Guild Wars 2

For months after release, players made thread upon thread demanding that melee weapons do more damage. They suggested the risk of melee range deserved more damage. Which in itself is a good point.

If your unhappy that melee weapons do more damage then ranged weapons, you need to be unhappy with the posters who flooded the forums demanding this situation.

Sirendor.1394:

Guhracie.3419:

I’m going to have to disagree. Levels in GW2 are much less important than in most other RPG systems. GW2 does an excellent job with scaling, as well, in most areas.

I’m going to have to disagree to disagreeing. Levels serve no purpose except to stop newbies from getting killed by the first boss they encounter.

Solution: add a tutorial…

Why add tutorials? So when a good many players skip them, or cheese through them and learn nothing, you can seek some other way to blame the game and not the player?

The fact that my server has always, since release, had full WvW maps, almost always a queue, I think the OP is out of his mind to assume “the community” does champ trains. I am in three guilds that have 20-100 players on at any given time, and more at times, I never hear of anyone grinding or champ training. Just because 20+ players are in quennsdale doesn’t mean anything. Your making poor assumptions to suggest the trains of .000000001% of the player count represent "the community’

Almost every point the OP made, in my opinion, seems to be a hyperbole or an effort to take something a small crowd is doing ad label them as the community.

What the heck are you talking about? They do not count because they are “skills” and “traits”???

What do you think clones are? They are weapons skills, traits, and utility skills

What do you think Stealth is??? Its is an effect granted by skills and traits.

Virtues and Death shroud are professional mechanic skills.

I mean, I am all for discussing it, but goodness man, your not even making sense here.

Ameno.6813:

Warriors get Endure Pain which give’s them 4 seconds of damage immunity (1 second longer the both Mist Form and Elixir S) and they still have complete access to their skills.

Actually your incorrect. it gives them 4s of immunity to direct damage. They are still completely susceptible to all conditions. So my burns, bleeds, poisons, confusion, still do solid damage,and even more importantly my cripples and immobilizes will still damage and stop them, as well as chills, but I have no regular access to them on my engineer. I can still blind them. I can still inflict weakness to negate any attacks.

So they get one whopping extra second and access to their skills and I still get to do all I listed, to them

I on the other hand get 1 whopping second less, and lose access to my abilities, to be totally immune to everything. It is a trade off. But do not sit here and suggest Endure Pain can do things that it cannot.

Ameno.6813:

They should buff Elixir S and Mist Form to at least get condition damage immunity…

I am unclear what your getting at here. You are immune to condition damage being applied while in form of elixir s.

cdimgcc.1638:

As for the vigor, I think the reason the most engineers are bummed, is because dodging is our only defense mechanism.

Can’t say that I agree with this statement in the least.

Protective Shield
Stabilized Armor
Auto defense Bomb Dispenser
Go for the Eyes
Cloaking Device
Low Health Response System
Automated medical response
Hiden Flask
Transmute (Especially the proposed Transmute Change)
Acid Coating
Self Regulating Defense
Protection Injection
Cleansing Formula 409
Automated Response
Adrenaline Pump
Leg Mods
Armor Mods
Adrenal Implant

Every one of those is an inherently defensive trait We have several blinds in skills like Static Shot, Smoke Bomb, and Smoke vent.

We have a Shield skill that reflect and can do an AoE interrupt. We have another Shield skill that blocks and can stun multiple opponents up to 3 times in a single use. We have a 3 s block with gear shield that can be traited to a 16s cool down. That skill alone means we can quit literally block over 18% of the time.

Elixir S offers complete invulnerability.
Elixir C turns any boon into a buff (unfortunately this is our only true inherent condition removal)

Thus I feel it is a little much to suggest we have no defense mechanisms other then vigor. The same vigor that they are congruently changing on the other professions as well. Of coarse they are al making the exact same claim as you are about their professions as your making here. I find it impressive that all professions swear this change is hosing them the most because they all swear dodging is their only defense mechanism.

Personally, as far as defense goes, I feel our most lacking issue is related to the fact that we are limited to elixirs for any effective condition removal.

It would be handy if you ask me. When I drop my supply crate, The net turret is often invaluable. Having another CC turret might be handy.

Specifically what build are you using?

