Guild Wars 2

lighter.2708:

ronpierce.2760:

lighter.2708:

ronpierce.2760:

lighter.2708:

You will still get reckt by thieves on shiro tho.

Depends if they do a huge decrease in cast times. hammer Mallyx does okay against thief, so if you run Shiro/Mallyx, with SS Hammer, you’ll be fine (ish). I’d imagine it’d end up being a pretty decent fight.

telegraphed slow hitting range weapon has no chance against thief, only thing i see has a chance against thieves is sword and shiro stance.

Last Beta I could kill thieves. I even had DP thieves thinking Rev was somehow OP. If you use Mallyx (UA especially) correctly and now with a buffed hammer damage, it’s really no issue. Save your projectile wall for when they swap to short bow and have UA on hand for when they swap, you can toy with them really hard. I did it a lot even last beta where the class was terrible.

Mesmers are the real problem…

the thieves you met must be incredible bad, or just have no idea what is a revenant.
5 is incredible telegraphed, wall is nothing for any melee set, 3 is incredible telegraphed, 2 is incredible telegraphed and closer = less damage.
im not sure how you can hit anything other then auto attack against a capable thief.

By not being bad. Played Crusader build with lots of extra means of crit. Using UA properly simply made it hard for them to set up attacks properly. Get in a few lucky #2s and ping them down with #1, they did fairly easily simply because they were squishy. I played some decent players too. I wouldn’t talk about it if it was a random poor player. I also had my fair share of losses, and SD was really hard for me. I couldn’t even pretend to get a Mesmer close to death (best against a very good Mesmer was 25%). The new stuff will change a lot.

lighter.2708:

ronpierce.2760:

lighter.2708:

You will still get reckt by thieves on shiro tho.

Depends if they do a huge decrease in cast times. hammer Mallyx does okay against thief, so if you run Shiro/Mallyx, with SS Hammer, you’ll be fine (ish). I’d imagine it’d end up being a pretty decent fight.

telegraphed slow hitting range weapon has no chance against thief, only thing i see has a chance against thieves is sword and shiro stance.

Last Beta I could kill thieves. I even had DP thieves thinking Rev was somehow OP. If you use Mallyx (UA especially) correctly and now with a buffed hammer damage, it’s really no issue. Save your projectile wall for when they swap to short bow and have UA on hand for when they swap, you can toy with them really hard. I did it a lot even last beta where the class was terrible.

Mesmers are the real problem…

Lasts less time than Blurred Frenzy, which doesn’t prevent capture. I’m sure they just went that route in the end. Hopefully it does add some defensive qualities though because, lets be honest, Revenant needs it atm.

lighter.2708:

You will still get reckt by thieves on shiro tho.

Depends if they do a huge decrease in cast times. hammer Mallyx does okay against thief, so if you run Shiro/Mallyx, with SS Hammer, you’ll be fine (ish). I’d imagine it’d end up being a pretty decent fight.

Sylent.3165:

ronpierce.2760:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

<3 I got a good laugh at the title. Glad you are looking forward too it.

Thank you for listening to us.
Any news on energy cost on weaponskills? They did not seem to have it from the stream

I had an internal command on to not use energy/recharge probably. Weapon skills cost energy.

I still think it needs to be reduced, or allow swapping legends to just be 100 (which currently feels like a 50% cap anyways, because you rarely have time to sit and build it up in a real pvp scenario). Right now using a 50 energy utility after a swap just feels really really limiting and harsh. Just some food for thought. I’d be more comfortable with energy costs on weapons if we had more energy after a swap to even use.

I didn’t notice, but do auto attacks restore energy?

AFAIK they do not. We actually don’t have any form of energy manipulation other than a base-line regeneration rate and swapping.

(Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.)

makagoto.1204:

Scorchongw.8495:

Not sure if you noticed, but each time a Revenant swaps legends, there is a 10sec cooldown. Plus Jalis elite is a 3second(?) cast time, very easy to block the use of it via interrupts.

ah ok, i thought in the stream it has been said the legend swap cd has been removed or can be traited to become instantaneous.

The trait that makes it “instantaneous” means it doesn’t have a cast time or build up. Doesn’t mess with the 10 sec cooldown.

This seems fairly accurate for a Henry post… This is not the Henry I thought I knew… For shame, all is vain. :/

It’s only a troll in terms of what it says as fluff and who it is, but that’s pretty much right…

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

<3 I got a good laugh at the title. Glad you are looking forward too it.

