Guild Wars 2

Wildchild.7502:

Thats the first time I hear about big guilds of T1 transfering to the lower tier… all I see is tons of low server going into higher tier so they can have a chance to get rewards

WvW Guilds work their a** off to get a server to high ranking

Anet do something which push bandwagoning even more than usual (free transfers, Wxp, Leagues)

Swarms of bandwagoners flood the T1/2 server

Queques skyrockets

Guilds transfer down in tiers to get a less quequed wvw and start fighting hard again

Repeat.

I’d go for a middle way.

The second build looks ok but 20 pts in zeal are not worth it imo (10 have a sense, 20 for GS trait no – imo), and yes Vigorous Precision would help you a ton. 10/30/0/20/10 would be my choice based on that build.

My suggestion actually would be going deep 30 points in Vitality line (Superior Aria + Pure of Voice + good 3rd trait options like Empowering Might) and take again shouts (Syg + another, HtL or Retreat). Stick with 30 points in Radiance for RHS and damage traits.

We’re looking at a x/30/0/30/x build. Last 10 points can go either in Zeal (Fiery Wrath) or Virtues (Consacrations CD/duration).

For a fractal specific build, Virtues would be my choice (Wall of Reflection).

So:
Zerk trinkets/weapon/armor/rune
0/30(VI, X, XI)/0/30(II, VIII, XI)/10 (VI)
Shelter, SyG + Retreat(swap with something else as needed) + WoR, RF.
Sword + Focus & GS/Hammer/Scepter+Focus depending on situation.

If you feel confident dropping to 20 pts in Honor, the build before (10/30/0/20/10) is valid too. 10 points in Zeal can be handy in fractals for the Spirit Weapon trait, when needed, on top of Fiery Wrath.

People still read/reply/take seriously Daecollo’s suggestions?

Only boon duration would be kinda lackuster imo.

Boon duration on top of something else would make more sense (current Stability + this, for example).

warriorjrd.8695:

The league won’t just kill SFR and viz with transfers, it will kill any decent form of wvw remaining

You weren’t on SFR back in March Free Transfers Apocalypse.

Hickeroar.9734:

Interesting comparison… While chem’s stream might not hit 2k, it’s only 500 viewers below the ESL sPvP finals.

The only small difference is that has few unofficial announcement (here and reddit), the other all the fuss on Gw2 login and Fb (and Twitter?).

Yeah.

I know, but it’s annoying getting pointed as worse than Viz, blobbers and bads when you’ve spent months to fight that thing – and then Anet made all bandwagoners move (again).

Players on SFR since about Feb/March DO are extremely anti blobbing.

The issue is Anet that first pushed FREE transfers to SFR when it was in 1st position (god that was dumb, almost killed the server community), now with leagues the amount of ppl hopping in wvw/server is rising again, headless pvers blobbing like SFR never did.

The core community deeply despise the blobbig meta. But you can’t stop ppl to transfer (aside getting 24/7 full), and being in good place/perfomance will draw bandwagoners, it’s unavoidable.

Oh, and if you’re reading and considering transfer to SFR (not related to Koda/Deso, just to any reader) in order to leech out the “Gold meta achievement for leagues” and bandwagon for easy T1 wvw, please gtfo and stay away.
Thanks.

Consumables and Weapons stacks are fine imo (even if the latter is prolly going to be “fixed” regarding unequipping the weapon with the sigil).

Wxp boons no, cause they give advantage to veterans over new players that goes beyond experience.
Bloodlust no, cause it will just cause snowballing. Orbs proved it back in the day, it’s not even speculation.

Will those 2 be tackled? Nope.

Warriors was so bad in Spvp that now seems like it’s getting too much stuff.

Down this road will be again a “Nerf War please” s*itstorm like back in betas.

I mean, i agree that it needed a buff some months ago, but in the round of like 3 patches got improved CC, heals/sustain, EP/Zerk stance, traits redone, dmg untouched and more… and it’s still getting buffed.

Not saying it’s OP or that i dislike all this improvements, but…. “This won’t end well” [cit.]

I don’t miss the trinity.

But a soft one like GW1 – where classes were quite free, no tanks present but healers yes – could solve quite few issues.

