Guild Wars 2

Cribbage.2056:

Everyone has to spec traits, that’s how it works. My point was that you can spec yours to do some pretty awesome damage whilst still having a chance to survive (e.g. you clones and phantasms will still be DPSing when you are taking some defensive action).

You have a trade off of damage vs survivability, but it is not as harsh as that on many classes. Those classes may have to take more defensive traits, then increase their DPS with runes.

I know this is the mesmer forum, so I am concious of not wanting to troll, but really the mesmer has been one of the few classes that has been at the top since launch. I agree that having parity on movement speed should be somewhere in the future, but I’d very much like to see balance of actual performance put before things like that.

in 1v1 maybe, but in wvw since glamour and other countless nerfs we are on the bottom of the bottom! and all classes can spec into power and get decend defenses and survival. power necro is one of the weaker ones though but thats also because anet never really gave them defensive traits. ele gets earthshield has great heals and condi cleanses in water while doing massive meteorshower dmg. war has it all including cc spam and stability. guardian is one of the classes that does have to choose between defense and offense but still has plenty of blocks if offensive. engi has all of it too, thief has grea escapes. ranger i cant tell as i havent played the class

Liewec.2896:

personally i love the Deceptive Evasion nerf, i hope they nerf clone spammers through the ground, i play pvp, i want to fight players not the AI they spam because they’re too useless to fight for themselves…

i write this after rage quitting from my last game against a team with 3 mesmers that did nothing but run away, stealth and spam AI.

AI needs removing from pvp entirely. PVP PLAYER VS PLAYER

lol sure if anet nerfes all core mechanics of the mes, then we are ready for a new buff, new defensive traits and finally new stuff in wvw, where we really do need buffs as we are veilbots. at least u can play all 3 game modes and are not forced to be a utilitybot and after veil sitting on the side for the ret of the fight.

Cribbage.2056:

Some classes get swiftness or speed naturally but are not so great on damage, so have to try to squeeze some extra out of runes.

Mesmer gets high damage naturally and has to squeeze some swiftness out of runes. Where is the imbalance?

high dmg naturally? wat? u are aware that u gotta spec like everyone else, plus our traitlines are a complete mess right? u get a utility. any other class gets the same amount of power or condi while being able to have swiftness. we are either bound to focus or a rune

Pyroatheist.9031:

Wasbunny.6531:

I had to go back and watch the whole 20 seconds about this on the stream to try to decipher their rational behind this nerf (42 minutes in btw). This is what I could make out that they didn’t like about the trait:

• It proc’ed ‘on clone death’ traits
• It disrupted the flow of your clones (no idea what that means)
• It forced you to either ‘cheese it’ (again, no clue what this means) or
• It interrupts your game-play (still no idea what specific type of ‘game-play’ this inhibited, especially since on-clone death builds make this an integral part of their game-play)
• It feels broken (very subjective but ok)
• You have your clone, you’re attacking and you’re there and it’s changing all your positioning (???)
• It can replace Phantasms. No it can’t. (Yes it can.)

So to me the only thing that makes any sense is they feel the ‘on clone death’ traits are too powerful. Why they think this is anyone’s guess as they really didn’t say.

Lol. And these are our actual devs everyone. Seriously. These guys are in charge of balancing this game. sigh

yeah they sure laugh a lot when talking about mes and talk like the spvp warrior trolls that are raging over a mesmer they cant kill because ther 111111 earthshaker spam is not working.

erm not sure if u have enough dmg,toughness or condi dmg. all the stats in this build are very low. what are u dealing dmg with?
u trait for glamours, but u have no condi dmg.
i have 1780 toughness,2300 power, 900 condi dmg(im power build)
decide what u wanna deal dmg with. condi or power. if u want glamours, try some condi trinkets like dire or rabid with it. i wouldnt go pure celestial with my mes as it simply wont do enough dmg alltogether in zergs.

also try master tuning crystal it will raise that condi dmg a lot.
maybe mix celestial armor with rabid or dire and have rabid trinkets would bring your condi dmg up a lot

aaron.7850:

For mesmers, its conditions and speed. And I am totally fine with that because we have a lot of good strenghts, so it puzzles me when people say things like “they nerf us but they dont fix our speed or give us condition removal? l2balance arenanet”.

Everyone calls for buffs but no one admits when their class is too strong or when they need a weakness.

What is your class and what should your weakness be?

erm ok so about mesmer:

its not just the speed and condi removal, its the nerfs that turned us into veilbots, its the nerfs that destroyed entire builds, its the non existant buffs that would help us in wvw. we need something back for wvw and tpvp and large group fights apart from veil, but no we get more useless stuff. if we discover a strong build, it will get nerfed hard immediately. we are the only class that has to use a runeset in order to have speedboosts or use focus that has a now broken and useless phantasm with it. we get defensive traits and core mechanics nerfed, but never a buff.
if war gets a tiny nerf, they get a massive buff with it. at least the devs are not making fun of your classes. they were talking about the mes like they truly hated it: hahahah purple…hahaha cheese….hahaha no clones for u…hahaha….cheeesy……hahaha

none of our bugs has been fixed!ileap been bugged for ever, cant hit oil or cannon due to overly hard los and obstructed issue, iwarden is so broken now that it does just stand there or doesnt even spawn, blinking on bridge doesnt work, decoy sometimes not working, phaseretreat glitches u into terrain or doesnt work properly, etc. there is soo many things that we simply deal with every day, but they are annoying

