Guild Wars 2

all those nerfs were based on people in spvp crying about the mesmer. whenever a class gets nerfed, they all vent on well we get this nerfed and the mesmer has all those clones……
and yes anet listened to the crys. but now certain core mechanics that did make the mesmer viable in every gamemode,are either bugged, over nerfed or not viable at all anymore.
glamour traits: useless in wvw and spvp now due to overnerf of bb and 50% dmg reduction and bug fix in wvw
immortal mes build: retal nerf destroyed that one
phantasm mes: countless nerfs and bugs, too harsh on los, berserker was bugged for months, now iwarden bugged, now vigor nerf
shatterer: if de nerf gets through, heavy nerf
condi mes: pretty much non eistant in wvw due to confusion nerf,diamond skin and other classes that spam condi cleanse

and meanwhile other classes got multiple buffs, that turned wvw into a cc spam party and mesmers into vwilbots only. no way of dealing consistent pressusre on the enemy zerg, everything is 1v1 based, too much ai…

i really wondering where this class is heading. only being ok in spvp is not balance if u cant contribute viable aoe dmg in wvw.its not mantras we need. the way mantras work is simply not working for me at all.

yep sos has a big aus community, also Fa,TC and every t1 server

there is no real meta build, as mes is sorta only there to veil the zerg i use osicats power pu build atm(mine uses differnet armor and traits though), but this one at least lets u survive the cc spam meta a little better). we dont really have much aoe lesft after the nerfs. some people say that shatter could have some effect, but atm we are not in a great spot in wvw at all.

yeah lets add ileap bug
obstructed bug
los issues that arent los issues(like sanding below oil buildside and not being able to hit it)
then blinking on a bridge , dtairs, uneven traain fails
decoy failing

so yeah please address these soon. especially iwarden. could u please revert the change until u found a solution at least?

hmmm ill see. i hope my melandru rune will still be in good condition. but id like to try out a power oriented rune

all i want is mes to be back to his old glory where zergs actually had to think twice if they wanted to fight an organized mesmer heavy guild. nowadays they will laugh if they see a lot of mesmers in a zerg. all that counts is how many heavys u got.
i want my mesmer to have some aoe ability that can actually be a threat the same way as 1 hammer warrior is a threat with all his cc and dps.

a mesmer aoe without ai like glamour was…something like hexes were in gw1. it is so boring to be either a utility bot /rallybot that can only contribute veil or stuck with roaming and wvw is not about roaming, its about epic battles and thats the reason i play it. and my mesmer used to be part of those battles…now all i can do is stealth and speed up a zerg, hide in a keep and portal, portal golems and maybe rip a few boons and thats it.
i do have some more builds in spvp, but even there im more and more limited due to heavy cc, heavy condis and the whole zooo u gotta fight

i think ther should be a few servers that keep skyhammer…but please take that map out of many many servers please. thats the one map i usually either wait till its over or log to another server

Conncept.7638:

Dual.8953:

All balance changes mentioned in the Ready Up livestream should be added tomorrow, although, they stated there’s a slight chance there will be some revisions. Also the devs have stated that there will be many more balance changes that weren’t announced during the live stream session.
I’d drop a link but I’m on my phone.

Nooooo… they were asked that during the stream, to which they stated it would be a while before they would see live, possibly even as far as after the end of the LS story arc in march.

no i think u missunderstood. i think they meant the new skills will not be out tomorrow

Qaelyn.7612:

I’ve now got my engineer up to almost level 70. It is so much fun in WvW, even underleveled and wearing green gear, that I honestly will probably relegate my mesmer to secondary status.

And I don’t even run in a zerg.

This is not a profession that needs massive nerfing.

yup made a necro and love that i can deal nice aoe dmg. so much more fun than veilbot…

Meglobob.8620:

Mesmers should be rated higher than Necro’s because of there utility:-

Portal, how many golem rushes can you have without portal? Also, how many keeps/sm’s has a Mesmer gained you by portaling an entire zerg over the wall?

Plus Time Warp, a few timed Time Warps half the time it takes to melt any door. Plus a well placed time warp in combat sure helps, 5 of your side with quickness for 10 secs.

Also you have the 1200 AoE stealth, invisible zerg surprises other zerg, result win.

Feedback is awesome, oh look at all those bow, staff, rifle, grenade dudes killing themselves.

A zerg can live without a Necro because they don’t bring anything special to the party. Well Mesmers certainly do.

absolutely not. then go play a mesmer in a zerg and enjoy the veilbot! necro can deal massive aoe dmg, corrupt boons, convert condis into boons, etc.
mesmer can veil….(deals no dmg even with confusion trit dmg is a joke), high cd
portal, again no dmg,limited,high cd
tw, pshhh happens only every 210seconds and again deals no dmg

feedback used to be good, but completely useless agains heavy armors or anything that doesnt have a projectile which is nowadays almost everyone

nullfield: sry but well of corruption right there!much better

the mesmer is right with engi and thief second to last usefulclass,…last is ranger

GWEN is dominating and thats all u see in na atm
engi is still often seen with lots of granades, but not really part of an organized guild group
thief is ganker for stragelers and casters, but also not really needed
mes is only there because of veil, without veil, there would be no single mesmer.

pshh portal golems..afte almost a year being a veilbot, im so over portaling golem, veiling and tw.seriously its boring and afk while the GWEN gets into the fight after u have done your veil duty is not what i call fun.

well, i think people just got upset the way it was presented to us. until that last livestream i had my ups and downs with believeing in the balance team, but this last stream i was soo dissappointed and felt disrespected due to the way the devs talked about the nerfs. i was sooo hoping we would finally get something that would help us in wvw. everything that worked was nerfed to the ground and now all we can do in orgnized raids is veil… and there is no end to this terrible problem as it seems. we need new skills or we will be stuck in wvw as utilitybots forever.

