i’m much more worried about pvp rewards for sale for gold, and pvers can just buy everything from their farming
I can only hope, for the future of this game, that the new heals will feature some element that benefits your allies and not much yourself.
I say this because it’s very unlikely that the gold earned in pvp will outshine pve farming..
then we need to make it clear to them that, gold rewards in sPvP should be significantly, insanely much higher than the PvE farming counter part.
it’s unrealistic to expect that. which is why they should not have deleted glory.
A lot of this stuff is ambiguous and could go either way. From a design perspective, it seems the removal of glory will cause more problems than it solves. This could all go very wrong very quickly if things are incorrectly implemented: pvp players may feel forced to participate in pve gold farming to obtain rewards in pvp. I say this because it’s very unlikely that the gold earned in pvp will outshine pve farming.
The removal of ranks could work, it just depends what comes in its place.
rank is measurement of how much you grind. so yes.
Seems pretty ok.
There’s not much to go on, as it’s the implementation that will matter.
How much gold should we expect?
What will replace rank?
If everything can be bought with gold, now does that mean we will have people with credit card in hand buying armors that previously were signs of prestige?
If that’s the case, will “prestige” be moved to rewards tied to leaderboard/ladder position or divisions?
It all sounds like it could be catering to pve gold farmers, where are the exclusive rewards for skilled players?
There are too many currencies in this game, that’s for sure, but I don’t think that the pvp-based glory was a problem. It smells of wanting to monetize pvp through gems.
(edited by milo.6942)
God please NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
The facts: The players need know how to count enemys dodges and CD’s, this split noobs from ‘pro’ players and makes the game more fun to be learned.
it’s pretty funny that Jon’s point #1 states exactly the opposite
Thanks for your reply Jon. I agree with many points you raised. I would encourage you to revisit these mechanics that cause endurance to fluctuate so much—not just because they seem to be a barrier to showing endurance both technically and in completeness of information to players, but also because random dodging is a detrimental game mechanic.
There is an enormous lack of information in this game. There is simply too much that is unknown to players. I feel like anet is favoring easy-to-use builds because it’s unrealistic to expect players to react, the game does everything in its power to not tell you any specific details about your opponents. It is a bad way to build a pvp game.
You might as well bring GW1 cast bars into GW2!!!!
which, coincidentally, is also a good idea.
Paze, many people are in your situation. Some people like the game for what it is, some people are in denial because they bought too many gems to leave the game now so they keep playing. Ultimately, it seems like the game isn’t really for you. I stopped playing as well. The game doesn’t know how to give a sense of direction and good rewards in pve. Try the game out and listen to others posting that say they like the game, maybe you will find something you like. But if you don’t, then just know it’s a pretty common complaint from people that stopped playing.
Echoing other similar responses, this game has too much that is hidden. Consider the large amount of traits (some of which can be very important) with cds that sometimes are modified by other traits, skill cds (that can also be modified by traits), and let’s not forget the elephant in the room that rarely gets mentioned: cast bars. Recognizing skill animations—for various reason—really doesn’t work in practice. Add on top of all this an often fluctuating amount of adrenaline for a series of invulnerability frames and you have a single conclusion: too much garbage.
I would say that has more to do with the maturity of the playerbase rather than the females vs males itself. Mature people don’t really make a difference between a male player and a female player.
lol, right.
Way too much to talk about in your post i will only hit some major points (ppl have got to keep is smaller there views or your just simply talking to ppl who want to hear there own point of view over and over).
GW1 was a major farming game for the top end looks to the point where every one had a bot and Anet allowed them to use these bots.If you want things done right you must wait so if you want the dragon to be a 1 day event like some of the LS can be then its going to take some time. Just look at how long it took for one dragon PS that not completed yet took about what 5 years ish?
The LS as is are not bad in that there is new content for ppl to play its just most ppl do not think about story when it comes to these games that just how mmorpg players are.
