Guild Wars 2

the amber wurm escort event. at the end of it there is a abomination you need to kill and stand inside its self destruct range to get a buff which makes the giant wurm want to eat you.

Urejt.5648:

I dont know man. Peasant plebseth seems to like powerfull condi war in pvp. Drazeh lso owning ppl as a war.

last i checked helseth kittening wrecked a warrior. the only class he couldnt beat was a engi. cuz op sustain. helseth and drazeh are both insane players. they can make any class good. this isnt saying warriors are bad. they are in a great spot atm imo. just really obvious any attack they do and easily dodged.

Seabreeze.8437:

How long will hardened leather continue to be absurdly expensive with no reliable means of gathering it?

Leiloni.7951:

Can we do something about leather drop rate? Ignoring the hoarders, I think all of us personally notice a huge difference in personal supply. Getting cloth, wood, and metal is extremely easy via regular farming. I get tons of all of those via natural play activities, but leather is extremely scarce. I don’t think the price is due to hoarders who are probably doing what you’ve encouraged them to do anyway. If the drop rate was increased to be on par with other materials, we wouldn’t have this problem. It needs to be more easily farmable.

^ This. After a complete Octovine loot run, I consider myself lucky if I scrap more than 2 hardened leather sections (not even enough for 1 square, by the way).

i farmed silverwastes for about 4 hours to get a stack of gear and purses and 100 heirloom pouches. opened them all and got 25 hardened leather sections. thats a kittenton of work for that little hardened leather.

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

gaurdian can heal way more than that with a zerker amulet. sorry if i blew your argument apart with that. but its true.

im confused is this a new change? if so source?

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

sophiewhite.3149:

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

I find that 2 condi necros + 1 druid + 1 guard + 1 ele or 2 condi necro + 1 druid + 1 ele + 1 chrono to be best pug combo right now for t4… not that I consider it meta. My experience in the 4 necro + 1 druid has been fairly bad.

my ps power warrior seems to do just fine and extremely good damage.

Oh, yeah, there’s no problem there for me, I just don’t see many warriors in high level fractals anymore. For that matter I see more DDs and Chronos than PS Berserkers.

probably because the high skill wall. not really any defensive abilities but all offensive. so dieing is super easy to just a few hits. and some bosses that 3 hit you and you cant even attack really with melee. im looking at you chaos!

Ayrilana.1396:

There doesn’t need to be a “real” recipe for it when the x1 works just fine. Most of the complaints are coming from those who use the x10 and don’t understand how probability works on small sample sizes vs larger sample sizes.

irrelevant. ledendarys are expensive enough without requiring a item thats unreasonable to farm yourself.

BrotherBelial.3094:

xeonage.1253:

BrotherBelial.3094:

DH’s have bad mobility. they are very slow, and need a Rev or something to put swiftness on them to get around or a team with out 3 DH’s can just out rotate the team stacked with DH’s. people need to remember this game is a take and Hold game. if a team is too slow to react to the rotation of points, then it’s game over.

Having 3-4 guards camping middle and the other team just running in to die, has nothing to do with a DH being OP, it has to do with the players understanding of how PvP works. people seem to think that you haver to have the middle point to win a game. I’ve won plenty where middle was never held, we just rotated middle and far the other team spent most of there time trying to retake there home. instead of sending someone off to de-cap far then move to middle they just pilled in to middle or there home. also people not looking at the mini map to see where they are needed.

There are two things that make a PvP game hard, skill(someone is always going to be better than you, we all have to face it.) and the lack on knowledge/understanding of how the game modes/classes work.

DH’s have GOOD/CRAZY mobility. If you know how to use sword 2. lock target ->leave target ->sword 2 back.

You need a target. This is what I am referring too.

i cannot think of a single situation where your kiting a dh and he cant target you.

Dawdler.8521:

Ubi.4136:

I just made my 77 as well for Nevermore. DO NOT EVER use the make 10 recipe. The more attempts, the closer to the RNG average you will get. Using the x10 recipe will just cost you more money if you aren’t lucky.

If it helps, I did keep track of my RNG rate and it was 24.7% of the time I got a clover.

And on top of that you can add do not use any recipe period. Reward tracks in both WvW and sPvP give tons of clovers.