Blackhat.4016:

To sum it up:

I don’t expect them to fix the game at all. The fact that they basically achieved nothing after more than a year shows that they don’t know to how to it. Casuals will always have their fun since it’s a decent game for them but all the other players either already left or still hang around frustrated.

i would not be so upset with the dev team,if they finally would admit that certain classes do need buffs for wvw at least. but last time they said they were happy with the mes and i was like well im not. being nerfed to the point where u have nothing to contribute to a largescale fight but a few non dmg utilities, is not balanced.
all i want atm is getting our bugs fixed after months and getting viable non ai based aoe again like we used to with glamours.
give us a little bone please. look at gw1 mes, look the hexes up. thats why mesmer there worked great. maybe replace mantras with something like that or let us spec into mantras to work differently. without recharge. like an aoe u can place. just something like that. after all we are a light armor class.
thats all i wish for. add some diversity in it and help groupplay. veilbot is sooooooooo frustrating and boring.

Xavi.6591:

Mesmer’s are there to help other classes in the zerg to get loot bags.

yup pretty much this. this is how i feel as a mesmer. i gotta always be on top of the leader then he stacks and he will be fat with veil callout…so u are still right infront of the zerg. then u dodge aside and try to deal as much dmg as u can which is terrible most of the time. meanwhile u have to use all your stunbreakers at once, have to dodge the countless aoes(and meteorshowers that can hit for 8k if classy ele), while the GWEN train fights eachother. 1wrong step or dodge and u will get perma immobilized,perma interrupted, perma knockeddown, stunlocked, peram crippled,perma feared and perma chilled and therefore need to run pu or melandru runes….

Neftex.7594:

@Bazzoong Do you play raid mesmer in some organised WvW guild? You cant just say its all ok when you have no experience with it. If you do, maybe you can upload some vid to show us your impact in these fights…

yeah agree with you. bazzoong clearly does not understand that mesmers(and of course rangers) are not ok at all in wvw. we wanna join the fun of the fight aswell and not jusy veil and then kite around hoping to hit something for a tag. we wann be killers like the GWEN train aswell. every class should be able to have fun in a largescale fight and be able to deal enough dmg to kill in its own way.

Tactu.4867:

now look at that! a mesmer crying that he hasn’t it all ? oooowwwww ….
what next ? crying that you don’t have death shroud ( it seems that is the only thing that you don’t have )

lol u really dont know what its like to be a mesmer in wvw. veilbot. all of u talking about utilities. yeah its veil,tw, mayyyybe feedback which is useless in the current meta. all u do is put veil down and then afk while GWEN goes at it.
we got barely any aoe or any strong attacks that could make us useful in an actual zergfight, apart from veil. the only reason u got a mesmer with u is veil and tw and veil and veil again and veil.
im not saying that rangers and thieves dont need help in wvw. rangers are right down there with us as the pet dies in like 1 aoe hit. thiev has high dmg high escape and can at least pick the eles and necros off, but other than that they lack aoe aswell.
every class has the right to be viable in every game mode and be useful at it. and wvw is about largescale fights not raoming. and in large scale thiev,mes and rangers are left out.
if veil was nerfed, no one would use his mes in zergs ever!

Alasteir.7031:

Jorjeis.2169:

Alasteir.7031:

If I were them, I’d just ignore the Mesmer forums till people calmed down a bit and started giving an unbiased, calm and concise criticism of the nerf with as much detail as possible, while also providing a disclaimer that the critic’s personal skills are not to be taken as the absolute standard to base any decisions on.

As opposed to them not ignoring the mesmer forums, which is what they do when precisely?

Ever wonder why they ignore the mesmer forums? Besides the existence of the Profession Balance forum now, I hypothesize the reason that they ignore the Mesmer forums is that rarely does anyone provide an actual unbiased, concise and specific criticism of Anet’s course of action.

Unbiased does not mean emotional, upset and insulting to Anet.
Concise and specific do not mean being vague and not providing actual data and information regarding the issue, and it certainly does not mean being foolish enough to think that generalizations are useful in a criticism.

When have you seen a Mesmer (or any player on any of the profession forums) actually providing data and a series of tests in response to one of Arenanet’s changes to see if it actually stands? These forums have a history of overreacting, it shouldn’t come as a surprise to you that Arenanet ignores the forums, ESPECIALLY when they end up flat out asking for an actual constructive criticism rather than the usual outcries.