Stievie.6128:

I do wonder why our class ability (shatters) revolves around killing off our clones ourselfs but they keep pushing builds that dont shatter at all, while nerfing shatter

I´ve lost my faith in anet

i lost the faith in anet the moment they started talking about mes:
hhahahahah…purple…hahahahchees…hahaha no clone for u hahahaha…cheesy…hahaha

anet already showed in the last stream how much they dislike the mes.probably because they lost with their warriors against a skilled mesmer. they talked about mes like this: purple purple hahaha……cheese….hahaha….no u dont get a clone….hahaha. cheesy….hahahaa.
we need a new balance person that is not prejudice against our class. maybe they will see that mes is a bottom feeder in wvw that is only allowed to put down veil and then stand on the side for the rest of the battle.

because they dont play mes in wvw. they maybe tried mes once or twice in spvp, but im sure they have never ever been part of a large scale fight in wvw. just try to hit unbuilt oil with gs. if u hit once u get a cookie from me! also the constant obstructed and out of range problem that puts phantasms into full cd without doing anything cripples us too. the obstructed appears like 100 times every night whne i pla wvw.
and the iwardenbug is simply sad. if a war has a little bug, it will get fixed right away im sure.

Wasbunny.6531:

Yeah, it’s actually pretty ironic if they are trying to squash PU builds since I’m now finding myself looking at it as the only viable alternative to mine. I find the play-style of phantasm builds boring and shatter specs really hard to control in PvE, especially in large events. I was really enjoying the constant bouncing around exploding clones all over the place with my weird ‘Mesmermancer’. Then the devs casually called it ‘cheesy’ and killed her.

All rabid, all ascended gear too so I need to find another even half-way viable condition build that I enjoy playing. Guess it’s time to watch some PU Mesmer videos…

yeah if the mes discovers 1 build that we use a lot, they nerf it right away, but war cc spam is not cheese? they shave war, but never really nerf it they destroyed glamours and stepped on us and not enough they even introduced perplexity runes that gave confusion to other classes that could stack it better then mesmer ever could. theyy keep stepping on us, ignoring us in wvw. it feels like this:
anet balance team:
“so mesmer changes?”
“hmm the clones are annoying when i fight them on my war”
“yeah, so nerf?”
“yeah, but then they will all cry.”
“hmm givem a mantra then?”
“hmm, yeah something.”
“nah, they dont need anything, they are in a good place.”
“but wvw, they are not really happy.”
“nah they got veil and portal, they dont need anything.”

Shinja.5642:

selan.8354:

reroll. so all u want is seeing GWEN then and remove all classes then. sure . go walk your stupid golems, go take those walls down as im sick of hiding in a keep, go fight the enemy without veil and tw!

^- This every mesmer should just reroll. I got over 1k hours on my mesmer (80% of my gametime) and with every patch it gets worse and worse and worse. We cant even 1v1 anymore after the vigor nerf and the DE nerfs. We cant do condis half as good as Necro Ele or Ingi, We dont have any burst left and yeah we got the veil thing going for us wich is nice. So everyone just reroll a Warrior.

yep seriously we should all go on strike. anet clearly has no clue about mesmers and only sees us through warrior eyes in spvp. they ignore that we suffer for months now in wvw. i played mes for more than 3k hours. who need mesmers? lets just all reroll as a class from the GWEN train.

well if mes was not able to fight in zergs since start and was more like a thief, i would somewhat understand the 1v1 thing, but we useed to be excellent in wvw. glamours, phantasms, immortal mes builds etc. we were strong and then boom glamours got nerfed to the ground, our core mechanic confusion got nerfed to the ground, perplexity gave other classes better confusion than we ever had, immortal mesmer nerfed to the ground, obstructed bugs all the time now. can barely hit a cannon or oil, now they are nerfing another core mechanic of the mes, the de shatter spec, etc. but hey they got mantras. i hate the way mantras work and i think it should be massively improved or removed, same with glamours, same with our stupid traitlines./ just delet mes and start from scratch and make us something like gw1 mes, that at least had aoe not ai! or make us a medium armor class then

aaron.7850:

get rune of the centaur, cast mantra heal every 10 seconds, enjoy perma swiftness

yeahs o i can not get a decent rune, because im force to use a rune so i can keep upt with my guild? those runes are only there for the stupid swiftness. i could get 100 more power or 100 more toughness or 100 more condi, or something that protects me from cc like melandru, but no i have to use a stupid mantra and a stupid rune.
id rather be slow and survive in a large fight than being forced to use a rune set

style.6173:

Mesmer is fine. Every class does not need to be good at everything. Mesmer is already the best 1v1 class. I think that is fine, and it should come at the expense of team support.

