldnt be bothered to cancel those buy orders all these years, the amount of gold wont have any meaningful impact on the economy.

Those old buy orders were left untouched not for game economic reasons but for real oconomic reasons. Until now, they said that it just takes too much time and man hours to cancel all these, so they left them.

SkyShroud.2865:

Aarean.5398:

http://fortune.com/2015/11/24/areanet-investing-in-esports/
Right at the bottom of the article you will get your answer. And this is approaching 4 -5 months ago.

but that number is questionable
due to multi account holders, bots and also f2p users who create an account then quit after playing a few days or a week.

i hope we can know the average online count so we can have a better understanding where gw2 is standing at now

If you want to see the in game population, log in and see for yourself. Whatever numbers Anet would release, has little influence to your personal perceiption of the population.

General Health.9678:

AH/TP – same difference to me, the mechanics may be different but the end result is the same, there is a cartel and it is wealthy enough to buy everything as it has been playing the economic mini-game whilst everyone else was playing the actual game.

I am being devils advocate here, I myself don’t believe the market is a separatable mini-game or that you are hurting any other part of the game with trading activity.

All the supply listed on the tp is for sale, thats why players put it up there. So if someone doesnt want to sell something, he shouldnt list it on the tp. These cartels cant buy whatever exists outside the tp. All you are advocating is that you dont want some players to buy stuff from other players. It doesnt influence your game experience in any way, wether 10k individual players buy 1 million, 100 each, of an item from the tp or a single player.

Mosferre.1246:

So reading through this, I know that RNG is applied to the Account – but does that mean that the Bell Curve/outlier/etc are all tied to that one account – so if it’s an outlier account – all characters would have the same favourable luck?

Or is it the Character that become the outlier?

Sorry for newbi question – as it seems I have one character that is luckier than the others, but that might just be me being superstitious

Outlier accounts are created through rng and can become lucky accounts through rng.

One account can get 5 precursors from the forge from the first 100 weapons he throws in and another one can not receive a single pre from 10000 weapons thrown in. However, the chance to get a precursor from the next forge attempt was, is and will always be the same for both accounts and all characters on it.

General Health.9678:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The Trading Post is so dynamic, that it’s been proven next to impossible for any one person or group of people to effectively manipulate anything.

I’ve seen this said in every game I’ve ever played and then someone reveals that actually they were part of a cartel doing just this thing and that they’ve accumulated enough money to be able to buy the whole auction house.

Next to impossible is meaningless.
Proving something to be next to impossible is therefore even less meaningful.

good thing then that gw2 doesnt have an auction house

TexZero.7910:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

TexZero.7910:

Wanze.8410:

DeWolfe.2174:

I know I’ll get barked at by the TP hounds but, JS should have had mechanisms in place to curtail high volume trading from launch. Just having a storage capacity limit on the TP would have been enough. Forcing a player to take physical ownership of items purchased would have limited high volume trading.

Whats wrong with high volume trading?

I don’t know i thought you were playing a game, not some stock exchange simulator….

That’s what wrong with high volume trading in a nutshell.

I must be confused… the TP is not part of the game?

Maybe a high volume PvP game limiter too? Automatically logs you out and prevents you from playing another PvP match if you do too many in a row?

Or a HoT map limiter. Your health steadily decreases the longer you play PvE until you just die over and over and over. Only way to reset it is to log out for 6 hours?

I’m sorry i personally don’t consider playing the trading post as part of the game.

It’s a feature meant to facilitate the trades of goods. It’s not there for a select few people manipulate to the point the market destabilizes for normal consumption.

If you honestly find fun in the trading post and manipulating it, no one can stop you but honestly you may want to find another hobby.

In this particular example, no market was destabilized, so i wonder why you would want limit it. All that happened is that plenty of people sold their leather for the price they asked a couple of weeks before normal consumption would have triggered their sale.

DeWolfe.2174:

I know I’ll get barked at by the TP hounds but, JS should have had mechanisms in place to curtail high volume trading from launch. Just having a storage capacity limit on the TP would have been enough. Forcing a player to take physical ownership of items purchased would have limited high volume trading.

