Guild Wars 2

seriously getting tired of veil. please anet throw the wvw mesmer a bone.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Brando.1374:

Lord Kuru.3685:

This is hilarious. Anet absolutely hates WvW. Just refer to the dev griefing the GvG incident.

The map and the bloodlust ruins are/were both additions that were not requested by WvW players. If you look at their layouts, they don’t feel like WvW at all. More like sPvP areas. The suspicion is that Anet wants to introduce WvW players to sPvP by creating more sPvP-like regions in WvW.

That dev incident may be the only reason why WvW is getting any love at all.

I think this is definitely true. The outrage from this incident was enormous. It pretty much forced Anet to do something for WvW (though in the end EoTM is not something that most WvW players want).

yup too much pve in that imo. nice looking map though, but not something my guild would play.

Juba.8406:

dude you cant be real.

just be thankful that Crit isnt getting nerfed in PvP, they r nerfing it in WvW because of some PvE dungeon boss, yeah kitten logic.

nah its because in wvw, the crit potential is higher than in spvp. there is soo many things that scale dmg way better in wvw. foodbuffs, ascended gear, guard leech, bloodlust buff. if u meet a glassthief there, he can easily crit u for 11-13k if u are a light armor. there is people running around with 105% crit dmg. what people dont understand is that devs mainly balance wvw around spvp.
the problem there is that every buff u do in spvp will make a big difference in wvw. the for example immobilize stacking and all cc buffs for war…they turned war into spvp dominat class, but this change turned the warrior into a beast in wvw. the healing signet buff created some almost unkillable warriors out there, etc.
so a wvw player might aswell could say that spvp destroys wvw.
thanks to spvp the mesmers in wvw are now veilbots, because everything else they had got nerfed to the ground.

err well this has been a problem for a very long time. 1 person should not be able to contest a keep for this long. make the keep not contest until it has lost a certain amount of health, that could maybe stop the gate tagging problem

hmmm i believe its more than just those 2 guilds. noticed at late oceanix/sea that sos runs now with 40+ man zergs almost everywhere. and i saw a bunch of newguilds.
but could be all the fairweathers showing up

yeah the chasing is a problem as the warden worked as a shield for me. now it spends more time chasing after targets than attacking.i dont understand why anet changed it in the first place.it was my favourite phantasm and now i hate it.

Phi Is Sly.1857:

Not every thing should be balanced on zerg play. The skill is overpowered, just like perma hide builds are. You fight a necro, manage to get them down to the last 5% hp, fending off multiple full stacks of conditions ticking at a much higher rate dps than you can dish out due to the dire set. For them to just enter death shroud and be back at 100% hp.
Cos balance?. If you honestly think my suggestions are going to break your game, it pretty much proves that you rly on this skill! their for proving its op. -.-

+ my changes would give you more hp at the start of a fight, you just end up with less the lower your base hp has been damged at.

what are u talking about? balance is made around spvp not zergplay. balance in zergs is completely broken! thats why mesmers are veilbots in wvw, because they are balanced around spvp/1v1 thats why warriors are godlike easy mode in wvw, thats why eles can hit u for 8k with meteorshower, thats why a killshot can 1shot u, thats why all u see is war war war.

and that nerf is not balance at all. and yes necros have the right to defend this skill as it is the only defense they have.. nerfing ds like this would destroy every necrobuild out there and your suggestion would make them completely underpowered and weak. i have killed plenty of necros with multiple classes. i main a mes and recently made a necro and no it does not need a nerf at all. id rather say buff the necros defensive skills and traits or give them new ones.

Paulie.6215:

Agreed. In addition there should be a 1 min cool down once it ends.

But ya something needs to be done.

that would kill the wvw necro completely. this such an overnerf. necro has little to no escapes, no stability nor defensive traits like blocks/leaps/invul ds is their defense. i main a mesmer but i play necro too and it is really hard to survive in a zerg on my necro with the cc spam meta.
asking for such a nerf means u know little to nothing about the necro or at least necro in large scale fights. you are asking to overnerf the only defense a necro has based on a 1v1 roaming experience.

Wyrden.4713:

to all mesmers without jumping skills, u can now easily jump to unreachable places like warriors guards etc with a ‘experimental teleportation gun’

see attachments

yeah as a mesmer that has probably died over 700 times due to jp’s and falling accidents and who does need a mesmer to port me up to the vistas…..yay ill have more funny falling deaths but i might improve a little with that XD

hihey.1075:

/respect.
You are one of the reasons I still believe in this class and in its users. Fighting against a glass cannon Shatter/Phantasm mesmer always provides me with unmatched adrenaline.

Keep it up

sry but this is not very constructive.
i use pu not to troll or anything i use it so i can survive better in a zerg. pu has been in the game for quiet some time now and only since a month or so it became popular. i have tried pretty much every build out there. i got 5 different armor sets and i played glamour/triforce/immortal mes/phantasm build/torment build/ blackwater/power pu/ shatter cat/ anti warrior build/lockdown and even a mantra build. when everyone in spvp played phantasm build, i played a glamhybrid. i dont follow the meta ever, but atm i use pu as i have to survive at all cost or ill rally everyone.
running with a zergbusting group is very intense and yes im a veilbot, but at least i survive.
when u get focused by backline gankers, then u need that extra toughness and extra stealth to get away. also the cc meta makes it very hard for our class.
so instead of judging everyone, u might wanna check the build our and see if it really is sooooo overpowered.
also then u dont respect our best mesmer players either then? pyro played pu, osicat plays power pu…just sayin’
so could u please stop assuming that everyone using this build wants an easy win. tell u what, its not. u might win a few 1v1’s but u still die a lot. i play in a very harsh environment atm. if u push 50 man zergs with 15-25 people u gotta spec for defense and pu is in the defensive traitline. so having no respect for mesmers using it, is quiet an ignorant statement, sry.

