Guild Wars 2

Amok Threeohthree.8501:

http://ttsgamers.com/

recruitment open again from 1st of Feb, you can join the waiting list now

I am aware of that. This patch hits before the 1st of Febuary, so I am looking for someone to run with for that.

Sina.9208:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

If you look around there are hints all over. I’ve figured out quite a bit from different interviews with staff and quotes they drop here and there to get a rather decent idea how this new world boss is gonna work. http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/14/exclusive-preview-of-guild-wars-2s-origin-of-madness-release/

No new features, or rewards are listed.

Most people are more interested in new features than LS, therefore less new features and more LS. Logic.

Alarmist just slightly.

I imagine that the new world bosses will be next to impossible to complete in a pug just like Teq. Taking that into consideration, are there any Cross-Server World Boss guilds out there that are recruiting?

Darkstar.6178:

timidobserver.7925:

I was sort of okay with the article until I reached the Game of Thrones comparison. That sort of leads me to believe that Anet might actually believe that Scarlet’s story is… good story telling? George RR Martin could do better than Scarlet if he were deprived of Oxygen.

To me the comparison would fall flat IF they were saying the LS is on the same level as A Song of Ice and Fire , with all its myriad plot lines. However, this is the content of the paragraph:

“By its conclusion, Season One will have been developing for 15 months. What ArenaNet wanted to create was a complex plot that kept people theorising and speculating in the same way a show like A Game of Thrones (and the book series A Song of Fire and Ice beyond that) does – to have “people realise what the power of having a video game that can tell a story like a television show is”."

To my mind, this says only that they wanted to make it complex and keep people guessing. Well, they kinda did that…I saw a lot of people stating “I wonder what Scarlet is doing with these things this time.” Just because we know who is behind it doesn’t mean we know how things are going to work out, or really even WHY she is doing it.

It’s certainly not BAD storytelling. I mean, it’s not like a janitor from New Jersey got exposed to toxic waste and became a super hero. NO one would EVER watch something like that, right?

The way they are doing the story is the complete opposite of the type of story the The Game of Thrones tells. It isn’t a matter of levels or degrees. They are literally two different types of story telling.

The Scarlet story line is not complex at all. Random != Complex. They apply just about every fantasy trope or stereotype that exists, whereas the Game of Thrones goes out of its way to avoid doing that when possible. I am not wondering what Scarlet is doing at all.

For example, the story of the Old Republic sales. The game kind of fell off, but the books did very well. If the story of Scarlet were turned into a book, it would sell less than 100 copies unless it was marketed as an ages 7-11 book.

I have to agree. If someone asks if their action is an exploit, they should get a direct, cut & dry, clear answer.

I was sort of okay with the article until I reached the Game of Thrones comparison. That sort of leads me to believe that Anet might actually believe that Scarlet’s story is… good story telling? George RR Martin could do better than Scarlet if he were deprived of Oxygen.

George RR Martin with his IQ reduced to 10 and deprived of Oxygen could do better than Scarlet and all of the random baseless events that the story has been based on. A story more like The Game of Thrones is what GW2 needs.

It would be easier to just introduce mechanics that zerker can’t survive.

Most MMOs have to do multiple servers per platform. This means servers for PS4, Servers for XBOX and Servers for PC. I doubt that Anet really wants to manage all of that.

WRay.2391:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I do believe that economics played an important role in the Ascended decision. We’ll never know what might have happened if ANet had opted to provide the promised horizontal/cosmetic progression rather than shallow vertical progression. They had the opportunity to push the alternative MMO progression they advertised. However, it doesn’t take an economist to realize that adding Ascended Rings and a back-piece took a lot less resources than developing the robust options for skill-based and/or cosmetic progression that would have been needed for HP.

It also doesn’t take a programmer to realize the difficulty of retooling some things which are desperately called for (ranger pets, “DPS is king”, “Traherne killed my story”) are expensive in employee hours and requirement for creating new assets in some cases to handle it without botching.

Right now, Arenanet has their focus on finishing out their Living World “Season 1” with Scarlet. They have their CDI notes, but we know nothing significant and quick is going to come out of them.

Even if they hit the brakes right now on everything else and started working on something purely horizontal progression, we would probably be . . . I’ll say three months from seeing it hit live release.

During which, there’s the risk of people departing because there’s no longer anything to do except wait.

Yeah. If ANET will not change things until D3 RoS will be released I’m out. Grinding for gear is much more fun in D3 as it was DESIGNED for this. You get gear by killing monster – simple what about this game is. And Blizzard at least heard players – no more RMAH, loot better, mystic that will allow to change stats on the gear.

GW2 was designed to not have gear grind. They added it but didn’t give any new content with it. Like really ?! I need to go and grind for middle tier mats with my lvl 80 char in low level zones ?! Best design ever !