Whats wrong with high volume trading?

shinjin.3924:

From where u get this info?

The internet.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-playerbase/first#post6016652

laokoko.7403:

probably doesn’t matter as long as you have an autoclick mouse.

that is if you don’t mind breaking the rule.

but you can only sell whats in your bags, so you can just sell 160 stacks max, while having an autoclicker set up.

TPMN.1483:

Yup- it’s possible to buy quickly….
Now the interesting thing is how long would it take to relist them?

The ‘you have listed too many’ is a fun story…
Any math on how long it would take to sell2.5 Million ?

Or a Million?

At 10 sales per minute it would be 1000 minutes, so 16 hours and 40 min.

And 4 hours and 10 minutes, if you refine them first.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Rarely are these the workings of a single person. I don’t actually think it is possible for a single person to buy 2.5 million leather in 2 hours. I don’t think the TP loads fast enough.

As long as there is enough supply listed at the same value and you dont have to adjust it, its definately possible with the right ping and binding your left click to mouse wheel or using an autoclicker.

After your first transaction, when the green screen with OK and CLOSE comes up, you can actually get lots of insta-buys in between hitting ok and then hitting buy instantly, which is at the same spot as the ok button, before the green screen comes up again.

I just made a trial with recipes for sigils of cleansing, which have plenty of supply at 2c. As i didnt want to buy thousands of recipes, i made instabuys for 1 each, while clicking away with left click bound to mouse wheel inbetween green screens. I saw the green purchase confirmation only 3 times, yet i bought 200+ sigils and it took not more than 10 seconds. 200 stacks are 50k items. It definately creates some lag, so lets say you need a minute instead of 10 seconds. But even at that pace, it would only take 50 min to buy 2.5m items/10k stacks.

Behellagh.1468:

Well this was true 8 hours ago. It’s back down to 35-37g.

wow, 35g

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I consider TP manipulation is the case of the Recipe: Light of Dwayna. The price for that had been in the range of 15-20 gold from Dec 2013 to Dec 2014. On Dec 19 2014 it had a supply of ~553 and a price of ~11 gold. Over the next 2 weeks the supply was steadily bought up till it dropped to about 60. The prices from that point increased over time to up to a max of 447 gold and have currently only dropped down to ~95 gold. Over a year later, prices and supply have never gone back to their original levels.

One or more people made a lot of gold by buying up supply and reselling for the new, higher prices.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/49480-recipe-light-of-dwayna?full=1

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place.

By the definition posted before, any interaction with the tp is a manipulation. ITs perfectly fine, if people buy listings on the tp, it doesnt matter for what value or in which volume, as long as buyer and seller agree on a price. The only malicious manipulation on the tp or the economy are insider trades, exploiting, botting and RMTs/ account hackers.

I think botting is quite under control and exploits are usually handled with a ban retroactively, even though they might do some damage to some markets. The worst offender are account hackers.
The amount of gold and mats duplicated through account restorations should have the biggest unintended impact on the economy.

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place

No, I don’t think you can argue that because it’s supply and demand that determine price. Price was set at demand and 500plus supply. By buying up supply down to 60 items, it’s now demand and new lower TP supply = higher price. By buying up and holding on to the surplus of an item with limited, fixed supply and re-releasing it slowly so as not to flood the market at the new higher prices, then that’s manipulation to make the prices higher by artificially limiting supply.

But how do you determine, if the 500 supply on the tp was all the supply left in the game?

And the end result would be the same, wether someone bought out the 500 supply and sold them for 100g each over the next year or those 500 listings stayed on the tp and got bought by consumers over the next year. Once the supply is consumed, the price is 100g. And if that guy finds 500 people to buy his stock at 100g, i think its hard to argue that the listings prior to the buy out werent undervalued.

IF i would craft an item that costs 100g in mats 500 times and list all of them between 15-20g and then someone buys out all of them because he thinks they are listed under value, is it me or him manipulating the market?