Sari.9836:

I agree, revert it back to its initial state of 1 stack in sPvP.
(I can’t tell for WvW, I haven’t played it enough for a long time)

its worse there. u get chain immobilized to death and also chain interrupted. perma feared, perma chilled, perma stunned, perma immobilized, perma interrupted is all u see in wvw atm.
all of these need some form of immunity, so after u got interrupted u cant get interrupted again right away again and u can react at least. same with all the immobilize. its ridiculous that u just stand there and cant do anything to defend yourself.

style.6173:

Mesmer:
1. Stupidly easy to win 1v1 on this class. There shouldn’t be a class that is this strong in 1v1.

erm this is really a not very constructive comment, the way u wrote it here. every class should be viable in 1v1 and group play. i agree though that the mesmer is very strong in it. i would rather have a little less 1v1 and more group and zerg strength. a light armor class should not be a 1v1 duelist only.
i main a mesmer and wouldnt mind less 1v1 and more zerg and group abilities. mesmers have been nerfed so hard that all we got left is dueling builds. i used to never play the dueling mes builds, but now im almost forced into pu so i can at lest survive the zerg and maybe get 1 or 2 hits on a few targets. we used to be able to fight with the zerg and deal nice dmg while supporting the group, but now there is none of that left, but the veilbot duty. the dueling builds only got so popular as this is the only thing left for us and thats also why it is bugging your guys so much, because before mesmers would spec into group builds that arent good in 1v1 like glamour and there were overall way more builds out there. now we are improvising builds that arent even real builds for group play.
so yeah if nerfing the dueling builds in wvw is what it takes for us to finally get away from the veilbot duty, then yes please anet go ahead an redesign our class.

i see your point and yes asuras are harder to read, but making them the same size will simply look weird and i wouldnt like it. i think thier animations simply have to be made more clearer. make their animations bigger and it will be better. but im against having all characters being the same size.

Osicat.4139:

@Pupi, singnet of Eather work we’ll in condition cat setup as a lot of your dmg can be done while you stealth and it’s a passive aggressive build. I feel it lack some usefulness in hidden cat setup as you often do and take dmg in bursts and their for want big chunky heals.

/Osicat

agreed. i’ve used the signet in spvp for a month just to see if it works for me but went back to ether feast. if 2 enemies for example kill all my illusions and then charge me the heal itslef is terrible. i did like to be able to pop 2 pistol phantasms right away with it, but like u say osicat, in power pu it doesnt work as well.
im not really a big fan of the mantra heal as im in a zergbusting group in wvw and we face massive zergs with 15-20 people and therefore recharging the mantra is too hard. my all time favourite is the ether feast.

pupi.2465:

selan.8354:

pupi.2465:

Osicat, i’ve been playing Mesmer since beta, always used the Shatter Buld, but since some time ago, i cant beat ppl in duels, (skilled players) from all classes, i’ve tried the Mantra Healing build, and same, just surviving more time.

And with PU build, i just cant… dmg! i dont do dmg at all… what am i doing wrong?

(im talking about duels)

hmm i cant really kill well with pu condi but pu power in a 1v1 is great.atm im trying swors/pistol scepter/torch in spvp and it does take time to kill tanky guys, but glass cannons melt. if a thief attacks me and goes into stealth i usually wait 2-3 seconds and then pop my stealth and dodge so when the thief poos out of stealth he attacks the clones. and i use magic bulled and cast my pistol phantasm on him right away. after i am able to have 1 pistol phantasm, every time he pops out of stealth the phantasm hits him and with this power pu build u can hit him quiet hard.
trick is to not shatter or only shatter when target is very low.
but then again what are u using power pu or condi pu? whats your armor? what runes do u use?

Selan, im using power build, armor is soldier (maybe theres the problem ), Speed Runes since i dont have the gold to purchase Traveler’s.

Should i change it?

well i dont run travellers runes with it. i have 2 sets 1 with melanru for the more defensive one and one offensive on with rune of the fighter. also berserk weapons and a mix between berserk and cavaliers trinkets. i run with around 2300power(no foo,no stacks) and 1700 toughness and it does take some time to kill a bunker for sure, but in wvw i run gs, sword/torch and dueling is going great with it, but i prefer in 1v1’s having my set up scepter/torch for defense and sword/pistol for cc and offense. so when a thief attacks me i use defense first, then swap to offense and spawn the pistol phantasm which can hit like a truck.
im not a big fan of travellers runes for my builds as i prefer having 100 extra toughness or 100 more power or condi instead of the speed and boon duration.
i’d say try to play around with it a little until u find the right pu power set up that makes u feel confi.
try different weapons and see what suits your playstyle.

pupi.2465:

Osicat, i’ve been playing Mesmer since beta, always used the Shatter Buld, but since some time ago, i cant beat ppl in duels, (skilled players) from all classes, i’ve tried the Mantra Healing build, and same, just surviving more time.

And with PU build, i just cant… dmg! i dont do dmg at all… what am i doing wrong?

(im talking about duels)

hmm i cant really kill well with pu condi but pu power in a 1v1 is great.atm im trying swors/pistol scepter/torch in spvp and it does take time to kill tanky guys, but glass cannons melt. if a thief attacks me and goes into stealth i usually wait 2-3 seconds and then pop my stealth and dodge so when the thief poos out of stealth he attacks the clones. and i use magic bulled and cast my pistol phantasm on him right away. after i am able to have 1 pistol phantasm, every time he pops out of stealth the phantasm hits him and with this power pu build u can hit him quiet hard.
trick is to not shatter or only shatter when target is very low.
but then again what are u using power pu or condi pu? whats your armor? what runes do u use?

hmm solo i preferred the stationary. before when i fought a pistol thief. i would spawn an iwarden when thief is visible and stand next to him as my protector. now it switches target and runs towards something elese if it can atttack. it doesnt sttack gates anymore it will chase the enemy behind it.but like it was mentioned before there is the bug and i cant really tell its full potential yet.