Over all your talking about one small part of the game GW2 is a great deal more then just the LS and they add in more things then just related to the LS. GW2 in comparison to other mmorpg is one of the most rewarding due to personal loot and nodes you just do not get that in other mmorpgs.
I don’t even know what you’re saying, but your bot assertion was a real gem. Also, I’d much rather grind for cosmetics than grind for BiS like now.
Your assessment is probably correct. Putting a barrier to class reroll would make poor balance less of an issue. But that is really a bad way to go for pvp.
This is I’d say the biggest mistake in GW2 PvE. Gear should not have been role defining. The armor should have been just base armor, weapon base damage and trinkets shouldn’t exist. Traits, utilities and weapon type should have been the trait defining tools given to the players. Once that is done, the player dps and sustainability would be much less variable, allowing ANet to much better tune the PvE encounter difficulty to the point players will feel forced to make use of some really dedicated control and support roles.
I made a thread in the Suggestions forum making exactly the same argument for removing stats from gear, but got shouted down by people who think that this is the only way MMOs can work.
And that’s one of the biggest problems the game faces. It’s a victim of the vox populi.
Most people have no imagination and like things to remain constant. These people can’t understand the elegance behind such a system because all they’ve ever known are systems like the current one.
And of course you can buy armor with gem-to-gold…
One thing I miss about Dragons? Dragons.
LOLOLOL
This seems like the perfect time to dump the dragons and scarlett and move back to the GW1 prophecies lore.
I’ll even help you write it ANet!
The Charr capture scarlett but refuse to hand her over to the humans. This causes war to once again break out between the two races and much bloodshed ensues. The humans start to lose so they invoke the power of their once powerful gods, who duly come to their aid and turn the tide of battle in their favor.
Fearing defeat the Charr side with the once mighty Dhuum, freeing him from his dormant state but at great cost. Dhuum and his minions turn on the Charr and proceed to lay waste to the land of Tyria, threatening human and Charr alike.
…and so on.
Meanwhile the Asura, Slyvari, and Norn all catch a mysterious disease and die.
Still a better lore story than gw2.
It’s actually a bit rediculous considering how good the pvp gameplay is in this game compared to any other MMO. I guess the balance and conquest game mode really drove everyone off (although I personally do like conquest). Lack of progression and rewards probably had something to do with it as well.
I think there were a lot of reasons, the biggest being that the game simply released too soon from a development standpoint. But yes, the gameplay beats other games silly.
One reason that I think a lot of people overlook is the “no leveling or gear required” part. It was brilliant, one of the best ideas of the game, and yet the fact is that a lot of people like being carried by their gear. I think that for some people, trying PvP and knowing they were on equal footing—yet getting facerolled—was a bit too uncomfortable. I’ve been doing some WvW recently, and two things stick out to me: 1. how absurdly bad everyone is, and 2. how absurdly powerful gear is.
My theory is that those two observations go hand-in-hand. And yet, it’s popular.
- If you win, you’re skilled
- If you lose, enemy had better gear
- Profit
So let’s summarize then:
- Few skills
- Skills have little synergy
- Can’t change weapon skills
- Build based on gear stats
- DPS is king
- Mobs are stupid
did I miss anything
Hope some companies see the potential in all this mess though.
Please… please someone make a stripped down pvp game with flexible role-based rpg combat and take best aspects of gw series and leave out the kitten… please
Don’t blow your entire rotation when you first see your enemy, or immobilize them first. The combat in this game is already too fast as it is in many cases, we don’t need an actual visual trigger to tell people to FIRE EVERYTHING.
you are not considering the situation thoroughly. if you know your enemy can see your endurance, then you will be more careful with the dodges, and your enemy will want to wait until you have no adren to use a big move. It will slow combat down, not make it faster. Sure it will cause moments where you scream in ts to target that guy because he has no dodges left, but that is how it should be: slower pace and waiting for enemy to make mistake, then slam them in a frenzy.
