Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Chill is good but when you have sigils like geomancy and doom around sigil of ice and hidromancy are not used a lot.
Weakness and chill are just good side effects.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
That’s where you’re wrong, as you asked us to enlighten you.
Objective truth, while very informative, is often times not very useful because it doesn’t really propose a path forward but simply explain what is happening. Analyzing that it’s the players who are wrong, while accurate, isn’t a solution. Telling players to nut up and “l2p” also isn’t an acceptable solution. Their only choices involve either nerfing the class in some way to allow other players to counter the class easier or do and say nothing and hope players figure it out.
You are not getting it: I am asking whether my analysis is the only objective explanation for why we appear OP. The question is: can any one else come up with an other explanation? I just want to understand why we appear OP.
We can think of solutions once we have properly stated what the problem is.
Ele is not deemd OP….D/D Ele is deemed OP and this is why:
-You can’t walk away (while holding a cup of tea in your other hand) from every incoming source of dmg with a big grin on your face like you can do against a staff ele
-You can’t gank ,while laughing, and insta kill a d/d ele like you can do with s/f ele
-D/D ele makes ele challenging to fight, not more ele is considered a walking free kill/ loot bag
-People hate to lose 1vs1 more than anything.You need no more reasons, am I saying lies?
This is what the “nerf ele” community unanimously agree upon when it comes to ele:
-“Staff ele is fine and balanced (easy to kill, kite, never a true source of danger, never wins 1vs1 against a human player) and d/d ele should be like this”
-Scepter burst ele is fine and balanced (can be oneshotted by every single meta build with ease, a free kill in high level pvp, select target and explode him)
Celestial Staff is balanced it focus more in the support/bunker spec with area denial. Could get some quality life buffs in ice spike, gust and lightning surge though.
Scepter is just bad. Fresh air as most zerker builds is not very good because thieves just destroy them after using the long cd defenses. Try celestial scepter feels just like a nerfed d/d.
Because the other builds can get small buffs does not mean that d/d is fine.
It is not like it is normal difficulty to burst a d/d ele. It is really impossible for some classes/builds. Most builds can’t beat celestial d/d ele even if they completly outplay you.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Staff is a balanced build. Focusing in group fights and in supportive role. And is not op in 1v1.
d/d in the other hand has almost the same support as staff and is nearly god mode in 1v1. With very few counters like a fearmancer. Also has more mobility than staff or scepter.
Then why people choose staff eles over d/d? Last eu esl had 50/50 proportions of staff and d/d eles.
One is complementing the other. When was the last time you saw a team bring a staff without a d/d? Or 2 staff ele?
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Lol saying generosity is a counter to doom. Yes lets put our hopes in 100% RNGesus…
People saying doom is contering celestial, but most classes that run doom are ele/engi/war the celestial users. It makes as much sense as giving cele engi and cele ele a 50% dmg buff becuase they will counter each other.
Geomancy been op does not make doom any less op. Doom and geomancy were balanced before april’s update.
Generosity/Purity only procs when you have a condition. Otherwise the sigil “sleeps” until there’s a condition on you, then it’ll try procing go on icd.
So more like 60% RNG depending on a number of scebarios.Doom hurts self sustaining classes like Cele Ele more than it hurts Zerks or other dps classes. I’m not sure what argument you’re trying to make here, but you’re not fooling anyone.
d/d , rifle engi and shoutbow war have way more condis than just doom. So who said you are trasfering doom back? . I’m not sure what argument you’re trying to make here, but you’re not fooling anyone.
Doom is another condition with a very high uptime making even easier for celestial users to stack condis and so do more dmg.
Let me tell my anti-burn guard buddies that burn guards have a high burn uptime from just F1 because our immobilize/blinds/vulnerability gives awesome condition coverage.
No need to have Judge’s Intervention or Torch, yup, we have high uptime in burns already.
….They will have a field day with that kind of logic.Are you also trying to say that poison won’t affect ether feast, healing from meditations, shelter, regen or withdraw?
Do you realize how much passive regen Cele Ele and cele Wars have? I’ll say it again, Doom hurts Celestial self-sustaining builds more than Doom hurting dps classes.
Oh you were going to remove my burning/bleeding? Too back you wasted condi clear in my poison.