It can’t be emphasized enough that everyone, everyone believes themselves to be rational, logical, and always believe their concerns are logical and rational. Even when they aren’t. This is why it usually takes someone else pointing out the flaws to see it.

this statement is absolutely false and not well thought out at all. sry but pyro provided us with tons of number, people suggested tons of fixes, tons of ideas and also voiced problems in a constructive way. the other forums are 10 times worse. thieves forum is full of this is the end of the world comments, warriors is full of we deserver to be so good and then the massive qq threads about hammer nerfs.
the mesmer forum was so quiet and we have a lot of great threads like the omfg threads that are very constructive, build contests and all that. how dare u putting us all in the same box!
i was actually getting mad at the mesmer forums because we never really fought back. it is time to speak up! im tired of being a veilbot! very very tired! since the massive confusion and other nerfs last may mesmer has gotten NOTHING! all the tiny buffs were a joke.MANTRAS?! yay aoe ….but only 240 range(u kidding me) oh and pu….yeah ok but this is not helping me much in wvw apart from survival!
meanwhile staffeles get buffed, warriors got buffed like crazy, necros had their condi buffed like crazy, engis got tons of fixes and buffs, ranger got spirit ranger buffs…and then nerfs again….. and mesmer is veilbot for almost a year now. veil veil veil veilveil veilveilveil. and now we get more nerfs. enough is enough!

Alasteir.7031:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Try this one;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Deceptive-Evasion-nerf/3516180

Or this one;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Deceptive-Evasion-nerf/3516356

And to reiterate, I really don’t want to ever again see another player defending Anet decisions. You don’t have a direct line to them, why do you even try to speak for them?
They can and should do it themselves. Yes, I know. It’s Sunday. I can wait for them to answer on Monday.

Both I’ve seen. The first is more in line with what I’m trying to say in that, this nerf is not a big deal, hence why people shouldn’t be so upset over it, and of course, is a weird choice for a nerf. I mean how often are people standing next to a clone which will be the one overridden by DE? Again I refer back to my post on how it isn’t very common to have 3 clones up a lot. So why all the uproar seemingly mimicking the Ele forums?

The second one is one I can agree with hence I didn’t bother defending Arenanet’s statements. My post criticized the players’ reactions to the nerf, more than defending what Arenanet said in the livestream.

EDIT: Response to your latest edit – Have you read my post? I am not defending Arenanet directly. I am saying that you, and a lot of other Mesmers are making this issue WAY more of a big deal than it is. It isn’t about defending Arenanet. It isn’t about “us” versus “them” like you seem to think it is. It is about a relatively minor nerf that is being seen as big enough to abandon any semblance of rationality. That of course does not apply to everyone. Some Mesmers are actually being more rational and are simply curious as to what Arenanet’s logic behind this is.

i think u dont really get why people are upset. de is important for many different builds and not having a clone on dodge because u have 3 illusions up while u are getting attacked by a second enemy for example is a problem. they handled it wrong because they fail to understand our class.
and many of us are also upset that since the massive nerfs mesmer has gotten absolutely nothing to make up for it. now another nerf and no way out of the veilbot state. and the all of this was presented to us with a laughing and mocking dev team. thats why people are mad. and im glad to see mesmers finally speak up after weve been ignored and nerfed to the ground in wvw and now another core mechanic is being attacked. confusion nerf was the same. its not even worth speccing into it anymore, this is how bad it got nerfed.
vigor nerf plus de nerf is quiet a big nerf.

to be quiet honest its very hard to tell as the animation is not really big when using moa. but yea range is terrible and i wouldnt mind to give that one up at all and give us a better elite that is actually useful

Aberrant.6749:

Aveneo.2068:

Already phantasms were nerfed at least 3 times so they deal less damage, need LoS and can be prevented from spawning by dodge/block/invul. Vengeful Images was stealth-nerfed to lasting only 5s instead of indefinitely, Shattered Strength nerfed from 3 stacks to 1, 50% nerf to Time Warp, 50% reduction to Confusion, increased cooldown on Portal (from 60s to 90s) and later also reduced number of uses, Illusionists Celerity changed from Adept Minor to Grandmaster Minor (and later back to Master Minor), Glamour nerfs etc.

And this is just an off-the-top-of-my-head list of some of the big nerfs the class has had to endure.

You can’t prevent a phant from spawning from a dodge/block afaik… blind/invuln yes.

A single blind will stop a multi-hitting phant unlike other multi hit attacks and they also doesn’t cause any reveal… despite phants being considered attacks they don’t always act as if they are. IMO the rules for them should be brought more in line with other attacks and have their damage adjusted for the buffs/nerfs this causes. This is a bit off topic though :P

yeah u are right the rules for our main dmg dealers are wayy to strict.
lets say earthshaker. they can just jump from right behind the corner in the middle of the enemy while a phantasm around the corner often gets the los,obstructed or out of range and goes into full cooldown.
but phantasms in general are not even our biggest problems. its the lack of stability, the lack of speed, the lack of condi cleanse combined with 0 aoe abilities in a zerg. shattering is not strong enough in a zerg, phantasms get maybe 3 hits and then long sd, then we got the staff with chaos storm, but its still a very weak aoe and most obvious one and the mh sword would require for u to jump in the zerg to deal dmg. afater all the nerfs all we got left is 1v1 stuff.

all cc has to be handled a little different imo.

knockdowns should make the target immune to second cc so target has at least a chance to recover. i got knocked down 3 times in a row without the chance to react or block

immobilize: should not stack at all and again target should be immune for a few seconds before it can be immobilized again.

same with stun, stun is not such the biggest issue as we got lots of stunbreakers in the game

also chill/cripple should not stach as i have found myself many times now being either perma chilled or perma crippled.

clipnotdone.9634:

“Hey guys shatter builds are OP”

Nerf Phantasms.