They are basically cutting vigor up time by 50% if you use speedy kits to get vigor. This is both in line with their philosophy of limiting endurance regeneration across the board, and giving everyone who was demanding speedy kits duration extension.

As long as the continue to consistently propose similar changes to the other professions, which they appear to be doing. I do not see a problem with it.

I noticed that Jon made a post in the general topic on Dec. 10 proposed changes.
One thing he mentioned caught my eye.

" We want control builds and condition builds to have more of a place in high end PvE."

This makes me curious about how any changes would offer either one to the engineer as a profession. The only thing they could change in my eyes, to benefit enginer CC is to change access to stability. As far as condition builds, I do not see how any mentioned changes will benefit any of our (or any other professions) condition builds, because the problem stems more from stack limits and conditions that stack in duration and and those with caps.

How in the world are hobo sack and kit refinement threads relevant to this.

One is a graphical design coding issue. One in a balance issue that they feel thier opinion on, out weighs the communities, They other was a change we demanded that they granted those demanding it.

You can dress it up anyway you want to. It is still an iron clad fact that there were a good many multiple threads demanding a longer swiftness duration on “speedy kits”.

Hobosacks and kit refinement have nothing to do with the fact that there were thread after thread of posters demanding they extend the speedy kit swiftness duration.

Personal trade systems of any kind are the single most exploited aspect of every MMO.
These systems are how people dupe to make more of the same item. I am glad they had the foresight not to put any in the game.

Gadget focused builds were very popular closer to release. Someone has already posted a build called the Gadgetieer, the inspector gadget build, The tool man build, and the “mechanic”. They were popular originally in sPvP for the CC value.

Actually if you look at most of the build threads with a build name in the past 3 months, pretty much everyone of them is a build posted, named, and used, from a year ago.

LoreChief.8391:

I’m sorry but by application, we are not engineers – my original point still stands. You can say “these utility skills were all INVENTED by somebody therefore it makes them an engi”. That is not the case. We run around with guns, bombs, mines, flamethrowers – there is neither an engineerish feel to the class, nor an actual engineerish skill type. We should either be renamed Commando, or as I stated originally – when they add new skills in the future they need to add ACTUAL engineer skills.

By what definition do you make the statements that we are not engineers by application. How many commandos or combat engineers have you known? It appears to me the issue is not with the profession, but your personal view of it. Which is very very much in the minority.

Because in relation to all of the other skills/traits of its nature, like mist form for example, they lost all access to their skills, preventing them from healing or using any other skill. SO I guess the more direct answer to your question is that in relation to other skills of the same function, it was overpowered, which is why the guy in that video could do alot of what he did.

Wishmaster.7693:

“By increasing the swiftness duration on Speedy Kits, we hope to allow Swiftness to be maintained more reasonably without having to constantly be swapping between Kits.”

So many lies, what happens if my swiftness gets stolen after I proc it? Just admit it that you did it JUST to remove perma vigor, not ALSO…

They did it for both reasons and explained that very clearly. As well if you do not like the swiftness duration increase, you need to gripe at the community, because anyone can lead you to hundreds of post of players screaming and demanding an increase to its duration.

If you dislike this change, you should have spoke up in all of those repeated threads demand this change.

This is what makes me lauch here, I see some posters here (very many actually) that I see posted on threads demanding speedy kits duration gets extended because there poor little fingers get tired.

All of this unfounded complaints trying to feign ignorance and anger while crying nerf to Anet are becoming quit the funny joke. The community is getting exactly what they asked for and demanded. If you do not like that, direct it at those who demanded it with fever, not the ones who granted the wish.

No you will not be capable of anything like what he did in that video if you ask me. The trick that saved his tail the majority of the time, Elixir S. Both the use of the utility skill and the trait that procs it at 25% health. That skill has changed. You no longer have access to any skills once it is activated, so all of that healing he does while he is invulnerable will never be capable of occurring again, and he would have died in the first 12s of that video.

I am against changing how laurels work. Between Laurels and guild commendations. I Basically have a full set of all the jewelry for just about every stat set. It is time gated ascended gear and I have no problem with that. I spent my time and earned it. It is not difficult, it simply takes a little time. With a game with no fees, I feel some time gating as limited as this is, is almost required.

In my experience, one of the best things you can do, is learn how to quickly identify and target the actually mesmer. Learning to keep the mesmer as your target for your skills is key in my experience, and not letting clones distract you.