In other words, play your Mesmer to its strengths. If you want something more team oriented, try a different class.

well the problem is, mesmer used to be very strong in wvw and group play with glamour and immortal mes build. even phantasm builds were better. all the nerfs have brough us down to the bottom. so for the ones saying wer were designed as a 1v1 duelist class, that is not true.
thats why wvw mes all turned to glamour and immortal mes as it was our way to fight in wvw.
anet did not shave those builds, anet eliminated them. now all we get is 1v1 stuff which we dont need. yes we sure are good in duels, but anet also stated that they dont want the typical dps,healer,tank design, that every class can contribute in every game mode.
if mes was supposed to be a duelist class only why is this a light armor class and now medium then?
why have the mes be good in wvw large scale fights and then nerf it to the ground of the ground leaving us as ai spamming stupid veilbots? anet only sees the chees spvp builds. anet ignores us. thats why i want anet to completely nerf mes into the ground of the grounds, so we are bad in 1v1 and die in 1 hit, so maybe we can finally work our way back into a real light armor class that can contribute in a large scale fight.

reroll. so all u want is seeing GWEN then and remove all classes then. sure . go walk your stupid golems, go take those walls down as im sick of hiding in a keep, go fight the enemy without veil and tw!

pu wont be nerfed to the ground, but it affects all builds. i usually dodge away twice if i get zerged and the enemy will chase after the clones for a little moment. now if i have 1 phantasm up and a clone i can only dodge once and the second time i wont have that clone helping me to confuse the enemy.
i used de as a defensive trait not clonedeath as clone death is not very useful in wvw large scale fights. i would be ok with the nerf, but only if anet finally starts giving the mes some attention in the wvw large scale fights. all we see is nerf after nerf and the only buffs we got is mantras, which still are a pain to use and yes pu. but pu is not gonna help us to be more than a stupid veilbot. we need our aoe back. since anet destroyed glamour and made it not worth speccing for it at all, we got nothing but veil and then stand on the side watching the fight.
seems like they only focus on spv and ignore that every change affects wvw like 10 times more. so anet please remove all the stuff u have destroyed(glamours), replace them with something useful, improve the use of mantras(recharging a mantra in a zerg is a pain and really doesent quiet fit in with the way gw2 plays)or remove and replace them, fix our bugs(iwarden,obstructed,ileap,blink,phantasms not spawning and going into full cd, decoy sometimes not working, etc), fix our traitlines or simply redisign the entire class.
we are stuck and not able to improve at all in wvw because all u see is spvp 1v1. there is other game modes, there is other builds that u hurt with changes. and no it is not fun to be a utilitybot in wvw since u nerfed mes to the ground in wvw.

emilejuggernaut.1864:

Yeah i find that all i hear on ts is veil from the commander then im done for the fight. It’s a rather bad state to be in compared to my necro where is marks wells charge in with plague gg.

yup leveled a necro and omg i can actually enjoy the fights. i can spam aoes like a boss and can support my team with wells and marks, while weaken the enemy.
on my mes, commander:“veil veil veil veilv eilveil veil veil tw veil veil veil, pull, veil veil veil, tw,portal, veil veil, tw, veil veil veil veil, pull, feedback, veil , tw…”
“why are u scrub dead?”
“i was infront with u because of veil.”
“well then get out of the zergball. "
“well u wanted feedback so i only have 1 blink to defend myself and it was on cd.”

Ansau.7326:

That’s the problem. Our class is based in AI, which sucks in zergs. Also, our traits are distributed in such a horrible way, it becomes a completely mess and impossible to take most of support/lockdown traits that would work on zergs.
So we’re only taken for our utilities (Veil, Null Field, Portal and TW).

There has been some threads both on Mesmer and Profession Balance discussing this problem. Hope devs listen to us…

what traits are useful in wvw?……..

yeah it has been reported several times, but no response no fix no nothing. i hate standing below an unbuilt oit and cant hit it. i hate that my phantasms always go into full cd and consistently fail and now the iwarden bug, the blink bug, the ileap bug. seriously anet, before nerfing everything because of our 1v1 performance and ignoring that we need buffs in wvw, could u at least try to fix those bugs?

Pyroatheist.9031:

Iavra.8510:

Seeing that you don’t play for that long, according to your own post, perhaps i should clarify one thing to you:

ArenaNet hates mesmers.

Let me try to clarify further. They don’t hate mesmers, they simply don’t understand them. The changes they make are in the name of some arcane ‘balance’ that ultimately doesn’t work because they have no clue what they’re doing, and the changes to Mesmer are made from the perspective of people that don’t even begin to understand the class. They simply don’t understand.

very much this. our next buffs will be:
a new mantra that hits 1 target if its not moving
elite clone, dodges twice in a row and has 100 more hp and 5% more dmg than regular clone
when interrupting a foe u get 1 second of regen
berseker, now spins from left to right instead of right to left
iwarden now finally spawns again, only refelcts 3 projectiles in 900 range
mimic: hits 5 targets when releasing projectile,range 200

yeah slave is a good description. if u play mes, u always have to be on top of commander. always veil ready, always veil traited for lower cd, then there are pulls required maybe and then tw and they might also ask u to use feedback.
i have to pretend im using focus and pretend im using pulls so i can use a power pu build which helps me survive in this terrible cc spam. i have to give up everything that helps me survive to serve my purpose as a veil/portal/tw bot. no freedom just veil veil veil.
u are not meant to deal dmg, u are not a caster, u are a utilitybot. then anet breaks the best phantasm iwarden and now we cant even reflect omegas well anymore. anet plays other classes and because of our 1v1 abilities, we will never see buffs. we will get more mantras which are horrible to use in a zerg, sry iknow some of u use it but i find it terrible that i have to recharge a skill or stand there with nothing to attack.

we need aoe that is non ai like the glamour build was.if u have a gamemode that is about group play all classes should be able to contribute, not just GWEN trains everywhere. as a light armor being force into the duelist role without an option to spec for groupplay is terrible.
people always say, but u are support and all that. no we are utilitybots, not support. we provide a veil for 3 sec and a tw for 10 sec and the rest of the fight u will try to stay alive, but cant really kill anything. u are a light armor and stay with the casters but your aoe dmg is a joke. the 1v1 balance will keep bringing nerfs to us as anet refuses to balance wvw and spvp differently. thats why in wvw balance is completely broken. it was more balanced when wvw and pve were handled the same and spvp was different. the glam nerf was wayy too much and now we are stuck and unable to ever receive buffs in wvw, because of spvp!

its just sad the nerfs always hit the wrong builds…and in wvw we are already bottom feeders/veilbots. but anet will never admit that the mesmer needs buffs in wvw as they are blindsided by spvp and see the mes through war eyes!

yeah if they do that. i would like to get my rabid gear refund as after the 50% plus bb nerf of confusion for mes. my entire build was made useless. it was nerfed so hard it was completely un viable. so id like that refund then too.
u guys are dealing with 10% imaging about 60%.