“Hey guys Phantasms are OP”

Nerf Shatter.

“Hey guys Mesmers are worthless in pvp.”

UHhh, Mantras are Aoe. Well two of them are. See? Mesmers are fine.

“Mantras are still useless in pvp”

What’s a Mantra?

“Hey guys Prismatic Understanding is OP”

HA HA HA HA HA

PURPLE

HA HA HA HA HA

CHEESE

HA HA HA HA HA

PRUPLE CHEESE

HA HA HA Nerf Deceptive Evasion.

Maining a Mesmer is suffering.

yup thats how i feel.
all the bugs that have never been fixed
ileap
they broke iwarden
blink fails multiple times cant blink on a bridge
los issues,cant hit unbuilt oil at all
phantasms obstructed too extreem and phantasm goes into full cd
decoy not working all the time
stuck in terrain after blink or phase retreat

then all the nerfs that destroyed the mesmers in wvw:
glours nerfed to the ground
immortal mesmer nerfed to the ground
phantasms nerfed very hard so now u get consistant obstructed bugs
clones die too quick now cant even reach target as they get cced
bb nerf
blurred frenzy nerf
de nerf now
chaos storm will get fixed soon and im sure they will break it so it will be useless like iwarden
they broke berserker before and it took them 6 months to fix it
no aoe
the vigor nerf
…
etc

and all we got is pu(1v1 and good to run away from a zerg chasing u)
mantras aoe that have a horrible range and seriously try to regarche a mantra in a zergfight…ugh
we havent gotten any real buffs that could make up for the wvw mesmer nerfs.none!
im frustrated and i have been very patient. give us at lest an opportunity to spec for aoe dmg so we can join the zergfights and not just veil and afk while the GWEN train fights each other. give us new skills like hexes or something that doesnt require stupid ai!

but now all we get is hahaha purple hahaha purple cheese

oZii.2864:

selan.8354:

oZii.2864:

selan.8354:

oZii.2864:

The sad part is that you truly believe this. They don’t like a class they created rofl. They are clearly biased. With your biased observation of them all having warriors. Grouch Mains Engineer anybody that semi follows the s/tPvP scene knows this.

From what I remember Chap mains Necro, Jon Peters is warrior, Powerr is Ele but he plays necro also, Grouch is Engi. I don’t know Karl and Roy’s classes.

Mesmer isn’t suppose to have movement speed and is suppose to be weak to conditions that is a part of their designed weakness.

i wouldnt mind the the swiftness and i am very used to it, same with no stability and terrible condi cleanse. but after the countless nerfs we are being ignored and just nerfed further despite the fact that mesmer is condammned to be a stupid veilbot in wvw. they never fixed any of our bugs and one really braking one is the iwarden that is beyond broken and didnt get fixed!
i dont care if they play other classes but it clearly isnt mesmer and also the way they talked about my class was absolutely disrespectful. hahaha cheesy hahaha no clone for u hahahaha purple hahaha chees ahaahahaha no u gotta work a little bit hahaha. how would u feel huh?

They didn’t say mesmer was cheesey they said DE allowed you to cheese it up with on death traits.

they said chees it up and yes they they constantly laughed and i felt mocked by them. so stop defending your beloved ones. a lot of other mesmer players felt the exact same way. i felt disrespected and u aint gonna change my opinion on that. and btw back on the topic. i really dont mind changing runes at all i am soo used to the slow speed by now i feel weird when i run fast. the only thing that really bugs me is the no aoe dmg as a light armor class, because everything that the mesmer used to be in wvw got nerfed to the ground of the grounds.
gw1 mes had it right gw2 mes is a complete mess with barely any build variety

Ok I love them you hate them but we both play their game how funny. Back on topic instead of mindreading the devs and interpreting what they said so you can play the victim card in a video game. I am sure you have probably been told before that you are running cheese or mesmer is cheesy I guess it hurt extra hard cause it came from the devs? You took it more personal? You should do a march on to Anet’s HQ and boycott NCsofts products followed by a sit-in.

i actually do like the devs, but this time i just felt disrespected.the way they talked about the mesmer and also the cluelessness of them surprised many of us. before i was always hopeful and did defend the devs quiet often.
but u gotta see, lots of our bugs havent been even adressed and our problem in wvw raids are completely ignored. im frustrated with being a veilbot. thats why i was forced to reroll so i can at least enjoy my favorite game mode again. i have no problems with people calling out chees builds. i barely use them i tried phantasm build once before all the nerfs and found it boring. i ran different hybrid builds and some very high skilled builds, but also meta builds like glamour.
i have 5 different armor sets with different runes and different builds and i keep experimenting. clone death is a very active build as u have to kite,time your dodges and blinks carefully,if played right. so being called out cheese is not really professional.
if it comes from a player, no problem, but being laughed at and mocked by the devs and thats how many of us felt, is not cool. makes me not trust in them at all anymore and i fear now that i will be condammned to be a veilbot for this entire year.

oZii.2864:

selan.8354:

oZii.2864:

The sad part is that you truly believe this. They don’t like a class they created rofl. They are clearly biased. With your biased observation of them all having warriors. Grouch Mains Engineer anybody that semi follows the s/tPvP scene knows this.