Dojo.1867:

Pls no caps. Stupid idea. Makes the game even more easy to play. If you get hit by a lot of stuff or stand in those fields you should suffer the consequences.

perma cripple is too much. i still think it should effective, but needs a cap on it. same with chill. being crippled for 15 seconds is already a lot. it should not go past that so u have a chance to recover. chill is even worse and needs a cap too.

yeah i had issues like this aswell. barely managed to get into the game.

AgentChaos.4932:

enable town clothes in wvw please

people exploited it, so unless all those abilities are disabled we cant reintroduce them

Thothkepara.2539:

A mesmer just isn’t going to bring the heat like GWEN in a zerg, the profession isn’t about burst damage or large aoe, it’s actually a hybrid of both. That said, you don’t have to be the veilbot/golem bus either. I find effectiveness playing outrider to zergs, sticking close enough for help if needed, but picking off enemy herd from the flanks.

Outside the zerg mesmers can be deadly roamers paired or alone, if you have the skill.

well to be honest veil is pretty much the only thing that people remeber about a mesmer. yes u can hit a few people here and there, but dont forget, mesmers used to be a strong part of the zerg. the countless nerfes have made us what we are atm. veilbots or roamers. i love massive battles and always will, thats why i plat wvw and no roaming will never replace that ever. and no i dont wanna be a support ever/1 this class used to be strong in those battles for months and then 1by1 all was gone. so no i refuse to be a ganker like a thief or a stupid utilitybot or stuck with boring 1v1’s and taking a camp!
i wanna be strong in a large massive battle and all classes should be able to be part of it. why is GWEN the only one having all the fun?i didnt play this class to become a roamer, because thats not what we were. we were strong and now we have very little builds left. anet please do something.

there is also the los and obstructed bugs. i cant hit oil buildside even if im standing right below it. same with cannon.
lots of times i get obstructed if an enemy is a little higher up than me and phantasm goes into full cd.
ileap bug..
blink bugs
phaseretreat bugs

there is soo much we have just gotten used to over time, but its really sad these get never adressed.

Stand The Wall.6987:

A duration debuff imo wouldnt work because a lot of people have the melandru runes. Add the two together and condis are at a huge disadvantage. Discounted the + and – 40% food.
I think a hard cap is needed. Possible examples:

Chill – 10sec
Cripple – 15sec
Poison – 15sec
Burn – 10sec

Everytime someone receives another stacking condi (kittening immob) it is null and void if it exceeds the hard cap limit. I think these values are still very high, but at least we would get some kind of mitigation help in this department.

+1 from me. i got perma crippled by thieves and engis in regular bases. on my last raid in wvw i got perma chilled with no way out and my cleanses were all on cd. very frustrating and does need a cap. soft cc like chill and cripple for sure.

yes please remove them already. i want my real loot back and not the terrible horrible gifts anymore. its almost february…no more xmas please.XD

just revert the change u guys did until u find a fix. i cant use my focus like that atm. it so terrible that it makes the entire weapon useless

well this is wvw. zergs are part of such a gamemode. u cant remove it as it is a game mode where a large group fights another large group. and for me zergbusting with my guild is epic. i love massive battles, thats why i play wvw. wvw is also good for roaming, but because there is siegeing and taking keeps involved of course wvw is about large scale fights. its battle grounds and every game that has such a game mode will have zergs there.
maybe this game mode isnt for u ….the eotm maps could maybe be more fun for u. it is big and u can roam quiet well. so lets see. in another game im beta testing atm, the wvw map is sooooooo massive that it will take u quiet some time to get from 1 keep to another and also there is towns with pve content there. but also there the frontlines will always have zergs.
new larger maps could also help u to avaoid those zergs if u dont like them. but if u wanna take a keep with 5-10 people, u will have to expect that the enemy might shows up with 35+.
i only run with zergs that are arounnd 30+ if i want some karma and wxp, but i prefer running with my zergbusting guild. 15-20 people pushing 30-60 oh yeah that iiiiiis fun fun fun. if you are in a well coordinated guild, its possible to push an enemy zerg that outnumbers u greatly.
class balance is terrible though atm, so i do understand that wvw is becoming kinda stale as all u see is war/guard/ele/necro(GWEN train). the other classes are either utilitybots or rallybots and cant really contribute. so of course if u cant play your main class ell in a game mode u will not play it and are sorta forced to join the zerg.
we just need new maps and better wvw balance and not the spvp balance.

BlackDevil.9268:

Actually, this is what mesmer used to be before the confusion nerf:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYqfuWsjkTQ

And this is what mesmer used to be before the sword nerf:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742&index=6

In both cases you can see mesmer doing usefull stuff. In both cases we could be running with ’’dps’’ specced gears. Now we got DIRE gears, it will be most likely that they wont bring back the confusion glamour builds. If they would remove the Blinding Befuddlement cooldown you would get mesmers in full dire spamming chaos armor and just running with the melee train to apply massive amount of confusion stacks by pretty much doing nothing.

That’s not really how mesmer should be. I always thought mesmer should be a backline class, while we more and more aim towards frontline.

In the 2nd video you can see I was running with +/- 1400 toughness. My dps spikes were pretty high, survivability was good and the pull was still pretty good to use (without cd it’s so much more effective… 1sec is just ruining the skill.)

Now I’m almost forced to run with 1700 toughness to do the same because of all the nerfs we got, feedback is rather useless now with so few projectiles and the pull is also kitten.