Cleansing the most damaging condition in the game, followed by long duration bleeds that are stackable.. now I can actually use my utilities to cleanse poison, or should I save it for the Ele’s fire breath again?
Back to original argument. If you think Doom is That OP (it isn’t) use purity/generosity or other condi Cleansing skills/traits.
Nothing you said makes any sense. Doom just makes the celestial meta more powerful.
Thief and necro don’t even need doom because they have poison and won’t be effected by nerfing doom. Medi guard doesnt use doom. Rangers if power based don’t use doom. If condi they already have poison and dont use doom. Most people running doom are celestial.
Doom is just leting celestial classes reduce everyone else’s healing. The only thing doom does is make cele d/d, rifle engi and war stronger.
Normally the only case where doom is reducing celestial builds’ healing is when they are fighting another celestial build….
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Lol saying generosity is a counter to doom. Yes lets put our hopes in 100% RNGesus…
People saying doom is contering celestial, but most classes that run doom are ele/engi/war the celestial users. It makes as much sense as giving cele engi and cele ele a 50% dmg buff becuase they will counter each other.
Geomancy been op does not make doom any less op. Doom and geomancy were balanced before april’s update.
Generosity/Purity only procs when you have a condition. Otherwise the sigil “sleeps” until there’s a condition on you, then it’ll try procing go on icd.
So more like 60% RNG depending on a number of scebarios.Doom hurts self sustaining classes like Cele Ele more than it hurts Zerks or other dps classes. I’m not sure what argument you’re trying to make here, but you’re not fooling anyone.
d/d , rifle engi and shoutbow war have way more condis than just doom. So who said you are trasfering doom back? . I’m not sure what argument you’re trying to make here, but you’re not fooling anyone.
Doom is another condition with a very high uptime making even easier for celestial users to stack condis and so do more dmg. Oh you were going to remove my burning/bleeding? Too back you wasted condi clear in my poison.
Are you also trying to say that poison won’t affect ether feast, healing from meditations, shelter, regen or withdraw?
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Lol saying generosity is a counter to doom. Yes lets put our hopes in 100% RNGesus…
People saying doom is contering celestial, but most classes that run doom are ele/engi/war the celestial users. It makes as much sense as giving cele engi and cele ele a 50% dmg buff becuase they will counter each other.
Geomancy been op does not make doom any less op. Doom and geomancy were balanced before april’s update.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Just make sure you never try ele, because once you do and see the huge difference in efficiency, you might never want to touch your warrior or guardian again.
Warrior is still very effective with their unique support from banners.
One warrior makes sense, after that they become wasted party slots. Same for guardian.
Considering there are 8 classes and only 5 slots in a group I think be one of those 5 is good.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Just make sure you never try ele, because once you do and see the huge difference in efficiency, you might never want to touch your warrior or guardian again.
Warrior is still very effective with their unique support from banners.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
I usually like to play a support role or a healer for some runs in Fractals or Dungeons with my Guardian.
My build usually revolves around using Symbols to heal my friends while they do DMG. however, ever since they added new Traits, I kinda grew a little jealous that Eles got a really good Trait for healing. I wonder why ANet didn’t do a similar thing for the Guard?
I really hope that future traits or even Specializations give the Guard that capability.
I like the idea of something like aquatic benevolence. It only affects allies so it doesn’t turn the character into a immortal 1v1 class.
Where you think the trait could be allocated? Maybe giving an extra healing effect to communal defenses or to altruistic healing. Or something in the virtues traitline.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
In one hand this change will make the stuns from warriors more usefull. Earthshaker +staggering blow removing 2 stab stacks. Making warriors better.
In the other hand stability becomes rarer to have. So we might have people running even more guardians to counter that. Line of warding and biding blades also getting better.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The amulet is fine. It is not even viable for most classes. The problem is clearly engi + d/d ele. War is close to be balanced since it took the biggest punch from the might nerf+ addrenaline nerf. \
Would you rather see a nerf to the op builds or nerf the amulet so no other class other than ele/engi/war can use it?