The unpredictability of dodges is part of the fun. Having to set up a burst and force your opponent to burn up their evades before initiating it makes for far more interesting gameplay than having a visual cue that tells you you’re free to faceroll away.
by that same token, you can play with your enemy’s mind by not using up your adrenaline, and make your opponent wait for too long to use their burst. more information available does not mean the game is “dumbed down”. if anything, it’s exactly the unpredictable nature of evades and dodges that makes the best option usually “mash your buttons and pray”.
Mister Fluffkin, that is more accurately called recognition, or prestige, not rewards or progression. The person I responded to said:
it has nothing to do with recognition
people need progress – thats all
Rewards and prestige are 2 separate concepts. I was saying rewards are not necessary, but the problem is the game is not fun & does not promote skillful play. I do agree that gw2’s prestige currency (rank) is very very poorly thought out.
Admit, you´re kinda right with this. And a pretty good point!
Maybe the real question is, if we need more prestige in PvP, not rewards?
Yes.
- more reliable prestige (rank that is actually worth something)
- more information during fights (e.g. cast bar) and less random crap
- nerf the cheese from orbit with a nuclear cannon (and obviously split skills from pve—retain same functionality but adjust numbers.)
then you will have better foundation to build pvp and then we can talk about adding rewards for all the lost souls that temporarily pass through pvp area once they are bored of living story crap. however, the way things are going now, only the first thing is remotely, possibly coming, maybe.
dodge is bad mechanic for pvp
I agree we should take out all skill requirements in this game and make it entirely based off rotations.
dodge creates a black hole of counterplay and forces the game to increase the total overall damage needed to kill players. it contributes nothing to the game and is poorly implemented. it should never have existed, or adren should be displayed to enemies, or there should not be any way to get more than 2 dodges. one of these three options.
also, there should be skill castbar & endurance bar. this game is chaos and complete lack of information.
I think he was saying he has to re-authenticate every time he visits the site in order to switch to english version.
(edited by milo.6942)
Mister Fluffkin, that is more accurately called recognition, or prestige, not rewards or progression. The person I responded to said:
it has nothing to do with recognition
people need progress – thats all
Rewards and prestige are 2 separate concepts. I was saying rewards are not necessary, but the problem is the game is not fun & does not promote skillful play. I do agree that gw2’s prestige currency (rank) is very very poorly thought out.
it has nothing to do with recognition
people need progress – thats all
in leage of legends you have progress in your account lvl and champions you can buy over the time and even in fight you have progress while lvling your champ and buy items from vendor
wow has progression with armory, archievements and so on and most people play arena, rated bg or even bg to get their gladiator armors every tier again
other games same – no game is just “playing”
and to get a healthy population in game you have to give incentives or somehow progress
we have in gw2 the ranking (wolve tiger ….) but this looks like its not enough cause people dont come to pvp or even care for it and we all know we lose a lot playerz and NO its not enough jsut to paly the game cause this we had a year now and no people came – people left
and wtf has this to do with pve?
Progression is fine. It is not bad. But you can still have successful pvp game without rewards. GW1 (before zkeys) and many fps game are like this. It is fact. But here we do already have progression (even if not a great one), but population has tanked. Your logic is like a pve grinder that wants more and more rewards to feel like he is playing a good game. You are not a real pvper, so it is natural that your conclusions are that game needs more rewards.
The worst part is that we had options to turn off every part of the UI in GW1 individually.
I’m not sure why so many basic features from GW1 got left out completely in GW2.
Because they are in fact not anything alike at all.
By the way, if pve enemies used the same skills that players used, it would help even out pve/pvp balance.
And how do you suggest they earn money if they are giving everything for free in the game?
town clothes
No Milo your are wrong. Most people left because its not rewarding, no incentives and no targets to go for.
Just be in a leaderbaord to be there is not enough and noone play just to play it because thats why it get boring ya know?
That is argument of pve grinder.
This game is balanced on pve and wvw, nuff said.