From what I remember Chap mains Necro, Jon Peters is warrior, Powerr is Ele but he plays necro also, Grouch is Engi. I don’t know Karl and Roy’s classes.

Mesmer isn’t suppose to have movement speed and is suppose to be weak to conditions that is a part of their designed weakness.

i wouldnt mind the the swiftness and i am very used to it, same with no stability and terrible condi cleanse. but after the countless nerfs we are being ignored and just nerfed further despite the fact that mesmer is condammned to be a stupid veilbot in wvw. they never fixed any of our bugs and one really braking one is the iwarden that is beyond broken and didnt get fixed!
i dont care if they play other classes but it clearly isnt mesmer and also the way they talked about my class was absolutely disrespectful. hahaha cheesy hahaha no clone for u hahahaha purple hahaha chees ahaahahaha no u gotta work a little bit hahaha. how would u feel huh?

They didn’t say mesmer was cheesey they said DE allowed you to cheese it up with on death traits.

they said chees it up and yes they they constantly laughed and i felt mocked by them. so stop defending your beloved ones. a lot of other mesmer players felt the exact same way. i felt disrespected and u aint gonna change my opinion on that. and btw back on the topic. i really dont mind changing runes at all i am soo used to the slow speed by now i feel weird when i run fast. the only thing that really bugs me is the no aoe dmg as a light armor class, because everything that the mesmer used to be in wvw got nerfed to the ground of the grounds.
gw1 mes had it right gw2 mes is a complete mess with barely any build variety

yeah it makes me so mad that i cant do anythhing but veil and then hopefully tag 1 or 2 enemies for a few bags. we are not a threat at all we are jut the veilbots thats it. noone is scarred if a zerg has many mesmers. all we do is tw and veil anyways.
a light armor class stuck as a 1v1 duelist with no way out and no aoe and no real dps, no clear role just 2-3 utilities.
no wonder mesmer is the least played class in gw2. our bugs dont even get considered in any patch. these nerfs only happened because one of our mesmers looked at a warrior funny.
but hey even anet thinks we are a joke, why even expect them to look at wvw balance that is an absolute disaster since spvp and wvw got put together for balance

oZii.2864:

The sad part is that you truly believe this. They don’t like a class they created rofl. They are clearly biased. With your biased observation of them all having warriors. Grouch Mains Engineer anybody that semi follows the s/tPvP scene knows this.

From what I remember Chap mains Necro, Jon Peters is warrior, Powerr is Ele but he plays necro also, Grouch is Engi. I don’t know Karl and Roy’s classes.

Mesmer isn’t suppose to have movement speed and is suppose to be weak to conditions that is a part of their designed weakness.

i wouldnt mind the the swiftness and i am very used to it, same with no stability and terrible condi cleanse. but after the countless nerfs we are being ignored and just nerfed further despite the fact that mesmer is condammned to be a stupid veilbot in wvw. they never fixed any of our bugs and one really braking one is the iwarden that is beyond broken and didnt get fixed!
i dont care if they play other classes but it clearly isnt mesmer and also the way they talked about my class was absolutely disrespectful. hahaha cheesy hahaha no clone for u hahahaha purple hahaha chees ahaahahaha no u gotta work a little bit hahaha. how would u feel huh?

geist.3980:

I make out just fine with my Mesmer. I spam glam skills on the zerg and then my dying clones affect those around them. its enough to fill the bags, but yes running Mesmer is a charity for most zergs as you portal ppl around way to much.

idk what kind of zergs u are fighting but the zergs i face. i get cced like crazy. if i have clones traited i barely see any numbers and the mass condi cleanse spam with war shouts and all that makes the already weak glamours completely useless. yeah u get a few more tags, but u are only allowed to be part of the zerg because u have veil. other than that u are no threat. i never heard a commander saying oh watch out they got 2 mesmers, make sure u kill them fast. they will go for ele first, then necro and then kill the rest of the GWEN

DeadlySynz.3471:

Given their ability to stealth in the manner that they do, they do not need a decent AoE attack, not unless their stealth takes a massive hit.

the only reason u see this much stealth atm is because that is the only way to survive acc spam. on my glamour mes back then i used 0 stealth and with 0 i mean 00000000! stealth doesnt hit any of u, so why u compare apples with oranges makes no sense! we need aoe as we are a light armor class, we are slow, have terrible condi cleansing and no stability. thats already reason enought to qualify for aoe dmg!

Helly.2597:

Now this idea isn’t great.

Mesmers have a long range aoe weapon with the greatsword already and short range mesmers can use sword auto attack.

If someones goal is for bags on a mesmer, all they have to do is trait for glamours giving confusion and blind. Blind is useful and confusion does still do damage even after the nerf a while back.