Your point is absolutely the only valid point I have ever seen against vertical progression. I am for vertical progression, but I agree entirely that it is pretty lame to release a new gear tier with no content to support it.

Instead, you go and farm eons of low level mats or….. convert money to gems and buy the mats.

Seera.5916:

If he did it (or someone else does it) for the sole intention of disrupting a farm, then that would be griefing. This one is the hardest to prove unless you get screenshots of the person saying they did it to cause problems.

However, nothing in the OP’s post gives any indication of whether or not he was doing it to spite the farmers or not. His word choice gives high chances that he did do it to spite the farmers, but it’s not 100% that he did it. His wording could simply because he’s angry at yet another group of farmers getting mad at him for playing the game as intended.

The problem isn’t the farm trains. The farm trains are just a symptom of a variety of problems:

1. Not enough real fun, challenging, and appropriately rewarding content is available. Dungeons are really the only thing and they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea and most people like variety.

2. Best gear currently requires a TON of material. Demand is high. Currently supply on the TP is not high and prices have therefore gone up. Makes going out to get the mats yourself cheaper if you know where you can go to get them quickly and for cheap.

3. Said mats for the above requires tons of Bolts of Damask. Which require various threads. Threads come from salvaging only. Or from bags of loot. Which means going out and killing things and hoping you get the right mat out of the salvage.

2 & 3 will likely calm down over the course of the next few months as most people get their gear and more ways to get the gear will hopefully come out that do not involve crafting (or at least not as much)..

1 is something that ANet can fix. They can add in content that’s fun, challenging, and appropriately rewarding.

Hopefully once season 1 of the living story is over, we’ll start to see content come in that fills that spot.

Farm trains are currently, next to dungeons, the quickest way to earn the most money and mats. So until the above three problems are gone, farm trains will likely be very popular. The solving of the problem will likely not get rid of farm trains completely, but should reduce their size considerably most likely.

I am not lawyer here aiming to prove anything or say that he specifically was aiming to spite them. My post is quite short and the point is clear. If, he was doing it to bother, grief, spite, ect them then he is just as bad if not worse than them. However, if he wanted to complete an event, then he has every right to do so.

Alukah.2063:

He’s not doing anything wrong by going out of his way to complete events because they are meant to be completed, those farming them are exploiting the system.

I make the effort to clearly stating my point, and you still have to misrepresent it.

It all goes to motivation. If his motivation is that he wanted to complete an event, like you said, that is fine. However, if his motivation was to troll them, grief them, or make them mad, then he is no better than them to me.

Given that this sort of thing is still in the game, Anet obviously doesn’t have an issue with it. They have shown that they can close exploits very very quickly and deal out harsh punishments when they find it necessary.

I’d take an obsessive compulsive farmer over a griefer in an MMO any day. Griefers are the major issue with MMOs.

Cause everyone says that I should.

a t s e.9614:

After completing my warrior , getting all the good stuff like legendary and t3 . I tryed to make other classes but I couldnt. Deleted them all around lvl 3. I have tryed different weapon sets in PvP with various builds but its just so dull . I have a thief and those are the only classes I can play .

Thief and warrior are both fast, short cooldowns , very spammy and thats the playstyle I like . When I made a guard it felt like in slowmotion . I made a ranger … I couldnt stand the weakness of ranged weapons . Mesmer was kind of cool but I am a terrible mesmer so I got stomped over and over again.

I cannot play ele because I am too lazy to reach the f1,2,3,4 buttons and the lagg would also make it worse. And the other classes are just meh.

Note: In guild wars 1, I got every class to max level except ritualist and mesmer . I liked them all equally ( warrior and assassin a bit more of course) . All of them had expensive weapons and armors . My ranger , yes the ranger had a storm bow , one of the most expensive weapons back in the day .

But in gw2 the classes feel the same and boring . What’s the difference between warrior’s sword skills , thief, mesmer, guard,ranger? None! All of them have some sort of spammy evading attack and a gap closer . There is 0 difference between sword skills across all the classes. Why would I play anything else besides from warrior and thief ? There’s no reason anyway.

Seriously anet , its time to add new weps and skills . In gw1 they felt all different . The build diversity was amazing . Even my warrior here in gw2 has only 1 viable PvE build and 2 viable pvp builds. And I cant even change the weapon skills…. Why are we so restricted ? The balance is already terrible , dont be afraid to add new skills

I had the same issue at launch when I started playing. The trick it to push through the learning curve. Once you get up to about level 30 of any class, you should have the mechanics down to the point that it is natural. At that point, you can really get some enjoyment out of the class.

I am not sure if the purpose of your thread of just to complain or if you are seeking advice, but I’ll give you my advice anyway. I recommend persevering and leveling any profession to 30 instead of giving up at 3. I bet you’ll be enjoying it by the time you make it to 30. The trick is pushing past the learning curve which might take between 20 and 50 levels depending on which profession you are playing..