Thank you for listening to us.
Any news on energy cost on weaponskills? They did not seem to have it from the stream

I had an internal command on to not use energy/recharge probably. Weapon skills cost energy.

I still think it needs to be reduced, or allow swapping legends to just be 100 (which currently feels like a 50% cap anyways, because you rarely have time to sit and build it up in a real pvp scenario). Right now using a 50 energy utility after a swap just feels really really limiting and harsh. Just some food for thought. I’d be more comfortable with energy costs on weapons if we had more energy after a swap to even use.

Kidel.2057:

Just a note. Weapons are not limited at all. Hammer is the same with every legend and has almost 0 sinergyvwith them, except some shared looks with Jalis. Same for mace and, I guess, swords.
Also staff is not the Ventari weapon, but the healing one, and Ventari happens to be the healing legend. Similar to Guardian’s staff, just melee.

I used mace with Jalis just fine, and hammer with mallyx. No prob

To be honest I find hammer being better then staff on ventari, and staff being very good on jalis. Rotating hammers are good on melee range, and tank loves healing.

The problem isn’t within tank and Supporting weapons, as both of those are very “utility-bound” and trait-bound types, where conditions and weapon damage isn’t necessarily important, you use them more for control and their defensive values, and what fits your style.

The problem is for DPS and Condition damage (the primary roles of the game, especially PVP as a major focus) where coefficients and general condition availability is very much determined by your weapons, and if a weapon simply doesn’t have the coefficients or conditions, it’s not usable for those roles.

There are plenty of examples of weapon sets that do both effectively and instead of relying on hard-design, they have low base-high scaling coefficients to let stats determine your role, rather than just your weapon set. (See: Elementalists, Grenades, Warrior Swords and Longbow.)

As it stands, with the given coefficients, you won’t see a “dps” hammer or staff, and especially no condition-based anything other than mace because it just isn’t possible to do. That’s the main way that weapons are rigid and placed into roles. Their ties to a specific legend is just a subfactor of the same issue.

Again, yeah, it’s not nearly as prevalent in Support and tanking. Staff v Hammer is also a bad example to relate, tanks and healers typically both take toughness and healing power, and both weapons are based on CC, damage avoidance and utility.

It’s easy. Revenant is Shiro’s clever idea that he tricked Rytlock into thinking was his own plan. Once he’s channeled and plans to slowly take over the minds of all the Revenants and will raise an army of Shiro Revenants and take over the world. Good luck “heroes”, soon you will be helping him take over the world.

Burning damage doesn’t necessarily need nerfed. It needs its dmg halved and durations doubled. Burning should be closer to 1:2 of bleeding and not 1:4. This much of a burst is counter to the design of conditions and removal. Sorry but it’s true. There’s a reason why bleeding isn’t very scary, it’s because you can realistically remove much of it’s damage and it doesn’t force you to “blow” condi removals just to survive. Technically speaking, Burning isn’t a noob-weeder, as it forces people to have to blow condition removals rather than playing it by ear and remove them at smart times because you just can’t sit with stacks of burning on you.

I just wanted to note in this, I will be updating it with the coming Shiro information, but I’ll likely wait until I fully test it myself.

However, I wanted to make note to the Devs, having a DPS legend does not remotely fix the issue of rigid weapons, and I sincerely feel this needs to be looked at.

Daerian.6523:

<Sadpanda> I mistook that second white line as bowstring. Here goes my “blind archer” archetype ;-)
Thanks anyway for answers!

I wish. I would t give up hope. A strong ranged DPS weapon that isn’t intended for CC/Utility (like the hammer) is likely in the running for Revenants next Elite Specialization. Hopefully they give one semi normal weapon because longbow on Revenant would be my kitten.

I wouldn’t be me if I came to tell you, yes, many of us want it. Keep putting up the good fight… It’s all I’m waiting for until I can play this game seriously again.

But that’s a sword. :S

1.) I’d just change Unyielding to the Invulnerability and put something else on Banish. That’s fix UA all around, and would need no special rules attached to it.

2.) I disagree. It’s already strong and making it triggerablenadds adds to the Energy starvation issues, adds needless complexity and makes an already powerful skill less predictable and frustrating, plus, it would prevent you from chaining it for mobility or new area denial zones.