Amins.3710:

AndrewSX.3794:

I see some steps in right direction (Meditation istant as baseline with fury on a 20 pts investiment sounds awesome), but there are still improvements needed.

I’m sorry, but the only worthwhile mediation that wasn’t instant was Smite Conditon… and even then, it’s just a timing issue and most burst builds were running Focus, which you had a 3-4s time on that anyhow….

Merciful Intervention is just HORRIBLE. It’s so unreliable you have no idea where you’re going to end up or whom you’re healing,.

The point is that: 2 out of 4 Meditations where istant, yet we had a “Meditations are istant” trait which is quite a waste. Now it will be somewhat useful, with Smite conditions for sure – depends how long fury will be, but point still stands. Especially if you consider the current amount of fury avaible to Guardian which is…umh…0. Except Fury when burning (but Torch “Set yourself on Fire” is not a real Burning and don’t trigger it, would have been more interesting), the few secs from SY! and some runes.

The 4 Meditations themselves are okish imo – they are a “selfish” playstyle, sure – except Merciful Intervention, i agree. But the main problem is that i never felt the need of using it tbh, even before thinking about how good/reliable it could be.
Smite and Purity are condition cleansing (2 different flavours of it), and Judge is a istant 1200 teleport (used manly paired with Ring of Warding in WvW), not so bad skills imo.

That said, “Steps in right direction” =/= “Guard is now perfect”.

We got few guilds trying out something like that.

Iirc, to have comments and streaming they settled down to a 9vs9, in the center node of Foefire (largest open area in Spvp prolly).

Can’t really say how good or bad it was, but the so low number and the restricted stat/build choices had quite a weight.

I have 2 Makeover kits just waiting for new hair/faces on my 2 Sylvaris.

Make it happen!

For leagues is planned another Wxp points reset.

I’d be baffled (ok, not THAT much, it’s Anet WvW team afterall) if they weren’t going trough it for balancing some Wxp stuff before the league starts.

And in that case, i assume Guard Leech + Defense will be 1st priority.

I like what i’m reading. There are steps in right direction.

That said, there are still a LOT of things that needs to be adressed, both as “general meta and balance” and particular cases of skills/traits.

There are still trait lines, skill, weapons, builds that needs love, both in terms of balance and in polish. There are still trait lines, skill, weapons, buils that could use a little tone down.

Hope that at least about balancing you’ve woken up, this is one of the few balance patches that (so far) made me think “Good”. Oh, and some heads up + QoL features sound quite nice.

Well, at least until i came across leaks stating the “Duration based Boons and Conditions now stacks up only 5 times max” and the “Blocking and Evading targets now count to the 5 man AoE cap”, which are something that will have enourmous impact on WvW, compared to Spvp. Dunno if confirmed or not tho.

Also, some balancing choices made for Spvp will be quite…meh, to say the least, for WvW, where Shout War and Staff Ele for example are already top notch meta builds for groups/zergs.

Still have to play things out, and so far seems just to be a patch strenghtening the already strong but without major nerfs (in spvp too seems).

But i guess that as usual Spvp is everything that matters when comes down to balancing…..bah.

Please don’t tell me you’re asking about pug quality related to server cause you use map chat to pug. Please.

Anyway, as said, DGs are cross server (splitted EU/NA) so it doesn’t matter.

(As far as WvW goes, only off – time people. Prime and Day Time are full, don’t transfer. We have angry bulgarians ready to yell at you until you run away scared if you do.)

I see some steps in right direction (Meditation istant as baseline with fury on a 20 pts investiment sounds awesome), but there are still improvements needed.

Yeah, feels more like the 3/6 months ago matches.

Most of the guys on SFR back in the days are still here, but there have been a ginormous amount of transfers (which most of community actualy would have preferred to avoid) so, yeah, now would be a bit more equal…if only Viz would face us in open fields instead of running in towers behind ACs or directly porting away, but that’s another story.

Is the Black Lion chest a joke?

Yes.

/12 charrs

killahmayne.9518:

And other classes aren’t easy mode? Like thieves “spamming” stealth, guardians “spamming” boons, rangers “spamming” dodge on their sword, etc. Please, if you are going to complain or suggest a change at least come in here informed about the class mechanics.

Agreed.

I mean, Anet should make a sweep of all this kind of cheesing once at same time and for everybody.