Frostfang.5109:

I’ll answer a couple of u… If I do Teq (wich I do once ina great while for fun).. I DO spend that waiting hour doing other stuff. Then I’m hoping not to get an error and end up on overflow being (most likely) unable to sucess….

The farm. Whenever u enter Frsostgorge there is a HUGE train there farming Champs (wich I hate and never take part of). I have been there a couple of times to get some Dragonites for ascended craftng lately. Same goes for the Epyrial shards wich happened to be located at the Troll…. Many ppl in that farm train are Guests. Talk around listen to chat etc and u’ll find out.

I’m perfectly fine with Guild missions… Its an activity that takes part, not just some abusing crazed mega-zerg hysterical farming 24/7.

Tequatl. Most ppl ther are guests as their own server have too few ppl doing it in order to suceed…

Yesterday I ran onto a big Group pf french ppl farming linen on an event that they used (read “abused” instead). I came there and finished the event and that kittened them off quite badly….

Ppl find all ways of using the game, that are not the ways it was intended. When u act in a normal way, like killing a champ because u happened to pass by, doing an event because u pass by, try to get to a World boss on u’r own server… either u kitten ppl off or end up on an oveflow…

My experience is that these things tend to happen to me more often and in more places lately….

I have to play devil’s advocate and say that I find issue with you going out of your way to interrupt them. I could understand entirely if you genuinely intended to do that event because you wanted to do the event. If that was your intent, then tough to them. However, you are no better than them if you went out of your way just to interrupt or troll them them.

This is really Anet’s fault honestly. They are the ones introducing new gear that requires a level of farming that even WoW would be disgusted with. Clearly Anet supports the needs for MASS farming to improve your gear, therefore it is their fault that people are doing whatever they can to farm it.

WvW is part of the world. If you want World Completion you have to go into WvW to get it. It isn’t going to kill you to spend a little time in WvW to grab the points. After all, a WvW player has to a great deal of PVE they have to do in order to get map completion.

Kevan.8912:

as i didn t find a thread talking specifically about it except for old ones and struggles about manifesto, and i think it s “legal” to express my opinion pacifically…

i think that vertical progression hurts my gaming experience.
i feel forced doing dailies, world events, etc…because it s necessary to craft ascended, to avoid any “handicap” when playing with other better geared ppl.
don t care if it s relevant or not that stats difference in wvw o pve. just hate that.

i loved to grind for a title. for skins. i felt really motivated and found it a free choice.
vertical progression binds me to a sense of inferiority, grind like a necessary work to be done for a mandatory aim.
my two cents.

Why don’t those of us that could care less about skins get to have content. I am honestly tired of the skin mill that GW2 has going on.

Your not forced to do anything. Do what you like and other people will do what they like.

Exploiters ruin everything. The salvage limitations originally were put in place due to exploits.

I sit around about 200g usually. Isn’t that hard to maintain. I simply stop spending on anything when my gold goes below 180.

I wouldn’t suggest zerging with 14k xp, but you should be fine roaming with it.

Most people have anywhere from 2 to 5 gear sets to swap in based on what they are doing.

This sounds like socialism to me.

lordkrall.7241:

So because of the fact that they revamped Fractals and added Ascended Armor (which had been known for a YEAR before it actually came btw) you can no longer enjoy the content you enjoyed before?

Are you sure you really enjoyed the content before then? Because none of that content have been changed in the slightest with any of those releases (unless you only wanted to do fractals, but they haven’t really seen much change either (other than adding some extra challenge)).

In your post it says “none of that content have been changed in the slightest with any of those releases.” Hello, this is what his problem is. He says it pretty clearly.

He is saying that the content was enjoyable, but it has gotten old and he isn’t really interesting in being forced to grind it even more for ascended gear. He wants new content instead.

Azure Prower.8701:

Two things I’d like to point out. They stated they “hope this will be the last tier they introduce.” Not that it will be.

They’ve also mentioned the idea of raising the level cap as a certainty in future. Meaning all your level 80 gear? Worthless.

So they have a few more tricks up their selves for vertical progression grinding than you think.

Of course not that I’m berating them on such. Only if they throw it in like they did with ascended gear: “Here’s a grind and nothing else. Have fun!”

I could understand your viewpoint if Exotic gear was like raid gear that you could only obtain once weekly. Exotic gear is hilariously easy to obtain. It shouldn’t take longer than 2-3 days of casual play for any player to build a full exotic set of gear. I don’t really see the issue with increasing the level cap as long as ascended and legendary gear automatically upgrades to the max level.

Assuming that this level cap raise comes with new content, I wouldn’t have an issue with building an upgraded set of exotic gear via large quantities of new content.