Chaos storm with CS bug was actually a step towards something we should be. Too bad they put priority on ’’fixing’’ bugs that buffs us on aspects where we should be buffed, rather than looking for other options to make them viable…

agree with you very much. yes glamour was too strong, but didnt need such a massive nerf. but what we need is aoe that works like this. mesmers aoe should be punishing. atm its hard to stop a melee train as there is nothing hiolding them back. they can just spam earthshaker and cc and 111 while tanking everything and the only thing stopping them is another melee train.
if glamour was still there and still strong, melee trains would have to slow down and think before spamming as glamours really only hurt u when u spamm your attacks. plus condi cleanse has become much stronger.
but then again i think we simply need a complete overhaul. imo mantras and mimic could be removed and replaced or changed so they work more like hexes or so. glamour traits could be updated so they do something new instead of confusion.etc mes should not be a duelist only. its a light armor that needs to have the option to do non ai aoe. too many of our traits have become useless or underpowered. so we need lots of changes so we can move forward and not feel stuck as a roamer/spvp duelist

my 3 likes:

1.massive battles, sometimes with 3 severs fighting each other. its a lot of fun when those epic battles happen.
2. i love running with my guilds. we are around 15-20 that will go and chase those massive blobs and destroy them. its a lot of fun. i like the gvg’s with them too and working together as a coordinated team.
3.destroying golems.

dislikes:
1. classbalance: sry but balance in wvw is a disaster. the only ones having fun are the GWEN train. they are the ones that fight those massive battles.
my mesmer after all the nerfs has become a veilbot. all we can contribut atm is veil. and that because of overnerfing certain things and then overbuffing war.
rangers arent even allowed in coordinated guilds.
engi has some good aoe, but the gwen train makes them simply not shine at all. thieves have a similar issue like mesmers as they are gankers only and dont have the chance to spec for aoe and zergsfights.

2defending keeps. ometimes the moment u see a keep contested and have to search wher the attack is coming from, very often the enemy is almost through the outer gat already. the upgrades mean nothing vs ram mastery. eles can destroy everything on top of walls. u cant even defend if u are out numbered. keeps are too easy to walk through.once outer is down, they are right on the inner gate. if u dont have a ton of siege ready there is nothing u can do.

3. maps. they are too small, they have too much useless space and are boring. i personally dislike the bloodlust circles, but i like the terrain it has. i wish the carver point would be an actual tower. we had those maps for a very very long time now, its time to let go of them. we need new improved keeps,maps and towers.

Gutts.8791:

Bombsaway, I understand what you’re trying to do / say but it just doesn’t work. Your “key elements” to how characters work in this game is just too black & white. The complexities of GW2 combat are just way too in-depth to label things like that. From the options you’ve given, you could make it sound like a mesmer is absolutely terrible except for say ….. condition damage.

Now I know this is going to sound like the opposite of what I just said, but I once described characters based around a pyramid of:-

damage a character can produce / damage a character can mitigate with class mechanics / healing per second

Now, lets say you could somehow attach a figure to each one of those in some weird “maths” equation, and imagine that “damage a character can mitigate with class mechanics” x “healing per second” = total survivability. The warrior is no where near the top.

Healing signet for example, is the highest heal in the game per second at 392 base heal per second. Mesmer has Ether Fest which providing is used with 3 illusions (basically always) has a heal rate of 356 per second (it’s on a 20 second cooldown).

Now, the warrior has “high armor” which basically means jack kitten. The mesmer on the hand has so many tricks up his sleeve, the damage mitigation is enormous. Without any clones / illusions getting in the way and doing damage while I can run around as a mesmer, I have two skills on a 30 second cooldown and 40 second cooldown which provide 4 seconds of stealth each. That’s 8 seconds, of a warrior helplessly attacking clones, while I run around and do whatever the hell I want while my heal comes off cooldown, essentially making the cooldown of the skill 12 seconds as I was stealthed for 8, and providing I am not kittened I shouldn’t be taking damage while stealthed. Now if you want to calculate things in as black & white as you did, that makes Etherfest heal for 623 HP/s out of seconds that I’m actually there as a visible target.

Now, let’s add do it, clones, which in a hurry can be hard to distinguish between the real mesmer, and phantasms who are dealing auto damage to the warrior whether or not the mesmer is stealth, CCed or whatever. Then let’s add to that the instant teleport which can be treated for a 24 second cooldown. Then let’s add to that the evade on sword#2.

That is SO much damage mitigation there to class mechanics, it makes the mesmer’s survivability in a 1 to 1 stand off ENORMOUSLY larger than a warriors no matter what build he’s running. It’s why I’ve recently made the switch (I’ve mained a warrior since launch) Yeah, warriors can run away, but what difference does that make in WvW or PvP. When you’re capping points, you need to be there, not running away. I have solo’d a camp as mesmer which actually had a decently built and played warrior defending it. There is no way on earth my warrior would be able to do that, and I’ve only been playing my mesmer for 3 days (levelled him months ago).
.

u are aware of the fact that u are describing a 1v1 encounter vs a mes. yes mes is strong in 1v1, but we got no stability, terrible condi cleanse and not enough dps over time. a mesmer can litteralu unload all his skills and phantasms and the tanky war will still be at least at half health and then your signet will heals while phantasms are on cd and all other abilities too, so fighting a heavy armor class is a long fight for me as a mes.

now in 1v1 yes we are a pain, but in wvw none of the things u described work in a large fight. no clones to protect u, phantasms insta die, or get cced before they even get 1 hit off, eather feast has not enough illusions to heal a lot as u can barely manage to keep 1 illusion up. meanwhile u are cc’ed to death and our out of combat speed is a joke. at least u dont have los issues with all your main dmg dealing attacks. phantsms get los all the time. i cant even hit an unbuilt oil in wvw.
all the clone traits and phantasm traits and all that stuff that sounds so great, are useless in a zerg, where your class is king.
im the one veiling u and that it. i cant kill i cant deal decent aoe dmg.
dont get me wrong i dont want war being nerfed to the ground. id rather have my class reworked so i can join wvw zergfights the same way your class can and not be a utility slot bot for your class.