Unless you plan on making a legendary on the spot right now in 5 minutes with all the gold and mats in your bank, clovers have exactly zero cost.

they give 2. so assuming you have unlimited 50% buff thats about 4 hours in wvw (the fastest reward track) to do it 38 times with 78 clovers. thats a lot of grinding pvp man. 152 hours i believe to get 1 legendary. some of them give 7 but those are only 1 time and in spvp only. so for your first legendary they can get you about half way.
edit: btw i tried the recipe 9 times. using 3 trys in a row. each 3 trys i got clovers using the recipe. hasnt failed me yet. now i just need 10 more clovers yay

i have a reward track i need to complete 6 times and was wonder if its faster or slower than the wvw ones

DarcShriek.5829:

sophiewhite.3149:

jinfury.9504:

Honestly you don’t need more than 8 bags unless you use the exploit and multi loot AB

so you dont want anet to make more money? to keep the game alive. the multi loot is irrelevant to the conversation. go to the right thread and stop dragging it into every thread in the forum.

Are you actually arguing that Anet needs to increase the limit of bags to keep the game financially stable?

Or are you just playing forum cop in order to dissuade any discussion of the AB multiloot exploit?

honestly no .but i am surprised how against anet making money you seem to be. your trying to tell people how to live their life. do i need more slots? no i carry the bare minnimum as is. but other people would like it. and the only argument against it is “your living your life wrong do it my way or deal with it”

i like how several people that are against it dont give a reason. the way i see it people get to spend more money to get bag slots so in turn anet gets more money to fund the game and their paychecks and no one suffers. win win win

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Balance is not bad it is fine except that build diversity has hit an all time low imho

would love to see a comeback from old specs like rifle engi, power war/mes/necro/ele that dont get eaten alive by druid/scrapper/DH/rev but I have no faith in Anet’s ability to restore build diversity at this point without extreme nerfs across the board to everything

balance aside…match making is still a failure even more so than last season. I had to go full premade to avoid the uncarryable potato heads with unplayable builds whom I have no idea how they even made it past ruby. roflstomping mostly duo queues+pugs as a full premade all the way to legend wasnt fun. even encountered a team PZ duo que-ers along the way which didnt help. fair match making…mostly not

i tried condi warrior this season. just couldnt do well. depended too much on landing one attack. so i switched to power and did much much better. i think power is better than condi cause most classes have condi cleanse built into their meta atm.

i absolutely cannot stand bloodstone fen. not in the slightest

maddoctor.2738:

Vanth.5439:

sophiewhite.3149:

the argument that people who dont do wont make the same gold is not a valid argument. no one has ever made insane profit from a majority of the maps. there is always 1 or 2 farm maps. nerf ab you will still have a farm map everyone will go there nothing will change.

Indeed… in this whole discussion, what amazes me most is that everyone is hating on AB multiloot, and no one is complaining about cleric farm :P That one throws rares at you like they’re candy, AND on top of that it adds stuff like lower level cloth and leather…

Funny how lower level cloth and leather prices haven’t seen a drop in months even after Ember Bay / Bloodstone Fen started rewarding them with their events. Either not enough people are there or the supply/demand are at such a good place that there is no issue.

probably because silver wastes already lowered them a ton. every think of that? or is ab your only devil?

the argument that people who dont do wont make the same gold is not a valid argument. no one has ever made insane profit from a majority of the maps. there is always 1 or 2 farm maps. nerf ab you will still have a farm map everyone will go there nothing will change.

Astralporing.1957:

Thaddeus.4891:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

However, the reason for the lower price today ultimately hurts those who don’t multiloot, because for the same effort they used to put in, they end up with less coin while those who do multiloot continue to rake it in.

I just can’t get aboard that argument. Silverwaste dropped the price of several item. Did that hurts people who didn’t do silverwaste??

Sure, SW farm had that effect too. Which is why it kept getting nerfed. First time happened within weeks of release (when they decreased the number of chests), and then they just kept introducing some minor and major tweaks over time (adjusting downward the chest drop rates, and chances of obtaining shovels from events). They kind of stopped doing that when Hot launched, but it was likely just because their focus shifted.

Apparently, Anet thought that SW was so good that it deserved the nerfs. AB multiloot is in many ways even more lucrative now. Think about it.

sw is still dropping the price of items to this very day. yet here you are complaining about ab.

windows 10 has the issue of loading going black and loading again. since the last update. me and several of my friends have this issue on windows 10 only. idk if anet could fix it but it would be greatif they could

jinfury.9504:

Honestly you don’t need more than 8 bags unless you use the exploit and multi loot AB

so you dont want anet to make more money? to keep the game alive. the multi loot is irrelevant to the conversation. go to the right thread and stop dragging it into every thread in the forum.