D/D is the only build atm that can 1vs1 reliably against any build while maintaining a supportive role, a staff ele meta uses the same trait set up of a D/D ..still there are no complaints about staff build, chances are what really irks people is the fact they lose 1vs1 to an ele and they want that changed, a simplistic view but I believe it to be mostly true
They don’t use all the same traits. Most staff users use blasting staff and earth embrace instead of renewing stamina and elemental shielding. It is possible to nerf those 2 traits or the dagger skills and solve the problem without hurting the balanced builds.
Staff is a balanced build. Focusing in group fights and in supportive role. And is not op in 1v1.
d/d in the other hand has almost the same support as staff and is nearly god mode in 1v1. With very few counters like a fearmancer. Also has more mobility than staff or scepter.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
What’s with this obsessive and paranoid fear of having a party lead—— oh right, I forgot. This is gw2 and gw2 players…
What is the paranoid fear of having no party leader?
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
I remmember that in the ready up episode from february 20th when devs were showing the revenant class they opened the hero’s pannel and the critical chance and critical dmg had a fractional part.
Are we getting it with the expansion or it is just a dev’s tool to see stats more precisely?
link for the POI stream:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/627401366
@30:43
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Lots of retaliation for instance, hurts zerk heavily.
The solution to retaliation is just as viable in zerk parties as it is in nomad parties. Boon stripping doesn’t require toughness or vitality or healing or condi, it simply requires a single skill or sigil or weapon (just like reflect).
.
That can easily be changed if anet wants to. They can makes a boss that reapplys the boon every sencond or a boon that you can’t strip. Like the assassins in cof p2 for example. You cannot remove their stab. Or just create a new effect for some specific bosses, that works like retal but is not a boon.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Can we get a different collor for posts made by forum specialist? Similar to how mod posts are black and dev’s posts are red. It would make easier to notice the specialists’ posts in the middle of long topics.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The low hp is not a big deal because how fast you can regen the hp and how you can mitigate dmg are more important. Take old bunker shout guardian as example. Their low hp didn’t stop them from been one of the most tankiest builds around.
The light armor becomes almost a medium armor most of the time becuase of stone flesh minor trait combined with lingering elements.
If by fighting toe to toe you mean kill fast almost all non meta builds all the time in 1v1
and rarery losing even for most meta builds…..
What other build in the game has that mobility, is great node fighter, can fight of node, can stale fights if want, is good in team fights?
Fearmancers have no good mobility other than flesh wurm and 1 teleport towards the target.
Mesmer+thives have good mobility but they cant hold nodes.
Rangers… are rangers.
Medi guard has low mobility. If they go bunker they have no dmg and low mobility.
Ele if go staff loses a lot of the mobility. If goes sceper focus loses mobility and is not as strong as d/d.
Shoutbow is not even close to d/d dmg.
Cele rifle engi are one of the only other problematic builds. But still less condi clear and mobility than d/d ele.
If all professions using celestial amulet are OP then nerf the common denominator.
The thing is 5 professions using celestial are no even close to be op. Most of them can’t even make a “viable” build with celestial. So clearly celestial amulet is not a common denominator.
@pvp specialist
Do you have more new questions, suggestions, ideas, etc..? Talk only about ele is getting repetitive. What is your opinion about the state of d/d ele?
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.Your first argument makes no sense. By that logic nothing in the game should ever be nerfed or buffed because something else will become the new “op” skill.
Other runes don’t need a nerf because they are not as strong as hoelbrak. For spvp hoelbrak is one of the most used if not the most used rune. It is also one of the top runes for wvw. The price of hoelbrak in the trading post is a good signal of how strong it is. Most runes have the same supply but with different demands. Hoelbrak is always in the top 3 most expensive ones.
Hoelbrak gives a lot of offensive power via power+ might duration + source of might and also is one of the most defensive runes in the game with -20% condi duration.
Exactly to what level you want to nerf d/d ele?
You only ever talk of nerfs, but never explain why you want these nerfs
To the same lvl as staff ele that is not using renewing stamina is right now.
Explanation? d/d is one of the top 1v1 node fighters, one of the best mobility, survives almost like staff but has a way easier time landing dmg.
Do you really preffer them removing celestial amulet than nerfing ele? I love celestial amulet would rather see a nerf to d/d skills than completely remove it.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.
Your first argument makes no sense. By that logic nothing in the game should ever be nerfed or buffed because something else will become the new “op” skill.