Nyanko.7689:

- Critical Infusion – increased recharge from 5s to 10s. Too much dodging in this game and it is a 5 pt trait so we want you to find an alternative source for vigor. It couples too well with Deceptive Evasion.
- Deceptive Evasion is problematic – we are making it so that it only make a clone when you don’t have clones out already.

Well… Take a deep breath…
It’s okay. Somehow.
It’s okay to nerf too strong builds (even if it’s my favorite), but why, ANet, why so deep?

It would be much fairer to include internal cooldown 5-10s to Deceptive Evasion, than this.

well since the massive glamour nerf they did( none of the other classes apart from bm rangers has ever had an entire build nerfed by over 60%), nothing surprises me anymore. the dev’s play war mainly and dont know anything about mes. thats why they dont understand how all the nerfs destroyed the wvw mes and turned us into veilbots. i mean they buffed mantras…ever tried a pure mantra build? and then dived into a zerg? yeah try to recharge that stupid mantra in this cc meta the mantra just doesnt fit the game very well as most of the classes just can use their skills while mantras are useless if u get immobilized while trying to recharge, etc.

most of our bugs have not even been adressed yet. the iwarden is so broken atm that id either doesnt spawn at all or just stands there.

they broke it and now we are stuck with it same with ileap, the obstructed bugs, blinking on bridges, etc. iwarden was my fave phantasm and now is useless. can we either have a fix or simply remove it and give us an aoe instead?

actually, yes in a small fight its very easy to dodge, but sometimes there are some monkeys out there that do this to u in a zerg. killshot or not 16 for this kind of armor is too much. its hard to dodge that in the middle of a groupfight. same with eviscerate, plus u also could be out of dodges when it happens.
i dodged this many times, but i did get hit by it a couple of times too.

Aberrant.6749:

BlackDevil.9268:

Hm maybe because… mesmer doesn’t have any support feature besides veil and quickness? Which is like 1/100 of your gametime?
Yes ele got that because ele is actually balanced in WvW. Just like how mesmer should be.

O.k. ’’bro’’, Let’s see what I’ve done on my mesmer:
- I’ve been/am in the best GvG WvW guild of the game
- 2700h gametime, played mesmer from 1 month after release.
- I’ve been probably roaming more than 99% of the ppl watching the forum most likely
- I’ve pretty much tried every single build in raid, aswell as in roaming. That’s pretty much part of my trial-error to make builds like my roaming and raid one linked on my twitch channel and forum.

So yes, I think I got a bit better perspective than 99% of the mesmers on here. Especially on the WvW part.

Oh right, the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im3-jm3mCHI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUhZzGGaedp6XFdS9iUBUBxw

This weeks ESL was even better to watch. Sizer just totally destroying helseth at the 2nd fight every time he was alive.

You don’t have problems against thieves because you fight kittenters that think backstab is super op in spvp and then die 2 seconds later or you’re using PU in spvp and you pretty much can’t hold any point.

Mes was the 2nd one I got to 80, started on her at about week 2. I like my mes a lot, got her bifrost and it’s a profession that I still play regularly. I’m not some mes hater by any means. I’ve done both roaming and large group stuff too

Yea it’s not a lot of your gameplay time, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing imo. Must every profession be good at constant largescale actions? If so they have a LOT of work on their hands. I don’t see what’s inherently wrong with veil/null/tw then more periphery type work after that.

I wasn’t trying to be condescending when I suggested using a class that offers different things for large scale fights if that’s what you’re looking for. Different classes are better at different things in different ways. I like that variety. It gives more options for different types of players. I like my thief and eng a lot as well, but there are better classes for that consistent large scale gameplay. That’s part of why I play ele as well. I don’t have a problem with that (and that’s where I think we differ greatly).

I agree backstab isn’t the best thing ever in sPvP and I don’t do high level sPvP so that might be why I don’t have problems against them.

I’ll be sure to check out the vids tomorrow

well yes we got some stuff for 1v1!but a game that offers a gamemode where they have massive battles should make sure that all classes can be part of it. there is no tank, healer,dps in gw2, so the mes is lacking a looot in this aspect. although i agree with u that mes is special, after the confusion nerf, mes never has gotten anything back in order to be very useful in large groups. not everyone likes to be a roamer. if i wanted to roam ill go spvp, not wvw. i enjoy large scale fights, but with my mes i simply feel like im only there to veil and tw and for the rest of the fight ill hit 1 or 2 targets, dont manage to kill them and stand on the side and hopefully live long enough for my second tw.

oh well maybe after they nerfed all the duelist stuff to the ground we can finally get stuff for wvw. large scale fights require less duelist and more aoe for mesmer. i vote for hexes!

oh now i get it. oh never really saw that happening very often and i would not use portal in spvp anyways. cd too long and i could really use other utilities than portal.