You are asking for a change that isn’t completely needed. I understand it isn’t as easy on a mesmer to tag enemies but its not impossible.

As for mesmers being berated by their commanders; either get a new commander or don’t mess up.

glmaours?your kidding right? i used to play a glamour mesmer and i cant kill anything with it. confusion is a joke and a mesmer with perplexity cant stack confusion even half as good as a thief,war and engi.
glamours are not viable at all anymore. they are the bottom of the bottom of the absolute bottom.
none of our skills are strong enough to be part of zergfights. all we can do is kitten veil and kitten tw and stand on the side while GWEN fights!
that is neither fun nor is this balance, this is kitten!!!!!!!!!!!

Justice.3608:

It’s too late the only Mesmer build ANet wants is the Phantasm build, spam all your phantams then afk while your GS auto-attacks crap to death.

oh and dont forget the veilbot role in wvw. thats all we do and can do because verything else gets nerfed to the ground.

Quiggle.4215:

I don’t think that anet “dislikes” classes, thats not a super constructive way to influence the game, thus my post was my desire to contribute.

sry but when i watched the stream they were clearly mocking the mesmer and made it very very clear to me that they cant stand the class. probably they played their godlike warriors vs a skilled mesmer and got destroyed.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is working as intended.
warriors are meant to be fast.
what is the problem?

do you remember that warriors have no direct access to:
- stealth
- illusions
- death shroud
- pets
- minions
- protection, aegis

warriors are balanced and not overpowered, it has been more than a year since launch, please accept that already.

DeathShroud? I would take Damage Immunity over DeathShroud every day of the week. Without traits deathShroud is nothing more than a meat shield that gets worse the more people that are attacking. Damage immunity how ever gets BETTER the more people that are attacking them.

Minions – you mean those easily killed brainless creatures that attack anything and everything no matter what, just like pets Minions are used more as meat shields than anything else.

Stealth – Why have stealth when you have Healing Signet, Adrenal Healing, Greatsword, Condition Immunity, Damage Immunity and Dogged March…

Why have Protection or Aegis when you have Healing Signet, Adrenal Healing, Condition Immunity, Damage Immunity, Shield, Dogged March, High health and high toughness and Armor as standard.

Why have Illusions when you can just face tank everything?

Warriors are far from balanced.

yup agree with this. i would give mydeatshroud and all my clones to u if i’d get my mes to be viable in wvw and my necro some defensive skills

but but but im already size 0 i dont wanna diet. QQ

Aveneo.2068:

I fully agree that Mesmers definitely needs to become more viable in large scale fights. Unfortunately it seems ANet has a hard time seeing anything beyond the sPvP aspect. Most likely because none of the ‘balance team’ apparently spends any time playing in WvW.

As such can just see the next patch notes:
* Veil – reduced number of uses to 5
* Portal – reduced number of uses to 5

Already phantasms were nerfed at least 3 times so they deal less damage, need LoS and can be prevented from spawning by dodge/block/invul. Vengeful Images was stealth-nerfed to lasting only 5s instead of indefinitely, Shattered Strength nerfed from 3 stacks to 1, 50% nerf to Time Warp, 50% reduction to Confusion, increased cooldown on Portal (from 60s to 90s) and later also reduced number of uses, Illusionists Celerity changed from Adept Minor to Grandmaster Minor (and later back to Master Minor), Glamour nerfs etc.

And this is just an off-the-top-of-my-head list of some of the big nerfs the class has had to endure.

agree the nerfs were too over the top. in wvw having your main dmg dealer being so limited that the los prevents u most of the time to use it and then goes into full cd is horrible. i cant hit unbuilt oil. i have a hard time to hit anything on the wall, eles hit everything on wall and necros can use deathschrouds to hit ac on wall. we cant do any of that. we are always on cd because of phantasm recharge and so cand keep pressure on the zerg…seriously once the nerf veil, no mesmer will be allowed to join wvw focused guilds

ileap fails way too often. its rather frustrating to waste your immobilize skill 90% of the time in wvw

Malakin.2809:

I think we are overreacting to this nerf. There are other ways to create clones aside from dodging.

well its not about the creating a clone only. for me it is defense that will be taken away. having a clone on dodge saved me many times in wvw from a zerg chasing me

iwarden used to be my favorite phantasm. if a pistol thief tried to burst me down i could summon an iwarden to protect me and he did well….but now its terrible. i chases random enemies, doesent hit the gates. hits pets now eventough i summoned it vs the ranger, then ranger goes invis and it attacks pet, doesnt reflect ranges dmg anymore and most of the time is busy chasing instead of attacking or doesnt span at all.

Wasbunny.6531:

Could anyone having an opinion (one way or another) relating specifically to the perception that the ‘clone death’ builds & traits are too powerful please post your thoughts & findings here:

PvX MESMER Are clone death traits OP?