Discordia.7293:

selan.8354:

Discordia.7293:

Nerf or Remove dire gear.

Is a problem, have a lot of survival and high condition dps, +40 condition duration food, the build is extremely OP.
With the critical dmg nerf, these builds will be invincible when fighting versus dps users.

Mesmers roaming with dire and PU, Enginners with dire and perplexity, much op.

I believe it is good to give attention to this problem.

Sorry for my bad english, i used google tradutor to help me.

erm this is a little selfish. sry. u want to nerf dire because YOU have a problem in ROAMING in WVW. i run dire in zergs and no its not op. i die as much as a pvt gear user does. dire is good for me and especially in this cc meta dire helps u to survive a little longer than 2 seconds.
at least im not geting 2shot by thieves anymore on my light armor classes. and again u guys all are overreacting because of the 10% nerf. seriously! mesmers core condition was nerfed by 50% percent and u guuys are still crying over confusion. confusion…if u have more than 5 stacks stooop attacking and u dont die.simple.
stop mashing buttons when u have confusion on u. confusion doesnt even hurt that much anyways. but i assume u are a glass thief. well mix some pvt in your berserker armor and bring condi cleanser. in zergs condis are not such a problem at all as the zerg heals condis very quickly

Not only for me, but Rabid and Carrion is powerfull for high survive and cond spamm. Dire is ridiculous, like a god mode. If u use PTV, you never kill a enemy. WvW is a large world and can be played in various ways, not only in zergs.

Imagine when nerf the critical damage.

ryan.6217:

just getting this out here, A necro is still going to bust your face in with conditions and bunker your kitten with toughness even if you take away dire. they problem isnt dire, its people not utilizing condi clears. they are a second healing skill in this meta

This problem is a condition duration and enemy survive. Exemple: one burn hits half life, if remove, enemy put again in 1s. (i’m not warrior, i dont have a perm regen).

err i wear full pvt gear on my mes as i run with a zergbusting group, but i do roam with that and kill. dire i used in zergfights when i was running condi mes. i also have 2 rabid sets and a berseker set for pve. dire just made me die less in massive zergfights but it is not op at all.i meet a lot of condi engis and yes they are strong but they are not the ones killing me, its the power based engis that destroy me and yes condi necros kill me and condi thieves. but dire on mes is not a problem and i think dire is not a problem either.
in wvw after all there are melandru runes and -condi food

Osicat.4139:

@Selan, understand how you mean, in the end we come down thus to the fact mesmers don’t have any really superb zergbusting build sens the glamour and blinding+confusion nerf. A organized raid 25 man team will be most effective as a mele train with Mesmer as a support veil caster. Don’t really matter what setup we bring for aoe dmg as other dps classes do this better and even bring better survival/defense ratio.

Whoops thu, think u and me led this thread away from the tpvp questions, sorry op

/Osicay

yeah true sry op dont wanna take away from your thread. in tpvp people dont like bringing mesmers as they have a hard time to hold on to cap points and also we got not the constant pressure on a target like other classes do. im still doing well with my pu power mes with a s/pistol and scepter torch. it takes quiet long to take bunkers down, but classy thieves, they attack, u block, boom torment 5 stack if they stealth wait 2 sec stealth too dodge have thief attack clone use magic bullet cast pistol phantasm which will hit the thief the moment he gets out of stealth for up to 6k.

so it is possible to play a mesmer in tpvp, but just switch off chat as there is many many people qqing about u choosing mes. i had a guy telling me oh u shouldnt play mes in tpvp u are too weak and are dragging down the team. i scored 2nd in points and was on rampage quiet often and only died once. he was quiet after that.

Silhouette.5631:

The problem is there’s no stat to counter condition damage.

yes there is many many many of them. why do u think i had to swap my dire for pvt and go full power on my mes? condis dont hurt anymore. the zerg just cleanses it in seconds.what class are u playing?

wvw is about battles and not roaming. therefore asking about nerfs because u got problems at roaming is quiet selfish. wvw= large battles=zergs=zergbusting groups=and siege and wvw has space for roamers too. its not wvw=roaming maps for single players and epic duels wvw is not 1v1=wvw is OPEN for 1v1 and duels

Discordia.7293:

Nerf or Remove dire gear.

Is a problem, have a lot of survival and high condition dps, +40 condition duration food, the build is extremely OP.
With the critical dmg nerf, these builds will be invincible when fighting versus dps users.

Mesmers roaming with dire and PU, Enginners with dire and perplexity, much op.

I believe it is good to give attention to this problem.

Sorry for my bad english, i used google tradutor to help me.

erm this is a little selfish. sry. u want to nerf dire because YOU have a problem in ROAMING in WVW. i run dire in zergs and no its not op. i die as much as a pvt gear user does. dire is good for me and especially in this cc meta dire helps u to survive a little longer than 2 seconds.
at least im not geting 2shot by thieves anymore on my light armor classes. and again u guys all are overreacting because of the 10% nerf. seriously! mesmers core condition was nerfed by 50% percent and u guuys are still crying over confusion. confusion…if u have more than 5 stacks stooop attacking and u dont die.simple.
stop mashing buttons when u have confusion on u. confusion doesnt even hurt that much anyways. but i assume u are a glass thief. well mix some pvt in your berserker armor and bring condi cleanser. in zergs condis are not such a problem at all as the zerg heals condis very quickly

kyubi.3620:

so wait you can actualy kill him while in moa form XD?

yeah u can. people just tend to panic and run like a headless chicken, i turn around and keep attacking. i still got all my power so my moa hits u hard.

u can have moa and i take one of your elites instead,deal? i only use moa if i wanna troll in wvw. other than that i think its a useless skill. if anet removes it i wont be complaining at all… oh and take the mantras with too u anet.