Spamming mindlessy should never be the answer, in a pvp mode at least.

LionZero.3479:

The only good fix is the stunbreaker change outside of that most just proves again how bad the balance is, buffing war/gaurd/staff ele will make wvwvw bunkerzergs even more immortal and no counterplay/tools atm for it.

As i said somewhere else:

Implying that Anet cares of anything outside Spvp when comes down to balance.

Funny that what’s gettin buffed for sake of spvp is already meta/OP in WvW.

While i think everybody agrees that template save and load (and maybe separated from pve/wvw) would be neat, i have to agree with this….

Dude, if you have a problem with 3 silver and change plus a tad bit of memorization, I don’t know what to tell you…

If only the Sword auto wasn’t such a PITA to use i’m confident the “Decent Ranger” population would skyrocket.

besaah.2516:

AndrewSX.3794:

FirstBlood.7359:

AndrewSX.3794:

2 issues.

Objective based modes are NOT a real pvp. Holding stuff =/= killing stuff. Which is one of the various reasons Spvp is failing hard, and in wvw you can see whole zergs waypoint out of towers where they’ve bunkered in to avoid fighting.

Second, at least in 20 vs. 20 you use your character, instead of an arrocart.

Tell me: How many competitive successful games use pure deathmatch? How many competitive successful games use 20 vs 20?

Not a single one. The ugly thing that calls itself GvG constructs an enviroment that renders invidividual skill irrelevant.

I didn’t said that pvp should be JUST killing things.
But a pvp mode where killing things is almost not involved is just as bad.

They’re on opposed ends of the spectrum, thus both unviable as competitive and esport scene.

And GvGs in wvw are pure DM only cause there is 0 dev or client support to player created content to do something deeper.

We really need to talk about esports? Fine, let’s look at MOBAs.
There is point objective play? Yes, turrets lanes pushing and overall goal is destroying enemy nexus.
There is required killing? Yes, both AI (jungling + waves of minions) and players.

As long as one thing is missing (WvW gvgs) or too weightened compared to the other (spvp) there is no argument.

i like how people get riled up when someone says gvg is aoespamming and then go ahead and make the same baseless claims about spvp.

let’s answer this the same way every gvg is aoespamming claim has been answerd:
you don’t even play spvp, how would you know?

Did i say “You don’t even play GvG, how would you know?”? Nope.
Did is say “GvG new esport!”? Nope.

They’re on opposed ends of the spectrum, thus both unviable as competitive and esport scene.

Sorry but i don’t see where you’re getting all the “riled up” about GvG over spvp.

I’ve just trashed both.

Terrahero.9358:

Its why we have been playing Conquest for over a year now. Becuase its just 5v5, and the action is usually taking place in 1, sometimes 2 places, to make it easier to watch.

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/9KU2V.gif

FirstBlood.7359:

AndrewSX.3794:

2 issues.

Objective based modes are NOT a real pvp. Holding stuff =/= killing stuff. Which is one of the various reasons Spvp is failing hard, and in wvw you can see whole zergs waypoint out of towers where they’ve bunkered in to avoid fighting.

Second, at least in 20 vs. 20 you use your character, instead of an arrocart.

Tell me: How many competitive successful games use pure deathmatch? How many competitive successful games use 20 vs 20?

Not a single one. The ugly thing that calls itself GvG constructs an enviroment that renders invidividual skill irrelevant.

I didn’t said that pvp should be JUST killing things.
But a pvp mode where killing things is almost not involved is just as bad.

They’re on opposed ends of the spectrum, thus both unviable as competitive and esport scene.

And GvGs in wvw are pure DM only cause there is 0 dev or client support to player created content to do something deeper.

We really need to talk about esports? Fine, let’s look at MOBAs.
There is point objective play? Yes, turrets lanes pushing and overall goal is destroying enemy nexus.
There is required killing? Yes, both AI (jungling + waves of minions) and players.

As long as one thing is missing (WvW gvgs) or too weightened compared to the other (spvp) there is no argument.

FirstBlood.7359:

Sadly, he does not understand objective based PvP. Moreover, he does not understand the problem of large scale fights in general. Fighting 20 vs. 20 removes any skill requirement left in the game.

2 issues.