Rolisteel.1375:

If you solo kill warriors on necro then you play against very bad warriors probably. I played warrior today for first time, no necro killed me yet they are free kills

In which division you killed warriors on your necro?

if a player has more skill than you they will beat you on any class. ive been wrecked by necro on my warrior because i was outplayed. (usually they had full shroud too)

AuTomA.2459:

fishball.7204:

Only time SW chest farm got nerfed was when there were like 20 chests spawning right outside Amber.

They nerfed it by reducing the chest amounts spawning there as well as crest drops from the chest so that it wasn’t self sustaining because people just ignored the entire map and chest farmed there.

And still it was less profitable than multiloot

more profitable you mean.

Exciton.8942:

You can’t just use one tournament to judge the profession balance.
Warrior shined a lot in proleague season 2 final.
In the more recent world championship final, the composition revolves around how to make the best out of necro’s superior fire power. So it gets hard for warrior to find a place.
But meta shifts, I won’t be surprised if ppl can come up with composition that makes use of a warrior.

you mean like everyone on this forum does constantly to justify nerfs? you mean to tell me that top lvl pro players arent the same as scrub casuals in soloq? SAY IT AINT SO

spirit shards are not rare. i have 1k and havnt finished maguuma or tyria. i could but i dont need to atm. i dont see why you need 3k+ spirit shards.

AuTomA.2459:

I totally agree,never seen ecto price going so low,i don’t get why this Multiloot it’s not nerfed yet,i remember when it popped up sw cf it got nerfed like 1 hour later when people jumped from map to map and it was no less profitable than multiloot.Multiloot instead is going on for MONTHS and nobody in Anet takes action against it,it’s breaking the ecto price,the sigil/runes price/the rare items price/the materials for ascends etc,it’s just destroying the market.

did you just say sw got nerfed? LOL yeah right. source or i dont believe you.if your talking about the crest nerf. thats not even a nerf.

gotta say though. this doesnt justify nerfs. just bug fixes.

Trinnitty.8256:

I think bloodstone fen and embay bay give alot of rares from event completion. So combine silver wastes, AB, bloodstone fen and ember bay thats alot rares. I don’t think its Solely AB anymore. I haven’t done AB in months due to it gets boring.

ab is also failing like mad and having very few maps because everyone is moving to the new zone. inb4 “nerf ember bay pls”

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

sophiewhite.3149:

Ruru.1302:

sophiewhite.3149:

Ruru.1302:

sophiewhite.3149:

lioka qiao.8734:

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

abusing exploits like this is complete bs btw.

Forcing necros out of shroud with moa is not an exploit.

using moa to completely drain shroud and kill all their minions IS a exploit.

Care to explain how an intended, consistent mechanic qualifies as an exploit? It works like this for all transforms.

i refuse to believing killing all your minions is intended. until a dev actually says so.

It works like this for all classes, pretty sure they also stated it’s intended.

if thats the case i think its a bs mechanic but whatever. we both know the devs wont care either way.

Khisanth.2948:

Warrior does have a pull, spear 3 …

its a pretty close range one too XD

mid ruby. 170 games played 86 won. this was my first season so i didnt expect to do amazing. been a learning experience and im still learning. though its hard to tell a lot of times if your doing bad or your kitten teammates are dragging you down.

maddoctor.2738:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

maddoctor.2738:

Keep in mind that when the price of ecto was getting lower and lower they added salvaging for dust to increase their value. Ectos need to be more expensive because Anet wants them to be more expensive, the question is what’s the best way to stop their price drop.

From the June 2013 patch notes:
“Globs of ectoplasm can now be salvaged into Piles of Crystalline Dust. This change should help Globs of Ectoplasm maintain a strong value in the economy and lower the cost of Crystalline Dust.”

I remember crystalline dust being similar, or more expensive than ecto back then though.
That was probably more to do with the price of dust than the price of ectos.

It was about both.
The price of ectos was dropping rapidly before they introduced the salvaging.
Then when HoT was released the price of ectos dropped and was increasing steadily until June 2016. Then from June 2016 it started dropping rapidly.

Dust price has seen a big drop when the patch hit but since then has been mostly steady, until June 2016 where it started dropping rapidly together with the ecto price.

Soon ectos will reach the value they had before the salvaging patch of June 2013. At that point we can all be sure that the devs will do something about it, the question is what.