I definitely agree that I don’t care for the offensive style of PVE in GW2. I’ve always been a fan of defensive play, but building for defense is utterly useless in most GW2 PVE atm.

WvW has more freedom. I can bring my character into it as they are.

This is the reason why I am going to avoid ascended armor. I swap gear pieces in and out way to much to be limiting myself to one ascended set.

You know that you are a GW2 veteran when you’ve said screw it to questions like the one presented in this thread and just went and leveled any profession you are even remotely interested in playing to 80.

The biggest thing is to force them to pop their plague asap and then back off and recover while it is up. Then burn them down once they’ve burned the plague.

I would Spvp more if it awarded badges of honor.

mesme.5028:

It may appear to look as thou this is a qq thread but it’s not my intention,
The devs look like really nice peeps and im sure they are, they just have a nice way about them and i like them, i wonder thou what actually happened with gw2.

Things from the manifesto are quite the opposite, grind for example, i am sure the devs have been asked this before but idk, why the change? what happened? was it necessary? was the manifesto a ideal to strive for but in reality not really possible?

Does anyone have any links to the devs explaining why the game isn’t like the manifesto?

Again this isn’t a qq thread, i guess they had to make these changes but id like to know why.

Legendary weapons have been in the game since launch I think. The grind has always been there from day 1.

There isn’t really much different between ascended and legendaries beyond ascended require a lot less RNG and gold.

Bagel.4598:

TheDaiBish.9735:

CoRtex.2157:

can’t actually believe people think there are skills in this game lol :P it’s faceroll, you don’t even have to know what you are doing in a dungeon and you can still complete it easly. OR… OR.. maybe… people confuse skill (like in how good you are) with skills (in like abilities of your class), hmmmmm, wow, mind blown,, i had to dig so deep in to my brain to figure out how n00bs think, it’s like, they are living outside ‘the box’. Mind blown… really..

So what you’re saying is that you’ve never died, and that every dungeon run you did you did first time?

What he is saying is that 90% of this game’s content and it’s mechanics could be done by a monkey in a straight jacket.
There is no need for build organisation between players, or group co-ordination in dungeons.
Anyone, running anything can come and steam roll it.
Jump in to a zerg to do absolutely ANYTHING on the map.
Buy everything you need with gold.
The only exception to anything that requires thought and team work is sPvP, Fractals, Some WvW and maybe Arah.

This post sums it up the best. High Level Fractals, WvW sometimes, and Arah are the only really challenging things in the game. None of those modes really compare to the difficult found in raids in some other games.

Myth: You are actually going to get a precursor.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Reading through a lot of the comments on various class diversification (or just stronger trait/skill diversification) concepts, one of the things that seems to be missing is a discussion on how you’d actually earn/unlock these additional abilities to make it a progression system.

One of the goals of progression, in this case horizontal, is to create an extended sense of game play and thus = reward for playing it.

For example, we’ve added more skills to the game recently, but those simply unlock with skill points, which basically means -> play any part of the game that gives exp, or kill champs to get skill point books. That’s ok as systems of unlocking horizontal progression go for the extended class diversification, but game play wise it generally means find the easiest place to get XP/champ-loot and do it over and over again for a large % of players, since folks most often gravitate towards the path of least resistance.

What sort of systems of horizontal progression unlocking would you like to see that’d accompany a system like extended class progression?

It should be similar to the Signet of Capture system, however I make it a bit more difficult. Give the player a list of X amount of specific named NPCs they have to hunt down, defeat, and use the signet of capture on. They can only completed 1 a day. Once they have completed them all, they get the skill. I would make the NPCs have a chance to spawn in a number of locations across different maps in order to make the chase more difficult.

One area that I find Guild Wars to be lacking in is profession lore, so it would be awesome if you added in a lot of profession specific lore about these skills.

Myst.9182:

I think Ascended hasn’t added anything to the game. Its and effort to appease some people who are craving a reward. Rewarding players is something that Anet is very poor at. But I don’t think gear grinding is the answer.

It makes sense that they would be poor at it. They catered to the cosmetics crowd for the entire duration of GW1. Ascended is really their first foray into anything outside of cosmetic gear. It is new territory for them. I think it was a good idea, because I do believe in functional rewards, but I also I think they handled it pretty poorly. Hopefully they realize that they handled it poorly and will work to rectify the situation as time passes.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Short answer to your evil question= Its not a forced grind.

In WoW you HAD to upgrade every few months and even then the time model your talking about was for the elite groups. Guild wars 2 carters more to the regular players and the casual more then the elites.
I actually enjoy the gear here because its less of a “your gear score is a little lower then what we want so your gonna be left out, sorry.” and more of a “welcome to the group friend. I see you spend some extra time to get that sweet weapon/armor skin. very nice”

While I dislike how grindy the new ascended gear is, I can say that you are correct. Exotic gear is viable enough that nobody is requiring you to be in full ascended to run with them. If they are, you probably shouldn’t be running with them.