3. Wouldn’t be necessary if you didn’t do the above.

4. Fine either way. Wouldn’t mind a slight baseline reduction in cast time, honestly.

5. Yeah, all upkeep skills atm feel janky… Gotta love going to cast your heal and your energy bottoming-out and canceling it…

Yep, which is why I haven’t taken this all that seriously. Unholy Santuary MM clerics is a good amount better.

Kharr.5746:

ronpierce.2760:

phokus.8934:

Scrap energy on the weapons and use cooldowns and keep energy associated with utilities.

This would be my choice. Energy is already spread thin as it is, it doesn’t need to be made worse. This is more the route that needs to be taken.

Personally, I thought the energy was fine. The entire point is to manage it rather than spamming skills mindlessly.

It’s not about mindless. Right now, with a whole line using energy, you step on your feet far too easily (such as a swap -> forced engagement). You can blow 50 energy and kill your whole bar immediately. Would be like adding Initiative costs to all the tied utilities. It’d drive people nuts.

Perhaps, however if they just did 100 energy swaps instead of 50% is be fine with leaving it. As is, though, it just feels bad most times.

You realize 300 toughness and 20% condi msg reduction isn’t very huge right? It’s okay but it’s not the reason a necromancer was 1v2ing alone…

fluidmonolith.3584:

ronpierce.2760:

makagoto.1204:

What i miss the most in the Invocation line is some sort of energy enhancement, like all skills use 15% less energy for gm or degen skills degen 1 pip less or cd reduced by 20%.
Or simply all weapon skills generate 2 energy per hit. We simply have to many traits that generate health by some sort of action across all those traits, but nothing to help with energy management.

You’re right! That’s a topic I wanted to bring up, but totally forgot. I didn’t want a very basic 20% more boost because then that would likely require more artwork, due to how they display it. Maybe a proc style energy regain, energy reduction costs and so far, so yeah, like making auto attacks regenerate Energy would be good.

Only problem with it, and maybe why they didn’t add it, is that it might make Invocatikn feel 100% mandatory (as if it didn’t already).

Invocation is really important because of the grandmaster minor Empty Vessel. If this was made a major GM trait, and the increased energy regen trait was also GM … well, then Invocation would still be mandatory, but perhaps no more mandatory than it is already.

Yes, that’s no defense though. I get worried when a specific line becomes mandatory, and buffing it feels like a bad idea. I mean for all intents and purposes, Shiro tree COULD have this functionality as an assault tree, and give it a unique reason to use that line for other types of builds. I’ll reserve judgement.

makagoto.1204:

What i miss the most in the Invocation line is some sort of energy enhancement, like all skills use 15% less energy for gm or degen skills degen 1 pip less or cd reduced by 20%.
Or simply all weapon skills generate 2 energy per hit. We simply have to many traits that generate health by some sort of action across all those traits, but nothing to help with energy management.

You’re right! That’s a topic I wanted to bring up, but totally forgot. I didn’t want a very basic 20% more boost because then that would likely require more artwork, due to how they display it. Maybe a proc style energy regain, energy reduction costs and so far, so yeah, like making auto attacks regenerate Energy would be good.

Only problem with it, and maybe why they didn’t add it, is that it might make Invocatikn feel 100% mandatory (as if it didn’t already).

Here’s mine. I had to do it in preview mode because I didn’t have the charges at the time I decided to go this route.

phokus.8934:

Scrap energy on the weapons and use cooldowns and keep energy associated with utilities.

This would be my choice. Energy is already spread thin as it is, it doesn’t need to be made worse. This is more the route that needs to be taken.

Lyrsen.6702:

Neeja.4579

Your thread gives too many suggestions. While I agree with many of them, some are a bit too early. I’d wait the end of the week with Shiro reveal. It will probably get most of the fury/might and precision related stuff.

I made those suggestions before we knew Shiro would be revealed on Friday, we’ll see how it goes; I may edit my post. Thank you for the feed back as well!

p.s. sorry for the small hijack ronpierce.

Yeah, don’t mention it. :P

Hey everyone. I just wanted to say, I feel like many of the traits are a bit weak and look like they’ve been balanced around the old system, prior to merges and general buffs, leaving many feeling uninspired and leaving much to be desired. So, lets help out and if you have a cool idea for a Revenant-fitting trait, or a change to an existing one, throw it out there!

I’ll throw a few out there, as well.