Atherakhia.4086:

Then apparently I wasn’t wrong as I clearly said the phantasm issue in WvW will likely never be fixed without a complete overhaul for any class that has a pet or minion.

I’m also not sure the lack of AE is mistake. Rangers have the same problem. Necros as well (for power).

I’ve said my piece though, so best of luck.

agree ai is a problem, but necro is no problem. i play power necro and the aoe there is amazing, but necro does need more defensive traits/skills as necros have slow combat speed and can be focused easily. trying to run away as a necro is a pain.

@Atherakhia.4086 look this is what mes used to be:

Atherakhia.4086:

Carighan.6758:

Atherakhia, a large problem is that WvW-wise we were designed to offer background pressure via our relatively easy and dangerous access to AE confusion.

Since that was nerfed, the main point we had in WvW evaporated. We are still taken for utility, but the non-utility role no longer exists, as Confusion no longer pressures anyone.

If Mesmers did terrible damage they wouldn’t be so strong in the roaming/dueling department. If they couldn’t defend themselves, they wouldn’t be strong in the roaming and dueling department. All I’m saying is, as an outsider, the damage and defense don’t appear to be realistic problems with the class (though I do realize clones/phantasms dying before they hit the target you have selected is a problem with certain ones).

From the various discussions during a raid it just seems like the utility is never ready because Mesmers only slot portal and veil when specifically needed and often are caught in situations that they could use them but don’t have them equipped because they needed something else before they got jumped. I often hear mesmers lament that a null field would be perfect here, but I had to slot portal etc.

It appears; again, as an outsider, the class provides tons of stuff but they can’t fit it all in and still be viable on their own. This seems like the only area really worth exploring because the damage isn’t a problem and clone/phantasms being bunk in zergs is something ANet will need to overhaul for a lot of classes.

and there u are wrong again. our dmg and ai works in roaming as ther arent 15-20 aoes that destroy the ai. roaming ans spvp mes does well, same with rangers. they do well in small encounters, but both our classes are stripped down to nothing in a zerg due to ai. u cant compare a 1v1 with a 50v50. ther is littereally nothing that puts out pressure in a zerg from a a mesmer. nothing at all! gwen is the onlyone that can deal dmg and survive. im not even considered a caster. im handeled like a light armor, but i am not as i have no aoe. so what am i in the backline fore. my clones will never reach, my phantasms are either out or range,obstructed, bugged or get cc es right away and die before they can hit anything.
chaos storm is our only real aoe. its aoe omg omg its an aoe…..and thats it and it has a long cd and thats no pressure just being able to use 1 aoe every 35 seconds.

Atherakhia.4086:

But why is this the case? I really don’t see the class needing anything in the damage department. Defensively the class is more than fine too. It’s all a utility issue and the problem is the Mesmer has so many amazingly strong utility skills but only 3 slots to fill, and when filling with utility you lose the defensive options that you need to survive.

This is where the focus of attention should be imo. With things like portal and veil, what if these things had a shorter cooldown in the 45-60 second range and were made weapon skills instead? In the grand scheme of things, the cooldown isn’t much of a difference as you’ll still only use these things once an engagement. The difference between 60 seconds and 90 seconds doesn’t mean much imo.

Offensively I don’t feel the class needs anything. A global change to pets and minions so they take less damage from random AE in WvW perhaps, but beyond that nothing. Defensively the class doesn’t need anything either because if you can actually slot defensive utility skills you do fine. The only issue is providing veil and portal while also keeping yourself alive.

Now I don’t play a Mesmer and can only speak of the general complaints over teamspeak and me being on the receiving end so if I’m entirely off base here, I appologize. But aren’t there any weapon options the class considers 100% useless in every situation that could do with getting a veil or portal in exchange for what’s already available?

Torch for example? It already has a stealth so giving it a veil doesn’t change gameplay all that much. What if the phantasmal mage dropped (and could be killed to allow for counter play) and once you drop a portal exit it explodes opening a wormhole between the 2 points for people to travel (as a fluffy explanation of it).

But again I could be off base here…

i think u are missing the point. we dont wanna use portals and veils. its boring. its so frustrating to be a utilityslot for the zerg.
yes u havent played mesmer, so u dont know what numbers u get as a pure power mesmer in a zerg. i agree that single target hits are pretty strong and dont need a buff. but mesmer needs more aoe damaging skills.
i am lucky if i get to tag 5 enemies when using my stupid berserker. we have no aoe dmg whatsoever.
phantasms die in 2 hits or less, sometimes before they can even hit anything. my gs autoattack hits hard but only 1 target, mantras are useless and yes i know some people use them. i hate the way they work and their so called aoe range is a complete joke!

i hear mesmer say shatter mes works. no it doesnt. i run with a zergbusting guild and no it does not work at all. no clones to shatter ever, ip sorta works but still is useless when outnumbered. if u get hit by an organized guild. ther is cc,chills, condis, cc, even more cc and massive aoes all over the place. as a mesmer u have to stay on distance. u cant just go into shatter range.
we lack aoe and lots of it. since glam nerfs ther is no viable aoe left for us. it was all taken away with that one patch.

our weapons are more single target focused and our main dmg comes from phantasms. they all have pretty long cd’s compared to earthshaker for example. earthshaker deals aoe dmg is not depending on a target, no los issues, is a cc and deals great dmg even after the nerf.
a phantasm is ai and not a viable aoe. u can cc it u can block it , the los is way to strict and it is tough to hit more than 2 targets with it.plus almost all phantasms bug out sometimes where they dont spawn or dont attack or die before they even can attack.

other classes have stronger weapon skills lots of them dont require a target. other light armors have ground targeting skills, we dont really have that. everything is target based and our utilities barely make up for the dmg loss we get with our ai.
glam was different. it did put great dmg out and was a great aoe.

our utilities are
4 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra
which soud nice, but they are very difficult to use and recharging one of them in a battle is almost impossible.
then we have manipulation skills http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Manipulation
only one of them i really use is blink, the rest is nothing that deals dmg again and lots of them are under used.

we got defensive phantasms, that are again ai and not good in a raid
and the glamours are not worth speccing into.

signet are again not really that good…in a 1v1 i use some of them sometimes and thats it.
our elites are support or the troll moa

so here we are with weaker weapon skills that need a target and phantasms that can barely deal dmg due to ai being not viable in zergs. so yeah we need aoe like hexes, so we can be a real light armor class and not a false meduim duelist.