Obviously no one thinks that the current supply in the TP is all there is. But someone can look at an item and see where new supply comes from and get a good idea if it’s an item with high, low, medium or no new incoming supply.

This item was a good risk for someone who wanted to corner a market as best he could and buy low and sell high. And he succeeded. That’s manipulation. If no one had done that and the the prices rose over time as supply dropped, that’s not manipulation because no one actively tried to get those prices higher.

And that’s the crux of this case. One or more people actively bought up the available TP supply of an item with low incoming supply and by those actions artificially increased the prices so that they could resell the items they bought at the new higher prices.

The crux of this case is that they thought that the item was undervalued at current prices and people are willing to pay more for it, while having no personal influence or knowledge about the supply outside the tp and wether new supply will be added to the market with a future update.

Yes, like I said. It was a risk. But he/they judged it was a good risk to buy up an item with limited supply and by those actions increase the price by removing and holding on to “excess” supply, so that prices quickly rose from approximately 15 gold to a max of over 400 gold. It’s manipulation when that happens as it’s keeping prices artificially high by limiting supply. They took the risk and won.

As too saying the lower prices were undervalued, you can say that about any price as all prices rise as supply decreases but demand doesn’t substantially decrease. The 400 gold price could be argued as undervalued as it would go up if supply went lower. Since all prices can be consider undervalued when compared to the prices they could be if supply was lower, that’s not a good argument. Not on an mmo where gold is not needed for survival and prices have no real upper limit.

I guess my main question is, if you think that this is something that Anet should control because it damages the overall health of the game or not. And if so, should they update (micromanage) faucets more regularly or restrict the tp in any way to make these kinds of buy outs/manipulation impossible?

TPMN.1483:

With items such as recipe of lyssa / dwayna / grenth – (these luxury items) lets take this example and compare it to real life items.

AUG 15, 2014
A 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO became the most valuable car in the world selling for $38 million at the Bonham’s Auction in Carmel, California on Thursday. But the gavel price disappointed the Ferrari cognoscenti, who predicted that the car might bring as much as $60 million.

The Car was purchased for much less in 1962.

In theory it is impossible to compare speculation on luxury items compared to ordinary bulk commodities.

Yeah, i think we basically went back to discussing semantics again, me included. Usually, if someone uses the word manipulation on this forum, it sounds to me as if the user thinks whatever he is using that word for, is something to be concerned about.

If we check the OP, Milkshake didnt use that term and quite neutrally asked for other opinions on the buy out.

Personally, its a buy out i wouldnt do but i wont say right now that whoever did it, wont make any profit off it. I just wouldnt do it because i wouldnt put so much gold into one commodity that already is traded in a high volume (i would spend it on a high supply item with no demand atm). And then there is the small problem with relisting those 2.5m sections. You could refine them into squares, so you end up with 2500 stacks of those. But will you be able to list and sell them all during a potential short term spike? Hardly. In order to profit, the buyer needs a long term increase in price, which wouldnt be too much of a surprise, if you check the graphs for sections and squares.

Since the start of the year, squares went from 600k to under 50k listed and sections from 7.25m to 2.75m, while their prices more than doubled.

So unless Anet changes something in the next 8 weeks, i wouldnt bet against its price doubling again or at least go up at the same rate, so it would be 50%.

I checked daily trade volume on gw2bltc (which probably isnt accurate) and it suggests that around 40k squares and 190k sections have been traded on a daily basis, so 350k sections in total. Which means that whoever bought it out holds around a weeks worth of demand, which means it will take several more weeks (data suggests 4-5 weeks) to dump his supply on the tp, if he doesnt want to decrease prices again and just brings the supply/demand into equilibrium.

Writing this post made me realize that this buy out is smarter than i thought.
The buyer identified a supply wall (75-90% of total supply listed at lowest listing value*1.3 – I posted a screenshot about true listing volume (value listed in a range of 130% of the lowest listing) from gw2bltc, data not everybody might have access to because i think i have special filter unlocks for that site, in the gw2economy subreddit).