Honestly, Because the lore says so. It is simply in the lore that most of out tech comes from the Charr and that they were the original engineer.

The problem with reporting, is even if Anet sees all the chat. The OP mentioned they are all in the same guild. Therefore they could have simply conspired in mumble or teamspeak.

So what type of armor do you suggest? I would love to see your design ideas. I mean if your hate what we do have and feel the need to complain about it, the least you could do is tell Anet what you do want.

eisberg.2379:

coglin.1867:

Buttercup.5871:

When over the last year literally hundreds of people have “complained” and/or requested clarification about this bug/oversight on this official forum, yes, it’s called ignoring.

And when you put in a help ticket on this what did they say about fixing the bug?

They didn’t because it isn’t a bug. It is an item that doesn’t drop in populated zones from kills players do often. And I love it. Because they are not all that rare, and I farm them to sell at inflated prices to lazy players who prefer to spend hours complaining on the forums, rather then putting in the effort to get items for their legendary, then complain that getting a legendary took effort.

May not be a bug, but it is a design flaw. Nothing in this game should be based around needing alts to complete something. You yourself is saying that you like to sell at the inflated price to the lazy people who do not want to earn themselves. The problem is they cannot earn it themselves on a level 80 character without paying your admitting stated inflated amount. It is a design flaw if having alts is needed to get an item for a different character.

Design flaw? That’s a bit of a hyperbole don’t you think? Why in the world would you need alts? You farm them just they way you farm lodestones, or upper tier mats.

Its is not a design flaw. It is a thought process flaw on your part. There is no reason you need an alt for anything. Your down leveled. That is part of the design.

Man, typing this is hard. I cannot stop laughing since I read design flaw…………They are just as easy to farm as all of the items I farmed. I want to give my sympathy to this cause, I really do. But my personal experience farming all the mats myself and my common sense, just refuse to let me get behind you on this one.

BoB.6082:

Ele has the vigor on crit also. and ranger already has a ton of evades built into their weapons. A thief is also very good at evading. warriors have a ton of invuln kitten. guards have a lot of blocks+aegis+vigor.

Yes, I know this, thank you. I already stated all of this, then I quoted the dev stating they were going to change all of those vigor and endurance regeneration traits. They have already made 3 separate announcements about changing eles access to vigor. They stated how they plan to changed Rangers. I havn’t seen what they are planning for guardians yet.

Buttercup.5871:

When over the last year literally hundreds of people have “complained” and/or requested clarification about this bug/oversight on this official forum, yes, it’s called ignoring.

And when you put in a help ticket on this what did they say about fixing the bug?

They didn’t because it isn’t a bug. It is an item that doesn’t drop in populated zones from kills players do often. And I love it. Because they are not all that rare, and I farm them to sell at inflated prices to lazy players who prefer to spend hours complaining on the forums, rather then putting in the effort to get items for their legendary, then complain that getting a legendary took effort.

I understand why you put Automated response in there, but I was just trying to stay on the topic of cleanses.

Every engineer I know or read about had all but abandoned Elixir R for what I feel is a good reason. I doubt you will have any luck convincing me, or anyone else that players would take this for a cleanse, or even use it very often at all anymore, with the exception of a full alchemy line invested elixir build, which is the one build that we have almost got an excess of cleansing.

(I have all professions leveled to 80) It is very hard not to lose all respect for you the second you try to suggest Engineer deal with incoming conditions better then guardian, so lets not open that discussion :p

But yeah, it is a terrible thing that you can be a 3 or 4 kit engineer and have 20-25 skills available to you and only be able to cleans 2 conditions in 20s and have to swap into 2 separate kits to do it. That is 4 button presses for 2 conditions, and any CC that doesn’t interrupt you can still prevent you from getting to the “dropped” antidote once that is cast.

I have no idea what the OP is getting at. To me it appears to be a thread about a pointless complaint that you have to put in some time and effort to get a legendary.

These complaints baffle. It is as if some people have some odd sense of self entitlement and feel like it should be easier for “them” to get their legendary.

It is hard to complain that Anet is ignoring a problem, when there is actually no problem.

Automated response – is not a cleanse.

Elixir R – Really? After the nerf it is very undesirable.