Jocksy.3415:

Why are mesmers the only ones ever complaining about being xyz bot…
Wars – Hard CC + banner bot
Guard – Healer bot
Necros – debuff bot
Elem – water + cc bot (and put those AoE’s on the walls!)
Mesmers : veils/portals/debuff bot
Thief – staggler killer and explosions bot (and rallybot)
Engies – water and bomb bot
Ranger – CC bot (and rallybot)

All professions can do much more than what they are used for in WvW – when they are used…

So why complain that “mine doesn’t do enough”, when at least it is wanted in most settings?

those examples are not bots at all.

ranger has same issues in wvw. everything that has ever be strong was nerfed to non viable right away. organized guilds dont allow rangers with them. he is not even viable as a bot at this point.

war: does great dmg, the more u have the better, u got cc u got condi cleans, u got tons of aoe attacks, lots of toughness, lots of hp and on top of that high resistance vs condis and great mobility. thats not a bot. that is the meta and u get to fight and loot and have fun.

guard: is not bot either. yes they help with boons and all that, but they got aoe, they get to fight in large groups and have fun.

ele: has aoe that can deal massive dmg, they heal they cleanse they cc and yes they can play and have fun. they are no bots

…
etc

i think u really dont get the point of bot at all. being a veilbot means that is the only thing that sets u appart from the other classes, the only reason why people have 1-2 mes in a zerg. its veil and tw, nothing else. u have to bring it or you are not useful for a zerg. being useful in a zerg means u can contribute to the overall dmg u can do to a big group. aoe dmg is very important in wvw and therefore every class should have access to it in wvw.
our phantasms and shaters are not viable as they are no threat to a a large group at all. u are lucky if u get yur berserker to hit properly. most of the time it gets cc’ed, dies right after its spawns, gets the los bug or simply get evaded.
c’mon mesmers are no threat in a zerg at all. if your group gets wiped its not like u hear them say: darn they had a lot of mesmers thats why they got us this time..(which used to be the case before glmour nerf)
now its: oh they had soo many necros, gotta watch out next time, or woah they all run war and guards…or oh they had a lot of glassy eles with them. its because those 4 classes get to deal massive dmg and also support in a zerg. we cant, we are only there for veil, not to deal dmg.
that is a veilbot. if veil was nerfed, mes would join ranger as least useful class in large fights.

BlackDevil.9268:

Sorry but what stupid arguments are you bringing up.

’’you’re only a veilbot if you want to be one’’, no you’re a veil-bot because everything else besides that is useless. Sure, roll whatever you want on your mesmer, but don’t expect to play in top guilds with that mind-set.

Rerolling is not a solution for memer being really unbalanced in WvW.

Idk which scrubs you’re fighting, but against decent guilds those clones wont even come close to hitting the enemy. Which leaves yourself with IP alone to hit with shatter.
Your bags are full after 1 fight? How many slots do you have? 20? Even I with RG when farming 80+ guys my bags aren’t even full yet.

You’re bringing up roaming, which is cute because that’s not really the point of this thread as far as I’m concerned. The whole idea of this thread is because mesmer lacks ability’s in Raids/Zergs.

Moa is probably one of the worst skills in game. Not only it’s a very immature skill, it’s totally imbalanced and worthless on many aspects. Not to mention how many times this skill fails.

The ’’only’’ thing anet can do is balance mesmer in WvW so roaming and raiding is equal strength. Not like now, where mesmer is totally superior in roaming and gets more useless every patch in raid.

ty finally someone that gets it. im part of a zergbusting guild and yes shatterer does not work vs outnumbered or organized guilds. i refuse to reroll as a warrior only because of balance fails. every class should be viable and not just a ganker or 1v1 roaming class or be veilbots. fighting vs zergs is what i like and why i play. and before glamour nerf and tons of other nerfs, mes was viable and not a veilbot. a mindless 111 spam zerg had to be careful if they faced a coordinated guild with lots of mesmers, but then the nerfs kicked in hard and other classes got big buffs. well hellooooou to veilbot role.
only because of spvp and wvw balance being the same our class seems to not ever get a bone fore wvw at all.clones are ai and ai is terribad in wvw.

Elegant Avenger.8042:

Coming from a Mesmer, nerf PU and mindless Phantasm spam. It isn’t fun for anyone. (I don’t know how either of these work in PvE, but in sPvP and WvW they are a problem)

Then buff or don’t change the highly active builds like Lockdown and Shatter.

I don’t know about other Mesmers, but I get tired of people always assuming you’re playing PU. It is a stupidly easy build and highly effective. It gives the rest of us a bad name, and therefore needs a nerf.

not all forms of pu are easy to play. i use pu only so i can survive in zergs and if i get focused i can stealth and reposition myslef while cleansing condi. i have seen a lot of pu mesmers in spvp that were terrible though.i play power pu and it does require skill for sure.

Osicat.4139:

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Idd travaler runes and power PU with 1200 y blink make mesmer one of the most fun roaming classes in wvwvw, team up with 1-2 thiefs and 2 usain bolt warriors and you can be a nightmare.

/Osicat

roaming i completely agree with u, i even use almost the same build like u… but im not a roamer im part of a zergbusting group.in an outnumbered fight u gotta be really on top of your game or u die in 2 sec as mes. i use pu there so im not a rallybot.