June 2016 was the turning point for both when they started dropping in value. It’s not a coincidence that the AB multi loot started around that time.

how can we be sure they will take action? source?

Hooglese.4860:

Sigh, yeah, they really should. The worst offender is mesmer’s but they’re all pretty dumb and they could be fixed pretty easily using a similar matrix:

• Chronomancer’s don’t get distortion (shatter)
• Druid: Only get one pet
• Scrapper: can’t revive/stomp without the gyro
• Berserker: no access to non-primal bursts, buff to non-primals or nerf to primals to even them out.
• Herald: add a cost to using facet of nature; reduce energy to max out at 50%

I do think these two have the right idea just some imbalances you’ve mentioned.

• Guard: buff normal virtues (Justice gives 1 unblockable attack, Valor has a lowered CD and heals for as much as the wings, courage blocks the next 3 attacks)
• Necro: buff to normal shroud

I will say Daredevil needs a whole rework along with some improvements to theif. It’s so dumb, Dash is clearly the strongest dodge as it makes you immune to immobilization and is pretty much the whole acrobatics line in a single trait. Not to mention it gives an additional dodge AND makes your dodges better. Not taking it is a huge handicap.

buff guardian. your joking right?

Ruru.1302:

sophiewhite.3149:

lioka qiao.8734:

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

abusing exploits like this is complete bs btw.

Forcing necros out of shroud with moa is not an exploit.

using moa to completely drain shroud and kill all their minions IS a exploit.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Better suggestion: nerf all the powercreep introduced with HoT.

better suggestion get pve out of pvp. seriously.

everything is mean everything discriminates and you have you point it all out.
i mean change it all to better suite me.

Sartharina.3542:

AB is the best source of Hardened LEather because it’s the best source of assorted random junk, and there’s no way to farm Leather reliably (And ANet wonders why people aren’t farming it).

The problem with the AB Multiloot is the way it concentrates material wealth into those who participate in it – any tweaks to ecto source that don’t address the AB multiloot hurts everyone else disproportionately more than the multilooters.

sw gives WAY more hardened leather than ab. so im assuming you want people from queensdale to be able to farm the same amount of ectos as everywhere else.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Foss.4830:

Only thing thats gonna drive prices back up is the introduction of massive ecto sinks.

Or just nerf AB Multiloot. The price for ectos was consistently in the same range until AB/ML, with minor variations during various special events. It didn’t start driving down as quickly until AB/ML. My guess, if AB meta ends up working like the other HoT maps (one map of chests per victory, not 8+), the price of ecto will hit 40 silver within 4 months, even without new ecto sinks.

Why should it be nerfed? I mean, whats the problem? I dont think that there is anything particular wrong with low ecto prices. And the lower the price gets, average rewards from AB will nerf itself. You already get 40% less gold for your ectos compared to six months ago.

One negative effect that comes to mind is that AB is so lucrative, that other content doesnt look rewarding anymore and leads to a congested population spread, which isnt very healthy for the game in general.

You missed the point to which I was responding: someone said the only way for ecto prices to rise again would be to add sinks. I responded by saying that it’s not the only way; ANet could nerf a single source and that would also IMO cause ecto prices to rise. I wasn’t offering an opinion about whether ANet should or shouldn’t change AB/ML

---

As it happens, I expect that ANet will nerf AB/ML at some point. Not because there’s anything wrong with low ecto prices — in fact, I suspect they are taking their time in part because they like the market disruption caused by AB/ML, especially the supply of leather and cloth.

The problem with AB being so lucrative is that, by comparison, everything else is less lucrative. It’s not just congestion in AB, it’s also that loot everywhere else is worth less, because the supply from AB/ML is far and above greater than what folks can get through other methods.

That means that AB/ML participants get richer quicker and non-participants won’t. That’s not good for the game in the long run, which is why I think ANet will nerf AB/ML.

I don’t have any opinion about whether they should or not. I’m expressing my opinion on what I think they will do based on actions they have taken in the past.

well you cant get much hardened leather from ab. or hard wood. or linen or any other low lvl mats from ab. at least not in reasonable numbers. you go to other places for that.all you really get from ab is highest tier wood and leather and ectos.
edit: i would also like to mention that ab and all other meta pops are low since ember bay came in. and have not recovered. should we nerf ember bay also?

TheFantasticGuy.7206:

I find that 2 condi necros + 1 druid + 1 guard + 1 ele or 2 condi necro + 1 druid + 1 ele + 1 chrono to be best pug combo right now for t4… not that I consider it meta. My experience in the 4 necro + 1 druid has been fairly bad.

my ps power warrior seems to do just fine and extremely good damage.