Invocation Line (The “Class” line.)
Prevalent Presence (GM, NEW): Invoking a Legend triggers one of that legend’s spells. (No ICD, each would simply be triggerable once every 20 seconds with only two swapping Legends.)
Jalis – Inspiring Reinforcements
Mallyx – Pain absorption.
Ventari – (Doesn’t require tablet, circles around you.) Natural Harmony.

Invigorating Howl (Master, rework): Heal yourself and nearby allies for 15(.02) health per energy spent. 360 radius. (No ICD)

Fierce Infusion (Adept, Change): Remove ICD. Gain 8 seconds of fury when using a heal.

Cleansing Channel (Adept, Change): Increase to 2 removed Conditions on legend swap. (Brings it in line with Brawler’s recovery, remains less persistent as it’s a slower swap cycle.)

Corruption Line
Maniacal Persistence (GM, change): Increase to 3% increased critical hit per stack (one per second). Landing a critical hit removes a single stack of Maniacal Persistence.

Diabolic Inferno (GM, rework): Landing a Critical hit with an energy-costing skill (no auto attack spam!) applies a 2 second burn. (Shouldn’t require a ICD not affecting Autos.)

Yearning Empowerment (GM minor, additon): In addition to increased torment duration, increase critical hit against tormented enemies by 10%.

Frigid Precision (Master, Addition): Add a small damage source to the proc, reduce CD to 8 seconds.

Rampant Vex (Adept minor, change): Increase chance to 66% on critical hit, for the tree to work better for non-Mace builds.

Retribution Line
Empowering Vengeance (GM, addition): Gain 2 might for 8 seconds, and extend the duration of retaliation by 1 second when struck while under the effects of Retaliation. (1 sec ICD).

Feel free to add your own, comment, and discuss!

You should include hammer 3. It’s not intuitive as defense, but if you’re locked into a immobilize you can’t clear, using it at a distance will save you a great deal of damage.

I had a Crusader (Or celestial) build that ran Hammer/Jalis/Mallyx. Very sturdy against melee due to Unyielding Anguish keeping melee away and stability to prevent lockdown bursts. Unfortunately, the big issue I’m having with Revenant is that it’s so base-line squishy with little sustainable defenses that while you can teleport melee attackers all around the world and block projectiles 45% of the time, there’s little to save you from non-projectile Ranged dps, so a good staff ele, Mesmers, etc have a really easy time with you.

skullfaerie.7203:

Lordrosicky.5813:

skullfaerie.7203:

Ummm.. you’re queued for ranked, with preference set to stronghold only. Stronghold is only available in unranked. So, pic says what about Stronghold exactly? xD

Not true. Get your facts right

Yawn.

“We’ll also be opening up our new Player vs. Player game mode, Stronghold, to all players who play in the queue for Unranked PvP over the course of the weekend.”
link

Burn really is powerful in this meta…

Bhawb.7408:

manveruppd.7601:

If it weren’t for this stupid interaction, Lich Form would actually be a better elite for a minionmancer than Golem!

Not even a tiny bit close to being somewhat remotely plausible.

IIRC it is a bug with our transforms that ANet is aware of but simply hasn’t dealt with yet.

According to Karl, it’s not a bug. He wouldn’t give me any further details on their plans or thoughts on it, he wasn’t prepared to give a 1 on 1 statement. This was 3 months ago.

Im sure mobility is tied to Shiro.

That said, there are steps they could take to help other build mobility such as lowering the cooldowns of axe 4 and taking it a ground target attack that functions similarly to theif Short Bow 5, but increase the projectile speed.

I’m in support of these, especially the change to Punishing Sweep. That’d be a great way to handle the skillful play without making it an otherwise terrible skill (as it is now). Weakness duration could be extended too.

Manifibel.8420:

I like your suggestion for Ventari.
My first though when trying it, was. “Why does my #6 skill have a cast time?” Its so annoying that you stop attacking for 0.5 seconds to move it, should be instant cast if its left as it is now.
Your idea of having it around the revenant all the time sounds good, and ground target on the utility and elite great aswell. But dont have it stuck on a person like Orianna’s ball from League of Legends. Would be annoying to target a person to have it stick to them, or it automatically sticks to a person who was affected by any ground target skill.