Elixir Gun – requires switching to the kit and ground targeting for one condition cleared with Super Elixir. and Fumigate won’t cleanse yourself.

Heal Turret – requires a “process” to cleanse anything.

Remove condi on elixir – Basically restricted to fairly specific builds.

Elixir C – This is the only true cleanse we have for ourselves, but it is a pain being restricted to elixirs only for a cleanse.

This is just how I feel about the limitations of the list your presented. When you look at it as a whole, it doesn’t look too bad, but when you try to put it into a build and want successful or comparative cleansing, I just don’t feel it leavs you with near as solid a build as you can get in solid builds when I play my other professions.

Personally, I feel we are one of the best debuffers. So many bosses have some type of heal or regen now, and poison is very easy for us to apply and maintain. We can heavily stack vulnerability, maybe better then anyone. We can keep up weakness 100% of the time. We can apply blinds as fast as any other profession.

No other profession can Keep burns up better then the engineer. Maybe equally but not better.

All in all I have to agree that we do have a place. We can stack as many bleeds as anyone, keep up 100% burning, poison, weakness, and blinds. We can be equaled at these things, but not beaten.

I do not care about the other things some professions is very specific builds can do. I rarely encounter players capable of constantly maximizing a specific aspect. When I bruing my engineer I am the balance. For some reason I end up with aggro very regularly. I survive it, freeing others to do those jobs you feel they are better at then us. I feel the gaps. I top the conditions off then they are close but not capped. I keep the might up with my fire fields/finisher, help with 12s group invis when shadow refuge is on CD. Assuming we even have a thief in group.

We have diversity, giving use the ability to fill in gap in a way no other profession can. That is what we are best at. That is what I like about out profession in a dungeon. I may not be the best at anyone thing, but I am generally very good at several things, i na way no other profession can be.

Thats just it, the point is

We don’t like classes having permanent Vigor, and this is one of the areas we needed to tone down the up time of the engineer’s Vigor._

They are working on changing them all. As long as it is a somewhat relative change, as they are projecting, it is not a nerf to engineers. It is a change to every profession, so I have trouble acceptin all the
’woe is me, they destroyed my engineer" crud you guys keep suggesting. This is not a specific profession change, it is a general endurance chance.

So, Infamous Darkness, instead of quoting every single post of someone who disagrees with you and arguing it, what should the engineer be? Why should it be that way? How do you implement it?

K U T M, that is kind of my point, Elixir C is our only choice and I feel we need more. I disagree that the tool belt skill is worth it alone. Its not a bad skill, but one condition every 30s isn’t anything to get excited about.

As far as fumigate goes, yeah I love it. I just happen to dislike our limitations for self cleanse.

And for elixir builds, turret builds, and gadget builds speedy kits is useless for vigor. And yes, the so called “inspector gadget” control builds are fun and do play wel in WvW and PvP.

Besides, why would you have a “low crit” build? We all know it is illegal to run any gear other then zerker or rabid…………/end sarcasm

Phineas is correct. You do not post in terms of opinion or concept, you put all of your post in the form of definitive statements.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

coglin.1867:

And ??

Complain at me all you like. Its clear that Anet has began a pattern of scaling down endurance regeneration. Debating qualifiers with me isn’t going to change that. It is as if you folks who think the sky is falling because of this, actually believe can magically changing it by debating with us who do find it as world ending.

I am not complaining, just stating a fact. A lot of people have been writing of “perma vigor” through Infused Precision, while this is only virtually possible for a very specific build.

Another fact is, that Mesmers, Guardians and Elementalists have access to a twice as strong vigor trait for only one fourth or half the investment in trait points. If Anet want to scale down vigor availability they should do it across the board.

Actually, they have discussed making changes to these professions options for endurance regeneration. They simply haven’t announced an intention yet.

Engineers still have easy access to permavigor too. They have implemented no changes. Your making blind assumptions to claim those professions will have no change to endurance regeneration in over a month from now.

And what your point about needing a very specific build for permavigor under the proposed changes? We need a “very specific” build to do it with the other trait combination now. You post hyperbole with every example.

And ??

Complain at me all you like. Its clear that Anet has began a pattern of scaling down endurance regeneration. Debating qualifiers with me isn’t going to change that. It is as if you folks who think the sky is falling because of this, actually believe can magically changing it by debating with us who do find it as world ending.