Dawdler.8521:

So uh… what’s the difference between this and actually doing guild missions when representing the guild and getting all the boons from upgraded guild halls?

forced dependency on other people and their schedule.

Cynz.9437:

Obindo.6802:

Awe.1096:

Obindo.6802:

Coz ppl r bad

That is not even an argument of any sort and one of the most common fallacies used in discussions regarding PvP. The common thing is that in all skill based games, players with top skill cap are a very small % of entire population. So let’s assume that 80% of players are so called “bad”, 15% decent and 5% good. If a particular class design creates significant problem for those “bads”, it directly affects 80% of your game population. There is a reason that “pub stompers” are so popular in most PvP based games. This is the same reason why nowadays I see 2-3 DH in most conquest teams in GW2. Perhaps they loose their viability in top tiers of play, I don’t know. But this does not change the fact that they are an issue for all “bads” and thus for the majority of game population.

Also make an experiment will you? Whenever you play a conquest match (lower half of tiers in ranked at least or any unranked game if you are higher) at start count which team got more DH in squad. Then check the correlation between this and which team actually won the match at the end. The results are, at least in my case, interesting albeit predictable.

?
tl;dr

I wish one day there was bugged patch that removed all warriors passive traits and effects and lowered their HP to 11k. Maybe then you would stop calling other bad.

so basically you want all skills removed on a class so you can sit and go “noob im so good dont even bother playing against me” . how big is that ego?

pls do run more p/p on thief. my warrior loves letting you kill yourself or your allie with my shield reflect.

Darknicrofia.2604:

only kitten ran a DH in the world championships, and he’s a strictly guardian main. every other team didn’t use a DH once.

in fact, thief saw more usage than DH.

and warrior wasnt there at all.you cant base balance around the top tier pvp. otherwise necro and ele would be getting nerfed(1 on every team) and warrior would be getting buffed. i dont play ele at all and even i know they need a buff. and warrior is selka fine.

lioka qiao.8734:

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

abusing exploits like this is complete bs btw.

Hendrix.9763:

afrocrusade.4253:

Use one of your (literally) 15 dodges. Stop complaining with the most broken, goofy, silly class in the game that just barely manages to function.

Please, teleport on top of the roof above you on Kyhlo while the rest of us are actually limited.

As a thief, you unfortunately shouldn’t win every fight you have. Sadly, you can’t get a trump card in GW2. It’s a trap for a reason.

You act like shadowstepping is some “godly” ability that makes me completely “unlimited”. You’re so obtuse it’s sad. Right now shadowstepping is more of a LIABILITY than it is a PERK with these traps.

And not only that, but how is this a “trump card” for a thief to win any fight? That’s not even possible, this would only affect thief vs guard!

never thought id say this but have you tried you know. not walking into the traps?

Hexinx.1872:

Skill points or whatever they were originally called were automatically converted into spirit shards on lvl 80 characters with excess points long ago when shards came out.

The only way you can grind that 200 (and i’ve done it many times) is dailies, and converting tomes of knowledge on lvl 80 characters into shards. Basically how i look at it, I can make 3 from a daily, and about 5 a night in WvW from tomes.

gotta grind, and i don’t know any other way to do it faster with little time spent (I only play after work and kids go to bed, so my time spent daily is limited to about 3 hours a night)

you also get it as drops sometimes from trash mobs in fractals.

Sznurek.8791:

>Implying DH is OP and the same time when no one is meta is using it because it’s to weak
>Playing power ranger and thinking it should be great 1v1
Play a DH on higher leagues and you will know their problems(if they go more into survival they lose a lot of burst damage and when they take trap only build they second easiest to kill class in the game also both can’t stand longer battles) can’t say a lot about symbolic never played it. Also my main Pvp character isn’t DH(just to make it clear). DH is just a class which is easy to play but there is not a lot of place of progress and improvement with it.
And yes HoT classes are all OP and meta and right now it’s just a fact so playing ranger when druid is the class you should play if you want to be great is another mistake(druid easily wins DH 1v1).
And before you say I should be able to play my classes whatever way I want and it should be always great no it should not it’s impossible to balance and to make each class unique but devs should try to make every weapon and combination viable in different scenarios and I think they try to do it. Looking at ranger sword and dagger useful in pvp. main hand Axe pve. Raids axe sword/axe raids fractals dungeons longbow also if you go power if you need condi shortbow. Warhorn again pve for some swiftness(but right now after druid trait for faster moving it’s not that useful). Torch and great sword could be in better place(arguably axe mainhand also) but they try to balance it.
edit minor text fixes

its funny because its not true. there were dh’s in ESL the highest you can get. and it has a meta build. guess you missed that also.last i checked diamond was still stacked with 4 dh’s

im curious whats going to happen to people who dont have any of the seasons and have no way to get the new stat selection . which would make other players more powerful than them