Oh, no. At least, in my head, I was thinking to where it follows the revenant, like she is holding her own ball, then have it teleport to the location of said active skill, then teleport back to the caster after it executes. Like ground target, it spawns to the location and does its thing after a 1-1.5 second wind up, then it goes back to the Revenant. It’s not as “cool” and controlled, but it is far more realistic toward the gameplay in GW2. Of course this is only one way to handle it and is admittedly not as fun or unique, but I fear the current form just isn’t likely to be useful for very long and it’s very clear that they were trying to Minic that Legend in LoL. Unfortunately, I just don’t feel like that gameplay copies over well to GW2. It’s just a bit too hectic…

I’d rather them make multi-faceted Weapons (much like grenades, elements list skills and Warrior sword/longbow) so one weapon can do many things based on your chosen stats, ie low bases but high scaling factors, so that skills function differently or more superiorly in areas based on your build. I enjoy having a new 1 weapon class BUT the weapons need to be far less rigid and need to not cost Energy.

So, after all of my testing (mostly pvp), I wanted to share a build I had the “most” success with so far. I was running a Hammer build actually, Jalis/Mallyx and Celestial or Crusaders (both work but have different benefits). Pack runes. Intel/Leeching with crusaders, Leeching/Doom with celestial (or you can continue to run Intel.)
Traits were: Corruption 2, 1, 2. Retribution 2, 1, 3 Invocation 2, 3, 1.

The idea is simple, against range you will strategically keep up your projectile defenses and hammer 1/2. Burn boons with Banish Enchantment as you see fit. Ranged without projectiles eat this build but I haven’t found a way around this for any revenant build.

Against melee, you will conserve energy to use Unyielding Anguish as frequently as you can (that you need it) to ensure maximum free-casting time. Before healing, try to use Brick Road, and use it often upon entering the form just to give you some stability. If the enemy is heavy melee, with stability it is sometimes a good idea to use Drop the Hammer. Either drop another road or taunt before going back to Demon form. From there it is much the same, juggle UA and Banish, and burst with Hammer 2.

Hammer 3 is frequently useless, but there have been moments where it’s displacement has come in handy while immobilized, so use it far away if you must avoid damage while immobilized. Never use it for offense, to me, it’s a waste of resources. Never try to Drop the hammer on a Ranged foe. I have not found a suitable time to use Jalis Hammers, either, nor the elite as it activates too slowly. You’re better off kiting and using stability or taunt for defenses and displacing enemies otherwise.

Give it a try!

Would love any and all feedback on the build, or my original post, including criticism, extensions or general agreement. Thanks!

Dastion.3106:

Some of the staff skills (#2 at least) spawn a small mote of mist that circles you a few times before disappearing. Doesn’t seem to do anything.

That’s the Invocation minor trait. Using energy spawns a must orb that heals allies on contact. When swapping legends it consumes any up to instantly heal the revenant.

Has a really silly 5 second ICD too. Much like everything else on revenant, unnecessarily weak, generally speaking.

Crise.9401:

Great stuff, now if only the right people happen to read this. Revenant has a lot of potential in its mechanics, however, right now I am sorry to say parts of it feel like the developers sandbox (Hey, we can do this cool thing with skills now lets put it on Revenant!).

I like new and interesting mechanics as much as the next guy, but right now I am feeling like Revenant is a class entirely built around these invisible bundles that the devs made and we as players are not really allowed to change at all. This class is the Engineer kits for utilities and a single weapon from a set and that is about it.

I had the same thought. The idea though isn’t bad, it’s unique and simple enough to work, if only it wasn’t so rigid in design. If have absolutely no problem with the general idea if, like I had said, you could change a few utilities but still within the same legend, and traits to be designed more on a level for the class as a whole. Right now, most traits are so deeply specific to their legend (as well as suggested weapon set) that the whole idea of having multiple legends barely holds any value because your weapon set will pretty much always exclude one of your legends.

The more disappointing part about most of this (to me) is this is a new build for Revenant, adding in the Ventari, and much of the skills and traits are weak and outdated as they were initially, which leaves me wondering where the new work on the old legends is, and why they didn’t update then accordingly. Seems a bit counter productive to have a beta weekend on outdated material, as feedback will never reflect the most recent version of the class. I just hope the changes are significant enough internally to address many of these pressing issues that currently will keep the class from having any real synergy within itself and any amount of customization.

Genesis.8572:

I like your feedback. Some nice summation of issues but focused on weapons, legends, and some overarching issues.