Pyroatheist.9031:

SnubFighter.7613:

Personal Thoughts(On your reactions):
I’m not saying people shouldn’t voice their concerns, but have some general respect. I understand that everyone wants the game to be enjoyable and perhaps the developers don’t all play or understand a specific class to the fullest. Do you think each of the developers has the time to play each class the same? How many hours have you put into mastering Mesmer? They have lives and they have to think and develop this game in the same amount of time that all of us fit our lives and work habits into. Would you really want people to disrespect you for what is likely a decision by a team as a whole? Would you listen to people that are disrespectful?

In order to PvP effectively, I know almost every single skill on every single class and how it works. I know all the class mechanics. I know how to counter them. I know these because I want to play well.

As balance devs, it is THEIR JOB to know what I know as a PvP player. That is what they do. They balance this game. How can they possibly hope to balance if their knowledge is not equal to that of PvPers?

well said pyro. the devs should know about their classes and all their skills and functions, the way the devs talked about mes almost sounded like a warrior raging about pu mes. no clue about no nothing. that also explains why they paniced and overnerfed glamour builds the way they did. another proof of them not knowing anything about the classes was the introduction of perplexity runes and other patches that created a terrible meta.

errr wat?………………………………

or maybe multiboxing. 5-6 people hit u all at the exact same second. 0 health left

i warden:
since the i warden patch, the phantasms 95% of the time just stands there and does nothing, it never hits anything anymore in a zerg at all.

ileap:
doesnet work on certain bridges, uphill or down hill or on stairs ever.

obstructed bug:
i can literally stand below unbuilt oil and will never be able to hit it as i get obstructed. i stand below the cannon try to spawn a berserker and get obstructed and phantasm goes into full cd. the los on phantasms and mes skills is way too strict and often bugged.

blink:
sometimes u blink and u hit the location for less than a second before u end up back at the location u started from, blink does not wok on most of the strais, hills and 90% of the bridges in the game.

decoy, sometimes doesent work at all and doesent give u stealth or a clone despite having no revealed debuff.

confusing images, has issues to hit if target is beside u but still slightly infront.

magic bullet: even if u are facing the target u cant use it while strifing left or right even if u are facing the target.

some of these bugs have been in the game for ever and never been fixed.

wow this stream. sry dont wanna be rude to anet, but your statements about mes and everything u said which was not even 3 minutes, shows me u guys never played a mesmer in wvw in battles. i dare u anet to make a lvl 80 mes and go fight in zergs and zergbusting groups for a week, then come back and talk about mesmers.
u can have all my clones and phantasms and remove all mantras if u give us something viable for wvw that is not stupid veilbot!!!!!!!

u have never even tried to fix the obstructed bug(i can literrally stand right below a cannon and get the obstructed bug), los bug, iwarden, ileap, blink on bridges, phase retreat bugs that glitches u into walls and under the map or even inside hills. the mantra buffs were a joke, try to use that in a zerg. i am not really mad about the de nerf as in wvw i have only 1 illusion up anyways, and all the phantasms die in seconds, i warden is beyond broken and just stands there without even attacking since u broke it. seriously delete the whole ai already so we can actually be a viable light armor class. we are not a medium armor class that needs to be a duelist, we are light armor, so give us aoe that is not ai based. aoe, not veil!

Pyroatheist.9031:

cyyrix.6105:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Edit: I will say it does irk me that Jon Peters, the man responsible for a lot of the balance in this game, seems to lack a basic understanding of how Mesmer illusions work, when he falsely corrects another guy that said DE could overwrite phantasms.

Agreed. It really shows a lack of understanding about mesmer mechanics. Roy was right about overwriting phantasms. Furthermore, Peters’ lack of differentiation between clones/phantasms/illusions is quite confusing. In fact the entire overview of the nerf just sounded like gibberish:

“You were either cheesing it, or you were having it disrupt the flow of your gameplay. And it wasn’t really serving a non-cheesing or non-feeling broken moment…and so, if you’re full clones, we’re not gonna create a new one.”

WAT?

Yeah, pretty much. I was just watching it and thinking “…the balance of this game is in the hands of this guy? GW2 is doomed.”

Edit: Bet ya a gold they don’t fix the warden either.

agreed. they simply dont get the mesmer or even try to make an effort to fix stuff like ileap, iwarden, the obstructed issues wher u can stand litteraly below the kitten cannon and not hit it, blinking on bridges. then they buff mantras which have such a tiny radius that we have to go in the middle of a kitten zerg inorder to use them. phantasms are affected by cc and can get killed, so where is this light armors aoe? ever heard of a metorshower being interrupted by a hammerstun? thats right it cant get interrupted, but phantasms like iwarden and the horrible torch phantasm make it hard to even compete in wvw. veil, veil, veil, veil, veil and tw and veil and veil and veil again and then guilds will ask u to trait for glamours so veil has shorter cd, u cant use the torch because they want the pull u have to take feedback and they completely ignore the fact that u wanna stay alive too.
the torch phanta could for exmple do a fire aoe instead of the stupid slow attack that fails because it is soooooooooooo slow.
seriously anet go play mes in wvw for a week and not roam, go zerg and then come back and talk about your awesome balance!