Objective based modes are NOT a real pvp. Holding stuff =/= killing stuff. Which is one of the various reasons Spvp is failing hard, and in wvw you can see whole zergs waypoint out of towers where they’ve bunkered in to avoid fighting.

Second, at least in 20 vs. 20 you use your character, instead of an arrocart.

Vol.5241:

But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference.

Then having the guild GvG’ing or not shouldn’thave any impact on perfomance, right?
Or, to keep GvG out of this thread: it’s obviously false. Having a raiding guild group on the map can make a massive difference.

Vol.5241:

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

This sounds tbh like the NA view of WvW that somebody brought up few times ago in the “How WvW is seen EU vs. NA”.

And everybody knows that Anet will care only of NA T1 for the WvW stuff.

WvW is the playfield of the whole server, yes, but a server community is a banding of multiple guilds, not a shapeless number of random ppl.
At least, that’s how EU rolls – Vizuna aside.

Again, GvG is just a consequence of ridicolous design directions taken during development, never fixed YET pointed back in alpha by testers like sacrx.

PPT, Zerg and Coverage and Siege War aren’t what the Massive World PvP crowd were looking for.
The DaoC and WAR playerbase which was hoping in Gw2 to finally have the first next-gen MMO with 3 way RvR would have never submit to that. Either quitting (the amount of guilds lost due to horrible development directions, especially in first 6 months, is astonishing) or working around that. With things like GvG.

Now, again, GvG is not what the is discussion is about.
But it does have a role in the grand scheme of things – which Anet would actually be better unveil for clarity’s sake.

Sacrx points out that “Anet said that WvW in their eyes not only is meant to be causal zergfest, but actually they want hardcore to stay away from it to funnel them in the esport spvp”.
If that’s even half true, i can tell ya that more than half dedicated wvw guild (at least from my perspective, and SFR do have quite some guilds) would quit altoghether. Because spvp is crap, face it for once, and they would rather quit the game insted of playing it – especially if your tactic is “Let’s destroy GvG dumb down wvw and make it as zergy and siege based as possible to drive them away from it and force them to spvp”.

And even if wvw is a casual zergfest, without the backbone made by dedicated and expert ppl, it will crumble like a card castle.

So actually, Anet troughout this 12 months and more, considering alphas and developemnt, hampered the mode with most potential (WvW) arbitrarly deciding “It’s for causal nothign worth time or money investiment”, to favour instead the one made with esport status in mind (spvp) but so flawed to the core that after BWE1 pvpers verdict was already “It will never make it. Change up mode or gtfo”.
That’s quite sad and disheartning.

Avead.5760:

So all of you crying about conquest.If they implement dm and king of the hill will you play spvp?

KotH + DM, more build variety and better rewards…then there could be a chance.

lordkrall.7241:

WvW was never advertised to be a hardcore game mode. It has always been stated to be a casual part of the game where people can log in and do stuff when the feel like it.

As he said:

I don’t GvG and don’t follow it at all. What I thought was interesting and disturbing was how (he claims) Anet looks at the WvW game mode. I feel that should be a valid topic of discussion.

That’s the matter.

lordkrall.7241:

WvW is supposed to be WvW, not GvG, this have been stated by ArenaNet several times, and thus GvG in WvW won’t be supported.

Get out of your heads the GvG.

Listen to the vid. GvG is just the tip of the iceberg.

What Sacrx say is that every single problem of WvW that we had at launch and still now after 12 months has been reported multiple times by them more than 6 months before launch and has been ignored because in talks with Devs they said quite clearly “WvW will be extra causal has no value and we’ll take care only of Spvp cause it will be esport”. And that’s just the first thing from alpha that he unveils, because the rest of the vid goes on with that kind of news.

That is the matter.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Just because it’s not fair doesn’t mean it’s a good reason to make it even more unfair.

+1

/15charrs

Slightly reducing mantra effectiveness but giving them aoe features would totally be ok to me.

As offense Pain and Distraction affecting more targets would be huge.

As defense Concentration and Cleansing removing condies and giving stability to allies would be even greater.

So far leaks only refers to Cleansing Mantra tho.

Nikaido.3457:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

This is the most positive, heartening, lovely statement I’ve come across from a developer on these boards for quite some time. I can’t wait to see the final rework of FOTM.