Other runes don’t need a nerf because they are not as strong as hoelbrak. For spvp hoelbrak is one of the most used if not the most used rune. It is also one of the top runes for wvw. The price of hoelbrak in the trading post is a good signal of how strong it is. Most runes have the same supply but with different demands. Hoelbrak is always in the top 3 most expensive ones.
Hoelbrak gives a lot of offensive power via power+ might duration + source of might and also is one of the most defensive runes in the game with -20% condi duration.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
You focus on D/D, because you lose to it quite frequently.
It requires more skills to avoid its dmg..it’s not a matter of simply walk away from it like you can do with staff, have a staff ele that kills people and suddenly staff ele becomes OP too…oh wait that guy @Lordrosicky was complaining already about staff eles, saying how braindead were and how hard was to avoid their attacks.*MMO Rule n1= as long as it doesn’t kill me, it’s not OP"
About your idea that nerfing celestial is not the way to go.
You have 6 profession with a viable zerker build, but none of them get stacked, you have 2 professions that use celestial, but only one of them can be stacked with greater success rate.You already can’t use celestial as you’ve stated so I don’t see how the nerfing of this amulet would hurt your profession and the other 5, as told already by the OP on page 1, the problem is stacking of celestial builds, not a specific profession alone.
But pls feel free to prove me wrong, find me a successful team that runs double of anything but not celestial..gl
I main celestial elementalist. What are you talking about? Stop making assumpions about things you have 0 knowledge about.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Most venoms don’t work.
Traps are bad.
Most tricks are lackluster.
Only thing left are decption skills and a few signets. Thives normally are stealth spam with dagger main hand or evade spam with sword+dagger.
For wvw you can also try p/d perplexity dire thief.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Celestial is not op. 5 out of 8 classes are not even viable using celestial.
April patch had: burning speed getting evade, frozen burst got blast finisher, hoelbrak rework, buff to sigil of doom, etc.
Remove the amulet because of 2/3 builds is idiot. What if they remove zerker amulet because almost all thieves, mesmers, guardians and rangers are using it?
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The system was changed because the previous one was bad. Giving power to 1 guy makes it worse for the other 4 players. You just make the instanse worse for 80% of the players. Right now everyone is at the same lvl. Giving special power for 1 guy just encourage that one guy kicking anyone when he wants because he knows he can’t be kicked. Also how would you kick an afk leader? You said that you can open the dungeon to avoid a kick. Well if everyone try to do the same then no one would ever join a group that they are not leader. You are making the dungeon worse for 4 players just to benefit one. Such a selfish idea.
The current system is better than the old one for anyone, but dungeon sellers. As dungeon selling is not a supported feature it should not be taken in account when designing the game.
Currently me and my friend can open a Fractals lvl 50, kill everything up to the endboss with some random pugs, do a good job and then we can get kicked and they can invite someone else.
This guy got lucky, but usually that’s not the case.
And the old system would let the leader kick the other 3 players that helped in the entire dungeon to invite a friend/guildie just for end boss.
If 5 players start a dungeon together why should 1 have more power than the other 4? I remember with old system leader going afk and we having to 4man the dungeon or reset it.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
If you are considering blast frost field for +1 aura let’s also consider that d/d can leap on fire field and get 3 auras. d/d still has more
Anyway it is not like everyone is trying to get a frost aura instead of blasting a fire/water field.
Protection alone is not god mode but when combined with the build that has one of the best self sustain/healing in the game it is pretty much god mode against almost every non meta build.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
@Supreme.3164
Staff and d/d don’t use 100% the same traits. Staff doen’t have Renewing Stamina because it needs Blasting staff.
Staff has 1 aura while d/d has 2. Final shielding is a problematic trait that only affects d/d.
Those 2 traits are in need of a nerf.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Guids can have the same tag. On my server there are at least 2+ WAR guilds. Post the guild tag is useless.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
d/d has more mobility than staff.
d/d is better at landing dmg. If you don’t stay inside lava fond, avoid ice spike and eruption staff does almost no dmg. The autoatk will land but it is not that great. Eruption is the only good source of bleeding for staff and it has 1.25s cast + a long time until it explodes. d/d has a much easier time landing direct and condi dmg.