He then checked the past trading history and realized that supply has been rapidly dwindling since the start of the year and realized that this trend might continue for the next couple of weeks or months.

In the past, Anet was rather slow in reacting to rebalance common mats in my opinion, quartz took way longer than i expected, last year and i doubt that they will make mayor economical changes before the quarterly update mid April, they tend to ship those in bulk. Thats still 7 weeks away and there is a possibility that t5 leather might gain another 50-100% in value in that time, depending on updates Anet releases in the meantime. I doubt that demand will diminish in that time and supply will go either way. It will depend on where the masses will play. Obviously, the HoT zones and other lvl 80 maps are the biggest faucets for t5 leather, any update that will lead the player base away from those maps (pvp league) will mean less supply generated, if there are updates in those zones, we will get more.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I consider TP manipulation is the case of the Recipe: Light of Dwayna. The price for that had been in the range of 15-20 gold from Dec 2013 to Dec 2014. On Dec 19 2014 it had a supply of ~553 and a price of ~11 gold. Over the next 2 weeks the supply was steadily bought up till it dropped to about 60. The prices from that point increased over time to up to a max of 447 gold and have currently only dropped down to ~95 gold. Over a year later, prices and supply have never gone back to their original levels.

One or more people made a lot of gold by buying up supply and reselling for the new, higher prices.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/49480-recipe-light-of-dwayna?full=1

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place.

By the definition posted before, any interaction with the tp is a manipulation. ITs perfectly fine, if people buy listings on the tp, it doesnt matter for what value or in which volume, as long as buyer and seller agree on a price. The only malicious manipulation on the tp or the economy are insider trades, exploiting, botting and RMTs/ account hackers.

I think botting is quite under control and exploits are usually handled with a ban retroactively, even though they might do some damage to some markets. The worst offender are account hackers.
The amount of gold and mats duplicated through account restorations should have the biggest unintended impact on the economy.

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place

No, I don’t think you can argue that because it’s supply and demand that determine price. Price was set at demand and 500plus supply. By buying up supply down to 60 items, it’s now demand and new lower TP supply = higher price. By buying up and holding on to the surplus of an item with limited, fixed supply and re-releasing it slowly so as not to flood the market at the new higher prices, then that’s manipulation to make the prices higher by artificially limiting supply.

But how do you determine, if the 500 supply on the tp was all the supply left in the game?

And the end result would be the same, wether someone bought out the 500 supply and sold them for 100g each over the next year or those 500 listings stayed on the tp and got bought by consumers over the next year. Once the supply is consumed, the price is 100g. And if that guy finds 500 people to buy his stock at 100g, i think its hard to argue that the listings prior to the buy out werent undervalued.

IF i would craft an item that costs 100g in mats 500 times and list all of them between 15-20g and then someone buys out all of them because he thinks they are listed under value, is it me or him manipulating the market?

Obviously no one thinks that the current supply in the TP is all there is. But someone can look at an item and see where new supply comes from and get a good idea if it’s an item with high, low, medium or no new incoming supply.

This item was a good risk for someone who wanted to corner a market as best he could and buy low and sell high. And he succeeded. That’s manipulation. If no one had done that and the the prices rose over time as supply dropped, that’s not manipulation because no one actively tried to get those prices higher.

And that’s the crux of this case. One or more people actively bought up the available TP supply of an item with low incoming supply and by those actions artificially increased the prices so that they could resell the items they bought at the new higher prices.

The crux of this case is that they thought that the item was undervalued at current prices and people are willing to pay more for it, while having no personal influence or knowledge about the supply outside the tp and wether new supply will be added to the market with a future update.

OR maybe someone just bought out those sections to refine them while going on a week long holiday and then sell them with a couple of copper profit once he is back.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I consider TP manipulation is the case of the Recipe: Light of Dwayna. The price for that had been in the range of 15-20 gold from Dec 2013 to Dec 2014. On Dec 19 2014 it had a supply of ~553 and a price of ~11 gold. Over the next 2 weeks the supply was steadily bought up till it dropped to about 60. The prices from that point increased over time to up to a max of 447 gold and have currently only dropped down to ~95 gold. Over a year later, prices and supply have never gone back to their original levels.