Hey, thanks! I like the base idea of the class, so I just don’t want to encourage deviating too far from the general goal. I just feel there needs to be a lot of refinement. Easily, tweaks to what exists could make it more viable (except there needs to be significant changes to weapons to make them multi-purpose). It’s for these reasons I don’t think it’s entirely necessary to add a weapon swap. Just simply make the weapon we do use more flexibly and stronger.

It’s one of the best skills revenant has for PvP. It actually allows us to heal or survive against a Marlee attacker for a second. It’s also amazing Rez security. It needs to not go through defiance, needs to be more predictable and maybe have a .5 second immobilize when it ports people (to prevent that janky shutter effect) but the skill itself is invaluable for pvp.

Exedore.6320:

By the numbers, the Jalis and Mallyx heal are each individually equivalent to heals on other professions. If you use them back-to-back, then you essentially have twice the healing of every other profession.

Except they have longer cooldowns, you have to go through two times the casting, they require energy (mostly a clunk issue) and being in the right stance at the right time, on top of very lacking general defense on the class. I wouldn’t say it’s like having two heals, it’s not that great at all, especially when one has a 1.25 cast time and the other has a 1 sec cast time.

I really hope they go the second route. The weapons are very 1:1 with legends right now, and thats not at all how it should be designed. A very unique way of handling this (but maybe too complicated in the developer’s eyes) would be to have legends add additional effects to weapons. Revenant is very specifically designed to be a multi-purpose (specifically dual-purpose) class, but due to stat restrictions (spvp) and weapon design, the class simply cannot fulfill that type.

This Thread

There… two words…

Traits
I don’t want to hit EVERY trait, but I just want to say, many traits feel WEAK. They look like they were designed for the old system before traits were merged and buffed. Compared to other classes, many traits are weak, coupled with long ICDs and many are honestly worse versions of things that already exist. Example, Nourishing Roots, 240 radius 2 regen per 3 seconds. Inspiring Banners (while even actually worse than they were) are 3 seconds of regen per 3 seconds in a 600 radius and frankly, less cumbersome to move around (as their abilities can actually be used to help mobility too). Grand Master-level traits don’t feel game-changing at ALL, and many are just weak (Diabolic Inferno, Manical Persistence, Charged Mists, Empowering Vengeance, Reflexive summon, Steadfast Rejuvination- worse healing than soothing mists). There’s just no reason for many of the traits to have the ICDs they have and are bland and weak frequently. Lots of work needs to be done here.

Bugs
Just wanted to create a quick bug list.
- Embrace the Darkness copies only 1 stack.
- Embrace the Darkness can be spammed to trigger Momentary Pacification daze.
- Momentary Pacification daze doesn’t actually work, however. Shows on bars, but doesn’t prevent casting.
- You can stow-cancel all Mallyx utilities to stack resistance with Demonic Defiance trait.
- Forced Engangement can bug and prevent untargetting entirely. Other times it doesn’t work at all. (Hectic mechanics.)

More extensive list can be found here.

Thanks!
Thanks for reading, sorry if it seems a bit critical. I enjoy the feel and visuals of the class, and overall, I see great potential. The class needs a lot to bring it in-line with post-patch classes, however, which is something I look forward to seeing.

~ Sikari

Hammer
Hammer is frustrating for me. I want to love it, and I almost kind of do… The auto attack visual is just boring… why not swing waves of mist or something?! It could have been so much more than it is. Beyond that, not very impactful. Doesn’t hold up to other ranged power weapons, honestly and is way too slow. Hammer 2 seems okay could use a 1/2 cast and a slightly faster point-to-point impact speed, as it’s very easy to miss at range (when it’s actually even strong enough to use). Hammer 3 is strange to use, and doesn’t feel worth it. It’s slow in just about every way and adds very little benefit to using it. Hammer 4 is good, honestly. It has a solid uptime, at least. Could definitely use a lower cast time and some sort of benefit to using it against melee attackers where hammer suffers greatly, right now. Hammer 5… A ground targeted cast that takes 2 seconds to cast… I just can’t, it’s so bad… It might be okay in WvW, I guess? But overall it’s just really really bad in terms of cast time. It just not necessary for a weapon with no swaps to be this slow and unimpactful.

Legends
Note: I don’t enjoy swapping to 50%. I understand it might feel like a good choice, but ultimately, in the heat of battle, more than a starting point, it feels like an Energy cap of 50, not 100, as using energy on weapons skills AND utilities rarely leaves lots of leniency other than when you’re fleeing while in combat still, which is about the only time I felt myself inching toward 100 energy. (Aka, not actually fighting, just in combat.) It feels bad to swap into certain legends and instantly be locked of all skills after using one move.