Berengar.6951:

coglin.1867:

Its hard to get upset with endurance regen changes when they are limiting all of the other professions access to vigor similarly, as well they are limiting the passive endurance regenerations for them as we. For example the Ranger adept minor trait, “natural vigor” is changing from a passive 50% endurance regeneration to a passive 25% endurance regeneration. For the most part it is pretty clear they are making changes of this nature across the board. Which is why I keep laughing at all of the knee jerk reaction post that complain about it as if it is the end of the world. They are so ignorant to the fact of what is occurring, they post as if Anet is singling us out.

As far as I can tell they are not nerfing the vigor on crit traits for mesmers or guardians.

Yeah, they do need to adjust our trait to be like that of the guardian & mesmer, or scale theirs back. As it is a a minor adept trait for them with a 100% chance on crit, compared to ours that requires a 20 point investment for 50% chance.

Having said that, is a completely false statement some of you are making to suggest we cannot keep vigor up with those 2 traits, some of use have been doing it for a long time. 2 words. Boon, Duration.

Its hard to get upset with endurance regen changes when they are limiting all of the other professions access to vigor similarly, as well they are limiting the passive endurance regenerations for them as we. For example the Ranger adept minor trait, “natural vigor” is changing from a passive 50% endurance regeneration to a passive 25% endurance regeneration. For the most part it is pretty clear they are making changes of this nature across the board. Which is why I keep laughing at all of the knee jerk reaction post that complain about it as if it is the end of the world. They are so ignorant to the fact of what is occurring, they post as if Anet is singling us out.

I like the controlled system we have now. I do not want it to change. The fewer slots we have, they more important our choices for them are. I prefer not to cheapen their value.

I want travelers runes, to sell to the OP.

This also depends on if we are speaking of single target or AoE.

RyuDragnier.9476:

facepalms

If you guys hadn’t noticed, they’re hitting almost every class with this passive vigor nerf. Stop acting like it’s just us when most players are getting hit with something similar.

Not even just passive endurance regeneration. In many cases they are also limiting traits that proc the vigor buff itself as well. Limited the amount of time the vigor boon will be applied.

It appears your attempting to suggest a rune set as a solution to a condition removal issue. That raises two issues in itself. For one, its based on the use of an elite skill, which all have extended cool downs. Elites are not intended to be used as condition removal. Secondly, were are discussing the condition removal issue in terms of the profession as a wgole and its limitations anywhere. When you bring sigils and runes into the discussion, you have to remember that every profession can use them.

A professions ability to accomplish a necessary should not be linked to a rune or sigil.

Oh yes. I doubt anyone disagrees that the lack of the “weapons damage” effecting kits, is a problem. I would love to hear Jon’s take on this subject.

I am not suggesting swiftness isn’t useful, I am simply suggesting that it is much less useful a trait benefit then several of the other traits benefits are in its place.

You suggested merging rifle traits for cool down and range. These traits also effect the pistols. Was this simply an oversight, or are you suggesting that the rifle benefits get merged and the pistol skills do not?

Keen.9253:

As they are today, kits dmg are not influenced by your equiped weapons or stat, but have a flat dmg by your lvl.

Your are incorrect. Weapons stats and sigils all fully effect all kits.

Why do you have the trait “infused precession” (III) in the fire arms line? Its is not going to do much for you in in your build. You would be much better off going for the 20% weapons cool down reduction trait.

Captain Swag.5893:

I’d love to see that, but God knows, and anybody knows that ArenaNet hates Engineers and would never buff anything without nerfing another of our things.

That is very much the hyperbole.

If you want anyone to take your seriously, your going to have to present a level of applicable logic that others can agree with. When not a single person can agree with your statements, heck they cannot even take you seriously, then it is time to step back and re-evaluate your thoughts on the matter instead of arguing it vehemently.

Keen.9253:

Seems your are missing the point, maybe read again my post.

What is there to miss? You are arguing against players suggestions of buffing MH pistol to its previous state. Did you use it during its previous state? Why are you so against positive changes? I do not agree with your assessment at all. In bomb build without grenades, pistols are often the ranged weapon. I do not see how it would not be good to fix the damage of your ranged weapon in this case simply because you feel the bombs are strong.