I still think that the new ascended gear should have a stagger effect where the time to make another lessens significantly after you’ve made a whole set. That way the burden gets lighter for those with alts, but it remains challenging for those that only plan to make 1 set.

Coldtart.4785:

Yet more ‘you don’t need it’ and ‘complaining about nothing’ to defend ascended. If ‘you don’t need it’ and it’s ‘nothing’ then why does it even deserve to exist in the game? Defending ascended is literally defending a grind that has absolutely no reward. ‘People will leave if there’s no VP’ you say? Good. Let them go back to their scrubby games that give ever higher stats as a crutch so they don’t ever have to be good at anything.

Yes, because this one should only have the stuff you want right?

Rich Fuel.7253:

im killing teq every single day i want that acsended weapon chest…..but it never drops…..what am i doing wrong

After about 10-15 I got the carrion ascended drop, but I have no toon that uses carrion so it is just sitting in my bank for now.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Nick.6972:

A new Tier of armor which takes even more time to craft than a legendary?

Could be Legendary Armor, you heard it here first!

Yup it will be time-gated at 1 year per mat.

morrolan.9608:

timidobserver.7925:

Meh, not really. Most Commanders would trade a guy in full ascended that never stays on the commander or listens for a guy in exotics that stays on the commander at all time any day.

And most commanders would rather a guy in full ascended thats stays on him than someone in fill sacended who doesn’t.

True, but it really doesn’t make that big of a difference. If it is a big deal to you, then suck it up and farm the gear, but gear level is not nearly the most important factor in being successful in WvW. It isn’t really in the top 3.

You can be successful in exotics, and that is more than most MMOs give. Go PVP in SWTOR with less than optimal gear and you’ll find yourself being oneshot.

Dog.1472:

I, like many others, was drawn to GW2 because I heard it was supposed to have a moderately easy stat cap with a lot of never ending grind solely for cosmetics. I liked this idea a lot. As I started the game, I was just as happy with it as I thought it would be. I did not have to devote my life to the same daily grinds in order to simply have the best stats. It was a good system for me and the game was more enjoyable. Then they introduced ascended and slowly but surely they went back on what I had thought the game was intended to be in the first place.

Ascended has not enriched my gameplay experience in any way. I am not happier than I was before, in fact it’s quite the opposite. I play all 8 classes, have them all at level 80 and even spent quite a lot of time getting them all at least one full set of a specific stat of exotic gear, the best runes, sigils etc. I do not enjoy playing one character any more than the others. I don’t consider any of my characters a “main” because I enjoyed playing them all. It took quite a long time as it was, but it was fun.

Now, I am completely overwhelmed with how much of a grind it would take to get all of my now formerly geared characters hooked up with ascended. I feel as though I am being horribly pressured into playing a single character, which I have absolutely no intention of doing, nor does anyone really benefit from forcing me to play a single one. Fortunately, I am also completely underwhelmed by how significant of a difference it makes, and so I have opted to ignore ascended completely.

So what has it really done for me? Well, all I can say is I was happier without it than I am now. There is not one thing about it I can think of that has affected me in a positive way.

I am glad they have stopped catering to those that want the game to consist 100% of cosmetics. Unlike most MMOs, they left the previous gear tiers viable. Exotic gear is entirely viable in any area of the game. However, they are starting to understand that some players are interested in a little bit of vertical progression. The only issue is that their execution of ascended gear has been horrible.

In a game that encourages alts so heavily, they should not introduce a gear system that goes against alts.

Jahroots.6791:

That’s a pretty big oversimplification. Think about it, MMO players like a sense of progression, whether vertical or horizontal….we need the proverbial ‘carrot-at-the-end-of-a-stick’. We make fun of that expression, but MMORPGs typically aren’t as inherently fun to play as say……FPS games. The reward is half the fun, and the devs know this and have got a white-knuckle grip on all the good stuff. Also, ascended gear is the only substantial addition to the game in months. No one wants to just spin their wheels and repeat content with no real purpose, especially when there IS one which just happens to be a pain in the kitten .

We’ll ignore ascended gear when we have something meaningful to sink our teeth into. That, or quit playing.

You pretty much nailed it. The majority of the content in the game is pointless as far as progression goes. You absolutely have to craft to have access the game’s vertical progression. In no way is that “typical” or similar to any other MMO I have played.

It is like somewhere a long the line they decided that anyone that wants to participate in vertical progression also have to be heavily invested into crafting or gold farming.

morrolan.9608:

Alex Kelley.2748:

I think it is important to remember that ascended gear is not required.