Mallyx
Mallyx is interesting, but incredibly trait-dependant. You basically can’t use it without the Demonic Defiance trait. Why would you? It’s practically the best (/one of the few) perks of even being a revenant right now… Fun heal, long cooldown, decent synergy with the skills though. Pain absorption is okay, good group utility, but loses steam in smaller fights, where other skills take priority and resistance from other utilities holds up just fine, long cast time. Banish Enchantment is amazing, would push for 1 less vulnerability on the self, but overall, great. Unyielding Anguish, I just love it so much, but I know it will get nerfed into oblivion one day. I’ll enjoy it while I can. The skill itself, not that impactful and self-crippling isn’t fun at all, but man, that displacement is AMAZING utility. and only way I can survive melee right now. Too bad my dps is all melee, too! Embrace the Darkness elite, could be okay. Should pulse a bit faster and ready up faster. Currently only copies 1 stack of conditions on you, not sure if intended but it leaves much to be desired.

Jalis
Jalis seems okay. Suffers a lot from the “can’t change utilities” syndrome. The heal is great but the cooldown is far too long. Inspiring Reinforcement is pretty good. I have to start many fights off with it so I can even move for a second, so that’s good. Forced Engagement frustrates me. I want to love it, but I can’t, it’s too often avoided, you lose so much energy that most times it literally just screws you over to use it. It’s too slow to use as a real interrupt reaction-wise, leaves much to be desired. Vengeful Hammers, I really really really dislike this skill. It’s so boring, ruins energy, and generally useless for the most part. Rite of the Great Dwarf, the cast time? Give it a cooldown, stop the PVE exploitability of the skill and make it useful in real encounters, PLEASE… It’s frustrating.

Ventari
I don’t know what to say here, anything I say will be controversial. People like leaving it behind, people want to bring it where-ever it is, people are so torn here, as am I. The closest thing I could say to fix it, is make it auto-summon on entrance and follow the revenant, move Natural Harmony (burst heal utility) to the actual healing skill and add a new skill in it’s place. Finally, have all skills be “ground targetted” and have the tablet teleport to the place chosen when activating, then return to the revenant after it is casted. This would allow the pulse heals and traits to be useful, and give the best control over it’s utility locations that I could think of. Additionally, increase the impact ranges from 240 to 360 radius (except projectile block bubble) (Note: By follow, I mean be practically attached to the character, so it has no pathing issues, not a “roaming follow”.)

continued…

Hey all, Sikari checking in on Revenant. I want to pre-face, obviously, I’m not an “expert” Revenant yet, as no one is, but I’ve done my fair bit of testing so far, tried many builds, and then did some basic comparisons, design dissecting and so on, and wanted to weigh in with a list of things I liked, disliked and things that were just broken all around.

General
Rigid Weapons
Weapons are not universal in the slightest, and not built for multi-focal gameplay. They should have a design more similar to Elementalist, Grenades, or Warrior Sword+LB, in the sense that they can be utilized differently based on stats. This may mean low base options with greatly increased scaling to ensure weapons are able to be used across the class adequately. Currently it’s very Weapon-to-Legend based, and it shows.

Very Slow
Ideally, all classes would be a bit closer to Revenant, but it’s not likely to be the case any time soon. As such, the Revenant is entirely too slow. This comes in many ways. Their mobility and “stickiness” is an issue itself, but worse of all, many cast times make the class unusable against certain classes with many fast control effects.

Easy Target
Currently, revenant feels fairly powerless against ranged attackers. Thier condition-based gap closer fails frequently, and beyond that they have little soft-CC and hard CC (that isn’t displacing the enemy further away from you). In melee, they simply don’t hold up to other heavier classes and lack the damage even when fully condition or power based (granted, lack of “dps weapon”, but this should not be the case with the class’s design, anyways). All of the above is further crippling with long response times and cast times that leaves you feeling sluggish and unable to defend yourself.

Energy
Energy is nice, but mostly for the utilities. For weapons, it just feels like a hindrance. Swapping to a new weapon and using a single skill, for example, instantly locks you out of Forced engagement which is frequently dodged, dazed (which consumes energy) and so on. It’s very easy to be Energy starved and there are no energy recovery mechanics to be found, including traits, interrupt protection (back end), and misses. Weapons using energy simply leave the class feeling clunky would be the short version of the message to convey.