One or more people made a lot of gold by buying up supply and reselling for the new, higher prices.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/49480-recipe-light-of-dwayna?full=1

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place.

By the definition posted before, any interaction with the tp is a manipulation. ITs perfectly fine, if people buy listings on the tp, it doesnt matter for what value or in which volume, as long as buyer and seller agree on a price. The only malicious manipulation on the tp or the economy are insider trades, exploiting, botting and RMTs/ account hackers.

I think botting is quite under control and exploits are usually handled with a ban retroactively, even though they might do some damage to some markets. The worst offender are account hackers.
The amount of gold and mats duplicated through account restorations should have the biggest unintended impact on the economy.

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place

No, I don’t think you can argue that because it’s supply and demand that determine price. Price was set at demand and 500plus supply. By buying up supply down to 60 items, it’s now demand and new lower TP supply = higher price. By buying up and holding on to the surplus of an item with limited, fixed supply and re-releasing it slowly so as not to flood the market at the new higher prices, then that’s manipulation to make the prices higher by artificially limiting supply.

But how do you determine, if the 500 supply on the tp was all the supply left in the game?

And the end result would be the same, wether someone bought out the 500 supply and sold them for 100g each over the next year or those 500 listings stayed on the tp and got bought by consumers over the next year. Once the supply is consumed, the price is 100g. And if that guy finds 500 people to buy his stock at 100g, i think its hard to argue that the listings prior to the buy out werent undervalued.

IF i would craft an item that costs 100g in mats 500 times and list all of them between 15-20g and then someone buys out all of them because he thinks they are listed under value, is it me or him manipulating the market?

Ayrilana.1396:

Manipulation – Cornering the Market
Manipulation – Pump and Dump

Speculation

Looks like cornering markets nearly never is successful and pump and dump isnt illegal.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I consider TP manipulation is the case of the Recipe: Light of Dwayna. The price for that had been in the range of 15-20 gold from Dec 2013 to Dec 2014. On Dec 19 2014 it had a supply of ~553 and a price of ~11 gold. Over the next 2 weeks the supply was steadily bought up till it dropped to about 60. The prices from that point increased over time to up to a max of 447 gold and have currently only dropped down to ~95 gold. Over a year later, prices and supply have never gone back to their original levels.

One or more people made a lot of gold by buying up supply and reselling for the new, higher prices.

https://www.gw2tp.com/item/49480-recipe-light-of-dwayna?full=1

In that case you could argue that all the supply listed at 15-20g was undervalued on the tp in the first place.

By the definition posted before, any interaction with the tp is a manipulation. ITs perfectly fine, if people buy listings on the tp, it doesnt matter for what value or in which volume, as long as buyer and seller agree on a price. The only malicious manipulation on the tp or the economy are insider trades, exploiting, botting and RMTs/ account hackers.

I think botting is quite under control and exploits are usually handled with a ban retroactively, even though they might do some damage to some markets. The worst offender are account hackers.
The amount of gold and mats duplicated through account restorations should have the biggest unintended impact on the economy.

laokoko.7403:

I don’t even know the difference between manipulation or speculation.

It’s like saying aggressive investing is good or evil.

I guess manipulation is something players think shouldnt happen.

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

TexZero.7910:

Ayrilana.1396:

Blatant manipulation? Care to explain how it’s manipulation? How does the manipulator benefit from this?

Removing well over 90% of the supply in under 2 hours is the most blatant form of market manipulation there possibly could be.

How do they benefit ?

Simple the market wait for the price to increase as the sudden shortage will create that to happen then slowly drip parts of the supply onto the market and overtime increase your profit.

I must be on some other planet right now if it’s not painfully clear that the market was manipulated.

That’s not manipulation.

Okay so what do you call 90% of the market supply going away with no rational ?

Okay so it’s now speculation, wait hold on lets examine how speculation (flipping) is in part manipulation.