For over a year everyone used exotic-quality equipment and had no trouble completing content. Ascended items were not added because there was a statistical gap that needed to be filled; they were added to provide players with a long-term goal. If you do not feel that the effort required to obtain ascended gear is justified by its very minor boost, then don’t bother with it. End of story.

A 14% increase for full ascended, I’d say that was required in WvW if one wants to be at an optimal level in that mode, plus if you really want to be as efficient and optimised as possible in PvE I’d also say it is heavily desirable.

Meh, not really. Most Commanders would trade a guy in full ascended that never stays on the commander or listens for a guy in exotics that stays on the commander at all time any day.

The only place in WvW it would be required is GvG. In general WvW, a 14% increase isn’t really that important. If you just have to be optimal, if you just get ascended jewelry/trinkets/backpeice, which aren’t that hard to get, and ignore the armor and weapon, you will be more than fine.

Cornellious.1435:

It would be nice if they could find a better ( and more player friendly )way to monetize their game then through Gems->Gold. At present it seems to provide too much temptation for them to resist.

You have to be realistic in your requests. I happen to know people to spend 20, 40, and sometimes over 60 bucks a month on ridiculous stuff out of the cash shop and converting golds/gem. There is no way they are doing away with that system.

Bagel.4598:

timidobserver.7925:

Bagel.4598:

timidobserver.7925:

I disagree with the major points made in this post.

A. I disagree with the idea that the game doesn’t need gear progression. It does need it. Vertical progression is good. The lack of vertical progression is why I quit GW1 shortly after completing all of the story portions of the expansions. It is good that Anet it no longer catering solely to cosmetics care bears.

B. However, I disagree with the idea that it should only be available through extreme crafting or that it should be a grind that could encompass years if you intend to have multiple sets of gear for multiple toons. Limited vertical progression with requirements that are challenging but not verging on extreme or insane should be the goal.

There needs to be some give here.
You can’t put people who have less time and resources at a disadvantage to players who do via stats.
In PvP and WvW there needs to be a cap that basic items (or even free) can hit.
PvE I can understand, yes vertical progression has its place.
Whether it’s 5% or 20%. Any advantage is an advantage and that’s how people look at it.

Yeh, in my post I said that currently the time/resource requirements is a bit insane. Like I said in the post you responded to, the goal should be a system that is challenging but not insane as it currently is. I agree entirely with the idea that ascended gear currently is a massive undertaking that favors the unemployed and lifeless. However, I don’t think there should be any handouts. You should have to do stuff to get ascended gear, but they have gone a bit far.

Not sure what you are referring to, but currently there is no gear advantage in general PVP.

As far as WvW goes, I like being able to take my character as they are straight into a PVP environment. I like having access to all things in the game. In Spvp it doesn’t even feel like I am playing my actual character. WvW makes me feel like I am taking my actual character into open world pvp. I feel that sPVP is there for those that want to PVP in a vacuum. I would be extremely disappointed, to the point of leaving the game, if WvW were turned into a restricted/vacuum environment like SPVP.

Your character is your character because you’ve spec’d it and dressed it how you want.
The point I am referring to is ascended gears stat bonus.
I don’t know what they are planning for sPvP, their intention is to have the same equipment you wear in PvE when you cross in to PvP, much like WvW.
My qualms are what they intended to do with the stats of ascended equipment in pvp, because that would have a serious impact.
Hence the comment of vertical progression fitting PvE, but anywhere there is PvP I see a problem.

“Even though we will be eliminating the distinction between PvP and PvE gear, gear in PvP will continue to not have stats. The armor and weapons you carry into PvP will be, like they are now, just for looks. Traits, skills, runes and sigils will still be different for PvP so you will continue to be able to have different builds in PvP and PvE.”
^excerpt from https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-rewards-roadmap/

The latest update I read on sPVP, shown above, says that sPVP gear will never have any stat advantage associated with it. They are just allowing you to carry your look over to sPVP. In other words, your concern is a none-concern.

As far as WvW goes, I am fine with it the way it is. If you want to play in a vacuum you can go SPvP. I don’t see a need to make SPvP and WvW more similar.

Supremelo.8437:

According to the wiki, these were the features that Arenanet intended to add in the second half of 2013:

Professions and balance
-There will be new unlockable skills and traits.
Precursors, and legendaries
-New legendary weapons.
-New types of legendary equipment (possibly a trinket).
-New precursor acquisition methods (I am aware that Arenanet later announced that this would be postponed)
sPvP
-New map types.
-It will be possible to gain legendary weapon skins in sPvP.
-Additional rewards and growth will be added to the major competitive sPvP tournaments.

Do you guys think that Arenanet adequately implemented these features?

It makes total sense to me to just do all of the legendary stuff as a legendary patch. So I can understand just postpostoning all of the stuff until they have the new acquisition methods ready.