Not Customizable
Weapons are tied to legends, Legends are tied to trait lines, legends have a very specific set of utilities. There just isn’t much real choice in the class, much worse than originally expected due to the rigidness of weapons and traits. Legends could really use 1-2 additional utilities to have some sort of choice, and as said, weapons must be multi-purpose for the class’s design to work.

Weapons
Staff
Staff is generally, pretty fun. As with all melee Revenant weapons, it lacks soft CC and lacks mutli-purpose, which is counter-design with the revenant. Skill 2 is an unnecessary two-part attack, easily leaving much to be desired, and even when it does work, the reward is minimal. Skill 3 feels useful and is fun to watch. Skill 4 should not self-root, and generally speaking, the cast is too long to be entirely useful. For not healing builds, the gain of health is also very low. Skill 5 is the staff’s bread and butter, lower the cooldown so we can have fun more often!

Mace+Axe
Maxe and axe. First off, the auto attack conditions just don’t really feel like they are impactful enough and the melee range, once again, is crippling for a class that simply doesn’t hold up well in face-to-face combat. Mace 2 is slow, but otherwise could be okay, I believe, if not for the insane cast time. Mace 3 feels like it wants to fill that multi-purpose role, but still doesn’t do enough to justify playing a power mace build, nor does the rest of the weapon. Could use some improvements, especially like adding a pretty strong cripple to it. Axe 4, as said before, misses often and you basically lost all of your mobility for 12 seconds. Axe 5, the pull is too small, and sometimes just doesn’t work at all.

continued…

1.) You can cancel cast-stow mallyx spells to stack resistance (caps at about 17 seconds atm).

2.) You can spam Mallyx elite to trigger the daze Salvation trait.

3.) The Daze Salvation trait doesn’t actually daze at all. It shows that it dazes, but it has no effect. (Lol)

4.) Taunt can get stuck at times, remaining permanent in effect. Distance to detarget is required.

Purple Miku.7032:

Also why are some of you ganging up on Julie Yann?

She exaggerated a little in some comments but technically everything she said is true. You really don’t need to have things like vigour/protection/aegis and whatnot provided you know when to evade/block yourself.

I just find it kind of peculiar to read her type a comment like that which is technically true, then see someone reply to her and claim it to be the stupidest thing they’ve ever read. Excuse me?

-shrugs-

Well, it was kind of a silly thing to say when you’re down to comparing the haves to the have-nots. If we were balancing Revenant toward itself, they’d might have a point, but that point is quickly lost when you’re without and someone else has a plethora of said effects.

Ideally, more classes would be slow and thoughtful like the Revenant, but that just isn’t close to the case. And making 1 more class spammy to fit in with the only 7 (8 if you wish to include Necromancer), unfortunately makes more sense than fixing the whole game in one fair swoop (already proven that they wouldn’t do). And leaving them without, well that’s not a great option either…

Quarktastic.1027:

Genesis.8572:

Dead.5829:

How about this?

How about it? Revenant critics have known about this for some time. The issue is having to trait Invocation for a stun break.

Spammable stun break. No other class can boast such a feat.

10 second cooldown (swap cooldown) and forcing a change in abilities isn’t what I’d call a “spammable stunbreak”… o.O

Just because the tooltip doesn’t show you a cooldown doesn’t mean it isn’t restricted pretty heavily…

Knighthonor.4061:

Revenant’s are the best Healers/Support in the game.

Actually, that’d be an Elementalist.

Nephrite.6954:

EsarioOne.9840:

No, this is not overpowered. It’s the only thing the class has going for it. Also, it’s not like it’s free use after the Cd is up, a Rev pilot has to carefully balance their skill usage with their energy pool. Thief initiative is currently more overpowered than revenant skill cds with the limiting pool.

Don’t be a prejudice scrub, thief initiative skills cost a load. You can’t really spam them unless you wanna die quickly.

Uh, hello, have you PLAYED revenant? o.O

Well, I wouldn’t say it’s quite THAT good. At least that’s funny.

The traits are kind of weak, if you ask me. Many feel like weaker versions of things that already exist. I could go through a list and show you traits that are almost twice as good on other classes for most of them, but I’ll spare the wall of text. The grand masters are very weak, and not at all build defining. They look like they were designed for the old system, before things got merged and buffed to high heaven.

Base damage and mobility is also terrible.