Since this was the reason given for the Deceptive Evasion nerf I think it’s important to really look into whether this is true or not, especially when proposing alternative solutions like nerfing those specific traits or builds.

well thing is not that de is op. it has been in the game since start. people just have to think before mindlessly killing clones. the simple fix would have been not makeing the clone that gets replaced deal dmg, but then again all this clonedeath builds dont deal dmg that fast anyways. they can kill u over time, but its not like a thief 4 shotting everyone.
and in wvw those condis deal like no dmg at all as the groups run mass condi cleanse.

this is how bad the iwarden bug is:

i think the mesmer simply needs either new skills or new traits that allow us to spec for aoe dmg.
de could have been handled like lavra said.

well it seems like we are “chees”, “purple” and a joke to anet devs which many noticed during the stream today. “yeah no clones for u hahahaha.”
this bug has been for a while now. no fix , no nothing. no one cares that this cripples the mesmer, but hey lets nerf hahahaha

Bazzoong.7145:

Won a 2v5 with mesmer and thief in an enemy controled garrison to day after the blob left, the incoming reinforcements then got kited for abot 3 min until the buff timed out then the mesmer ported our zerg in.

Mesmers like thieves are TOOTAAALLY usless in wvw and need serious buffs.

And to the genius who asked for aoe damage on GS 1, it already does aoe damage everyone who stands in the purple beam gets hit so if you target someone in row three the guys in row one and two also get hit, clueless is clueless, use your brain even while spamming 1 it helps a lot.

so u are talking about roaming again then. well roaming is like spvp where we are strong. this thread if u actually bothered to read it, is about the wvw large scale fights which is the main part of wvw!mesmer needs buffs in group play, same with rabgers and thieves as all 3 of us dont have much to contribute. if mes didnt have veil, no one would need us

i dont play ranger, but from my perspective. ranger is ok in spvp, not great but ok. but in wvw its like the mesmer(if mes didnt have veil we would not be needed at all) unwanted and weak. ranger needs buffs in wvw large scale fights.

i played the mes in wvw since 2 months after headstart and loved it. i was able to put heavy pressure on zergs with glamours and shatters, but then all the nerfs happened and we were duelists only. all out wvw and group play traits and skills have been nerfed to the ground so all we got left is veil,portal,tw.
im frustrated in wvw. it is horrible to be able to only tag and not even tag well and also not kill. on my necro i am a threat but on my mes after veil there is nothing left. everything got nerfed.
yes, i get the duelist part, but in every mmo and even the ones im beta testing atm, every class has the opportunity to spec for group fights and is not just stuck with a 1v1 class.
the way anet devs talked about mes today was very disrespectful and sounded more like bullies making fun of the people that chose mesmers to be honest.
every class should be viable in wvw or at least have a traitline that specializes in it. thieves, rangers and mes need such a traitline.
buffing mantras is not gonna help. the gw1 mes had it right, gw2 mes needs something like hexes back.

Reesha.7901:

selan.8354:

and the way they talked about mes. ugh laughing and mocking the mesmers. sure in 2 yrs the mes will finally get a buff for wvw after suffering as a veilbot for month after month and being cced to death over and over…

Yes. I rarely get angry but I was furious after watching that stream. They have made the wrong decisions and they think it is “funny” to deliver the message of a nerf, which they were unable to provide any valid arguments for either. Depressing to say at least.

yeah the way they talked about mesmers was so disrespectful and unprofessional, that i lost all my faith in the balance team. i was always hoping the devs will focus once just once on the mesmer and fix the bugs, give us something new for wvw and tpvp so we are not just veilbots anymore. just once…but then the stream happened and i saw how much the devs dont wanna give the mesmer anything that could be strong. they rather nerf if we even dare to find a good build. probably also the reason why they nerfed glamours into the ground and then gave confusion to other classes that didnt even have to spec for it and get better results.

Reesha.7901:

Coulter.2315:

I have been told by someone that the Deceptive Evasion change will count clones differently than the current system.

At the moment if I have 3 clones and Shatter they all run to target but I can spawn new clones before they reach their destination. I have been told that the changed Deceptive Evasion will not spawn new clones in this situation because it counts the circle indicators and does not use the current system of not counting clones sent to shatter regardless of the circle indicator count.

Please you must go back and look at this coding again and make it work as the old system did, this will really badly effect Shatter mesmers especially those who use Staff/GS as all their clones/phants tend to keep themselves at range to the target. If this change goes through without being looked at it will suverely damage the 1 Mesmer build which has a bit of honour to it – you said yourselves you wanted to stop the cheesey stuff.

If this is true then imagine this:

Scenario 1:
You engage in a fight. You spawn your 3 clones and send them to shatter. Their target decides to kite your clones, which then will not shatter because they have not reached their target.

Another person pops into the fight and is able to cripple/immobilize/stun/fear you.
You cannot reach the kiting person and neither can your clones. You have no way of pressuring the second person because you have no dps.
You cannot spawn new clones.

Scenario 2:
After initiating a shatter, the person you are fighting decides to disengage. Your clones are following. In the meantime, a thief jumps you.

Your best offense against thieves are usually offense, which you now won’t have until your current clones are far enough away to be destroyed.