You create a false scarcity ….. manipulating the amount available. You then take your stock and slowly re-add it to the marketplace at a slight increase (flipping) or you hold onto it for a larger profit (speculating). It all starts with manipulating.

Done here.

But it seems he only created scarcity for players who intended to buy more than the 300k leather sections that are available atm. For those that need less tha n300k leather per day, there still is enough supply to go around. So its no manipulation, just speculation.

Khisanth.2948:

Replace those ugly wings with a fluffy ram(with wiggling arms and legs!) and all your problems will be solved.

Except the Ram´s problems.

DIpABzOLIC.7520:

but seriously tho… where the hell are the new legendaries?!? werent we promised 20? we have 3. i need a new dagger!

Dagger will be last batch…

That Guy.5704:

could you imagine the outrage if fulgarite was tradeable, but a daily timegate?

Actually, fulgurite was tradeable for the first 10 days of HoT. I bought 2 stacks for 300g each for future use because i couldnt see myself farming the sparks.

Astralporing.1957:

Bomber.3872:

Probably it’s one of John Smiths ideas to raise mystic coin price. Sadly for most players exactly this is happening…

One more proof that when you are thinking about keeping economy healthy, but only look at the big picture, it isn’t always healthy for the players.

This is only bad news to players who care about looks, as nearly all recipes for mystic coins are for cosmetic items.

Other MMOs complained that there were too much parties going on in GW2.

Imagine the price of mystic coins right now, if they would have introduced the whole sets of new legendary weapons, armor and backpacks with HoT Launch.

Guilds that violate naming policies get deleted, not changed

Creepy Pony ftw

Zaron.1987:

I thought it was an New item and was wrong

But i said this long ago (6.post in this thread)

look here

Btw for an instance, creating a recipe wich require 250 back access, to create the permanent one, would be worth like 6250 gems. Like 1300g ( 2300 g less than tp ).

It would be great to craft it ( also, it will avoid speculation ).

E.g

This!

And sorry for cunfusion.

And here

Zaron.1987:

Oh OK.

But pls pls anet reintroduce such thing as you have done with mystic forge circuit

Price is much too high

Next time first read Mr Wanze

Everyone can make mistakes

But you fail hat der in my opinion[/quote]

As you mentioned, recently Anet did a great job of reintroducing permanent gizmos in game and i prefer if they do it as such again.

The first example was the Ecto Gambler, which reintroduced the Mystic Forge Conduit even though that involved quite a bit of gold gambling, which im not a fan of.

But during Halloween last year, they also introduced permanent city portal scrolls, which work similar to the royal terrace and airship pass gem store items but instead of porting you to those locations, they port you to the 5 racial city hubs, LA or Ebonhawke.

They arent tradeable but the ingredients for the forge recipes are (city essences, mystic keystones and dust). Those ingedients came from combining halloween essences, which were available for candy corn cobs during the festival with 3 stacks of t5 leather squares in the mf.

So that was mostly a material sink (for candy corn and t5 leather) and didnt involve any gold.

That was a better implementation than the ecto gambler skritt but unfortunately it was only available temporarily, even though you can still buy the ingredients on the tp.

Historically, last years lunar new year event introduced one of the first containers based on “gambling”, as it awarded vendor trophies worth quite a bit of gold, so its average loot table value wasnt only determined by tradeable loot (which gets its value from supply and demand) but had a base value in gold from a vendor.

The lucky envelopes will see a mayor overhaul this year considering that some loot was zodiac themed (ram, male sheep) and the chinese year will change from sheep to monkey (yeah! apart from being a clown, i love to be a monkey, monkey clowns are OP though).

So maybe we get another convenience gizmo, like the mf conduit or portal scrolls frm it this year.

Shirlias.8104:

Wanze.8410:

The real question is: Why does OP not want the contract to be sold directly in the gem store?

Very suspicious, indeed. He is probably the market manipulator.

Just read the whole thread before act as a clown.

He said he would be ok to spend over 6k gems for items needed to craft it by mf.