Blackhat.4016:

selan.8354:

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

Don’t forget portal.

hahaha omg i forgot. yeah portaling golems is like super awesome. its the highlight of my entire gameing career XD

BlackDevil.9268:

Nausicca.6038:

jportell.2197:

Now it’s an absolute joke.

I don’t have this feeling. I can still kill a lot of people in wvw, and do more than ok in spvp ( not doing tpvp so far). Of course, I have a hard time agains’t skilled players, especialy thieves, but I think it’s something normal. And most of all, I have a lot of fun playing my shatter build compared to any PU build.

One of the biggest mistakes people make: Linking fun and balancing to eachother. Just because you have more fun playing a build that is pretty… underpowered atm, it doesn’t mean it’s balanced. Sure you’re having fun, but that doesn’t mean it’s underpowered.
I can also run some troll roaming build and kill 1/2 guys in a 25v60 and have fun, but that’s not being usefull.

agreed. ther is mesmers out there that will say, yeah mes is in a great place in wvw, i get to support my team with veil and portal and im awesome at boonstripping and i can give boons ….and then dat timewarp is oo great. and me who used to be in a mesmer zergbusting guild is more like… yeah and this does like no dmg it is a support build, but this isnt the problem, the problem is the fighting mesmer the aoe dp which is non existant and no feedback doesnt count as the current meta has little to nothing to reflect.
only because u like being a support and utility build in wvw doesnt mean that the wvw mes is balanced. its not and i run with zergbusting groups and ele,necro and heavys are a must. im mostly the only mes.

godofcows.2451:

i can see that training bikes want more wheels.

i smell a warrior!
but seriously if u have nothing constructive to say then just leave this discussion alone. this is about wvw mes not spvp mes first off and aldo we are talking about group fights,zergfights and not roaming. so your blind hate is very missplaced here.

Melroc.8290:

I find it disgusting that you cant make a character that is more reflective of the vast majority of MMO players. Whats wrong with us REAL people wanting to stay somewhat connected to our character by having it reflect my REAL body. No one has the six pack green abs of the sylvari character in game. I find this irresponsible and I will NOT be allowing my children to play this game until its fixed.

erm there is heavier models but yeah no real plus sizes, but then again your character needs to fight and therefore has muscles, so it does make sense.
im happy with my mes and as i am a size 0 i have no problems with the current character models, but i do understand that anet could maybe add a plus size model.
dont get why this is bad for your children to play because they cant play plus size characters though.
are u sure they would even choose such a character model? maybe have them play norn then as they do have more meat on them. but in most of the mmos out there u wont find real plus size, but u do have the option to give them nice curves, same with gw2 so i dont see the problem. try to play around with the norn a little bit, but wouldnt recommend the sylvari though

Vuh.1328:

Ugh yeah you guys are right, i just have to change my mindset and never touch warrior again.

Guess i should really give WvWvW a shot

erm on your mes? well u know if u like being a utilitybot then yeah thats what u are in wvw. and nothing else. veil veil veil veil and then tw. thats it. in roaming u might gonna find some fun fights though.

i never use moa, unless i wanna troll a mm necro that has been dominating in spvp with his zoo.

massinvis is pretty good in wvw, as it stealthes people that are being focused for example.
i use it to protect the casters

tw: massive cd for a short small frenzie. my guild leader likes to use it in wvw and it can be a little effective, but its not really something i would call an elite imo.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Just some random ideas:

• Blinding Befuddlement: Increased amount of applied stacks from 1 to 3. Reduced duration from 4 to 3 seconds. It still has the 5s CD on each individual target.

Reason: In addition to the confusion nerf, this trait became useless. One stack of confusion can easily be ignored by any class, on top of that, cleansing became much more efficient since the nerf. Reducing the duration will face some problems that might occur with confusion/condition duration traits/food.

• [New]Elite Skill: Echo: Copy the next skill you’re using. Cooldown: Copied CD + 30s

Reason: Now I know it’s unlikely to get any new traits or skills in the near future, but this skill would solve many issues imo – primarily the lack of AoEs. Giving the Mesmers a second Feedback or Chaos Storm would help alot. In Guild Wars 1, this skill wasn’t an Elite… but I guess it would be overpowered to have two Elites in GW2 (Imagine chaining Moa on someone in 1v1). I’m almost 100% certain that Anet decides to bring this glorious skill back into the game one day or another.

• [New]Grandmaster Trait: Phantasmal Overload: Reduce the Recharge of all Phantasm skills by 15%. Your phantasms will spawn with Aegis (5s) and protection (5s), but lose health over time.

Reason: Phantasms die very quickly in large fights, often not landing their first attack. Giving them lower cooldown and some protection after they spawn will be enough to land their first attack. As a downside and to balance this out in smaller fights, they won’t live very long (only if you decide to heal them somehow). Maybe this trait could replace the Furious Interruption trait that i personally find very unappealing, but that’s just me. By the way, I think more skills should also have a downside. That would open up many more playstyles and improve the risk/reward ratio.

• Veil: Create a wall that grants stealth to you and your allies (2s) and revealed on enemies (2s). (CD: 90s)

Reason: At the moment, the main purpose of this skill is to hide zergs. The stealth duration is short and the cooldown is quite high for having only one purpose. I know that many PU Mesmers are using this skill to maximize their trolling capabilites, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. Temporal Curtain grants swiftness and applies cripple on enemies, it’s just logical that Veil should work in a similar way.
Besides, it would be kitten funny to unveil a zerg.

hmm some interesting ideas here. like the veil one. i doubt though that glamours are gonna be the only way to rescue the wvw raid mesmer. like the elite though, which could lead to qq in spvp though as people could for example spawn 2 pistol phantasms at the same time which is pretty painful vs single target(up to 12k dmg).
i think repalcing mantras with hexes or hex like skills would fix wvw mes in no time as we all would have our unique mesmer aoe.