Aberrant.6749:

Link to vid and I’ll watch it (prolly tomorrow with reset tonight and all). Overall I have very few problems with thief as mes… but build choices can make a large difference though, so I would need to see it.

Thief should have more mobility than a mes. That’s not to say that mes isn’t VERY good with in combat mobility though.

It makes total sense. You don’t seem to like the group support features that mesmer brings…. ele has a lot what I think you’re asking for in a mesmer.

Asking for mes to have more aoe damage etc. while keeping all of what it has now just sounds OP as all kitten (not saying that you’re asking for that)… and I know there are many that don’t want to have mesmer’s dueling side nerfed.

Almost everyone thinks they are right 100% bro… that doesn’t mean much to say stuff like that. If anything it just makes you look very stubborn.

Tbh… I agree with the deceptive evasion nerf. In its current form almost everyone would still take it even if it was a GM trait. It needed to be changed or bumped up to GM. My mes is a little sad, but I totally understand their reasoning.

support abilities?
oh yeah there is nullfield. massive cd, works slow and well of corruption is 10times better.
feedback: lol. what projectiles do u refelct? oh and not to mention the massive retal dm u get while using it. try to use it on a retal zerg and u get downed intantly. btw sooo how is that refelction going vs the heavy train? oh yeah there is none.

veil:yeah they want us to trait for it as it has a 1min cooldown, which makes a lot of builds not possible. veil is all that we have that it different from the other classes.

tw: seriously a 240sec cd for a little bit of quickness? pshhh. u dont even deal dmg and it only affects 5 people. ugh.

so what else do we have? dont even try to say mantras as the range is a joke, so i actually have to run in the middle of the zerg in order to use it and try to recharge a mantra in a massive fight. i’d rather have that stuff removed.
if i could get aoe on my mes, i would even give alllll my darn clones to thieves if this is what it takes, or give it to war so at least i am allowed to have aoe as a light armor.
gw1 es was soo much better than gw2 es. gw2 mes just seems like fake medium armor class.

well maybe the nerfs anet is giving us this patch can maybe open a few paths to the new skills that HOPEFULLY are NOTTTTTT 1v1 stupid skills , but FINALLY useful in WVW! we dont need more mantra buffs. i dont like using mantras and think they are annoying to use if u have to keep recharging them while none of the other classes needs to charge any of their skills that do the exact same thing! remove mantras and turn them into hexes that are aoe. get rid of the endless clones ai spams and give me aoe. make weapons like scepter more compeditive. fix or remove torch phantasm or make it do an aoe instead of 1 slow hit. fix or remove i warden or turn it into an aoe.
fix illusinary leap. fix the los issues where u litterally stnt below unbuilt oil and cant hit it because of obstructed. dont make phantasms go into full cooldow if obstructed.. stuff like this could help the wvw mes, but when i watched the balance team i already knew how much they dont want togive us anything.fun for wvw mes. thats why i suggest rework mes completely. remove the whole duelist traits and abilities, remove mantras, remove phantasms, remove clones and start fresh!

origano.5912:

Big Tower.5423:

Thief nerfed into oblivon in wvwvw roaming (our last place we’re viable)

You are WRONG ! we are good farmer too with Cluster Bomb hahaha !

Anyway, Life of the Thief
Created
Nerfed
Deleted

i understand u guys being scarred and also that it is terrible if your fave build gets hit. every class, apart from war, feels the same way.

mes: glamour nerfed by almost 60% making it completely useless, turned wvw mesmers into veilbots

ranger: were part of wvw, had their monment of shine with bm rangers. now are a complete joke in wvw.guild recruitment threds: hardcore wvw guild looking for war,guards, necro and eles. no rangers please!

d/d eles: got hit so hard that barely anyone in na plays them nowadays

engi: were bad and full of bus, got buffs and finally got a little spot in wvw zergs and boom nerfed again.

so u see everyone is going through this. but lets see what tuesday brings and maybe 1 or 2 of the changes will help u guys in other areas. it would be great if thief, ranger, mes could finally be part of large scale fights in future and not just gangers, roamers or veilbots.

yes, please anet. please! my stupid 1v1 mesmer in spvp prevents my beloved wvw mesmer from getting any buffs. its boring to be a veil, tw bot. i would love to have something like our glamour builds back for wvw(yes not the full 100% dmg glamours did before). anet nerfed mesmers in zergs to the ground and NEVER ever gave us anything back to be part of the zerg again. all we do is veil, maybe a little nullfield here and ther and then a feedback that doesn no dmg as barely anyone uses projectiles. confusion which is our core condi hits like a wet noodle and is harder to stack than for an engi, and all we get is useless mantras, that noone really uses in a large scale fight.

rangers same thing. keep getting nerfed because of spvp and being a complete joke in wvw.
meanwhile GWEN trains are dominating wvw.

Big Tower.5423:

selan.8354:

wow, overreacting much? 10% is nothing confusion got hit by 50% plus bb trait nerf plus the so called bug fix. that around 60% nerf for glam mes making it completely unon viable and also turned mesmer into roamers only or utilitybots in large group fights.
thats a nerf. 10%? big deal now instead of criting a light armor for 8-13k it will be less and u actually have to work for your kills. maybe try less glass and a little toughness if u are scarred.
also anet stated like mentioned above, that something positive is coming. maybe u will get some more utilities that help u in large scale fights. i hope mes and thief will get some love for their wvw large scale fights. so we can actually be more than just the gankers or veilbots.