Staff is giving more support but at the cost of having much less mobility and less 1v1 offensive power.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Tell me why conditions work in pvp then.
The original combat system was designed with small scale conquest mode spvp in mind.
Also simply put the characters do not deal well with enough condition pressure as they saw after launch raw hit points (the only non cleanse defense against conditions) was the general design strategy applied to warrior. It did not work, queue up months of whining and you get things like Cleasnsing Ire and Dodged March.
Also in spvp there are not players running around with -40% condi duration food.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
1)In spvp basically all stats (stats, not stat combinations) are usefull.
2)In wvw zerg condition dmg is almost useless due to -40% condi food+hoelbrak (-20%) + purging flames+shouts+ warhorn converting/removing conditions. Healing power is also not very effective because blasting water field scales with the healing power from the one blasting. If you get hit by a blob you healing won’t save you.
3) WvW roaming everything is pretty much used. From condi perplexity to full zerk.
4)In duneons condi dmg is useless because 25 stacks cap. Healing, thougness and vitality are all bad. Why would you try to heal if it is just easier to kill the mob before it does enough dmg to kill you? Why would you use healing power if ressing players doens’t scale with healing power? Why would you even bother ressing it you can just kill a trash mob and rally? In some bosses you don’t even have to dodge if you have a guard rotating blocks. Ac final bosses for example let you just walk to the side and avoid all the dmg….
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
there should be a party leader system, it provides the least amount of griefing possible
We had one before. It was so problematic that players demanded changes. Party leader the way it was before just gave the leader the ability to grief and kick everyone.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
I think that the healing is fine as it is. The main problem is the protection from auras and way too much dmg for a hibrid. And the perma vigor from renewing stamina.
Staff for example has kitten burning on a 10s coodown. No one says it is op. Make drake breath more like flame burst. More cooldown or less duration.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The system was changed because the previous one was bad. Giving power to 1 guy makes it worse for the other 4 players. You just make the instanse worse for 80% of the players. Right now everyone is at the same lvl. Giving special power for 1 guy just encourage that one guy kicking anyone when he wants because he knows he can’t be kicked. Also how would you kick an afk leader? You said that you can open the dungeon to avoid a kick. Well if everyone try to do the same then no one would ever join a group that they are not leader. You are making the dungeon worse for 4 players just to benefit one. Such a selfish idea.
The current system is better than the old one for anyone, but dungeon sellers. As dungeon selling is not a supported feature it should not be taken in account when designing the game.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Right now it is easy to put 2 guards per party and just rotate stab. Most boon removal skills are single target. The ones that are not are obvious pulsing aoe that in most cases won’t even remove stab because rng and people just steping outside ot the circle.
This makes the hammer trait basically imune to cc. People are already immune to condis due to -40% food + hoelbrak + purging flames + shouts+ warhorn converting. This makes the entire zerg fight about spike direct dmg and just walk away of the spike dmg.
Stability change will at least remove the immune to cc status that the blob has right now. Creating more place for use of strategy.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The 6s cooldown on eruption doesn’t really work very well. You need to drop it first and then change to water/fire to blast a field. So it is at least 10s cd before you use it to blast your own field again. Most of staff’s dmg can be avoided by walking away from the circle
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The amulet is fine. It is not even viable for most classes. The problem is clearly engi + d/d ele. War is close to be balanced since it took the biggest punch from the might nerf+ addrenaline nerf. \
Would you rather see a nerf to the op builds or nerf the amulet so no other class other than ele/engi/war can use it?
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Ferocity should stay. But would be nice to see a rework in the way it scales your crit dmg. After some point it should start having dimish returns. Requiring more and more ferocity for each extra 1% crit dmg. The magic find system is a good analogy. Thougness has dimish returns, for every 1% dmg reduction you need more and more thoughness.
Healing power needs a slighly buff. Not too much or it would be easy to outheal everything in spvp. Focus the buffs in group suppor rather than individual skills would be good. Maybe make blasting a water field consider the healing power from the player who places the water field. Similar to how thieves’ shared vennons work now. They use the condi dmg from the thief not from the ally that recieved it.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Elemental Attunement, please
5 seconds of Aoe protection in 10 seconds cooldown is already ridic, when combined with 2 ele, it’s even more ridic..