Bagel.4598:

timidobserver.7925:

I disagree with the major points made in this post.

A. I disagree with the idea that the game doesn’t need gear progression. It does need it. Vertical progression is good. The lack of vertical progression is why I quit GW1 shortly after completing all of the story portions of the expansions. It is good that Anet it no longer catering solely to cosmetics care bears.

B. However, I disagree with the idea that it should only be available through extreme crafting or that it should be a grind that could encompass years if you intend to have multiple sets of gear for multiple toons. Limited vertical progression with requirements that are challenging but not verging on extreme or insane should be the goal.

There needs to be some give here.
You can’t put people who have less time and resources at a disadvantage to players who do via stats.
In PvP and WvW there needs to be a cap that basic items (or even free) can hit.
PvE I can understand, yes vertical progression has its place.
Whether it’s 5% or 20%. Any advantage is an advantage and that’s how people look at it.

Yeh, in my post I said that currently the time/resource requirements is a bit insane. Like I said in the post you responded to, the goal should be a system that is challenging but not insane as it currently is. I agree entirely with the idea that ascended gear currently is a massive undertaking that favors the unemployed and lifeless. However, I don’t think there should be any handouts. You should have to do stuff to get ascended gear, but they have gone a bit far.

Not sure what you are referring to, but currently there is no gear advantage in general PVP.

As far as WvW goes, I like being able to take my character as they are straight into a PVP environment. I like having access to all things in the game. In Spvp it doesn’t even feel like I am playing my actual character. WvW makes me feel like I am taking my actual character into open world pvp. I feel that sPVP is there for those that want to PVP in a vacuum. I would be extremely disappointed, to the point of leaving the game, if WvW were turned into a restricted/vacuum environment like SPVP.

Hopefully it is an expansion. I really want some meatier new content(professions, races, new weapons, new skills, new traits, new relevant story content) rather then temporary content that seems like it is copied and pasted and then altered slightly and even more cosmetics.

I disagree with the major points made in this post.

A. I disagree with the idea that the game doesn’t need gear progression. It does need it. Vertical progression is good. The lack of vertical progression is why I quit GW1 shortly after completing all of the story portions of the expansions. It is good that Anet it no longer catering solely to cosmetics care bears.

B. However, I disagree with the idea that it should only be available through extreme crafting or that it should be a grind that could encompass years if you intend to have multiple sets of gear for multiple toons. Limited vertical progression with requirements that are challenging but not verging on extreme or insane should be the goal.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

People always complained about how WoW had this horrible endless gear grind that was the source of all evil in the world. However as far as I can tell GW2 has a much longer, less rewarding and more frequent gear grind then WoW ever had.

In WoW you got a new set of gear every ~6 months. It all launched at once and it came with the introduction of 1-2 new raids each containing 8-12 bosses. It took 2-3 weeks to figure out the strategies and then another 2-3 weeks to get them down pat. By that time you had about 1/3 of your new gear. Then it took another 3-4 weeks of farming the raids to complete your gear set. All told it took ~8 weeks to get the new gear but you also got dozens if not hundreds of hours of new gameplay, new story lines, and new mechanics from the raids.

Switch over to GW2… here we have released new gear every 3 months, it came with NO new content at all. Was put on a gear grind that takes 2-3 weeks PER PIECE and does not even really require playing the game, just the market, and worst of all it doesn’t even make you hardly any more powerful in PvE since the game is so poorly balanced.

So why is it that WoW’s model was the root of all evil yet GW2 is claimed to not have a gear grind? As far as I can tell GW2 is 10x more of a gear grind then WoW was and it doesn’t even come with new content to make it exciting.

I agree.

The ascended gear grind is honestly pretty ridiculous. My primary issue with it is that GW2 combat system is extremely fluid. Anyone that plays for any length of time is probably going to end up with at least 3 full sets of exotic gear. Unless you are insane/lifeless you are not going to have full alternate sets of Ascended gear, and that is my primary issue. Then when you throw alts into the mix, you are talking about potentially years worth of grinding.

Honestly, the cosmetics happy/GW1 people are the true issue. They feel like everything should be cosmetics and anything that isn’t cosmetics should basically be borderline impossible to get.

I was watching your fractal video(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYg2_WU_7rA&feature=youtu.be) and I do not see your VOJ refreshing when the adds die. Are those adds not procing the refresh, or are you running something other than 25 into radiance in this vid?

I have to say that I’d much prefer repeating various raids once a week(the typical MMO system) to having to grind mats and/or gold. I am not sure what convinced Anet that all of their ascended/legendary gear has to involve months and months worth of grinding crafting mats and gold farming.

GW2 has many strong elements, but crafting is probably it’s weakest element. I am not sure why they would load all gear progression into the weakest element of the game.