Turned mesmer into roamers and utlity bots? Well we thieves where only roamers and now we’re not gonna be that either effectivly = nothin. and you seems to have no idea on how thief works, a little less glass…. get some toughness… learn thief.

i actually have a lvl 80 thief and yes it is much fun to crit people and burst them down. like i said, i would love to see some changes for the thief though for group play. u will probably still have the ganking role in wvw, but at least your victim has some time to react. but dont freak out yet. if on tuesday with all the changes to the runes and stats u feel still the same way, then lets discuss about how to improve other aspects of the thief.
there is lots of room for improvement.
my mes is getting hit too, but i see it not as bad as the de trait was sometimes annoying as it overrides phantasms. lets see what happens on tuesday.

wow, overreacting much? 10% is nothing confusion got hit by 50% plus bb trait nerf plus the so called bug fix. that around 60% nerf for glam mes making it completely unon viable and also turned mesmer into roamers only or utilitybots in large group fights.
thats a nerf. 10%? big deal now instead of criting a light armor for 8-13k it will be less and u actually have to work for your kills. maybe try less glass and a little toughness if u are scarred.
also anet stated like mentioned above, that something positive is coming. maybe u will get some more utilities that help u in large scale fights. i hope mes and thief will get some love for their wvw large scale fights. so we can actually be more than just the gankers or veilbots.

Big Tower.5423:

Thieves are now nerfed into oblivon for roaming too, we cant play the game anyoMORE! pull you self together anet. or start selling waffles on the street instead of making games.

10 percent nerf is not that big of a deal. glamours were nerfed by almost 60 percent in wvw. that is a harsh nerf. 10 percent u can deal with. the crit on thief was simply too much. in wvw u can crit light armors for around 8-11k.

so mes gets another “fix” based on spvp. anet completely ignores the wvw mes. all they see is spvp spvp spvp. they nerfed the raid mes to the ground of the grounds and refuse to rebuff or give us anything in return. its because they dont play mes ever in wvw zergs. they only play war! this is getting really stupid.
at lest the de nerf is not affecting me at all in wvw. its not a terrible nerf to be quiet honset. but i was soo hoping for a raiding mes buff.

BlackDevil.9268:

Thief was never designed to be a teamplayer proffession whereas mesmer actually was.
But like you say, mesmer is stronger than thief in almost everything. Yes, almost. Thief is stronger in tPvP than mesmer and it should never lose a 1v1 when the mesmer is player a tpvp shatter build.

Here we come to the same problem again, PU builds. Like listed above we got nerfed to hell in raid perspective. But what did we get back? Right, more roaming traits, which PU is 1 of them.

‘’Mesmer does have amazing aoe utility though. That’s part of what sets it apart from other classes.’’

Sorry… what? Amazing? That amazing to set us apart from other classes?
Okay let’s see:
Our main skills we use in raid are:
1. Null Field – Necro’s have a Well that’s better than our null field. Itpractically does the same, but also makes the boons into conditions.

2. Feedback – Atm, when fighting against guilds, you will reflect almost nothing. But when you do, it’s #1 spam of either their eles or necro’s cause they have everything on cooldown. The amount of damage you do with those skills is like really, really low since mesmers are now forced to go really tanky, whereas the damage is based on your statts and your traits.
You will probably notice more of the retaliation you get than the raid notices something of your feedback.

3. Veil – This, seriously, this is (if we talk about in-combat) one of the 2 skills that sets us apart from other professions. 2 skills. That’s mesmer.

4. Time Warp – The 2nd skill that sets us apart from other prof. But actually if you think about it, it’s an elite. Idk if Elites should set you apart from other prof in raids. It’s not like: ‘’Oh he got that elite which is better than that other dudes elite so I’m gonna pick him’’. With a cooldown of 210 seconds I would never rely on a mesmer making a huge change in a battle.

Lets see…. What else… Hm… Nope, that was it pretty much. 4 skills, all utility’s. None of them besides veil is better than other utility’s other classes have.

So we come to the same topic again veilbot!

You know, I’ve been running tankier because I’ve had enough of my leader being a kitten when I die. But it’s still funny. Even when I go tankier, I notice that I only die when my guardian in my pt is not at the fight or died earlier than me. I can only just bomb a little bit longer, but deal less damage.
So it’s funny to see we rely so much on 1 prof to make our own prof workable.

We need something that doesn’t require you to go squishy to actually deal damage.
We need something that other professions don’t have yet or which they are not as good at as us.
We need something that sets us apart from other professions, veil only is not doing that
We need something that makes our prof fun in raids/zergs again. Atm I almost fall asleep of boringness, how epic the fight may be. I only get satisfied atm if I hear sac complimenting my placement of skills, so I get the illusion that I’m doing something usefull. Isn’t that funny? I pretty much get mesmerised as a mesmer…

+1
this summerrizes exactly what is wrong with raid mes atm. couldnt have said it better.