Elemental attunement is a master trait. Out of 4 boons only 2 are really good: protection and regen. Regen is good mostly because sinergizes with other traits. The other 2 swiftness and 1stack of might are weak. The self protection should stay the same. Protection is here for a reason eles have low hp and light armor.
I would say that elemental shielding, a minor trait, giving 3s base protection (4s traited) is the real problematic one. Maybe they could change from 3s protection to 2s swiftness+2s protection. Or any other boon like retal. Look at how Zephy’s boons works. Has 2 boons on a higher base duration (5s) and is not as op as Elemental shielding.
While elemental attunement can work with any ele weapon elemental shielding works better in main hand dagger users. This happens because if you have a main hand dagger you have 2 auras. Staff or scepter will have only 1. Nerfing elemental attunement will hurt almost all ele builds. Nerf elemental shielding will be a bigger nerf for d/d than anything else.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.
Thief only has dagger storm though. And that’s an elite and a situational one at that, I don’t think most builds use it. And mesmers have a mantra, but I don’t think many mesmers run mantras except for maybe the condition removal one. Some professions have way better access to stability.
My necro for example has her elite, her well, and when in WvW she’s traited for stability in death shroud. So much stability from just one profession.
Like I said I was not discussing if it used or not. Just saying that all classes have 1 or more sources of stab.
What is used and unused may change after the patch that adjust stability, and what ever else changes go in that patch that have not been mentioned.
To clarify, I wasn’t speaking to access to stability in general. I was referring to stability in comparison to that of the warrior or the guardian. The link provided has skills on that wiki page that literally give 1s of stability on a 50s cool down in some cases. If I had to guess, it was more of comment based on my wording, rather then to be helpful to the discussion, I am unclear how that declaration was intended to help the discussion.
The point is to prevent people to believe that not all classes can have stability. Not only guard and warrior are affected by stab changes.
Engi for example can trait elixir B to have almost same stab uptime as stand your ground.
Traited necro can have nearly perma stab if build for it. Plage and lich also give stab.
Ranger traited signet of hunt is almost a balance stance. They also can use the trait enlargmente. Rampage as one gives stab too.
Ele traited armor of earth is almost 10s stab on 60s cd + passive armor of earth when hp drops 50%. Tornado also gives stab.
Like you said what is used and unused may change. So I don’t think is a good idea to ignore stab from classes other than guard and war and say that they don’t exist.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
We are getting much more tools to customize the game camera next update. Stuff like a bigger field of view and vertical position. How do you thing that the new camera system will affect arrow carts? Will it make easier for them to hit in places that now they can’t hit because of the camera angle?
Looking foward for ACs to be more porwerful.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/get-readycamera-changes-are-coming/
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
I did not realize this but persisting ground aoe stab effects maybe the strongest version of stab for wvw so necro well of power may become very good soon. Image one of the worst stab classes will be getting a lot better at self stab and stab support.
The problem that I see is that ground target pulsing skills require you to stay inside its small are to get the effect. Normally stop moving is a bad thing to do in wvw. Look at how everyone runs stand your ground and not hallowed ground.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.
Thief only has dagger storm though. And that’s an elite and a situational one at that, I don’t think most builds use it. And mesmers have a mantra, but I don’t think many mesmers run mantras except for maybe the condition removal one. Some professions have way better access to stability.
My necro for example has her elite, her well, and when in WvW she’s traited for stability in death shroud. So much stability from just one profession.
Like I said I was not discussing if it used or not. Just saying that all classes have 1 or more sources of stab.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
When it comes to agreement, engineer has a few skills that everyone pretty much unanimously thinks is OP (Overcharged Shot, Slick Shoes, Gear Block).
The pvp specialist is right. Those skills are OP and need to be nerfed.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
That is more cc than any other celestial class. More cc than mesmer, thief and ranger. Only thing that has more cc than that is a fearmancer.
How does celestial amulet and CC define anything?
Where did I say that the amulet is defining the CC? I just compared the celestial engi with d/d ele and war which are the other 2 classes that use celestial. Pay more attention when reading.
What makes a PvP build celestial then?
Bolded part would be mesmers. Thanks and have a great day!
Why would you wanna bold something only to make an incorrect statement about it?