I like to be clown because im rich.

Actually, i wouldnt mind if Anet releases it for a fixed price, either, but as already mentioned, this is the item you receive, if you double click the tradeable contract.

I dont think they will add it though. They are more likely to adjust its droprate from BLC Chests from 0.002% to 0,003% and offer a BL key sale.

Zaron.1987:

Wanze.8410:

The real question is: Why does OP not want the contract to be sold directly in the gem store?

Very suspicious, indeed. He is probably the market manipulator.

Try again Wanze

Zaron.1987:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Put four of any combination of the following into the forge to get the permanent bank express item:

copper fed salvage o matic
silver fed salvage o matic
royal terrace pass
air ship pass

There may be others, but instead of throwing them out or banking them forever, this would make me one very happy customer.

Nope

Why support The guys that have The luxury items in use since years now?

Just stuff that can all use and not The ones that Q.Q now cause of The now (!)
useless items They used for ages

Just sell it at gem store

I stand corrected, misread the OP as : please dont do it anet

The real question is: Why does OP not want the contract to be sold directly in the gem store?

Very suspicious, indeed. He is probably the market manipulator.

technophebe.7631:

If I’m reading the Wiki correctly, I think the (tradeable) contract item creates the (non-tradeable) OP’s item when double clicked?

That’s just a guess, don’t happen to have 3500g lying around to check it…

yep

nothing to see here, move along

Gaile Gray.6029:

Swagger.1459:

Gaile Gray.6029:

lioka qiao.8734:

save em for next year

Yes, that’s what I did. You can save in storage, put on an extra character, etc. I save mine from year to year.

Gaile, I think you should suggest to the team that we need a “purging” event (for good rewards and trade ins)… There are lots and lots and lots of things clogging up the BLTC..

Interesting idea! I had a Monty Python and the Holy Grail flash: Instead of “Bring out your dead” we have “Bring out your dead/useless/valueless items.”

We actually had those Zephyrites to trade in your useless stuff for shinies once a year but some storyteller crashed them in the jungle.

Where was it ever mentioned that you keep your footprints, if its not your active weapon?

They are rare weapons, not exotic.

Zefrost.3425:

Yeah, that’s something that I’m going to wonder (sarcasm). Or maybe you can change the stats on your exotic armor and weapons? Hell if I know!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodbound_weapons

You can change its stats and it even scales with your level.

Its only rare equipment though, not exotic.

I wasnt saying or doing anything.

shygirl fourfivetwo.3751:

Some back story on these: (1) You need 1 crystalline dust and any combo of 9 orbs such as beryl orbs, crests, and doubloons separated into 3’s in the mystic forge to make 1. (2) You have to have 250 of these amalgamated gemstones to make the crystalline ingots needed to finish the new Maguuma legendaries.
I don’t understand why these were necessary as an ingredient for crystalline ingots especially when it says on the item definition that it’s for polish for precursor crafting not legendary! Also as of tonight the price of them has gone up to 2g 25s and every orb, crest, and doubloon has gone up as well. When Anet said that they were looking at helping out the market for lower priced items, this is not what I was thinking they had in mind! I thought they would actually introduce something to help out the silver and gold markets not the orbs and crests which were already over the 5s a piece before the expansion. Now they are 17s to 18s each and they aren’t that easy to find since a drop is not guaranteed per farming a tier 5 or 6 ore or wood node. If we needed something jewelry related for crystalline ingots why not have used something silver or gold instead of amalgamated gemstones which require so much in themselves and costing over 450g for a full stack? So much for being able to craft a Maguuma legendary in a month like they said and cheap of them to use something already created from Silverwastes that was 1g before the expansion. Anet should have chosen a better option than amalgamated gemstones for their Maguuma legendaries which would have had a better outcome in the market than amalgamated gemstones that were already expensive.

TL/DR: Anet should have made something more expensive that i dont need, so i can sell it. Instead they made something more expensive that i need.

1700 gems per mount.

When used, it logs you out and uninstalls your game.

I would be cool with that.