Aberrant.6749:

It’s fine as is imo. Mes is metter than thief in a duel… better than a thief in large groups… mes shouldn’t be the first priority when it comes to this.

so, u enjoy being a veilbot then? because thats what we are. veil/tw,portal are the main reason why organized guild groups have 1-2 mes with them. yes thief needs help in that area too, but this shouldnt be the reason why mes cant have a buff. id rather see a redesign, than keeping a light armor class as a 1v1 duelist class only. then make the mes a medium armor class. in every mmo i played a light armor had great aoe and ranged attacks and duelists were medium armor as they do have to get closer in combat. light armor is squishy.

shimmerless.4560:

No one is grabbing your hand and making you play Prismatic, as for the rest I would prefer we roll back to the Mesmer of the past before saturating the game with even moar AoE.

yeah u dont have to use pu at all, but in a zerg situation i find it useful for survival. i just wish instead of my berserker i had more aoe type of attacks that i can use ranged. after all mes is a light armor class and shouldnt have to run in the middle of a zerg in order tu use bf or certain mantras. also lots of our main abilities are single target. as a roamer i gotta say im very happy with mes. its very strong and has great survivabilities. i do miss the glamour builds as they were great vs mindless zergs.
war had to actually think before mashing buttons. a 35 dmg reduction to confusion would have been already quiet good, but the bb nerf and 50% dmg reduction was an overrreaction. thieves can spam blind warrirs can spam cc’s so mes had confusion spam and got nerfed into the ground of the grounds, war gets a little shave…. how about anet checking if that nerf couldnt get a little buff, or giving the mes a trait that increases confusin dmg by 15-25 percent or so. then we actually could spec into it again and have viable aoe

XJamo.1930:

Iv noticed in almost every match i play of sPvP i go to a point to find a minion master necro or a mesmer waiting for me with there pets this isn’t PvP please fix it nerf AI

sure nerf my phantasms and clones that have like no health or power at all. if u give me better weaponskills and viable aoe that is not si based im glad to give up all my ai!

Ghanto.9784:

Strongly agree. I wrote a very general summation of my experience of trying to find a raid build I could be happy with after the 10 December patch:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Having-a-hard-time-sticking-to-my-mesmer/first#post3477946

Still not actually playing my Mesmer, because WvW is what I enjoy most and my Mesmer just isn’t cut out for large-scale fights. With the Mesmer, it’s more a case of “making do” with what you have.

yeah as a mesmer u have less freedom as u ALWAYS have to use veil and then they will ask u for feedbacks and pulls. u are allowed to use blink but that about it. ne defense no real offense, just a utilitybot that has to try to saty alive in the terrible cc meta! anet pleast u can have my stupid clones and phantasms if this is what it takes for u to give me aoe that is NOT ai based and actually useful in zergs!

Jitters.9401:

First off..
1) I have both at 80 and geared for WvW. I’ve played both from Zerk spec to Condition Spec. The Thief is my favorite though. I play it with only shadow refuge and hide in shadows as my stealth. I REFUSE to play the extremely cheap way.

2) There are certain ways of playing them which is by far overpowered against any class. There needs to be a balance and fairness across the board.

3) The over powered/stupid way uses no skill but, in most cases macros and therefore no fun. It is easy to see who macros in abilities so one key press does multiple actions. Fixing the stealth issues will stop a lot of this.

4) The blackpowder/heartseeker stealth means the thief can have near permanent regeneration going on during combat. “Shadow Protector” gives base 1738 health over 10 seconds. Shadow Rejuv heals you each second you are in stealth. I get around 500 health per tick for the two combined. 12 seconds of invis due to shadow refuge alone will get me about 6000 health. Add in the HS stealth and that is another 2000 health in 4 seconds. who cares about heal debuffs when stealth can be applied at will until all damage is negated.

Want to fix stealth for thief? Put a reveal on the stealth which comes from blackpowder/heartseeker. 4 seconds which means right after the backstab they cannot restealth and just keep regening health non stop like so many do. Makes it fair for those classes who cannot stealth and heal up when ever they feel like it.

Want to fix stealth for Mesmer? Give their stealth a reveal. On my thief I use 2 and only two stealths, which are abilities and have reveal. On my mesmer I have 3 different stealth abilities and no reveal. With all the dodging and clones I have the stealth just makes me impossible to kill unless I get jumped by three or more enemies.

So.. Like I said. These are the two classes I play for WvW and I find them both far too powerful when using the stealth mechanics the abusive way. My fix is what I would like to see for the classes in order to make them wvw on par with other classes. But for now… my choice is to play them the non ridiculous way.

erm ther is a reveal on mes. at all time. plus our stealth is on long cd we just time it right. plus i play pu power build and it is not skilless at all. a pu mes needs to be played well in order to be effective. i kill pu mes all the time as they are terrible and just try to play a new popular build.
you are complaining in wvw about a 1v1 situation. well pu is almost the only way to survive in a zerg as a mes atm. yes mes is super strong in 1v1 and if u want it nerfed, fine by me , as i finally can get a buff for large groupfights and zergs for my mes. mes has to spec 30 into a defensive trait for pu which 1 sec more stealth and buffs. and none of those buffs are stability which is what kills pu mes anyways. cc and condis will still destroy mes.

alright, as much as some servers sometimes come up with massive numbers which can be a pain, this is wvw. its a game mode where lots of people fight eachother. every game that has wvw game modes has zergs. stop whining about it already! this is what this game mode is about. yes havoc groups are a ton of fun, but wvw is also fun if u are in the middle of an epic battle. i run with a zergbusting guild and its fun to rush 40+ with our 18-20 people. a 50man zerg can be wiped by 20 people as it is pretty hard to coordinate such a big number. in a 50 man zerg u will find tons of rallybots and squishies. yes i have actually defended a keep vs 40-50 with only 10-15 defenders. if u want to roam or only have 10vs 10 fights then either move to a lower server or go spvp. in the mid to high tiers u will see massive groups. all the suggestions i have seen so far is punishing players to play the game they want to.