Anyone that plays this game knows that when people say celestial users or celestial builds it is reffering to d/d ele rifle engi and war.They are the only 3 classes that use celestial in the meta. If you are new to the game I understand your lack of knowledge about it.
Then why are you discussing a non meta build on the engineer? The true meta is Elixir S not Slick Shoes. So, I am not sure if your being intentionally hypocritical for comedic reasons or are contradicting yourself in the manner of cutting off your nose to spite your own face. Anyway, if you assume 1 single build is all that can define a “meta” build for a profession, then you probably shouldn’t come at folks so aggressively.
Point is, like it or not there are absolutely, variation and differences, that are "meta’ themselves with in the basic “meta” builds. If your adhering to only one strict build, and trying to do partial comparisons of only what is strong, while ignoring the weaknesses, then you have already exlude yourself from the real conversation.
The meta engi can use slick shoes. The only one saying false things here is you. “Mediocre condi dmg” “Mediocre direct dmg” hahahahaha.
You are the one ignoring things here. Ignoring all the strong parts and talking like if engi was a weak class.
I have not seen your math on damage comparisons. Where did you say you posted them?
When one of your pillars of complaints is a builds CC, the difference in slick shoes and Elixir S is massive. Particularly given that I can quote all of your previous post as referring to the engineer build as a singular celestial build, in this case. I am not ignoring anything actually. You are simply posting one thing, yet you appear to mean something different. Oddly enough, you approach it as if the community is at fault for not discerning the difference in what you said and what you meant.
Where did you post your math calculations to say the dmg is mediocre? You made false claims and never posted anything to support them. But when anyone post something that is common sense you requests videos, pictures. The cooldowns and durations of the skills are on the wiki. Go learn something about your own class.
Oh so now you speak for the “community”. If the player does not know the meta that is not my problem. Even metabattle has the base build there.
Well the fact that stat points are invested equally in condition damage, precision, and power, at significantly lower amount then other amulets, is very obvious. It has been broken down by myself, and several others in both engineer threads, this very sub forums.
Speaking for the community? No, not at all. Why do you assume so?
Thank you for posting that link, it absolutely supported my point. The previously posted build that was being discussed had Slick Shoes, not Elixir S, even EG makes it an entirely different play style and discussion as a whole. It is a very different discussion between the three utilities in the aspect of CC, which was one of the complaints. In professions with no weapon swap, there is a very dynamic and different discussion between the build you posted, and the one that was being discussed.
The link does not support your point at all. Swap slick shoes for elixir is a small change, a matter of personal preference, in the engi meta build. Asides from slick shoes all the other problems stay the same even running elixir S: IP +overcharged shot +gear shield. The change is not significant enough to say it completely changes the playstyle. Meta engi was op even before people started using slick shoes.
Having no weapon swap doesn’t mean less skills because normal engi has at least 2 kits. They end up havving more skills than most classes. They also have 4 profession mechanic skills (f1,f2,f3 and f4) while some classes have 1.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
This NEEDED to happen! Aegis blocks 1 hit and vanishes why should stability make players completely immune to CC? Stability is THE REASON I don’t play interrupt mesmer. “Oh just strip it” yeah, have a build that needs to boon strip before becoming effective, thats a great idea.
I am already testing builds now, when this goes live I will be having a good time!
awesome! with this patch you can just spam interrupts mindlessly and be effective!
You mean versus spamming stability to be effective now? At least with this option, those who are not guardians or warriors can be effective agains them. Every pprofession has CC. Not every profession has stability. They all have CC options though.
Actually you are wrong, every profession has at least 1 source of stability. If it is used or not is another discussion.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
As a returning player I’m glad to say I’m back! (Hot and mawdrey helped with that aspect)
anyways I noticed the new Stat combo and wonder if it has any viable use.
wvw, spvp, or Pve: Gimme the skinny.
There is no sinister amulet in spvp.
For pve condi is useless in group dungeons because the number of stacks not going higher than 25. The best dungeon engi build is similar to this:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Power_Grenadier
For wvw zerging engi is not in the meta, so any build will not be as good as a necro, ele, war or guardian.
For roaming there are options better than sinister. Try dire/rabid.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
This will hurt Solo a lot more than groups.