They’ve stated many times before that they’ll be showing what kind of reward systems they’re going to implement this December which is a arms reach away. Why are you still QQ’ing? Just lost a tPvP game i’m assuming.
Rewards are fine for pve players that want to do something different for a while, but it is wrong direction (again). True PvP players don’t especially care about rewards, I mean it is nice, but it is not primary concern. People haven’t left gw2 pvp because it’s not rewarding, they left because it wasn’t fun.
Exectly!! completely agree with you.
I miss those times alot. It was so fun to do daily GvG.
Best match i ever had was my guild ranked top 100 vs a top 5 guild. Both balanced team build. Both fighting without really killing anything. I hear leader calling a spike on the enemy mesmer over teamspeak, first thing i’m thinking as interupt ranger, find the monk!! found him in time and 1 second after spike… D-shot and got it!! WoH down for 20 second. I scream in my mic about this matchchanging happening. Our leader understood what needed to happen. Unleash hell upon the enemy. The next 30 seconds the match was decided and we rolled the enemy. Spltting was of no use and we countered that easily. Flag control was in our hands and we just kept splitting to kill npc’s and fight it out till VoD.
After the match we PMed the enemy team and guested them to our guildhall. Just chatting and talking tactics while observing the match.1 skill could mess up a match or make the match if cast on the right time, on the right target in the right location.
To bad we don’t have halls and this kind of PvP in gw2:(
But i’ll never forget!
that made me miss gvg even more… thanks jerk
I feel custom arenas are more complicated than you understand – it doesn’t build off of the existing GW2 PvE / WvW Game Engine and is in a kind of separate entity that is never ‘off’. That’s why it was such a developmental hurdle. To be honest, the number of players on the server and the size of the virtual landscape are not good measures of cost either.
Everyone’s entitled to their own interpretations, though!
We can make a closer comparison with hotjoin servers. Hundreds of those for free, but the minute we want to play vs our friends they charge us. Again, very short-sighted of them. Sure, it added extra features that are interesting to play around with, and that’s very nice for some hardcore players that want to adjust the game, but where is the basic option to just play vs a rival team on a map you choose for -gasp- free?
- Lock an empty hotjoin server
- Put 2 teams in it
- When match is over release server back to public
Wow. That’s gonna be expensive to pull off. I bet tourny system is just as costly.
It’s not about cost here, they’re making a quick buck at the expense of player goodwill.
Both the posts above me are way off the mark.
@Zaloias
“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Not to mention money from pve is a pretty safe bet. It’s exactly pvp that is difficult to monetize correctly. This wasn’t some devious plan to make money, they just preferred making a quick buck with custom arenas rather than seeing it as a long term investment that would pay for itself with esports advertisers and more box sales. If anything, it reveals how little faith the company had internally for any serious pvp.
@Chaith
Terrible cost assessment. Just think of all the massive areas in pve and wvw that host hundreds of players at a time, but suddenly 10 players in a pvp arena is cause for a monthly fee? Sure, for suckers maybe. PvP in this game is funded on a dribble of cash from anet headquarters and expected to deliver profits immediately because they don’t believe it has any future beyond what people pay for $$$ to gems conversion.
Fundamentally, gw2 plays more like an fps than an rpg. Every man for himself. Also, it lacks a great deal of depth. In gw1 there were many dimensions to fights, with interrupts, pressure damage, spike damage, hexes (with each of the popular mesmer hexes such as diversion, shame and backfire each individually altering gameplay drastically and adding further dimensions), conditions, split tactics, flag management, energy management, base defense, positioning, line backing… The reason there are so many balance problems now in gw2 is because the only dimensions that really count are raw damage and map control, with all of the classes rated by players in terms of how fast they can kill someone or how long they can last before being killed. There are not enough “larger” variable to make things interesting.