Agreed.

I stopped doing Fotm long time ago for 3 reasons manly:

-time/effort spent isn’t stable. some runs takes very little effort/time (think about getting ascalon + swamp + water), some can be 3 times long and hard (dredge + colossus + grawl)
-getting dredge fractal is enough to make any fractal run a major PITA
-rewards are supbar compared to open world/regular DGs. and too RNG.

A mix of the reasons posted in OP, but manly:

It’s boring as hell.

Dub.1273:

Oh my god, i’m such a bad player. Not using a dodge hotkey, not using combat mod, not using the “optimal” warrior/guardian build, etc.

Casual/bad/pug players bashing skills makes up for that, no worries!

CC Danicia.1394:

Tellerion.8102:

Feedback, as long as it’s about butterflies, red roses and/or child birth.

Pfft. I hate all those things.

But seriously, the team does watch this thread and does keep the feedback. And we also compile particularly good constructive feedback for the team, so they don’t miss it.

Team listen and watch, but will not care anyway and go on destroying WvW.

We’ve already seen this movie more than once.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Yeah, because they can’t support a third party application. They’ve said that it is not something they will ban for.

Something they don’t ban for equals to approval for me.

See again Texmod in Gw1.

Thx btw, gonna check it out.

EchenSketch.9142:

You cannot punish a server for having a higher population than another. Even a simple speed boost does that.

This isn’t a good reason to reward it with Bloodlust tho, or do not help in a meaningful way (instead of karma/exp boosts) the outnumbered side.

Interesting that mods took their time to delete only the link to sacrx vid instead of downright close the thread as i expected.

That’s some nuclear stuff sacrx.

And, most important, sad. It just confirm every single worst fear of the hardcore wvw community.

Can’t wait to see when the infos will start to flood the rest of the forums.

OT:
At the end did Anet said anything about Combat Mode btw?
Or it’s still like TexMod for Gw1 – do at your own risk?

I was kinda interested in try that out – but cause i never seen a clear response i decided to stay safe and pass.

Because a stat based buff will destroy WvW as whole.

Orbs proved it.

If that group of ppl you’re talkign about can’t see beyond PPT, the 3 skills of a siege weapon and PvD, and already forgot the blowouts due to Orbs, that’s their problem.

lordkrall.7241:

AndrewSX.3794:

You’re forgetting that we played with a stat boost already, in first months of the game.

And itwas a disaster, snowballing every match and finally removed with the additional excuse of the “too easy to hack”.

Yes, the orbs.

And yet the main issue with the orbs was the fact that people hacked into keep and took them. Which removed half the mechanics of the orbs.

The main issue was the buff causing unbalances and snowballing, the hacking was just the nail on the coffin.

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game.

BlackBeard.2873:

Before people get too upset about the impact of this buff, why don’t we try it out for a couple of weeks. If it really does lead to snow-balling they can try something different.

You’re forgetting that we played with a stat boost already, in first months of the game.

And itwas a disaster, snowballing every match and finally removed with the additional excuse of the “too easy to hack”.

Yes, the orbs.

It still doesn’t look as a good reason to leave Outnumbered useless while supplying the Outnumbering server with Bloodlust.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you.

That’s the freaking point!

Nobody wanted stats buffs getting in the way of battles – not on enemies, but neither on themselves.
People wants more battles, better ones, less siege and coverage war, not a buff which will make the already rare clashes on open field and similar strenght nearly impossible to see.
And when there’s a open field clash between 2 groups of similar numbers and strenght, the most skilled one should walk away alive, not the one that has double the coverage and holds 9 cap points across the BLs.

Get it for once and hear your playerbase.

Inbefore “GvG QQ stop it” – that’s the enjoyability of WvW as whole that will get stomped by Bloodlust.

lordkrall.7241:

Aneu.1748:

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

So… how do you suppose a server that only zergs will be able to take and hold 3 different points at the same time without breaking up? And on top of that also defend their towers/camps/keeps?

Because having 3 scouts sitting on points and able to call out the zerg, which can be on the point in 1-3 min from anywhere in the BL, will surely break up zergs.

As far as defense goes, ppl will just ignore Bloodlust points as long as there’s something under attack, cause that’s where bag will drop. Roamers excluded ofc.