If the defience bar does not scale with the number of players in dungeons then bosses will be impossible to CC solo. There won’t be enough spike cc from 1 player to drain the bar and it will regen with time. I like this change because dungeons were not designed for be completed solo anyway. An example of this is cof p1 where you need 5 to activate the orbs and kill the controller.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
I would be happy if air #3 becomes a cone attack or gets a larger area.
Eruption and unsteady ground changes look good but static field change would be op.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
That is more cc than any other celestial class. More cc than mesmer, thief and ranger. Only thing that has more cc than that is a fearmancer.
How does celestial amulet and CC define anything?
Where did I say that the amulet is defining the CC? I just compared the celestial engi with d/d ele and war which are the other 2 classes that use celestial. Pay more attention when reading.
What makes a PvP build celestial then?
Bolded part would be mesmers. Thanks and have a great day!
Why would you wanna bold something only to make an incorrect statement about it?
Anyone that plays this game knows that when people say celestial users or celestial builds it is reffering to d/d ele rifle engi and war.They are the only 3 classes that use celestial in the meta. If you are new to the game I understand your lack of knowledge about it.
Then why are you discussing a non meta build on the engineer? The true meta is Elixir S not Slick Shoes. So, I am not sure if your being intentionally hypocritical for comedic reasons or are contradicting yourself in the manner of cutting off your nose to spite your own face. Anyway, if you assume 1 single build is all that can define a “meta” build for a profession, then you probably shouldn’t come at folks so aggressively.
Point is, like it or not there are absolutely, variation and differences, that are "meta’ themselves with in the basic “meta” builds. If your adhering to only one strict build, and trying to do partial comparisons of only what is strong, while ignoring the weaknesses, then you have already exlude yourself from the real conversation.
The meta engi can use slick shoes. The only one saying false things here is you. “Mediocre condi dmg” “Mediocre direct dmg” hahahahaha.
You are the one ignoring things here. Ignoring all the strong parts and talking like if engi was a weak class.
I have not seen your math on damage comparisons. Where did you say you posted them?
When one of your pillars of complaints is a builds CC, the difference in slick shoes and Elixir S is massive. Particularly given that I can quote all of your previous post as referring to the engineer build as a singular celestial build, in this case. I am not ignoring anything actually. You are simply posting one thing, yet you appear to mean something different. Oddly enough, you approach it as if the community is at fault for not discerning the difference in what you said and what you meant.
Where did you post your math calculations to say the dmg is mediocre? You made false claims and never posted anything to support them. But when anyone post something that is common sense you requests videos, pictures. The cooldowns and durations of the skills are on the wiki. Go learn something about your own class.
Oh so now you speak for the “community”. If the player does not know the meta that is not my problem. Even metabattle has the base build there.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
That is more cc than any other celestial class. More cc than mesmer, thief and ranger. Only thing that has more cc than that is a fearmancer.
How does celestial amulet and CC define anything?
Where did I say that the amulet is defining the CC? I just compared the celestial engi with d/d ele and war which are the other 2 classes that use celestial. Pay more attention when reading.
What makes a PvP build celestial then?
Bolded part would be mesmers. Thanks and have a great day!
Why would you wanna bold something only to make an incorrect statement about it?
Anyone that plays this game knows that when people say celestial users or celestial builds it is reffering to d/d ele rifle engi and war.They are the only 3 classes that use celestial in the meta. If you are new to the game I understand your lack of knowledge about it.
Then why are you discussing a non meta build on the engineer? The true meta is Elixir S not Slick Shoes. So, I am not sure if your being intentionally hypocritical for comedic reasons or are contradicting yourself in the manner of cutting off your nose to spite your own face. Anyway, if you assume 1 single build is all that can define a “meta” build for a profession, then you probably shouldn’t come at folks so aggressively.
Point is, like it or not there are absolutely, variation and differences, that are "meta’ themselves with in the basic “meta” builds. If your adhering to only one strict build, and trying to do partial comparisons of only what is strong, while ignoring the weaknesses, then you have already exlude yourself from the real conversation.
The meta engi can use slick shoes. The only one saying false things here is you. “Mediocre condi dmg” “Mediocre direct dmg” hahahahaha.
You are the one ignoring things here. Ignoring all the strong parts and talking like if engi was a weak class.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]