Maybe it’s just they have more artists than programmers
the massive amount of lame skills
Guild Wars franchise started as a pvp-focused title and there is no evidence either way whether the game was created based on an existing lore, or if the lore was created to support pvp features they envisioned. It’s much more likely the lore was created to fill in the gaps after the game already had a gvg concept. Very strange to name a game with something that seems to scream pvp, and then indeed have a strong focus on pvp, but then we should believe the game name is from an obscure lore event? Not likely.
lol the dev reply was removed
I know this, there have been so many threads about this on these forums that ANet has to realize that there is a problem.
That’s debatable.
50% reduction would be fine
150% reduction would be a start
is that damage then?
My list:
- Downed state in PVP zones. Adds nothing to the game but detracts a lot. It’s annoying, disrupts the flow of combat, introduces imbalance and farcical rally situations.
- Fixed weapon skills. Far too restrictive for me, pigeonholes weapons into roles & can causes whole weapons to be ruined because of just 1 bad skill.
- No resource system. Has caused GW2 combat to be all about spamming skills/dodges.
- Removal of skill capturing (signet of capture). One of the best & debatably most game-defining features of the first game, I cannot fathom the logic of why it was elided from GW2.
- Addition of ascended gear after release. Massive PR blunder. Pushed the game into a grind corner it has yet to escape from.
1 Wrong, encourages not dying in big fights. Rallying is an important part of PVP.
2 I see what you mean but current system allows ANet to more tightly control skill design
3 No, potion spam anyone? Remember grind farming for potion mats in other games just so you could PVP or Raid for a few hours.
4 Agree, I liked skill capture, but really, doesn’t fit current skill model so I manage
5 Agree, bad callYou guys casually mention all sorts of features where you don’t appreciate much of the cleverness behind their design. Many of the things people want to remove are cornerstones of a larger concept.
- Yes, rally is important in pvp because there are no viable support roles. Rally also makes dying in large fights inconsequential often.
- If by “tightly control skill design” you mean “skills are pretty boring” then I agree.
- Potions did not exist in GW1.
Obligatory mention of GW1 GvG
I quit gw2 a long time ago, but am considering trying things out again. Just for dev consideration, I will explain what I thought when I read about new fractal update coming tomorrow.
- That sounds interesting, I might finally log back in to check that out. I always liked fractals. Sounds cool that the fractal level is shared between all chars, so I can get my alts in on the action. Sounds like some new loot and rewards and that looks good too, maybe I can get rewarded finally for doing something I like.
- …but now that I think about it, I really don’t like the combat, so I don’t think I will log in after all.
I have this nebulous dislike for gw2 combat which is hard for me to describe. I think it is based on 2 things: the skills and a lack of combat organization.
What follows are some statements that readers may not agree with, but these are as close as I can come to my reasons for not playing gw2. It’s not about rewards or leveling or cosmetics or legendaries or map completion or living story or minigames or whatever else other people do in game, for me it is simply about the core game. I can live with a lack of features and game modes and other things, but I can’t play a game that is fundamentally unfun, no matter how much icing is on top. Here goes in no particular order:
- Weapon sets in general are boring: the skills often lack synergy and are unchangeable
- Depending on the profession, the elites could be borderline useless. Regardless, the long cooldowns are unfun.
- Utility skills are sometimes interesting and sometimes have synergy, but there are many that are boring too.
- Trash mobs are boring to kill because both my skills are mostly boring and have a set rotation no matter the enemy, and/or the enemies themselves are not especially interesting.
- Support and control roles are huge jokes. There is little point in even experimenting with that.
- Without any needed roles, or a new trinity of some sort, it feels like I can’t stand out for skillful play. What I mean is, no one will remember you for saving their kitten .
So to summarize my main problems with this game: Skills are generally uninteresting and often on long cooldowns, and there is little opportunity to have meaningful teamplay.
What could help is the addition of new mechanics that skills could interact with. The game is quite shallow and there are not enough moving pieces to have interesting fights.
Let’s hope Anet listens.
ahh… young naiveté