Truly amazing and well thought out change….

yep. the anet devs all play spvp only and then with warriors, see a mesmer, have trouble with the clones and think, hey lets nerf another core mechanic of the class. they already nerfed everything that was good about the mesmer, turned us into veilbots and ruined my gameplay soo much i ragequit mes and made a necro, where i can at least deal aoe dmg and be useful in zergs and noone is yelling at me where is the kitten VEIIIIIL.
they allow cc spam and immobilize stacking where u cant even react, but having a clone everytime u dodge is cheese..
and the way they talked about mes. ugh laughing and mocking the mesmers. sure in 2 yrs the mes will finally get a buff for wvw after suffering as a veilbot for month after month and being cced to death over and over…

yeah i bet if one of those devs was playing a mes in an organized guild in wvw, we would see changes quickly as they would realize how kitten the veilbot duty is and many other things they are absolutely clueless about. why didnt they just turnit into warrior wars and eliminate the rest of the classes as they clearly balance around so the warrior will always be the top played and top godlike class.

Distaste.4801:

selan.8354:

Furajir.3815:

Lmao @ mesmers saying they don’t have enough toys. hahaha

sais the guy that walks around with a zoo as spirit ranger or whatever u play. u clearly dont get what mes is about. ever been forced to use utilities? yeah welcome to the wvw mesmer! u are not allowed to trait or bring utilities that help u survive at least. u are required to bring veil,tw,portal and temportal curtain for pulls other than that u stand on the side and hope u tag something and also if u dont have veil u are useless and wont get to play in organized guilds ever.

I can glean two things from your post. 1. You somehow think rangers have ANY role in WvW. The pets and spirits they have are basically worthless in WvW. One thing that no one in the history of WvW has said is “Oh no it’s a ranger”, well maybe if it’s on their side :P 2. You’ve run with incredibly strict WvW groups or haven’t run in many current WvW groups. Mesmers can take whatever they want, survival is very much encouraged over utility as a dead mesmer has no utility. Portal bombs are pretty much a thing of the past and I might have seen 1 in the last 2 months and it ended with the bombers dead. Veil is something you can switch to right before you do a big zerg vs zerg battle and you can still run 2 useful utilities and 3 any other time. Mesmers in zerg combat are actually quite effective with chaos storm, feedback, and berserker illusions. Their condition cleanse AOE is pretty spiffy too in the condition heavy world.

never have i said rangers had a role in wvw. in multiple threads i actually mention rangers and that they need buffs in wvw. chaosstorm u kidding right? the rng in that skill is too much and dmg is quiet low. i dont even get half the dmg that i get with well of corruption on my necro. feedback:lol!what are u reflecting in the current meta? there are no rojectiles and most of the zergs ha mostly warriors in it with gs,hammer and sword/wh so your feedback is untraited just a bubble that does no dmg at all. if traited oh well we all know how awesome glamours are after the overnerf.
nullfield. lol again. the cd is very long and is nowhere near as useful as well of corruption. berserker. u are luck if it actually does 1 full attackchain on 5 targets. either it gets cc’ed, obstructed,out of range or goes poof before hitting due to the heavy aoe spam.
organized groups will always require veil and tw or veil and massinvis. noone will say we need more mes unlesss u are doing a portalchain for a massive golemrush. it is hard to find enough mesmers in wvw for a reason. who wants to be a veilbot?who wants to only be there for 1 utility and for the rest of the fight stand on the side and try to survive while trying to tag a few enemies.

Furajir.3815:

Lmao @ mesmers saying they don’t have enough toys. hahaha

sais the guy that walks around with a zoo as spirit ranger or whatever u play. u clearly dont get what mes is about. ever been forced to use utilities? yeah welcome to the wvw mesmer! u are not allowed to trait or bring utilities that help u survive at least. u are required to bring veil,tw,portal and temportal curtain for pulls other than that u stand on the side and hope u tag something and also if u dont have veil u are useless and wont get to play in organized guilds ever.

aelfwe.4239:

Wasbunny.6531:

Sorrow.7384:

I made this to clearly explain issues with not being able to replace illusions:

http://imgur.com/a/kryzw

Wow great job! That really does clearly illustrate one of the many negative impacts this unnecessary nerf will have. Thanks for taking the time to do that Sorrow.

So sad we have to explain things like this to dev who are “balace designer”.

So sad we have a class with core mechanic f1 f2 f3 f4 and dev nerf\kill\put out of the meta 80% of builds that involve to use f1 f2 f3 f4 like shatter

So sad dev keep buffing build that involve to rarely use our f1 f2 f3 f4 (phantasm\pu)

Never been so sad in 12 years mmo balance

agree with u. i actually have been so sad too when glamour was nerfed to the ground and then to kick us even more they gave confusion to other classes with perplexity and can be stacked better by other classes.

Neftex.7594:

Im playing mesmer since summer so I didnt have the chance to play the great confusion glamour mesmer. But back then I was using the retaliation/reflection build and it worked because the meta was different.

Now there are no projectiles and I changed to shatter. Im ok with getting veil, null field and time warp for my guild but thats pretty much all I can do for them. Without taking these utilities I think Id make my mesmer even more useless. Illusions die so fast that I can usually shatter 1 illusion + myself with trait. And to be able to do so and not die, I need tank equip so my damage output is just too low.

agree with u. people see the spvp mes and think we are super amazing, but in wvw we are bottom feeders with no way out because even anet only ses the spvp mesmer. maybe once the mesmer in spvp has been nerfed to the ground we will see some buffs in wvw.