Lahmia.2193:

I prefer having loot boxes. It means I can farm and farm without having to stop every 5 minutes to salvage all my loot because of a full inventory.

and if we couldnt open boxes on lower level characters the price of ascended gear would skyrocket.

Lucred.1802:

Ragion.2831:

Crinn.7864:

Ragion.2831:

so the reason for smaller cap points is to shorten the duration of the fight? You understand that some classes are better at fighting on smaller cap points than others right? and that is a huge problem since the matchmaking doesnt take profession mix into account

You have just basically said that shorter fights are more important than classes fighting on an even footing. You are saying, it doesnt matter if two (even 3) thieves are staring down a multi DH, multi condi war comp it doesnt matter as long as the thieves die quickly without wasting time bothering about contesting. This is why people have a problem with anet devs.

Lol im done.

The problem with longer fights is longer fights changes how the rotation games works. If the fights take too long then rotation becomes devalued and strategy turns to simply taking home and bunking mid.

A example of this is 3point maps in SW:TOR (back when it had 8v8 ranked) where that game’s more difficult capping system meant that teams simply take close and contest mid, and the team that capped their close first wouldn’t even need to cap mid. Thus winning simply became about getting the first cap and the rest of the match was just for show.

Thieves would actually be less useful with large nodes because with large nodes the gameplay turns away from rotations and towards bunking. And thieves strength as always been in rotations.

Before, the June 23rd patch that killed core thief, i was a combat thief so i would run S/D and D/P, rune of lyssa, 30 points in trickery, improvisation trait and old feline grace trait. I ran this because i really hated (and still do) stealthing but i liked the evade gameplay.

I noticed that this build was really good at fighting revealed and did really well in team fights and outnumbered fights against other classes. This was really useful on a large point because when i recalled out of range to avoid a pin i would still be on the point or very near it so i could still contest. This doesnt work anymore after all the changes.

Nowadays with smaller points thieves cannot participate in a team fight well because of DH traps and all the random AoE, Often times i would see a thief hanging back looking at a fight waiting for an aoe skill to end before jumping in, waiting because going to another point isnt a good option at that moment for whatever reason.

This is why Helseth (i think) said they dont pay any attention to what thief is doing.

DH traps are really bad for the game, the amount of stealth on thieves also really bad for thieves. Ive said this for months its only now people are finally beginning to understand why.

And I think this is why I’m seeing so many P/P thieves in mid-high ranked and why you almost never see a non-P/P thief in unranked. If they get even remotely close to melee range they melt from untargeted AoE and Unload will kill or come close to killing most classes most of the time plus it’s on a short enough cooldown they can usually get 2-3 off before they’re caught. It’s a cheese build and not viable at ESL levels but it’s enough to make them not-useless at Ruby/Diamond/lower Legendary.

warrior shield makes p/p thief kill itself.

Yasha.5963:

Nice description, haha. The answer to your question is that HoT happened.

Not only are the HoT specs/abilities/etc OP, they tie a specific weapon and class upgrades to the extra class skill-line HoT added. That means out of the three skill-lines we can use, we have to use the HoT skill-line for one, effectively cutting build diversity by one third. That is compounded by having a weapon also tied to the skill-line, meaning players will mainly use the HoT weapon as well (since it usually has synergistic traits in the HoT skill-line), resulting in even less build diversity.

For example in HoT guard virtues get a major upgrade with awesome active abilities that are better than most utilities/skills. But you can’t use the upgraded virtues unless you take the Dragon Hunter skill line. A similar thing is true for other classes.

Btw the DH you mentioned was most annoying? That has actually been nerfed a couple of times! Here is a great video showing how much skill it takes to play spvp with a HoT build:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

if i made videos i would show how builds like this doesnt work anymore. if i played any class against decent players and popped all my defensive offensive and healing abilities at once on any class i would lose 10/10 times.

just time your skills right theres a extremely small gap in each attack you need to land hits in between or if your a boss land a stun and kill them instantly