I did go through the trouble of building 1 ascended weapon(had 2/5 of the mats before the patch release), and I shortly quit the game for 2-3 months after I finished due to burn out. I am finally getting back into the game slightly. Ascended armor isn’t even on my list of things to do. I’d end up uninstalling the game if I went through the trouble of crafting a whole set.

foofad.5162:

Even after all this time, I’m still working on building real metrics by which to value condition damage against power based damage. But I can tell you that for one-on-one stuff, Burning specific builds are really not great. The one overwhelming advantage to things like Purging Flames and Permeating Wrath is being able to burn everything in the room. It’s essentially limitless AOE, which is not something anyone else really has.

Re: Fractals, “Viable” is a relative term. To me, viable means it can successfully clear the content in an average group. In that sense, yeah any Permeating Wrath build would be fine… to a point. Defensively, you aren’t missing out on anything the meta builds have; Permanent Vigor, Master of Consecrations and so on. Offensively you’re giving up some desperately needed power based damage which can really hinder you in the top end of fractals, mostly in terms of multipliers and raw damage stats.

My recommendation: Try it. See how far you can get. If it becomes clear that you just can’t hack it anymore, be willing to change. Report back on how far that was.

By the way, I am still completely rewriting the thread – I’m doing so off site though so it doesn’t become an unreadable mess in the process. I’m also releasing a version of some of my comparisons along with it.

Yeh, I am going to try it. I think that trading a little single target dps is acceptable if the build is fun. I’ll just keep my meta gear in reserve for any super serious stuff like high tier fractals or serious wvw runs.

Another question for you. For someone that doesn’t like running a healing power build nor spending a month grinding up celestial gear, do you think it would work out as well going something like 10/0/30/0/30 with a knights/Berserkers mix instead of 10/0/0/30/30 with a celestial/cleric/berserker mix??

I guess that 10/0/0/30/30 with knight/berserker could work too?

Excellent job with this thread. I haven’t played GW2 in months, but this thread is going to get my back playing because I want to try this out.

A few questions:

I think you have more than proved that burning can be made to be decent in an AoE sense. You even proved that it can be viable in WvW, which was surprising.However, I am curious about single target encounters. You can contribute very well against multiple enemies, but how does your contribution fare during boss encounters.

Also, I know that your thread is primarily about math, but I am curious if a burn build could be made to be viable in fractals.

EDIT:
I tend to run my guardians defensively, so I am looking forward to your update about using burns to supplement defensive builds.

Chrispy.5641:

videoboy.4162:

Chrispy.5641:

videoboy.4162:

@Chrispy
Your idea is a very good one. I like it very much, it just isn’t in my personal Top 3.

Skin Locker and Housing, although, no one’s been able to explain very well how that’s related to Horizontal Progression in any way. Once someone makes a post that explains it then I’ll be a believer, but until then, its Weapon skills and Order/Faction Missions/Reputation. (This comment isn’t directed at you specifically, I just don’t see the point yet in either a skin locker or housing)

What, specifically, confuses you about it? Maybe I can help clear things up.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Chrispy.5641:

Skin Locker and Housing, although, no one’s been able to explain very well how that’s related to Horizontal Progression in any way.

It’s kind of like a record, if you will.

Skin Locker

If you only had one unlocked when you log in, then by the end of your play session you have 3, then you’ve progressed, so to speak.

Housing

You start with a plain house.

You go punch something / someone in the face, wreck it’s day, and you get an achievement for it. As well as the achievement, you get one of it’s teeth to put on display in your house. It’s basically a more visual form of titles.

Rather than an actual progression system, they’re tools and groundwork to help show progression made on the cosmetic side of things, and can easily be added to in the future.

---

How is Vanity going to benefit/affect ALL the Players in the game when its released? half of the community wants housing, and the other half doesn’t care about it, and wants nothing to do with it.

Some suggestions that have things like order quests are things that all players can take part in, and progress in, and not only that, it leads to an actual reward that you can always show off at all times. Even if players decide to want nothing to do with Order quests because its optional, they will see other players actively taking part in it, and actively getting rewards that they can show off anywhere in the game they go.

You can’t show off your house except to people you know due to the instanced nature of the game, and less than 1% of 1% of 1% of the players in the game will ever set foot in your place. If you get a Title, or a cool new weapon skin, or new skill to show off as a result of Order or Faction stuff, many, many more players will see it. Every player you run in to in the world will see the effect of you getting new weapon skills, and will make the call for themselves whether its more effective and should bother to find them, or if they should just stick with what they got. You can’t do that with a house that only ever going to be Visual, and not only that, but like I said, almost no one will ever see it.

How do you get past that? Not a single person on this thread has been able to get past that issue.

I agree about the Vanity. Players that focus on vanity have a lot of stuff in the game already. Hopefully the other players get some stuff.